The 4 Ways to Write 3rd Person Omniscient
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- Опубліковано 22 тра 2022
- 3rd Person Omniscient is historically one of the most used POVs, but these days you don't see it as much. How do you write third person omniscient? It has many paths you can take and is heavily intermingled with 3rd person limited. Deciding what path you want to take will help you set goals and stay oriented as you write.
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This wraps up our series on POV! I'll probably make a video on 2nd person eventually, but I want to explore other topics before I get there. If you're unsure which POV is right for you, check out the first video in this series to find the best choice for your story: ua-cam.com/video/-2o4urElTC4/v-deo.html
I am actually doing that "All show, no tell" part (mostly) :)
It makes me feel like a god when I'm writing third person. I don't know why but I prefer more on writing the settings and world building rather than the actual story.
Great video! I wish the repetitive drum and cymbal track in the background wasn't there though :( after a while, I could only hear the percussion and not the words.
I'd like to propose an alternate version of the old saying, specifically for 3rd person omniscient: mute your darlings. Every character's thoughts are important to me as the writer, but not everyone's thoughts advance or clarify the plot. But it does hurt a little every time I erase or rewrite someone's pov paragraph through they eyes of a focal character.
(This is for editing purposes - I think venturing into those thoughts can be really helpful in an initial draft, especially if you have a large cast.)
For sure! It's important to know what is actually important to share, especially in 3rd person omniscient stories, which tend to be complicated haha!
I love that! I may use that phrase as a screen saver. :). Mute Your Darlings. I struggle with it, and agree for a first draft it is easier to vomit it all out and revisit. It breaks my flow if I concentrate too much on the muting as I go. But, yeah, silencing and revising their thoughts can be tough.
I'm a complete beginner with writing a novel but so far I've been able to identify it as 3rd Person Omniscient. A fun/creative rule I have is that it gradually emerges that one of the characters is actually me (and I'm the narrator). In doing so, my knowledge of this one character is much more intimate and delicate than all the others ... and only gradually becomes the main character, and my knowledge and narration of characters that my main character is indifferent towards is intentionally limited and shallow. Mind Candy!
So far I am definitely using the fourth style. Like Dune, my story has a lot going on, and with several characters. It would be a lot more work and would mean a crap ton more chapters and scenes to do it any other way.
that's what I'm doing with my debut novel, I show the perspective of the main characters.
What kind of writer are you limiting yourself to the number of chapters rather than telling the story you wish to tell the way it asks to be told? Imagine Frank Herbert or Tolkien saying that: "Ah shit, I'd rather do it like this or else I'd have to write shit tons of additional chapters."
You are writing for the wrong reasons. You don't seem to enjoy telling stories but rather the end-goal, which is probably something more ego-driven.
@@rustneversleeps85 that last part about it being a lot more work was meant as a kind of joke. Trust me when I say, I'm not limiting myself by any such things. I got into writing because I love stories. I've spent the last fifteen years writing and perfecting, what was once one book, but has turned into three. Do I want to move forward yes, but I also want the best possible version, of the story I want to tell.
Prescience is one of the main concept of DUNE. So not only the style makes us follow Paul's struggle with his prescient abilities, but the style actually makes readers as prescient as Paul is since we can follow all characters' thoughts and exactly know the future from Irulan's epigraphs at the beginning of each chapter. From the beginning, we know the end of the story. In a way, Herbert makes us live Paul's experience fully.
I think another axis you could add is whether or not the narrator knows they are telling a story or are just experiencing the story as it happens. Some 3rd limited narrators are recounting events but most experience things as they happen. Some omniscient narrators are observers, but imo the best know where the story is going and actually add to the story outside of it's actual contents.
I actually do the low knowledge on characters but high knowledge on the world kind of narration :)
I have meta reasons for it
I call it "Omnituent", which means "All seeing" and hence "all show, no tell"
Wonderful video! Thank you for the insight 😸
I think you could write a book using the IV quadrant if you restricted your head-hopping to inner thoughts between two characters as part of dialogue. It can add to the emotional intensity and immediacy of some scenes. I am writing a novel now where I find it works better than religiously sticking to single POV chapters. Agree that the chapter needs to be clear about who is thinking what. Should also be used sparingly.
man I just gotta say I love this videos!
Sacrifice for the algorithm!
This has been incredibly helpful. Thank you.
Hey, I know I'm a bit late to this video, but I would like to thank you for making it since I would really like to become a fantasy author but was having a lot of trouble understanding how to do this point of view. The video was clear and straight to the point. You Certainly gained a sub today. Thanks!
Glad you found it helpful! Good luck with your writing 😄
Hmm... i think like DUNE.... that might be... my style...
no wonder i find it hard to explained to others, or dont feel like i fit into the other perspectives.
I really understand the temptation; it really seems like the most flexible, if not unorthodox, POV out there. It just sounds so appealing being able to describe things in broad and cinematic ways, but also zoom in close enough to hear a character’s thoughts. I just don’t know how marketable it is. Haha.
I hope the writing is going well!
I gave myself the challenge of writing a romance story in 3rd omniscient following more the dune style. I didn’t realize this was the style of dune before this video as I have not read dune or even attempted to do so. I just wanted to write a story in a different less common perspective than what I’ve read most commonly.
