What is the Legacy of Kevin Durant? Can the Suns be Fixed?: A Discussion
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- Опубліковано 5 тра 2024
- A conversation with the Apex Greatness crew about the Suns and their bleak future.
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The game of Basketball has been my passion since I was 5 years old. I grew up as a kid watching my dad's recorded VHS tapes of playoff games through the 70s and 80s, and collected all the Basketball cards. Something about the game and what it represents just hooked me from a very young age.
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I post videos every week on NBA history, predictions, hypothetical scenarios and current NBA topics.
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TIMESTAMPS BELOW: Is there ANYWAY to fix this Suns team, and what is the legacy of Kevin Durant??
0:17 How bleak is the Suns situation, and how can they fix it?
4:40 Jonny goes on a RANT about Bol Bol
7:22 Superteams have ALWAYS needed to gel
12:05 What is the legacy of Kevin Durant?
1 ring with Thunder would've meant more than his 2 with warriora
FACTS!
Could’ve been
Agreed, easily too. 👍
💯
Thanks for having us on as always Jonny!!!
The legacy of KD is.
One of the greatest scorer of all time absolutely, maybe a top 20 player.
But didn't really took his own team when it mattered the most too success. Has also played with every star in the game trying to get that chip with without playing for a 73 win team.
Hes just a scorer. Hes soft and not an all time great. And if he was playing tonight , and read my comment before the game, he'd go out a lay a turd. Proving my point. He's soft , mentally weak, not a leader, and just lucky to play on a championship team already, before he got there. Hes can play ball , but he can't be a winner. Like harden
@@kenw2225 he doesn't have it mentally, but the skills to be a all time great still.
Not top 15 though
He isnot top 20 player lol😂😂😂😂he is top 13. There isn't any player put of top 10 other than Hakeem and maybe Oscar that you can put him over KD😂😂😂😂 no f***ing chance. Not KG, not Dirk, not Barkley, not Wade... Nobody of them is greater basketball player 😂😂😂😂 Durant ia clearly in top 13 greatest basketball players ever.
@hristijandimitrovski8664 exactly people act like KD cause he went to GSW means be not as good. He's still top 15 in my list
@@hristijandimitrovski8664 I have Moses Malone, Dr J, Isiaha Thomas, Jerry West above him aswell
KD will likely go down as a sensational scorer who tainted his career with his never ending dissatisfaction.
I’m not kidding when I say he’d probably have a way different career if there wasn’t any Twitter.
He 100% fell into all those keyboard warriors traps..WAYYY too sensitive. a strong minded person wouldve stayed in Golden State and wouldve won 2 or 3 more chips. oh well
Truth....
I like you're phrasing , of "never ending dissatisfaction"
Truthfully , Lebron did the same with more success
@@Logistics__ agreed. But LeGM sees things through before he jets. KD tends to leave in the middle of the mess with GS and Brooklyn. Even to an extent with OKC.
Jonny said the obvious that no body was seeing. Super Teams ain't over just built them better! 😂
A luckier Tracy McGrady. A luckier James harden. A luckier Carmelo. Durant is just a player who can score a bit and got lucky to play on all time great team, and the other guys weren't. He's a soft bum.
Did those guys have more all around games outside of scoring than KD?
I would say no because KD was more efficient, didn't have the Trash games that harden did, and tmac was a first round exit for years... Did he ever get out of the first round? Besides 2013 where he didn't play the whole year and played 6 games, 31min 0 points?
yep
TMac won 50 games and was the 8th seed....nothing he could do in the West. Should have stayed in the East@@reimixo
I am def not a Durant fan but he’s above Tmac
johnny sounds so different
i was waiting for someone to say it
There’s always someone who says it on every one of these discussion videos. He’s explained before that it comes down to the way he reads off a script, I’m also like that where I would sound very different reading off a script to just having a chat. Plus the levels/acoustics are definitely different as well. 👍
14:05 Russell is spitting the truth
The only thing missing from that Warriors team was a competitive match up for LeBron, and a big man that could keep up with the pace of their offense. If Harrison Barnes improved his shooting and defense, and they still got Javale McGee then the Warriors still could’ve won back to back championships.
