Hey Shane, Thanks for the comment, Massive respect to you for your recent reply to my reply! Good luck with your fight, I hope you raise a lot of money.
Slick Medina look at his two step. doesn't seem like a rigorous excercize but when you've been doing it your whole life between every fourth word you'll build your calves up
Great stuff again and thanks. I've looked for this Nick Diaz and Mendoza article but I can't find it. I'd love to see it as Nick Diaz fights have been some of my favourites to rewatch
I myself would love to see that collaboration. The parallels between pugilism and contemporary fighting interest me--as do the parallels between both of those and Tai Chi or Wing Chun.
I've always been curious if, in that in the earliest eras of boxing, that there were no rule sets and boxing really was more of a self defense art, that, like in many martial arts where there's less of a distinction between empty hand and situations with a weapon, if the facing of the boxer with the back of the arms forward is to keep the vitals safe. In knife arts like Fillipino Arnis and Indonesian Silat there's always the assumption that the opponent has access to a blade that might be pulled out quickly and so that, rather than getting cut in such a way as to bleed out, the baseline defensive bearing is one with the inside of the wrists kept facing the body like in old time boxing. Anyway, as I said, I've always wondered. Your vids are quite enjoyable. Thanks for posting. Best, S.
The way you describe how the "chopper" is performed and applied sounds similar to a Karate "ura uchi" backhand strike: elbow forward, snapping the fist towards the face with the palm upward, with a whiplike flick of the wrist for emphasis. Pretty interesting how a strike like that would be born from necessity during a time when boxing still retained grappling rules.
I, too, appreciate this video. I've been wondering a lot lately about the virtues of punching vs. palm strikes. Peoples heads are very hard and our hand bones are weak and small. My father, a boxer, could hit much harder than his hands could take. I, a martial artist, have some of the same problem. One friend's father was a Green Beret and war vet. He said to palm strike the head and punch the body which Bas Ruten also says. Your thoughts?
Make sense, you also dont want to cut yourself on bony bits either. In Okinawan karate and elsewhere, theres a phrase "strike hard to soft and soft to hard"
Good explanations and interesting topic! We share some common striking patterns in Mantis Boxing from China. Thanks for sharing and working hard on your research!!
It's so obvious to someone like me who has studied some form of martial arts that pretty much every culture had some type of fighting style but Europeans are often not thought of in that light but there are lots of documents proving otherwise
Bare knuckle boxers used last 3 knuckles to impact and (mostly) vertical fist. I dont know from where fightTips-Shane got his info about palm striks as commonly used there. And "wing chun/karate like" guard is how it is, because theres no big gloves to cover your face. I reccomend to read Championship Fighting by Jack Dempsey, he illustrated mechanics of those punches well! BTW - this is a great channel. I personally think that mix of catch wrestling (takedowns, strong clinch, submissions and always trying to be on top) + scientific boxing (non telegraphic punches, aiming with 3 last knuckles, broken rhythm) + kicks + muay thai clinch is best thing you can do if you want be best mma fighter. Im glad two most important things are european, it makes me proud :) Hopefully people gonna learn more about both, catch and old school pugilism. Just imagine fusion of Khabib and Conor to see what I mean.
Both hands up, 1 leading, the other covering the center, elbows in, straight punches with vertical fists..... Love it. Very WC. Even saw a bong sau thrown in there. :)
When Shane from FightTIPS said they used palm strikes I jumped on the idea as must have been true. But at least I didn't tell anyone so I have to go off and correct myself.
this was nice video. Could you add your sources and recommended reading to the notes. Have you talked more about collaboration at all or sharing more info? I know things are busy right now but thanks.
I couldn’t see from your video what knuckles the first boxers used? Would you mind let me know? I practice traditional Chinese martial arts with elbow in punches with striking using midle/ring/pinky knuckles. Would be interesting to compare.
ive seen an irish barenuckle boxer explain how he usually hit with the bones of the forearms in a cutting motion... does a strike like that exist on clasical pugilism? he said it was like missing with the fist to slash with the arm or somethimg like that...
so much similarities to more practical kung fu. the basic concept, foot work, guards etc. the problem with the kung fu culture is that people only do it for spirituality purposes. with forms, dances, rituals etc.
