Choosing Past or Present Tense-Brandon Sanderson
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- Опубліковано 25 лют 2021
- This is a short segment from my 2021 Creative Writing Lectures at BYU. If you want to watch my lectures in their entirety, you can watch all of my 2020 lectures here: • Lecture #1: Introducti...
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"And the truth of it is... It doesn't matter which one you pick."
Keeping it real 👏👏👏 Love blunt Brandon
Native English speaker: can't choose between past or present tense
Me a non native English speaker: *laugh in language that didn't have a past tense or present tense
Which lang is that
Maybe i can use it as basis for my conlag
@@fuckgoogle667 I'm Indonesian and the language doesn't have tenses. If I were to put it into context in English, we would sound like we're always speaking mostly in simple present tense, so the speaker generally always gives a time marker to an event to give context whether it's in the past or future.
@@sorasorisora thnx a lot bro, any resource to learn indonesian
@@sorasorisora bruh you from indonesia?
@@fuckgoogle667 indonesia, you can learn it on Duolingo
Wow, after hearing 'always use past tense' for years, one of the genre's foremost writers says 'it doesn't matter.' Where has he been all my life?
"Where has he been all my life?" Is that a past or present tense statement? 🤣
As an autistic person I find the idea of the book you mentioned to be very interesting. Not only do we see the world differently because our brains are wired in a unique way from all others, we also have trouble understanding others and expressing want we want. So in general communication of all types such as vocal or body languages can and do confuse us just like the changing of tenses in the book would throw the reader way off there thought tracks. It a good way to demonstrate the struggles of an autistic person like myself. Life is a struggle but we do have grand abilities and a strong focus for our special interests, I would always take the good with the bad because they make me who I am. To be honest I would never take the supposed fictional cure because I like who I am... generally it’s others who don’t, but why should I change who I am for others. Never as I am kind, caring, empathetic and strong focused on my passion for writing and my love of reading books. I just find making stories and hearing them comforting. They take me to a place we’re I feel that I can relate and even belong, where in the normal world it’s something often out of my reach and at times impossible to achieve and that is because other never accept who I am or the things which interest me. That said I would never take a cure for why be ordinary when you can be extraordinary.
As someone else with autism is agree with that sentiment, I wouldn’t take such a cure.
This kind of thing is really neat, thank you for sharing. I've heard a few hypothetical-cure discussions and although I've seen more people give thoughtful consideration than be offended, I've not heard anyone say they would actually take such a thing. Which is a primary reason I think it's so unfortunate that ADHD gets grouped in so much with autism. Because I assure you, I'd take that cure and ask about side effects later.
Sorry to go on a whole tangent, but this actually gets me thinking about a possible story concept using this one as inspiration. Maybe instead of past/present tense its a shift between 1st person and 3rd person (omniscient?) where the first person delves into all the exposition (of which half of it is unrelated to any of the rest of the story). Meanwhile if the plot also takes inspiration (essentially making it sort of a parody story) then I'd probably say its in a world where they've discovered ways to cure ADHD as well as anxiety disorders, depression disorders, and all such curses of nature, but the ADHD cure can't get proper research and production because all the people without the condition either think its immoral somehow or that it's unnecessary, even some still believing ADHD isn't real. Which now that I think of it could be a cool look into the effects that allowing masses of people to believe things that aren't true can still have on an individual who never fell for any of it. The character probably gets his hands on it at the end. The character wanting it being shockingly judged as much for a permanent and complete fix as for taking medicine to begin with, and maybe that even sparks a realization that among other things gets him to make the push to get it. Maybe he volunteers for testing knowing that any side effects can't outweigh what the illness already does. Then the story changes to where things are more clear and straightforward but you still get sentence structures and word choices that show the character voice. I'd consider writing it myself but I only enjoy sci-fi/fantasy and this sounds like it would feel more like historical fiction or even non-fiction to actually try writing and I have far too many ideas that I actually want to try producing that for obvious reasons I already have the deck stacked against me in trying to accomplish any of it. But even so, I thought it was a cool idea to throw out there.
Fun fact: in Mongolian novels, present tense is used for a sense of immediacy, but it is used alongside past tense, so you can get both in the same chapter or paragraph! I bet this is true in some other languages as well.
