Thrilled you posted this AJ! While the 303 seems pretty darn epic for an extra 4 lbs of weight, I'm not sure I'm at the level where I'd need the extra power and spend USD$1660 more. At USD$2960 for the 202 you get more thrust, 400 hours between overhauls (vs Moster 185's 100 hours), better fuel economy, no belt, and liquid cooling, it sure seems like the 202 handily beats out the Vittorazi Moster 185 Plus across the board, but for weight, and is more equivalent in thrust to the Factory R which costs USD$1,440 more than the 202. I'm also encouraged hearing you too had some challenges tuning the Dell'Orto carb. I heard rumblings that 202s burned pistons, but it sounds like new owners over-trusting the factory settings and jets and not watching their EGT and knowing the engine's limits or how to tune a non-Walbro float bowl carb. Excellent detail. I'd love to have you post a video about comparing weight shift vs fixed J Bars on frames -- who uses fixed, who uses weight shift, pros and cons of each for different types of flying, etc. My first (and only) motor was fixed J bars, and I got to fly a weight shift rig a few weeks ago, and I hated it. Granted, I'm 6'4" 270lbs so maybe it wasn't the right size, but I guess I didn't like the fact that I had to do more things to turn tightly. I get the argument that it's "nice" to make small adjustments in heading just by leaning, but beyond that, I feel like weight shift either fights me or I have to do more work by throwing my body into a turn. Yes, I'm lazy. Thus my request for a true comparison for why fixed J Bars exist, why virtually nobody sells a non-weight-shift frame, and for people who don't use weight shift, why do they not?
@@journeymanelectrician Thanks for the reply! I ended up engaging with Power2Fly. The modified a Titan XL Frame with Fixed J-Bars. I'm burning in my new Thor 202 this weekend and hope to get at least the first flight in! Hoping the weather cooperates. :-) Cheers! I'll post updates on my channel, ua-cam.com/users/ooglek
@@SR-gs8zo 65 hours on mine with no issues. I'm quite sure I know things, I'm not sure why you're choosing to insult people rather than present data. The Moster 185 with 130cm prop and a 2.87 reduction gives you about 75 kg of thrust. I flew with this configuration for 3 years. It was sufficient most of the time, though in places where there were shorter takeoffs, I did wish I had more power. It consumed about 6 liters per hour for my weight and wing and flying style. The Polini Thor 202 with 130cm prop is 90 kg of thrust, 20% more than the Moster 185. I will assume, however with no extra data to provide, that 140cm prop would give you more thrust, or the same amount of thrust with lower fuel consumption, or both. This gives me a delightful amount of available thrust, flying a 31m wing and about 350 lbs all up weight. I'm confused why you believe you know everything and everyone else knows nothing. I don't fly an airplane, so I do not comment nor shame others for such things. I do fly a paramotor and have for 3.7 years. There's a difference about what an engine can provide flight to and whether or not you are just barely getting into the air or you have power to spare to get out of tight situations. Yes, both engines can be put on ultralights and maybe even light sport planes, and yes, both engines can get some pilots, depending on weight, into the air with room to spare. And yes, both engines can also be strapped to your back and flown with paramotors. Talk to me about facts, don't insult people you do not know about how you believe your knowledge and judgement is somehow superior when you have no idea who we are. I do not know who you are, and you could be an aerospace engineer, but note how I haven't insulted your opinion or experience, only the way you communicate. People stop listening when you insult them, so if you want to influence people, try a different approach.
If you ever feel like doing a video on HOW to tune the carb of a Polini Thor 202 and 303, and what to look for on your temperature sensor or RPM ranges to know that you should make adjustments, that'd be awesome.
This is a phenomenal review. Thank you for this! My 202 arrives this week, and we'll go on my fly products frame. If I love it, it may pivot to that Liberty frame. Really good info. Thank you!