When you talk about the contracted arm straight strikes were those the basis of later flipping the elbow upward and configuring the hook punches and the uppercut punches? Also were the opposite extended arm configurational strkes the basis of military combative strikes like the axhand as employed by Captain Fairbairn who later instructed WWII Allied military personnel and operatives???
I didn't catch the name of the author at 8:58, but the quote is not in the context of grappling. I managed to find the book here ("The Art and Practice of English Boxing" - couldn't find any Thomas associated with it): books.google.no/books?id=_5c5WV49VYIC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=straight+blows+centre+of+power&source=bl&ots=FEs98_rL3u&sig=F5JNAwg8j6KDBPb6ZT9aNooO7F4&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih8ae2z7fQAhVBsiwKHSkeBs0Q6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=straight%20blows%20centre%20of%20power&f=false And the quote is as follows: _"Straight blows are preferable to all others; they are stronger because they come directly from the centre of power; and quicker, because they describe less space in the attainment of the object; it therefore follows, that it is more difficult to parry them than any others. Round striking is now universally exploded; it is condemned by the same reasons which recommend straight blows, for it is directly contrary to them."_ Notwithstanding the fact that the author is simply wrong about straight blows being stronger, his primary concern does not seem to be grappling - which he does not mention here. However, the same book deals with grappling later on, which would have been more appropriate to bring up in that particular context.
I subbed I don't know why. I'm used to cookery channels. Maybe it's because my dad had a special punch (which he refused to teach me, much to my annoyance) his punch was devastating. And so fast. Can only work bare knuckle. Anyway, interesting stuff, I'll stay tuned ......
Hello, I knew your channel for a while but wasn't subscribed because, I apologise beforehand for my honesty, I didn't find your manner of speaking very interesting (after all I watch yt mostly for entertainment and information). I changed my mind after watching your videos of fight breakdows or the series about historical pugilists. I really enjoy your latest videos. Keep up the good work and best wishes!
No need to apologise. For a long time the only real reason I made videos was to provide information on what I did. I have since tried to make the channel more entertaining to watch I'm glad it's working!
The more I see the more I'm seriously starting to suspect that southern styles of kung fu, especially Wing Chun and related styles, were influenced by British boxers. Wing Chun has vastly more in common with this historical boxing from England than it does with northern longfist styles, which were mostly a kicking, grappling and weapon art. For obvious reasons, the creators of Wing Chun would claim that their style originated with some mythical monk rather than admit a foreign influence. This reminds me of how the kicks of modern/Japanese karate are actually derived from savate, not Okinawan karate.
mcpartridgeboy I’m no expert, but I believe kicking was known and potentially legal in the early days of pugilism. It was however frowned on and discouraged in England. Possibly the French being so into it had something to do with this. There seems to have been a perception that real English men fight with their fists, not their feet. What was common was so called purring, which is kind of kicking and scraping at your opponents shins, and a wide repertoire of trips etc.. not too dissimilar to the stuff you see judokas doing these days. I’m not sure when these things were phased out but I think it was late enough.
They still have official bareknuckle bouts, even these days , among the Paavi, or Irish Traveller community, where there are no rules whatsoever.. ( eg: biting, gouging, groin-strikes --- ALL allowed..) They agree to have either "a clean go", or "a dirty go", as the official terms,( though, in most cases, the occasions which call for " a dirty go" pretty much solely come down to cases of the absolute utmost hatred, and serious cause for offence, cause,)In those fights ( ie: "dirty go"), they basically attempt to eat each others face off, and generally one or both fighters end up badly injured indeed, and with serious permanent marks and often disfigurement therefrom,( again, for one or Both fighters....)...Fuck!!..Even their "clean gos" are fkn Hectic As...!!!!!....