Thanks a lot!!! 🙏🏻
Many players would have sufficed. Among them of course PG, and Kawhi, but Iso Joe, Danilo Gallinari, Batum, Jae Crowder, Bogdanović, Belinelli, Tony Snell, Otto Porter Jr., Channing Frye, Allen Crabbe, Niko Mirotić, Ersan Ilyasova, Melo, Vinsanity, and Ryan Anderson among others.
I feel like kids in the future will see KD as an all time great because of his talent and scoring ability having no Idea why their dad just yelled to them "No! Fuck KD!"
Totally dude . Most kids just see the talent and they don’t see the mentality of competing in highest level. Not all kids but some kids will understand it and some will finally understand it. Like they don’t understand why dirk’s 1 ring better than KD 2 rings . Stuff like that .Tbf when I was a kid I used to see the shallow part of the sport then when I got older I finally understood what it took to be the best
Always love this discussion with boys at Apex Greatness! They are criminally underrated
thanks as always brother!!!
Always dropping dimes!
George Gervin +2x superteam rings
best closing line ever.
lmfaooooo thank you!
I have a feeling that the 2020's are going to be a bit like the 1970's in the NBA. We don't have one team that's been dominant, instead the talent pool is spread out and the likely hood of a back to back championship teams is not very high. We're at another turning point in the game where the old guard is fading out and this new group is taking over which is kind of leaving a power vacuum.
Definitely! I wonder if we will see a team win multiple championships but the Nuggets seem to the favorite in my eyes this year.
Could it be said that those who are pro Kevin Durant look at the career he’s carved out for himself (say what you want about ranking, but he’ll be a Hall of Famer), and those who are anti-Kevin Durant wonder what could’ve been if his championships were more satisfying, and perhaps if he developed more skills outside of versatile scoring?
I don't think so, I think it's about what he is not doing... If he stayed in gs he would have won multiple rings and fmvps and people would not care because at the end of the day, Magic had kareem worthy Scott Cooper mcadoo Nixon Thompson, bird McHale walton DJ parish Maxwell... Jordan pippen Rodman and All the role players.... LeBron wade Bosh Kyrie love ad Allen...Kobe and shaq, the 08 Celtics....
Happy Monday morning!!!😊😊
KD easily could have been a top 10 nba player of all time. But he has failed to lead a team to championship despite being on OKC, Suns and Nets, all 3 teams had championship talents. His championships with Warriors aren't even worth mentioning. So as of right now, KD is merely a top 20 or 30 player of all time.
Top 20 for sure
Thank you... Durant hasnt played team ball in years, a lot of Times he stands still until he gets the ball... That makes his a non threat.... They have no Point guard, their best defender is nurkic, they got a defensive Coach with 3 offensive guys who play little to no defense...
Durant is a highly talented individual who also has great physical gifts for basketball. But his weak beta mindset has drastically decreased what was an unbelievable potential.
I’d argue he has the greatest talent of any player. Especially pre-injury.
@@Dr.J42Maybe not wemby
Weak beta mindset,....is a bit harsh
A bit unfair also....
You can say, he's mentality isn't his greatest asset...
beta 💀💀💀
shit is not 2012
KD is one of the most portable offensive players ever. He definitely can adjust his game to basically any scheme. It’s mostly lebron who has to have a roster tailored to his offensive skill set. What lebron has that KD doesn’t is that he can elevate his teams offense outside of scoring by being an all time great passer, offensive and defensive playmaker, and raising his ceiling as a point of attack defender and secondary rim protector. KD has not elevated those other skills outside of scoring consistently in his career which is why he’s struggled to elevate teams without Westbrook and curry
I HOPE WE ARENT COMPARING KD AND BRON BECAUSE THERES NOTHING TO DISCUSS
Unless Durant were to have a Dirk 2011 run to a championship where he's the #1 option, his legacy wont change. He'll always be known as the dude who made the weakest move in NBA history.
Observations:
1. GSW won 73 games. KD fits on ANY team, honestly. He just ISOs regardless of the team --- esp w/ Curry and Klay running around just shooting lights outs in their PRIME.
2. PHO HAD the team that went to the Finals: Ayton as the big (overrated but decent). scorer (Book), and the PG (CP3 w/ injuries). Then KD showed up and they had to blow it up -- and now no future picks.
