Neil's journey from pickup artist to advocate for genuine connection is truly inspiring! 🌟 His message about giving validation to others and prioritizing authenticity in relationships is invaluable advice for building meaningful connections in both personal and professional life.
Honestly the splitting hairs was the BEST part. I struggle with this all the time: should I strive to contribute? Is that striving self serving or even arrogant? How do I know I'll know before having done damage? Is it enough to "just" be a good parent, good husband, good family member? I loved the debate because it gave me honest perspective. Thank you for splitting hair!
What a great conversation. I paused many times because Neil description of his relationship with his mother tracked so much with me. Also, I agree with Neil about doing the right thing because it's right, but how I connect to Simon's concept is that we still propagate and plant the seeds for others regardless of if it has the intended outcome. Action ripple out.
The first step to contributing is being able to take care of yourself. There needs to be a solid foundation to support yourself and others. Neil's point is that sometimes that's all a person can do is care for themselves, and Simon's point is you should be aiming to contribute, meaning take care of yourself plus others. They are both correct. So sometimes all you can do is focus on yourself, especially in hard times, and then if you feel secure enough, you can take on the responsibility of others which should be the goal.
So cool to see this. I can't remember how I found out about the PUA community and Neil's book, 'The Game', but I was one of those that bought it hoping to help me get a girlfriend. It's so funny to hear Neil describe the start and end of the book and saying it's about male insecurity. Because I did read it but mainly focused on the middle sections where I could get tips. Neil did release a companion book, 'Rules of the Game' which was more of the self-help book. This was 2007 and I was 20. I then went on learning about other 'gurus'. There was quite a bit of content on UA-cam you could find for this stuff. I thought I wanted to be like a pickup artist. But in the end I wasn't comfortable with that. Going through the phase did teach me to communicate with people. I'm 37 now. Married for 4 years with someone I love, have a 2 year old son, and a daughter on the way. Thank you, Neil. Without you and your book, I wouldn't have gone on this journey and be where I am today - happy
YES YES YES - SUCH great content. Hairsplitting allows us to THINK!!! And we are NOT taught to think anymore. We are not encouraged to talk things through with different opinions and views and find common ground - 2 sides of the same coin seen from different places. My favorite quote - not quoted exactly as said but my new mantra... I am responsible and accountable for my actions and my words and will attempt to go through life in a way that I leave whatever situation, conversation, or place slightly better than when I showed up.
I personally think Neil is 💯 right on contribute without having to taking responsibility. That is healthy! How can I possibly take responsibility for how other people feel and get out of a situation. Everyone is responsible for making the final call themselves, after I “contribute” 😊
The Game was such a fun and fascinating book. I used some of the tips when I was younger and they do work! However picking up girls is not the ultimate goal in life. I’m happily married with a wonderful wife and kids and experience a lot more joy than when I was younger. We all evolve over time, hopefully towards more meaning and fulfillment.
That was a tough one to get through... I found myself agreeing with Neil early on in the conversation. Near the end, and maybe it's that we are surrounded by self serving people living on a fantasy "island", but all I could feel was cowardice. People that are afraid to even attempt to make the world better because they may be held accountable. It made me sick to my stomach.
