How to Invade a Planet: Assault ships
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- Опубліковано 8 лис 2023
- Today i explore the question: "How do you invade a planet in trek?" and the answer is, with assault ships. throughout the various eras of trek we've seen numerous types of assault ship employed. starting with the striking Klingon D-10, to the Unwieldy constellation class, all the way to the Cardassian Keldon class and beyond. but do these ships have what it takes to put boots on the ground?
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Yes how inconsiderate of people not letting themselves be invaded
Man I hate it when my fleet has to bombard a worlds shield just to get me a small opening to land my forces.
I always lose way to many clones.
Sure I can clone new ones quickly but armor isn’t cheap.
@@spaceengineeringempire4086
Who invaded an entire world with mindless clones? (Looking at you, Dominion. 👀). Ketracel White, anyone?
😂
There is something of note on large, company landing shuttles. They can still have a use in landing reinforcements planetside. They are not meant to be part of the initial wave. They'd be great at bring in heavy/specialized pieces of equipment like tanks or artillery for proactive engagements in/around cities or other places where large quantities of equipment are needed, but transportor enhibtors grids are still in place.
Assault ships are indeed an interesting aspect not really brought up in Trek. A DS9-ified version of the Seneca could be an assault ship.
Also, trench coat D7 meme finally makes an appearance in one of videos.
ST has a complex relationship with anything that might be called military.
@@M167A1 just as complex as their relationship with "martial arts"😂
Assaulting a planet without glassing the whole place has to be the single most hazardous combat operation a space-faring power can undertake. There's a huge amount of considerations involved, and it really lends itself to the idea that "amatuers talk tactics, professionals talk logistics."
GREAT video, as usual. At this point, you have displaced my Vtubers in quality
This thought of getting troops dirtside made me admire the Lancer Drop Pods from _Andromeda._ By being a single seater, it meant having so many targets it could overwhelm point defense by having hundreds of targets rather than a dozen, could bring in/take out the troops as well as equipment and could be used for close in support if they didn't have Phoenix atmo-capable fighters.
True as long as they don't get scattered. A dropship can cover you during a deployment.
Ok, should I play Andromeda then? xD
@@A407RAC Wrong Andromeda. _Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda_ TV series from 15 years ago. Lancers were their version of Marines and they would use drop pods for atmospheric entry of troops as well as resupply drops.
@@danielseelye6005 Sounds interesting, I'll have to look more into it
Great analysis. I love how you find always find ways to make what we see in the series plausible without inventing stuff that is not seen in canon like for example a game like Star Trek: Infinite has to do. Really great world building here.
And thank you for the feature :-)
Pleasure. You've done so much to flesh out the cardassian fleet you should be proud.
@@venomgeekmedia9886 My favorite Assault ship from Beta canon is Continent class.
Star Trek Infinite is horrible, that game needed another year worth of fine tuning. The people that bought it should be getting free DLCs for the life span of the entire game.
I can see the use of assault ships leaving a force similar to a modern US Marine Marine Expeditionary Unit which is a battalion sized unit with supporting forces, forming a beachhead then the larger heavy forces land afterwards. And yes you have to be smarter taking over a planet compared to an island, your soldiers still can't be in two places at once.
I would imagine Yesterday's Enterprise Galaxy class would be very effective. Carrying 6,000 troops plus being a very powerful warship in its own right can do some serious damage.
Yeah and that's probably pretty close to a prime galaxy. But the big limiting factor is how many shuttles can you launch
@@venomgeekmedia9886true but the main shuttle bay of a galaxy is not far off a modern helicopter carrier/assault ship
The real problem the space equivolent of amphibious assaults is scale on a planitary level even a division or whole corps is insignificant in terms of being able to put boots on key terrain and control the battlespace. You are better served by being able to deploy relitively small special forces teams to reduce planitary defense instalations especially anti orbital weaons and rely on orbital fire support to render organized resistance untennable, you just can't put enough basic, straight leg infantry men on the ground to matter no matter how big your assault ship is.
ya, while assaults on planets are always look good in movies. From a realistic point of view, you would never do it. Earth has 8.1 billion people on it. You cannot put enough feet on the ground to effecvily control that amount of people. If you do need to control a planet your only real option is either using special forces to elimiate leadership, though they will be the most protected indivdiuals on the planet so you would need to have a signifinly higher level of technology to counteract that or you would seige the planet and bombard it from orbet until you get the compliants you want from the population.