Ayton is soft so I get why they traded him. CP3, again, injuries. But now? Phoneix: 3 primary (SG) scorers on one team -- VS 20212 Miami w/ the bull dozing PG/SF in Lebron, spacer in Bosh who became the 3rd scoring shooting PF/C, and the slasher SG Wade who can get a bucket in the last minute.
If Phoenix hadn’t made the Beal trade could they have been better this past season?
Jonny definitely sounds different from UA-cam vids than the podcast discussion
Heck yea 😭
Notice how we talk about kd when it comes to the suns and don't have the same standards for booker. Old man the best one on the team
His legacy is *_EASY2RINGSNIPER_* like his name.
Could have the *_easiest and lightest 3-peat_* if not for the injury.
He is a *_great scorer_* that could pull up FROM THIRTY!! But that's about it.
He could end up with the group of ringless greats if not for *_the weakest move_* in NBA history.
To be fair to Steven A, Booker never denied those claims lol
Hey, Jonny! You, Dario, and Russell all made good points. This is a great discussion.
As I watched your video, I remembered how, in one of your older videos, you mentioned (and showed a screenshot) that you congratulated the Golden State Warriors on winning the 2017 NBA Finals after they signed KD. It was pretty much anticlimatic (and I second Dario on that), and it goes to your point about KD's leadership skills. I totally agree that he hasn't shown that he can lead a team to win a championship. I feel the same way that Russell does - I'm tired of how he keeps jumping from team to team rather than to work on developing the leadership skills to lead a team to win it all.
I need to listen to more Apex Greatness episodes.
I hope you have a great week! Take care, Jonny :).
thanks a lot!
@@RTBiz Anytime, Russell! :).
10:12 I think Booker was trying to learn to fit better with the team. He took more of a playmaking role at times and he’s grown a lot on the defensive end. I think it’s Durant and Beal that have too much pride. Durant famously thinks leadership is overrated in today’s NBA. Beal never really had any skills outside of scoring to begin with.
🏀
I hope the new era has superstars with a backbone
HE WILL BE REMEMBERED JUST LIKE OTHER TALENTS WERE/ARE BUT NEVER CHERISHED AND NOWHERE NEAR TOP 10
Draymond is underrated and always will be 😭
Kevin Durant has lost yet another playoff series in the first round.
This time, the Phoenix Suns super team of KD, Devin Booker & Bradley Beal were swept by Anthony Edwards and the Minnesota Timberwolves.
Once again, Durant falls short of winning a championship without Steph Curry, who has already won after KD left Golden State to form his own super team in Brooklyn.
KD's decision in 2016 is coming back to haunt him, as his legacy is being questioned time after time over the last couple of years since.
He will regret making that move that drastically altered NBA history forever.
Did he play badly in said series?
@fortynights1513 don't matter he lost
🎉❤
Lol I didn't expect you to look and sound like that lol.
Kevin “The Custodian” Durant. If you want your team to get swept let him be your number 1 option
“Carmelo Anthony sucks…” dude is a top 10 best scorer all time
I don’t know if I’d go that far but Melo was pretty talented
@@fortynights1513top 15 if not 10 for sure
Okay.
Rick Barry, LeBron, George Gervin, Iverson, Kareem, West, Bird, Kobe, Wilt, Jordan.
Let's go futher,
Karl Malone, Harden, Durant, Shaq, Robertson, Nowitzki, Wade, Steph, MacAdoo, Anthony.
Probably top 20 but not top 10
Hay Jonny just wanted to say love your content and as a young viewer of the nba I kinda disagree with the point on kd being just a top 20 plug in piece and they would’ve won. I feel everyone just being naive about the fact that he literally saved his legacy and the worriers. He was arguably the 2nd or 3rd best player in the league at the time behind lebron and if you want to argue the fact of curry because his m.v.p season 2 seasons prior to the season Durant was a worrier, he out preformed both of them and became the finals m.v.p. Plus I don’t think any top 20 play would’ve fit in the worriers system at the time. Kevin Durant was such a specific archetype that worriers needed. He didn’t need to change the way he played to fit in they system, and most of all the team he was on didn’t know how to build around him so he moved on to where he still got the job done. It’s plenty of cases where superstars left the team and still didn’t accomplish getting a ring nor personal achievement. I feel Kevin Durant should be just as solidified as a goat and that’s not even my favorite player 😂. Again big fan, love your content and keep going your great.
Now they fired Vogel because they had no other move to make.
