I absolutely love the idea of Thornclaw mentoring Hollyleaf. He's a much better fit for her than Brackenfur and it would explain where she gets her obsession with sticking to the Warrior code.
Hollyleaf was also nursed by Ferncloud who was mates with Dustpelt so he probably instilled the code in her while he was teaching his own kits about it.
I think Thornclaw "trained" in the dark forest just to keep an eye on his clanmates, making sure they're were okay during the whole session and what not. Regardless of how many times he may warn his friends or apprentices, they get in dangerous situations and die in the process while Thornclaw sits on the sidelines and watches. I imagine it took a toll on him mentally and he decided to participate in the most dangerous situation ever so he constantly has a opportunity to save his clanmates (possibly to "redeem" himself).
This is how I would have imagined it too. Maybe Ivypool didn't see him much there because he wasn't as deticated to being a true dark forest cat. Maybe he didn't even train there long? But the dark forest definitely knew to come to him for all he suffered. Love the idea
I always pictured Thornclaw start to have a crush of Blossomfall and then he joined the dark forest to impress her, it really felt like being torn in half, he felt like he had to decide between Blossomfall and the code and all the rules he's loved his whole life. So he decides to stay in the dark forest, to protect Blossomfall, he can't let the same thing happen to her as it did Cinderpaw, Brightpaw, or Swiftpaw, but this video was so cool to listen to other people who make these fanon/canon interpretations
I always really liked Thornclaw, probably cause he is one of the last cats from the first series. Now time to post my own head canon about him after watching this video and mixing it with ideas I had before. Since his siblings were split apart at a young age, I figure he has trouble remembering that Cinderpelt and Brackenfur are his siblings. He only has vague feelings towards them until Cinderpaw gets hit by the car, proving she wasn't ready to be an apprentice. That is his first step into being unsure about leadership. She wasn't ready and Bluestar made her an apprentice anyway. Then when he is an apprentice himself, the oldest apprentice and probably someone he looked up to has the idea to go find the dog pack by themselves. He listened to Swiftpaw enough not to tell his mentor what happened. It could be that Thornpaw didn't trust his mentor because of what happened with Cinderpaw or that he really believed in the leadership of Swiftpaw. Either way, it was further proof that leadership is a bad thing. That incident would also be the thing that pushed him into being brutally honest. If he had told, he could have saved his sister. So I can imagine that he is pretty honest with his own apprentices in the hopes they would do the same with him. Him training them all the time could be him keeping an eye on them and forming strong bonds. Most of his personality could be linked back to Brightpaw and Swiftpaw getting hurt and killed. In this head canon at least. Personally I just wanted these four, Brackenfur, Cinderpelt, Brightheart, and Thornclaw to interact more. Both sisters were nearly killed and both brothers had to go through the pain of going through their warrior ceremony without their sibling. Just something to be like " oh yeah, they were littermates"
Honestly, if the Erin's wanted to, they could make books about many background characters. The fans are always bringing up character development... well this would be a great way to give more depth to the many cats in this series.
I always loved the Frost siblings. All four were some of my favorite characters. I think Thornclaw could have been a good deputy but I don't know about being a good leader. Squirrelflight should have picked him instead of Lionblaze to be honest.
Yaay time for patrol guy to shine! Honestly though he's one of my favourite characters in the series, I don't entirely remember why because I stopped reading after OOTS but I always felt like he was underutilised. When you look at what's been going on in his life, I feel like he could harbour a lot of guilt from not being able to stop Swiftpaw and Brightpaw going after the dogs, growing apart from Brightheart and Brackenfur, most of his apprentices getting hurt or dying, never realising that his best friend was spiralling until it was too late, the Dark Forest (?)... I guess it would only make him that much more determined to be the best warrior he can be, by being a bit of a workaholic and having strong beliefs about how Thunderclan should function. I also remember shipping him with Ashfur back in the day (ah, angst) and making a friend by dragging them into it. Fun times. Never did like how they pushed him with Blossomfall, honestly preferred him to just be the cool single guy like Mousefur.
