Good Game Design - Paper Mario: The Origami King
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Paper Mario is back! Let's talk about the new combat system of Origami King and how it still felt like the classics we know and love while using drastically different building blocks to get there.
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I love that you get on a ship with two world famous sea captains and they are completely unaware of all the islands just outside of town.
To be fair, one of them is VERY old
BSG- Jay I'm willing to concede that plate tectonics in the mushroom kingdom may be a bit different than what were used to.
lol
I mean, Luigi been able to get a key inside a chest that was part of an island.
We found that same chest in the bottom of the ocean from a fallen part of the island.
I know Luigi is the best, especialy at finding keys, but theres no way that part of island was at the bottom of the sea when he got that, especialy since it was sealed down there.
I see it as this order: The island was full when Luigi went there, he got the key, the island collapsed, we went there, refull the island, and we get litteraly trolled by Luigi.
So I guess in this world island change pretty quickly and everything, I guess??
What im not forgiving is i Saved an old style sea captain for his sea chart and he basicly gives me an empty map!!! I would had pick an empty blue paper sheet with lines on it and it would had been the same XD Either he's awfull at finding island, even if fallen or differant, or, he's just legend and rumors!
I love how all of chapter 4 is one big windwaker reference.
DUDE... The music in this game was the craziest part for me. Every boss theme absolutely blew me away! Awesome video! I just finished the game 100% and your vid let me relive a bit of the good times! Rock on! :D
Three words: Thrills. At. Night.
@@DeMerdeEncule *IT'S GROOVY!*
For me, soundtracks have always been the most consistently good aspect, not just of Paper Mario, but of Mario games as a whole. You'd be hard pressed to find a Mario game that doesn't have at least a few good tracks in it, and even Sticker Star had some good tunes in it (sup Boo Night Fever), probably one of the few redeeming qualities of that game.
Origami King, though... I would rate its soundtrack on the same tier as TTYD and Super, it's all good.
four words. Royal. Snif. Hotel. Pool.
Sorry to be off topic but does someone know a trick to log back into an Instagram account..?
I somehow lost the password. I would love any help you can offer me!
On another note, I've seen a bunch of people describe how they're upset that Nintendo is focusing on the "Paper" aspect to create all sorts of gimmicks and stuff, and at first I agreed.
After playing the game and beating it, though, I noticed that I actually really liked a lot of the clever paper-themed ideas they came up with, and none of my problems with the game had anything to do with how they focused more on creating a paper-y adventure.
I thought the confetti was entertaining to use, and patching the world back together was satisfying! The use origami-ified enemies to unite all the paper guys was fun, and the paper macho enemies were cool as well! Even if they weren't as creative as I would have liked, the arts and crafts bosses were challenging to fight and satisfying to beat. Seeing the paper family cutout enemies before the scissors boss blew my mind, and I wish they had more enemies like that, where they're thematically appropriate AND a surprise twist on the mechanics!
So yeah, if there was one problem with this game from the very start, it was NOT the focus on paper.
It’s because the paper theme itself was never the problem, it was the fact that Sticker Star and Color Splash didn’t have an actual story, so it was entirely focused on the paper themes.
This game has an actual plot, progression, stakes that the origami theme compliments it very well
no. the first two (third is up for dispute) games have actual replay value. there is no replay value in any of the modern titles.
I'm replaying 64, and it's full of paper gimmicks. Like the houses all being shoeboxes that fold away as you enter and mario floating to safety after crashing.
garfreeek key differences: the game didn’t revolve around paper gimmix and there was depth of gameplay
@@paradoxica424 Yhea I get what you're saying, it was more about aesthetic than gameplay. I just think it evolved from day 1. I personally think that's just really funny. But I see why people would be annoyed by it!
(I still think genetic characters and a mediocre battle system is the main problem.. )
Just finished the game yesterday. And as a die hard fan of how the series once was, I had a really enjoyable time with it.
I wish I could have enjoyed it like so many of you in this comments section seem to have. For me it was more like a gut punch every few seconds.
@@Cerebrum123 exactly. it might have been an enjoyable experience if they didnt slap the paper mario trademark on it, but like this i couldn't enjoy it a single bit :(
I’m still in Graffiti Underground
I know right? It’s about damn time that we got a really good paper Mario game.
@@Yisrael_Teshuvah Bug Fables is that game
I had low expectations going into this game, but I was pleasantly surprised about how good it was. DO IT FOR BOBBY
#ForBobby
The truest bom-omb to ever come out of modern paper mario.
@William Ovington I had Steven Universe song in head-
It makes me sad how much of the Paper Mario fanbase has already wrote this game off. I just hit the Scorching Sandpaper Desert and I'm really enjoying my time with the game. It's definitely better than Color Splash (the only other Paper Mario I've played), no doubt. The soundtrack is outstanding!
With that said, Bug Fables is an excellent game in my book even if you haven't tried a classic Paper Mario.
"Better than Color Splash" isn't the high praise you might think it is.
Even then, overall, TOK does seem to be a good game, but it simply isn't appealing to the same crowd that the original Paper Mario games were. It's kinda like saying it's sad that Mario Bros. fans wrote off Super Mario RPG for not being what they were looking for, because, well, it wasn't.
@@Nyzer_ @Nyzer I found Color Splash to be a solid game brought down by the battle system. And as Snoman said in the video, Origami King recaptures the spirit of the original games even though it is different from them.
I did the opposite of what you say many do. I gave this one a chance. I still ended up disliking it even though I was prepared for something radically different. I had also played Stinker Star previously.
Go back and find a way to play the first three Paper Mario games. You might then understand why so many aren't willing to give TOK a chance since we got two previous games that we made very sure to tell them was something we did not like. TOK is not even really that much better than Stinker Star. The only thing I can really give the game is interesting world design.
@@PikaPhantomVG It really doesn't recapture that spirit though. It found the remaining embers of said spirit then used an extinguisher, and then an exorcist to get rid of them.
I'm just not a fan of this games new battle system I researched this game heavily before I decided it wasn't for me.I prefer simple turn based combat or even a game like Super Paper Mario the combat in that game was fun .Im just not interested in the series anymore,and will probably just stick to the first three Paper Mario games forever.