Wow. My brain hurts.
In German we do but only informally. For example we would turn "ran" in this sentence to present tense "Sam walked down the street. Suddenly a cat ran past him." ("Sam ist die Straße lang gelaufen. Plötzlich rennt eine Katze an ihm vorbei.")
@@sayven in Dutch too. We don't even blink at that
Other solution is write one saga of books in present, and other saga in past
Star Wars and the prequels
But then you have to decided which one to use which
The Warhammer 40k Horus Heresy novel "Know No Fear" is a great example of effective use of present tense narration in scifi-fantasy.
Thank you, I am so glad to hear this! I have been trying to write in first-person-present because I want to keep the story intimately focused on my main character's POV... but it's SO HARD for me, because my default writing voice is third-person-past. I've been fretting over it a lot! I finally started over with third-person-past because first-person-present was limiting my ability to describe the world in a way that made sense to readers. It's a totally different world, no humans or demi-humans, not Earth, so I really need the freedom to describe stuff beyond what the main character would think about. So I'm glad to hear that, in the end, I can just write in the voice that works best for ME, and it will still be okay for the STORY! :)
For me it is not really about the tense I use, but about the narrator. So if I, want a narrator-storyteller, I would choose third person, past tense (because he is telling a story he witnessed or just knows), but if I want to show my characters emotions I choose a personal narrator who gives me access to characters thoughts or first person. And here it gets tricky, because if I use present, I indicate, that it is happening now, in the moment of reading, which "kills" the omnious narrator or gives the impression,that the character is the narrator, but when I use past I usually try to say: my character/s went through something and is/are telling a story.
I generally prefer past tense for writing, though in D&D I like present tense. Though in stories, if we're hopping between literal past and present, swapping between the two can fit
are there any dnd games played in past tense? how does that work?
@@lichterin143 not that I've played, but I think if someone decides to run a prequel, it could work
@@OtepRalloma I'm just curious about how that would work? I just imagine that to be quite awkward if you'd have to say "I went 30 feet that way" when you're actually doing it right now, or other situations where you have to relay what you're doing now as a player. How do you mean you prefer present tense in DnD if you haven't played if I may ask? Do you have any examples of games played in past tense?
Probably just poor wording on my part, D&D in general is a present tense game
Is it okay to write some sentences in present tense while most sentences are generally past tenses? And I’m writing it in First-POV, too as if the main character is writing his diary about his past self being freaking stupid, naive, and messed-up until the right time when he can finally realize and shape his own strength.
Check out “Under Heaven” by Guy Gavriel Kay. Men are written in past, women in present. I think it might be a statement about how the world then perceives mens’ actions/lives/choices to have historical weight. While women are forced to contend with being mere implements, set adrift in their plans.
OMG! I am so glad that you brushed onto this topic. I have read a few books by an author (who is very popular right now... so I won't mention her name) but she occasionally slips between past and present tense in a single sentence! The first sentence of her most recent book does this using ten words: present tense words begin the descriptive, more present tense words mid-sentence and then past tense final thought. The book overall is very good, but the cadence disrupting descriptions take me out of a story. I use it as motivation to take out my 'work-in-progress story' and look more closely at my own word/structure choices.
Name? :p
I find my protagonist often dictates the tense. For example, an epic percy jackson-like adventure of heroism, and bravery, and a gauntlet of complex enemies and systems leans me into past because I feel my protagonist is retelling this epic tale at some point in the future and he/she can look back with sentiment or disgust (depending POV too). But if the protagonist has an arc that's mainly rooted in the character rather than a grand external stage, I like the immediacy of present tense.
First person present tense is immersion breaking. "He's pointing a gun at me." Stop talking to me and run.
'He points a gun at me.' works though.
It might be closer to “He points a gun at me”; the progressive present tense in your case does rob it of somewhat of its power
EDIT: Hah, beaten to it
This is hilarious hahah.
why say out loud "He's pointing a gun at me." and then action taken is stop talking to me and run. did you just jump to 4th person? are you talking to the reader?
wouldn't it be better:
"He has a Gun!" I yell while running away.