I have a little theory for Thornclaw's involvement with the Dark Forest. There was one brief line in the books where Ivypool overhears Thornclaw saying to Blossomfall not to stress her recent wound that he says she got from "last night's training." This tells me that even if he wasn't *in* the Dark Forest, he was very aware that Blossomfall was. I think that they grew close on their own and Blossomfall didn't want to keep the secret any longer. As well as that, he is one of the only close relationships in DoveWing's silence that was willing to stay close to the Dark Forest trainees, which may have caused the Clan to shun him similarly.
I really like Thornclaw, him and Blossomfall are a really funny pair. The fact that Blossomfall would always follow him and try to be like him is really cute 😂
I really like him to be honest....even if he is a little asshole sometimes.... but that's part of his character .He's supposed to be this super though guy.Its so interesting that people potray him as workaholic and i think that the authors should play more with that.A good exemple Moonkitti made was that he didn't want to retire to the elders den and that maybe he would die over working himself...or....just something bad happens and he learns a lesson. Anyways great video! 💛💚
In my rewrite I have Thornclaw train in the because Thistleclaw visits him and kind of preys on his anger issues. Thornclaw is trusted to lead all these patrols, he has an new apprentice every story arc (until he is discovered training in the dark forest) and puts a lot of time and care into training them, but no one pays any attention to statements he makes during clan meetings. In Sunrise when they were discussing what do do about Ashfur turning up murdered Thornclaw really wants to make a plan to find whoever did this and make them regret messing with his clan but Firestar specifically told Brambleclaw to keep Thornclaw under watch because he didn't trust him to behave rationally (again his friend was murdered). When Lionblaze is trying to guess who could be and could not be corrupted he deduces that Thornclaw could because he is a hot-head who likes problem cats... kinda true, but also if these examples any indication of how "noble" cats talk about him when he is not around, I can see why he feels more comfortable around problem cats. But anyway in my Au darkforest trainees start out with one darkforest mentor who is someone they do not know to be suspicious of, then are introduced to the others once their original mentor is sure that they have control of this living cats loyalty. Thistleclaw smells like Thunderclan and is not in any stories Thornclaw heard growing up, so Thornclaw is originally flattered that this ancient spirit cat wants to help him get stronger. He also feels validated every time Thistleclaw tell him that his anger is justified, a driving force, it's his way of loving his clan, the cats who talk negatively about him just do not understand... Thornclaw realizes all of this was a trap when Thistleclaw takes him to meet "more cats who think and feel like us" and he looks up see's the two monsters that haunted his kit and apprentice-hood (Brokenstar and Tigerstar). He wants to leave after that, but stays because to his great shame, being brave is a point of pride for him and he thought he was past this, he finds that he still remembers all the trauma these cats put him and his clan through when he was young, and is afraid of them. (Reminder Brokenstar kit-napped, threatened, and imprisoned Thorn and his littermates. Thornpaw was an apprentice when Tigerclaw/star was a rouge/Shadowclan leader that hid in the shadows waiting to pick Thunderlcan off one by one (or all at once with the dogs)), It takes Thornclaw moons of trying, and support from clanmates, to finally break away and he fights for the clans. But he injures is front foot in the battle and it does not heal right. That, plus old injuries from previous battles, plus the emotional toll all of this takes on Thornclaw sends has him retire to the elders den, along with Birchfall. From there he gives other cats advice on how to be brave on patrols, but also to recognize what important things fears are trying to tell them,. Also how to find balance between wanting to prove yourself and excepting that you aren't going to be able to be perfect. woo Long post,
He's a pretty sad cat and I have a long head cannon for him. Also the fact that 2/4 of his apprentices where injured/killed also his father died when he was a kit, he got kidnapped. Etc. maybe he wanted to become leader to make his fathers legacy alive Lionheart that is.
