taking some time off to focus on UA-cam uploads between now and the next AoC livestream so I won't be streaming for a couple weeks. But follow the stream for the return on the 30th: www.twitch.tv/Narciverse
in my opinion, P2W is simply anything you can buy to skip progression. xp scrolls or store pots and food items that are as good if not better than most normal stuff or like in eso with riding skill scrolls and achievement purchases to rebuy skyshards after you have gotten their associated skyshard hunter achievement or skipping needing to do the guild skill lines with money are all P2W. things like buying into an early access is not because while you learn a thing or two, especially if there is a cut off a few months before the full release where finalized changes are made, while YES you can have an advantage getting to directly test and expeiriment yourself, you can just look up many different content creators advantures to see it for yourself AND even if you join in yourself, your still going to watch content creators journeys for any infomation you can get from them meaning no. it is not P2W but instead an early investment. beyond that also just as a sidenote, getting to pay to get to spend time on a server early before its full release while those who dont pay cant join up and start at the same time as you is a roundabout way of skipping progression by being the only one allowed to progress because you paid money meaning that would be P2W.
also i will add that if it was paying to play the beta while there is a nda meaning anyone who doesnt buy it cant get that knowledge too than i lean towards yes while still also standing on the line but even than, i mostly only play eso right now and you can ask any eso player just how much the game changes constantly meaning learning evrything early can be a detrinment if you get set in your ways too nuch to see the new metas as they form.
"You think you do but you don't" to use a very unpopular but sometimes true quote. If most of the people that are investing time in the game (which midcore to hardcore players are) are put in a separate server, this would seriously hurt the economy for casuals. That's just 101 economics in MMORPG my guy. The most hardcore playerbase usualy generates most of the cashflow and drive prices down. No hardcore players = higher prices for casuals because there's less item/ressources availability.
@@thesunryze4658 yeah nah, the people "that are really invested in the game" are not all min/max/meta hardcore bellends. And your point about the economy also only applies to the absolute top-end mats/gear where there would be a supply choke, all the 90% rest of the economy would be unaffected, actually usually more evenly distributed amongst the population. So that's a double nah.
@@jinglyjones1677 That's a double nah ? Then please explain why PoE's economy works exactly as I said is. Please also explain the price fluctuations in games like WoW on expansions where raiders and other invested players... quitted way earlier ? The effects I described are (litteraly) observed by cross examination of player retention stats, playstyle polls, market data etc.. of games that allow access to such data, and oftentimes using publicly open APIs. Every single game with an economy works like that, it was not a question. You can debate it all you want, or search "video games trade economy theory" on google and educate yourself about something that is very well documented, since you litteraly learn about it in game dev schools. Edit : Meta players and hardcore players, by definition, by the fact that they have the most playtime, tackle content that has high requirement floor etc... generate the most ressources in MMORPGs. As for your point on mats : we don't know yet. Lots of games nowadays tackle this issue by requiring low level mats even for high end crafts. You're just assuming and talking out of your ass here.
@@jinglyjones1677 Go tell that to highly experienced and successful game devs who come to game dev schools and teach us that based on their experience and hundreds of scientific paper on the matter. You're nobody but I'm sure you have solid experience to back up your claim , although I don't see any data to back you up so far. Let me guess your sources : "trust me bro" ? Btw, your second statement assumes low end mats are irrelevant at high level : no one knows yet, so stop making assumptions.
Well you probably never played at the highest lvls of mmorp, 3 day is huge difference bro. Specially when there are bosses spawning. No way to catchup to a dedicated player.
Being able to play for multiple years ahead of launch is definitely an invaluable advantage over every other player that didn't and it's pretty delusional to think it isn't.
Whenever the Pay2Win argument comes up, I urge everybody to look up Josh Strife Hayes' video called "What is pay to win?" He masterfully explained this aspect in that video. And imho that is the only video every gamer needs to watch at least once to understand and stop using the rhetoric that "it's not pay to win, it's pay to convenience". You said it extremely well in this video. Edit: The headstart servers will be basically used for high end testing by the min-max guilds that will stay there, or else they will die out and be completely removed from the game after X years after they die out.
I think no nameplates is best. I still remember when i got jumped by those Redridge orcs behind the rock, exiting Lakeshire. And if you want to add an extra sneaky twist to world pvp, also no nameplates.
