The pace is too fast, the defensive style is to always close out. The offense is so uncreative. Its always drive and kick. Bane always goes flying and falling just to get 2 points. That gives the players so much wear and tear.
I wonder if the coaches will let Edey use his skills and dominant stature! Right now all they got him doing is just setting picks, running around near the basket trying to boxout for rebounds. Let him post more and draw fouls. You are ruining his growth!
lol that’s not how the nba is played. No one is ever going to feed him and give him 10 second post touches. It’s a space and pace league with the stars controlling everything and he’s not 1,2, or 3 on the pecking order of touches. If you want him to get post touches you have to play him with the second unit because they’re not prioritizing lane clogging post ups over JA, JJ, and Bane. This was always going to be an issue because no one wants 6 seconds of backing someone down and clogging the lane in the modern nba. Bringing him off the bench is the only way he’ll get any consistent post touches or else he’s going to have to learn to block shots, rebound, and be a lob threat and thrive in that role. This isn’t 10-15 years ago.
It’s 4 games, not only does he need to learn to play with his team, this is the first he is playing against these teams and centers, so it’s a learning process
During the preseason, he got both minutes and touches and dominated. Now, he’s getting neither and you’re worried about him? Get him on the floor & feed him!
lol that’s not how the nba is played. No one is ever going to feed him and give him 10 second post touches. It’s a space and pace league with the stars controlling everything and he’s not 1,2, or 3 on the pecking order of touches. If you want him to get post touches you have to play him with the second unit because they’re not prioritizing lane clogging post ups over JA, JJ, and Bane. This was always going to be an issue because no one wants 6 seconds of backing someone down and clogging the lane in the modern nba. Bringing him off the bench is the only way he’ll get any consistent post touches or else he’s going to have to learn to block shots, rebound, and be a lob threat and thrive in that role. This isn’t 10-15 years ago.
@@Zytate lol that’s not how the nba is played. No one is ever going to feed him and give him 10 second post touches. It’s a space and pace league with the stars controlling everything and he’s not 1,2, or 3 on the pecking order of touches. If you want him to get post touches you have to play him with the second unit because they’re not prioritizing lane clogging post ups over JA, JJ, and Bane. This was always going to be an issue because no one wants 6 seconds of backing someone down and clogging the lane in the modern nba. Bringing him off the bench is the only way he’ll get any consistent post touches or else he’s going to have to learn to block shots, rebound, and be a lob threat and thrive in that role. This isn’t 10-15 years ago.
I have watched all the Memphis games with Edey. What I am seeing right now is you can see Edey is still thinking rather than reacting which eventually Zach will learn and improve. What disappoints me is the lack of Memphis utilizing Zach's post skills. In the preseason fans were excited to see Zach possibly bringing the Big man back to the NBA. If teams are going to go small like the Bulls you punish them by going to Zach in the post on offense. As Joe and Damichael point out Head Coach Jenkins blinked as soon as the Bulls went small. The NBA Hierarchy seems unwilling to try and change the game. I watch NBA games and see player's drive to the basket unchallenged and I think where are the rim protector's?
It's simple to fix you just need to play Zach Edey let him figure it out on the floor not on the bench then he will improve. Coach is not utilizing Zach, the most dominant guy on the court. Coach is doing one thing absolutely perfect, and that's killing zachs confidence. Team needs to get zach involved pass the ball to him let him cook
I like how yall don’t talk about how fucking bad Marcus smart is, if Dillion was playing this bad yall would be all over it but somehow the local media is giving bumpy face a pass
I don't understand why Clingan keeps being brought up. Clingan was drafted before Zach Edey so it's a moot point. As for criticism by some in this thread Zach has played FOUR GAMES. BTW in College last season Zach Edey abused Ware. Ware's game may translate better to the NBA but last year against IU Zach dominated Ware and IU was blown out in both games. Go look up their head to head Stats if you doubt my comment.
That is a great point. They could very well be tired. The timeout usage most definitely needs to be fine-tuned. Those timeouts could have been used to swing the momentum in the last half of the Bulls game.