Sean O'Brieon I thought the travellers had quite a lot of rules. The impression I got was it was a bare knuckle boxing march. No grappling or clinching. No kicking kneeing head butting etc. No rounds or time limit. Basically punching until someone gives up or passes out.
How do classical pugilists defend grappling? How does it compare in body mechanics with Eastern arts like Wing Chun? Did pugilists do sticky hands? Any real research on comparitive arts?
im very distracted with him switching from orthodox to southpaw every 5 seconds.. but good response video all in all. i like how you broke down the fact that it wasnt a single stance but more of a fighting style..
Sir, The first stance you demonstrated has terrible balance. I suppose it would be OK against some one using the same stance, as Mr. Easton pointed out that a small sword will handle any duel in which your opponent also uses a small sword. You could quite literally just "rush" someone down. The second stance you demonstrated was very good. At about eight and a half minutes into this video you demonstrated my stance very well, it was the one you said would be very weak against grapples. I suppose that it would, except you could land about three fast straight punches as they closed, or a couple of really good elbow smashes if that is your pleasure. I didn't have to worry about grapples that much, nothing like an expert in it. Thank-you, Dante.
I too strongly dislike the first of the three early stances, I dislike anything that linear when there is even the slightest chance my opponent will close to either in-fighting range or to grapple. But it is commonly seen so I keep trying it as I'm convinced there must be SOMETHING positive about it! I wouldn't say rotating the hands as I showed in the more modern version of the stance would make it very weak against grappling, just a bit weaker than not doing so. It certainly makes it easier to strike from, so based on when you were fighting I'd say it was probably the very best choice for you. The other thing to bear in mind is the fact that it worked well for you doesn't mean it is the best option, it might simply mean you were extremely good. I've met one or two amazing fighters who took things that other people couldn't make work and did them to great effect.
As a practitioner of traditional Chinese martial arts, which thanks to you I have learned actually have more similarities to pugilism than differences, I would say that the early stance is probably less static than the position shown or described. I suggest this because in my style we have many stances that when taught or shown appear vulnerable or unstable, but when applied in motion or with other techniques are quite effective. Of course, you are more educated than me on the subject, so if my ideas here are wrong or silly I do apologize.
Hello henry, I know practically nothing about Muay Thai, but I've some knoledge of boxing. If this stance were used against me in my boxing days I would rush the guy onto his back leg (he will be greatly hampered as his weight is already there, so he will not be able to maneuver well), and land a relativity light angled punch that would knock him down. No it most likely would not injure him, but as long as chooses to remain in this position I could repeat it again and again. He would be able to mount no effective offense, and I would continue to rack up points. This is a sporting event, not a combat situation, and yes we were not supposed to kick each other really. Point is, balance with all of your weight on one leg, either leg, is a bad idea in a boxing match. Thank-you, Dante.
henry, I suppose that everything you say is correct, I cannot speak with confidence outside my experience. However, I would state that any stance that causes me to be "at the ready" off balance is inherently weak, and when an opponent realises the weakness of my stance I will most likely wish I'd practiced a more orthodox stance that allowed me: 1. a defense that cannot be easily exploited, and 2. a stance that did not allow my opponent to "confuse" any offense that I might be able to mount, and 3. a stance that allows me flexibility enough to adapt to unexpected or unorthodox attacks. If you will notice most modern martial arts have a very similar stance, this is not without reason. The only real martial art I have any real experience with, besides modern boxing is SOC.P. which i did receive some instruction in while in the military, and it is a combat art, not a sporting competition. The rules of bad balance vs good balance would be very evident here. With SOC.P. a gentleman in this exaggerated, off balance stance would not last very long. I must state, however your knoledge of older days, or classical pugilism have to be better than mine. My only concern in this matter is "how we train is how we fight". I would have no interest in learning any form of combat that puts me in a weak stance at the start. It has been my pleasure to have this discussion with you, and if you wish to comment further, I will be only too happy to "hear" from you. Good day, sir. Dante.
