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Tovia Singer - What is His Son's name
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- Опубліковано 12 лют 2014
- Audio:Truth2U
Video:Spiritualbabies.net
"Who has ascended into heaven, or descended?
Who has gathered the wind in His fists?
Who has bound the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name, and what is His Son's name,
If you know?" -- Proverbs 30:4 [Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)]
outreachjudaism.org
spiritualbabies.net
truth2U.org
Is there a 'HaMoshiach' in the Tanakh? Where is he? What does the phrase even mean?
Tovia, Jono and Jason take a look at 'messiah' in the Hebrew Bible.
Audio - Truth2U.org
Video - Spiritualbabies.net
Links:
FREE series on the book of Hebrews, 'Hebrew Roots',
• Hebrew Roots
To visit Jono at Truth2U...
www.Truth2U.org
To visit Jason at Spiritualbabies...
www.Spiritualbabies.net
and on Facebook...
Tovia Singer
tovia.singer...
Truth2U
/ truth2. .
Spiritualbabies
/ spiritualbabies
Thanks for watching!
Rabbi Singer is so right about the baggage former Christians carry is a real problem. I'm so thankful to Rabbis who are willing to help us past these things. I am at least sensible enough to seek the truth, but it sure does come up a lot.
And all that evidence is done by the Jews, the first followers of Jesus.
Rabbi tries to argue against his own citizens, and then blame us. Funny!
Do you know how comic rabbi appears to our eyes!
Like a little child holding a candy in his hand, claiming he didn't take it.
The teaching is pure truth.
Rabbi Tovias, please help me find in the original text regarding this: But King Solomon will be blessed, and David's throne will remain secure before the LORD forever."
Hashem bless you always.
@David Miles I mean this in the nicest way possible. You are out of your mind.
@G-dSLookingForU, you may be referring to the following verse spoken by Solomon:
1Kings 2:33 And their blood shall be requited upon the head of Joab, and upon the head of his seed for ever;
but upon David, and upon his seed, and upon his house, and upon his throne, shall there be peace for ever from Jehovah.
Very insightful as always...had to laugh at the water into wine ...what have I to do with you is almost like a comedy skit ...cmon do the trick
No no really I shouldn't. ?...im not on for another five minutes yet
well ok if you insist
Please fix the smoke alarm. Uuuggghhh
This is so weird. My smoke alarm started beeping a few minutes ago and the first message I read is this. Spooky.😂😂😂
They wrote a book for themselves to live or die by it. My African Dad. Shame on those who reject true God replacing Thee by a man created names. Dad.
It doesn't mean it's not ABOUT Shalomo though.... It was somebody who spoke these word about Shalomo in the time of Shalomo who was known as the son of Elohim.
All kings are a Mashiach, however kings don't wear the 'aboth in Psalm 2:3
Only son of Aharon High Priest does
Made to pattern as shown on the mountain of Al'ohiym
redsox: the reality remained on the mountain of God; only the pattern came down with Moses. So the real thing remained on the mountain... until Yeshua came, He is the reality, blessed forever.God bless you.
@@mariodiblasio8058 only thing yeshua did was be a false prophet and deserve death (that is if he did what the NT said he did)
Wow! So when these passages were pointed out to me as proof of Jesus, Yeshua, Yahoshua, Yahosha, Yahushua, Yahua (whatever the individual of his followers call him), being the 'son of god', it was obvious to me that 'the son' actually discussed, in the text, is CLEARLY, Agur.
I could not lie to myself enough to pretend that we are reading along, minding our own business and then, *BAM!*, the text is suddenly referring to some unknown future being or person, not known or understood by the persons who were actually listening to (or would read) the statement, at the time it was spoken, and does not remotely fit contextually. I also, cannot fathom anyone else being able to do that.
Even when I called myself a Christian, and then when I experienced a semi-brief Messianic, for lack of a better word, phase, I could not do that.
And with the details of this video, there is left no excuse for choosing to not correctly understand who 'the son' is, in Proverbs 30.4. None.
I have come to the conclusion that truly, if you define faith by pretending the words mean something other than what they say or convey and, in context, then your definition of faith equates to your lying to yourself.
There is no way the son in this passage is Agur. The rabbi never said this, and no one would say this. Agur is the one giving the prophecy.
All sons of Aaron are Mashiach, unless they get cut off, as Sharon's 2 oldest
And eventually Eliezars descendents up to Tzadok in days of David and Shlomo
redsox: Hi brother; read Psalm 110, about a Priest Who would be after the order of Malki-Tzedek with a Priesthood that would last forever; He would never die; an eternal priesthood. This is Yeshua.God bless you.
I believe Rabbi Tovia Singer interprets the Prologue of Johns Gospel like most Christians but there is a different way to interpret it.
In my opinion, John elevates the Torah as being Elohim. “In the beginning was the Word (Torah/Logos) and the word was with God (Elohim) and the Word (Torah/Logos) was God (Elohim).”