Data uncertainty is no excuse Line up rotation is a problem,no worries about Zach needs real big man coach ,more playing time to devolp and adust Jenkins wants to play small ball too much and plays jake too much marus smart is who concearns me along with brandon clarke
Zach is a rookie he has to earn it. GG and especially VINCE had to earn it. He got to put in that work. The grizz are missing Dillon Brooks as well tbh. Dillon gave the team swagger and the intimidation factor. Teams knew they were going to have to play when Dillon came on to the court. If the Grizz could tone down all the crazy bs he was doing we should have kept him.
Championship teams have a swagger, attitude about them.. a bit of ego.. a bit of hunger about being the best.. Grizzlies don't show that except for Ja and Smart. Jaren and Des couldn't win much without Ja last year and came up short again vs Bulls. They are only good complimentary players but not superstars that make super teams and winning possible at the highest level. Smart is handicapped by poor offensive skills. This team needs some wing player that is good offensive (incl. 3 point shooting) and defense and can be a starter. Ja, Smart, and Jaren are not good 3 point shooters and despite showing their summer workouts about 3 pt shooting, when the season comes around, they are just bad. I would rather play Huff all the time next to Jaren.. Edey is looking like a bad investment, is so slow, doesn't hustle for rebounds, buttery fingers, gets outmuscled for positioning under the rim.. Huff/Jaren should play center by committee. Smart/BC/Kennard should be traded for some good wing player (not the ones in Brooklyn) that has winning mindset Teams probably don't fear Memphis. Championship team's are those who are feared and visiting teams mark it as loss
Zach edey looks slow and scared but I'm hoping that he just needs to adjust to the speed of the nba. Also, Taylor jenkins needs to run some plays for him. I do think Yves Missi and/or Kelel Ware would've been better picks
Good grief we needed another Steven Adams at minimum and between Jenkins and a foul learning curve he’s been judged way too soon. Jenkins is off on some weird over coaching thing playing too many players, not playing him along side of starters enough mostly because they let players rest at the beginning of the freaking season.
The eye test kinda tell it all. He doesn't have confidence. Also he is slow. I mean what do you expect from a 7'-4" center? He going to be slow regardless, even though the media has pimped him up to be faster than he really is. Now the reality is setting in. He needs to play his game, which is in the post, and grab rebounds. He needs to learn to keep the ball high when he catches the ball like Pau Gasol, not letting it stripped away. Also he needs to anticipate where the rebound will be, instead of chasing the rebounds. He is slow, so people are beating him to the rebound spots.
@@davidpark2509lol that’s a stupid comparison. A. I’m not convinced he is, b. Jokic may be slow but he’s also the best and most dominant player in the league. Why in the world would you ever see them in the same sentence. Jokic impacts every aspect of the game. Eden is slow, clogs the paint, and honestly isn’t as good of rebounder as I thought he’d be. For him to effective since this isn’t the nba from 15 years ago they need to bring him off the bench to give him touches because he’s not in the pecking order with JA,JJ, Bane etc. He clogs the paint for those guys so again might as well use him with the bench units if you want him to play his game
Im not concern about our team I love the pace that we are playing and I also love our depth.Jenkins will get it together.I feel that he is feeling the rotation out on when to play the players he have.Also once the stars get into game shape we will be good to go on a winning streak run.Mark my word we are going to be okay.The only concern i have is rebounding.#GoGrizzlies
He just doesn’t have good hands and isn’t using his size to jump to the ball when the balls being passed to him or when it’s coming off the rim. He still seems like a good player and is improving, and maybe his hesitation has everything to do with inexperience or awkwardness in the speed of the pro game, but he’s waiting for the ball to come to him. I would love to see him soon push through with his legs and continue to move towards the ball
@ watching the games, when their guards are driving and trying to do a mini scoop dish to him out of a lane drive he is getting to the ball slower than his defender or sometimes just dropping what seems like a very easy pass to catch. These are going to have to be the same type of a lot of the passes he’ll receive in his career, because that’s where he’ll be most effective with the increased pace of the NBA. Using the gravity of Ja to suck in the defense after Ja gets going in the paint downhill and then dropping it off or even a bail out pass to a cutting 7’4” man with momentum. They’re trying to do these passes and he hasn’t adjusted to either the pace, nor the speed of NBA defense yet. Which I believe he will adjust to soon, but right now he just seems like he’s not taking the extra 2-4 steps needed to receive a pass when coming towards ball near the elbow and not taking the extra 1-2 steps needed when trailing diagonally behind a driving teammate to catch the ball in a position to dunk or go up strong quickly. This is gonna deter the guards from feeding him, because they don’t want to turn the ball over
@@reillybrittain9591 I've seen every single game and not seeing the same thing you are. Edey has been doing what he's asked to do. He battles for nearly every rebound but the ball bounces the other way and he is doubled alot for rebounds. He maybe gets the ball 2x a game on the block. And when he does the pick and roll his teammates do not really look for him. Seems like everyone else has free rain to do what they want except Edey, which is understandable because he is a rookie, but the most dominant guy in college can't even use his skill just because Grizzlies want to play like everyone else in the NBA. They should of never drafted him if they just want to play one way the whole time. I'm sure some other team will use him correctly, trade the big fella before you ruin him.
