I think that Marika’s bedchamber being at the top of the genealogy tree isn’t about legitimizing her but it’s rather an honest depiction of what’s going on - Marika isn’t part of the genealogy because she’s Numen, but the offspring that will come out of that bedchamber will be Empyreans born under the Erdtree and thus the first pure manifestations of the Golden Lineage
Man thanks really, after 300hrs playing this game I was sad that most of lore videos didn't cover basically anything, leaving behind a lot of stuff that only you and few others are starting to talk about
If you go looking under Stormveil near where the Tree Spirit is you can actually find a bunch of human corpses lying inside of half opened seed/fruit pods. I always wondered what the deal with those were, but now I understand. Thanks man.
I always wondered if those were bodies coming *from* the pods or being stuffed into the roots, via the pods. Afterall, Godfrey's corpse was shoved into the roots of the erdtree and I do wonder if that is why the pods are located at the same location?
The Elphael relief of a tree sprouting babies (11:18), which is flanked by statues of soldiers with spears, takes direct inspiration of the main facade of the Colegio de San Gregorio in Valladolid, Spain, house of the National Museum of Sculpture. In case you want to check that out!
My take would be this: the "fruits" of the Erdtree probably represent not corporeal humans, but new *souls* ready to be reincarnated. Because of the removal of the Runa of Death, souls of the deceased can no longer freely move to the afterlife, but instead are left bound to their physical remains (as seen with the Spirit Ashes mechanic) - and the Erdtree(s) are meant to absorbs these old souls and kind of recycle them into new ones.
More than new Souls, my take is that the Erdtree fruits are either some kind of reincarnation (very unlikely) or the way beings like the Godfrey Phantom can later appear. The big thing about the Erdtree is immortality. As long as you are part of the system of the Golden Order, you are immortal, that you want it or not. Recycling Souls feels like you, as an individual, stop existing. Your soul being made into a new magical entity eternally bound to the Erdtree fits perfectly on the other hand
@@Hyperversum3 neat. I presume that in the 3+ months since this comment you have become familiar with the seedbed curse and how it fully uppends your assumption that reincarnations are implausible? (being fully dependent on them, and all)
Until proven otherwise, I maintain that there is no such thing as an afterlife, in real life or the lands between. Removing the rune of death is strictly a positive action.
I was kind of bummed when I found out there was a lot of cut content involving hanging out with Malenia, but knowing Millicent is a certified clone of her makes me feel better about it. She may not have the street credit of her mom but, as a poor person in real life, I'm content enough to vibe with the Kmart Great Value version of the real thing.
This video series is awesome! No wonder that so many channels were not able to extract more lore from Elden Ring, as interpreting the clues given via ingame models, textures and architecture seems to require a lot of knowledge about their real-life inspirations. Kudos to you! I hope this gets recommended to more people.
Interesting, I wonder if giving the great rune to Renalla is what "broke" the erdtree rebirth process - after all that would have been when "rebirth" was removed from the Elden Ring.
Radegon didn't give her the shard, he is after all a servant of the greater will, he would never willingly take out the most important piece of the shard, he gave her but the amber egg, the shard fell into it after the shattering.
I think what really messed things up was two different occurences: First was when Marika plucked the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring, which fundamentally altered the relationship between death and the world The second wrench in the machine of this process is the death of Godwyn the Golden-- or rather his half-death. Alive in physical body only, Godwyn's living-corpse infested the very roots of the Erdtree and created Those Who Live in Death, more beings who were alive in body but not in soul, and thus could not be returned to the Erdtree properly
@@hawkwood9257 Can you please explain what do you mean by fell into the Egg? I was under the assumption this might as well be all Marika's plan, since Radagon is Marika, their duality play a role in their divergent actions, giving her the Amber Egg with the Rune of Rebirth makes sense.
I think SmoughTown makes a pretty good argument for the bloom outside of Malenia's boss room belonging to one of Millicent's sisters, not Malenia, in his video on her and the scarlet rot. One of the best parts of the argument being that Scarlet Aeonia's description talks about her blooming for a third time in the future tense, as an event yet to occur, despite us only being able to acquire that item after fighting Malenia and watching her bloom, meaning the bloom during our fight with her couldn't be the third bloom. Furthermore, the idea of the bloom outside of Malenia's boss fight belonging to one of Millicent's sisters, who all seem to dwell in the Haligtree, rather than Malenia is supported by the fact we find the traveler's garb in front of it, the clothing Millicent and all of her sisters wear, and that the bloom is the same size as Millicent's as well, both of which are smaller than Malenia's bloom. Also, it just doesn't really make sense for Malenia to have bloomed for the first time in Caelid, then to be carried back to the Haligtree by Cleanrot Knight Finlay, only for her to randomly bloom again just outside Miquella's embedment site/her resting place for an unspecified reason, then to have just walked into, or been taken into, the next room over to finish her long nap next to the Haligtree roots. After all it took us bringing Malenia to the brink of defeat for her to bloom, I see no reason for her to randomly produce a bloom the size of one of her daughter's blooms without any known provocation, basically out of nowhere. That feels like it might have come up in one of the item descriptions about Malenia or Cleanrot Knight Finlay's tale of heroism if it happened. After all, the other two confirmed blooms were given a lot of focus.
my thinking is that if it was malenia's bloom in that room, it isn't her second bloom, but rather her first, with her second bloom being that with radahn. her name change during the fight to Goddess of Rot is in line with it being her third bloom, as scarlet aeonia describes her rising to being a goddess only after her third bloom. with the butterflies coming from her wings and being strongly associated with her, i think that each bloom she has is larger and has made her more powerful, similar to a caterpillar becoming a butterfly but needing multiple steps. if she was once smaller when she was younger, say, as small as the statues of her with miquella make her out to be relative to miquella, it's possible that her first bloom would be the smallest and caused by her maturing, and her second, a far more powerful time when pushed to stress by radahn, while the third is what rises her to the title of goddess during the fight with the tarnished.
@@TheEveryDayC Yet the item description talks about the third bloom in the future tense, and references that as being when she will become a true goddess. The use of the phrase true goddess, combined with the future tense used in reference to her third bloom, that the bloom outside Malenia's boss room is the same size as Millicents, but smaller than Malenia's other blooms and has a travelers set in front of it (the same clothes Millicent and her sisters wear), and that Millicent and her sisters don't become scarlet valkyries as Gowry said they would after Malenia ascended, all suggest to me that the bloom that we see is only her second one.
Melina blooms twice during her fight though. I don't know if the second one is meant to be the third in the grand scheme, but I'm inclined to think it is.