The Greek doesn’t differentiate between YHVH and Elohim. I don’t think John believes that the Torah or Logos in Greek, is YHVH. However he speaks about the Torah as if it is a person in the same way Proverbs speaks of wisdom as if it’s a person.
In John’s gospel Jesus is not a virgin birth but he is clearly identified as the son of Joseph. The Torah manifests in Jesus, it became flesh in him, however it doesn’t say how it happened. I assume Jesus did what the TeNaCh teaches, to meditate on the Torah day and night until it became flesh in him.
In John’s gospel Jesus became the son of God when John the Baptist saw the Spirit descend upon him.
We have different versions of the wording of the voice from heaven. Some say “This is my son in whom I’m well pleased.” While others say “You are my son, today I have begotten you”. The second is an earlier version which is also quoted by some church fathers. In the letter to the Hebrews it also only quotes the second version. This means that the baptism scene in reality was a coronation scene where Jesus became the messiah, the king of the Jews.
And when he was crucified, it was exactly because Rome would not tolerate a rival king. Pilate had to have him crucified and there was nothing the Jews could have done to persuade him to let Jesus go. Rome killed Jesus but unfortunately, to make Christianity popular amongst the Romans he was given a virgin birth and the blame for his death was shifted on to the Jews. They were the perfect scapegoat.
Cherry picking scriptures 😂 so proverbs 26 and on are wrong 👍🏽 son of God is anyone who does the work of God, ok 👍🏽 what is his name? Means nothing 👍🏽 interesting how you skip over that part 🤔
I enjoyed the video The Christians anti-messiah looking and pointing out and looking for the anti-messiah. They are so confused.Seem as though they have fabricated them some damnation.
Rabbi, i think What True God of all Gods is a pure heart. But the watchers say you can not go to heaven until you accept Jesus. This is a great crime done against humanity. Why? Anyway, i do not need their heaven. We Africans have our owns. This is the land of Elijah's Enoch and melketsadik. But we do not need anyone to be saved. We came from higher plane to experience our desire, then we go, because we are children, not slaves. But wow...
The answer is nobody at that time
The whole book of 'John' is probably fiction..
Every word of the NT is true. Just like every word of the OT is true.
David is the son's name Psalm 2:7
G-dsLookingForU: Hi; David ruled as king 40 years and then he died.The one Psalm 2 speaks about, is Yeshua, in all His glory, after His resurrection, and will rule forever.God bless you.
@@mariodiblasio8058 there's no yeshu
@@logicalconclusion3180 : Yes, there is!
Mario DiBlasio then why do all the prophecies of the new kingdom in the Old Testament have David as king?
@@MicMan03 : Because David as King is a figure of the Messiah. God bless you.
Psalm 2:7 I will tell of the decree: The LORD said to me, “You are my Son; today I have begotten you.
That refers to Jesus' resurrection
"Happy birthday" (Tovia Singer the pagan - birthdays are only celebrated by pagans in the Tanach)
i would gave believed this nonsense, if Agur hadn't said "i didn't know the holy ones" and in the context, God and his Son are the Holy ones.
Prov 30:3 should be translated: Neither have I learned wisdom, but knowledge of the Holy I know.
Then from vv4 to at least v9, Agur indicates that he has knowledge of the Holy.
New testament says no man ascendeth into heaven. elijah the prophet ascended directly into heaven in front of elisha and his students? just another contradiction added to the list.
Think a bit before you make such judgments. There are different levels of heaven.
@@voiceInDetroit that's irrelevant, it says no man to heaven. Not no man to "this level" of heaven.
@@anthonyderosa7730 Birds and airplanes ascend into heaven all the time. Obviously the Lord Jesus and Agur meant a higher level of heaven than that.
If you want to misunderstand the Bible God will let you.
@@voiceInDetroit I don't think I'm the one misunderstanding the Bible I will admit maybe I'm taking it literally.
@@anthonyderosa7730 I take it literally too. Please answer the question. Do birds and airplanes ascend into heaven?
Tovia is sounding like a complete authority of what should and shouldn't be in the bible, and who wrote what. Every lecture there is a revision in scripture that needs to happen for the argument to fit.
More like Christians are always twisting everything and he's helping us see it untwisted. He's clarifying it for us.
The one who wants to be like the most high and sit on the throne of the most high as though he is God. Jesus?
ChiliMcFly1 was king neberkenezer and not a double prophecy at all
ChiliMacFly; Hi Chili, that is the devil, Satan.Jesus, Yeshua, the Messiah, He is the Most High.God bless you.
Elijah went to heaven, sorry
even the verse that you cited john 3:13 you didn't read correctly and have twisted it for your own favor>>> the verse you cited doesn't say THAT IS the son of man ..... WHY you tampered with what the verse say and changed it from EVEN the son of man to read it THAT IS the son of man ??? To deceive more people to worship a Jew man lived in the first century isn't it?