@ He does battle and he works very hard and he has a lot of skill. I’m not trying to say he’s not going to be great. I’ve watched all of the reg season summer league and preseason games and I see he’s trying very hard, but it is true that his final steps towards most passed balls or rebounds are too late or just not there. I’m not talking about the block, block - back to the basket post play hardly exists in the league anymore, and when we do feed him on the block his hook shot has not been as efficient as it was in summer league or college play, and the NBA just doesn’t do back to basket kind of motions anymore. We completely changed our offensive scheme this year, and the scheme we have now is especially built for drive and kick and drive and dump. His success depends on him getting a lot better at coming towards the ball in a drop off pass or high post situation and getting a lot better at catching these pro speed passes. I have seen him drop or not catch soooo many passes where there was a clear pass lane and he either didn’t move his feet quick enough towards the ball, wasn’t ready for it, or just didn’t catch it. NBA defenses are insanely fast now. They’re less physical than they used to be, but so incredibly fast and they’re going to try to cover and smother Edey in the pick and roll and most of the defenders are going to be really good and fast at doing that. He’s got to learn how to come towards a pass on any spot on the floor where he’d be looking to get the ball, and he has to get better at catching it and his reaction speed. It’s just the truth, I know we’re not feeding him on the block much, but his patent hook shot isn’t working as well when we do, and back to the basket post-ups aren’t efficient enough anymore in general in the NBA. Don’t even bring up the Shaq argument, that was 20 years ago, and shaq had a good ball handle and better footwork than Edey.
@@reillybrittain9591 grizzlies have gotten the lead and has lost the lead praying 1 style. Just trade Edey so I can cheer for him on another team! Dropped sooo many balls? He hardly gets the ball so I don't know how many is soo many to you when the don't look for him in pick and roll or when he seals defenders down low. Shaq was my favorite player back in the days and I never brought up his name. Just sad that NBA guys forgot how to make an easy entry pass. Yes, compared to guards he is slow, but he has actually shown that he is very mobile for his size. The coaches just do not want to use him and that shows with the minutes he is getting and the plays they keep running.
When we actually see our coaches and team give him a real shot to gain confidence and develop but see no progress
The nba has been ruined and they don't big men anymore
They won't pass him the ball but they rather jack up 3 pointers and they can't even shoot that good
6/5 in 14 min for a rookie nothing to turn your nose up at
why is the team hurt and season just started. We always hurt or feeling "soreness" smh
The pace is too fast, the defensive style is to always close out. The offense is so uncreative. Its always drive and kick. Bane always goes flying and falling just to get 2 points. That gives the players so much wear and tear.
@@pineapplepizza8656 agreed
I wonder if the coaches will let Edey use his skills and dominant stature! Right now all they got him doing is just setting picks, running around near the basket trying to boxout for rebounds. Let him post more and draw fouls. You are ruining his growth!
lol that’s not how the nba is played. No one is ever going to feed him and give him 10 second post touches. It’s a space and pace league with the stars controlling everything and he’s not 1,2, or 3 on the pecking order of touches.
If you want him to get post touches you have to play him with the second unit because they’re not prioritizing lane clogging post ups over JA, JJ, and Bane. This was always going to be an issue because no one wants 6 seconds of backing someone down and clogging the lane in the modern nba. Bringing him off the bench is the only way he’ll get any consistent post touches or else he’s going to have to learn to block shots, rebound, and be a lob threat and thrive in that role. This isn’t 10-15 years ago.
@MayorWilliesSideChick4prez ok, thanks for your opinion
You guys are implying the problem is Edey, when the problem is the coaching.