I agree, especially if you can act like you are an NPC to disguise yourself. Example would be the Skeleton Skin in Dark and Darker, that lets you look like one of the enemies ingame 😂👌
Pay for knowledge: Shadowbane had an extended closed beta with limited access. The guilds that were allowed into the beta learned all about the game and used that knowledge to completely dominate the live servers for the first year, oppressing all of the launch players, blocking them from gear, skill unlocks, and progression. It was one of the major factors that killed the game.
i didnt consider the headstart but having a different server is a good way to funnel the hardcore min/max players me not being one of those, but i do like seeing data, will have to think on that for future games in general
outro songs just keep getting better I swears, if you'd make a small album after you have like 12 of these i'd buy it for the lels, It would be my Spotify guilty comfort track
you guys are going to need whole goddamn KEG of copium. this game is going to be tied up behind so many paywalls it will cost $$$ for everything else but POWER and there will be some sort of blurred line that it will cross over even for that. pay to to reset of some lock out or more rolls on loot or something.
No nameplate is the best nameplate. Click on your target and you get a clear UI nameplate at the top. Players are distinguished by their looks, not by flying letters in the world.
i completly agree with 1:30 Pay 2 Convinient and Pay 2 Progess is ALWAYS Pay2win. People always got mad at me when i say world of warcraft is pay2win. You can literaly buy a max level char for 50.-
Alpha and Beta would be more p2w if it was closed. Since it is open, most of the knowledge an individual would gain can be gained on twitch and youtube. Theres nothing like experimenting yourself but we need an Alpha and Beta. Its acceptable
AoC will be pay to win just probably not the alpha 2. It just won't be pay the company to win. Let's take the leader of a huge merchant node upgraded to a metropolis. The leader is supposed to be a bought position. Do you really think that won't be a guy buying gold from some company farming with bots?
Head start servers might sound good for people with head start access, at first, but then no one else will join them when the first big wave comes. It’ll probably be a month or so until the head start servers don’t have a reputation anymore. More of a hindrance to them imo than a benefit. A2 access being pay to win is tricky. It won’t be under NDA, so it’ll be streamed almost all the time. If you have as much free time as the people playing to watch streams and videos, then there shouldn’t be much of an advantage. But theoretically, sure, there could be some players not streaming or uploading videos who find things out that never make it to a wider audience, so I guess there’s a chance of there being a paid advantage. But the odds of anything in A2 not making into a video or online guide are slim to none, so I don’t think it really counts.
I don't see it as big advantage as far as knowledge goes. Since A2 is going to be non-NDA, there will be a full wiki and you can gather as much info as you want without playing the game. As far as experience goes, I'm not too pressed about that either. More experience won't make a bad player good, and a lack of experience isn't going to slow down a good player much. You see this in every game. Players pop up all the time that are very good with very little experience compared to the masses.
I’d say paying for knowledge in the game would be pay to win just because if you don’t have the money for it you don’t have access to the same resources as others who do, tangible or not. However with it being an alpha and being subject to change it may very well not matter much.
On the topic of paying for knowledge, I'd say in this case I wouldn't call it pay to win since there isn't an NDA. Anything we find out, will likely be pushed to videos or livestreams. That's not perfect, but there is no pay wall to get this information, only a pay wall to explore it first hand.
9:32 shows screenshot of the lowest possible resolution known in human history where 50 people are standing vs singular wow npc nameplate and says. "Its shit"
If the whole premise of “Ashes of Creation” works, we should have a dynamic world where a noob can enter a year after launch and still be playing the top content with the bros in 6 months. Massive node sieges are going to be huge resource sinks.
While paid alpha access can provide an early advantage, it is indeed not as clear-cut as traditional "pay to win" scenarios. However, if the advantages gained during the alpha significantly impact competitive balance in the released game, it could be viewed as a form of "pay to win" by the community. The key distinction lies in whether these early advantages create a lasting, insurmountable edge over other players... For example when someone discovers a bug, but keeps it to themselves and exploits it when the game is released. Even with low odds such a thing could devastate the game, but because the odds are so low and the situations in which the community would deem it "pay to win" are extremely rare, I would not consider access to an alpha version "pay to win". It does offer pathways to abuse, but that is actually not related to the concept of "pay to win". Ultimately, the purpose of the alpha is to find bugs and make the game work smoother, the experience gained by the "tester", is more of a side effect. If that does not convince you, consider that if you see purchasing "game knowledge" for real money is "pay to win", you have to deem paying a subscription for game time "pay to win" as well. Get it? HAHAHAHA Btw I'm a braver of worlds which makes this extra funny.
