Missed you guys for a few years. finally getting around to doing aero on my '01 Z06, If I had you guys' pilot skills, Iprolly wouldnt' need aero on this car. Peace. Happy new year.
Russ and Adam's Garage could that be why 911's are great driver cars because of the engine weight sitting on the rear wheels? It seems like the rear spoiler is simulating that same effect.
I think you're onto something, I cut a lot of weight from the bird, but most of that came from the back. I think the Aero restored some of the balance to the car in that way. I think the 911 secret sauce is the extremely low center of gravity, although the rear engine has big benefits too. -Russ
Do you still have this car and plan on tracking it anytime soon? I would love to see more fbodies out on track. This video convinced me to add a lexan spoiler to the back of my 95 Bird trackcar. It really made a huge difference through fast corners like the esses at WGI and the back feels totally planted. Mine is easily adjustable and lays flat for street driving so my MPGs are decent.
Dive planes definitely function, they just likely didn't, based on the front end shape of the car and lack of a splitter to build pressure in the front. In the limited testing we did on GTM's, we usually found rear aero to be the easiest to extract downforce, but also drag from. It'd take away the front end immediately though. Generally, once a functional splitter gets added to the mix, along with dive planes, you'd start to balance out the rear. I've seen actual wind tunnel tests where dive planes definitely started to rapidly increase downforce. Often it's as simple as vehicle ride height and lack of rake overall. Plus, under acceleration, the car can get nose high, then your relative wind to the dive plane becomes near zero or worse, making them functionless. Nice vid man.
Thanks! Yeah the dive planes certainly were pushing air up, and I bet we'd have seen a measurable difference if I had swapped to a stock airdam, but it was nowhere near as effective as the rear spoiler. -Russ
I had a spoiler at about 5" tall on my s550 and it cost me about 3-4mpg as well, and it got worse as speeds increased (as one would expect) very cool vid guys!
Russ and Adam's Garage yeah, its a suprising amount of drag, especially on cars like tge f body, and s550 that have super clean rear window lines...the air is still very much attatched down close to the body back of the fastback lines. On a coupe car with a more abrupt rear window/deck the air seperates more, making a spoiler like that less effective, less drag, less downforce because its in turbulant air, rather than the super clean, attatched air you have on a f body, s550 ect
Lip spoilers like that work because they are pulling down but also back on the rear of the car, so they create a ton of drag. Same for the Z06 spoiler. Cars that use underbody rear diffusers generate much less drag, as they primarily create only downforce. Even a dedicated rear wing would create less drag than the lip spoiler, but that is a much larger piece of hardware.
Have you heard/ever seen the slp iroc spoiler hatch for these cars. I wonder if that would improve rear downforce as well. I've always loved that hatch but is really rare.
The 2:26(spoiler) and 2:28(clean) were the grand full course. Adam jumped in and did 3 2:29's with 0 previous laps in the Firebird with the spoiler. His Boss 302 ran a 2:17 on the same day on 305 Pirelli slicks probably the stickiest tire ever made. . The car definitely had a lot more in it. I ran a 2:27 in the C5 Z06 in better weather with tiny 245 MPSS tires on all 4 corners.
yes i know this is a old video and this is really cool info. ....... how is this only getting 700 views ..... as a 4th gen fbody guy ... I think your labeling this wrong because I found this channel by accident (was looking at Nürburgring ring stuff and came across your channel by accident when I saw your 4 gen fbody laps from years ago).
"The jokes on your GM... they don't work". Really? Where is your proof to back up this claim? Oh, wait you tried so homemade version on your car and didn't see an improvement and concluded they are ineffective. Got it. That said, you did take into consideration the actual aerodynamics of the two vehicles' front ends? How about CFD modeling? No, you did not. Do a little research and you will see this is a very important factor that will influence the dimension, shape, and placement of these parts. I'm all for doing it at home but come on you are outing GM for something you have little to no experience with? Do you think they would spend the time, effort, and expense to include these if they didn't work? 1LE cars are not built for the "fast and futile" crowd, but rather for true enthusiasts and the option has a long history of performance. So I'm going to say no, no they would not.
Missed you guys for a few years. finally getting around to doing aero on my '01 Z06, If I had you guys' pilot skills, Iprolly wouldnt' need aero on this car. Peace. Happy new year.
Amazing information.
Thanks!
Russ and Adam's Garage could that be why 911's are great driver cars because of the engine weight sitting on the rear wheels? It seems like the rear spoiler is simulating that same effect.
I think you're onto something, I cut a lot of weight from the bird, but most of that came from the back. I think the Aero restored some of the balance to the car in that way.
I think the 911 secret sauce is the extremely low center of gravity, although the rear engine has big benefits too.
-Russ
Glad to see you guys made it to 1k. I hope to be in the same boat.
Thanks! You've got 1 more sub. Good luck!