I can see the appeal of this type of battle for some people,but it's not for me.Its one of the reasons I don't play very many modern jrpgs because they have to add unnecessary gimmicks to turn based battles.Its why dragon quest 11 is so refreshing,its just a fun jrpg with no gimmicks.
I agree. I was nervous going in, but the game was an incredible shock to me. I really enjoyed the game
agreed
Me too I was going in thinking I would hate it but it was so much fun (I still like the originals more)
I really enjoyed it. But I still just don't get the fear of showing numbers. The _platformer_ one had a character sheet, told you how much HP healing items restored, and let you check enemies' max HP during gameplay. Hiding numbers just made me have to remember more things to play well.
At the very least, they could've given a ranking to each weapon instead of making me remember/guess how various boots compared to their iron equivalents. And list max HP with the other info in the museum.
Also I kept feeling clever for finding a side area, only to realize a minute later that it was actually just a required part of the main story. The cafes and toads were fun, but I'd love more meaningful optional stuff to find.
For all the hate it gets, Sticker Star is _still_ the only game in the series where you can see every enemy's HP without the use of badges or tattling.
I wish Olivia's hints were essentially Goombario or Goombella's Tattle. Honestly, that would have been much better than Olivia telling me to calm down and think things through for the 79th time in the row.
i like how the paper mario community just calls Super "the platformer one", seriously super paper mario is a good game, with a unique mix of Rpg and Platformer elements, and a *REALLY* good story that makes you cry alot especially towards the end,
@@TheYostar the story is really good but most people (including myself) don't really like the gameplay all that much.
@@TheYostar From my experience, Super Paper Mario is FAR from underrated and I seen nobody call it "The Platformer One".
It's funny how the last collectable I got, the collectable that put the game up to 100%, just so happened to be the Mario collectable.
No! Bobby! Don't go to that boulder! Oh no, he can't hear us, he has- OUR SPONSER, RAYCON!
I wish he had that on his head instead of the fuse...
;∆;
Sounds like a *CAR* spoiler. :P
I legitimately laughed out loud at the dialogue in this game, it was so much fun and added so much to the game as a whole. I think what's important is that the game wanted to go back to RPG roots, but it wasn't trying to be 64 or TYD- I had to keep that in mind while playing. It's a great game in its own right.
*The Dock*
You're on it.
@@cloveruty Lol.
Yeah, this game had lots of funny moments, and even some tear-jerking ones, too.
For me I think the biggest sin the battle system has is the expectation that every fight is meant to be finished in a single turn. That should be a reward that happens over time as you master the battle mechanics or become more powerful than the enemies in a given area. The ability to somehow strategically use vellumentals in regular battles is a huge missed opportunity, not just a random 1HKO in chain fights. As you said, enemies like boos and the groups of origami change things up a bit, but they’re about it. The battles do not really evolve in complexity with the exception of the bosses, which I both love and hate. Would’ve been much more satisfied if regular battles were handled like the macho origami enemies and the ring system was only used for bosses.
I actually agree with this 100%, the entire game you could go without getting hit if you played perfectly (other than bosses) and that's not intersting. Vellumentals in regular combat would have been SICK, thats a great idea
@@snomangaming You can beat many bosses with out taking damage. Colored Pencels is one of the best exampels!
I actually love the possibility of clearing the game without taking any damage as a challenge for expert players. I think if random encounters were drastically reduced (eliminating them altogether might cause more issues than it fixes), the battle system would shine even more. The repetition and lack of complexity in them would be less glaring as occasional speedbumps along a path of mainly varied story-based battles.
Thanks for the reply, and even though the battles really didn’t do much for me, there were other aspects that I enjoyed just fine such as world exploration and the quirky writing. Glad to hear you found enjoyment in the game either way though!
At this point they might as well remove turn-based battles in the next game altogether.
Just drop the pretence that the game's trying to be an RPG and just make it fully action adventure. Rip the bandage off.
Just have overworld exploration, overworld puzzles and overworld combat. Basically Mario's equivalent to Luigi's mansion.
So the internet loves this game. For me that is a revolutionary moment in gaming history, because people finally looked at the quality of something instead of what it isn't.
I'll say. If only there was more of that attitude for other attempts at this kind of thing. As much as I enjoy this game, still hope it breaks away from it's chains.
@@francoperalta5986 Can you further elaborate? Do you want the originals because that is fair as long as you tolerate other opinions.
@@spiritgate0444 I care about execution first. When I say chains, I mean the restrictions and resistance placed on Intelligent Systems by Miyamoto, and the attitude of a fanbase that jumps to conclusions, and denies any credit to something new regardless because it doesn't resemble games they put on a pedistal.
@@francoperalta5986 I agree with everything you just said. And what people don't realize here is that this game series didn't ruin the old one because it was never trying to be the old one. Also I agree that as talented Miyamoto is, he definitely puts to much of a focus on being different. However in this case the game was different and good.
If THIS would've been the first game of the new paper Mario's, wouldn't have had such a hard time winning over people. I hope they expand on it, if they keep going this direction.
And yeah, indie devs really have held up the torch for those classic feeling games
A hat in time, bug fables, one step from Eden, ex-zodiac, Celeste, etc, etc.
Even if these older series try to change from their old sources, people are always gonna remember them and want to build off the blueprints they loved.
True, thats why its harder and harder for game devs to take risks. But they should change their games gradually and introduce different mechanics from game to game. Honestly I like seeing different stuff in games and not the same things. (Assassins Creed I am looking at you)
Don't forget the messenger.
Also I do think he should give color splash a chance, when he talked about color splash you could see he barely played the game, he said the locations were just bland fields, because they are only in the first chapter like literally every paper mario, he even said there werent shy guys in different colors which is just wrong
@@teddyboy5932 I'm willing to give CS a chance after I've heard quite a few people genuinely praising the game.
I respect Snoman a lot, but I was kinda annoyed by that CS video he did. Seemed a little shallow.