Playing and gaining knowledge from Alphas is definitely p2w. On day 1 of the release everyone that has been playing on Alpha/Beta will be faster and know of progression paths that everyone else won't know about. So the money does give you faster and easier progress. But I don't mind that type of p2w and I also don't mind cosmetics and some convenience types of p2w like PoE stashes.
I think that a material (pixels lol) advantage isn't acceptable. A knowledge advantage occurs everyday within every aspect of life. I would say that Knowledge and Experience are very human advantages. There is nothing we can, or should do, in my opinion.
Around 7 minutes in - the worst spot the game has ever been in is absolutely, without a shadow of doubt, APOC imo. APOC was unplayably bad day 1, laggy choppy detritus. Despite that memory though, I did still have faith in the devs, and that faith continues to grow as they build this product.
I can see that paying for beta testing is pay to win. Especially since it’s not open to the public in any capacity outside of paying. That said I think the positives of testing the game with those dedicated financially enough willing to pay for a beta test might outweigh not doing it. Edit: not to mention what about people who buy the game later than launch, do it age, not being aware of launch, etc, are the players who buy it first pay to win because they did it first and will obviously have an advantage of knowledge and skill over a new player
I'm not so sure if early access or head start servers are pay to win. Even for the people who bought into Alpha 2 access, there will be plenty of videos on builds and the meta builds that someone with no experience can just follow along and surpass anyone who casually played alpha 2
i don't want to be a nerd or anything, but that song wasn't orchestral dubstep, it was deathstep. orchestral dubstep would be something akin to Instrumental Core and deathstep would be something akin to White Eyes.🤓 but anyway that song fucking slaps, can you drop it somewhere for us youtube plebs to listen?
It is not knowledge since there will be streamers that will share the contect and there will be so many YT guides and videos so there won't be much secrets here so i don't think it is as big of an advantage. I don't like headstart servers even though i have access, the live servers would be more lively.
Agreed. P2W is binary yes/no. Then it's how badly it's P2W (which to some extent is subjective, since some people are fine with what others would consider horrible)
If there’s not a free way to play Alpha 2, then I don’t believe Steven/AoC… I still don’t have access, why? Because I don’t have hundreds of $$ for an Alpha pass
Honestly the argument of "playing alpha is p2w because you can learn the game earlier than most other players" is absurd. Watching a video guide about the game is learning the game earlier. Reading wikis, and theorycrafting is learning the game earlier. Watching streams of players experiencing and learning the game is also, via observational learning, considered learning the game. Anyone who is watching and keeping up with the dev livestreams are in fact, getting a relatively unfair advantage over other casual players who dont follow the game religiously, as you (those who watch dev livestreams) inherently know which skills you want to use, which class you want to play as, which subclass you want, which race you want, which type of node you want to beeline for, etc. etc. Casual player literally have to learn all of this on launch day itself, giving themselves a massive disadvantage over us coped up fans lol. The only real difference is that Alpha players get to understand and test out bugs that may or may not be fixed by the time the game launches. But at the same time, these bugs would already also be massively highlighted in youtube videos or forum threads. The fact of the matter is, in this age of interconnectedness, you cant run away from "learning the game early" and considering an Alpha is P2W is silly.
IMHO pay to win only covers paying to make up for a lack of skill. In other words achieving a level in the game which you do not deserve based on your skill level. Paying to gain skill or experience, is not pay to win. I think also people have to be wary. This game has a number of new concepts and I distinctly get the impression that it is being designed as an ongoing long-lived game, in the nature of a team sport. Just because your node/guild are top of the tree in February, doesn't mean that come March you will not be sitting with a ruined node at square 1, because you picked one fight too many or your node got targeted by a catastrophe. I find it difficult to believe that a game with so many new concepts isn't going to have a few wrinkles in the end game also.
Alpha is not P2W. IF there was an NDA from streaming alpha and beta then yes it’s p2w. But for the people who didn’t pay will watch streams for free knowledge of the game. They will have months to years of streams to watch. By time it releases those who watched streamers play will be at the same level
I play main tank, main heals, and rogue in mmo's. I will be looking for a good guild to join. I have access to Alpha2. If anyone wants a DOG....let me know!
I was there for apog i don't think it was that Bad as everyone says. Was ist good ? Not really but it wasnt the worst battle royal out at that time even If they needed to polish nearlly everything
Alphas and betas (at least how AoC is doing it) arent pay to win. Any knowledge you get from playing with the systems before full release will be available before release in videos, articles, and guides for free to anyone who chooses to look for them.