I’m not sure how much you’ll be able to uncover about these since there aren’t many if any specific locations that pertain to them but the Death Birds (ghostflame) society and Crystalians could be cool to analyse. Crystalians are seemingly ancient and shrouded and in mystery, possibly having their own outer god too
I really hope we get more about the Crystalians in any eventual DLC. A bunch of magically adept, possibly alien mineral beings that are somehow still able to be afflicted by scarlet rot, made a pact with the sorcerers, and are awaiting the return of their mysterious creator? Every part of that is super intriguing! Also they just seem like a fun bunch, bouncing around everywhere and playing with crystal frisbees.
You know, it makes so much sense. What is the Erdtree? Essentially the Elden Beast. What is the Elden Beast? The Elden Ring. What is the Elden Ring made out of? Runes. What does everyone, including the player, drop when killed? Runes. We make ourselves and our weapons stronger with them. It's like even matter is made out of runes. When people die, according to one of the fundamental laws of the Golden Order, the Law of Regression, their runes join to the Elden Ring, which is the Erdtree. From it, they are then birthed anew, according to the Law of Causality, thus forming a circle of life. Meanwhile, those special people whose runes have been influenced by either outer gods or specific aspects of the ER (Malenia and her rot, Godwyn and his deathblight due to being soulkilled with the rune of death) can also effect this cycle if they establish their influence in an area, causing life in that area to morph to their likeness due to their souls being affected by passing through their influence upon death. Everything really does revolve around runes in the end.
Don’t take this as me contradicting you as I know little to nothing about the game. Is very interesting but hard to remember. But there’s something that is bothering me. How were things before the erdtree? Where people still transform into runes? Where did they go? Does it say anywhere in the game?
@@GeoPePeTto We don't know how life was ordered before the Erdtree, but there are some hints. We know that the Elden Ring existed before Melania became the vessel, and that it did contain the rune of death. We also know that runes are the actual manifestations of their concepts, so an Elden Ring bereft of a specific rune will exclude that concept from the greater order of the lands between and an Elden Ring containing it will include this concept. We see a previous version of the Elden Ring in the Farum Azula cathedral where we fight Maliketh. It is a much more complex pattern that, In addition to including the rune of death, also includes a lot of iconography associated with the Crucible and Hornsent cultures. We see no other Elden Ring patterns, which implies that Placidusax's vessel-god set up the previous version which lasted until Marika ascended. So, this old order incorporated concepts of death, mutation, evolution, among others. I think births occurred "naturally", producing bodies and souls. When a creature died, the soul was burned in ghostflame less it became a spirit. Mutations were common, resulting in a "blending" of forms (the omen and misbegotten are holdovers of this), and gods had a greater influence on the world.
Absolutely fantastic work! I love how many times your videos have blown open my perspective of the lore of Elden Ring. And with such "small" details too such as tapestry and carved reliefs! I'm someone who will just stare at these sorts of details in game but I hadn't made the connection! Fascinating!
Just finished Elden Ring yesterday (and let chaos take the world) and can't wait to delve into the rich lore. This game has so much to offer and people like you enhance this unique experience even more. Great work man, looking forward to watching your videos.
In the tapestries that depict the erdtree at the 5:14, if you look really closely right under the throne, the highest branch that splits into two branches (making a kind of y shape) looks exactly like Marika's pose in her crucifixion, and Radagon's in his cutscene. There is also a knot at the center that looks exactly like a head. Interestingly, this is not present in the throne depictions of the genealogy tree. Once you see it, it jumps right out at you. She not only is at the head, but she is represented as a part of the actual tree itself.
I got started on your content with the schism of the two and three fingers and I must say you really bring a proper academic lens to the lore of Elden Ring. I have to wonder what about the game gave you the impression that you could apply such a serious and thorough approach to the game? Like what did you notice that made you think “Oh there’s a lot to this game worthy of a proper scholarly examination.” Because I don’t think most games would warrant this level of serious inquiry. Great work. I wish you and your channel so much success.
Honestly this just blows the "From is lazy argument" with how deliberate the choice was to reuse assets. This shit is so well thought out it's bonkers. This makes me want to look at stuff with fully open eyes and not just pixels. I'm truly in awe of this game and it makes things make so much sense.
So happy to see your videos and channel blow up since the last time I was here. Absolutely the best Elden Ring content I’ve seen to date, loved all your work so far.
i was skeptical that this video could reveal anything new but i'm quite impressed by your attention to detail and tracking down inspirations in the real world
If people can be reborn via sacred trees, then that would definitely help explain how Marika and Radagon had children while being the same person. It also explains how Millicent and her sisters were born, probably from the scarlet bloom.
Just watched all your videos and, man... You have such a keen eye for details! I'm honestly flabbergasted by the level of care fromsoft has put on this world and it's history, going as far as worry about the consistency on the ancient tablets and murals they've placed in the underground cities. I believe most developers would just copy-paste from existing ones, but they took it a step further by really fusing the world's lore with it's architecture
I feel like Melena's question is less to show that she doesn't know about being born of a mother, but rather that she's is not born that way, hence unfamiliar with the personal effects. The fact that she asks you, kinda implies that should know, a.i. be born of a mother
When translating the original Japanese into english using google, it says, "I wonder if a mother, being born from a mother, is what everyone is like" also instead of Kindling Maiden, The Blade of Calling describes her as "The Girl of the Seed" However I find that the translation can change drastically by removing sentences "A dagger given to those who set out on a mission. The power of its ancient owner, the Girl of the Flame, remains in this sword. Those who walk with the flame will one day see their fateful death." It seems that translation becomes much closer to the official when the sentences are curated
I’m baffled by your ability to pick up on the most subtle of clues. Tbh, I think your videos are the closest any of us are going to get to understanding Elden Ring. I’ve watched hundreds of lore videos and none are as thorough as these. Thank you
Great video, as always! :) I'm of the conclusion that Melina is similar to Millicent as being born from an event and being part of Malenia but instead being part of Marika and perhaps it's the shattering that made her.