Hi AJ, thank you for your reviews. Lots of good info. Please le me know more about the remote choke. Where to purchase? I have a trike with elec start and if I don't warm the hell out of it I have to choke again. It would be so good to have that accessable. Tks!
I’m new to paramount as I I wana get into it but don’t know what to get I was thinking the 303 that way I could do tandem later if I chose I’m 240 lbs Is the 303 2 stroke or 4
I had a very early 202, it did not come with them but they sent me some later (so I’m not certain they come with them, I imagine they do now) My 303 did come with a complete set of jets.
@@Awkbots that's great to hear they come with them. I would prefer a float slide carb for the ability to really dial in the fuel ratio but I think for the majority of motor pilots it's to complex for them and would cause more grounded frustrated pilots.
@@MitchG I could easily see it being frustrating for some people that don’t understand two strokes, because the behavior of these motors is a little confusing at times. It acts a little different when it’s too rich than any bike I’ve ever had. But I’m with you, I like this style carb far more!
@@Awkbots Me too. One guy burn hole in piston Jetts set for his normal 5000ft altitude with non alcohol gas. For got to re jet salton sea and could not get non alcohol gas that will burn you and a burnt hole in piston.
That there were a couple of issues that were resolved extremely fast by Polini. And that it’s the best motors on the market. They are not for everyone for sure and for a beginner freakish out of training I’m going to recommend a moster to 98% of them.
What Spark Plug cap did you replace the stock one with, and what spark plugs are you using? I know Polini recommends NGK BR9ES, some have suggested the BR9EG too which may reduce fouling for about $1 more per plug. Just curious if it is a resistor-type cap and a non-resistor plug or vice versa (or both, but I believe you don't want BOTH).
Hey AJ -- I'd love to hear if you're still enjoying the Polini Thor 202/303? I got mine (202) and started flying it in April 2022, foot launch. It's been great! I'm using non-ethanol 93 octane with AMSOIL SABER 2.5%. About 65 hours on it. My head is too big and blocks the air intake for the radiator, not sure how I'm gonna solve that. Mostly on hot days I just fly with my head down for a few seconds and things cool off! Doh.
I am having Kirk Moser order 1 thru aviator for me can you help sales to get the same frame and 303 motor harness in small and I like 3 blade eprop for him. Trike in the salom retract trike. Your review made me have him order 1 for me.
Get the Moster 185 with 130cm or larger if your frame can handle it prop. Everyone flies it and you'll get a lot more help. Spend 100+ hours on the Moster 185, get to know all the things and maintenance with it, then you'll be better equipped to deal with the new challenges a Thor 202 might provide. I'm guessing you'll have some crashes and fails as you learn, and the lack of that radiator will keep the costs of repair lower and easier on a Moster 185 than a Thor 202. Keep your Moster 185 in good working condition, then sell it when you have 100+ hours and get a Thor 202 if you still feel you need more power.
Good question, I have not seen the 303 get even close to questionable temps yet in flight. That being said I purposely left out the thermostat considering it doesn’t really get cold very often here in flordia. Warm up is a tad longer because of that but in general the cooling system just works great all around. I imagine up north in cooler temps the thermostat (included) may need to be used, but also I do know some people put a neoprene sleeve over their radiator to keep temps up. The 202 got a little warmer when on bar for long periods of time. But not concerning.
@@jensfalck_TheSwede oh wow, you are right, On the older video I definitely misspoke, i was just randomly talking during flight so I imagine that’s why, I already have a problem with speaking as fast as my mind moves esp during flight lol. I have never burned that much even when I flew it with stock jetting which is way too rich. I burn less than 3 liters an hour. Even the 202 never burned over 5 liters an hour.
In my previous video I talk about it quite a bit. I am too heavily loaded on this wing to make an accurate review. I’m waiting for the proper sized wing before I make a good review of it
@@Awkbots after freeride it looks like viper is less controllable and maneuverable. Don’t know maybe brake and ear lines length not set properly by manufacturer.
