New Machine.... $1,850.00 USD Retro Fit Kit....... $1,400.00 USD Kit contains New X Y assembly, New Z Slide With Ball Screw. You use your Z Column, HeadStock, Motor Post, Spindle Motor, Stepper motors, Stepper Motor Tubes Etc. A video showing how to assemble the Z Slide will be published shortly.
Hello John I talked to Craig over a year ago when I send him some examples of another outfit that had done a successful Taig ball screw conversion . I like to think I got the ball rolling on this and am now interested in a complete X & Y table setup and the pieces needed to convert the Z axis also . any chance of you posting the part numbers and price . thank you
Is the mill available without the headstock as I am thinking of mounting my own? Also, I would like to know if it is possible use my own servo motors instead of the factory-supplied steppers?
John, thanks for the reply, That is what I thought. It looks as if the Y nut is going to be closer to the column than the Y stepper than the 1/2x20 screw setup and you would run out of screw if you spaced the stepper motor out by 3/4. But, couldn't I just relocate the nut closer to the stepper to gain the extra movement (along with the appropriate spacers) ? I guess I'll find out once I get the new setup. I am finishing my order in the next couple minutes with Nick.Don
John, my conversion kit arrived about an hour and a half ago. I got a lot more hardware than I expected. I was expecting to use my Y base, but it was included also. The new version of the base looks better than either base I now have. Much sturdier. The way covers are welcome also. Now to figure my limit switch scheme.However, the Nema 23 mounts were not part of the package. Not a big deal though, I've got a request in to Nick Carter to order me out a set.
I forgot to add that the kit was very well packaged. The box was banged up curtsey of UPS, but the packaging protected everything. It's going to be hard to concentrate on putting up Xmas decorations with my new toy setting in the shop just waiting for me. A last question, what In/oz motors do I need with this conversion?Don
First.... The 23 mounts do come with our CR & CNC pkgs. NOT the Retrofit. In a retrofit it is assumed you are re-fitting a CNC "V" thread mill to ball screws. Next..... 200In/oz should work fine. Finally... This is the instruction video for the "Kit". Have Fun:) ua-cam.com/video/tLMEm2fRfjw/v-deo.html
If I had one of those I would _never_ get any work done because I would just spend all day pushing the table around to see and feel those lead screws spinning. Mmmmmmmm...
No you wouldn't....the stepper motors have a braking effect and would hold the table in position when they are switched on.....that is, if you are in a CNC mode......if you are just using the machine in a manual mode you would need to have a braking restrictor on each screw to prevent the table running away under pressure of the cutter feed. The beauty of the screws is that they have no backlash hence their climb milling capability and are exact in their incremental positioning. BTW, I'm not a big fan of aluminium for a machine build, but it can work with caution..
bout freaking time.... These ball screw versions are going to easily over come the clamping force available with the stock taig frame and it is going to go out of tram so to speak, quickly. Mine slipped until I took it apart, properly prepped it and tig welded it solid. I have NEVER once needed to tilt my taig over but have had to re-tram it about 10 times due to it slipping when I'm running a 3/8 4 flute end mill on steel. Not meant for that? WHY NOT? the limiting factor is frame slipping. No other issues. Ball Screws = GOOD, Ball Screws with welded solid frame = BETTER. Guys who buy this ball screw version will soon see. Use it at the top end of what it can do and you will find out, just like I did, that you need to weld your frame solid. What Taig really needs to do is just accept reality and offer a solid square column mill and leave this design to the light duty mill category. I know exactly what taig's response will be, I been a professional machinist from 1998 on and used many types of manual and CNC mills, make no mistake I really like my Taig Mill, but I HAD to weld her up to be able to keep using it on steel. Aluminum, works fine as long as you take lighter cuts. Rev her up and try to do your aluminum faster and same thing, goes out of tram. I can even say this, if a solid square frame solid column version come out I would probably step up and actually buy one. As of now, I'm planning on building one with large 4 to 6" square solid cast iron, or maybe with solid aluminum with the column bolted. I have a much larger manual bench top mill out in the garage but love working on the taig as it is CNC and it is inside where it is warm haha. Sorry Taig dudes, don't mean to be Mr. Debbie downer, this is just some customer feedback/suggestions for what I want to see and issues I had and what I had to finally do to fix it. Bob
Dear Debbie Downer, You can make a gasket out of super fine emery or use two pieces of yellow page(Phone Book) paper between the Z column and the XY base. This will increase the friction level. Your statement......."These ball screw versions are going to easily over come the clamping force available with the stock taig frame and it is going to go out of tram so to speak, quickly." Unless you have ball screws on a Taig Mill and can submit actual data your comments are pure speculation. A "professional machinest" never speculates.