Fantastic video as always. Not many people look at souls games the way you do and it's great to have another out there! Concerning the Tree of Jesse, it's interesting that there may be a potential illegitimacy within the royal line (Perhaps this is where the "secret" of Radagon fits in?), as one of the main criticisms of early Christianity through the eyes of Judaism was that the geneology just did not fit. For example, only two gospels out of the four use Geneology's, and one of them (iirc it is Matthew, not 100% sure) actually uses head-scratchingly incorrect geneological steps. It skips entire generations, and often-times outright uses made-up or nonsensical names that can be directly refuted by looking at multiple Hebrew sources that show the actual descendants of King David. It is true that Joseph, father of Jesus is indeed a descendant of David; which is required in order for Jesus to fit the prophecy of the Moshiach (Messiah), but it is often criticized as being "tacked on" in order to give credibility to Jesus as the only Messianic candidate; since if Jesus is not "really" JOSEPH'S son but GOD's son the whole story falls apart. If he is God's son then he can not be the messiah as Mary isn't descended of David and Jesse. If he is Joseph's son then he may be Messiah but can't be "son of god". Thus the early church or the gospel writers themselves may have hastily added in incorrect geneologies to cover this semi-obvious hole. Further to that matter, the timeline of the gospels shows that only the later gospels dated to nearly 100 years after Jesus, even bring up Joseph as even EXISTING! There is a fair amount of doubt among hebrew speaking scholars that Joseph himself may be a later addition to connect Jesus to the Messianic line of David. This is where the relatively well known conspiracy of Jesus being actually born of a Roman soldier named "Pantera" can potentially be corroborated as there is a line in the ancient Talmudic writings stating that there was a "heretic" among Judaism known as "Yeshu ben Pantera". (Joshua son of Pantera. Jesus is a Latin translation of a greek "Iesous" which is translated from Yeshua in hebrew meaning Joshua, Jesus' original name). Most Rabbi's will deny this, however it is often believed that this is in response to many Jews and holy Jewish texts being burned en-mass for centuries on claims that the Talmud and Jews were "evil" for blaspheming against god by mentioning ill things about Jesus. So it's likely that Rabbi's even today would be Exceedingly shy about revealing these lines to actually have been truly referencing Jesus and not other figures such as "Yeshu the sorcerer" who was accused of practicing egyptian magic 100 years before christ.
Very informative and well written. It's amazing how so many religions always tend to spring up from amalgamations of various poorly attested stories all tied together by people retelling older tales and events to fit their narratives and feelings on society and its direction, especially christianity itself coming from very vague and sometimes contradictory texts. Not trying to disprove anyone's beliefs or anything, just saying that none of us were there and everything was based off of "I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy". The game of telephone really comes to mind.
I think the part how Jesus = Joshua is really interesting. If you look at Vlad the Impaler and what pop culture has done with the character then apply that to Yeshu the sorcerer and you can really see how Jesus' myth really was broad. Also if Yeshu became something like a popular belief like Merlin in England you could have stories built up for centuries now being attributes to this one guy until the church picks him up as their mascot, chop out any blasphemous pagan witchcraft qnd a quick correction to his name and BOOM. Almighty Jesus, son of God is born.
Just came across your channel (from a recommendation by Smoughtown) and wow, I absolutely love your detailed analysis with real-world references. Really nice work, and fascinating videos!
I love how you pointed out how "literal" the erdtree's function in this process, as the game is filled with ideas being taken literally. remember when before the game's release, and people speculated on the "two fingers", thinking of them like a group of people potentially, like an organisation? nope, straight up. 2 fingers When old albus says that his legs are fading, I bet many took it as "aw, his legs are giving out 😔", but no, if you're able to look at them, they're literally fading. then we have a case of (spoiler free) a character commiting the most literal form of genderfluid one could have. Rahdan literally frozen the stars of the sky The members of Sol who tried to make an eclipse occur for Miquella literally tried to swallow the Sun, explaining why it's so relatively small compared to the large moons. I gotta wonder what all this literal forces in the Lands Between mean? or is it simply a reference to how alot of tales from around the Gaelic area have pretty weird stories that sound more like events that occured rather than stories with messages or meanings (this part is made with alot of lack of knowledge, so I do acknowledge that it's my weakest point here)
@@lorddervish212quinterosara6 I mean, the (spoiler free) character literally trans' their gender right infront of you before you fight them. Can't really think of taking being technically genderfluid in a more literal way
@@OrchinX Good luck, I don't think you're going to dissuade the notion of 'muh genderfluidity' when the only reason it's been slapped ontop like a cheap veneer here is because ideological proponents read their identity into every medium.
@@GutsmanLoL yes, but the guy above doesn't like the woke stuff, so he lies to himself about things in the game being much deeper than they actually are. It's almost sad to read 😆
Love the video! I figured that Millicent and her sisters were products of botanical gestation, but I hadn't considered that to be the rule of the world rather than the exception. The only major issue I can think of is when you reference Malenia's blooming in our battle with her being her third. I used to think this as well (possibly triggered while dueling her former master, whose blade we can procure near Ordina, Liturgical Town) until three factors were brought to my attention (SPOILERS AHEAD): 1: Should you choose to betray Millicent (first of all, how dare you), she too blooms into a Scarlet Aeonia. Gowry makes references to her blooming as a part of the process of becoming a Scarlet Valkyrie. 2: After Malenia blooms in our fight with her, she is unclothed (prosthetics excluded) during the second phase. Her bloom might be more powerful than Millicent's, or this could be a typical occurrence for this blooming process. 3: at the foot of this bloom we can procure the Trveler's Set. The set that's worn not only by Millicent, but by all her sisters that we meet as well (and Melina, for some reason). All this makes me believe that the bloom we find near the Haligtree roots site of grace isn't Malenia's, but one of Millicent's siblings who has already begun her metamorphosis. "Worn by young women who set off into the world to confront their fate." -Traveler's set Smoughtown appears to have come to a similar conclusion. And I agree with his argument that Malenia's second phase title is taken too literally given the evidence stated above, though I can understand why that wouldn't be enough to convince some people. Would love to get your thoughts on the matter and (hopefully) more Millicent content!
That line at the beginning of the video could also simply be pointing to the fact that Melina has some sort of memory loss which is supported by the fact that they’re trying to find their purpose. among other things.
@@golDroger88Her having a mother and yet not being "born of a mother" do not necessarily contradict one another - Gowry is the "father" of the sisters, but had no part in their actual creation. If everyone was being born from a tree, then your "mother" would likely be the person who found and raised you, like Gowry.
Also, she might be involved with the Gloam-Eyed Queen, based on her eye in the Lord of Frenzied Flame ending looking similar to the Beast Eye, which is implied to have been torn from someone's head by Gurranq. Given that the Gloam-Eyed Queen is described as having been struck down by Malekith during the attempt to steal Destined Death (with her spawn, the Godskin Apostles, managing to seize fragments of the Rune at the site of their mother's battle against Gurranq/Maliketh, which would then be forged into the Black Knives), and the connection to the Deathroots via the Black Knife conspiracy... At the very least, Melina states that being sacrificed to the Forge of Ruin _was_ the purpose for which she was made - implying that she was tailor-made for such a strange, esoteric task.
@@theghosty99 Indeed. Millicent wasn't "born of a mother" but you would still consider Malenia her mother. Likewise Melina wasn't born of a mother but Marika is her mother.
The spell we get from Malenia suggests that she has only bloomed 2 times, and we can only obtain that spell after fighting her. So I don't think she has bloomed 3 times because she is supposed to be a proper goddess when that happens. Doesn't seem like she could have done it 3 times yet either since shes been knocked out ever since blooming on Radahn. The expkanation for the random flower seen outside of her boss room can be explained by the clothes we find next to it. It's an outfit similar to Millicents, it's another bud daughter who bloomed, just like Millicent does if you choose to fight against her at the end of her quest. So Malenia will probably return and bloom again into a full goddess of rot.