@@cromanticheer yeah most of the problems I have with his video are the wrong things he said, even the small things like he said "what happened to the different types of shy guys? There aren't even different colors" and there aren't real types, but there are different colors, and its a small thing, but It's still not true
9:44 "Haha, you thought this was an episode of "Good Game Design"? You fool! It was a "You Need To Play" video all along!"
Hahaha I HAD to sneak it in somewhere! The game is too good
@@snomangaming I remember saying this a while back, that Paper Mario Origami King is trying to be good, even though it is different. So far that statement reigns true, even now. Cheers to Nintendo, their dev team, and yes...Bobby, because who can forget that big heart in that small, explosive, shell...
I hope this game gets DLC simmilar to Splatoon 2's Octo Expansion and Mario + Rabbids Donkey Kong Adventure.
Nintendo Boy Yeah we need DLC
omg maybe it could be about king shromses and we go back to see him when he was young
They should add a reference to that one place in Wind Waker because the Great sea sort of exists in both, and have Mario meet a distant cousin of Grandsappy or 2
@ink at least it has haunted ruins in the east of scorching sandpaper desert. But yeah, it would be awesome to see a haunted mansion, and perhaps an eraser or shredder as a boss.
Its amazing how we went from Color Splash bosses where basically the only challenge was getting a certain Thing card which was annoying to these fun and stragety based bosses to the point where people say their the best part of the game.
Now thats what i call going from the worst to the best.
coming from someone who loved the original and a thousand year door. This game was truly amazing. I feel the writers knew what they were doing when they wrote olivia and designed her. She was so charming and cute that once i got to the end i actually cried.
At last, a ttyd fan who doesn't hate the new games
I had an interesting experience with the game. As someone who had only played colour splash (and thought it was pretty fun) I decided I would play both Paper Mario 64 and Origami King back to back for the first time. I’m not going to sugarcoat it, I liked 64 more (keep in mind I have no nostalgia bias here). However it wasn’t because of the battle system, it was because of the sense of story and variety it provided. When I completed it I was content, when I beat Origami King I wanted more. More quirks in battle more collectables more interesting environments and set pieces (which felt farther apart). I think liked the core of TOK more and I love many of the moments and characters but it’s bogged down by slower pacing and lack of meaningful progression. It’s a shame it didn’t strive to do more and more with its ideas.
It definetily had potential to be the best Paper Mario game
PM64 is my favorite too.
If you haven't played TTYD is possible to emulate on phones now.
I have a way to play all of them so ttyd and super are next
@@Alex-wv7wf Have fun.
Origami King has quickly become one of my favorite games in the series. I found the battles really unique and the lack of exp wasn't really a problem. The game is really fun.
I hope this game does well. Even if we never get a paper Mario like the old days, I’d rather have this than no paper Mario at all.
yea me too and tbh i actually enjoyed origomi king more than super paper mario and 64 and i played those when i was a kid and i had sticker star too which was annoying but still better than super and 64
Don't worry this game sells like crazy even surpassing SPM
Same! Though this wasn't as good as the first three, I enjoyed it as much! (Not as a Paper Mario game, mind you, as a game in general.)
Rain it’s true it was the second sold game this year it just goes to show it Doesn’t need to be like the first 3 games to be a good paper mario game
@@Kurumithespiritnightmare i respect sticker star being better than spm cuz that game only had a good story but no way its better than 64
I'm about two thirds through the main story and the second area absolutely won me over. Not gonna lie, I had more fun with this game than PM1. The connected world is great.
I thought I was the only one who liked battles.
Later battles actually become reasonably difficult in their puzzles. And battles never feel like a "I need to avoid them" like Sticker Star, because they still let you use your basic, unbreakable move.
In my opinion, I like this system more than if they decided to make a normal battle system.
I can finally come out of hiding. Finally people who likes the battle system
I like the battle system too, I just wish there was a reason to use items outside of the pow block and the tail for ninjis
@@taanwallbanks9841 well, in the early game, fire flowers are really strong because of the high damage, and later on, you get shiny flowers that do around 50 damage. Also, mushrooms are good for bosses, and same for 1-ups
6:46 the rock paper scissors boss actually isn't trial and error if you notice that while you're arranging the battlefield he'll lightly show which move he's going to do
He does however change what he is going to do on a dime, so much so it is possible for him to change in the time it takes for you to press a to confirm your move and for the game to realise you pressed a
"something TOK has that the older games lacked is a plethora of collectibles"
*laughs in star pieces, badges and shine sprites*
The thing is that I never really got all the star pieces, which were the collectible that there were the most of in ttyd (never played 64, so can't really say anything about it). I got the ones that I just HAPPENED to find, but not much more than that. There was no real variety in how they were hidden. They were just either in trees, bushes, or the floor. Meanwhile toads in Origami King are hidden in all kinds of ways, and treasures and question blocks also have variety in the ways they are hidden. I actually wanted to 100% Origami King, and I did. Not saying old games are bad, (they are really good in fact) I'm just stating a strength the collectibles in Origami King had over the other games.
5:06 “It was enough to nudge me toward the Final Solution.”
*oh no*
Hey, at least Bobby went out with a bang...
I miss him every day...
(Spoiler)
What really gets me about that (I haven't played so this might be addressed) is why does he die? Was I actually killing bombette all those times? Did I really kill several of her identical siblings because I thought there might be something behind a wall that actually didn't even break? Origami King has retroactively turned me into a monster.
cowsandturtles he is an ordinary bomb-omb is the short answer
@@yeetusdefeetus better answer is he's a dynamite
God damn it
"Please don't write off mario's outing as not being more of the same!"
Buddy there's been 4 paper marios since TTYD and none of them have been like it.
This probably has to be one one of my favorite paper Mario games
At least the Legion of Stationary have character to them too lol
_Not to mention they’re actually the best_
I was very apprehensive about the Legion at first, but the fact that they have hillarious and quirky personalities (and clever battle mechanics) really sold them for me.
Plus, I really loved how alien they looked in a paper environment. Made you feel like you were fighting some otherworldly entities.
Cromanti Cheer and in some sort of way you were! They pulled it off phenomenally
@GHANI ZIYAD SAGIANSYAHI honestly can't imagine TOK without the Legion. Who else would you use for Olly's lieutenants? Bigger origami bosses? Well, how would you distinguish them from the velementals? Literally every other option I can think of just feels so...boring.