No much difference between 130-140 cm e-prop. Maybe 2kg in static turst on the ground. But the noise of 140cm eprop hmmm for me, this disqualifies 140 cm propeller. I prefer the 3 blade 130 cm adjustable propeller. Same trust less noise.
@@Awkbots I am not saying that it is not. But my experience with a 140cm propeller is completely different. It's terribly loud and I don't feel that it is stronger than 3 blades.
Nice review. I have been able to mount a AC Tornado onto a Fly Products Flash Cruiser. I'd like more power... and I'd like something like this to use for foot launch tandems, trike tandems, and to just go have a blast. I am close to your weight, if not a little heavier..... and I did get a 19m Freeride that has me wanting more power over the Moster 185 I usually fly (on a Maverick) Do you think this would mount up OK with the Flash Cruiser? Eyeballing it, it looks like it could be pretty easy to make work, but since you have both products handy, you might know the answer or have already done it.
Yes it will work on a fly products frame, however fly products has a very specific frame for every single motor, not only for the mounting bolts, but also the torque compensation. So the air conception is belt drive and offsetting torque for a moster or air conception even if the bolt patterns are the same. But polini is different boot pattern, but also gear drive there for needing torque compensation for the other direction. The torque compensation needed for a 303 is huge, due to its thrust and power. I would argue that no torque compensation at all could potentially be dangerous, but having the wrong compensation would not work.
@@Awkbots good point on opposite torque compensation, but I can't see that the flash cruiser trike itself has any torque compensation. The trike itself is symmetrical that I can see. I'd want to mount the liberty frame on the trike, so the liberty frame would be doing the torque compensation, right? Thinking that could work. The tornado on the AC frame mounted to the flash cruiser seems to do just fine ... I just want more power for tandems.
Yes it burned a hole in piston. It will for everyone with out av gas. It’s happening everywhere even overseas due to high compression and not high enough octane (even higher than what is recommended. Mine was jetted rich, ran cool and still burned a hole so it’s an compression octane issue. Waiting to hear back on official word what’s happening with replacement before making post or announcement
@@Awkbots Thx so much for sharing! But they have sent out a statement "Alert pdf". Given this almost is US problem alone maybe it is the gas at fault but seems even with our higher octane here in EU the motor doesn't leave much room for margins. To bad because I really want the performance it offers. Not really any other good options out there.
@@jensfalck_TheSwede Its an amazing motor, i think it will still be great with 100ll av gas or the lower compression head. It has been happening everywhere, but more so here in the states. I cant wait to get mine back and flying a 303 again, I love it and until that point i have not had a single engine out or complaint on the motor. I have zero complaints with the motor and how the situation has been handled up until this point. I hope to release a video of my experience with the motor soon.
@@Awkbots I've been considering using Octane Booster like Rislone 4747. For $2.50 a bottle it claims to boost octane by 20 points (2 octane levels) for 20 gallons. If 93 octane (US PON) non-ethanol isn't good for the 303, I guess I should pick some up for my Thor 202 to avoid a hole in the piston. @awkBOTS I'll be curious to find out if the new piston Polini has sent out will reduce compression enough to be able to use premium 93 octane (US PON) mogas, with or without octane booster, in both the Thor 202 and 303. If you receive it and get it installed, I know all of us PPG nerds would love a new video!