@@NoisieBastrdd She probably turns into that every time she blooms as suggested by the aeonian butterflies you can find everywhere theres scarlet rot. Their description suggests that they came from Malenias wings, meaning that her wings have appeared before. So thats more like her "goddess form" rather than her actually going from being an empyrean to a goddess in front of our eyes.
@@vergil8833 is that based on anything provided by the games? we know malenia bloomed when fighting radahan, we see a second bloom in the haligtree and she blooms for a third time during our fight. all the documentation in the game I have seen implies she will be the goddess of rot when she blooms for the third time which we know, definitively, she does in our fight. where do you get the idea that this "form" is temporary?
I've never thought about that mother line until now. What strikes me though is that even with your interpretation that she is implying herself, this line is incredibly interesting because she tells us "For my purpose, given to me by my mother inside the Erdtree, long ago." So the phrasing of the question about Boc is still very odd. I wonder if it is meant to be a meaningful contradiction. When I first played I didn't trust her at all. Then with the frenzied ending.... I'd just really love to know what she is up to.
Interesting thing I thought of when you pointed out the beam of sunlight hitting Marika in her bed chamber. It's not sunlight it's the light of the erdtree!!:)
3:30 - It provides eternal life to the people of the Lands Between, such that the main causes of death seem to have been 'warfare' and 'feeling the call of the Erdtree'. That's part of how Rennala's control over Raya Lucaria remained so tenuous even after what's implied to have been a long, _long_ time. Those who remembered when the Academy was an independent power weren't dying off from old age, and thus could keep Rennala's rule from becoming a fixed aspect of Academy culture.
3:57 - Erdtree Burial is significant because it guarantees that you will be drawn into the Erdtree and your soul will continue on. Things like the warrior jars indicate how it was far from certain that the dead would be transported to a catacomb in a timely fashion - and this delay can result in the souls of the dead detaching from their former vessels and beginning to wander. These phantoms, referred to as Those Lost in Death, can be found throughout the Lands Between - some you speak to, but souls Lost in Death are also pivotal to the magics of the Wraith Callers and the Deathrite Birds. That is what the projectiles produced by spells like Death Rancor and items like the Wraith Caller Bell are: ambient spirits drifting and Lost in Death, which are whipped up into a frenzy and then let loose on a specific target. The lantern-bearing statues which can point you toward a catacomb are there for the benefit of Those Lost in Death, lighthouses by whose light they might be guided to the Erdtree's roots. Separation from the Erdtree after death is treated as the equivalent of being condemned to Purgatory, and Those Who Live in Death are abhorred in part because, in that metaphor, they're people who have actively chosen to remain in Purgatory, away from God.
5:59 - All right, we have something here. You could absolutely interpret this as evidence for your theory. _However,_ extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This isn't really enough to convince me. For example, what if this indicates part of why the demigods were considered special, and how Godwyn and Ranni were the first to ever die? Using their blood connection to Marika, who in turn was connected to the Erdtree, they could be called forth and reborn from the Erdtree's boughs if they were killed. Perhaps part of why Godrick was considered unworthy of truly being called a member of the Golden Lineage was that he had so little of Marika/Godfrey's blood flowing through him that he _couldn't_ partake in this form of truer immortality, leaving him with but one life instead of the many that 'proper' demigods could enjoy.
Very well-made video as always, I’m increasingly impressed with your linking to historical archaeology and finding the real-world inspirations for in-game objects and scenery. One issue that I’m confused on, though: throughout the video you talk about how Melina doesn’t know about what it’s like to be born from a mother; but this seems to be ignoring one of the first lines she says in the game: “Me? I'm searching for my purpose, given to me by my mother inside the Erdtree long ago. For the reason that I yet live, burned and bodiless.” While I suppose this could be saying “my mother, inside the Erdtree” implying that her mother is the Erdtree itself, it seems like a bit of a stretch, especially with how you pointed out many voice lines and bits of lore in the game can be taken a lot more literally than they might seem. The most common theory, and the one I’d generally accepted, was that her mother is Marika herself. The line about Melina’s confusion with “being born of a mother” could very well be referring to her having a lack of a childhood/connection with her mother, both because of Marika’s duties in godhood and her own destiny. Marika has shown in several points within the game the depth of her plan and knowledge of future events yet to come (“O Radagon…thou’rt yet to become me…”), and is willing to go as far as necessary to achieve it. It’s not too far of a stretch to say that Marika *always* knew, and planned, for Melina’s role in the burning of the Erdtree, giving her that purpose “long ago”, and drilling into her that it’s the *only* reason she’s alive. Melina accepted that responsibility, as heard on the Mountaintops of the Giants in the lines: “My purpose was given to me by my mother. But now, I act of my own volition. I have set my heart upon the world that I would have. Regardless of my mother's designs.” I feel like the way Melina speaks of her mother implies far more than a general concept of “motherhood” within the tree, and “my mother’s designs” definitely seems like a clear reference to Marika’s plan in betraying the Greater Will. Just some food for thought, I’m curious to hear what you think! Also, I’d love to connect with you and talk lore if you’re down! I’ve been working pretty hard on my own ER lore series and it would be great to have someone to bounce ideas off of and share discoveries with, especially considering how knowledgeable you are about the relations to real-world architecture and history, I’m quite lacking in that department 😅 Thanks again for all the time and effort you put into these videos! Have a great rest of your week
Melina seems to be Marika's daughter, but as she is an Empyrean or something similar, she might not have been "born" in the conventional way. She might be a literal offshoot, a fragment of Marika, similar to how Radagon is, but isn't, yet is, Marika. If we assume for a moment that Radagon is the literal rune of order, then Melina might be the embodiment of the rune of death. The gloam-eyed queen that was defeated by Maliketh and locked away (therefore a bodiless apparition now). As the kindling maiden she brings death to the Erdtree, after all, even though via different means.
two thing Have you ever listen about that thing called adoption? not neccesarly Marika could be her biological mother, and instead may had rise her for the purpose of self-inmolation Other option is that Marika could use her conection with the erdtree to influence on the life that is birth from it, however I think is unlikely this one.
I suppose it is possible that Marika isn’t her biological mother, but instead raised her as a “bud” from the Erdtree like Gowry did with Millicent, I hadn’t really thought of that. I feel like it would’ve been mentioned somewhere if that were the case, but they do hide most information about Melina from us, at least for now, so it’s not totally impossible. I still think my theory is more plausible, just because it has more context supporting it, but I’ll definitely keep yours in mind too as I look into it further. Thank you!!
I feel like the depictions of people as fruit on the mausoleum doors might not necessarily be literal but a metaphor for the afterlife. The bottom part of the relief is obviously literal, but that doesn't necessarily mean the top has to be. I think an argument could be made for it being the kind of iconography depicting what happens after death or burial, souls leaving the body and going to heaven in a sense. I think there was also some interesting theories floating around relating the erdtree and the afterlife, and what would have happened once The rune of death was removed from the Elden Ring. Especially now with the DLC and theories on the land of shadow also being some form of the afterlife, either one that's part of the erdtree or one that the erdtree replaced.