Pay to win is much simpler than people want to make it. IF someone starts playing a year after launch, can they pay to get something that moves them forward in the game without the time dedication required? If so, that is pay to win. If not, that is regular gameplay. Claiming a head start or that Alpha/Beta experience is pay to win is False. If it wasn't False, then all of you starting day one paying a sub for a year are "paying to win" over the guy that starts a year late. Period.
I'm not going to buy the game until it is on sale 1 year after it releases. Therefore everyone who buys it for more on day of release is a "pay to winner" because I am choosing to wait until there is a cheaper version. Enjoy being a 'pay to winner" when you buy it on standard release. How are you any different than the people who pay more for 3 day early access?
Real life is not p2w at all actually. There is no extraterrestrial currency that somehow allows you to gain IRL money. All IRL money is gained through the IRL world and therefore its not p2w at all. Even gaining IRL money through a video game would be considered IRL gain. There is no IRL p2w whatsoever, even spawning in with rich parents isn't p2w. Its just RNG.
Lol did u see the guy in the forums talking about nameplates and linked some total monstrosity he uses for WOW PVP. It was nuts. Also strangely sexy af not goona lie.
The argument for alpha/beta being p2w if you're gaining knowledge doesn't make sense. Mainly because there will always be someone new to the game... Even 2 years down the line... Does that mean all people before them are part of a p2w structure? Then as soon as someone starts the game after them they're now part of the p2w thing?
If someone starts a month after release, that makes everyone who played before them P2W right? They’ve got advanced knowledge, time and money spent in the game. Just like an EA right? /s People start at different times in all games, so is it the initial cost that you have a problem with? How is that different than a kid who can’t scrounge enough cash for a sub to start on launch? If folks in the A2 have an advantage from game knowledge, but Intrepid pushes balance patches, fixes and changes to the client, are they then at a disadvantage? Besides, NDA is lifted for A2. If anything they’re spending money on wasted time & game knowledge that won’t be applicable to launch. If that’s P2W, then all the degens following the game are already guilty of this.
Pay to win... uugghh Always the same BS when any new game releases, the PtW crowd. Either pay or don't (if it is), crying online never changes anything so why? Say you're a broke ... without saying you're a broke....
taking some time off to focus on UA-cam uploads between now and the next AoC livestream so I won't be streaming for a couple weeks.
But follow the stream for the return on the 30th: www.twitch.tv/Narciverse
What up narc, when you gonna do a colab with other AoC creators?like Ashes of Relation?
in my opinion, P2W is simply anything you can buy to skip progression. xp scrolls or store pots and food items that are as good if not better than most normal stuff or like in eso with riding skill scrolls and achievement purchases to rebuy skyshards after you have gotten their associated skyshard hunter achievement or skipping needing to do the guild skill lines with money are all P2W. things like buying into an early access is not because while you learn a thing or two, especially if there is a cut off a few months before the full release where finalized changes are made, while YES you can have an advantage getting to directly test and expeiriment yourself, you can just look up many different content creators advantures to see it for yourself AND even if you join in yourself, your still going to watch content creators journeys for any infomation you can get from them meaning no. it is not P2W but instead an early investment. beyond that also just as a sidenote, getting to pay to get to spend time on a server early before its full release while those who dont pay cant join up and start at the same time as you is a roundabout way of skipping progression by being the only one allowed to progress because you paid money meaning that would be P2W.
also i will add that if it was paying to play the beta while there is a nda meaning anyone who doesnt buy it cant get that knowledge too than i lean towards yes while still also standing on the line but even than, i mostly only play eso right now and you can ask any eso player just how much the game changes constantly meaning learning evrything early can be a detrinment if you get set in your ways too nuch to see the new metas as they form.
Thin air
being able to take a few weeks off work to play is pay to win
pay for convenience or progress faster in the beginning ( will still lose ) sadge
A real first world problem right here
a few weeks taking off = getting paid to win
@@Thelos90 Taking off work to game = literally not getting paid to win
quitting your job is pay to win
actually it's sounds great if the min/max/meta/hardcore guilds are on separate servers xD
they get top tier competition too
"You think you do but you don't" to use a very unpopular but sometimes true quote.
If most of the people that are investing time in the game (which midcore to hardcore players are) are put in a separate server, this would seriously hurt the economy for casuals. That's just 101 economics in MMORPG my guy. The most hardcore playerbase usualy generates most of the cashflow and drive prices down. No hardcore players = higher prices for casuals because there's less item/ressources availability.