Thelsmaellsaac: Messiah came as a Jew. His Name is Yeshua, He is EmmanuEl, God with us.God bless you.
YAH
YAHH
YAHU
Is the name of Al'ohiym
Psalm 68:4
redsox141978 q
No it isn't, and there's no upper case letters in Hebrew
Upper case is English
Like the LEXICON being used
Not very smart
In ENGLISH for the faint of mind
El'ohiym 'et
el'ohiym
Tell us, LOL, what that means
The rabbi made some statements about the Gospel of John:
The rabbi said that John never says that Jesus got baptized because supposedly John wants to show that Jesus is God who does not need to be baptized.
John 1:25-34 gives John the Baptist's account of John the Baptist baptizing Jesus.
The rabbi said that John never mentions Mary's name because supposedly John wants to show that Jesus did not need to have a mother because He is God.
John mentions Jesus' mother in 2:1,3,5,12; 6:42; 19:25-26.
John does not mention Mary's name in order to refute the pagan heresy of Mary-worship.
The rabbi said that Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus in John 3 could not have happened because Jesus would have spoken Aramaic with Nicodemus. The phrase "born again" in Greek also means "born from above". Since they spoke in Aramaic, this double meaning, which Singer claims is central to the account, is not there.
I agree that Jesus would have spoken Aramaic with Nicodemus, and I take the rabbi's word for it that the phrase in Aramaic does not have a double meaning. There is no double meaning needed. We see from Nicodemus' answer that he understood the phrase as "born again". So Jesus must have said "born again" in Aramaic. There is no need of a double meaning.
I would also like to thank the rabbi for this point. Previously I thought the phrase could be translated "born again" or "born from above", but due to them speaking in Aramaic, Jesus must have said, You must be born again.
Jesus never sinned and never lied. But when he said the only true God is the Father, no Christian believes him. When he said he has a God, Christians look the other way. When he said the Father is greater than him, christianity comes with convoluted explanations to try to defend their non biblical beliefs. If Christians really are followers of Christ, they should believe that what he said is the truth and stop following christianity.
@@aleczemouli2905 thank you for an intelligent post.
//Jesus never sinned and never lied. //
We agree
//But when he said the only true God is the Father, no Christian believes him//
Then NT and OT is consistent that there is only one God. There are 3 persons in the one God.
Paul also said there is only one God, the Father.
*John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent* .
If Jesus was not God, how could He pray for His people to know God and Him? If Jesus were just the messenger, no need to know Him, and it would be blasphemous to put knowing Him on par with knowing God.
When Thomas called Jesus "my God" in Joh 20:28, Jesus did not object.
//When he said he has a God, Christians look the other way./
That is consistent throughout the OT and NT. The Father is Jesus' God.
Psalm 45:7 Thou loved righteousness,
and hated iniquity.
Therefore, *O God, Your God* ,
has anointed Thee
with the oil of joy,
above Your companions all.
//When he said the Father is greater than him,//
That is consistent throughout the OT and NT.
The Father is the ultimate authority in the Godhead. The 3 do not have equal authority.
//If Christians really are followers of Christ, they should believe that what he said is the truth and stop following christianity.//
To follow Christ, we need to believe everything He said in the OT and NT. You cannot pick some verses to believe and others to discount.
@@voiceInDetroit that is exactly what christianity does. Only believes in verses that support their doctrines and discard the ones that are too painful. There's not 1 verse that clearly states the trinity. However there are many verses that state the attributes of God. He doesn't change, he's immortal, invisible, not a man and he is one ( not 3).
Jesus is like a lottery ticket. It cost pennies to manufacture. It cost $2 to buy. But if it's the winning ticket, it's worth $400 million. So his intrinsic value is pennies, but if it is the winning ticket, it's extrinsic value is $400 million. He's not God by nature nor by essence but God made him crucial and unique to get to Him. That is the true message of Jesus but not the message of "christianity " who completely changed and corrupted Christ message. Which is actually nowhere to be found in OT to start with. Tanakh message is completely different. It tells us that God loves us and will forgive us without sacrifices nor mediator if we only repent.
@@aleczemouli2905 //that is exactly what christianity does. Only believes in verses that support their doctrines and discard the ones that are too painful. //
Do you see how you are describing yourself? I answered your verses. What do you do with Joh 20:28 and Ps 45:7? Are these verses too painful for you to deal with? so you discard them?
//There's not 1 verse that clearly states the trinity.//
Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in *the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit*
2Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.
// He doesn't change, he's immortal, invisible, not a man and he is one//
He became a man. Who is the Son of Man who is co-God in Dan 7:13-14?
The problem is that Solomon’s throne was not established over Israel forever, or even unto the next generation because of Solomon’s disobedience to God, unlike David his father.