Other than the 4500 miles, the global pandemic, the fact he's half my age, and that I struggle to do anything more strenuous than a gentle stroll without falling over you mean?
@@EnglishMartialArts Exactly! Come on - where there's a will, there's a way - none of that negative self-talk, now - you're made of sterner stuff than that! Remember: 'When England calls', etc. (You've already given me the key bit of dialogue for the movie script - now I just need the rest - don't let me down! As John Lennon said.)
The_ Joker bareknuckle boxing was english. Hell the first boxer in history was james figg who was an englishman and the first boxing fight was condicted in britain. Irishmen knew how to punch nd fight but they were not boxing and did not devolve into what would become boxing. Though i do praise them for adopting the english sport and creating champions like Jim Sullivan and Bob Firzimmons.
That sarcasm went over your head..... Who said anything about bare knuckle boxing......LOL Try again..... Olympiad, 688 BC for starters. British invented oxygen too I suppose. Nice try.
Just seeing this video, sir -- bravo! Thank you very much for the reply video and for sharing your knowledge 🙏🙏🙏
Hey Shane, Thanks for the comment, Massive respect to you for your recent reply to my reply! Good luck with your fight, I hope you raise a lot of money.
Hey please colaborate guys!
Bare knucle technikes are being uzed in mma, as the 10\12 onz gloves arent uzed ... Please guys i want to learn more .
Excellent videos, fellas!
Palm strikes are actually existent in many Irish bareknuckle boxing back then.
www.livestrong.com/article/423429-irish-bare-knuckle-boxing-techniques/
@@godzilladude1231 that article doesn't cite any historical sources tho
Are we just not gonna talk about how MASSIVE this dude's calves are?
Been a major talking point for years, even did a vid specifically on them!
like paddles
Slick Medina look at his two step. doesn't seem like a rigorous excercize but when you've been doing it your whole life between every fourth word you'll build your calves up
Never mind the size of his calves, what about his hands - shovels!! Lol😁
@@EnglishMartialArts Hmmm, mine are even a bit larger, although not as defined. Maybe it's a Popeye sort of thing.
someone didn't skip leg day
Your calves are JACKED, nice vid as well, subbed
Just found this channel, well done...for the record, FightTips Shane seems awesome. No WAY he got offended.
I WAS HOPING FOR THIS REPLY VIDEO!
Very happy to oblige!
This history of English fighting styles is fascinating. I had no idea that the stances served such a logical purpose!
Great stuff again and thanks. I've looked for this Nick Diaz and Mendoza article but I can't find it. I'd love to see it as Nick Diaz fights have been some of my favourites to rewatch
I think it's this one but it's been a while... www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/1/30/7885703/pugilistica-the-diaz-brothers-the-sweet-science-of-bruising
Alright sir. You've gone and done it. Now I have to subscribe and watch all of your videos!
Great content, seriously. Keep it up :).
The first move in the second degree black belt in Wu Shu Kwan is that palm up punch to the jaw.
Knowing just a little about "rough and tumble" makes that look he gives priceless.
I myself would love to see that collaboration. The parallels between pugilism and contemporary fighting interest me--as do the parallels between both of those and Tai Chi or Wing Chun.
Great video brother!!!! Love your boxing knowledge very insightful and great way of explaining the different styles and eras.
I've always been curious if, in that in the earliest eras of boxing, that there were no rule sets and boxing really was more of a self defense art, that, like in many martial arts where there's less of a distinction between empty hand and situations with a weapon, if the facing of the boxer with the back of the arms forward is to keep the vitals safe. In knife arts like Fillipino Arnis and Indonesian Silat there's always the assumption that the opponent has access to a blade that might be pulled out quickly and so that, rather than getting cut in such a way as to bleed out, the baseline defensive bearing is one with the inside of the wrists kept facing the body like in old time boxing. Anyway, as I said, I've always wondered. Your vids are quite enjoyable. Thanks for posting. Best, S.