@@thesunryze4658 yeah nah, the people "that are really invested in the game" are not all min/max/meta hardcore bellends. And your point about the economy also only applies to the absolute top-end mats/gear where there would be a supply choke, all the 90% rest of the economy would be unaffected, actually usually more evenly distributed amongst the population. So that's a double nah.
@@jinglyjones1677 That's a double nah ? Then please explain why PoE's economy works exactly as I said is.
Please also explain the price fluctuations in games like WoW on expansions where raiders and other invested players... quitted way earlier ?
The effects I described are (litteraly) observed by cross examination of player retention stats, playstyle polls, market data etc.. of games that allow access to such data, and oftentimes using publicly open APIs.
Every single game with an economy works like that, it was not a question. You can debate it all you want, or search "video games trade economy theory" on google and educate yourself about something that is very well documented, since you litteraly learn about it in game dev schools.
Edit : Meta players and hardcore players, by definition, by the fact that they have the most playtime, tackle content that has high requirement floor etc... generate the most ressources in MMORPGs. As for your point on mats : we don't know yet. Lots of games nowadays tackle this issue by requiring low level mats even for high end crafts. You're just assuming and talking out of your ass here.
@@jinglyjones1677 Go tell that to highly experienced and successful game devs who come to game dev schools and teach us that based on their experience and hundreds of scientific paper on the matter. You're nobody but I'm sure you have solid experience to back up your claim , although I don't see any data to back you up so far. Let me guess your sources : "trust me bro" ?
Btw, your second statement assumes low end mats are irrelevant at high level : no one knows yet, so stop making assumptions.
People worrrying about a 3 day head start in a 2 year or more alpha testing is peak degen
This
Dont you get a 3 day head start on the launch as well if you have the starter pack? Or was it only for Alpha 2?
Imagine wanting to have fun in a fair and balanced environment. The Nerve!
Well you probably never played at the highest lvls of mmorp, 3 day is huge difference bro. Specially when there are bosses spawning. No way to catchup to a dedicated player.
3 day headstart is peak degen, but AoC show that it will be very average game so yeah who gonna play it the game which died in 2 years
Being able to play for multiple years ahead of launch is definitely an invaluable advantage over every other player that didn't and it's pretty delusional to think it isn't.
13:37 length, nice
Nice
Nice
Whenever the Pay2Win argument comes up, I urge everybody to look up Josh Strife Hayes' video called "What is pay to win?"
He masterfully explained this aspect in that video. And imho that is the only video every gamer needs to watch at least once to understand and stop using the rhetoric that "it's not pay to win, it's pay to convenience". You said it extremely well in this video.
Edit: The headstart servers will be basically used for high end testing by the min-max guilds that will stay there, or else they will die out and be completely removed from the game after X years after they die out.
I think no nameplates is best.
I still remember when i got jumped by those Redridge orcs behind the rock, exiting Lakeshire.
And if you want to add an extra sneaky twist to world pvp, also no nameplates.
I agree, especially if you can act like you are an NPC to disguise yourself.
Example would be the Skeleton Skin in Dark and Darker, that lets you look like one of the enemies ingame 😂👌
Pay for knowledge: Shadowbane had an extended closed beta with limited access. The guilds that were allowed into the beta learned all about the game and used that knowledge to completely dominate the live servers for the first year, oppressing all of the launch players, blocking them from gear, skill unlocks, and progression. It was one of the major factors that killed the game.
GUYS! Ashes of Creation will fully release when Star Citizen is fully released.
😂
i didnt consider the headstart but having a different server is a good way to funnel the hardcore min/max players
me not being one of those, but i do like seeing data, will have to think on that for future games in general
outro songs just keep getting better I swears, if you'd make a small album after you have like 12 of these i'd buy it for the lels, It would be my Spotify guilty comfort track
its not just knowledge, you are able to refine your techniques which defines victory or defeat right after equipment quality
you guys are going to need whole goddamn KEG of copium. this game is going to be tied up behind so many paywalls it will cost $$$ for everything else but POWER and there will be some sort of blurred line that it will cross over even for that. pay to to reset of some lock out or more rolls on loot or something.
No nameplate is the best nameplate. Click on your target and you get a clear UI nameplate at the top.
Players are distinguished by their looks, not by flying letters in the world.
i love the outro music really much :D
sounds like Electric Callboy 🤘
Most people won't quit the initial server. Get real!
Omg them music videos are hilarious!