Dead Sea Scrolls. The Text of Scroll 4Q246 - the Son of God Scroll:
"He shall be called the son of God,
and they shall designate [call] him son of the Most High.
Like the appearance of comets, so shall be their kingdom.
For brief years they shall reign over the earth and shall trample on all;
one people shall trample on another and
one province on another until the people of God shall rise and all shall rest from the sword."
Compare the words in the scroll 4Q246 text to the inspired words found in Luke 1:32 and 35: "He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: . ( Praise Yahushua )
How did Shalomo add to the Torah though?... I can tell you how Tovia adds to the Torah for example. 😉
Did the rabbi ever answer the question?
I like how at 25:13, the host tries to get the rabbi back on track to answering the question.
But then at 28:13, the rabbi gives the meaning of the Son of God. And Jesus could have fit this definition exactly.
This rabbi is fun to listen to, but take what he says with a grain of salt. He jumps around with scripture and uses misleading beliefs and analogies resulting in never really answering and addressing the questions at hand. But he is good to use as a study aid. He contradicts himself often. Just take what he says and look it up. It is easy to see.
Indeed. To listen to guys like this, you must study for yourself or you'd be deceived.
Yahutzadok the father, Kohen HaGadol
Yahushua his son, also Kohen HaGadol
Haggai 1-2
Zechariah 6
Emmanuel.
That's His name He returns with
Sh'ikinah, "The SUN of G-d" The Tanach speaks of the Sun of G-d not the son of god.
Hi Again Chili: Psalm 2:7; "You are my Son, today have I begotten you."God bless you.
David Miles: Hi David; the Tanakh is God's Word, as, in fact, the entire Bible is; it will never misinform you, you can be sure about it and receive it in your heart and mind as true and trust it. God bless you.
Hi Mario Is Jesus the one spoken of in Deuteronomy 13 ?
ChiliMcFly: Hi Mac; no, Deuteronomy 13 speak of the false prophets who come to deceive the people. Yeshua, Jesus, came to be The Lamb of God who fulfilled the Law and reestablished the relationship between the people and God, by grace, through faith. God bless you.
Hi Mario So you're saying that Jesus is not G-d and he says you should only worship G-d and not himself. correct ?
The rabbi claims that the son of God here is any godly human being.
He gives no Biblical support for that statement because there is none.
Proverbs 30:1 The words of Agur the son of Jakeh the Masahite,
the utterance of the mighty man unto Ithiel,
unto Ithiel and Ucal:
2 Truly I am more brutish than a person,
and I do not have the understanding of a man,
3 nor have I learned wisdom,
but knowledge of the holies I know.
4 Who hath ascended up into the heavens, and descended?
Who hath gathered the wind in his fists?
Who hath bound the waters in a mantle?
Who hath established all the ends of the earth?
What is His name?
and what is His Son's name, if thou knowest?
The son here is the son of the One who created the world.
That is the Son of God.
"What is His Son's name" implies this is God's only begotten Son.
Knowing the name of God and knowing the name of His Son important.
Proverbs 30 doesn't say to worship the son.
@@akivatalansky True, Prov 30 does not say to worship the son. It says God has a son.
@pale rider yes!
@pale rider Amen, bro
@@akivatalansky Psalm 2 does.
Yes, I understand this Verse. There is a similar Verse in Luke 3 Verse 38: "... the son of Enosh, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God."
Unfortunately for you, all these people did NOT come with the WATER. You see, Our Lord JESUS is the visible God. ONLY JESUS CAME WITH THE WATER. It's like filling a clear glass with clear WATER. The WATER takes the form of the clear glass. The WATER is Almighty God YAHWEH, the HOLY SPIRIT, and the clear glass is JESUS Christ. Where there is one of the Trinity, the other two are present also, you cannot separate them, NEVER!
Almighty God YAHWEH, the HOLY SPIRIT, chose to make Himself known to the World through and by His only begotten Son, Our Lord JESUS.
1 JOHN 4 Verse 12: No one has ever seen God, but if we love one another, God lives in union with us, and his love is made perfect in us.
JOHN 14 Verse 7: JESUS said, "Now that you have known me, you will know my Father also, and from now on you know him AND YOU HAVE SEEN HIM."
JOHN 1 Verses 17 and 18: God gave the Law through Moses, but Grace and Truth came through JESUS Christ. No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is the same as God and is at the Father's side, he has made him known.
1 Timothy 3 Verse 16: He appeared in Human form, was shown to be right with the Spirit, and was seen by angels.
THE NAME OF GOD:
JOHN 17 Verses 11 and 12: JESUS said, "And now I AM coming to you Father; I AM no longer in the World, but they (Disciples) are in the World. HOLY Father! Keep them safe by the power of your NAME, the NAME you gave me, so that they may be one just as YOU and I are ONE. While I was with them, I kept them safe by the power of your NAME, the NAME you gave me.
JESUS is LORD!!!