@@jensfalck_TheSwede Our gas is not at fault here. Europe measures octane differently than we do in the US, but it is roughly the same octane, just different numbers. Europe uses RON (Research Octane Number), US uses PON (Pump Octane Number). The gist: - RON (EU) PON (US) - 90 86.5 - 92 88.5 - 95 91 - 97 93 - 100 95.75 95 Octane in Europe is the same as 91 Octane in the US. Most stations offer 87, 89, and 91 octane as regular, plus, and premium. Some stations also offer 93 ultra premium. For Polini Thor 202 and 303, it is sounding like you want the highest octane you can get, and then add octane booster, and get non-ethanol absolutely. People are getting 100LL Avgas to avoid this, but I think it is silly to pay $5.50 a gallon PLUS buying Decalin to avoid/reduce lead fouling when you could get 91 to 93 octane (US PON) non-ethanol for like $3.50/gallon and buy some octane booster to get it to say 93 or even 95 octane. Or hell bump it to 100 octane if you think it will save your piston! I am NOT a professional mechanic, I just have flown paramotors for 2 years. Octane does NOT change the fuel energy content, it only changes how the fuel burns and reduces the likelihood of premature combustion due to high compression, which is advantageous here since, while in cars they have ECUs with knock sensors to change the fuel air mix on the fly, we do not. Maybe I'll just spend a few extra bucks and always mix my fuel to 95 octane (US PON) to avoid the piston hole. I'm pretty sure higher octane gas will NOT cost me more than a piston. My Math for a 5 gallon gas can full of 95 octane (US PON) mogas + detergents: - $17.50 93 octane (US PON) non-ethanol is $3.50/gallon at my go to lawn care joint - $0.625 Add 1.5 oz of Rislone 4747 Octane booster (1/4 bottle) to get octane to 95 - $0.4675 Add 1 oz of Seafoam to keep the exhaust port and other stuff clean and clear - $4.20 Add 12.8oz of AMSOIL SABER - $22.80 TOTAL (about $4.56/gallon fully mixed) This is still way less than 100LL Avgas plus Rislone, and I'd still add Seafoam to that. aircooledbug.co.uk/usa-versus-uk-fuel-octane/ motocrossactionmag.com/ask-the-mxperts-why-does-euro-fuel-have-so-much-more-octane-than-american-fuel-2/
why could you not kill the motor when the problem was that your cable got stuck on the carb. or did the kill switch did not work either? seems like two problems
Three problems, kill switch was broke (I knew about it but wanted to fly again). Second problem, throttle cable got pulled out and would not return to idle. Third and most important, I did not preflight the throttle to make sure it returned before starting the motor
@@Awkbots Please be more safety conscious! We don’t want to lose any more aviation people! Especially a person like you that gives a straight up review of an engine.
I'm a little over 300 lbs and this video is doing so much to let me know there's probably a paramotor out there for me. Liked & subscribed. :)
Same boat as you, a little over 300 lbs and have been watching Tucker Gott for years now always thinking to myself "i'm too fat to fly".
That past motocross experience coming out in motor tuning. Excellent safety concern discussion. Thanks AJ for keeping us safe brother.
Thrilled you posted this AJ! While the 303 seems pretty darn epic for an extra 4 lbs of weight, I'm not sure I'm at the level where I'd need the extra power and spend USD$1660 more.
At USD$2960 for the 202 you get more thrust, 400 hours between overhauls (vs Moster 185's 100 hours), better fuel economy, no belt, and liquid cooling, it sure seems like the 202 handily beats out the Vittorazi Moster 185 Plus across the board, but for weight, and is more equivalent in thrust to the Factory R which costs USD$1,440 more than the 202.
I'm also encouraged hearing you too had some challenges tuning the Dell'Orto carb. I heard rumblings that 202s burned pistons, but it sounds like new owners over-trusting the factory settings and jets and not watching their EGT and knowing the engine's limits or how to tune a non-Walbro float bowl carb. Excellent detail.
I'd love to have you post a video about comparing weight shift vs fixed J Bars on frames -- who uses fixed, who uses weight shift, pros and cons of each for different types of flying, etc. My first (and only) motor was fixed J bars, and I got to fly a weight shift rig a few weeks ago, and I hated it. Granted, I'm 6'4" 270lbs so maybe it wasn't the right size, but I guess I didn't like the fact that I had to do more things to turn tightly. I get the argument that it's "nice" to make small adjustments in heading just by leaning, but beyond that, I feel like weight shift either fights me or I have to do more work by throwing my body into a turn. Yes, I'm lazy. Thus my request for a true comparison for why fixed J Bars exist, why virtually nobody sells a non-weight-shift frame, and for people who don't use weight shift, why do they not?