Any veteran point guard like Conley and a rim protector woulda made a big difference.
Good video but man your voice doesn't sound the same compared to your other vids lol
Lol, I get that a lot 😂 Didn’t mic, and I’m way more formal when reading off a script
I always thought Jonny looked very different, glasses, jeans, tucked shirt
Skills of an all time great. Mentality/leadership of a #2. If he is your 2nd best player, then you have a title favorite. But if he is your best player then you are coming up just short. I think a fringe top 20 player all time is pretty fair. Hes in the same tier as Dr J and Dirk as scoring forwards to me.
No, dr j is much better than Kd. Durant is a tier with Harden, Maravich, Tracy McGready and Dirk. Gifted players who can't lead a team a cant manage the pressure
Hey jonny can you do top 10 offensive players all time
KD is Karl Malone, but less touching of kids and more jumping ship
One difference: Durant has probably had a better playoff career; even without rings.
PHOENIX WAS A FINALS TEAM WITHOUT KD ONCE HE GOT THERE EVERYTHING WENT DOWNHILL
Its a team builr to rock on 2k
Jonny why don’t you credit contagious MC?
A "legacy" is how people choose to remember you. None of that is under anybody's control and since "everybody" hates Kevin Durant he will be remembered as a loser, "cupcake", "bus rider", "somebody that needs Steph Curry" (even though Steph and his Warriors teammates flew to The Hamptons to recruit him after blowing a 3-1 lead to the Cavaliers, a loser, a failure, that nobody will ever give credit for any of the things he has accomplished and is a "loser". So that is his "legacy".
I don’t know why, I was expecting Jonny to look a lot older lol
Lol, I’m 34, but my experience seems a little older since I grew up on my dads VHS tapes of games from the 80s 😂
Imagine his legacy today if he chose Boston instead of Golden State….
❤
Kevin Durant will have a similar legacy to Wilt. KD was one of the greatest players of all time, but he played in a league with incredible player depth against many other all time greats, and a league that was going through tremendous changes in the way the game was played. He didn't have the leadership capabilities needed, nor the tenacity and drive to win in order to beat the other greats of his time. Where wilt was arguably the greatest player of all time, and did not have the supporting cast of players, nor the leadership capabilities and tenacity to beat Bill Russel, who is the winningest player in basketball history.
My god Wilt is miles ahead than KD. Wilt won a ring with Sixers (no one can do that) and he revived the Lakers, in addition that change the game while Russell was only a defensive player in a superteam
@@franagustin3094 Russel still was a very valuable player on offense.
KD has not been historical like Wilt but I get the argument
DID YOU JUST COMPARE KD TO WILT CHAIMBERLAIN??? Lol I almost threw up
@@SalRubino82 i said he will have a similar legacy. I would never compare kd to Wilt. Wilt is a waaay better player lol
@@owensmith2137 Don't get me wrong, Wilt is my favorite player of all time, and in my opinion he is the greatest player of all time.
KD the Roster Ruiner? Ruinee😂 idk how it would be put but yea 20:12
What are your thoughts on Slick Watts?
-Ron, The Almighty Rat King
Phoenix needs to sell their team to Seattle
Lebron Steph and kd in golden state would be incredible
KD top 10 all time greatest…he should stay with the Suns they just need a point guard
And the Knicks should say the hell away from Booker
HE BOUGHT 2 CHIPS WHICH IS RARE BECAUSE ITS NOT EASY TO JUST PUT STARS TOGETHER AND WIN IT ALL.I DONT SEE HOW A REAL BASKETBALL FAN,ANALYST,PLAYER, CAN RESPECT KD.WE KNOW HOW GREAT A PLAYER HE IS BUT IT ENDS THERE FOR ME.
Kids problem is that he doesn't want to show out on offense and he doesn't give max effort he makes plays here & there he gets his # & that's it. He was never gonna win anything after playing with gsw bc he wants to play behind a star not be the main guy to lead the team and show out.
A legacy one man left behind in a team sport where literal braindeads in the comments say he has a beta mindset .
The fact that people still put him behind curry in skills where he came to one of the best teams of all time and still was the best player on that team should tell you far more than accolades which are all team accolades btw.
This is not djokovic vs federer.
Fire who traded for Beal.....
Durant's legacy is a great shooter but lack of winning and constantly switching teams that went nowhere, he ended up disappointing.