Mousewhisker trodded beside Thornclaw. Without his sister Hazeltail to spend time with, he’d been talking to the older Tom a lot more. “So? Why did you train in the dark forest?” Mousewhisker asked before stuttering out, “not that you had to tell me I just yknow.” “Nah kid, it’s fine. I just, thought training there would help me face the expectations laid out for me by my kin and friends. They have legacies to uphold you know? I wanted one too” Thornclaw murmured. “Really…? Me to. I wanted to live up to the example Hazeltail and Berrynose set, to me, they were model warriors”. “We have a lot more in common then we thought huh?” Thornclaw smiled at him, “your a good kid Mousewhisker”.
I like these videos where you go in depth on your interpretations of characters and essentially give them more consistent personalities and actual reasons for why they behave the way they do. I’m reading your rewrite fanfic currently, I love what you’ve done with Hollyleaf and Cinderpaw/heart and Mousewhisker so far. would you consider doing a video like this about Breezepaw/pelt in the future? also, I’m still reading, and I never thought Lionblaze could be such an interesting character. he’s actually become one of my favorites in your rewrite, and I never cared about him at all in the original series
I honestly hate and love Thornclaw for his entitled behavior during the Broken Code. While Firestars lineage has been seemingly favored, he acts like a brat. I also hate Lionblaze I’m this arc for wanting to kill Shadowsight, the son of his apprentice Dovewing
I like to think that Thornclaw pretended to train in the dark forest to connect with Blossomfall... though this is a new idea and probably not a very stable one
Yay!!! My baby is getting some attention!!! I have my own headcanon surrounding his obsession with patrolling, his time in the darkforest, and how he fell in live with Blossomfall Link to my amino post that goes more in depth aminoapps.com/p/eik2cp TLDR of it: After all the tramua that happened to him in in younger years and has family (being stolen, watching Spotted being murdered, Cinder's injury, Bright's injury, Frostfur's death) He became determined to protect his family/other kits from dangers outside the borders so become obsessed with paroling. Joined the darkforest to become stronger the protect clan. Related to Blossom feeling ignored by Millie as he two had injured sibling that took up a lot of his mother's attention.
A lot of these traits mentioned as being conflicting don't really strike me as being such. You can not want to lead the Clan yourself but be criticial if its done right, and scornful if its not done right. You can enjoy teaching other cats who you know are part of your group, and dislike interacting with others outside of the group. You can hate cats outside of your group and put up with training with cats who want to train you.
I honestly kinda liked Thornclaw's character for arcs 1-4, he seemed like a more outgoing and slightly more aggressive version of Brakenfur. However, starting with AVOS and going into TBC, I can't help but feel like as he gets older, Thornclaw is increasingly gaining "boomer" status with his more conservative views on the code, clan heirarchy and standing up for beliefs. It's like the writers are going out of their way to remind us that he was friends with Ashfur way back when. Well, at least he's an elder in the newest arc so he can be an official boomer now.
I absolutely love the idea of Thornclaw mentoring Hollyleaf. He's a much better fit for her than Brackenfur and it would explain where she gets her obsession with sticking to the Warrior code.
Hollyleaf was also nursed by Ferncloud who was mates with Dustpelt so he probably instilled the code in her while he was teaching his own kits about it.
I think Thornclaw "trained" in the dark forest just to keep an eye on his clanmates, making sure they're were okay during the whole session and what not.
Regardless of how many times he may warn his friends or apprentices, they get in dangerous situations and die in the process while Thornclaw sits on the sidelines and watches. I imagine it took a toll on him mentally and he decided to participate in the most dangerous situation ever so he constantly has a opportunity to save his clanmates (possibly to "redeem" himself).
This is how I would have imagined it too. Maybe Ivypool didn't see him much there because he wasn't as deticated to being a true dark forest cat. Maybe he didn't even train there long? But the dark forest definitely knew to come to him for all he suffered. Love the idea
Ah yes, the fabled "Patrol Guy." As someone who hasn't read the books, I expect this will be somewhat interesting.
