AGREED - title would be a better warning for those who consider doing this at any deep retreat ... And MANY do, against advisement. Great story by a respectable man.
Tim loves the extreme. This story is crazy. Fasting, Mushrooms, and a long term silent retreat at the same time feels like doing heavy squats supersetted with heavy deadlifts in the middle of running a marathon
I've done a couple 10-day silent Vipassana meditation retreats and, unlike you, had sublime experiences both times. Yes, the physical aspect of sitting for 14 hours is initially uncomfortable. And yes, the monkey mind goes a little crazy the first couple of days. However, by day 3 or 4 I usually found myself in such a deep state of peace that I didn't want the retreat to ever end. Of course, I didn't fast because they said you need to eat to keep your strength up (sitting for that long is HARD work!). And I didn't do mushrooms because they requested us not to alter our reality with drugs or alcohol. I didn't even practice another form of meditation that I'd been doing for years because they asked us not to. Perhaps you'll give Vipassana another try someday, and you'll follow their guidelines, and your experience will be similar to mine. That's my wish for you. Because I was abused as a child, too. And sexually assaulted as a young woman. And Vipassana helped me clear away the fear surrounding those events...and so much more.
Suggestion: take every opportunity to rest your lower back by laying down. I.e. If they let you go back to your room to meditate vs sit, go back to your and lay down. The hardest part for me was the sitting.
Hello. Am I wrong, but isn't Vipassana just breathing meditation? I had anxieties and bodily reactions a few years ago and I found Vipassana videos on UA-cam and they basically healed me. What am I missing? Why sit for 14 hours, go to retreats (aside from getting more disciplined)? Can you explain a bit more about it to me? (BTW the information to try Vipassana for my anxieties came to me in a dream... Lol.)
@@EyeOfTheTiger777 I think of it more as scanning your body with your awareness. The 10-day retreat is a "brute force" way of jump-starting the process for people who struggle, or who are unsure.
What you missed is he took magic mushrooms and not magic mushrooms but well above the recommended therapeutic dose. How ridiculous to overdose on magic mushrooms and blame meditation
The authenticity of this share is world class. No “progress” happens without honesty. Tim’s courageousness has spurred and allowed many other men to start their own healing processes. Thanks so much for your courage Tim And of course jack too. We mined more Tim and jacks! 🙏🏾💕⚡️✨❤️🙏🏾😘💕.
Addiction manifests itself in many forms and phenomena's like being addicted to progress. It's not any less significant than being addicted to opium. I wish you happiness and success
I love hearing how this all happened - here and with your friend Debbie -- and with your friend Jack who has to be the quintessential perfect person at your quinttessential moment. Everything changed after that. I love your open heart with both of them. There's SO MUCH in both of them. Thank you Tim.
I never experienced much silence on mushrooms. The silent meditation seems to have been adverted by your enthusiasm for more depth of self reflection. Interestingly you started feeling better when you asked for help. And now, you have new resources to shine light on the shadows of your childhood experience. Your efforts to make the mediation retreat specifically fruitful was perhaps the first cry for help. Jack is a sweetheart, I'd love to paint a portrait of him as a token of your appreciation.
The Vipassana retreats in SN Goenka tradition are pretty clear about no intoxicants (mushrooms) and no fasting. It’s already intense and spartan. I get endogenous DMT releases during those retreats without any “add-ons” and by following the rules. Full on Alex Grey visuals. 🤷♀️
Can you tell me more about Vipassana? I occasionally do an exercise at home (15-45 mins), sitting and focusing/observing my breath in my body, or on a particular spot like the nostrils. It is very soothing. But is there more aside of that? Body scanning maybe? I don't get why it should be intense and spartan?
I used Body Scanning as my First Foundation of Mindfulness. "Sensitive to the body; calming the body." For me this means becoming sensitive to the tension in my body via the Body Scan and relaxing that tension wherever I find it. Relaxing my face was the hardest part of all. I spent over 3 years on it and it worked exceedingly well. Here are two titles that will give you a deep dive into meditation: 1. Understanding Our Mind by Thich Nhat Hanh. If you can only have ONE book on meditation this is it. I love the concept of the 'seeds'. 2. The Mind Illuminated by Culadasa. It's a much more science-based approach and is a tough read in spots but it's worth it.
As a Trauma-informed counsellor, Meditation is an oft-advised remedial practise for emotional hygiene. I just want to thank you for all that you shared on this video. Revelation of real trench truths of Meditation.