The way you describe how the "chopper" is performed and applied sounds similar to a Karate "ura uchi" backhand strike: elbow forward, snapping the fist towards the face with the palm upward, with a whiplike flick of the wrist for emphasis. Pretty interesting how a strike like that would be born from necessity during a time when boxing still retained grappling rules.
I, too, appreciate this video. I've been wondering a lot lately about the virtues of punching vs. palm strikes. Peoples heads are very hard and our hand bones are weak and small. My father, a boxer, could hit much harder than his hands could take. I, a martial artist, have some of the same problem. One friend's father was a Green Beret and war vet. He said to palm strike the head and punch the body which Bas Ruten also says. Your thoughts?
Make sense, you also dont want to cut yourself on bony bits either. In Okinawan karate and elsewhere, theres a phrase "strike hard to soft and soft to hard"
Old post but I can help.
Whip your knuckles into them, don’t try to crush into them, just slap them hard with your knuckle bones.
I wonder how much of that classic backweighted stance was influenced by the similar backweighted rapier/smallsword stance of the preceding time.
great history lesson, thank you, sometimes I wonder how well I would do in a boxing match if teleported with a time machine to 1850
Good explanations and interesting topic! We share some common striking patterns in Mantis Boxing from China. Thanks for sharing and working hard on your research!!
It's so obvious to someone like me who has studied some form of martial arts that pretty much every culture had some type of fighting style but Europeans are often not thought of in that light but there are lots of documents proving otherwise
Bare knuckle boxers used last 3 knuckles to impact and (mostly) vertical fist. I dont know from where fightTips-Shane got his info about palm striks as commonly used there. And "wing chun/karate like" guard is how it is, because theres no big gloves to cover your face. I reccomend to read Championship Fighting by Jack Dempsey, he illustrated mechanics of those punches well! BTW - this is a great channel. I personally think that mix of catch wrestling (takedowns, strong clinch, submissions and always trying to be on top) + scientific boxing (non telegraphic punches, aiming with 3 last knuckles, broken rhythm) + kicks + muay thai clinch is best thing you can do if you want be best mma fighter. Im glad two most important things are european, it makes me proud :) Hopefully people gonna learn more about both, catch and old school pugilism. Just imagine fusion of Khabib and Conor to see what I mean.
Woah massive calves
Both hands up, 1 leading, the other covering the center, elbows in, straight punches with vertical fists..... Love it. Very WC. Even saw a bong sau thrown in there. :)
When Shane from FightTIPS said they used palm strikes I jumped on the idea as must have been true. But at least I didn't tell anyone so I have to go off and correct myself.
can't lie bro
i'm not a tattoo guy but that shoulder piece looks awesome
Thanks, it's a work in progress.
Man I wish you could go on the Joe Rogan Experience and put to bed all these myths and questions
this was nice video. Could you add your sources and recommended reading to the notes. Have you talked more about collaboration at all or sharing more info? I know things are busy right now but thanks.
Really good video glad to see someone put shane straight
You should get a collar-clip mic for this kind of space...
I couldn’t see from your video what knuckles the first boxers used? Would you mind let me know? I practice traditional Chinese martial arts with elbow in punches with striking using midle/ring/pinky knuckles. Would be interesting to compare.
I think a key is in the name as far as the idea of open hand striking is concerned - bare "knuckle" boxing
i cant find the book can someone send me a link please im very interested
ive seen an irish barenuckle boxer explain how he usually hit with the bones of the forearms in a cutting motion... does a strike like that exist on clasical pugilism? he said it was like missing with the fist to slash with the arm or somethimg like that...
This channel is the business!
Thank you!
so much similarities to more practical kung fu. the basic concept, foot work, guards etc. the problem with the kung fu culture is that people only do it for spirituality purposes. with forms, dances, rituals etc.
have you noticed McGregor use this stance? And in which fight?
When you talk about the contracted arm straight strikes were those the basis of later flipping the elbow upward and configuring the hook punches and the uppercut punches?