. . *exhales bong hit* While we do have evidence that tree birth and reproduction can occur with only a singular individual, we also in fact seem to receive indirect evidence suggesting the opposite just by the fact that Marika needed Radagon at all. Therefore, we're forced to assume that there is a kind of "genetic" give and take from the process, perhaps involving the couple "tithing" some part of themselves and their essence in order to conceive a child "the proper Erdtree way". This, combined with the role that the Lyndell fountain baths seem to play in Erdtree birth and baptism, forces us to assume that the Erdtree's cycle of life, death, and rebirth *strongly resembles* the lifecycle of Alternian Trolls in the webcomic Homestuck. In this essay I wi *taken out by sniper*
Not sure if this is mentioned elsewhere, but it looks a lot like Malenia's rot tree is based off Parasitaxus. The only parasitic tree in existence, gaining all of its energy through a parasitic relationship with fungi. No greenery, no roots, no leaves, just a tree of gnarly brown branches with red and white buds. The directors seem to be leaving a pretty clear hint for this since the tree only grows in New Caledonia (Caelid + Aeonia, wink wink).
Regarding the "womb" in the Haligtree, I'm pretty sure that's where Miquella was located before who was kidnapped by Moug. If you look at the image of them in the opening sequence of the game, you can see that they seem to be in that same room, and that there is a massive silk cocoon in the background with an enormous hole cut into it Also, I'm not entirely convinced that the pelvic bone in the roots is an intentional design. I can see how it could be, but it just seems strangely disjointed from the rest of the humanoid in ways where it more readily comes off as just more roots than a meaningful facsimile of a body part
I am new to your channel and I'm fascinated with all the info you are connecting from real life inspirations and interpretations. Would it be possible that you makea whole video about "sacred" trees?
08:33 >Of course, this is not the only time that Marika is depicted with explicitly Christian iconography. You might want to rethink that opinion. To paraphrase norse myth: In order to learn of the runes that are used to control the worlds, Odin hangs himself from the great world tree Yggdrasil and stabs himself with his spear.
Amazing content. But I have been really looking at the drawing on top of the Erdtree, And I feel it could be the Marika's chamber or the house before it as there is character that is in this hanging chair, super suspicious, and also the Illusion of Godfrey - but I also think it could be a wagon/chariot like the ones the trolls are pulling, I know is all interpretation but I love it. can't wait till your next video.
9:50 I keep looking at her bed and thinking how uncomfortable the thing looks lol it’s essentially a slab of rock with a sheet draped over it. I guess she just likes her bedding extra firm. Haha thanks for the videos, you’re very good at em’.
The massive (16:26) vine structure depicts more similarity to the statues depicting the crucible, maybe it is this vine development that actually happen and not the crucible, the crucible is in another statue.
I think Melina's own comments are more indicative that she herself is an artificial being, not that everyone is born from the tree, otherwise there wouldn't be lineages among those that live in the Lands Between. This is drawing yet another parallel between this game and Dark Souls 2, the woman that guides you is an artificial being with a specific purpose.
Video actually doesn't say that EVERYONE is born from the tree. It says that some or most people do. Melina's statements seem to confirm both methods, as she of course mentions mothers. And it's not just her confusion about motherhood, that indeed points to her being an artificial being - the stronger arguement is more her pleading to not irreversibly destroy Erdtree with Frenzy Flame, so births can continue.
Is there possibly a connection between Melina’s misunderstanding of birth by a mother and society’s disgust of birth by a mother in Huxley’s Brave New World?
They litterally want to end the world because the of the Three Fingers shallow, nihilistic and biased philosophy. Siding with the Three Fingers is like, if someone had an easily curable cancer, but you decide to instead shoot them in the brain to "put them out of their misery". The Frenzied flame ideology is shallow, hypocritical, and depressingly nihilistic and is so obviously just propaganda made to excuse and validate the Three Fingers desire to kill everything.
@@Skibbutz it doesn’t end the world in that way, it ends in that what was isn’t but everything is “dead” it’s melted back together to what it was before. The world doesn’t have a easily curable disease. It has the most painful and agonizing disease, every moment since the Great One fractured everything has suffering and the only cure is to return to what was
@@James_Rustled the frenzied flame kills everyone, that's what it does. It will ahnilate every organic and inorganic thing and melt it all into a primordial soup until nothing else remains. Which idk about you, but that just sounds like an apocalypse to me. The idea that the world is suffering with no cure and needs to be put out of its misery is absolutely false and its nothing more than Biased nihilistic propaganda spewed by the Three Fingers to take advantage of the depressed and downtrodden. The problems the world faces are not incurable, you yourself litterally fix some of the major issues in 2 of the endings. ALL of the worlds issues are can be remedied by a simple regime change, get rid of the Golden order and that's half of the problems gone right there. The Three fingers belives that because suffering exists, everything has to die. Which is a close minded and shallow solution that ignores any form of nuance. It is to rob the world of happiness, love, joy, laughter. It's an extremist and ostensibly evil ideology
@@Skibbutz I’m glad you brought up the other endings, because they don’t change anything. Not really. All ending change small, insignificant things, and particularly the Ranni ending makes it seem like something bigger is changed but it isn’t. There is an Empyrian, a Lord, the world and it’s suffering. You change one god for another so you scrape the floor in front of someone else. But nothing really changed. Ranni’s god of stars, Goldmask’s god of order, even Mohg’s god of blood if it could take control, they do the same thing slightly differently. There is no happy ending to be found beyond, what was taken having been returned.
@@James_Rustled Rannis ending prevents the meddling of outer gods, and Fias ending ends the persecution of an oppressed people and may even deal with the godwyn situation. Also there is no change of gods in any of the endings other than Rannis, all endings still stay under the greater will. None of the In game endings fix everything obviously, but we know concretely that solutions to the suffering exist in universe. "Suffering" is an innate part of existing, there are ups and downs, it's not a perfect paradise. We as humans suffer, so do we all need to be wiped out? What even is this incurable suffering anyways? What could possibly be so bad that it's worth universal ahnilation? The Three fingers dont solve any of the problems faced in the Lands Between, all it does its kill everything. When a guy gets the flu, you dont shoot him in the head, you take him to the doctor.
