From a Son of Malice to a Son of Angron, I agree the setting isn't the same. The Daemonculaba was peak. It was straight out of a death metal album. I want horror to return. I want to feel the fear that compels the loyalists to surrender to the ruinous powers. The loyalists know what happens when they're captured. I want to see them do everything in their power to fight it, and I want to see what happens when they have no choice but to kneel before the dark gods. The horror makes seeing friendly astartes an actual relief
There are still horror elements coming out for the grimdark universe and it still definitely is grimdark. Choosing one of the most shock value things as a baseline is pretty unfounded however because even before that there was still horror elements, and after the deamonculaba there are still a multitude and plethora of horror entries. Saying Warhammer 40K is not grimdark anymore is pure unfounded opinion.
As Warhammer 40K moves through mediums, it's to be expected for it to get somewhat less basement dwelling fan favorite and a bit more accessible. I'm so curious about Henry Cavill's version of it and how much of the grimdark he can capture without being off putting to people who don't know about the franchise. There needs to be a starting point for the stories, but WH is so massive in scale that I don't know what it could be.
im assuming they'll start w the dark age of technology, like some 6 minute intro w light worldbuilding and the shamans sacrificing themselves to create the emperor, then prolly a timeskip to 40k
@@JBendyfromdawic but that's the thing, since the canon is so loose in WH40K, I don't know if a more organic narrative would be better. Have it be like Warhammer Space Marine 2 at face value, all power armor and alien invasion just to layer by layer start hinting that this is actually all fucked up
It’s definitely getter softer. It’ll end up where Disney Star Wars is now down the line. I remember an old short story about Kharn and the World Eaters, where one of the world eaters gets crippled charging towards enemy lines. Crippled and in a no man’s land, the world eater roars, “blood for the blood god!” And saws off his own head in impotent rage. He offers his own blood to Khorne, and his own head for the Skull Throne. I can’t imagine stories like that anymore. Too many “mainstream” nerds are entering the fandom now (magic fans, Star Wars fans, etc). The fandom used to be more grunge, more metal heads back in the day - GW literally licensed metal albums. The modern fans will shift the setting eventually. I just wonder whether us veterans will still recognize it then. P.S - Loyalist Space Marine stories vary in grim dark. The “nicer” chapters (Ultramarines, Crimson Fists) have generally likeable and relatable characters who experience the grim dark world around them. The darker chapters (Iron Hands, Dark Angels) tend to be very grim dark in and of themselves. Read: Wrath of Iron, Helsreach, anything to do with Flesh Tearers…
5 днів тому+1
Sort of ? Do a 1000 psykers still get sacrificed every day to the emperor? Are there flagelants ? Is there a Tyranid fleet on every corner of the galaxy? I thought so...
I think for the most part 40k is still grimdark I say for the most part because the main aspect that sticks out are the returning loyalist primarchs The themes of 40k have been decadence of past empires and a spiral of stuff constantly getting worse and worse When other factions get new additions these elements either worsen the state of the faction or increase its self-destructive abilities When chaos or tyrranids increase in power and numbers they are like a burning forest, feeding this fire only increases how bad stuff is in the galaxy Loyalst primarchs dont do this, they help bring back hope and bring back some stability to the imperium and specific factions under the imperium. This doesnt feel to me like grimdark or 40k because there is no evil, its just an anti-hero trying to help his people, and unlike for example the Tau who also have been called many times "not grimdark" primarchs actually have the power to do change, the tau are a small dozen solar systems empire wide xeno union that could bring a new dawn to the galaxy but they are too small, too powerless to even dream of doing so, that is their grimdark. Loyalist Primarchs lack that futility because not only do they control the biggest empire in the galaxy but they are also unquestioned as demigods. When Robute returned there was a promising possibility of a revolt by the inquisition that could cause an internal civil war that would split the imperium not only giving more reasons for loyalist vs loyalist tabletop matches but also adding that negative side to his return and grimdarkness, but GW quickly overshadowed that aspect and now the inquisition and Guillimen just co-exist rendering that there were no negatives in this improvement of a society that wants to be stable and not in constant self-destructuon like tyrranids or chaos Tl:Dr Returning loyalist Primarchs are too much of a good for the imperium, going against the core grimdark themes of decadence of 40k
You kinda need highs and lows to contrast eachother. Right now we are in an era of high with the Primarks returning. I doubt that itll last more than a few more years. Then Vulkan will return with the Nails implanted in his brain wiping out his own sons
You can't have progression that way. If the Primarchs don't return then the Imperium will collapse, chaos wins, the end. No more W40k. I'll be honest, I like the grimdark because it makes the noble acts of the characters shine brighter. Grimdark for grimdark's sake is not my thing.
Pretty much agree overall but I just can’t say I’m a fan of primarchs returning I feel like there’s plenty of ways your keep primarchs at a distance and still have the imperium exist keeping chaos at bay.
I don't mind Warhammer 40k going a bit less grimdark. If there are no pauses or a bit lighter bits between the grimdark, it becomes dull and has much less of an impact. Check the official 40k comics from way Warhammer monthly. They juggled grimdark, restrained hope and dark humour very well. They never got boring.