The part about splitting hair was a good difference in POV. The moral question Strauss unintentionally raises is like the trolly questions proposed in philosophy 101. Some opt to leave the lever the way it is, even knowing it would inevitably go and take the lives of those at the end of the track because they dont want to put themself into the equation AND they cant predict if the outcome of changing the course could cause further harm (i.e., save the people but find out theyre terrible people who then go onto take even more lives- Strauss' concern). I think Sinek is proposing we take action because thats our way of contribution. If we fail to live life without contributing in the lives of others around us, we take away from our community (humanity). I think I agree with Sinek more, though I admit it's more difficult to actually carry out in practice. It is easier to take on the role of a bystander or to leave the "least impact," but I would argue the motive for these are rooted in self preservation not some higher idealism. It might seem noble to not want to impose when you dont dare say your action "will" give a positive outcome. We cant predict the future, sure. But it isnt arrogance to want to contribute in some way to those around us based on the limited knowledge we have at any given time if the motive is to add value (i.e., contribution). IDK 😂 I think my brain agrees with Sinek, then my body agrees with Strauss cause then iknow im not burdening myself to care for those around me and this is how iknow it isnt the right choice 🤣 It's so much easier not to care and give whatever higher idealistic reason to explain away your inaction; at the end of the day, the lack of action is more often than not just another form of cowardice 🤔
Wanting to take responsibility for others on our shoulders can sometimes backfire on ourselves and the person we wanted to help. It is important to teach people how to fish, how build a house instead of doing the work for the other person, Offering help to others is important especially if they are unable to help themselves
Very good debate. “Can we do the right thing without being responsible for the outcome?” My answer: I don’t think so. A) Right or wrong are Cultural narratives (norms etc.). that are bound by space & time. So, they are prone to change, even though certain norms may feel like they transcend space & time. B) For change to take place, there needs to be a feedback mechanism, that could lead to the feeling of ‘heathy shame’ (feelings are cultural constructions too). That feeling (particularly if it’s unpleasant) will inherently make one feel responsible (belief based cue or evolutionary cue for survival). Bottom line: without feeling a sense of responsibility (either towards oneself or others) change is hard to come about - Then doing the right thing is not sustainable… turtles all the way back, doing the right thing is not possible without being responsible for the outcome. Another way to look at it is - if doing the right thing is possible without being responsible for the outcome, then doing the wrong thing too is possible without being responsible for the outcome. It’s another debate if one should be retributed for the outcome or restituted. I second the second, because free will doesn’t really exist in absolute terms.
The Bible reference, in the chapter’s context, is not about “be happy planting your garden and building your house”, it’s about (paraphrasing) “I thought I was satisfied on all this things but it was all vanity”
The Outcome is not the Outcome … it’s just the first ring of an ever-expanding series of rings, rippling forward through time. We do our best to decide and act - and, if these decisions and actions result in slightly better outcomes in the world, then perhaps we are living with virtuous purpose. Of course, we cannot know much about the sets of consequences beyond that first ripple … we can try our best, with all good intentions ... but we can never fully know. Simon - with all due respect - I don't think it's so simplistic as 'As long as you're intentions are good' .... history is replete with examples of people with good intentions - killing millions. Interesting chat though. thank you to both.
I'm a bit surprised at Simon just pushing on his idea. It doesn't look like him. Neil is just saying "hey you don't know , so maybe let People alone sometimes" and Simon just keep pushing and pushing, not willing to admit that Neil is right or that there is a middle ground. It's weird to see him like this.
The aim of a podcast interview is not only to listen to people's perspectives but also question them. Simon is right to question Neils ideas so that we get a better idea of how it's formed, why he holds those views and how impactful those viewers are to this own life. I loved seeing that exchange and will watch more of Simon's podcasts from now on.
@@clem9830 Simon is disagreeing with the perspective neil has. In my opinion, It's a good thing because you don't want interviews where you listen to someone's perspectives on things without fundamentally understanding how it was formed or whether it could be defended if it were scrutinised. That's probably why I enjoyed the back and forth so much. Neil explained why he believed what he believes in and Simon did the same thing. Both explained their stance passionately. Overall it's important to note this disagreement they've had is on one perspective of the many perspectives both hold in life. Keep in mind, people's perspectives change over time. Neil used to have a pickup perspective back in the day which he no longer does; that perspective which I'm sure he defended at that time and lived life by, ironically he no longer cares for today. I get where you are coming from in disagreeing with Simon's approach. It can look rather combative. But I'm looking at the exchange from a different perspective, more of a challenging the views of the person being interviewed. I really dislike podcasts where someone is interviewed and their ideas never criticized or have them explain their perspectives indepth. The listener is left with hearing a bunch of surface level questions.