Just the United states has 1.4 million people in active military. Are saying each assult ship would carry 600 people... you need need 2500 assault ships just to match the amount of troops. Based on how many ships each factions has... you couldnt scrape that many ships together if you combined all the fighting factions together.
This has always been the issue with a lot of Sifi shows is they always fail at the scale of any species that has intersteller fights and has been around for 100 - 200 years of that level of technology... the only ones that seems to get it right is like Warhammer. Their feelts have billions of crew and minitary units and hundereds of thoughsands of ships and troop carriers
@@muffin2007 This is why a mix of Organic Troops leading Combat Droid Soldiers and commanding them is optimal.
Imagine if each Droid has Lt. Commander Data level of movement capability + Data levels of toughness / strength.
Each Organic Soldier is the Squad Leader commanding 12x Combat Droids in the field to execute a mission.
Let's say you have a Batallion of 1,000 Organic Soldiers, each leading 12x Combat Droids to form a Basic Squad with 3x 4-Droid Fire Teams Consisting of 2-Droid Units out in the field.
That's 13,000 boots on the ground with a mix of (1,000 Organic Soldiers & 12,000 Data-Level Combat Androids)
Imagine the # of different objectives you can accomplish with only 1x of those Organic Batallions backed by 2x Legions worth of Combat Droids.
Now spread that to the entire Organic Army that could match the US Military's #'s today with the mass production of Droids on the UFP level.
Mix that with a 12x Multiplier for Combat Droids per Organic Soldier on the ground.
Now spread that over a VERY wide Battle Line crossing thousands of miles, every Squad having their own objectives.
You can cover a VERY wide terrain or battle field.
The biggest issue with ships that can land company sized formations, is that if you can employ them you most likely control orbit, which means you can zap anything that needs that many troops to beat. Small and mobile means that you are less likely to attract the attention of that heavy cruiser overhead.
The Dominion war had a lot of ground combat that a TV show was never going to be able to show in those years. With things like transporters can be disrupted or blocked. SO you would need lots of shuttles to get ground side. And a ship that can move around all those shuttles.
I mean I think in the trek universe you just want to get enough forces to the surface to set up a transporter pad or clear a zone of Inhibitors, then hold it and you start transporting the rest to the surface.
Now I imagine a Galor shipgirl with a backpack and called the Keldon.
There's no such thing a a galor shipgirl...
@@venomgeekmedia9886*not yet
Don't forget the fin shaped stiletto heels.
So busy but finally got to see this video! Thanks Venom! Sorry to be late…
I would argue that the Keldon's are the biggest variant they should be at maximum. Any bigger and it just takes too long to really get everyone deployed.
Now with that said, there are ways to get around this, such as transporter pad systems that would teleport a entire brigade, vehicle to a specific location or everything at ones in different locations. This would bypass the entire deployment issue while wearing enough armor, weapons and still have plenty of space left for staying in the fight while delivering the troops and their vehicles such as tanks.
A very nice video, well made and also very well explained.
In order to carry out a successful invasion of a planet, troop transports are essential in order to be able to deploy ground troops in sufficient numbers and to provide personnel and material supplies.
However, these troop transports and their carrier ships only come into action in the final phase of the battle for a planet.
Such carriers are too valuable to lose along with ground forces at the start of the battle.
However, the planetary defenses, which usually consist of several units of light, medium and heavy cruisers, must first be eliminated.
Once the enemy has been defeated in the air/orbit, the ground troops can be deployed to break the resistance on the ground and capture important infrastructure.
The FASA history of the D-10 is a little different form your interpretation. She was originally rushed into service during the Four Years War (2250s) as a counter to Starfleet's relative new Constitution class, which were clearly superior to the D-7. Although she started with a complement of 320 troops and 10 standard shuttlecraft, she was much more intended as a fleet combatant; a proper heavy cruiser, unlike the D-7. While her improved later iterations couldn't keep pace with the refit Constitution, she remained one of the Empire's most powerful line ships for the rest of the century. Although her 24th century life may have seen her increasing used in the assault ship role, she actually saw her troop count gradually decrease over the second half of 23rd century, while her exploratory and non-combat transport capacity increased.
Yeah because I prefercthe D7 to come after the Connie as we have in DISCO thus have less of a power gap between the two.
No mention of the Galaxy class, with three shuttle bays, being called a troop transport in yesterday's Enterprise. Crash the saucer section on a plant surface, an instant base of operation.