I think Melina wonders what it's like to be born of a mother because she has very little memories of her past and does not directly remember her mother. It would be one thing if other characters said that line, but it was Melina, who has unique circumstances, so I don't think motherlessness is a widespread thing. Boc is exhibiting normal behavior, but she is abnormal, so she can't relate. I think the Erdtree is where all the souls come from though, be they new ones or possibly reincarnated ones from the corpses that reenter the roots. The Crucible's Greattree definitely affected how the physical body is born and develops, but Marika perhaps put a stop to that sort of mechanism, or at least limited it Then again, if Rennala's amber egg of rebirth is Erdtree sap and dewlike Erdtree sap droppings is how people are born, then her egg is basically the equivalent of stem cells... Which would explain how it can adapt life to any purpose. The Malenia-like daughters being explained as coming from the Aeonia rot tree also makes perfect sense, I could never really understand that Millicent part of the story until now. Malenia going full goddess of rot is going GODdess of rot, meaning she surpasses being just an Empyrean and becomes Marika-level, who is herself one of the few beings in Elden Ring that is deemed a flat-out god, right? Not just demi. So if you go god, you can create your own life-giving tree
Doesn't the Turtle Neck Meat kinda disproves this theory? Or at least it challenges, right? "Turtle meat is said to boost virility, but none in the Lands Between seem to have much appetite for it these days. In Lands Between, the urge to reproduce has waned long ago." People did fuck, and it did lead to babies. Maybe Melina's comment was more of a philosophical observation than a genuine question? She is supposed to be Marika's daughter, although, if Marika = Elden Ring = Erdtree, then everyone is born of Marika, but that would defeat the purpose of the distinction, right?
It isn't covered in the video, but I think that's also why the dung eater had this kind of epiphany - he knew about the connection between the erdtree and the elden ring, as well as the connection between the life giving powers of the elden ring. And if he can corrupt the elden ring, he corrupts the erdtree as well, making it easy that the birth of an omen is the new default of the erdtree. Anyway, great analysis!
It's completely off topic, so I apologise. Though I have to get off my chest how livid I get when I see people arguing that Melina is not the Gloam Eyed Queen. This is one of the most obvious facts as she's literally the only character in the entire story (visually even!) implied to have gloam eyes.
As someone who absolutely adores archeology and anthropology I really do feel as if you are a groundbreaker. I now walk the lands between with new eyes, and a mind that thinks about what it sees much slower...
I don’t know what’s more impressive- the notion that From Software is able to tell a story so deep and brimming with history and real world references OR the fact that bro was able to draw these connections, make a thesis, and post it on YT in documentary format. It’s like bro saw the game and was like “hold my beer 💪🏻”
with this in mind it does make me wonder about that one piece of info (i forget the source) that said people stopped wanting to have uh.. intimate encounters... in the lands between long ago. perhaps the erdtree overtook the need to make babies that way? amazing work as always!
It was the Network Test version of the turtle neck meat description! It suggests that people in the Lands Between used to eat turtle necks as a sexual aid until "the urge to reproduce waned."
@@Cthulhubot i agree! i wonder if that may be the reason they chose to remove it - it provoked questions that they didn't want to be so obvious perhaps? v curious
I know there isn't a clear consensus on this issue, but have you checked out Smoughtown's video about Malenia? ua-cam.com/video/kiwhiBjF2Oo/v-deo.html He presents a pretty compelling argument that Malenia has, in fact, only bloomed twice, not three times, and that the bloom found in the Haligtree outside her room is the bloom of another aeonian bud - like Millicent. Was wondering if you have any thoughts on that theory either way.
Interesting to watch this after the scenes of the shaman village and scadutree chalice in the DLC, with the grandmother being absorbed back into a tree, and the chalice serving as such a big waypoint despite its lack of gameplay importance. Perhaps marika, maybe all the shamans, were born as dew of the scadutree?
I say the Chariot/wagon as it does have the symbol circle like in the middle, that matches, and inside could be the chosen ones, or Marika's family, etc.
Now i realise that Erdtree is just like works as artifical womb in an Anime, Ergo Proxy. Which the Wombs can not function without Proxy. And every citizens that borned from that womb always infertile, that ways natural born is very rare and only can observe in “imperfect creatures” such as Bob and demi Humans! What a coencidence. In that anime also the main antagonist, the Proxy 1 clones himself to make a second one.. Also it is possible that when the proxy dies, there will be no more new citizens. Which in the anime that leads to leaders make to bring different Proxy from somewhere else, “M”onad.. To continue to live.
I wonder how this connects to something else Melina says, that the demigods are children of Marika, “one and all,” and I’m thinking about the headless ones found in the walking mausoleums, as well as possibly the player character.
Excellent gathering of info! However, there's on tidbit of info that, even though I like, I'm unsure of where it's found. The fact that Malenia had the Needle inside of her and broke it during her fight with Radahn.
holy shit that's why Ranni is an Empyrean whilst Rykard and Radahn aren't. She was the one who was birthed from the Amber EGG - born directly from the Erdtree, from Marika herself o.o
Due to recent atrocities I have been reminding myself of Tolkiens work I think there is a parallel between the Tarnished and the elves exiled from Valinor, where they had giant glowing trees and Death is a corruption of being instead of the natural cycle, which has kept individuals from proper dissolution and convergence that prevents stagnation and hollowing. Elves die of boredom and meaninglessness, spiritual illness is physical to them, being eternal spirits bound to cycle through numerous bodies like you describe with the Erdtree. Its only ever vaguely mentioned that Elves have tapered ears, but take the forms of Men in reflection of the Ainur who take the image of Humans from the vison granted to them by Eru they got when creating creation. Almost entirely fanfiction. The Nobles of the Captial all look much more Elven than Orlando Bloom with prosthetic ears.
I can’t think of a less appropriate song to put in the background of the end of this video lol. Now I gotta go back and watch Wildpie’s Dark Souls’s video.
I must be dumb but I can't visualise the birthing system with the erdtree. Where is the birthing place exactly ? Marika is giving people grace after or does she create them from the blessing directly ? Thank you if you can clarified this to me, this is gonna get me insane quite frankly, so frustrating haha.
He's just making stuff up. There's no genealogy in the erd tree. He came up with some headcanon and then made a video out of it. Same with 90 percent of other elden ring lore channels
Honestly, I still believe this even after the DLC. Did you still feel the same way about life and death in the game after the DLC? Looking forward to your new videos
I think that Marika’s bedchamber being at the top of the genealogy tree isn’t about legitimizing her but it’s rather an honest depiction of what’s going on - Marika isn’t part of the genealogy because she’s Numen, but the offspring that will come out of that bedchamber will be Empyreans born under the Erdtree and thus the first pure manifestations of the Golden Lineage
That's a perfectly legitimate interpretation.
Man thanks really, after 300hrs playing this game I was sad that most of lore videos didn't cover basically anything, leaving behind a lot of stuff that only you and few others are starting to talk about
@@minespatch Quelaag is my goto.
yeah notice how this guy does a video then vaati "coincidentally" does one on the same subject
@@bobloblaw418 I love Vaati's voice. He also does more videos that are full stories, which I like. Both are amazing creators.