They were a clever addition to the game within the restrictions that Nintendo put on IntSys.
This series kind of shows that being different isn't automatically bad. It's more complex than some parts working better than others. Since we can also inverse the criticism and say the environments in the old games were for the most part going from left to the right. Very fews camera changes since those tried to look like stage plays. And not a lot of activities outside of battles.
IMO also the music has been constantly improving throughout the series, at the very least in terms of production values.
The vibes I've gotten from reviews is that music is and writing is great, but the regular enemy fights are pointless while boss fights are decisively great or terrible. Also, the latter half is when it gets better.
Sticker Star and Color Splash really ruin Origami King's reputation because you know why.
Not much to do outside of battles? But... almost every screen was a puzzle... either focusing on the puzzles or the battles. There were star pieces EVERYWHERE just like the confetti/Toads but more spread out so you actually FOUND them. Hidden blocks, secrets, puzzles... there was a lot to do.
I do agree TTYD used left and right very heavily... but 64 had a lot of ups and downs as well.
Super Paper Mario exists
I see many people praising the first three and complaining about the later three games when I distinctly remember everyone talking about SPM back in the day like it was the antichrist. Mob mentality.
I feel like it may be the same way in the future with modern paper mario.
Those are 2 different groups of people. The fans at the time hated it because it abandoned the style of the first two games, children loved it because it was their first paper Mario game
I can't compare This game to the older ones, because I haven't played them. but I glad you liked it too.
There are a few things worth mentioning, what makes this game a very good game, in my opinion. But spoiler warning
1. I still care for a side character, even weeks after finishing the game.
I got a bob-omb Lego figure. And I couldn't be happier. His sacrifice was great storytelling and Olivias reaction to it was great to. And when you revisit the places you where with Bobby and sit on benches Olivia remembers him.
(Wait a second, it ties in with the ending... Where Olivia is the one that sacrifices herself...)
2. I have the feeling that they tried to connect the exploration and the combat. Instead of giving you EXP for getting stronger, you get stronger by exploring the world to find heart pieces.
The reward for defending the boss battle is having more confetti, with makes it easier to explore.( Maybe a little)
3.the real life objects where great enemies, because you knew the form real life. You knew why they were dangerous to a hero made out of paper, but you also knew where a weakness might be.
4. I am more a puzzle than an RPG gamer. And for me, the combat was great. And I still find toads adorable, so I don't mind rescuing them.
After all I wouldn't mind a Origami King 2, because I think there is much more potential in the ring battle and the Origami theme.
Origami king is so good, it actually kinda hurts that they didn't go the entire way to make it as good as ttyd and in some ways 64. The battle system is cool, no exp coins instead which is fine, because they're used a lot. However I will say, pow blocks, fire flowers+ice flowers kinda break normal enemies, you don't have to fully solve the battle puzzles if you have them. I wish allies were useable and had their own health. I get that they'd be really hard to implent into boss fights but I feel like they could've been fine to use in normal fights. Having them not go into certain rooms or areas, and only attacking after Mario with one standard attack successfully or not is p lame. Same with them not having their own health. I kinda get partners not having special moves or items cus they would have to be used much more in that case. It also feels like they could've gone further with the unique designs and added more new characters besides just origami, most of the normal enemies feel kinda generic sometimes with different colours. Overall it's a great story and a step in the right direction. Sadly with every paper Mario forcing a new battle system I'm not expecting the next battle system to be very good. Changing it up is cool and all but trying to re-invent the wheel with battles will inevitably lead them to create a terrible battle system again. Overall great game, it has renewed my faith in the paper Mario series if only slightly.
Well, after seeing the thumbnail and watching this video, you've fully convinced me to give this game a shot. I was eventually going to get it, but not as a Day 1 buy.
I do miss the story, gameplay, and original designed characters the first 3 games had (yes I'm counting Super Paper Mario in terms of story and characters), but I can see that The Origami King has that same charm, humor, personality, and fun moments outside of battle that the first 3 games and Color Splash had along with a killer soundtrack.
And that's probably enough of a reason for me to try it out, even if I may or may not enjoy the battles. Besides, I can always return to the original trilogy or play Bug Fables if I'm missing that classic Paper Mario feel.
Gamers after playing new super Mario Bros : this is same old shit we want something new
Same Gamers after playing origami king : this is not paper Mario we want old paper Mario back
*tbh i haven’t played any paper mario games before so knowing that starting with origami king isn’t a bad idea is all the more refreshing to me*
Two of the older games can be emulated on phones now.
@@tomo8940 yeah ik i have paper mario 64 on my samsung tab E but the farm rate is unbearable
I love how the old games merged with the modern games (which I loved so much).
I really like Origami King. Although its not the same as the original Paper Mario, my favorite by far, it was still fun to play!
Paper Mario TOK: The game where you can see which players of the paper mario fanbase have critical thinking and puzzle solving skills and those who don´t. I´m the former :) . Jokes aside I loved the battle system. Felt so rewarding everytime I solved them.
My main gripe with TOK gameplay-wise is that there's no resource you get from battles that's exclusive to them.
Confetti? It's all over the overworld.
Coins? Just throw some confetti in a hole or hit a nearby question block and you'll be set.
The point of EXP in the first two (three, technically) games was to provide a sense of progression that you could ONLY acquire through battling enemies, and as with its predecessors SS and CS, TOK simply doesn't have that
Coins may not be exclusive to battles, but you would have to be actually insane if you think you can just rely on overworld coins to buy stuff.
Everything in this game is EXPENSIVE. I actually ran out of money when I visited the Snifit City, and got a game over because I can't pay 1000 coins to the scammer in said city.
@@wermutton2125 that really shows the poor design of the progression
@@toooydoeur The fuck? How?
In a standard RPG, if you can't beat a fight, you grind for XP. In Origami King, the 'XP' is coins.
@@wermutton2125 but you can also get them out of battle normally, doesn't make them exclusive which is bad design
@@toooydoeur Did you read anything of what I said?