Assault ships? With the D10 images of Klingons strapping their batleth's and sisruptors up in order to go into battle against the Jem Hadar for honourable victory with the to the tune of Klendathu drop more then the Star Wars way.
I agree that its an odd thought on landing troops though. I wonder if because of the numbers of people you need to take a planet whether fighting is more based around taking key installations like shield generators and such and then its generally acknowledged the game is up for most races and they either evacuate, start a guerilla campaign or go for broke against the airpower and get yourself killed(might be the Jem Hardar or Klingon way). Given what a photon torpedo or phaser can do to a planets inhabitants and have a whole bunch of theoretical inter galatic conventions at say Khitomer about what is and isnt allowed before and after cracking a planets shields.
Well, Venom, you know I loves me the Keldon.
with 24th century defences a smaller assault company would be better to disable transporter inhibitors or anti air weaponry, even in key local areas so a much larger force can be beamed in directly. i assume the troops don't even have to land the shuttle. shortrange beaming to cut through jamming or sub orbital jumps where humanoid sized objects using sensor countermeasures to arrive undetected are possible.
Yeah that's possible although you loose the benefits of dropship support.
@@venomgeekmedia9886
not necessarily you would still need a dropship to get you from orbit to ground. what i mean is using a shuttle transporter the same as rappel from a 20th century helecopter within a few dozen meters of the ground and using the shuttle to ether go back to orbit for more troops faster or moving on to hit ground targets as air support
All those half-finished Galaxy-class ships? Prime small-craft carrier and troop transport material.
Thinking about it. No one ever talks about the heavy hardware needed to support an invasion or defend from one. We always hear about the infantry. But, never anything heavier than Pistols or Rifles. May see heavy "machine guns" or mortars. No, big artillery pieces, which I can see could be handled by the attacking ship if it is on standby, but no ground base guns.
I know in FASA was close to releasing rules based on ground combat and their own combat designs. But the licensing was pulled just before the first season of TNG, if I recall.
I know there is a lot of fan creations. But, never see it on the TV. Have the characters say "Heavy Gun Emplacement" and when they get to that emplacement. It is just literally two dudes with pop rifles. Nothing else. Not even a console for what looks like weapon controls.
It is an area of Star Trek that is sorely forgotten. Just like the Armies of the Universe. Navy has a bright future, it seems.
I've always been of the opinion that the Constellation class is a swiss army knife sort of ship. Certainly it was a successful assault ship but depending upon the shuttles you place on it it can serve as a salvage ship, a scout ship, or a hospital ship. Truly a workhorse as it is so adaptable.
Good video, I really like seeing how things are different in Trek with lighter, faster more precise actions being more valuable than mass troop numbers.
The Battalion strength drop force Is enough to launch a strike targeting the enemy's transport inhibitor infrastructure, which I would think is the most desired outcome.
If you can't hit the Infrastructure then you may have to resort to establishing a bridgehead, and that bridgehead may be able to deploy Transporter pattern enhancers of some sort to allow that rapid transport of troops to the surface.
If you can't establish any sort of Transporter access, then you may have to resort to continued shuttle waves of reinforcements and the use of light ground vehicles to move distances.
War, after all is a democracy, and the enemy gets a vote too.
What about Orbital insertion drop pods?
Maybe pack them with Droids to take on the first landing & securing the drop zone area.
Then setup Transporter Enhancement Nodes to counter any "Anti-Transporter Jamming" and bring in the rest of the organic troops along with extra combat droids
feet first into hell
"You're on an express Turbolift to Hells, Going down! *WWOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"* - Trooper Hud'Shon, 22nd Order
*_Klendathu drop intensifies!_*
Platoon dropships go in, take out transporter inhibitors to establish a beachhead.
Then you bring in the heavier dropshipa to land thr armoured and artillery wargear to start the main push.
Those vig ships are never meant to be the first wave, they supply an established beachhead.
7:40 Wow Klingons with snipers epic
Well we see one in ST6
Mr D10's Gon' Give It To Ya!
Thanks for covering this curiously mean and ugly spud of a warship!
Cheers
I would guess shockwaves from atmosphere make it harder for shields, but I'd imagine capitals and such would have dozens of shield generators.
Oh just in time for my invasion of the Prelyxian system! Oh joy! Let me get my shock troops over to the Galactic Stadium with a little Ketracel popcorn and play this on auto-repeat…. they’re a little dense but I’m sure some of them will retain this information just long enough to be vaporized into nothingness. No sacrifice is too great for their Grand Emperor (myself), after all.