The Frostfur siblings are some of my favorite characters in Warriors and it's so nice to see them getting attention lately
I always pictured Thornclaw start to have a crush of Blossomfall and then he joined the dark forest to impress her, it really felt like being torn in half, he felt like he had to decide between Blossomfall and the code and all the rules he's loved his whole life. So he decides to stay in the dark forest, to protect Blossomfall, he can't let the same thing happen to her as it did Cinderpaw, Brightpaw, or Swiftpaw, but this video was so cool to listen to other people who make these fanon/canon interpretations
I always really liked Thornclaw, probably cause he is one of the last cats from the first series. Now time to post my own head canon about him after watching this video and mixing it with ideas I had before.
Since his siblings were split apart at a young age, I figure he has trouble remembering that Cinderpelt and Brackenfur are his siblings. He only has vague feelings towards them until Cinderpaw gets hit by the car, proving she wasn't ready to be an apprentice. That is his first step into being unsure about leadership. She wasn't ready and Bluestar made her an apprentice anyway. Then when he is an apprentice himself, the oldest apprentice and probably someone he looked up to has the idea to go find the dog pack by themselves. He listened to Swiftpaw enough not to tell his mentor what happened. It could be that Thornpaw didn't trust his mentor because of what happened with Cinderpaw or that he really believed in the leadership of Swiftpaw. Either way, it was further proof that leadership is a bad thing.
That incident would also be the thing that pushed him into being brutally honest. If he had told, he could have saved his sister. So I can imagine that he is pretty honest with his own apprentices in the hopes they would do the same with him. Him training them all the time could be him keeping an eye on them and forming strong bonds.
Most of his personality could be linked back to Brightpaw and Swiftpaw getting hurt and killed. In this head canon at least. Personally I just wanted these four, Brackenfur, Cinderpelt, Brightheart, and Thornclaw to interact more. Both sisters were nearly killed and both brothers had to go through the pain of going through their warrior ceremony without their sibling. Just something to be like " oh yeah, they were littermates"
ITS THE PATROL GUY!
I imagine he patrols so much so no kit is stolen like he was
Honestly, if the Erin's wanted to, they could make books about many background characters. The fans are always bringing up character development... well this would be a great way to give more depth to the many cats in this series.
I always loved the Frost siblings. All four were some of my favorite characters.
I think Thornclaw could have been a good deputy but I don't know about being a good leader. Squirrelflight should have picked him instead of Lionblaze to be honest.
Oh, the patrol guy.
I love it when you talk about random background characters and their random bits of personality thought out the series! It is really neat to see
Yaay time for patrol guy to shine! Honestly though he's one of my favourite characters in the series, I don't entirely remember why because I stopped reading after OOTS but I always felt like he was underutilised. When you look at what's been going on in his life, I feel like he could harbour a lot of guilt from not being able to stop Swiftpaw and Brightpaw going after the dogs, growing apart from Brightheart and Brackenfur, most of his apprentices getting hurt or dying, never realising that his best friend was spiralling until it was too late, the Dark Forest (?)... I guess it would only make him that much more determined to be the best warrior he can be, by being a bit of a workaholic and having strong beliefs about how Thunderclan should function.
I also remember shipping him with Ashfur back in the day (ah, angst) and making a friend by dragging them into it. Fun times. Never did like how they pushed him with Blossomfall, honestly preferred him to just be the cool single guy like Mousefur.
Is shipped Thornclaw with Squirrelflight at one point. Lol.
You shipped him with ashfur??? Lol.
@@TheAshfurApologist teenage days what can I say 😂 at least it was implied they were best friends at one point, so not entirely crack 😅
@@dorizelion lol, it's fine obviously, and they were pretty good friends... they are also cousins.
@@TheAshfurApologist ah well, hard to keep track of those family trees. Wasn't dustpelt fernclouds uncle or am I misremembering things?