I have done several times, I am surprised that they let you go without eating or take mushrooms. Vippassana meditation is intense enough they do request you to keep everything else more stable and no writing, reading, exercising other than stretching, have to eat the meals and no drugs other than any prescribed medication. I have experienced going back to childhood trauma my first retreat, it was the most horrific experience, night shivers, same VR experience of being there, but sitting through it gave a whole lot of clarity and actually come out the other side with a better understanding of what happened and it not being something I am scared of which I have been since elementary school. Hopefully you can give it another shot.
Yes! Thank you so much for addressing this! I "retraumatized myself" at a silent meditation retreat and discuss it whenever I can, because meditation is so often touted as a cure-all and at worst, benign. I'm curious about what Jack recommended? Or did I miss it
Psychonautics gone awry... Too much newness without any grounding. You're right that you should "Thank God" that Jack was there to save your butt! Welcome back from the edge.
So you disregarded the explicit instructions for Vipassana meditation, took a bunch of psychedelics and fasted, and had a destabilizing experience? I'm sorry you had that experience.... and it's unfortunate that given the way you're portraying this in e.g. your video title that people are likely to conflate the "silent meditation retreat" with (respectfully) your own reckless disregard for the power of the tools you were dabbling in.
Goenka Vipassana focuses mainly on Object self. Maharsi Sayadaw is a little more of a sharper saw. But if you want to 'pop the bubble', the 'Two Part Formula' (Amrita Mandala) turns the gaze directly to Subject self...the 'I' or 'me' at the centre of it all. Object self is like the leaves, subject self is the tap root [of our self-deluded mind].
Sorry you went through that. I went through something similar, but unfortunately, at the time, I didn't look for professional help. At first, I thought it was the mushrooms, but then it happened again with edibles and then again when I wasn't on anything. That got my attention. What I learned, question why you wanted to those things. I love learning how to improve my life and my mindset, and these are tools I learned that could help. To much of something good can be bad. Usually, mushrooms and cannabis they alter perception, how much it depends on how much you take, and your tolerance. What you explained sounds like anxiety, followed by a panic attack that youbstayed in for a while. That can be devastating and traumatic. We really have to be careful with what we do and things we experiment with. It can be life changing in a great way or can break you mentally. Through everything I've done,- amd it's been alot, ayahuasca, toa poision 5meo dmt, muchrooms, acid. We really don't need any of it. I hope you can share more of what you did and get into detail so other people don't go down the same path,, some don't come back the same. Hope you are ok, and if you went to a therapist, you will get back to normal, give it time.
that's why one MUST always specify WHICH kind of meditation they'e talking about ; it is one thing the basic TM and a whole another a week of fasting and silent 12 hours a day meditation retreat
For context, shortly after the retreat an appearance on Jocko Podcast 100 covering Musashi. Fascinating juxtaposition. Also curious if views on the 4hr chef have matured from learning tool to food with aesthetic value vs blue goo fuel that's effective however still blue goo.
...seems to me Tim is all about control - of his internals, of externals. It is understandable, based on his mentioning of trauma. But this focus on control and "hacking" oneself is probably a trauma response.
Wow, first, glad you're okay and thanks for sharing this. WHY did you think this is a good idea to combine ALL 3? Asking because: 1. if there's a benefit of combining meditation and shroom and or intermittent - I want to know. Does not need to be silent meditation 2. Buddhist monks say NOT to combine psychedelics and meditation. I wonder why?
@@wes555 is meditation WHILE on shrooms ok by monks? I've been told my monks that it's a no no. However, to your point they never told me that it's not okay to take shrooms in general :)
Not a lot of "Public Service" in this announcement. Person deprives body, drugs his mind, joins up for a demanding physical emotional and spiritual experience after days of no food, ingesting psychedelics, cannot sleep then has an epic and possibly dangerous meltdown. Person is then quite willing to blame meditation, and features another person who has admitted difficulty with meditation and limited deep knowledge of it. Come on, person. You can do better than this! Your platform and your audience deserve it. People listen to and follow what you do to your body and mind. Like an expert. Be accountable for that.
I've never been annoyed by anything you've ever said, I love every bit of wisdom that comes out of your mouth Tim. However, this title is very unfair and can give people the wrong impression. You overdosed on magic mushrooms and you blamed vipassana. Sorry but the reason no one else has these experiences at vipassana is because they follow the guidelines. If they knew you were going break the safety guidelines in such a dramatic way they never would have let you in - for your own safety. Sorry you had that experience though.