//////////
'Song of Songs' is woman speaking to man. 😉 (therefore not Divinely Inspired either)
The rabbi said that the almah in Prov 30:19 is the adulterous woman in v20.
Let us look at the verses to see if that is the case.
Prov 30:18 There are three things too wonderful for me, and four that I know not:
19 The way of an eagle in the heavens, the way of a serpent upon a rock, the way of a ship in the midst of the sea, and the way of a man with a maid.
20 Such is the way of an adulterous woman: she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.
The word "wonderful" is פלא. It is a very positive word, usually used for the wondrous, awe-inspiring works of God. It is used in Isa 9:6 for the name of the Messiah and in Judges 13:18 for the name of the Angel of Jehovah.
What is wondrous about these 3-4 things? You look at the way of an eagle flying in the air. It looks effortless. Same with a serpent on a rock. He flows, seemingly effortlessly, like a liquid, especially uphill.
We don't have big ships powered by sails anymore. I imagine they glide effortlessly because they are powered by the wind.
Then is the way of a mighty man (or hero, Heb. gibbor, a positive word) with a virgin. Not only is it a mystery, but it flows effortlessly like the previous 3. It is beautiful. When is the relationship between a man and a woman seemingly effortless?
It is in proper courtship, where the woman is innocent of the intimate knowledge of a man.
Jacob labored like a slave without pay for 7 years for Rachel, and the 7 years seemed to him like a few days because of his love for her. Gen 29:20. This is not something supernatural. It is the power of the God-created virgin love.
These are in contrast with the disgusting, ugly adulterous woman in the next verse, v20.
The striking thing is she has no feeling or conscience.
Singer says that what the 4 things have in common is that they leave no trace. Really? That is not wondrous at all. When you see an eagle soaring in the sky what do you think? Do you say, Wow, it actually leaves no trace!?
Singer says the wonderful way of a hero with an almah is about adultery. Adultery is not a wonder, and it leaves a trace as King David experienced with Bathsheba.
If this passage is by Solomon as Singer claims, Solomon should be very familiar with this terrible sin.
Actually almah mean young referring to a woman.. I got no idea where you end up with your conclusion?
@@elcaminodelconversoyeljust8120 Thanks for asking.
The root of almah means "unknown", which is the Biblical way of saying innocence with the opposite sex. It means an innocent young woman.
If we look at all the uses of almah in the Bible, none refer to non-virgins.
The usage in Song of Songs 1:3 & 6:8 demand the meaning of virgin.
Bethulah on the other hand does not unambiguously mean virgin. It means a chaste woman who is either a virgin or was a virgin before marriage and has been faithful to one husband. Bethulah refers to a married woman in Joel 1:8; Esther 2:17,19 & Deut 22:19. Whenever the word bethulah is used to mean a virgin there are extra words added to make it mean virgin (i.e. Gen 24:16; Exo 22:15; Lev 21:3; Judges 21:12 ... ).
@@voiceInDetroit
I'm still not get it... you mean that betulah doesn't mean virgin?
Are you using a English translation bible?
@@elcaminodelconversoyeljust8120 You have to go to the primary source, the Hebrew Bible. Look at how the Hebrew word bethulah is used in the Hebrew Bible. That is what determines its meaning. Not how translators translated it. In English We don't have a word that means what bethulah means. So they usually translate it as "virgin". Read Joel 1:8:
Joel 1:8 Wail like a *bethulah* girded with sackcloth for the *husband of her youth.*
The bethulah has a husband of her youth. How can she be a virgin?
Also read Esther 2:17 & 19:
17 And the king loved Esther above all the women, and she obtained grace and favour in his sight more than all the *betulot*, and he set the royal crown upon her head, and made her queen instead of Vashti.
19 And when the *betulot* were gathered together the second time, Mordecai sat in the king's gate.
This is after the naarot betulot (unmarried betulahs) spent the night with the king, consumating the marriage. Esther and the others are still called betulot, but no longer naarot betulot because no they are married.
@@voiceInDetroit
Ester 2: 17 thru 19
וַיֶּאֱהַב הַמֶּלֶךְ אֶת-אֶסְתֵּר מִכָּל-הַנָּשִׁים, וַתִּשָּׂא-חֵן וָחֶסֶד לְפָנָיו מִכָּל-הַבְּתוּלוֹת; וַיָּשֶׂם כֶּתֶר-מַלְכוּת בְּרֹאשָׁהּ, וַיַּמְלִיכֶהָ תַּחַת וַשְׁתִּי.
וַיַּעַשׂ הַמֶּלֶךְ מִשְׁתֶּה גָדוֹל, לְכָל-שָׂרָיו וַעֲבָדָיו--אֵת, מִשְׁתֵּה אֶסְתֵּר; וַהֲנָחָה לַמְּדִינוֹת עָשָׂה, וַיִּתֵּן מַשְׂאֵת כְּיַד הַמֶּלֶך
וּבְהִקָּבֵץ בְּתוּלוֹת, שֵׁנִית; וּמָרְדֳּכַי, יֹשֵׁב בְּשַׁעַר-המלך
Where said that Ester spend the night with the king and consummate her marriage?