Yes, its not exclusive to battle, but what you get in the overworld is simply not enough to do anything. You can collect all the coins in the overworld in all 40 hours of playtime and only buy like 1 charm at best.
In the overworld, you get 1s and 10s. Whereas everything in the game costs 1000 to 10,000++
Thus battles, which get you up to 1000 (end game amount) a fight is vital for progression
I was all against playing this game, since I had the bad luck of playing sticker star. This video made me want to try it. Now, I'm LOVING IT!
Thank you Snoman! :D
Have fun!
I really do feel like toad cheer was way too overpowered. Its basically an instant win button. If you give them 999 coins which is extremely easy to get. They usually full heal you, do damage to the enemies and finish the puzzle. It should of costed more or something
Or at least like 3000 or something. Its just too easy to solve the puzzles instantly
Yeah 100 giving you one move is a little too low imo, maybe if they increased it over time (200, 300 etc)
"usually full heal you" ... yeah well you basically get healed every five seconds anyways xF
I still hope for some more RPG elements at some point down the line (which may never happen again) but I was also pleasantly surprised by Origami King after avoiding Sticker Star and Color Splash like the plague.
I really liked color splash honestly. But I can't say the same with sticker star.
Color Splash is awesome, don't avoid it!
sticker star was okay
Color splash was a great game and a massive improvement on sticker star
Some rando troll: Lol! There's no good game design in TOK! It's just Sticker Star 3!
Pffft Sticker Star 3?!
No, obviously it’s Color Splash 2.
@@humblemememumbles Some rando troll: exactly! that means it's automatically bad by default!
I'm still trying to decide whether or not The Origami King is better than Super Paper Mario. I'm torn (pun intended).
At least that tells that you enjoy Origami King ;)
Personally, whilst I enjoyed TOK, SPM will always have a special place in my heart as it was the game that introduced me to the Paper Mario franchise. Also, it has the best villains, don’t @ me
@@TeknoThom i @'d you
If there were two things:
- EXP, giving a reason to battle
- Badges, to encourage interesting strategies
The game would jump from a 6/10 to an 8/10 for me.
Gosh dang, the battles are fun but there's no reason to do it.
One of the things that bugged me was that there are battle accessories, but they are only for getting extra time, HP or defense. It's like a really watered down version of the badges from the first games. They definitely should've made more interesting accessories
"Gosh dang, the battles are fun but there's no reason to do it. "
Why not do it because it's fun?
Gamers these days are so *weird*, always needing some artificial progression nonsense. Why not play just because it's fun?
Yeah I can't even call them badges at all, they are not even close. Basically just upgrades. EXP would have been nice, but again I liked that exploring in the world led to 'leveling up' instead, it was just different
@@snomangaming My distaste for it comes from the fact that the only reason to fight was to get confetti and sometimes get a level-up item. It felt like plain, simple gating.
I'm not saying that the battle system is bad, far from it, just I'd like to have EXP instead of items to boost my stats, and for confetti to mostly be for optional sidequests and the like and those things would make the experience much better for me.
@@fy8798 Because they aren't fun. Not compared to a more action based system, or a more puzzle based system, or a more turn based system.
This system takes all the time that a regular turn based battle system does, but without any of the unit progression that makes up for the time spent. Compare that to a platformer, which not only lets you chew through these unrewarding enemies with far less time spent, but is likely to unlock movement and combat abilities over the course of the game to allow the player to get through areas faster.
There's a damn good reason that anyone who reviews this game, whether they love it or not, always talks about avoiding or fleeing battles.
What a fair reveiw that’s impossible?!
Thank you so much for mentioning Bug Fables. I'm a little over halfway through and I've been in love since the start. Thank you for this review as well. I was a little on the fence with this one but this gives me hope. I think I will give it a go sometime soon. You're the man! Keep it up!
You know, as a long time fan of the series I was really on the fence about buying the game. I know it’s different from the games I fell in love with as a kid, and yet there’s still something so charming about the newer games, namely TOK. After watching this video, I’m buying the game. If I don’t like it, at least the music will keep me pushing through.
Grab Bug Fables instead, better music, and actually plays like the older Paper Mario games.
Definitely grab TOK! An amazing game, and probably the most fun I've had with any of the turn based Mario games I've played.
@@Cerebrum123 "better music" lol ok bud
@@drakon0873 I'm entirely serious. Can't remember any of the TOK music even if I try. It was just kind of there, and was very samey for most of the game.
@Bartek Zabawa It's not "literally just me" unless you are using literally in a figurative sense. I've seen many people express the opinion I have of TOK's music.
TOK is basically spaghetti without the sauce. At least it’s better than the moldy table scraps we were getting before.
*SPOILERS*
I just finished this game for the first time a few days ago and I thought it was extremely fun! I've finished TTYD and Super Paper Mario, and am a bit of the way through 64, but I thought this game had more charm (at some points) than TTYD and even had scenarios that were up to par with TTYD. Like, the whole second area was AMAZING, and I loved Whispering Woods to death.
However, I felt like the end of the game was rushed. I think the first three areas were fine, but the fourth felt like none of the islands really mattered story-wise aside from Mushroom Island and the Diamond Island. The path to the Sea Tower should have been harder, and I feel like the Sea Tower should have had separate segments for each Vellumental instead of throwing them all together. Or, better, it could have just been lengthened out with some nice puzzles.
I felt that the fifth area was completely rushed. It became a fetch quest for each corner of the region and then was far too short. I think initially each spring would have been its own side area with a mini quest, and Bowser's Castle was meant to be much longer. I mean, come on, are we really to believe that his whole CASTLE is just a foyer, throne room, and two small side wings? I think they could have easily replicated the Palace of Shadows from TTYD for this, or even for the Origami Castle.
I think the ending could've been built up more and the bond between Olly and Olivia could have been emphasized a bit more to help the players feel the emotion. I loved Bobby, and I actually almost cried when he died at the beginning of the yellow streamer. I think the first half was perfection, and the second needed some work. And I think the trophies could have been a bit harder... the Eddy River one and the Shy Guys Finish Last trophies, as well as Scuffle Island all felt worth it, but the others... not so much (excluding the 'collect all ___' trophies).