@@journeymanelectrician Thanks for the reply! I ended up engaging with Power2Fly. The modified a Titan XL Frame with Fixed J-Bars. I'm burning in my new Thor 202 this weekend and hope to get at least the first flight in! Hoping the weather cooperates. :-) Cheers! I'll post updates on my channel, ua-cam.com/users/ooglek
@@SR-gs8zo 65 hours on mine with no issues. I'm quite sure I know things, I'm not sure why you're choosing to insult people rather than present data.
The Moster 185 with 130cm prop and a 2.87 reduction gives you about 75 kg of thrust. I flew with this configuration for 3 years. It was sufficient most of the time, though in places where there were shorter takeoffs, I did wish I had more power. It consumed about 6 liters per hour for my weight and wing and flying style.
The Polini Thor 202 with 130cm prop is 90 kg of thrust, 20% more than the Moster 185. I will assume, however with no extra data to provide, that 140cm prop would give you more thrust, or the same amount of thrust with lower fuel consumption, or both. This gives me a delightful amount of available thrust, flying a 31m wing and about 350 lbs all up weight.
I'm confused why you believe you know everything and everyone else knows nothing. I don't fly an airplane, so I do not comment nor shame others for such things. I do fly a paramotor and have for 3.7 years. There's a difference about what an engine can provide flight to and whether or not you are just barely getting into the air or you have power to spare to get out of tight situations.
Yes, both engines can be put on ultralights and maybe even light sport planes, and yes, both engines can get some pilots, depending on weight, into the air with room to spare. And yes, both engines can also be strapped to your back and flown with paramotors.
Talk to me about facts, don't insult people you do not know about how you believe your knowledge and judgement is somehow superior when you have no idea who we are. I do not know who you are, and you could be an aerospace engineer, but note how I haven't insulted your opinion or experience, only the way you communicate. People stop listening when you insult them, so if you want to influence people, try a different approach.
Awesome video!!! Thanks for your efforts friend
comprehensive review and useful tips. Thanks!
If you ever feel like doing a video on HOW to tune the carb of a Polini Thor 202 and 303, and what to look for on your temperature sensor or RPM ranges to know that you should make adjustments, that'd be awesome.
That would be perfect!
This is a phenomenal review. Thank you for this! My 202 arrives this week, and we'll go on my fly products frame. If I love it, it may pivot to that Liberty frame. Really good info. Thank you!
Halfway through and ready to upgrade from my 250 to 303. Nice review AJ!
have you upgraded your 250 to 303 is this possible? thanks
Great review, thank you. As I transition to another motor it's got me thinking about the Polini 202 now!
Nice edit dood!
This will likely be a popular engine on light, 3 axis single seat aircraft such as the Sherwood Kub. Looks like a fantastic engine.
It’s being tested in some now, like the Kolb firefly
@@Awkbots Awesome, that's a great aircraft for it.
Works great on a Badland. :)
@@badlandaircraft9504 Your planes are so cool!
Nice Liberty frame
I'm anxious
Also, 3:01 Aj is out climbing me
Have you put on a smart carb yet?
Great review by the way
Hi AJ, thank you for your reviews. Lots of good info. Please le me know more about the remote choke. Where to purchase? I have a trike with elec start and if I don't warm the hell out of it I have to choke again. It would be so good to have that accessable. Tks!
I’m new to paramount as I I wana get into it but don’t know what to get I was thinking the 303 that way I could do tandem later if I chose I’m 240 lbs Is the 303 2 stroke or 4
Very nice presentation !
Where did you get the remote choke?