This isn't 'the dangers of meditation retreats', this is 'the dangers of being stupid while on meditation retreat'. I'm a fan of Tim but this is just reckless behaviour. He fasted - first mistake. Took mind-altering substances while on retreat - second mistake for two reasons. First reason is obvious, when you are already putting your mind in an extreme situation like being on retreat you don't need the 'enhancement' of psychedelics, that is just a recipe for disaster. The second reason is that by doing so you are breaking of the precepts which exist for a reason. You vow to follow the precepts at the start of the course and if you have no intention of keeping them then your mind is already in a state where you are taking the retreat seriously and that you don't have respect for the centre, the teachers, or the tradition in which you're taking part in. And that leads to the third mistake - taking the retreat lightly and having expectations. This is serious work, it's not a game, it's not a joke, and it should therefore be taken seriously. Lastly, having expectations about the course goes against the very teaching of Vipassana. Be with whatever comes up, not what you want to come up or what you think should happen. Tim dropped the ball hard on this one. All of this is not to say that people won't get into trouble on retreat, it's very possible for it to happen to someone who is following all the rules and isn't making the same mistakes. But approaching it the way Tim did drastically increases the chances of something going very wrong. He played with fire and got burned.
should be retitled: my disastrous attempt to enhance a silence retreat with psychedelics
AGREED - title would be a better warning for those who consider doing this at any deep retreat ... And MANY do, against advisement. Great story by a respectable man.
The word "meditation" brings more views
Tim loves the extreme. This story is crazy. Fasting, Mushrooms, and a long term silent retreat at the same time feels like doing heavy squats supersetted with heavy deadlifts in the middle of running a marathon
I've done a couple 10-day silent Vipassana meditation retreats and, unlike you, had sublime experiences both times. Yes, the physical aspect of sitting for 14 hours is initially uncomfortable. And yes, the monkey mind goes a little crazy the first couple of days. However, by day 3 or 4 I usually found myself in such a deep state of peace that I didn't want the retreat to ever end. Of course, I didn't fast because they said you need to eat to keep your strength up (sitting for that long is HARD work!). And I didn't do mushrooms because they requested us not to alter our reality with drugs or alcohol. I didn't even practice another form of meditation that I'd been doing for years because they asked us not to. Perhaps you'll give Vipassana another try someday, and you'll follow their guidelines, and your experience will be similar to mine. That's my wish for you. Because I was abused as a child, too. And sexually assaulted as a young woman. And Vipassana helped me clear away the fear surrounding those events...and so much more.
Suggestion: take every opportunity to rest your lower back by laying down. I.e. If they let you go back to your room to meditate vs sit, go back to your and lay down. The hardest part for me was the sitting.
Hello. Am I wrong, but isn't Vipassana just breathing meditation? I had anxieties and bodily reactions a few years ago and I found Vipassana videos on UA-cam and they basically healed me. What am I missing? Why sit for 14 hours, go to retreats (aside from getting more disciplined)? Can you explain a bit more about it to me? (BTW the information to try Vipassana for my anxieties came to me in a dream... Lol.)
You are NOT KIDDING. A recipe for disaster. Absolutely foolhardy. FFS.
@@EyeOfTheTiger777 I think of it more as scanning your body with your awareness. The 10-day retreat is a "brute force" way of jump-starting the process for people who struggle, or who are unsure.
What you missed is he took magic mushrooms and not magic mushrooms but well above the recommended therapeutic dose. How ridiculous to overdose on magic mushrooms and blame meditation
The authenticity of this share is world class. No “progress” happens without honesty. Tim’s courageousness has spurred and allowed many other men to start their own healing processes. Thanks so much for your courage Tim And of course jack too. We mined more Tim and jacks! 🙏🏾💕⚡️✨❤️🙏🏾😘💕.
Addiction manifests itself in many forms and phenomena's like being addicted to progress. It's not any less significant than being addicted to opium. I wish you happiness and success
Silence is golden. Mushrooms talk a lot…bad combination brother.
I love hearing how this all happened - here and with your friend Debbie -- and with your friend Jack who has to be the quintessential perfect person at your quinttessential moment. Everything changed after that. I love your open heart with both of them. There's SO MUCH in both of them. Thank you Tim.
I never experienced much silence on mushrooms. The silent meditation seems to have been adverted by your enthusiasm for more depth of self reflection. Interestingly you started feeling better when you asked for help. And now, you have new resources to shine light on the shadows of your childhood experience. Your efforts to make the mediation retreat specifically fruitful was perhaps the first cry for help. Jack is a sweetheart, I'd love to paint a portrait of him as a token of your appreciation.