Sorry to ask you that much but I got more confuse with your reference..
Jesus is the Lord. Praise the Lord. Hope to the hopeless. God is Love. God Loves us oh how He loves us.Thank you Jesus for saving the lost sheep.By faith are we saved.Follow Jesus and God bless all.
Worshiping Jesus is idolatry at its finest. It is dressing up a pagan idol to look like a Jew after the same story has been recycled down through every major pagan empire.
Show me in GOD'S WORD- the TNK- Where He tells us we are saved by faith. I will show you all over TNK where God tells us that we are saved by our own actions, repenting and following HIS instructions, and one of them is not to worship Him like the pagans worship their gods and to know that He is NOT a man- to not worship Him using the form of any created thing, male or female. Jesus has the image of a created thing- a human- in the male form. Please repent of this idolatry, Sonja!
May Davies
[[where in the Hebrew scriptures does God tell the Jewish people that in the last days, they will be flocking to the Christian Gentiles to learn what their Hebrew scriptures say?]]
I cannot provide that for you right now. All I have is “I’ve read it with my own eyes”, but that won’t be good enough for you, and I don’t think I’ve ever done a study on it.
[[ On the contrary, Jeremiah 16:19-20 tell us that it is the people of the nations (not the Jews) who will come to Yehovah claiming that they (not the Jews) have inherited lies and things wherein there is no merit.]]
If you ask a question, it is wise to WAIT for an answer. So, I’ll ignore your ‘on the contrary’ for now.
And Jer 16 is irrelevant. I never suggested that Gentiles would not come to GOD. That’s not even a topic of discussion, for God has been the God of mankind LONG before any “Jew” ever existed.
Adam
Abel
Seths generation
Noah
Enoch
Job
Melchisidek
Jethro
… none of whom were “Hebrew” or “Jew” or “Israelite”
He has ALWAYS been the God of ALL mankind. It is but through Israel that He gave His oracles and decrees. That doesn’t make Israel holy, or obedience. “On the contrary”, the constant suffering is evidence of a disobedient and rebellious Israel.
[[ At this point, I'd like to bring to your recollection that the forefathers of the Jews were inheriting the truth of Torah on Mount Sinai, not inheriting lies.]]
I don’t want to turn this into a Jew vs Gentile thing. And if you do this … you will loose, soundly.
Psalm 31:11 {His Jew friends abandoned Him}(fulfilled: Mark 14:50)
Psalm 31:13 {Jews plotted to kill Him} (fulfilled: John 11:53)
Psalm 31:14-15 {the Jews mocked Him} (fulfilled: Matthew 27:43)
Psalm 35:11 (lying Jews bore a false testimony against Him} (Matthew: 26:59)
Psalm 35:19 (Jews had no reason to hate Him, but they hated Him anyway} (fulfilled John 15:25)
Psalm 38:11 (Jew friends watched from a safe distance} (fulfilled: Luke 23:49)
Psalm 41:9 {betrayed by a Jew} (fulfilled: John 13:18)
Psalm 55:12-14 {betrayed by a Jew, not a Gentile} (as above)
Psalm 69:4 {no reason to hate Him} (fulfilled John 15:25)
Psalm 69:8 {unknown to the Jews} (fulfilled: Luke 8;20-21)
Psalm 88:8 {they watched His demise from a safe distance} (fulfilled: Luke 23:49)
Psalm 109:25 {Jews mocked Him} (Matthew 27:39)
Psalm 118:22,23 {rejected stone is the Head Corner Stone} (fulfilled: Matthew 21:42,43)
Isaiah 6:9-12 (Jews didn't understand and were blinded to His messages} (Matthew 13:13-15; Acts 28:23-29)
Isa. 8:14...{offensive to them; a stumbling block - hard to understand His message} (fulfilled 1 Peter 2:8)
Isaiah 29:13 {Jews had hypocritical obedience, much like what I see in most people in BP - you "honor" Him with your mouths only} (fulfilled: Matthew 15:7-9)
Isaiah 49:7 {the Jewish Nation despised the Messiah} (fulfilled: John. 8:48-49)
Isaiah 50:3 {the skies are clothed in black at His degradation}} (fulfilled: Luke 23:44-45)
Isaiah 50:5 {allowed Himself to be bound by Jews without rebellion} (fulfilled: Matthew 26:39)
Isaiah 50:6 {Jews spat on Him, punched Him, pulled out His beard, etc} (fulfilled: Matthew 26:67 & Matthew 27:30)
Isaiah 53:1 {Jews refused to believe Him} (fulfilled John 12:37-38)
Isaiah 53:2 {Jews considered nothing special about Him, just an ordinary man} (fulfilled Philippians 2:7-8)
Isaiah 53:3 {Jews despised and rejected Him, even breaking His heart...} (fulfilled Luke 4:28-29; Matthew 27:21-23; Luke 19:41-42; Mark 14:50-52
Isaiah 53:4c...{Jews accused Him of being cursed by God} (fulfilled: Matthew 27:41-43)
Isaiah 53:7 {silent before His Jewish accusers; subjugated and afflicted} (fulfillment Matthew Mt. 27:12-14 & 27-31)
Isaiah 53:8 {Jews arrested, persecuted, judged and killed Him} (fulfilled: Matthew 26:47-27:31& John 18:13-22 & Matthew 27:35)