Does the 202 and 303 come with different jets and needles or did you have to buy them separately?
I had a very early 202, it did not come with them but they sent me some later (so I’m not certain they come with them, I imagine they do now)
My 303 did come with a complete set of jets.
@@Awkbots that's great to hear they come with them. I would prefer a float slide carb for the ability to really dial in the fuel ratio but I think for the majority of motor pilots it's to complex for them and would cause more grounded frustrated pilots.
@@MitchG I could easily see it being frustrating for some people that don’t understand two strokes, because the behavior of these motors is a little confusing at times. It acts a little different when it’s too rich than any bike I’ve ever had. But I’m with you, I like this style carb far more!
@@Awkbots Me too. One guy burn hole in piston Jetts set for his normal 5000ft altitude with non alcohol gas. For got to re jet salton sea and could not get non alcohol gas that will burn you and a burnt hole in piston.
@@MXWaveRider do you mean non-ethanol?
I'm seeing a lot of bad press on the 303, what do you think about that?
That there were a couple of issues that were resolved extremely fast by Polini. And that it’s the best motors on the market. They are not for everyone for sure and for a beginner freakish out of training I’m going to recommend a moster to 98% of them.
how much thrust are you getting on your 303 with 140 cm prop ?
9 months ago... i was about ask the same. seems we will never get an answer
What Spark Plug cap did you replace the stock one with, and what spark plugs are you using? I know Polini recommends NGK BR9ES, some have suggested the BR9EG too which may reduce fouling for about $1 more per plug. Just curious if it is a resistor-type cap and a non-resistor plug or vice versa (or both, but I believe you don't want BOTH).
Hey AJ -- I'd love to hear if you're still enjoying the Polini Thor 202/303? I got mine (202) and started flying it in April 2022, foot launch. It's been great! I'm using non-ethanol 93 octane with AMSOIL SABER 2.5%. About 65 hours on it. My head is too big and blocks the air intake for the radiator, not sure how I'm gonna solve that. Mostly on hot days I just fly with my head down for a few seconds and things cool off! Doh.
I am having Kirk Moser order 1 thru aviator for me can you help sales to get the same frame and 303 motor harness in small and I like 3 blade eprop for him. Trike in the salom retract trike. Your review made me have him order 1 for me.
Amazing
New pilot. 1st motor 225lbs. Monster 185 or thor 202?
@awkBOTS what would you suggest?
@awkBOTS what would you suggest?
@awkBOTS what would you suggest?
@awkBOTS what would you suggest?
Get the Moster 185 with 130cm or larger if your frame can handle it prop. Everyone flies it and you'll get a lot more help. Spend 100+ hours on the Moster 185, get to know all the things and maintenance with it, then you'll be better equipped to deal with the new challenges a Thor 202 might provide. I'm guessing you'll have some crashes and fails as you learn, and the lack of that radiator will keep the costs of repair lower and easier on a Moster 185 than a Thor 202.
Keep your Moster 185 in good working condition, then sell it when you have 100+ hours and get a Thor 202 if you still feel you need more power.
Are there limitations on the 303 water cooling and flight temperatures? Great Review.
Good question, I have not seen the 303 get even close to questionable temps yet in flight. That being said I purposely left out the thermostat considering it doesn’t really get cold very often here in flordia. Warm up is a tad longer because of that but in general the cooling system just works great all around. I imagine up north in cooler temps the thermostat (included) may need to be used, but also I do know some people put a neoprene sleeve over their radiator to keep temps up.
The 202 got a little warmer when on bar for long periods of time. But not concerning.
@@Awkbots where in Fl are you? I am in Dania beach and would love to get into this sport!! please let me know
Seems youre statement of 2.8L/h is under questioning... In your previous video you said the 303 uses 6L. Which is it??
What are you even talking about? I said the moster uses 6-7 liters of fuel when I fly it. My 303 uses 2.8. That is a fact for me.
ua-cam.com/video/JtWMUqzkBnU/v-deo.html In this video you say its using the same as the Moster (22:55)!?