@@Kittsuera the conversation had nothing to do with saying something out loud or not....
And suddenly the comment section became tense with thoughts on the past present and future.
🤣🤣🤣 And THAT'S why I'm here! 😁
This is something I have to look out for, I’ll catch myself changing sometimes. I do all my direct thought in present and everything else in past. My thinking is that (in first person) the character is telling the story as if it just happened and the thought is currently happening. 🤷🏻♂️hopefully it reads well haha.
You always need to match the surrounding tense in free indirect speech, but you can use present tense in italicized inner thoughts. As in:
The man was annoying. _I_ _hate_ _this_ _guy._
@@AaronRotenberg I’m defining direct thought as inner thoughts, but thank you for the confirmation.
@@jimmychurch9588 As far as "hopefully it reads well," I remember James Tullos saying in a UA-cam video a while back that he was confused by a book written in first person that had some italicized thoughts in it, because he didn't know why those thoughts were special and needed to be written differently from the surrounding narration. But I've read first-person books that do that and never had a problem with it. 🤷♂️
This is important for me in my writing
Thank you so much for addressing it
Sweet. Thanks for this content!
As a non-native english speaker i would probably agree.I cannot remember what the last books i read used. But then again my taste is not really focused on such a detail. I mostly read for the story or characters and i have not come to the point where i could appreciate such things in english writing.
I haven't read many books in present tense, but I remember noticing partway through Andrew Clements' Things Not Seen that the book was in present tense and that it was adding a sense of tension to the story for me. It worked well in that book, but I generally prefer past tense.
Cool video! I prefer past tense for everything because it helps distance me from the story I'm writing a little bit. This helps if I'm writing from a perspective thats very far off from who I am in real life.
Always on point with the shirts. :)
I feel like I'm one of the few people who actually prefers present tense. Both as a writer and as a reader. Mainly because it gives you the option to use past tense for flashbacks / background / exposition. Using the same tense for the current narrative and for flashbacks can make it awkward to keep up with the chronology, and if you use past tense in the main narrative, you're stuck with past perfect for flashbacks. And you can only have a few sentences at a time in past perfect before it begins to feel very clunky.
I do think the two tenses lend themselves better to different genres, though. I feel like past tense is a better thematic fit for things like high fantasy, historical fiction, and biographies. Whereas present tense lends itself really well to noir / hardboiled, thrillers, mysteries, and the like.
Maybe it is a good thing that past perfect becomes clunky after a few sentences if you are using it for exposition. That might indirectly stop you from dumping too much on the reader at once and inspire you to get creative about it.
Anybody know which author he's talking about who switched tenses mid-book for no reason?
Lord Byron
@@pIayingwithmahwii Hmmm, except he claims to have asked the author so it must be someone modern.
@@antoinemonks4187 that's the joke
Elisabeth moon, the book is called Speed of Dark, but I think he says it right before he starts describing it
scratch that, I hadn't watched till the end yet XD
Praise the Sun!
I'll add that book to my list. Sounds interesting.
These lectures are really damn useful
English speaking author: ok, I cannot switch between tenses or I will look sloppy
Spanish speaking author: So. Which of the 7+ tenses should I use now?
what?! how do you guys have that many tenses?? this is like saying you have more colors than we do. english only has like 4 or 5 tenses i believe. and i studied latin too, which had the same amount of tenses. i find it hard to believe spanish doesnt have the same as latin.
not saying youre wrong, just saying im surprised
@@pIayingwithmahwii I haven’t studied Latin so I can’t speak on it but we have present, past, co-past, post-past, future, and a whole bunch of combinations. Most of the time you use them in tandem (like past and past participle) because they refer to different moments in time but they are still tenses and there are many of them.
@@pIayingwithmahwii So, both English and Spanish can describe the same types of time events, but Spanish does it with tenses and English does it with helping verbs.
In English, we can say I ran, I have run, I had run, I would have run, I will run, I will have run, I will be running, I have been running, I had been running, etc. We describe different times using the helping verbs ``be,'' ``have,'' and ``will.'' Spanish does these with different tenses instead of helping verbs.
Past, Present and Future Tense are overrated. Give me books told in the Conditional Tense.
That would be an interesting read
Time for an entire book in subjunctive mood.