Do you still have this car and plan on tracking it anytime soon? I would love to see more fbodies out on track.
This video convinced me to add a lexan spoiler to the back of my 95 Bird trackcar. It really made a huge difference through fast corners like the esses at WGI and the back feels totally planted. Mine is easily adjustable and lays flat for street driving so my MPGs are decent.
That's some cool information... It makes me wonder if you'd be able to tell the difference of a trans am wing vs your firebird spoiler.
It's be a fun test! I bet you could, and it'd have less drag.
Dive planes definitely function, they just likely didn't, based on the front end shape of the car and lack of a splitter to build pressure in the front. In the limited testing we did on GTM's, we usually found rear aero to be the easiest to extract downforce, but also drag from. It'd take away the front end immediately though. Generally, once a functional splitter gets added to the mix, along with dive planes, you'd start to balance out the rear. I've seen actual wind tunnel tests where dive planes definitely started to rapidly increase downforce. Often it's as simple as vehicle ride height and lack of rake overall. Plus, under acceleration, the car can get nose high, then your relative wind to the dive plane becomes near zero or worse, making them functionless. Nice vid man.
Thanks! Yeah the dive planes certainly were pushing air up, and I bet we'd have seen a measurable difference if I had swapped to a stock airdam, but it was nowhere near as effective as the rear spoiler.
-Russ
I had a spoiler at about 5" tall on my s550 and it cost me about 3-4mpg as well, and it got worse as speeds increased (as one would expect) very cool vid guys!
Thanks! I was surprised by how much it hurt. I wish we still had the autobahn to test the top speed. No way it's hitting 173mph now.
-Russ
Russ and Adam's Garage yeah, its a suprising amount of drag, especially on cars like tge f body, and s550 that have super clean rear window lines...the air is still very much attatched down close to the body back of the fastback lines. On a coupe car with a more abrupt rear window/deck the air seperates more, making a spoiler like that less effective, less drag, less downforce because its in turbulant air, rather than the super clean, attatched air you have on a f body, s550 ect
Russ and Adam's Garage also, im sure its a pretty good hit on top speed too
Lip spoilers like that work because they are pulling down but also back on the rear of the car, so they create a ton of drag. Same for the Z06 spoiler. Cars that use underbody rear diffusers generate much less drag, as they primarily create only downforce. Even a dedicated rear wing would create less drag than the lip spoiler, but that is a much larger piece of hardware.
Have you heard/ever seen the slp iroc spoiler hatch for these cars. I wonder if that would improve rear downforce as well. I've always loved that hatch but is really rare.
I hadn't, so I googled it, that'd be a good choice too. Looks like it might add some weight, but definitely some downforce.
-Russ
Russ and Adam's Garage yea I was thinking street I know it weighs a ton. Just wonder if it would have some effect.
What size z06 wheels are those? They looks badass, I may have to pick a set up for my 02 camaro
01-04
Russ and Adam's Garage they’re just stock?
Yep. Stock 4 rear wheels. The 18x10.5
That's an amazing difference for just a rear spoiler! What shock settings were you running for the clear vs. rear spoiler?
4 clicks front on both.
W/spolier I think it was 1.5 turns out of 3.
Clean .25 turns up from full soft.
What times did you turn at NCM grand full course?
The 2:26(spoiler) and 2:28(clean) were the grand full course.
Adam jumped in and did 3 2:29's with 0 previous laps in the Firebird with the spoiler.
His Boss 302 ran a 2:17 on the same day on 305 Pirelli slicks probably the stickiest tire ever made. .
The car definitely had a lot more in it. I ran a 2:27 in the C5 Z06 in better weather with tiny 245 MPSS tires on all 4 corners.
That’s fast times! About as quick as possible on that track. Fun course I love it.
yes i know this is a old video and this is really cool info. ....... how is this only getting 700 views ..... as a 4th gen fbody guy ...
I think your labeling this wrong because I found this channel by accident
(was looking at Nürburgring ring stuff and came across your channel by accident when I saw your 4 gen fbody laps from years ago).
Thanks for the heads up! I really don't understand the UA-cam algorithm, but I'll try some different tags maybe?
@@russandadamsgarage105 yes definitely
"The jokes on your GM... they don't work". Really? Where is your proof to back up this claim? Oh, wait you tried so homemade version on your car and didn't see an improvement and concluded they are ineffective. Got it. That said, you did take into consideration the actual aerodynamics of the two vehicles' front ends? How about CFD modeling? No, you did not. Do a little research and you will see this is a very important factor that will influence the dimension, shape, and placement of these parts. I'm all for doing it at home but come on you are outing GM for something you have little to no experience with? Do you think they would spend the time, effort, and expense to include these if they didn't work? 1LE cars are not built for the "fast and futile" crowd, but rather for true enthusiasts and the option has a long history of performance. So I'm going to say no, no they would not.