Thank you so much for sharing such intimate details, Tim. I really appreciate your candor.
the 5th precept for good sila:
abstain from intoxication
dont try so hard ❤
Meditation is about a quiet mind, not a drugged up mind
The Vipassana retreats in SN Goenka tradition are pretty clear about no intoxicants (mushrooms) and no fasting. It’s already intense and spartan. I get endogenous DMT releases during those retreats without any “add-ons” and by following the rules. Full on Alex Grey visuals. 🤷♀️
Can you tell me more about Vipassana? I occasionally do an exercise at home (15-45 mins), sitting and focusing/observing my breath in my body, or on a particular spot like the nostrils. It is very soothing. But is there more aside of that? Body scanning maybe? I don't get why it should be intense and spartan?
I used Body Scanning as my First Foundation of Mindfulness. "Sensitive to the body; calming the body."
For me this means becoming sensitive to the tension in my body via the Body Scan and relaxing that tension wherever I find it. Relaxing my face was the hardest part of all. I spent over 3 years on it and it worked exceedingly well.
Here are two titles that will give you a deep dive into meditation:
1. Understanding Our Mind by Thich Nhat Hanh. If you can only have ONE book on meditation this is it. I love the concept of the 'seeds'.
2. The Mind Illuminated by Culadasa. It's a much more science-based approach and is a tough read in spots but it's worth it.
As a Trauma-informed counsellor, Meditation is an oft-advised remedial practise for emotional hygiene. I just want to thank you for all that you shared on this video. Revelation of real trench truths of Meditation.
I have done several times, I am surprised that they let you go without eating or take mushrooms. Vippassana meditation is intense enough they do request you to keep everything else more stable and no writing, reading, exercising other than stretching, have to eat the meals and no drugs other than any prescribed medication. I have experienced going back to childhood trauma my first retreat, it was the most horrific experience, night shivers, same VR experience of being there, but sitting through it gave a whole lot of clarity and actually come out the other side with a better understanding of what happened and it not being something I am scared of which I have been since elementary school. Hopefully you can give it another shot.
Yes! Thank you so much for addressing this! I "retraumatized myself" at a silent meditation retreat and discuss it whenever I can, because meditation is so often touted as a cure-all and at worst, benign. I'm curious about what Jack recommended? Or did I miss it
Thanx Tim
Tim's got some Focals. 🎧
Psychonautics gone awry... Too much newness without any grounding. You're right that you should "Thank God" that Jack was there to save your butt! Welcome back from the edge.
This is really interesting 😮
So you disregarded the explicit instructions for Vipassana meditation, took a bunch of psychedelics and fasted, and had a destabilizing experience?
I'm sorry you had that experience.... and it's unfortunate that given the way you're portraying this in e.g. your video title that people are likely to conflate the "silent meditation retreat" with (respectfully) your own reckless disregard for the power of the tools you were dabbling in.
Goenka Vipassana focuses mainly on Object self. Maharsi Sayadaw is a little more of a sharper saw. But if you want to 'pop the bubble', the 'Two Part Formula' (Amrita Mandala) turns the gaze directly to Subject self...the 'I' or 'me' at the centre of it all. Object self is like the leaves, subject self is the tap root [of our self-deluded mind].
Wtf are you talking about. Where can I find out more ? What books should I read ?
ribbity robbity roop
@@rickfool1452 i haven’t heard of this stuff, but I imagine if you search some of these words on YT or google, you’ll probably find your way
Is there a book or material that I could reference as “Transcendental Meditation Off the shelf”?
Nice
So what was her answer? :)
Sorry you went through that. I went through something similar, but unfortunately, at the time, I didn't look for professional help. At first, I thought it was the mushrooms, but then it happened again with edibles and then again when I wasn't on anything. That got my attention. What I learned, question why you wanted to those things. I love learning how to improve my life and my mindset, and these are tools I learned that could help. To much of something good can be bad. Usually, mushrooms and cannabis they alter perception, how much it depends on how much you take, and your tolerance. What you explained sounds like anxiety, followed by a panic attack that youbstayed in for a while. That can be devastating and traumatic. We really have to be careful with what we do and things we experiment with. It can be life changing in a great way or can break you mentally. Through everything I've done,- amd it's been alot, ayahuasca, toa poision 5meo dmt, muchrooms, acid. We really don't need any of it. I hope you can share more of what you did and get into detail so other people don't go down the same path,, some don't come back the same. Hope you are ok, and if you went to a therapist, you will get back to normal, give it time.
that's why one MUST always specify WHICH kind of meditation they'e talking about ; it is one thing the basic TM and a whole another a week of fasting and silent 12 hours a day meditation retreat
EMDR ... if you haven't checked it out please do. It is a powerful method/tool for dissolving trauma on deep levels.