Honestly, the raw firepower that hand-portable disruptor and phaser weapons bring to a battle mean you don't really need huge armies to have the same impact on the battlefield.
I have a question:
Would it be easier more efficient to have two separate ships join together and form one four warp nacelle vessel?
Think about it. The saucer separation on the Galaxy class leads to the Prometheus class. Why not just have a union of two ships at all times?
I wonder how a galaxy would have done in this role
dissipate getting their ass handed to them the Cardassians often got things right and i can imagine jem-hadar being carried in regnars
Jem'hadar have their own dropships. Only 20 troops but it will stay around to provide fire support
Store troops and supplies in Transporter buffer
I don´t really see Klingons using something like Snipers. They even go at an enemy equipped with blasters wielding blades!
So Klingon assault troops are mostly the LITERAL Storm Trooper. Heck, they would even make SABATON proud!
For anyone not knowing what i refer to: ua-cam.com/video/Oo8H5vUKMlk/v-deo.html
Large dropships will never be needed. The invaders would send small dropships down carrying elite units to take out the transporter inhibitors. Once that's done they would beam infantry down en mass.
Battlemechs! We need Battlemechs!
Nice are you going to do a video on the Battle for earth when the Dominion attacked.
Yes
what about drop pods like halo ODST or starship troopers book.
Keldon = Galor with a backpack
Hold my beer ill start drawing
The Defiant can land?
Okay an isue with how you describe the Keldopn. If it is a plantary assult ship gear for support then fire power then why would the obisdian order chose this class over a Galor for Tain's Fleet?
The additional space may have been used to house the cloaking equipment
@@venomgeekmedia9886 it can fit on the defiant no problem. No I see the Keldon as a beefed up Galor since the Galor only matches an Excelsior
true but the defiants cloak isn't very effective particularly against the dominion@@Revkor
are you also Lazy masquerade?
I would have at least $100,000 troops perform a low orbital jump once they got in the edge of the atmosphere they would be able to fly to the ground and maneuver a Hypersonic speed they would also have advanced flares and chaff to keep them getting shot by missiles and they would also have their suits will be stealth to and each of one of them would have you know a high-powered rifle on their back and you know grenades and a pistol everything they needed I wonder if they flew in be a armored combat suit and it'll be like a Star Trek Iron Man suit or like a the Martian armor from expanse think about that but with Star Trek level technology
Than you have Borgs that directly beams their troops
These days I think everyone just uses transporters.
Is there any ship of this type in the 22nd century
Closest would be the Harcourt class which I covered in the carriers video
1 company plus stuff
Star Trek generally has very weak assault type ships, unlike the one ship absolutely optimized for it in the Star Wars universe, the Acclimator-class assault ship, 1500+ meters, a massive ramp for troops & equipment, and the other bays for different types of ships, i.e. shuttlecraft or fighter craft,.. I'd love to see a Star Trek version of the Acclimator class ship, to put down very large quantities of troops & equipment at one time, and able to defend itself against small craft or other capital size ships.
I mean I don't think the acclamator could stand up to any separatist warship.
Also, an Acclamator is only 752 meters, technically... with 16,000 troops.
the best way to soften up a planets defenses in the Star Trek universe is to blow up the moon. Star Trek planetary shields are strong but they're not strong enough to withstand the impact of a moon. Yes, moons are heavy and hard to move which is why you blow it up first then push the pieces towards the planets surface. The trick is to blow the moon up just right so that the pieces aren't too small to do any damage but aren't too big that they can't be maneuvered into position with tractor beams and deflector dishes. Yes, blowing up the moon would cause all life on the planet to go extinct but at least you'll have deprived the enemy of all the resources they used to build the planets defensive systems as well as you won't need to waste time and soldiers lives by sending down ground forces to clear the enemy base as the continent it was on will no longer be there. You need to thing fourth dimensionally about these things.
just get a battlebarge =P
Why beam troops to the planet?
Why not beam millions of the planet's inhabitants onto deep space?
Politics. Rules of war. That sort of thing.
Besides can you imagine the Federation doing something like that?
@@heathharris2545 Def not the UFP. But Romulns or Cardasians? Absolutely.
Why would you beam people into space? How are they supposed to acknowledge your greatness if they're floating in space?
Those inhabitants are resources for your economic engine. Why are you wasting them?
@@kamenriderblade2099 I'd rather consider it saving the resources I brought in my fleet.