It’s 4 games, not only does he need to learn to play with his team, this is the first he is playing against these teams and centers, so it’s a learning process
During the preseason, he got both minutes and touches and dominated. Now, he’s getting neither and you’re worried about him? Get him on the floor & feed him!
lol that’s not how the nba is played. No one is ever going to feed him and give him 10 second post touches. It’s a space and pace league with the stars controlling everything and he’s not 1,2, or 3 on the pecking order of touches.
If you want him to get post touches you have to play him with the second unit because they’re not prioritizing lane clogging post ups over JA, JJ, and Bane. This was always going to be an issue because no one wants 6 seconds of backing someone down and clogging the lane in the modern nba. Bringing him off the bench is the only way he’ll get any consistent post touches or else he’s going to have to learn to block shots, rebound, and be a lob threat and thrive in that role. This isn’t 10-15 years ago.
LET HIM FUCKIN PLAY!!!!
Give him the fucking ball, bro
@@Zytate lol that’s not how the nba is played. No one is ever going to feed him and give him 10 second post touches. It’s a space and pace league with the stars controlling everything and he’s not 1,2, or 3 on the pecking order of touches.
If you want him to get post touches you have to play him with the second unit because they’re not prioritizing lane clogging post ups over JA, JJ, and Bane. This was always going to be an issue because no one wants 6 seconds of backing someone down and clogging the lane in the modern nba. Bringing him off the bench is the only way he’ll get any consistent post touches or else he’s going to have to learn to block shots, rebound, and be a lob threat and thrive in that role. This isn’t 10-15 years ago.
I have watched all the Memphis games with Edey. What I am seeing right now is you can see Edey is still thinking rather than reacting which eventually Zach will learn and improve. What disappoints me is the lack of Memphis utilizing Zach's post skills. In the preseason fans were excited to see Zach possibly bringing the Big man back to the NBA. If teams are going to go small like the Bulls you punish them by going to Zach in the post on offense. As Joe and Damichael point out Head Coach Jenkins blinked as soon as the Bulls went small. The NBA Hierarchy seems unwilling to try and change the game. I watch NBA games and see player's drive to the basket unchallenged and I think where are the rim protector's?
Not worried about Edey. And the Grizzlies don't have their best players on the court in the 2nd half.
We had a big lead in every game we played and are 2-2. Why cant this team hold leads when they go up big???
Random thought: Anybody notice Jenkins hitting the dance moves with Ja before games this year?
It's simple to fix you just need to play Zach Edey let him figure it out on the floor not on the bench then he will improve. Coach is not utilizing Zach, the most dominant guy on the court. Coach is doing one thing absolutely perfect, and that's killing zachs confidence. Team needs to get zach involved pass the ball to him let him cook
I hate when nba coaches do this..they did this to wemby early last season as well
I like how yall don’t talk about how fucking bad Marcus smart is, if Dillion was playing this bad yall would be all over it but somehow the local media is giving bumpy face a pass
I don't understand why Clingan keeps being brought up. Clingan was drafted before Zach Edey so it's a moot point. As for criticism by some in this thread Zach has played FOUR GAMES. BTW in College last season Zach Edey abused Ware. Ware's game may translate better to the NBA but last year against IU Zach dominated Ware and IU was blown out in both games. Go look up their head to head Stats if you doubt my comment.
Donovan Clingon 4 games 4.3/5.8, Zach 7.8/5, so tell me again that Clingon is better?
I still believe in Zach but he is starting, Donovan is not.
@ same minutes though, so actually Clingon against second wave should be better than Zach against starters
@@ek1743I’d agree with the notion that Zach is facing starters and clingan no, but time will tell.
Joe i don’t want to hear it
They need to give edey more FG attempts frfr.
That is a great point. They could very well be tired. The timeout usage most definitely needs to be fine-tuned. Those timeouts could have been used to swing the momentum in the last half of the Bulls game.
Of course, Joe is going to wonder four games into the season. The kid up in Portland hasn't been great. Give them time.
Grizzlies playing perimeter D look like 8yr olds playing soccer.
Mane people out here acting like Edey is Hasheem Thabeet?!? It’s the pace of play, not getting him the ball early in easy to score areas
If you want to be worried about something worry about these second half collapses, is it rotation?