Some children’s books are written this way, such as “If You Give a Mouse a Cookie” and “If Animals Kissed Goodnight.”
Found the code writer.
Who doesn’t love a bit of an modh coinníollach?
My default tense is first person, but it is so versatile for me to switch to others with ease like third person. I find I switch between past going into present, although... Present I'm infatuated with. It delivers on what I like to read the most, so I might change the almost forced prose of first person past to present. It has a noticeably different punch. I've tried using first person past mixed with the imperfect to make the past feel as close to the moment of ongoing action, but directing all words into present hits different. I tried so hard when the other way is just easier lol
The Dean Koontz novel Intensity (1995) switches between past and present tense. The story is told past tense from the potential victim's perspective, but switches to present tense when the POV is from the serial killer stalking her.
Yes, but did it flow smooth enough where you were able to follow the story all the way to the end?
@@michaelsherron7815 Actually, yes. It was an interesting technique, but not one I'd recommend for general use.
But there, it added a sense of immediacy whenever we were in the killer's perspective. Some readers don't even notice what's different, but just feel that something is off. It added a bit to the creep factor, for some readers.
Again, NOT something for general use. But if you have a reason for breaking the rules - like Koontz did there - then breaking the rules can work.
@@mbaker8492 thank you for your response
Switching between tenses is a really interesting way to indicate people seeing the world differently. I might just have to read speed of dark.
I write "fantasy" (closest thing to match my genre bending) and I usually third person limited present tense and I purposely use second person limited present in important death scenes and third person limited past tense for flashbacks but the transitions will be marked. Don't like it? Whatever
I see Brandon praises the sun.
The British spy author John LeCarre uses tense in an interesting way....most memorably in "Our Game" where (if i recall correctly) most of the novel is set in past tense, except for the flashback sequences which are set in present tense. The way in which present tense is used to signify a past event or memory was weirdly effective.
One advantage of present tense is that all flashbacks can be in past tense.
Praise the Sun! \[T]/
When I read the first law books I find it hard to be immersed in the scene because it's past tense, but I also have ADHD so I guess it prevents or makes it hard for me to "filter" the tense as I'm reading
Yea, when I do write any scene in my book, I have to remember past tense and present tense, since those two are my enemy.
That last story made me laugh
I get used to it if the book is good otherwise, but I really dislike third person present tense.
Well, this makes me feel a lot better about that lol. I accidentally switch between tenses all the time.
If anyone wants to see a perfect example on how to mix different tenses, I'd recommend 100 years of solitude. Although i've ony read it in spanish so I'm not sure how well this aspect was translated.
And please stop hating on present tense and "literary fiction", I know this is a Fantasy writer's page and that you probably hated beeing forced to read that type of books in school, but they serve an important purpose nonetheless. You don't have to like them but to hate them just for the sake of it, only makes you and your community look bad.
I'm not good at English, so I decided to write a story. I used past tense when I explained what happen in the story, I also use present tense when the characters speak. Is that true or the best thing is to change all the tense into present tense?
IS THAT A DARK SOULS SHIRT?!
Have you read "THE FIFTH SEASON" by N.K. Jemisin? It's the first book I've read where the tense was not just present, but also, what do you call it when "YOU" is used by the narrator, as if the reader is the protagonist in the scene? At first it threw me off because it switched POV chapter to chapter, but now, I find I like it, though it still feels odd. Any thoughts on that?
I loved The Fifth Season for doing this! It made the book feel dynamic and unique and it fit the narrative really well. It was great on audiobook too. 👌🏻
Warboy by Karen Lowachee is also partially written that way.
For some reason, present tense really bothers me.
Me too. I've read a couple book series like that and it takes me a while to get used to it.
but don't we all write in present tense all the time in the comment sections? ;D
@@Kittsuera Yeah, I just noticed that as I was writing the comment ;)
Yet you used it to write this post.
I've played with both, and it can be a pain switching from writing one to the other. Soo many words to correct the spelling for.
Anyone knows who's book changed tenses like that?
What even is "literary fiction?"vi never heard that term in my language.
It's basically a category of realistic fiction that some people decided should be taken more seriously than other writing. A lot of it in the US comes from people who graduated from creative writing MFA programs.