Also were the opposite extended arm configurational strkes the basis of military combative strikes like the axhand as employed by Captain Fairbairn who later instructed WWII Allied military personnel and operatives???
can you make a video of you demonstrating the techniques please
I didn't catch the name of the author at 8:58, but the quote is not in the context of grappling. I managed to find the book here ("The Art and Practice of English Boxing" - couldn't find any Thomas associated with it):
books.google.no/books?id=_5c5WV49VYIC&pg=PA19&lpg=PA19&dq=straight+blows+centre+of+power&source=bl&ots=FEs98_rL3u&sig=F5JNAwg8j6KDBPb6ZT9aNooO7F4&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih8ae2z7fQAhVBsiwKHSkeBs0Q6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=straight%20blows%20centre%20of%20power&f=false
And the quote is as follows:
_"Straight blows are preferable to all others; they are stronger because they come directly from the centre of power; and quicker, because they describe less space in the attainment of the object; it therefore follows, that it is more difficult to parry them than any others. Round striking is now universally exploded; it is condemned by the same reasons which recommend straight blows, for it is directly contrary to them."_
Notwithstanding the fact that the author is simply wrong about straight blows being stronger, his primary concern does not seem to be grappling - which he does not mention here. However, the same book deals with grappling later on, which would have been more appropriate to bring up in that particular context.
Thanks Martin
.......
Mans got beaver tails for calves
I subbed I don't know why. I'm used to cookery channels. Maybe it's because my dad had a special punch (which he refused to teach me, much to my annoyance) his punch was devastating. And so fast. Can only work bare knuckle. Anyway, interesting stuff, I'll stay tuned ......
Thanks for the sub!
Hello, I knew your channel for a while but wasn't subscribed because, I apologise beforehand for my honesty, I didn't find your manner of speaking very interesting (after all I watch yt mostly for entertainment and information). I changed my mind after watching your videos of fight breakdows or the series about historical pugilists. I really enjoy your latest videos. Keep up the good work and best wishes!
No need to apologise. For a long time the only real reason I made videos was to provide information on what I did. I have since tried to make the channel more entertaining to watch I'm glad it's working!
@@EnglishMartialArtscan this work in real fights
It's crazy how similar this is to Wing Chun
The more I see the more I'm seriously starting to suspect that southern styles of kung fu, especially Wing Chun and related styles, were influenced by British boxers. Wing Chun has vastly more in common with this historical boxing from England than it does with northern longfist styles, which were mostly a kicking, grappling and weapon art. For obvious reasons, the creators of Wing Chun would claim that their style originated with some mythical monk rather than admit a foreign influence. This reminds me of how the kicks of modern/Japanese karate are actually derived from savate, not Okinawan karate.
It's hard not to see a connection that's for sure.
Check out the guys calf’s, they’re massive!
That "chopper" is a rolling backlfist
How does Southeast martial arts influenced western boxing stance?
interesting video , on the very first era were anything goes did anyone ever kick people and if so did those kicks differ from the eastern arts ?
mcpartridgeboy I’m no expert, but I believe kicking was known and potentially legal in the early days of pugilism. It was however frowned on and discouraged in England. Possibly the French being so into it had something to do with this. There seems to have been a perception that real English men fight with their fists, not their feet.
What was common was so called purring, which is kind of kicking and scraping at your opponents shins, and a wide repertoire of trips etc.. not too dissimilar to the stuff you see judokas doing these days.
I’m not sure when these things were phased out but I think it was late enough.
nice, i wonder if anyone did a flying 360 head kick or anything, i sure hope so !
What's the name you say at 9:50? Blas Rockman?
Bas Rutten.
having come from sport fencing, Humphries guard looks a lot like tierce without a sword to me
They still have official bareknuckle bouts, even these days , among the Paavi, or Irish Traveller community, where there are no rules whatsoever.. ( eg: biting, gouging, groin-strikes --- ALL allowed..)