Him and Wells are in the rookie scoring leaders. Don’t know what yall are talking about
Data uncertainty is no excuse Line up rotation is a problem,no worries about Zach needs real big man coach ,more playing time to devolp and adust Jenkins wants to play small ball too much and plays jake too much marus smart is who concearns me along with brandon clarke
Zach is a rookie he has to earn it. GG and especially VINCE had to earn it. He got to put in that work. The grizz are missing Dillon Brooks as well tbh. Dillon gave the team swagger and the intimidation factor. Teams knew they were going to have to play when Dillon came on to the court. If the Grizz could tone down all the crazy bs he was doing we should have kept him.
Just noticed that Ziaire Williams is making 66% of his 3PT shots. 4 for 5 last night. Why can he hit 3s all of a sudden? Contract year?
And they are let hik play to his strenght.
He's been a decent 3 pt shooter. His main problem is Defense.
Championship teams have a swagger, attitude about them.. a bit of ego.. a bit of hunger about being the best.. Grizzlies don't show that except for Ja and Smart. Jaren and Des couldn't win much without Ja last year and came up short again vs Bulls. They are only good complimentary players but not superstars that make super teams and winning possible at the highest level. Smart is handicapped by poor offensive skills. This team needs some wing player that is good offensive (incl. 3 point shooting) and defense and can be a starter. Ja, Smart, and Jaren are not good 3 point shooters and despite showing their summer workouts about 3 pt shooting, when the season comes around, they are just bad. I would rather play Huff all the time next to Jaren.. Edey is looking like a bad investment, is so slow, doesn't hustle for rebounds, buttery fingers, gets outmuscled for positioning under the rim.. Huff/Jaren should play center by committee. Smart/BC/Kennard should be traded for some good wing player (not the ones in Brooklyn) that has winning mindset
Teams probably don't fear Memphis. Championship team's are those who are feared and visiting teams mark it as loss
Ohh ok. Great state Damicheal. Didnt know that
Maybe they need to run a dozen more laps in practice to get in better shape.
Edey needs to work with Zbo and/or Marc.
Zach edey looks slow and scared but I'm hoping that he just needs to adjust to the speed of the nba. Also, Taylor jenkins needs to run some plays for him.
I do think Yves Missi and/or Kelel Ware would've been better picks
Good grief we needed another Steven Adams at minimum and between Jenkins and a foul learning curve he’s been judged way too soon. Jenkins is off on some weird over coaching thing playing too many players, not playing him along side of starters enough mostly because they let players rest at the beginning of the freaking season.
I see why Boston got rid of m smart bring a nother player in and win the championship
Give him the ball on the blocks becaue why the hell yall drafting him
The eye test kinda tell it all. He doesn't have confidence. Also he is slow. I mean what do you expect from a 7'-4" center? He going to be slow regardless, even though the media has pimped him up to be faster than he really is. Now the reality is setting in. He needs to play his game, which is in the post, and grab rebounds. He needs to learn to keep the ball high when he catches the ball like Pau Gasol, not letting it stripped away. Also he needs to anticipate where the rebound will be, instead of chasing the rebounds. He is slow, so people are beating him to the rebound spots.