I have a little theory for Thornclaw's involvement with the Dark Forest. There was one brief line in the books where Ivypool overhears Thornclaw saying to Blossomfall not to stress her recent wound that he says she got from "last night's training." This tells me that even if he wasn't *in* the Dark Forest, he was very aware that Blossomfall was. I think that they grew close on their own and Blossomfall didn't want to keep the secret any longer. As well as that, he is one of the only close relationships in DoveWing's silence that was willing to stay close to the Dark Forest trainees, which may have caused the Clan to shun him similarly.
ik im Two years late but this makes so much sense I always believed that too🥹😭😭
I really like Thornclaw, him and Blossomfall are a really funny pair. The fact that Blossomfall would always follow him and try to be like him is really cute 😂
I really like him to be honest....even if he is a little asshole sometimes.... but that's part of his character .He's supposed to be this super though guy.Its so interesting that people potray him as workaholic and i think that the authors should play more with that.A good exemple Moonkitti made was that he didn't want to retire to the elders den and that maybe he would die over working himself...or....just something bad happens and he learns a lesson.
Anyways great video! 💛💚
In my rewrite I have Thornclaw train in the because Thistleclaw visits him and kind of preys on his anger issues. Thornclaw is trusted to lead all these patrols, he has an new apprentice every story arc (until he is discovered training in the dark forest) and puts a lot of time and care into training them, but no one pays any attention to statements he makes during clan meetings. In Sunrise when they were discussing what do do about Ashfur turning up murdered Thornclaw really wants to make a plan to find whoever did this and make them regret messing with his clan but Firestar specifically told Brambleclaw to keep Thornclaw under watch because he didn't trust him to behave rationally (again his friend was murdered). When Lionblaze is trying to guess who could be and could not be corrupted he deduces that Thornclaw could because he is a hot-head who likes problem cats... kinda true, but also if these examples any indication of how "noble" cats talk about him when he is not around, I can see why he feels more comfortable around problem cats.
But anyway in my Au darkforest trainees start out with one darkforest mentor who is someone they do not know to be suspicious of, then are introduced to the others once their original mentor is sure that they have control of this living cats loyalty. Thistleclaw smells like Thunderclan and is not in any stories Thornclaw heard growing up, so Thornclaw is originally flattered that this ancient spirit cat wants to help him get stronger. He also feels validated every time Thistleclaw tell him that his anger is justified, a driving force, it's his way of loving his clan, the cats who talk negatively about him just do not understand...
Thornclaw realizes all of this was a trap when Thistleclaw takes him to meet "more cats who think and feel like us" and he looks up see's the two monsters that haunted his kit and apprentice-hood (Brokenstar and Tigerstar). He wants to leave after that, but stays because to his great shame, being brave is a point of pride for him and he thought he was past this, he finds that he still remembers all the trauma these cats put him and his clan through when he was young, and is afraid of them. (Reminder Brokenstar kit-napped, threatened, and imprisoned Thorn and his littermates. Thornpaw was an apprentice when Tigerclaw/star was a rouge/Shadowclan leader that hid in the shadows waiting to pick Thunderlcan off one by one (or all at once with the dogs)), It takes Thornclaw moons of trying, and support from clanmates, to finally break away and he fights for the clans. But he injures is front foot in the battle and it does not heal right. That, plus old injuries from previous battles, plus the emotional toll all of this takes on Thornclaw sends has him retire to the elders den, along with Birchfall. From there he gives other cats advice on how to be brave on patrols, but also to recognize what important things fears are trying to tell them,. Also how to find balance between wanting to prove yourself and excepting that you aren't going to be able to be perfect. woo Long post,
the patrol guy 😔
we need more character in thornpaw
He's a pretty sad cat and I have a long head cannon for him. Also the fact that 2/4 of his apprentices where injured/killed also his father died when he was a kit, he got kidnapped. Etc. maybe he wanted to become leader to make his fathers legacy alive Lionheart that is.