Well I mean with less binding on the lead screw since they are replaced with ball screws more torque to side load and over come the friction of the mating surfaces. I know if I slow my feed rates I'm fine but if I am cutting steel and I got a lot to cut I always would end up getting to that edge where it was fine, then it wasn't. I think this effect would be magnified with ball screws as there would be instant acceleration on feeds and that could cause a quick rise in side ways torque the z column would experience during certain cuts. I cause my own problems by increasing the feed rates and going faster until.... woops. Your suggestion to place something in there could work. I just got frustrated and fixed it permanently. As for speculation, I have done many jobs where we thought we had it figured out, according to the engineers it was supposed to be fine then we ran the job and had to make a lot of adjustments. Then at my home shop I have backyard engineered things, basically speculated on what would work. It ether worked or not and if not, mods were made and I went forward. I love my taig mill, I just had to weld it to keep it from moving on me and I would like it a lot more if it where a solid square column design. It works now though so I'm good to go. Just replaced all my lead screws so I'm good for another few years. After I start getting slop in them again I am going to ball screws. If you search there are a lot of people who have had issues same as me, I'm not an isolated case. Just wish for a better factory solution and heavy duty but same size taig mill, with square column and ballscrews. At least you finally did the ball screws. Thank you. You moved forward and gave us the ball screws as many have wanted.
Many have solved the "Tram" issue by stoning the mating surfaces and using 30 min. epoxy. Also using "short" end mills and keeping the center of gravity as low as possible will help. When we "sweep a table"at the shop(You call it tramming) even our bridgeport's get out of square with too heavy a cut. For us .0002 is out of square. Our goal is quality at a reasonable price. To ship a permanent Z to the XY would add $400.00 to the list price. Also.... 65 out of 100 wanted a movable Z column. Mr. Daley (Our Owner) worked exclusively for NASA and JPL before starting Taig Tools. We are held to a very high standard. If you study "Feeds and Speeds" in the machinists handbook you will always make a good cut. I like your term "We thought we had it figured out". Mr. Daley says "Do the math, study the metallurgy, measure 3 times, Have some one check your work and THEN cut. With NASA the raw material in the palm of your hand was routinely worth 2 or 3 thousand dollars. Your inference that we are a bunch of hacks is incorrect.
Once again the makers are going the cheapie route and making a manual mill into a CNC mill.....the making of a silk purse from a Sow's ear syndrome.......why don't they redo the whole machine, go the whole hog and use iron with linear rails ……...it would be a market leader once it's up and running. I expect they don't have facilities that are capable of machining iron or don't like the graphite mess that comes from working with iron......hey, why not use steel fabrication….problem solved.
New Machine.... $1,850.00 USD
Retro Fit Kit....... $1,400.00 USD
Kit contains New X Y assembly, New Z Slide With Ball Screw.
You use your Z Column, HeadStock, Motor Post, Spindle Motor, Stepper motors, Stepper Motor Tubes Etc.
A video showing how to assemble the Z Slide will be published shortly.
Thanks John - Pretty much the same thing Craig said .
Wow.... It is a beautiful machine!
I have a DSLS 3000 and I was wondering if my stepper motors would be strong enough to avoid the climb cutting push back?