But overall, I loved the game, and I'm excited to see what the future of Paper Mario holds!
This game is like taking a vacation with a broken leg. You’ll be enjoying yourself, but when you need to move, you’ll remember your leg is broken. Ye, the music, the scenery, the charm, the humor, is the vacation. The battle system is your broken leg.
The combat system isn't as engaging or strategic as I'd have liked, but I cannot stress enough how much the world lifts this game up. It is PACKED with hidden items, mini puzzles, hilarious nods to Nintendo lore, and fun locations to visit. It is absolutely worth exploring regardless of the below average combat mechanics.
I feel like the battle system is under implemented I feel like there should have been tons of different movements so the player can play to their liking with different items that also have different lineups for maybe increased damages or possible debuffs. I also believe the vellumental powers appearing randomly in waves is a bit silly what’s the point of a wave battle if they are to give you vellumental powers every other wave fight. And maybe adding a mastery level for abilities based on uses of your three options but that’s not really all that necessary. If vellumental powers had set abilities for you to use at times that’d be interesting I still feel as the battle system is still bare bones despite it still being able to force critical thinking every so often
Tbh the tutorials are less annoying than constantly being accosted by Hop in Sword & Shield and that's good enough for me
The musicals scenes where the best part of the game
The moment that really made the game for me was the Shy Guy Ballet. Swan Lake (Punk Remix) was an amazing choice.
9:00 OBJECTION!! The older games DID have end game collectables that were difficult to aquire!
-Paper Mario had the star shard that would give you special perk for collecting them, like upgrading your partner.
-Thousand Year Door had the requests you could do, and collectable badges.
-Super Paper Mario ESPECIALLY had countless maps you could buy, which made you treasure hunt for a certain section of the level, then flip it around to find a special item.
SPM had cards which were mostly on sale or 100 pit easy to take
Star shards are only done for badges
Collection on the three first games doesnt affect the game unlike the origami king
@@Chiisaru "Collection on the three first games doesnt affect the game unlike the origami king"
Pardon? All the collectables mentioned for the first three games affect gameplay, even if indirectly. Star Pieces, as you said give you more badges, effectively giving you more options in battle the more you collect. Shine Sprites and Upgrade Blocks boost your partner's stats and abilities. SPM's cards caused you to deal double damage to an enemy whose card you owned.
If TOK's collectables do things in game, I haven't had anyone mention it to me (having not played it yet, myself). The video makes it sound like they're just museum displays (nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't sound like affecting the game).
I like mangos, but. Mangos are underrated
Totally agree bro, they are so underrated don’t understand why
I do not like mangos. But I do like pineapples, but. Pineapples are overrated.
I don't think they're underrated, everyone in my country loves mangos
why eat mangos when. you can become a mango
rowboat good point
I’m still sad about Bobby
I love how Bobby has become the soul emotional and lovable character of the game
It was definitely a lot more fun than I expected it to be. And there were several emotional points that hit me as hard as some of the emotional parts of TTYD. The battles are definitely a double edged sword, although the lack of experience never really affected my amount of desire to get into them. A lot of the time they were fun, however this was a very mentally intensive system which tended to wear on me, especially the bosses. I know that often ended up driving me to avoiding more encounters than I should have and I ended up having to grind out encounters to buy things at times. I especially sometimes had difficulty wrapping my head around the ways that the game wanted me to combine sliding and spinning; even more so during the picture fixing minigame. I noticed that there were a lot of very cinematic action scenes which didn't really feel necessary, and by probably around Green Streamer I was getting annoyed at them. I wished that they had gone with full voice acting for the songs rather than the half singing with just sung noises, especially with how much emphasis they put on those songs. One thing I appreciated was the subtle things they did for accessibility. The most obvious one would be the cheering system, but it even extends to the puzzles in the world. If you fail or reset a puzzle several times it will get easier. For instance in the memory matching platforms, it starts by going from back to front, but it will also go from front to back, then eventually will light up all the correct platforms after doing the panel and then dropping all the wrong platforms in the lava. I ended up getting turned around or misjudging jumps into the lava a number of times on that one. In the sliding ice puzzle if you reset too many times then it highlights all the ones which need to be cleared out first. I don't know any more for that one since it's harder to mess that one up and the main issue for me was realizing that I needed to leave some of the snow in to smash off of or stop me, and then experimenting with which ones.
Chris 371
10 hours ago
Another issue that I had was that I felt like I had very little idea of how much damage I'd actually be doing with an attack, and the lack of info about remaining health of enemies except that they're almost dead definitely didn't help. I wish the partners were less geographically and storyline constrained. At least Professor Toad will be with you throughout the desert, I can't even take Kamek through a second trip through the jungle. They're definitely helpful for cleanup even if they sometimes fail to attack.
My biggest complaint probably has to be related to something that I read about and then struggled trying to achieve before giving up for now. Which would be the fact that the secret ending is tied to getting all the trophies. There's a lot of stupid stuff that you need to get really good at to do that.
Honestly I made sure to never use any one-up mushroom It made me feel like a better person beat all the bosses without it
so I genuinely didnt know you could buy one
I was very pleasantly surprised by OK and thoroughly enjoyed the game. However, towards the end, the battle system REALLY started to annoy me and I found myself skipping more and more enemy encounters. I also don't understand the incredible resistance of the developers towards re-introducing XP, and REAL badges and partners. Instead, we have cheap knock-off versions of each. For example, it would feel much more rewarding to have levelling up being directly connected to battles/XP, instead of randomly finding those Plus Hearts (or you could have those in addition to traditional leveling).
If OK had those things, the traditional combat system, and more unique/modified characters (instead of hundreds of Toads) it would be a masterpiece in my book instead of just a very good game. Because, as you mentioned in the video, the presentation, soundtrack, and writing are absolutely amazing.
Or if they just leaned in to the lack of RPG mechanics and made these games pure action-adventure or platformer.
This hybrid system where the battles take as long as RPGs with as little direct control as RPGs, but lack all of the rewards that make those factors worthwhile... I don't think it appeals to anyone, and that people like it in spite of those flaws, rather than because of them.