@@JamesO-cj3dp i totally agree but it's the way he did it. Pushing, forcing instead of calmy talking it out. You can read on his body language that it's really bothering him.
I think the point is that in the larger scheme is that if everyone does something with a positive intention to contribute VS people just do whatever. The end result will be that the world and all its people as a whole are better off when everyone acts with the right intention. I do think Neil’s view on this is quite cynical.
Personally, I REALLY struggle with this. I feel like it always sounds fake, like a Hallmark card. I tend to have such high expectations of the world around me, and "meeting" my expectations doesn't deserve praise, exceeding my expectations does. It happens so seldom that it feels disingenuous to praise what feels like mediocrity to me.
Simon and Neil should test their MBTI. I suspect that Neil is an introverted thinker, and Simon is an extroverted feeler. No one is more right than the other, just very, very different.😂
High quality video content! I have another question: someone transferred me some TRC20 USDT and I have recovery phrases: 【pride pole obtain together second when future mask review nature potato bulb】 How can I monetize them?
Neil's journey from pickup artist to advocate for genuine connection is truly inspiring! 🌟 His message about giving validation to others and prioritizing authenticity in relationships is invaluable advice for building meaningful connections in both personal and professional life.
Honestly the splitting hairs was the BEST part. I struggle with this all the time: should I strive to contribute? Is that striving self serving or even arrogant? How do I know I'll know before having done damage? Is it enough to "just" be a good parent, good husband, good family member?
I loved the debate because it gave me honest perspective.
Thank you for splitting hair!
What a great conversation. I paused many times because Neil description of his relationship with his mother tracked so much with me.
Also, I agree with Neil about doing the right thing because it's right, but how I connect to Simon's concept is that we still propagate and plant the seeds for others regardless of if it has the intended outcome. Action ripple out.
Such a pivotal message of changing our attitude from bringing others down to building them up. We lift each other when we do this.
The first step to contributing is being able to take care of yourself. There needs to be a solid foundation to support yourself and others. Neil's point is that sometimes that's all a person can do is care for themselves, and Simon's point is you should be aiming to contribute, meaning take care of yourself plus others. They are both correct. So sometimes all you can do is focus on yourself, especially in hard times, and then if you feel secure enough, you can take on the responsibility of others which should be the goal.
Don't take Validation from people provide them validation 😂😂 i love this point
So cool to see this.
I can't remember how I found out about the PUA community and Neil's book, 'The Game', but I was one of those that bought it hoping to help me get a girlfriend.
It's so funny to hear Neil describe the start and end of the book and saying it's about male insecurity. Because I did read it but mainly focused on the middle sections where I could get tips.
Neil did release a companion book, 'Rules of the Game' which was more of the self-help book.
This was 2007 and I was 20. I then went on learning about other 'gurus'. There was quite a bit of content on UA-cam you could find for this stuff.
I thought I wanted to be like a pickup artist. But in the end I wasn't comfortable with that. Going through the phase did teach me to communicate with people.
I'm 37 now. Married for 4 years with someone I love, have a 2 year old son, and a daughter on the way.
Thank you, Neil. Without you and your book, I wouldn't have gone on this journey and be where I am today - happy
YES YES YES - SUCH great content. Hairsplitting allows us to THINK!!! And we are NOT taught to think anymore. We are not encouraged to talk things through with different opinions and views and find common ground - 2 sides of the same coin seen from different places.
My favorite quote - not quoted exactly as said but my new mantra... I am responsible and accountable for my actions and my words and will attempt to go through life in a way that I leave whatever situation, conversation, or place slightly better than when I showed up.
Dynamite! What a powerhouse interaction. Should do a once a month with these 2.
Splitting hairs is an important part of deep philosophy.
This was a great and important discussion. I hope revere will be another round.
This is great! Very much enjoyed the philosophical discussion and would love more of this type of dialogue!