I’m enjoying the challenge so far and I am loving it.
I write in the style of DUNE. I think of it as film in a book. It can be panoramic, or zoom in to an intimate monologue. The POV can jump from one party/location to another. But the narrator doesn't blather on about events independent of the character's actions, except when scene setting or describing happenings not involving any particular character, e.g. a huge traffic accident up the road that the MC is about to run into.
Ty for saying its a spectrum. No one talks about it which was furstrating being a reader of post modern fiction that can be very mixed.
For sure! Once something has a label, it tends to have a single definition, but with the arts that's not always the best way to approach understanding things about it. It's weird because phrases like "3rd person omniscient" are so helpful to discuss writing, but it oversimplifies so much at the same time haha!
what a perfect topic!
amazing ty!!!
Damn.
I'm trying to avoid narrative POVs that are overly complex, but I'm here to see what tips and tricks there are to make quadrant IV more approachable to readers.
Head hopping between paragraphs like Dune isn't confusing. It's no different than how dialogue is treated.
The new line plus character name and action beat equals you are now following that character, thoughts, speech, or otherwise. Replace the internal thoughts with dialogue and it works the same.
Thanks so much for this. I'm working in 3rdPO rn and I can't see a way around it because of the nature of it.
Much more mindful of the pitfalls of the challenges of Dune, however. Will carefully take that into consideration.
Again, heartfelt thanks
I wrote about 30k words for NaNo one year in all show, no tell style. It wasn't good, but it was a good learning experience.
It's long gone by now, unfortunately. Would have lived to read it back, but alas
I am planning one story that would be written in 3rd Omni, since the narator is an Oracle. I even have scenes planned where the narator has to backtrack, is surprised or uncertain and contradicts themself, as well as a scene where the main character meets the Oracle, which will include the only one single paragraph written in 1st.
Sounds really cool! Have you made any progress?
@@SillyRobot Not a lot. I have bits and bobs, disconencted scenes and loose concepts. Sometimes it seems, the more I try to work on it, the more it falls apart
@@StarlasAiko Damn. Sounds cool though, I hope it works out.
If you're looking for books that fit the second quadrant in this example, I think Where'd You Go, Bernadette by Maria Semple is a close fit. It's not perfect, but the daughter is only left with clues so she can only guess what happened (through observation) of what happened to her mother.
Also, Ella Minnow Pea by Mark Dunn would fit this as well. Great story. One of my favorites, but it is very unconventional.
I recommend checking those out if you want to study this type of "low narrator knowledge and low character knowledge" writing.
Thanks. Now I know that I was writing my story observationally. I don't know if that contributed to my lack of progress. But I kind of like it. The omniscient PoV is great for big stories. I just don't really enjoy narration so much. And I'm unsure how to write it well. What to say? When? What to not say?
What do you think about a short series on tense and how that decision would tie into particular POV styles and genres?
I want to write in 3rd person omn. However everything I find online says getting published will be almost impossible. Not that I'm expecting to be published but I have several main characters that are important. I've tried to pick just one, but my big focus is that they are all equals so for one to be the important one - 1st person pov feels wrong.
I say go for it! You're going to have way more chances at success if you write something you're comfortable with as opposed to forcing a POV you don't like. Point of view isn't going to get your published-a great story will though.
Just look at Where the Crawdads Sing. One of the bestselling novels of recent times, and it’s written in third omniscient 🤷♂️
I came here to figure out what my story is - the Dune type - oops. But I don't know any other way to tell it. The narrator is the Overseer of the world and literally is omniscient.
I’m in the same boat, big world, group dynamic with several protagonists. I wouldn’t know how to tell it from one, or even just two limited perspectives.
In terms of 3rd person omniscient, how would you characteriuze The illuminatus Trilogy by Shea and Wilson?
Okay so could you switch between 1 and 2 throughout a novel since its a spectrum????
Technically yes. Actually, Jennifer Egan has a short story collection that uses 1st, 2nd, and (I think?) 3rd person. One is even structured as a powerpoint. You have to turn the book 90˚ and everything. It's wild.
Should you or I do that? I don't know but hey may as well give it a shot if you want to!
-A
@@AroundTheCampfire I feel like it would make the story almost all show and very little tell. Which would be powerful.
I understand third person omniscient, but what I don't understand is can the third person narrator have dialogue where he isn't present. For example, the third person narrator is describing a deadly car crash. Can the driver and the passenger in the car have dialogue when the narrator isn't in the car?
The narrator is everywhere. Your main character isn't. Think of the omniscient narrator like a movie camera. The camera can see what the main character doesn't. Depending on where the camera is, you can create anticipation, dread, or confusion. Each can be useful when done right.
I'm writing my YA fiction in the DUNE way and I'm enjoying it. It has 5 main characters because why not I guess? But beta readers doesn't understand my art... xD
That's the problem with third person drumming - you can't hear or concentrate on what the first person narrator is saying. Extremely annoying.
great content, but the drum solo on top is insanely irritating
What’s up with the drum? All I hear is the drum. I can’t concentrate on what you say whatsoever.
You made me snort with the …..give a dog a bone. 🦴