I gave origami king HOURS of my time. The battle system makes me sick. But i love EVERYTHING ELSE which upsets me. I want so much more of this story. But the only good fights are the macho origami that you dont ring battle against.
"There is something for everyone"
Oh oh
Damn man you're one of my favorite gaming channels....not sure how every video isn't hitting a million views each!!!!
I’m at the second area and really haven’t been enjoying the battle system or exploration a whole lot, and I’ve just been wondering what I’m missing with all the praise this games been getting
I finished the game and i think the battle system is boring, you usually 1HKO most of enemies and gets tedious after some time, and you don't miss anything, the game throws you coins and confetti anyways, and if you don't want to lose time just pay to the toads to do the "puzzle* for you
Not for everyone
its great to hear a different opinion showing more of those pros.most reviews i ve seen didnt mention half of the good things said here.
i love you intro.
I think the combat system was very innovative and worked well. But I think it didnt use even half of its potential.
As many people already said, why do they not show mumbers? Enemy hp, attack damage of weapons, even how much items heal, etc. Another thing that I never understood, why did they suddenly go from small, easy to calculate numbers as 1 for attack damage for example, to higher more random numbers like 14? It just removes strategy and adds randomness.
I also dont like that the battles are prebuild puzzles that have one solution that they absolutely want you to find. The main focus was solving the puzzle and it was objectively the right thing to do. I think the damage buff you get for solving it is just unnecessary. You solved it? Good. You didnt? Well fuck you. I would have prefered if the enemy positions where just random and you had to find what you think was the best solution and not the only right one.
Also, why are items useless? The pow block is the only useful item in the game and you can carry 3 of it in total. The attack items just tend to be weaker but harder to perform versions if your standard attacks abd they dont even work sometimes when they really should. The whole badge system also barely used any of its potential. Every hammer for example is the same with different damage. Oh wait, there are fire and ice hammers? To bad that they dont work with the bosses and only with normal enemys, that you could kill anyways if you solve the puzzle. Same with boots. There is only two categorys. Can jump on every thing and cant. Also there is (hammer throw which is a worse jump btw).
Its a nice start but it lacks depth and player individualization and goes more for the "There is only one right solution" approach.
Also, and this is my subjective opinion, I dislike that the game has 3 battle systems. The first games didnt have that because they didnt need to. The system was simple but you could do so much with it that bosses and normal encounters felt different anyways. In this game they need to do this because the systems are so situational that they wouldnt have worked in other situations. Isnt the main goal of Nintendo games (even if not developed by them) to start with a simple concept and expand on it? Yeah, adding three battle systems for different situations that all have to be learned first is the exact opposite
6:34 hole punch is dancing to the music
3:09 Mario: Jumps on pokeys
Me: "Wait, that's illegal."
sees 'shiny iron boots'
"Oh, carry on."
I have to write off this game SPECIFICALLY because it's not more of the same. I want more of the same, I like turn-based RPGs, that's my shit, and I want more of it. Going back to playing 64 and TTYD is not "more of the same", it's "literally the same", I've never really got that argument, personally.
That being said, I will never judge a game that I haven't played. This might as well be a great fucking game, and I've seen enough praise for it to believe so myself, it's just not the game I wanted so I have no reason to play it, simple as that. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything because this game doesn't have any of the things I really want; the same way I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything by not playing the Forza games because I don't care for racing games.
Regardless, great video as usual Snoman, can always count on great content from the channel
I wanted to try it since Super Paper Mario was something I really enjoyed, and it wasn't an RPG. This however disappointed me in almost every way possible when I already had low expectations. I couldn't bring myself to go much past the third boss.
Edit. You want something like the first two get Bug Fables. Maybe if that game sells enough copies Nintendo will notice that we want a Mario Story(original Japanese name for the series) game and not a Mario made of Paper game.
Play super paper mario it doesnt have rpg like first 2 but it still feels like it
I rlly see this game as a mix like for sure it’s a Colour Splash sequel in the roots (never played that game tho and I have high regrets on that I didnt !) I have seen so many small details that could knock you bk such as the audience in battles or the partners (at least Bobby and Professor Toad cuz they used the right elements!) Not mention returning to Toad Town which havent been shown since 64. This game rlly brought up alot with pretty its design, music, battle system & humour!!
My only complainment is that lack of oppurtunity for the world making bcuz after Sand Paper desert it felt abit dull bcuz I would have loved a snow world or Yoshi’s Island ... But ofc I enjoyed this game and I think they are in the right direction for me to appriciate it enough for not being as the first 2. It got something for everyone! Olivia is the best girl and Bobby will always be a true PM partnere with a backstory as deep well written as Admiral Bobbery! , excellent video, mate!
God, I love this game so much as well! It may not be a return to form, but it’s just as good as TTYD IMO
Edit! *sighs* knew I was gunna get attacked
If ur looking for a TTYD style game.
Try Bug Fables.
Or southpark stick of truth
Charziken909 snoman already said it didnt you watch
Ehh
@@stagivian4705
Did he mention stick of truth?
I guess i missed it
It’s really not as good. If you like it, great. But there’s many things wrong with it that keep it from being truly great, I can copy+paste an essay I just wrote in the comments section to reply to snoman if you’re interested in the discussion.
You absolutely captured what makes it great. Thank you so much. I just want everyone to love and appreciate how creative this game is.
Wow, thanks snowman! I never thought of going back to that professor toad to get new items. It's crazy that this game still has secrets that I didn't know about even though I 100% the game. But I do wish I got the hidden block sensor earlier. There were times where I spent 10 minutes trying to find a single hidden block :|
YEAH I went back and got the invisible cloak waaaay later than I should have, I hadn't been fax traveling, but I'm glad I went back and checked
Huh??? What? But the game specifically tells you to go back. Do people not read the notifications? They have an alert sound and everything.
However I do agree some of the hidden blocks were too obscure. Especially in the Earth Vellumental cave, where some of them dont seem to have an indication at all. At least not one that youd be able to tell is there under normal circumstances.
This game.....is hell. To 100%. Shy Guys Finish Last perfect run? The ring trainer? The bossomatic? NO NEW GAME PLUS?! I've had to take a few days off from the game because of it. Now, the game itself? Near perfect.