Daniel 9:26 {Jews killed Him} (fulfillment: Matthew 27:35)
Zechariah 11:4-6 {Jews rejected Him for another} (fulfillment: John 19:13-15)
Zechariah 11:7 {only the poor, the lame, the down trodden seemed to know who He was - the believing remnant} (fulfillment: Matthew: 9:35-36)
Zech. 11:8 {Jews despised Him} (fulfilled Matthew 27:20)
Zech. 11:12-13 {traded for 30 pieces of silver; rejected} (fulfilled Matthew 26:14-15)
Zech. 12:10 {Messiah rejected by the Jews) {fulfilled John 1:11)
Zech. 13:7 {suffered a brutal death because of the Jews} (fulfilled Matthew 27:35)
[[Does a student come to college and then presume to tell his professor that he does not understand the subject he's teaching or does an apprentice come to the master and tell him that he does not understand his craft, that he is "blind" with a veil over his eyes and that the student will instruct the master? ]]
That’s your problem right there. You think that JEWS are the “master.” You think that JEWS are the “teacher” You are wrong. There is ONE Master and ONE Teacher … and that is God. Jews were merely a vessel of which GOD gave His degrees and statues. Jews have given NOTHING of themselves. NONE of the Word of God belongs to any Jew. No Jew has prophecies of himself, nor degreed his own thing.
You consider yourself the teacher? And yet you FAIL to understand that even a teacher is given material to teach BY THE SCHOOL DISTRICT! No teacher can stray from what is assigned to them. Likewise, You do what ANY nation could have done, just as anyone could do what a teacher does. You are as much a puppet as the angels. Only difference is you are conceited and blinded in thinking that it’s all about you, when it’s all about GOD.
Blaspheming and not even seeing the error of your ways.
[[If you can read and teach the Hebrew scriptures better than the Jews who are experts in their own Hebrew language, culture, history , and sacred texts, then, and only then, should anyone come to you to learn about the scriptures...]]
“Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them. They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them. Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb. For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.”
“His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.”
[[ BUT if you will concede that the Jews- especially the rabbis and other Jewish Biblical scholars- know the language better than you do, then I kindly suggest you humble yourself and learn from them. ]]
Jeremiah 50v6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.
Eze 34v2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
Learn from … THAT?
Christel Williams ... so says the fool who called me a disciple of a DEAD Aldolph Hitler (and was refuted for her own stupidity).
Making you look the fool for you OWN words has never been "hate". It seems you hating yourself is the main problem.
+MessengerOfTruth Truth is SO important. I have been thru many belief systems that seem to have all the answers. Seeing THRU the story to the truth is very difficult.
When I first started going to church it was one of those "name it and claim it churches". High energy, sincere people, optimism everywhere, TOTAL confidence in their belief.
I was completely convinced that what these people told me was what the bible said. I mean, THERE IT WAS: Scripture confirming firming Scripture; Scripture being just clear as a bell. Having NEVER opened a bible, I was unable to TEST what they SAID the bible said.
THEN, I read a book about the charismatic movement. That book helped me see the narrowness of their focus. It showed me how this group zeroed in on just a few specific verses which were often in contradiction to other verse and larger Scriptural themes.
The book was just so illuminating and systematic. It reframed the issue and taught me how to OBJECTIVELY evaluate claims people make about Scripture. It's logic and use of Scripture was so clear and sound that it single handedly moved me into mainstream christianity.
I tell you this because the same thing happened 15 years later. The charismatic movement is very adept at portraying a picture and telling a story that seems very believable TO PEOPLE WHO CAN'T/WON'T TEST IT.
Mainstream christianity is the same way.
I spent 15 years in a belief system which A) told me what Scripture was about B) show me Scripture to prove it C) caused me to trust ONLY their understanding.
I began to see problems in the church - conflicts between their doctrine and Scripture. If mainstream christianity has any redeeming value it is that it SAYS it fully believes and trusts the inerrant Word of God. In reality they DON'T and I think I can prove it.
Everything I knew about the "old testament" and Israel and "Jews" CAME FROM CHRISTIANS.