Love the song haha. i was tuned out doing other things just listning to the vid when BAM...
i completly agree with 1:30 Pay 2 Convinient and Pay 2 Progess is ALWAYS Pay2win. People always got mad at me when i say world of warcraft is pay2win. You can literaly buy a max level char for 50.-
God Damn that was good music
10:03 got me good lol
Hope a wiki is being worked on in these alpha stages.
Alpha and Beta would be more p2w if it was closed. Since it is open, most of the knowledge an individual would gain can be gained on twitch and youtube. Theres nothing like experimenting yourself but we need an Alpha and Beta. Its acceptable
AoC will be pay to win just probably not the alpha 2. It just won't be pay the company to win.
Let's take the leader of a huge merchant node upgraded to a metropolis. The leader is supposed to be a bought position. Do you really think that won't be a guy buying gold from some company farming with bots?
Journey through modern music genres with Narc
Head start servers might sound good for people with head start access, at first, but then no one else will join them when the first big wave comes. It’ll probably be a month or so until the head start servers don’t have a reputation anymore. More of a hindrance to them imo than a benefit.
A2 access being pay to win is tricky. It won’t be under NDA, so it’ll be streamed almost all the time. If you have as much free time as the people playing to watch streams and videos, then there shouldn’t be much of an advantage. But theoretically, sure, there could be some players not streaming or uploading videos who find things out that never make it to a wider audience, so I guess there’s a chance of there being a paid advantage. But the odds of anything in A2 not making into a video or online guide are slim to none, so I don’t think it really counts.
Easily the best ai song to date 😂 That edit was amazing!
11:42 Asa bald dude this was epic, don't worry you're not alone 🤣
I don't see it as big advantage as far as knowledge goes. Since A2 is going to be non-NDA, there will be a full wiki and you can gather as much info as you want without playing the game. As far as experience goes, I'm not too pressed about that either. More experience won't make a bad player good, and a lack of experience isn't going to slow down a good player much. You see this in every game. Players pop up all the time that are very good with very little experience compared to the masses.
I’d say paying for knowledge in the game would be pay to win just because if you don’t have the money for it you don’t have access to the same resources as others who do, tangible or not. However with it being an alpha and being subject to change it may very well not matter much.
It's also not under NDA, so there's no advantage
On the topic of paying for knowledge, I'd say in this case I wouldn't call it pay to win since there isn't an NDA. Anything we find out, will likely be pushed to videos or livestreams. That's not perfect, but there is no pay wall to get this information, only a pay wall to explore it first hand.
song at the end made me LOL
9:32 shows screenshot of the lowest possible resolution known in human history where 50 people are standing vs singular wow npc nameplate and says.
"Its shit"
If the whole premise of “Ashes of Creation” works, we should have a dynamic world where a noob can enter a year after launch and still be playing the top content with the bros in 6 months. Massive node sieges are going to be huge resource sinks.
that music was hard
if it’s not a tangible in the game is pay for service like buying a service in RL
Getting to play in Alpha 2 and assist in development is definitely winning. So, me paying to be in it is def P2W, I'm SO excited.
While paid alpha access can provide an early advantage, it is indeed not as clear-cut as traditional "pay to win" scenarios. However, if the advantages gained during the alpha significantly impact competitive balance in the released game, it could be viewed as a form of "pay to win" by the community. The key distinction lies in whether these early advantages create a lasting, insurmountable edge over other players... For example when someone discovers a bug, but keeps it to themselves and exploits it when the game is released. Even with low odds such a thing could devastate the game, but because the odds are so low and the situations in which the community would deem it "pay to win" are extremely rare, I would not consider access to an alpha version "pay to win". It does offer pathways to abuse, but that is actually not related to the concept of "pay to win". Ultimately, the purpose of the alpha is to find bugs and make the game work smoother, the experience gained by the "tester", is more of a side effect.
If that does not convince you, consider that if you see purchasing "game knowledge" for real money is "pay to win", you have to deem paying a subscription for game time "pay to win" as well. Get it? HAHAHAHA
Btw I'm a braver of worlds which makes this extra funny.
TLDR it's p2w. don't read the 2nd half of that text guys
Narc, I'm trying to catch up, is there anything to keep guilds from turning into a business and taking over each server like in new world?
Playing and gaining knowledge from Alphas is definitely p2w. On day 1 of the release everyone that has been playing on Alpha/Beta will be faster and know of progression paths that everyone else won't know about. So the money does give you faster and easier progress. But I don't mind that type of p2w and I also don't mind cosmetics and some convenience types of p2w like PoE stashes.