The true 100% includes everything you said but 2 additional tasks. Not a single game over and beat the game without using accessories. 🙂
Alternate titles for each modern Paper mario :
Paper mario sticker star : wrath of Bowser
Color splash : Twinsanity
Origami King : it's about folds
It's about power
I expected this to be a Bad game design episode. I'm pleased it's not.
7:58 I FORGOT ABOUT THE LAMINATION SUIT
Don't worry- we all did.
I still miss the narrative and world of the old games. The writters could make something big without those stupid creative limitations.
Isn't that the main reasons people are bashing this game? Because of those interviews?
That's probably my biggest frustration with with modern day Paper Mario.
I hope either the restrictions get lightened up or IntSys gets really creative. And while I'd prefer the former, I feel like the latter IS possible, given that you could create a partner system like PM64/TTYD but with established main series characters like Birdo or a Koopaling.
@@cromanticheer They could always use the cast of the Mario Party games. Like Wario, Waluigi, Daisy, or Rosalina.
This game has one of the best Soundtracks ever. As soon as the vellumental boss theme played in this video I almost completely lost track of what you were saying and was just bopping to the music 😂
Every argument you presented on this video really only cements that OK is not a bad game... but I don't think you can say it has actual, good game design. Maybe it does have fun overworld explortion, but the combat is just as shallow as previous entries. Every fight boils down to solving a puzzle and using your strongest attacks to oneshot every enemy. There is NO variety in weapons, either, you just get boots that can jump on spiky enemies and a hammer that acts like boots. It's really just OK, which is a huge upgrade from the previous two entries, of course, but not quite "good" just yet, at least for me. I had fun with the game, anyway.
This comment reeks of a person who didn’t play the game.
The battle system can be better, but it’s puzzle design especially during bosses is really good.
And it’s not just the battle system, everything about this game outside is VERY well designed.
It’s not like the originals, boohoo, it’s still a good fucking game
@@johndelkab2111 How is anything that I said false, though? I wasn't even talking about boss fights and every random encounter IS finished by solving a puzzle and using whatever your strongest weapon is at the time. There is no depth to the combat.
@@Hawlo Oh, that's easy: only fans of the older games have to respect others opinions now.
That Video Game was Awesome
Careful
You put 'Good Game Design' along with 'Origami King', you're asking for the die hard TTYD fans to dislike bomb the hell outta ya lol
They're probably gonna mass dislike this video now that Arlo put his "correct" review out
@@dddgaming885 I saw a bit of his video, but how does that invalidate this video?
I'm really happy that so many people are warming up to origami king. It's great to see.
I’m usually the gamer of the house, but my gf got Origami King and played this obsessively and would 10/10 recommend!
My wife said "this looks so wholesome, I should play it!" she never plays games lol
Snoman Gaming so awesome! Thanks for your awesome vids.
Isn't she the main market Nintendo's trying to appeal to now with the new games?
Game is really good. The Boss battles are awesome and actually have some good character considering they are faceless objects.
This was an awesome game. I’m going for 100%
This game is lacking if you want it be a true spiritual successor to the first 2 games
its great if you think of patching up problems in color splash and making it on the level of the first 2 games but different in its own way but still paper mario at its core!
i can't wait to dive deeper into this game and enjoy it more!
Man the game looks awesome and i get the old era vibes but the combat systems seems too boring for me, I want the old turned based system from 64 or TYD those battle mechanics were and still are the best ones. Apart from that the writing seems as witty as it was before and the graphics looks really nice if they come back to
The old battle system then it’s a no brainer for anyone
Originally played the first chapter when the game first game out, but lost steam and stopped playing. Just picked it back up when TTYD remake was announced, now just finishing the game yesterday and was so pleasantly surprised with how much I enjoyed the game. A slow start, but well worth the investment. Every area is rich and fully fleshed out with tons to uncover as you explore. Loved the interactions between common “enemies” as they’ve now turned allies to fight against the origami and their king. Great video man, glad you highlighted how this game is a return to form in series while not being a copy of PM64 or TTYD
there's still no reason to battle. Yes items get expensive in the game but I was getting so much coins by exploring the over world and doing forced battles that I can afford everything
Incoming person that mentions 1 or 2 bad guys u have to fight for 1 or 2 items
There actually is a reason to battle
*Its fun*
@@TheCookieCook but it's really not
fireheart4560 opinions
fireheart4560 You’re right, using puzzle solving and a progression in battle is terrible for thousand yea- I mean origami king
Question: Have you played the Mario and Luigi games? If so, what do you think about them?
I've tried to start Superstar Saga twice now and just fell off after a couple hours. Can't put my finger on why, just didn't grab me like PM does
Snoman Gaming I highly recommend the other games. Especially Bowser’s inside story.
@@snomangaming Weird question, but do you have an attention based disorder or have trouble staying focused? OK throws so many different things at you in every given moment that if you lose focus on one you drift into another.
This would likely explain it.
@@snomangaming i don't want to sound bad or like a fanboy but when you like PM TOK but not M&L i can only think the word bruh in a ironic way
But that is just my opinion and don't have anything againts your opinion
Rip Olivia the endings so sad😭😭😭😭
This game was built with being a collectathon in mind. So many mechanics meant to help you find stuff. This direction sets it apart from the 2 games that came before it and made it a good game
I love the game I just wish you could equip partner characters instead of story only once with them but the is great everything is spectacular / bobby was good for all of it
I actually really disliked that partners never felt really attached to the story. They felt like tools while here they have a purpose. they involve themselves in the story way more and feel like... actual characters and partners?
@@davidjohansson4556 exactly and then they (or some) were basically meaningless in fights (just like hitting a first attack) and like bobby they don't even go in to the temple with you... like whats the point of them even at that point
@@NinjarioPicmin He meant that the partners in origami king were much better story wise.
@@davidjohansson4556 exactly they were only in the game for small segments of the story
@@somethin7020 sure the partners in tok are better then anything in sticker star or color splash and probably even pm64 but ttyd and spm still have better characters imo
Dang it Bobby! I told you not to take baby steps in that vidya game.