Here is my challenge to any and every christian: take these 300+ prophecies and see what someone OTHER THAN A CHRISTIAN thinks about them. Listen to several of these podcasts and see if they make any sense. www.truth2u.org/?s=365
If christianity has the right idea about these verse, you should be able to see thru the faulty reasons of factual errors in these pod casts. But you can't just listen for 5 mins and say, "I don't believe these guys". To be VALID, you must be able to support your conclusion.
This is like a trial where EVIDENCE is presented and TESTED.
I assert that most christians have only heard ONE SIDE OF THE STORY. You don't WANT to go thru life touting one side and plugging your ears to the other.
Robert Morley You first and biggest mistake is you allowed a BOOK to guide you instead of the Word of God. You were not taught, you were brainwashed.
Your second biggest mistake rides off of your first - YOU did not study and pray as you are COMMANDED to. So in all actuality, you violated the Scriptures for not reading, prayerfully, for yourself. If you did, you would not have been so easily deceived.
Another mistake is, you are a novice, but you try to lean of medium level things. 15 years? 15 years is a blink. I was BORN into the Church, and here I am, 41 years later, grounded in Truth.
Another error I see in you is, because of the above reason, you apparently don't seem to know that there is no perfect Church. None. Even Paul wrote "O you foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you do not continue in the Truth!?" And clearly, you have not even considered the Churches of Revelation. NONE of them were perfect. Jesus had an issue with ALL of them, but He laid no further burden on the poor and the persecuted Church, because they already suffered enough.
ANOTHER issue is, you are probably a WESTERNER. Plenty of issues in your mega-churches and charismatic movements. Yes. I agree. America is pathetic when it comes to sound Doctrine and good theology. But I wasn't not raised in any Western Church.
Wow, and ANOTHER thing you clearly have overlooked (again, it is because you are a novice, and have never learned what True Salvation is) is that when people repent - when they TRULY repent, they do not join a "Church", they join JESUS. But you had a focus on the superficial, and that tells me all I need to know about YOUR "salvation" really.
And I keep saying it, but ANOTHER issue you have is you clearly don't know Prophecy. It is PROPHECY that says:
1)
There will be a GREAT FALLING AWAY [from Truth and Doctrine]. This is clearly seen.
2)
Men will NOT heed sound Doctrine
3)
The salt will become saltless, good for nothing, and trampled under foot. It CANNOT be resalted.
4)
Rider on a white horse. But I'm sure you're like most and think this is a man (eventhough every other rider is a THING - no consistency)
5)
Men will have a FORM OF GODLINESS, but not connected to the Power. Religiosity.
Yup. The End Time Prophecies can be sections. Some deal with the CHURCH, other things deal with Israel, Nature, and the World.
But because you do know the Prophecies, or the Scriptures, and becaue you prefer a book and a webpage over the Word of Truth, you have easily been deceived.
But of YOU, there are also Prophecies:
6)
"By smooth words and flattery, they deceive the minds of the naïve and the simple"
7)
Men will turn to seducing spirits and winds of doctrines
Do you even know what you have done?
JUDAISM HAS FAILED ISRAEL!!!
But you have gone running to the imaginary rebuttals of some obscure Rabbi, all because he takes some long winded approach to trying to discredit the 300+ Messianic Prophecies found here:
www.bibleprobe.com/365messianicprophecies.htm
What? You didn't think that he actually thought of those video series on his own did you? LOL No. He is trying to refute the clear picture of Jesus being the Messiah!
And another thing you are failed at, very terribly, is the FACT that over and over and over again, we see how the Jews are BLINDED to their own Scritures! Even Jeremiah says that they are lost because of their disobedience, rebellion, and blindness. Jesus said it - or maybe you've never read Matthew 23? Paul even said that their blindness must continue ... until the appointed time.
BUT THE VERY PEOPLE WHO SCRIPTURES SAY ARE BLINDED TO SCRIPTURES, ARE TEH VERY PEOPLE YOU GO RUNNING TO FOR BIBLICAL ADVICE.
That is silly. And a damnation upon your soul, for THEY will not escape the coming Hell, and nor shall you if you follow them.
8)
"The blind will lead the blind and BOTH will fall into a ditch"
And another thing you are unaware of, is that Jews BLASPHEME GOD. They blaspheme because the Rabbis have invented a new lie in the past 15 years. The insert THEMSELVES into every Scripture that is talking about Jesus. Every single one ... especially the ones in Isaiah.
Since when have Jews been a light unto the Gentiles? LOL!!! They never have. That is the role of the Messiah!
Since when have Jews had their hands and feet pierced?
Since when have Jews had their garments gambled over?
Since when have Jews been able to bear the name Emmanuel?
Since when have Jews born the name of "Salvation"?
Since when have Jews been proceeded by a forefunner?
You've been bambozzled ... all because of your lack of true repentance, and your lack of Biblical reading, lack of a prayer life, and a lack of seeking God. If you had those things, you wouldn't have made such a terrible amatuers mistake.