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
From a Son of Malice to a Son of Angron, I agree the setting isn't the same. The Daemonculaba was peak. It was straight out of a death metal album. I want horror to return. I want to feel the fear that compels the loyalists to surrender to the ruinous powers. The loyalists know what happens when they're captured. I want to see them do everything in their power to fight it, and I want to see what happens when they have no choice but to kneel before the dark gods. The horror makes seeing friendly astartes an actual relief
There are still horror elements coming out for the grimdark universe and it still definitely is grimdark. Choosing one of the most shock value things as a baseline is pretty unfounded however because even before that there was still horror elements, and after the deamonculaba there are still a multitude and plethora of horror entries. Saying Warhammer 40K is not grimdark anymore is pure unfounded opinion.
As Warhammer 40K moves through mediums, it's to be expected for it to get somewhat less basement dwelling fan favorite and a bit more accessible. I'm so curious about Henry Cavill's version of it and how much of the grimdark he can capture without being off putting to people who don't know about the franchise. There needs to be a starting point for the stories, but WH is so massive in scale that I don't know what it could be.
im assuming they'll start w the dark age of technology, like some 6 minute intro w light worldbuilding and the shamans sacrificing themselves to create the emperor, then prolly a timeskip to 40k
@@changoforreal if they were to do a movie or show, they would need to have first 10 minutes setting things up like intro of LOTR
@@JBendyfromdawic but that's the thing, since the canon is so loose in WH40K, I don't know if a more organic narrative would be better. Have it be like Warhammer Space Marine 2 at face value, all power armor and alien invasion just to layer by layer start hinting that this is actually all fucked up
It’s definitely getter softer. It’ll end up where Disney Star Wars is now down the line.
I remember an old short story about Kharn and the World Eaters, where one of the world eaters gets crippled charging towards enemy lines.
Crippled and in a no man’s land, the world eater roars, “blood for the blood god!” And saws off his own head in impotent rage.
He offers his own blood to Khorne, and his own head for the Skull Throne.
I can’t imagine stories like that anymore.
Too many “mainstream” nerds are entering the fandom now (magic fans, Star Wars fans, etc).
The fandom used to be more grunge, more metal heads back in the day - GW literally licensed metal albums.
The modern fans will shift the setting eventually. I just wonder whether us veterans will still recognize it then.
P.S - Loyalist Space Marine stories vary in grim dark. The “nicer” chapters (Ultramarines, Crimson Fists) have generally likeable and relatable characters who experience the grim dark world around them.
The darker chapters (Iron Hands, Dark Angels) tend to be very grim dark in and of themselves. Read: Wrath of Iron, Helsreach, anything to do with Flesh Tearers…
Sort of ? Do a 1000 psykers still get sacrificed every day to the emperor? Are there flagelants ? Is there a Tyranid fleet on every corner of the galaxy? I thought so...
I think for the most part 40k is still grimdark
I say for the most part because the main aspect that sticks out are the returning loyalist primarchs
The themes of 40k have been decadence of past empires and a spiral of stuff constantly getting worse and worse
When other factions get new additions these elements either worsen the state of the faction or increase its self-destructive abilities
When chaos or tyrranids increase in power and numbers they are like a burning forest, feeding this fire only increases how bad stuff is in the galaxy
Loyalst primarchs dont do this, they help bring back hope and bring back some stability to the imperium and specific factions under the imperium. This doesnt feel to me like grimdark or 40k because there is no evil, its just an anti-hero trying to help his people, and unlike for example the Tau who also have been called many times "not grimdark" primarchs actually have the power to do change, the tau are a small dozen solar systems empire wide xeno union that could bring a new dawn to the galaxy but they are too small, too powerless to even dream of doing so, that is their grimdark. Loyalist Primarchs lack that futility because not only do they control the biggest empire in the galaxy but they are also unquestioned as demigods.
When Robute returned there was a promising possibility of a revolt by the inquisition that could cause an internal civil war that would split the imperium not only giving more reasons for loyalist vs loyalist tabletop matches but also adding that negative side to his return and grimdarkness, but GW quickly overshadowed that aspect and now the inquisition and Guillimen just co-exist rendering that there were no negatives in this improvement of a society that wants to be stable and not in constant self-destructuon like tyrranids or chaos
Tl:Dr
Returning loyalist Primarchs are too much of a good for the imperium, going against the core grimdark themes of decadence of 40k
You kinda need highs and lows to contrast eachother. Right now we are in an era of high with the Primarks returning. I doubt that itll last more than a few more years. Then Vulkan will return with the Nails implanted in his brain wiping out his own sons
You can't have progression that way. If the Primarchs don't return then the Imperium will collapse, chaos wins, the end. No more W40k.
I'll be honest, I like the grimdark because it makes the noble acts of the characters shine brighter. Grimdark for grimdark's sake is not my thing.
Pretty much agree overall but I just can’t say I’m a fan of primarchs returning I feel like there’s plenty of ways your keep primarchs at a distance and still have the imperium exist keeping chaos at bay.
I would say that there is a shimmer of hope with, Roboute
The primarchs in general tends to make it so as well
I don't mind Warhammer 40k going a bit less grimdark. If there are no pauses or a bit lighter bits between the grimdark, it becomes dull and has much less of an impact. Check the official 40k comics from way Warhammer monthly. They juggled grimdark, restrained hope and dark humour very well. They never got boring.