They agree to have either "a clean go", or "a dirty go", as the official terms,( though, in most cases, the occasions which call for " a dirty go" pretty much solely come down to cases of the absolute utmost hatred, and serious cause for offence, cause,)In those fights ( ie: "dirty go"), they basically attempt to eat each others face off, and generally one or both fighters end up badly injured indeed, and with serious permanent marks and often disfigurement therefrom,( again, for one or Both fighters....)...Fuck!!..Even their "clean gos" are fkn Hectic As...!!!!!....
Sean O'Brieon I thought the travellers had quite a lot of rules. The impression I got was it was a bare knuckle boxing march. No grappling or clinching. No kicking kneeing head butting etc. No rounds or time limit. Basically punching until someone gives up or passes out.
@@eldricgrubbidge6465 dats wen the av a fair go.if the agree to av a dirty go anything goes .must of dem av a go with 2 fair men/refs
Can someone tell me the name of the book he recommends? I can´t get the name from the video
where can i get that book you are quoting?
maybe palm strikes would be used if and when the knuckles got too damaged to continue to be use to strike with
How do classical pugilists defend grappling? How does it compare in body mechanics with Eastern arts like Wing Chun? Did pugilists do sticky hands? Any real research on comparitive arts?
LOOK and the CALVES on you man!
Have u seen Carl cestaris bareknuckle instructional? Is that more accurate?
Brilliant video mate
Thanks, very informative, but the echo sucks.
im very distracted with him switching from orthodox to southpaw every 5 seconds.. but good response video all in all. i like how you broke down the fact that it wasnt a single stance but more of a fighting style..
Sir, The first stance you demonstrated has terrible balance. I suppose it would be OK against some one using the same stance, as Mr. Easton pointed out that a small sword will handle any duel in which your opponent also uses a small sword. You could quite literally just "rush" someone down. The second stance you demonstrated was very good. At about eight and a half minutes into this video you demonstrated my stance very well, it was the one you said would be very weak against grapples. I suppose that it would, except you could land about three fast straight punches as they closed, or a couple of really good elbow smashes if that is your pleasure. I didn't have to worry about grapples that much, nothing like an expert in it. Thank-you, Dante.
I too strongly dislike the first of the three early stances, I dislike anything that linear when there is even the slightest chance my opponent will close to either in-fighting range or to grapple. But it is commonly seen so I keep trying it as I'm convinced there must be SOMETHING positive about it!
I wouldn't say rotating the hands as I showed in the more modern version of the stance would make it very weak against grappling, just a bit weaker than not doing so. It certainly makes it easier to strike from, so based on when you were fighting I'd say it was probably the very best choice for you.
The other thing to bear in mind is the fact that it worked well for you doesn't mean it is the best option, it might simply mean you were extremely good. I've met one or two amazing fighters who took things that other people couldn't make work and did them to great effect.
As a practitioner of traditional Chinese martial arts, which thanks to you I have learned actually have more similarities to pugilism than differences, I would say that the early stance is probably less static than the position shown or described. I suggest this because in my style we have many stances that when taught or shown appear vulnerable or unstable, but when applied in motion or with other techniques are quite effective. Of course, you are more educated than me on the subject, so if my ideas here are wrong or silly I do apologize.
Hello henry, I know practically nothing about Muay Thai, but I've some knoledge of boxing. If this stance were used against me in my boxing days I would rush the guy onto his back leg (he will be greatly hampered as his weight is already there, so he will not be able to maneuver well), and land a relativity light angled punch that would knock him down. No it most likely would not injure him, but as long as chooses to remain in this position I could repeat it again and again. He would be able to mount no effective offense, and I would continue to rack up points. This is a sporting event, not a combat situation, and yes we were not supposed to kick each other really. Point is, balance with all of your weight on one leg, either leg, is a bad idea in a boxing match. Thank-you, Dante.