Hanwkshaw is manking some fucking great lore videos too
I recommend Smoughtown, he makes great longform Elden Ring lore content
If you go looking under Stormveil near where the Tree Spirit is you can actually find a bunch of human corpses lying inside of half opened seed/fruit pods. I always wondered what the deal with those were, but now I understand. Thanks man.
I forgot about those!!! It is strange though, that there aren't any other pods like those in the Lands Between. Not any that I can remember anyway.
I always wondered if those were bodies coming *from* the pods or being stuffed into the roots, via the pods. Afterall, Godfrey's corpse was shoved into the roots of the erdtree and I do wonder if that is why the pods are located at the same location?
I always thought those were lil boats for a viking funeral kinda vibe haha. I'm a dummy
@@ShmethanI thought they were boats too 😂
is that where you fight the ulcerated tree spirit? I know the question kinda dumb but just asking for confirmation
The Elphael relief of a tree sprouting babies (11:18), which is flanked by statues of soldiers with spears, takes direct inspiration of the main facade of the Colegio de San Gregorio in Valladolid, Spain, house of the National Museum of Sculpture. In case you want to check that out!
My take would be this: the "fruits" of the Erdtree probably represent not corporeal humans, but new *souls* ready to be reincarnated.
Because of the removal of the Runa of Death, souls of the deceased can no longer freely move to the afterlife, but instead are left bound to their physical remains (as seen with the Spirit Ashes mechanic) - and the Erdtree(s) are meant to absorbs these old souls and kind of recycle them into new ones.
More than new Souls, my take is that the Erdtree fruits are either some kind of reincarnation (very unlikely) or the way beings like the Godfrey Phantom can later appear.
The big thing about the Erdtree is immortality. As long as you are part of the system of the Golden Order, you are immortal, that you want it or not.
Recycling Souls feels like you, as an individual, stop existing.
Your soul being made into a new magical entity eternally bound to the Erdtree fits perfectly on the other hand
@@Hyperversum3 neat. I presume that in the 3+ months since this comment you have become familiar with the seedbed curse and how it fully uppends your assumption that reincarnations are implausible? (being fully dependent on them, and all)
Until proven otherwise, I maintain that there is no such thing as an afterlife, in real life or the lands between. Removing the rune of death is strictly a positive action.
I wonder then, what would explain Irina and Yura reincarnating as Hyetta and Shabriri respectively
@@movezig5What a stupid take lol.
I was kind of bummed when I found out there was a lot of cut content involving hanging out with Malenia, but knowing Millicent is a certified clone of her makes me feel better about it. She may not have the street credit of her mom but, as a poor person in real life, I'm content enough to vibe with the Kmart Great Value version of the real thing.
Don't you dare ever say anything bad about my waifu Millicent ever again.
This video series is awesome!
No wonder that so many channels were not able to extract more lore from Elden Ring, as interpreting the clues given via ingame models, textures and architecture seems to require a lot of knowledge about their real-life inspirations.
Kudos to you! I hope this gets recommended to more people.
Interesting, I wonder if giving the great rune to Renalla is what "broke" the erdtree rebirth process - after all that would have been when "rebirth" was removed from the Elden Ring.
Radegon didn't give her the shard, he is after all a servant of the greater will, he would never willingly take out the most important piece of the shard, he gave her but the amber egg, the shard fell into it after the shattering.
I think what really messed things up was two different occurences:
First was when Marika plucked the Rune of Death from the Elden Ring, which fundamentally altered the relationship between death and the world
The second wrench in the machine of this process is the death of Godwyn the Golden-- or rather his half-death. Alive in physical body only, Godwyn's living-corpse infested the very roots of the Erdtree and created Those Who Live in Death, more beings who were alive in body but not in soul, and thus could not be returned to the Erdtree properly
@@hawkwood9257 Can you please explain what do you mean by fell into the Egg?
I was under the assumption this might as well be all Marika's plan, since Radagon is Marika, their duality play a role in their divergent actions, giving her the Amber Egg with the Rune of Rebirth makes sense.
Your videos are criminally-underwatched. Keep doing what you wanna do, and the viewers will find their way here ^.^
I think SmoughTown makes a pretty good argument for the bloom outside of Malenia's boss room belonging to one of Millicent's sisters, not Malenia, in his video on her and the scarlet rot. One of the best parts of the argument being that Scarlet Aeonia's description talks about her blooming for a third time in the future tense, as an event yet to occur, despite us only being able to acquire that item after fighting Malenia and watching her bloom, meaning the bloom during our fight with her couldn't be the third bloom. Furthermore, the idea of the bloom outside of Malenia's boss fight belonging to one of Millicent's sisters, who all seem to dwell in the Haligtree, rather than Malenia is supported by the fact we find the traveler's garb in front of it, the clothing Millicent and all of her sisters wear, and that the bloom is the same size as Millicent's as well, both of which are smaller than Malenia's bloom. Also, it just doesn't really make sense for Malenia to have bloomed for the first time in Caelid, then to be carried back to the Haligtree by Cleanrot Knight Finlay, only for her to randomly bloom again just outside Miquella's embedment site/her resting place for an unspecified reason, then to have just walked into, or been taken into, the next room over to finish her long nap next to the Haligtree roots. After all it took us bringing Malenia to the brink of defeat for her to bloom, I see no reason for her to randomly produce a bloom the size of one of her daughter's blooms without any known provocation, basically out of nowhere. That feels like it might have come up in one of the item descriptions about Malenia or Cleanrot Knight Finlay's tale of heroism if it happened. After all, the other two confirmed blooms were given a lot of focus.
On top of it, the tree in Caelid is more mature than any of those blossums.
my thinking is that if it was malenia's bloom in that room, it isn't her second bloom, but rather her first, with her second bloom being that with radahn. her name change during the fight to Goddess of Rot is in line with it being her third bloom, as scarlet aeonia describes her rising to being a goddess only after her third bloom. with the butterflies coming from her wings and being strongly associated with her, i think that each bloom she has is larger and has made her more powerful, similar to a caterpillar becoming a butterfly but needing multiple steps. if she was once smaller when she was younger, say, as small as the statues of her with miquella make her out to be relative to miquella, it's possible that her first bloom would be the smallest and caused by her maturing, and her second, a far more powerful time when pushed to stress by radahn, while the third is what rises her to the title of goddess during the fight with the tarnished.
@@TheEveryDayC Yet the item description talks about the third bloom in the future tense, and references that as being when she will become a true goddess. The use of the phrase true goddess, combined with the future tense used in reference to her third bloom, that the bloom outside Malenia's boss room is the same size as Millicents, but smaller than Malenia's other blooms and has a travelers set in front of it (the same clothes Millicent and her sisters wear), and that Millicent and her sisters don't become scarlet valkyries as Gowry said they would after Malenia ascended, all suggest to me that the bloom that we see is only her second one.