I think that a material (pixels lol) advantage isn't acceptable. A knowledge advantage occurs everyday within every aspect of life. I would say that Knowledge and Experience are very human advantages. There is nothing we can, or should do, in my opinion.
Nah that track at the end actually slaps hahaha
What makes a good nameplate - NO NAMEPLATE
Around 7 minutes in - the worst spot the game has ever been in is absolutely, without a shadow of doubt, APOC imo. APOC was unplayably bad day 1, laggy choppy detritus. Despite that memory though, I did still have faith in the devs, and that faith continues to grow as they build this product.
if steven turns it p2w it would be the greatest debacle in gaming history
I can see that paying for beta testing is pay to win. Especially since it’s not open to the public in any capacity outside of paying.
That said I think the positives of testing the game with those dedicated financially enough willing to pay for a beta test might outweigh not doing it.
Edit: not to mention what about people who buy the game later than launch, do it age, not being aware of launch, etc, are the players who buy it first pay to win because they did it first and will obviously have an advantage of knowledge and skill over a new player
Giving free trasfers to the early start servers when the population is low will help balance the server out.
I'm not so sure if early access or head start servers are pay to win. Even for the people who bought into Alpha 2 access, there will be plenty of videos on builds and the meta builds that someone with no experience can just follow along and surpass anyone who casually played alpha 2
I do like new world name plate, I bloody h8 small UI, dont wont to feel like a boomer and ware glasses
i don't want to be a nerd or anything, but that song wasn't orchestral dubstep, it was deathstep. orchestral dubstep would be something akin to Instrumental Core and deathstep would be something akin to White Eyes.🤓
but anyway that song fucking slaps, can you drop it somewhere for us youtube plebs to listen?
It is not knowledge since there will be streamers that will share the contect and there will be so many YT guides and videos so there won't be much secrets here so i don't think it is as big of an advantage. I don't like headstart servers even though i have access, the live servers would be more lively.
Head start servers sound like a legit trap
Agreed. P2W is binary yes/no. Then it's how badly it's P2W (which to some extent is subjective, since some people are fine with what others would consider horrible)
I fucking loved the end lol
If there’s not a free way to play Alpha 2, then I don’t believe Steven/AoC… I still don’t have access, why? Because I don’t have hundreds of $$ for an Alpha pass
In any given game, if all the high end players have spent money on a specific thing, its probably pay2win.
Honestly the argument of "playing alpha is p2w because you can learn the game earlier than most other players" is absurd. Watching a video guide about the game is learning the game earlier. Reading wikis, and theorycrafting is learning the game earlier. Watching streams of players experiencing and learning the game is also, via observational learning, considered learning the game. Anyone who is watching and keeping up with the dev livestreams are in fact, getting a relatively unfair advantage over other casual players who dont follow the game religiously, as you (those who watch dev livestreams) inherently know which skills you want to use, which class you want to play as, which subclass you want, which race you want, which type of node you want to beeline for, etc. etc. Casual player literally have to learn all of this on launch day itself, giving themselves a massive disadvantage over us coped up fans lol.
The only real difference is that Alpha players get to understand and test out bugs that may or may not be fixed by the time the game launches. But at the same time, these bugs would already also be massively highlighted in youtube videos or forum threads. The fact of the matter is, in this age of interconnectedness, you cant run away from "learning the game early" and considering an Alpha is P2W is silly.
New world UI for chat and design is disgusting it makes you not socialise, I hope Ashes will do better, wow's UI and chat design is great
I have a feeling that you are going to create an AI song eventually that will go viral.
I’m always impressed by the quality of these videos. If ashes one day gets popular this channel is going to be crazy popular
IMHO pay to win only covers paying to make up for a lack of skill. In other words achieving a level in the game which you do not deserve based on your skill level. Paying to gain skill or experience, is not pay to win.
I think also people have to be wary. This game has a number of new concepts and I distinctly get the impression that it is being designed as an ongoing long-lived game, in the nature of a team sport. Just because your node/guild are top of the tree in February, doesn't mean that come March you will not be sitting with a ruined node at square 1, because you picked one fight too many or your node got targeted by a catastrophe.
I find it difficult to believe that a game with so many new concepts isn't going to have a few wrinkles in the end game also.