It was interesting to hear about your experience and would’ve been great to hear the response. I didn’t know who you were talking to.
i guess you can check out the full length conversation linked at the end of the clip
ua-cam.com/video/WdmvoX1RZWA/v-deo.html
For context, shortly after the retreat an appearance on Jocko Podcast 100 covering Musashi. Fascinating juxtaposition. Also curious if views on the 4hr chef have matured from learning tool to food with aesthetic value vs blue goo fuel that's effective however still blue goo.
...seems to me Tim is all about control - of his internals, of externals. It is understandable, based on his mentioning of trauma. But this focus on control and "hacking" oneself is probably a trauma response.
So true I think
Why didn't you follow their instructions? Just do Vipassana - don't try to enhance with mushrooms or fasting!
Wow, first, glad you're okay and thanks for sharing this.
WHY did you think this is a good idea to combine ALL 3?
Asking because:
1. if there's a benefit of combining meditation and shroom and or intermittent - I want to know. Does not need to be silent meditation
2. Buddhist monks say NOT to combine psychedelics and meditation. I wonder why?
@@wes555 is meditation WHILE on shrooms ok by monks?
I've been told my monks that it's a no no.
However, to your point they never told me that it's not okay to take shrooms in general :)
Eres valiente de contarlo, espero estes mejor.
"You are brave to tell it, I hope you are better." (Google Translate)
@@ivanvanogre-nd1sw UA-cam lo traduce solo.
No. I did that so people could read what you said. Best wishes.
No. Lo hice para que la gente pudiera leer lo que dijiste. Los mejores deseos. (Google Translate)
Not a lot of "Public Service" in this announcement. Person deprives body, drugs his mind, joins up for a demanding physical emotional and spiritual experience after days of no food, ingesting psychedelics, cannot sleep then has an epic and possibly dangerous meltdown. Person is then quite willing to blame meditation, and features another person who has admitted difficulty with meditation and limited deep knowledge of it. Come on, person. You can do better than this! Your platform and your audience deserve it. People listen to and follow what you do to your body and mind. Like an expert. Be accountable for that.
It’s not the problem of the silence. It’s the drug.
I've never been annoyed by anything you've ever said, I love every bit of wisdom that comes out of your mouth Tim. However, this title is very unfair and can give people the wrong impression. You overdosed on magic mushrooms and you blamed vipassana. Sorry but the reason no one else has these experiences at vipassana is because they follow the guidelines. If they knew you were going break the safety guidelines in such a dramatic way they never would have let you in - for your own safety. Sorry you had that experience though.
atheist > meditation > 'spiritual' > new age mysticism > catholicism
Tim, you took psychedelics and in your title you blame meditation.
🤦♂
As an expert in nothing, I presume the cause of your traumatic event was the starvation, silent retreat and magic mushrooms.
how can u ever blame a mirror for what you see in there? :)
This isn't 'the dangers of meditation retreats', this is 'the dangers of being stupid while on meditation retreat'. I'm a fan of Tim but this is just reckless behaviour. He fasted - first mistake. Took mind-altering substances while on retreat - second mistake for two reasons. First reason is obvious, when you are already putting your mind in an extreme situation like being on retreat you don't need the 'enhancement' of psychedelics, that is just a recipe for disaster. The second reason is that by doing so you are breaking of the precepts which exist for a reason. You vow to follow the precepts at the start of the course and if you have no intention of keeping them then your mind is already in a state where you are taking the retreat seriously and that you don't have respect for the centre, the teachers, or the tradition in which you're taking part in. And that leads to the third mistake - taking the retreat lightly and having expectations. This is serious work, it's not a game, it's not a joke, and it should therefore be taken seriously. Lastly, having expectations about the course goes against the very teaching of Vipassana. Be with whatever comes up, not what you want to come up or what you think should happen. Tim dropped the ball hard on this one.
All of this is not to say that people won't get into trouble on retreat, it's very possible for it to happen to someone who is following all the rules and isn't making the same mistakes. But approaching it the way Tim did drastically increases the chances of something going very wrong. He played with fire and got burned.
I kinda thought Tim was smarter than do something like that ......guess not.
I would blame the shrooms for that agitation you were suffering through Tim. You ate too much.
You starved yourself, abused yourself, and took a bunch of drugs in solitary confinement and are surprised you had a bad time?
I know right
Get over yourself bro