@@jensfalck_TheSwede I do not say that. I’m very clear the difference between the 185-7L, 202-4.5L, and 303-2.8L
@@Awkbots Have you even watch what you say at 22:55 in the other video I linked to?? You say straight out the 303 uses 6L.
@@jensfalck_TheSwede oh wow, you are right, On the older video I definitely misspoke, i was just randomly talking during flight so I imagine that’s why, I already have a problem with speaking as fast as my mind moves esp during flight lol.
I have never burned that much even when I flew it with stock jetting which is way too rich. I burn less than 3 liters an hour. Even the 202 never burned over 5 liters an hour.
Please, make review of Viper 5 you fly! Thank you!
In my previous video I talk about it quite a bit. I am too heavily loaded on this wing to make an accurate review. I’m waiting for the proper sized wing before I make a good review of it
@@Awkbots after freeride it looks like viper is less controllable and maneuverable. Don’t know maybe brake and ear lines length not set properly by manufacturer.
@@reallife649 not quite sure what you mean. I’d say the opposite of what you said is true but again, I have not flown a properly loaded wing.
Haha. You need to change those useless pulleys to Ronstan. 20 and 30's on top.
I do actually have some laying here. Haven’t bothered to put them on
I have the 303 on a Flash Cruiser and it is pretty awesome.
Hi, what lights do you use on your frame?
No much difference between 130-140 cm e-prop. Maybe 2kg in static turst on the ground. But the noise of 140cm eprop hmmm for me, this disqualifies 140 cm propeller. I prefer the 3 blade 130 cm adjustable propeller. Same trust less noise.
I flew all those props and more and that was not my experience at all.
@@Awkbots I am not saying that it is not. But my experience with a 140cm propeller is completely different. It's terribly loud and I don't feel that it is stronger than 3 blades.
@@krzysztofbartnik the 140 helix prop is better than the eprop in my opinion
Nice review. I have been able to mount a AC Tornado onto a Fly Products Flash Cruiser. I'd like more power... and I'd like something like this to use for foot launch tandems, trike tandems, and to just go have a blast. I am close to your weight, if not a little heavier..... and I did get a 19m Freeride that has me wanting more power over the Moster 185 I usually fly (on a Maverick)
Do you think this would mount up OK with the Flash Cruiser? Eyeballing it, it looks like it could be pretty easy to make work, but since you have both products handy, you might know the answer or have already done it.
Yes it will work on a fly products frame, however fly products has a very specific frame for every single motor, not only for the mounting bolts, but also the torque compensation. So the air conception is belt drive and offsetting torque for a moster or air conception even if the bolt patterns are the same. But polini is different boot pattern, but also gear drive there for needing torque compensation for the other direction.
The torque compensation needed for a 303 is huge, due to its thrust and power. I would argue that no torque compensation at all could potentially be dangerous, but having the wrong compensation would not work.
@@Awkbots good point on opposite torque compensation, but I can't see that the flash cruiser trike itself has any torque compensation. The trike itself is symmetrical that I can see. I'd want to mount the liberty frame on the trike, so the liberty frame would be doing the torque compensation, right? Thinking that could work. The tornado on the AC frame mounted to the flash cruiser seems to do just fine ... I just want more power for tandems.
Is your 303 still working well or giving you problems as with other in US?
Yes it burned a hole in piston. It will for everyone with out av gas. It’s happening everywhere even overseas due to high compression and not high enough octane (even higher than what is recommended. Mine was jetted rich, ran cool and still burned a hole so it’s an compression octane issue.
Waiting to hear back on official word what’s happening with replacement before making post or announcement
@@Awkbots Thx so much for sharing! But they have sent out a statement "Alert pdf". Given this almost is US problem alone maybe it is the gas at fault but seems even with our higher octane here in EU the motor doesn't leave much room for margins. To bad because I really want the performance it offers. Not really any other good options out there.