Yes, Go slower with steel and take smaller cuts. However regular mill to .050 within size and climb cut the .050 for a great finish:)
Are we gonna see a factory ball screw version of the TAIGTURN CNC lathe? That would be awesome!
Yes, and it is ready to ship today! Call or email Taig tools for price:)
Hello John
I talked to Craig over a year ago when I send him some examples of another outfit that had done a successful Taig ball screw conversion . I like to think I got the ball rolling on this and am now interested in a complete X & Y table setup and the pieces needed to convert the Z axis also .
any chance of you posting the part numbers and price .
thank you
You'll have to talk to Craig or email about part #s and price.
Will Do
Is the mill available without the headstock as I am thinking of mounting my own? Also, I would like to know if it is possible use my own servo motors instead of the factory-supplied steppers?
YES :)
Is this option advertised on the website? If not, how much would this cost?
John, can you extend the Y travel with the ball screw like you can with the 1/2x20 screw?
No
John, thanks for the reply, That is what I thought. It looks as if the Y nut is going to be closer to the column than the Y stepper than the 1/2x20 screw setup and you would run out of screw if you spaced the stepper motor out by 3/4. But, couldn't I just relocate the nut closer to the stepper to gain the extra movement (along with the appropriate spacers) ? I guess I'll find out once I get the new setup. I am finishing my order in the next couple minutes with Nick.Don
In the new setup the headstock is extended 1/2" closer toward the stepper. You will enjoy the ball screw machine very much:)
One more question, are the stepper couplings included
Yes
Gah! upgrade kit? trade in program? I need this.
Yes! Contact Craig at taig tools.
Does the three axis conversion come with all three nema 23 mounts?
Yes
John, my conversion kit arrived about an hour and a half ago. I got a lot more hardware than I expected. I was expecting to use my Y base, but it was included also. The new version of the base looks better than either base I now have. Much sturdier. The way covers are welcome also. Now to figure my limit switch scheme.However, the Nema 23 mounts were not part of the package. Not a big deal though, I've got a request in to Nick Carter to order me out a set.
I forgot to add that the kit was very well packaged. The box was banged up curtsey of UPS, but the packaging protected everything. It's going to be hard to concentrate on putting up Xmas decorations with my new toy setting in the shop just waiting for me. A last question, what In/oz motors do I need with this conversion?Don
First.... The 23 mounts do come with our CR & CNC pkgs. NOT the Retrofit. In a retrofit it is assumed you are re-fitting a CNC "V" thread mill to ball screws. Next..... 200In/oz should work fine. Finally... This is the instruction video for the "Kit". Have Fun:)
ua-cam.com/video/tLMEm2fRfjw/v-deo.html
John, thanks for the quick response. One last question, Do the ball screws require lubrication now and then and if so what oil/grease do I use.
4:16 and convertional milling not push part? xD
If I had one of those I would _never_ get any work done because I would just spend all day pushing the table around to see and feel those lead screws spinning. Mmmmmmmm...
No you wouldn't....the stepper motors have a braking effect and would hold the table in position when they are switched on.....that is, if you are in a CNC mode......if you are just using the machine in a manual mode you would need to have a braking restrictor on each screw to prevent the table running away under pressure of the cutter feed. The beauty of the screws is that they have no backlash hence their climb milling capability and are exact in their incremental positioning. BTW, I'm not a big fan of aluminium for a machine build, but it can work with caution..
bout freaking time....
These ball screw versions are going to easily over come the clamping force available with the stock taig frame and it is going to go out of tram so to speak, quickly.
Mine slipped until I took it apart, properly prepped it and tig welded it solid. I have NEVER once needed to tilt my taig over but have had to re-tram it about 10 times due to it slipping when I'm running a 3/8 4 flute end mill on steel. Not meant for that? WHY NOT? the limiting factor is frame slipping. No other issues.
Ball Screws = GOOD, Ball Screws with welded solid frame = BETTER.
Guys who buy this ball screw version will soon see. Use it at the top end of what it can do and you will find out, just like I did, that you need to weld your frame solid.
What Taig really needs to do is just accept reality and offer a solid square column mill and leave this design to the light duty mill category.