They had JaVale and got to the finals with him and they had a good p3 the sun's are just good but never great
I tried to think of a player in NBA history that I thought would be the closest to Durant's. I landed on Isiah Thomas.
Both were considered two of the greatest players ever within their eras. They both were on legendary teams that won back to back titles, the infamous bad boy Pistons and the overpowered Warriors.
Beyond that I think their legacies are going to be similar. While they maybe some of the greatest players of all time much of their influence seems to be within the eras they operated in. Isiah for all of his accolades, for all of his being on camera afterwards, he just doesn't really seem to matter as much anymore. It's like he can't escape relevance beyond what years he played in. I also think the public perception of his legacy has been a little soured over the years. Most fans really just seem him as the face of the bad boys and a lot of what was wrong with the era of the time. Which makes fans appreciate him less.
I have a suspicion that Durant is going to be very similar in that regard. I don't think people will really think of him beyond the years he played and his relevance will decline at a similar rate. Except when people want to talk about the era of title and super team chasers. I think that is what fans are going to really remember him for. Of course he still has time to change this but that is the route I see him going.
THATS BASICALLY SAYING ANY ALL TIME GREAT CAN BE TOP 10 if this and that.Ok but he didn’t so he isn’t
14-TIME ALL-STAR .. ROOKIE OF THE YEAR .. ALL-STAR GAME MVP .. 4-TIME SCORING CHAMP .. 2-TIME FINALS MVP .. 2-TIME NBA CHAMPION .. NBA MVP .. OLYMPIC GOLD 🏅 KEVIN DURANT LEGACY IS HE'S 1 OF THE GREATEST PLAYERS IN LEAGUE HISTORY .. AND HE SHOULD BE CELEBRATED AS SUCH ..
Plenty players with those accolades.All time great no doubt but nowhere near the top
Just read the title will comment before I listen. To start with the positive 1 of the best scores of all time, a unicorn. Now for everything else didn’t live up to his ootential. Suppose he was a leader like Magic or Kobe? . Instead of being too 15 all time he maybe could have been as high as 3 alltime. Now he can’t crack the top 10. Soft temperamental and easily agitated always played with other stars and rarely won it all. 1 of the biggest what ifs in NBA history. What if the scarecrow had a heart. As great as he was suppose he had the will and heart to match his skills. If he was aaa killer on the court like on twitter he would be on everyone’s Mount Rushmore.
Opposite of the Lebron effect
BARELY makes my TOP 20 list….
Besides getting buckets in the regular season, and his move to the warriors, not much else stands out.
HOF’er?
Of course.
Jesus loves you
And you as well
This video is tone def as I've ever seen KD is 37 years old he wasn't a playoff chocker in his prime and his younger years he outplayed bron in the 2012 finals
Steph, is better than Durant. They don't beat Lebron in the 2017/2018 seasons without Durant. Not in both seasons.
Durant is considered a better player than curry because he is 7 ft tall that’s about it.I take curry any day and curry is higher on the all time list if you know basketball
this video is bullshit. js slandering kd. draymond of all people said that if kd ain’t joining them, gsw ain’t winning jack shit. yall are js biased gsw fans. steph curry is only better because the system is formed for him. and please. when gsw won the first chip, lebron was basically alone. they gave iggy the fmvp because they couldn’t give it to lebron. wake up
They being real kd success without the warriors is not good
How is his legacy considered unique when his entire class of peers been doing this same garbage for the past 15 years?
He actually won rings doing it
@@gold-man9cheap ass rings
@@brandangreen5422 Bro, do you understand context?
@gold-man9 context is his resume without GS is poor
@@brandangreen5422 the context is why his legacy is unique, not his resume
Revision much???
Lebron didn't adjust in Miami...WADE and BOSH did that, and has talked about it....Lebron's teams - when he joins and rejiggers them - are readymade for him, he's never had to do things that are outside of his remit....is he more versatile than KD? Yes. But THAT'S a totally different convo...I've watched him on my Lakers for six years now, pounding the shit out of the ball, because he won't work off it.
Man you got to drop Dario. He is trash in terms of his analysis and delivery.
The reality is that players don't care as much about winning now with the $50m per year salaries. They're focused on their personal brand and trying to become billionaires or whatever. Winning is secondary to business.