1: I'm number 8!
2: Ooh, like your Swiftpaw design! Your art in general is simple, yet great to look at. All I got to say.
Mousewhisker trodded beside Thornclaw. Without his sister Hazeltail to spend time with, he’d been talking to the older Tom a lot more. “So? Why did you train in the dark forest?” Mousewhisker asked before stuttering out, “not that you had to tell me I just yknow.” “Nah kid, it’s fine. I just, thought training there would help me face the expectations laid out for me by my kin and friends. They have legacies to uphold you know? I wanted one too” Thornclaw murmured. “Really…? Me to. I wanted to live up to the example Hazeltail and Berrynose set, to me, they were model warriors”. “We have a lot more in common then we thought huh?” Thornclaw smiled at him, “your a good kid Mousewhisker”.
Just discovered your channel and I gotta say that it's already one im loving keep up the good work bro!
I like these videos where you go in depth on your interpretations of characters and essentially give them more consistent personalities and actual reasons for why they behave the way they do. I’m reading your rewrite fanfic currently, I love what you’ve done with Hollyleaf and Cinderpaw/heart and Mousewhisker so far. would you consider doing a video like this about Breezepaw/pelt in the future?
also, I’m still reading, and I never thought Lionblaze could be such an interesting character. he’s actually become one of my favorites in your rewrite, and I never cared about him at all in the original series
I honestly hate and love Thornclaw for his entitled behavior during the Broken Code. While Firestars lineage has been seemingly favored, he acts like a brat. I also hate Lionblaze I’m this arc for wanting to kill Shadowsight, the son of his apprentice Dovewing
I like to think that Thornclaw pretended to train in the dark forest to connect with Blossomfall... though this is a new idea and probably not a very stable one
Can't wait to read patrol comments
I keep getting bracken fur and thorn claw mixed up, might be because I picture them as a very similar colour
Makes sense
You should do a video on Cloudtail.
Am I some expert lol😂yes he was mentioned in the dark forest many times in OOTS !!!
I think he has gotten a bit of that attitude from Blossomfall
definitely
Yay!!! My baby is getting some attention!!!
I have my own headcanon surrounding his obsession with patrolling, his time in the darkforest, and how he fell in live with Blossomfall
Link to my amino post that goes more in depth aminoapps.com/p/eik2cp
TLDR of it: After all the tramua that happened to him in in younger years and has family (being stolen, watching Spotted being murdered, Cinder's injury, Bright's injury, Frostfur's death) He became determined to protect his family/other kits from dangers outside the borders so become obsessed with paroling.
Joined the darkforest to become stronger the protect clan. Related to Blossom feeling ignored by Millie as he two had injured sibling that took up a lot of his mother's attention.
A lot of these traits mentioned as being conflicting don't really strike me as being such. You can not want to lead the Clan yourself but be criticial if its done right, and scornful if its not done right. You can enjoy teaching other cats who you know are part of your group, and dislike interacting with others outside of the group. You can hate cats outside of your group and put up with training with cats who want to train you.
Thornclaw is a good character despite having a small amount of time in the spotlight. Now who will live longer: Thornclaw or Mistystar?
I honestly kinda liked Thornclaw's character for arcs 1-4, he seemed like a more outgoing and slightly more aggressive version of Brakenfur. However, starting with AVOS and going into TBC, I can't help but feel like as he gets older, Thornclaw is increasingly gaining "boomer" status with his more conservative views on the code, clan heirarchy and standing up for beliefs. It's like the writers are going out of their way to remind us that he was friends with Ashfur way back when. Well, at least he's an elder in the newest arc so he can be an official boomer now.
thornclaw has bills
Fr
I never understood the patrol joke.
He’s always patrolling or the first to volunteer.
hi sunny :-)
xD Hey Mea
Ahahah yes, one of the many cats I'd like to toss into oncoming traffic.