I personally think Neil is 💯 right on contribute without having to taking responsibility. That is healthy! How can I possibly take responsibility for how other people feel and get out of a situation. Everyone is responsible for making the final call themselves, after I “contribute” 😊
Good to see your hand getting better Simon. Just started the video and it was the first thing I noticed.
Very, very interesting! A guy passed me that book in 2010..i learnt alot about men and their insecurities and lack of connection with Self 👍
I agree with Neil Strauss perspective 1000%
The "hair splitting" was a very insightful discussion, good inputs from both sides. I hope to see more hair splitting like this in future episodes!
The Game was such a fun and fascinating book. I used some of the tips when I was younger and they do work! However picking up girls is not the ultimate goal in life. I’m happily married with a wonderful wife and kids and experience a lot more joy than when I was younger. We all evolve over time, hopefully towards more meaning and fulfillment.
That was a tough one to get through... I found myself agreeing with Neil early on in the conversation. Near the end, and maybe it's that we are surrounded by self serving people living on a fantasy "island", but all I could feel was cowardice. People that are afraid to even attempt to make the world better because they may be held accountable. It made me sick to my stomach.
The part about splitting hair was a good difference in POV. The moral question Strauss unintentionally raises is like the trolly questions proposed in philosophy 101. Some opt to leave the lever the way it is, even knowing it would inevitably go and take the lives of those at the end of the track because they dont want to put themself into the equation AND they cant predict if the outcome of changing the course could cause further harm (i.e., save the people but find out theyre terrible people who then go onto take even more lives- Strauss' concern). I think Sinek is proposing we take action because thats our way of contribution. If we fail to live life without contributing in the lives of others around us, we take away from our community (humanity). I think I agree with Sinek more, though I admit it's more difficult to actually carry out in practice. It is easier to take on the role of a bystander or to leave the "least impact," but I would argue the motive for these are rooted in self preservation not some higher idealism. It might seem noble to not want to impose when you dont dare say your action "will" give a positive outcome. We cant predict the future, sure. But it isnt arrogance to want to contribute in some way to those around us based on the limited knowledge we have at any given time if the motive is to add value (i.e., contribution). IDK 😂 I think my brain agrees with Sinek, then my body agrees with Strauss cause then iknow im not burdening myself to care for those around me and this is how iknow it isnt the right choice 🤣 It's so much easier not to care and give whatever higher idealistic reason to explain away your inaction; at the end of the day, the lack of action is more often than not just another form of cowardice 🤔
Wanting to take responsibility for others on our shoulders can sometimes backfire on ourselves and the person we wanted to help. It is important to teach people how to fish, how build a house instead of doing the work for the other person, Offering help to others is important especially if they are unable to help themselves
I am the first person to enter in that podcast🎉
Iam too
Very good debate.
“Can we do the right thing without being responsible for the outcome?”
My answer: I don’t think so.
A) Right or wrong are Cultural narratives (norms etc.). that are bound by space & time. So, they are prone to change, even though certain norms may feel like they transcend space & time.
B) For change to take place, there needs to be a feedback mechanism, that could lead to the feeling of ‘heathy shame’ (feelings are cultural constructions too). That feeling (particularly if it’s unpleasant) will inherently make one feel responsible (belief based cue or evolutionary cue for survival).
Bottom line: without feeling a sense of responsibility (either towards oneself or others) change is hard to come about - Then doing the right thing is not sustainable… turtles all the way back, doing the right thing is not possible without being responsible for the outcome.
Another way to look at it is - if doing the right thing is possible without being responsible for the outcome, then doing the wrong thing too is possible without being responsible for the outcome.
It’s another debate if one should be retributed for the outcome or restituted. I second the second, because free will doesn’t really exist in absolute terms.
Great talk! Thank you👍
Take care of yourself, thanks for your optimism
Oh ! Subscribed btw
Simon thankyou!