Hes faster than jokic hell be fine
@@davidpark2509lol that’s a stupid comparison. A. I’m not convinced he is, b. Jokic may be slow but he’s also the best and most dominant player in the league. Why in the world would you ever see them in the same sentence. Jokic impacts every aspect of the game. Eden is slow, clogs the paint, and honestly isn’t as good of rebounder as I thought he’d be. For him to effective since this isn’t the nba from 15 years ago they need to bring him off the bench to give him touches because he’s not in the pecking order with JA,JJ, Bane etc. He clogs the paint for those guys so again might as well use him with the bench units if you want him to play his game
Im not concern about our team I love the pace that we are playing and I also love our depth.Jenkins will get it together.I feel that he is feeling the rotation out on when to play the players he have.Also once the stars get into game shape we will be good to go on a winning streak run.Mark my word we are going to be okay.The only concern i have is rebounding.#GoGrizzlies
Y’all wreckless… 😂😂😂
He just doesn’t have good hands and isn’t using his size to jump to the ball when the balls being passed to him or when it’s coming off the rim. He still seems like a good player and is improving, and maybe his hesitation has everything to do with inexperience or awkwardness in the speed of the pro game, but he’s waiting for the ball to come to him. I would love to see him soon push through with his legs and continue to move towards the ball
They gotta pass him the ball
@ watching the games, when their guards are driving and trying to do a mini scoop dish to him out of a lane drive he is getting to the ball slower than his defender or sometimes just dropping what seems like a very easy pass to catch. These are going to have to be the same type of a lot of the passes he’ll receive in his career, because that’s where he’ll be most effective with the increased pace of the NBA. Using the gravity of Ja to suck in the defense after Ja gets going in the paint downhill and then dropping it off or even a bail out pass to a cutting 7’4” man with momentum. They’re trying to do these passes and he hasn’t adjusted to either the pace, nor the speed of NBA defense yet. Which I believe he will adjust to soon, but right now he just seems like he’s not taking the extra 2-4 steps needed to receive a pass when coming towards ball near the elbow and not taking the extra 1-2 steps needed when trailing diagonally behind a driving teammate to catch the ball in a position to dunk or go up strong quickly. This is gonna deter the guards from feeding him, because they don’t want to turn the ball over
@@reillybrittain9591 I've seen every single game and not seeing the same thing you are. Edey has been doing what he's asked to do. He battles for nearly every rebound but the ball bounces the other way and he is doubled alot for rebounds. He maybe gets the ball 2x a game on the block. And when he does the pick and roll his teammates do not really look for him. Seems like everyone else has free rain to do what they want except Edey, which is understandable because he is a rookie, but the most dominant guy in college can't even use his skill just because Grizzlies want to play like everyone else in the NBA. They should of never drafted him if they just want to play one way the whole time. I'm sure some other team will use him correctly, trade the big fella before you ruin him.
@ He does battle and he works very hard and he has a lot of skill. I’m not trying to say he’s not going to be great. I’ve watched all of the reg season summer league and preseason games and I see he’s trying very hard, but it is true that his final steps towards most passed balls or rebounds are too late or just not there. I’m not talking about the block, block - back to the basket post play hardly exists in the league anymore, and when we do feed him on the block his hook shot has not been as efficient as it was in summer league or college play, and the NBA just doesn’t do back to basket kind of motions anymore. We completely changed our offensive scheme this year, and the scheme we have now is especially built for drive and kick and drive and dump. His success depends on him getting a lot better at coming towards the ball in a drop off pass or high post situation and getting a lot better at catching these pro speed passes. I have seen him drop or not catch soooo many passes where there was a clear pass lane and he either didn’t move his feet quick enough towards the ball, wasn’t ready for it, or just didn’t catch it. NBA defenses are insanely fast now. They’re less physical than they used to be, but so incredibly fast and they’re going to try to cover and smother Edey in the pick and roll and most of the defenders are going to be really good and fast at doing that. He’s got to learn how to come towards a pass on any spot on the floor where he’d be looking to get the ball, and he has to get better at catching it and his reaction speed. It’s just the truth, I know we’re not feeding him on the block much, but his patent hook shot isn’t working as well when we do, and back to the basket post-ups aren’t efficient enough anymore in general in the NBA. Don’t even bring up the Shaq argument, that was 20 years ago, and shaq had a good ball handle and better footwork than Edey.
@@reillybrittain9591 grizzlies have gotten the lead and has lost the lead praying 1 style. Just trade Edey so I can cheer for him on another team! Dropped sooo many balls? He hardly gets the ball so I don't know how many is soo many to you when the don't look for him in pick and roll or when he seals defenders down low. Shaq was my favorite player back in the days and I never brought up his name. Just sad that NBA guys forgot how to make an easy entry pass. Yes, compared to guards he is slow, but he has actually shown that he is very mobile for his size. The coaches just do not want to use him and that shows with the minutes he is getting and the plays they keep running.
SOLID DEFENSE INTO SOLID OFFENSE FOR MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES GO GO GO GRIZZLIES TENNESSEE TEAM CHEMISTRY 💯percent🔥⚡🔒😈✅🎯🏀🔫🏆💪🧬🐻
He needs to start playing better or he will come off the bench. He is out of place out there.
I personally think Edey’s ceiling in a Zubac, but it’s a long way from him developing there
He will be a top 7 center in the league
We need stop guys like Joe from covering the team get Clingan tip out your mouth you was wrong Joe