'Literary fiction' might be more character based, and explore ideas in an unusual experimental/form/format, perhaps without much plot (such as stream of consciousness) whereas 'genre fiction' is more conventional, mainstream and typically plot based. However, it's possible to write a book that fits in both categories. Some books from the past that were considered genre fiction at the time of publication are now thought of as 'literary'. Think of it like the difference between an indie movie and a Hollywood movie.
In Spanish we call this realismo mágico. If you don’t study literature you won’t remember cause they gave us(generally) this basically junior high
That's because it's a US category. US Americans divide books into "genre fiction" - mostly popular writing, sci-fi, fantasy, probably other stuff - and sort of "actual literature". It doesn't really make much sense.
@@alejandrosantana5693 While magic realism fits into literary fiction, there is more to literary fiction than just that, for example dystopian and utopian novels or proto-fantasy and scifi like mostly everything by Jules Verne.
Then you got flow of conciousness writing where a future events are present tense to really screw with you
In my writing, I accidentally switched past and present tense every other sentence
the print on his t-shirt is praise the sun?
both are fine, but i prefer to read present tense fiction. it feels much more natural for me. humans think and live in the present tense. it's our default for most experiences and most media (especially movies), and i don't know why novels should be any different. it can also feel redundant to read "this happened" and "they said that" with every paragraph. yeah, i get it. these fictional events are not actively happening in the present moment as i read. i figured that out. you don't need to remind me every time that something happens. if all of the book's events are described in chronological order, think that tense is mostly a stylistic choice. whether you use present or past, that doesn't greatly affect the content of the story. present tense is less wordy and in my opinion, easier to engage with. a lot of books include flashback scenes, and in that case i think it's best to use present tense for the main narrative and past tense for the flashbacks
Why do Fused refer to changed spren as corrupted? Should that not be a biased perception? 🤔
Flipping between the two is something i am very bad at, it is like a bad driving habit that you don't seem to notice at the time and seems totally normal. My brain is like; this is happening now then i mention something from another angle about the same event happening and suddenly switch to past tense. It means a ton of revision work to fix these which could of been avoided in the first place. I wonder if there are exercises i can do to rewire my brain.
Praise the sun
Lovin the zero dislikes on the vid. 🤩
I am confused. I know what tense is but I have never really considered it a thing in writing until now! is this just: she said, he says, he would say?? past/present/future? or am I an idiot?
That is what it means. Past: said. Present: says.
Some new writers have a tendency to switch between them without realizing it. I have a friend who writes in past, but tends to slip into present during action scenes.
1.1k likes without a single dislike...!!!
how about this: past tense for normal life, then switch to present in dreams
Past Future Perfect Tense.
past tense
Write an entire book in future perfect tense. Maybe they're gods who perceive time all at once?
That will have been an interesting exercise once the author will have completed it.
As long as it's not first person present tense. It's such a jarring and unnatural way to tell or read a story.
I dislike your discrimination of Future Tense
I will disagree with this
I honestly don't think I've ever read or heard of a book written in future tense.
@@David-un4cs Will see? There will have had been discrimination against future tense. Future tense supporters will have risen up.
@@chelrok8764 this sounds like dialogue a character would say during a speech, not how a narrator would tell a story (especially if the story has already happened)
I'm not a fan of present tense because it has a weird distancing effect. Almost as of everything is happening at once, rather than a series of events.
hows that even possible? changing from past to present tense, thats what editors do?
But have you considered: future tense
TIL I don't like present tense.
Have no clue what tense I write in
Wait what? How on earth?
You can google examples if you want to look into it, it’s something that’s good to be aware of.
Sorry probably worded that wrong but it’s more that u haven’t really thought about it
Thanks
No worries man, I’m always finding out new stuff about writing. I think that’s part of the process.
Well if you write in future tense, it becomes very annoying.
i don't like present tense
Can't stand present tense; it reads so weird
The square restaurant surgically bury because surgeon lilly succeed up a superficial mechanic. lush, stingy canadian
I'm just gonna say it: If I pick up your book at it's present tense, I'm putting it down now matter what. I can't read it.
Praise the sun