@@jensfalck_TheSwede Its an amazing motor, i think it will still be great with 100ll av gas or the lower compression head. It has been happening everywhere, but more so here in the states. I cant wait to get mine back and flying a 303 again, I love it and until that point i have not had a single engine out or complaint on the motor. I have zero complaints with the motor and how the situation has been handled up until this point. I hope to release a video of my experience with the motor soon.
@@Awkbots I've been considering using Octane Booster like Rislone 4747. For $2.50 a bottle it claims to boost octane by 20 points (2 octane levels) for 20 gallons. If 93 octane (US PON) non-ethanol isn't good for the 303, I guess I should pick some up for my Thor 202 to avoid a hole in the piston.
@awkBOTS I'll be curious to find out if the new piston Polini has sent out will reduce compression enough to be able to use premium 93 octane (US PON) mogas, with or without octane booster, in both the Thor 202 and 303. If you receive it and get it installed, I know all of us PPG nerds would love a new video!
@@jensfalck_TheSwede Our gas is not at fault here. Europe measures octane differently than we do in the US, but it is roughly the same octane, just different numbers.
Europe uses RON (Research Octane Number), US uses PON (Pump Octane Number).
The gist:
- RON (EU) PON (US)
- 90 86.5
- 92 88.5
- 95 91
- 97 93
- 100 95.75
95 Octane in Europe is the same as 91 Octane in the US.
Most stations offer 87, 89, and 91 octane as regular, plus, and premium. Some stations also offer 93 ultra premium.
For Polini Thor 202 and 303, it is sounding like you want the highest octane you can get, and then add octane booster, and get non-ethanol absolutely.
People are getting 100LL Avgas to avoid this, but I think it is silly to pay $5.50 a gallon PLUS buying Decalin to avoid/reduce lead fouling when you could get 91 to 93 octane (US PON) non-ethanol for like $3.50/gallon and buy some octane booster to get it to say 93 or even 95 octane. Or hell bump it to 100 octane if you think it will save your piston!
I am NOT a professional mechanic, I just have flown paramotors for 2 years. Octane does NOT change the fuel energy content, it only changes how the fuel burns and reduces the likelihood of premature combustion due to high compression, which is advantageous here since, while in cars they have ECUs with knock sensors to change the fuel air mix on the fly, we do not.
Maybe I'll just spend a few extra bucks and always mix my fuel to 95 octane (US PON) to avoid the piston hole. I'm pretty sure higher octane gas will NOT cost me more than a piston.
My Math for a 5 gallon gas can full of 95 octane (US PON) mogas + detergents:
- $17.50 93 octane (US PON) non-ethanol is $3.50/gallon at my go to lawn care joint
- $0.625 Add 1.5 oz of Rislone 4747 Octane booster (1/4 bottle) to get octane to 95
- $0.4675 Add 1 oz of Seafoam to keep the exhaust port and other stuff clean and clear
- $4.20 Add 12.8oz of AMSOIL SABER
- $22.80 TOTAL (about $4.56/gallon fully mixed)
This is still way less than 100LL Avgas plus Rislone, and I'd still add Seafoam to that.
aircooledbug.co.uk/usa-versus-uk-fuel-octane/
motocrossactionmag.com/ask-the-mxperts-why-does-euro-fuel-have-so-much-more-octane-than-american-fuel-2/
why could you not kill the motor when the problem was that your cable got stuck on the carb. or did the kill switch did not work either? seems like two problems
Three problems, kill switch was broke (I knew about it but wanted to fly again). Second problem, throttle cable got pulled out and would not return to idle.
Third and most important, I did not preflight the throttle to make sure it returned before starting the motor
@@Awkbots Please be more safety conscious! We don’t want to lose any more aviation people! Especially a person like you that gives a straight up review of an engine.