Beautiful .
The Bible reference, in the chapter’s context, is not about “be happy planting your garden and building your house”, it’s about (paraphrasing) “I thought I was satisfied on all this things but it was all vanity”
Read “Why Zebras Don’t Get Ulcers”. It explains a lot about what factors generate or relieve stress in humans.
The Outcome is not the Outcome … it’s just the first ring of an ever-expanding series of rings, rippling forward through time. We do our best to decide and act - and, if these decisions and actions result in slightly better outcomes in the world, then perhaps we are living with virtuous purpose. Of course, we cannot know much about the sets of consequences beyond that first ripple … we can try our best, with all good intentions ... but we can never fully know. Simon - with all due respect - I don't think it's so simplistic as 'As long as you're intentions are good' .... history is replete with examples of people with good intentions - killing millions. Interesting chat though. thank you to both.
I'm a bit surprised at Simon just pushing on his idea. It doesn't look like him. Neil is just saying "hey you don't know , so maybe let People alone sometimes" and Simon just keep pushing and pushing, not willing to admit that Neil is right or that there is a middle ground. It's weird to see him like this.
The aim of a podcast interview is not only to listen to people's perspectives but also question them. Simon is right to question Neils ideas so that we get a better idea of how it's formed, why he holds those views and how impactful those viewers are to this own life. I loved seeing that exchange and will watch more of Simon's podcasts from now on.
@@JamesO-cj3dp question yes of course. But he's not questionning, he's pushing. That's not the open minded mindset that i'm used to see with him.
@@clem9830 Simon is disagreeing with the perspective neil has. In my opinion, It's a good thing because you don't want interviews where you listen to someone's perspectives on things without fundamentally understanding how it was formed or whether it could be defended if it were scrutinised. That's probably why I enjoyed the back and forth so much. Neil explained why he believed what he believes in and Simon did the same thing. Both explained their stance passionately. Overall it's important to note this disagreement they've had is on one perspective of the many perspectives both hold in life.
Keep in mind, people's perspectives change over time. Neil used to have a pickup perspective back in the day which he no longer does; that perspective which I'm sure he defended at that time and lived life by, ironically he no longer cares for today.
I get where you are coming from in disagreeing with Simon's approach. It can look rather combative. But I'm looking at the exchange from a different perspective, more of a challenging the views of the person being interviewed.
I really dislike podcasts where someone is interviewed and their ideas never criticized or have them explain their perspectives indepth. The listener is left with hearing a bunch of surface level questions.
@@JamesO-cj3dp i totally agree but it's the way he did it. Pushing, forcing instead of calmy talking it out. You can read on his body language that it's really bothering him.
I always thought the game was tragic but still a great book.
For the record, I would totally subscribe to "philosophical hair splitting with Neil & Simon"
@SimonSinek, what happened to your hand?
I think the point is that in the larger scheme is that if everyone does something with a positive intention to contribute VS people just do whatever. The end result will be that the world and all its people as a whole are better off when everyone acts with the right intention. I do think Neil’s view on this is quite cynical.
Personally, I REALLY struggle with this. I feel like it always sounds fake, like a Hallmark card. I tend to have such high expectations of the world around me, and "meeting" my expectations doesn't deserve praise, exceeding my expectations does. It happens so seldom that it feels disingenuous to praise what feels like mediocrity to me.
6h passed with 2m subs, yet barely 5 comments? Weird.
Simon and Neil should test their MBTI. I suspect that Neil is an introverted thinker, and Simon is an extroverted feeler. No one is more right than the other, just very, very different.😂
Neil is so fucking intelligent
Hope Simon is doing well. That thing on his elbow worries me.
Hear it in 0.75x speed you can get this clearly... Thank me later
He needs to write a book on divorce court
High quality video content! I have another question: someone transferred me some TRC20 USDT and I have recovery phrases: 【pride pole obtain together second when future mask review nature potato bulb】 How can I monetize them?