Alpha is not P2W. IF there was an NDA from streaming alpha and beta then yes it’s p2w. But for the people who didn’t pay will watch streams for free knowledge of the game. They will have months to years of streams to watch. By time it releases those who watched streamers play will be at the same level
glad to see a smidgen of the old Narc creative side come out. Best Ashes of Creation content creator imo... because i'm high on copium.
I play main tank, main heals, and rogue in mmo's. I will be looking for a good guild to join. I have access to Alpha2. If anyone wants a DOG....let me know!
If you're playing an ALPHA TEST for a knowledge advantage you don't understand what the purpose of an alpha test is.
I was there for apog i don't think it was that Bad as everyone says. Was ist good ? Not really but it wasnt the worst battle royal out at that time even If they needed to polish nearlly everything
Alpha 2 is a necessary evil to create a great game. The headstart issue on the other hand is 100% pay to win.
Wtf is a head start server?
Alphas and betas (at least how AoC is doing it) arent pay to win. Any knowledge you get from playing with the systems before full release will be available before release in videos, articles, and guides for free to anyone who chooses to look for them.
Pay to win is much simpler than people want to make it.
IF someone starts playing a year after launch, can they pay to get something that moves them forward in the game without the time dedication required?
If so, that is pay to win. If not, that is regular gameplay.
Claiming a head start or that Alpha/Beta experience is pay to win is False.
If it wasn't False, then all of you starting day one paying a sub for a year are "paying to win" over the guy that starts a year late. Period.
Shouldn't all cosmetics be in an in game shop aka a tailor, and not a cash shop. Any cash shop sortof breaks the escapism of the game space
Well a bit too late for that considering how many limited time cosmetics they've already sold.
great
playing alpha is not learning the game.... playing the beta is.
I'm not going to buy the game until it is on sale 1 year after it releases. Therefore everyone who buys it for more on day of release is a "pay to winner" because I am choosing to wait until there is a cheaper version. Enjoy being a 'pay to winner" when you buy it on standard release. How are you any different than the people who pay more for 3 day early access?
Pay to win? Funny. Someone will usually always have an advantage over you in some way.
13:37 duration, brother is another level of shitposting.
noice vid
AI music so good nice vid as allways
Just get rid of any cash shop
Alpha2 will be non-NDA, So anyone that wants that knowledge can watch your streams. (so not pay to win)
SONG GOES HARD! I GOTTA GET THIS SHIT
I thought you were supposed to shave or something?
Whadddup boiz
Yes getting to play a game before others gives you an advantage when it comes out.
Real life is not p2w at all actually.
There is no extraterrestrial currency that somehow allows you to gain IRL money. All IRL money is gained through the IRL world and therefore its not p2w at all. Even gaining IRL money through a video game would be considered IRL gain. There is no IRL p2w whatsoever, even spawning in with rich parents isn't p2w. Its just RNG.
Paying to play the game is pay to win.
Lol did u see the guy in the forums talking about nameplates and linked some total monstrosity he uses for WOW PVP. It was nuts.
Also strangely sexy af not goona lie.
You got scared and didn't answer your own question wtf...
any form of paying to whatever in this game and im not gonna touch this game.
tl;dr
yes
Dood the song at the end roflmao
Borderline clickbait. Alpha is not under NDA. Theres no advantage.
pls don't get too fat
The argument for alpha/beta being p2w if you're gaining knowledge doesn't make sense.
Mainly because there will always be someone new to the game... Even 2 years down the line... Does that mean all people before them are part of a p2w structure? Then as soon as someone starts the game after them they're now part of the p2w thing?
Ehhh GW2 had a 3 day head start... Is it a pay to win? No...
Oh come on. We're not 15 years old. How is a head start unfair in any way?
Saying Wow has good name plates is cap.
Came for AoC and head Tarkov. Lost interest
If someone starts a month after release, that makes everyone who played before them P2W right? They’ve got advanced knowledge, time and money spent in the game. Just like an EA right? /s
People start at different times in all games, so is it the initial cost that you have a problem with? How is that different than a kid who can’t scrounge enough cash for a sub to start on launch?
If folks in the A2 have an advantage from game knowledge, but Intrepid pushes balance patches, fixes and changes to the client, are they then at a disadvantage? Besides, NDA is lifted for A2. If anything they’re spending money on wasted time & game knowledge that won’t be applicable to launch. If that’s P2W, then all the degens following the game are already guilty of this.
Pay to win... uugghh Always the same BS when any new game releases, the PtW crowd. Either pay or don't (if it is), crying online never changes anything so why?
Say you're a broke ... without saying you're a broke....