henry, I suppose that everything you say is correct, I cannot speak with confidence outside my experience. However, I would state that any stance that causes me to be "at the ready" off balance is inherently weak, and when an opponent realises the weakness of my stance I will most likely wish I'd practiced a more orthodox stance that allowed me: 1. a defense that cannot be easily exploited, and 2. a stance that did not allow my opponent to "confuse" any offense that I might be able to mount, and 3. a stance that allows me flexibility enough to adapt to unexpected or unorthodox attacks. If you will notice most modern martial arts have a very similar stance, this is not without reason. The only real martial art I have any real experience with, besides modern boxing is SOC.P. which i did receive some instruction in while in the military, and it is a combat art, not a sporting competition. The rules of bad balance vs good balance would be very evident here. With SOC.P. a gentleman in this exaggerated, off balance stance would not last very long. I must state, however your knoledge of older days, or classical pugilism have to be better than mine. My only concern in this matter is "how we train is how we fight". I would have no interest in learning any form of combat that puts me in a weak stance at the start. It has been my pleasure to have this discussion with you, and if you wish to comment further, I will be only too happy to "hear" from you. Good day, sir. Dante.
Apples and oranges, yes sir, I think you are correct. Thank-you, Dante.
Great stuff!!! :)
Excellent video !
"It's much harder to grapple against someone who's doing that." 8:18 --- Why?
While in a clinch having the underhook(arms inside) is usually better so having the elbows in makes that much harder to get
When this dude aint boxing hes doin calf raises..
All genetic my friend. I can do crazy calf raises, but I rarely do.
It's interesting seeing the similarities to japanese taijutsu I'm seeing here. They call it ichimonji
Great vid
Thank you for this vid
Tumors on his calves. DAMN!!
Didn't they use uppercuts either?
James Sarvan they did utilize long uppercuts which is a combo of a straight and an uppercut
Can you imagine bas rutten fighting broughton under broughtons rules
Nice but lacks exploration and explanation "why palms up"?
It has his reasons.
Cheers
Dude, Bad Ass thanks ....
Oz is dancing ib the video as he speaks lol
Oz, Some weird responses to your video !
Calves day everyday.
Hey, why don't you and that other guy slug it out?
Other than the 4500 miles, the global pandemic, the fact he's half my age, and that I struggle to do anything more strenuous than a gentle stroll without falling over you mean?
@@EnglishMartialArts Exactly! Come on - where there's a will, there's a way - none of that negative self-talk, now - you're made of sterner stuff than that! Remember: 'When England calls', etc. (You've already given me the key bit of dialogue for the movie script - now I just need the rest - don't let me down! As John Lennon said.)
This all sounds like Wing Chun. Crazy. Is wing Chun not just Hong Kong people taking over western boxing?
That's certainly a theory I've heard several times. Well worth researching I think.
Ah so you HAVE heard of Bas,
excellent, I was getting worried :P
Captions here are hilarious
God they really are!
I may have to screen cap some of the best.
Freakiest calf genetics Ive ever seen.
Am I the only one concerned about him wearing socks
Didn't have my wrestling boots with me and I don't step on the mats in any other type of shoe.
I came here looking for something like that. Did that squinty geek fuck up?
CarnalKid let's keep it polite please.
EnglishMartialArts Well, you're no fun at all.
Lol! When I've got 100k subscribers and drive a nice new car we can start insulting people...
EnglishMartialArts You have yourself a deal!
Bro your calves look massive
They are.
@@EnglishMartialArts nicely done
Don’t say it was English!! 🇮🇪
The_ Joker bareknuckle boxing was english. Hell the first boxer in history was james figg who was an englishman and the first boxing fight was condicted in britain.
Irishmen knew how to punch nd fight but they were not boxing and did not devolve into what would become boxing. Though i do praise them for adopting the english sport and creating champions like Jim Sullivan and Bob Firzimmons.
That sarcasm went over your head.....
Who said anything about bare knuckle boxing......LOL Try again..... Olympiad, 688 BC for starters. British invented oxygen too I suppose.
Nice try.
The_ Joker yeah because it seems greeks and ancient britons were already friends back then lol. Stupid.
John Constantine Go do Some researcher little girl.
The_ Joker “research” not “researcher” dumbass.