I know exactly what taig's response will be, I been a professional machinist from 1998 on and used many types of manual and CNC mills, make no mistake I really like my Taig Mill, but I HAD to weld her up to be able to keep using it on steel. Aluminum, works fine as long as you take lighter cuts. Rev her up and try to do your aluminum faster and same thing, goes out of tram.
I can even say this, if a solid square frame solid column version come out I would probably step up and actually buy one. As of now, I'm planning on building one with large 4 to 6" square solid cast iron, or maybe with solid aluminum with the column bolted. I have a much larger manual bench top mill out in the garage but love working on the taig as it is CNC and it is inside where it is warm haha.
Sorry Taig dudes, don't mean to be Mr. Debbie downer, this is just some customer feedback/suggestions for what I want to see and issues I had and what I had to finally do to fix it.
Bob
Dear Debbie Downer,
You can make a gasket out of super fine emery or use two pieces of yellow page(Phone Book) paper between the Z column and the XY base. This will increase the friction level. Your statement......."These ball screw versions are going to easily over come the clamping force available with the stock taig frame and it is going to go out of tram so to speak, quickly." Unless you have ball screws on a Taig Mill and can submit actual data your comments are pure speculation. A "professional machinest" never speculates.
Well I mean with less binding on the lead screw since they are replaced with ball screws more torque to side load and over come the friction of the mating surfaces. I know if I slow my feed rates I'm fine but if I am cutting steel and I got a lot to cut I always would end up getting to that edge where it was fine, then it wasn't.
I think this effect would be magnified with ball screws as there would be instant acceleration on feeds and that could cause a quick rise in side ways torque the z column would experience during certain cuts. I cause my own problems by increasing the feed rates and going faster until.... woops.
Your suggestion to place something in there could work. I just got frustrated and fixed it permanently. As for speculation, I have done many jobs where we thought we had it figured out, according to the engineers it was supposed to be fine then we ran the job and had to make a lot of adjustments. Then at my home shop I have backyard engineered things, basically speculated on what would work. It ether worked or not and if not, mods were made and I went forward.
I love my taig mill, I just had to weld it to keep it from moving on me and I would like it a lot more if it where a solid square column design. It works now though so I'm good to go. Just replaced all my lead screws so I'm good for another few years. After I start getting slop in them again I am going to ball screws.
If you search there are a lot of people who have had issues same as me, I'm not an isolated case. Just wish for a better factory solution and heavy duty but same size taig mill, with square column and ballscrews. At least you finally did the ball screws. Thank you. You moved forward and gave us the ball screws as many have wanted.
Many have solved the "Tram" issue by stoning the mating surfaces and using 30 min. epoxy.
Also using "short" end mills and keeping the center of gravity as low as possible will help. When we "sweep a table"at the shop(You call it tramming) even our bridgeport's get out of square with too heavy a cut. For us .0002 is out of square. Our goal is quality at a reasonable price. To ship a permanent Z to the XY would add $400.00 to the list price. Also.... 65 out of 100 wanted a movable Z column. Mr. Daley (Our Owner) worked exclusively for NASA and JPL before starting Taig Tools. We are held to a very high standard. If you study "Feeds and Speeds" in the machinists handbook you will always make a good cut. I like your term "We thought we had it figured out". Mr. Daley says "Do the math, study the metallurgy, measure 3 times, Have some one check your work and THEN cut. With NASA the raw material in the palm of your hand was routinely worth 2 or 3 thousand dollars. Your inference that we are a bunch of hacks is incorrect.
I was just at your website and could not find the price.
Email or call ask for Craig :)
Once again the makers are going the cheapie route and making a manual mill into a CNC mill.....the making of a silk purse from a Sow's ear syndrome.......why don't they redo the whole machine, go the whole hog and use iron with linear rails ……...it would be a market leader once it's up and running. I expect they don't have facilities that are capable of machining iron or don't like the graphite mess that comes from working with iron......hey, why not use steel fabrication….problem solved.