Melina blooms twice during her fight though. I don't know if the second one is meant to be the third in the grand scheme, but I'm inclined to think it is.
@@thehungrylittlenihilist No she doesn't, she blooms once during our fight with her. Are you talking about her using the scarlet aeonia attack?
I’m not sure how much you’ll be able to uncover about these since there aren’t many if any specific locations that pertain to them but the Death Birds (ghostflame) society and Crystalians could be cool to analyse. Crystalians are seemingly ancient and shrouded and in mystery, possibly having their own outer god too
I really hope we get more about the Crystalians in any eventual DLC. A bunch of magically adept, possibly alien mineral beings that are somehow still able to be afflicted by scarlet rot, made a pact with the sorcerers, and are awaiting the return of their mysterious creator? Every part of that is super intriguing!
Also they just seem like a fun bunch, bouncing around everywhere and playing with crystal frisbees.
Smoughtown just put out an hour long vid on that very thing. Good shit.
@@IcarusAscent But that mean we would have to fight quintet crystallian now
@@saucesriracha3763 I'd be totally fine with that, the Crystaliens are like the only Duo boss that actually functions properly
These intricacies coming to light through informed exploration by an evident expert in their subject is just delightful.
You know, it makes so much sense. What is the Erdtree? Essentially the Elden Beast. What is the Elden Beast? The Elden Ring. What is the Elden Ring made out of? Runes. What does everyone, including the player, drop when killed? Runes. We make ourselves and our weapons stronger with them. It's like even matter is made out of runes. When people die, according to one of the fundamental laws of the Golden Order, the Law of Regression, their runes join to the Elden Ring, which is the Erdtree. From it, they are then birthed anew, according to the Law of Causality, thus forming a circle of life.
Meanwhile, those special people whose runes have been influenced by either outer gods or specific aspects of the ER (Malenia and her rot, Godwyn and his deathblight due to being soulkilled with the rune of death) can also effect this cycle if they establish their influence in an area, causing life in that area to morph to their likeness due to their souls being affected by passing through their influence upon death.
Everything really does revolve around runes in the end.
Don’t take this as me contradicting you as I know little to nothing about the game. Is very interesting but hard to remember. But there’s something that is bothering me. How were things before the erdtree? Where people still transform into runes? Where did they go? Does it say anywhere in the game?
@@GeoPePeTto We don't know how life was ordered before the Erdtree, but there are some hints. We know that the Elden Ring existed before Melania became the vessel, and that it did contain the rune of death. We also know that runes are the actual manifestations of their concepts, so an Elden Ring bereft of a specific rune will exclude that concept from the greater order of the lands between and an Elden Ring containing it will include this concept. We see a previous version of the Elden Ring in the Farum Azula cathedral where we fight Maliketh. It is a much more complex pattern that, In addition to including the rune of death, also includes a lot of iconography associated with the Crucible and Hornsent cultures. We see no other Elden Ring patterns, which implies that Placidusax's vessel-god set up the previous version which lasted until Marika ascended. So, this old order incorporated concepts of death, mutation, evolution, among others. I think births occurred "naturally", producing bodies and souls. When a creature died, the soul was burned in ghostflame less it became a spirit. Mutations were common, resulting in a "blending" of forms (the omen and misbegotten are holdovers of this), and gods had a greater influence on the world.
Absolutely fantastic work! I love how many times your videos have blown open my perspective of the lore of Elden Ring.
And with such "small" details too such as tapestry and carved reliefs!
I'm someone who will just stare at these sorts of details in game but I hadn't made the connection! Fascinating!
You made me realize Malenia's needle was broken inside her body in that cutscene with Radahn, where she pierces her own shoulder
Just finished Elden Ring yesterday (and let chaos take the world) and can't wait to delve into the rich lore. This game has so much to offer and people like you enhance this unique experience even more. Great work man, looking forward to watching your videos.
In the tapestries that depict the erdtree at the 5:14, if you look really closely right under the throne, the highest branch that splits into two branches (making a kind of y shape) looks exactly like Marika's pose in her crucifixion, and Radagon's in his cutscene. There is also a knot at the center that looks exactly like a head. Interestingly, this is not present in the throne depictions of the genealogy tree. Once you see it, it jumps right out at you. She not only is at the head, but she is represented as a part of the actual tree itself.
Which makes sense, given how she's sort of one with the ER, the EB, and therefore the Erdtree itself.
I got started on your content with the schism of the two and three fingers and I must say you really bring a proper academic lens to the lore of Elden Ring. I have to wonder what about the game gave you the impression that you could apply such a serious and thorough approach to the game? Like what did you notice that made you think “Oh there’s a lot to this game worthy of a proper scholarly examination.” Because I don’t think most games would warrant this level of serious inquiry. Great work. I wish you and your channel so much success.
Thanks for a wonderful compliment.
Honestly this just blows the "From is lazy argument" with how deliberate the choice was to reuse assets. This shit is so well thought out it's bonkers. This makes me want to look at stuff with fully open eyes and not just pixels. I'm truly in awe of this game and it makes things make so much sense.
So happy to see your videos and channel blow up since the last time I was here. Absolutely the best Elden Ring content I’ve seen to date, loved all your work so far.
Thank you! You early adopters set such a cool and positive tone for this channel, so much appreciated!
@@tarnishedarchaeologists Jesse, father of king David was mentioned in the book of Enoch too?
@@tarnishedarchaeologist keep it up
i was skeptical that this video could reveal anything new but i'm quite impressed by your attention to detail and tracking down inspirations in the real world
If people can be reborn via sacred trees, then that would definitely help explain how Marika and Radagon had children while being the same person. It also explains how Millicent and her sisters were born, probably from the scarlet bloom.
Just watched all your videos and, man... You have such a keen eye for details! I'm honestly flabbergasted by the level of care fromsoft has put on this world and it's history, going as far as worry about the consistency on the ancient tablets and murals they've placed in the underground cities.
I believe most developers would just copy-paste from existing ones, but they took it a step further by really fusing the world's lore with it's architecture
I feel like Melena's question is less to show that she doesn't know about being born of a mother, but rather that she's is not born that way, hence unfamiliar with the personal effects. The fact that she asks you, kinda implies that should know, a.i. be born of a mother
When translating the original Japanese into english using google, it says, "I wonder if a mother, being born from a mother, is what everyone is like" also instead of Kindling Maiden, The Blade of Calling describes her as "The Girl of the Seed"
However I find that the translation can change drastically by removing sentences
"A dagger given to those who set out on a mission. The power of its ancient owner, the Girl of the Flame, remains in this sword.
Those who walk with the flame will one day see their fateful death."
It seems that translation becomes much closer to the official when the sentences are curated
Thank you for breaking down what every other lore guy is afraid of, you're amazing!!
I’m baffled by your ability to pick up on the most subtle of clues. Tbh, I think your videos are the closest any of us are going to get to understanding Elden Ring. I’ve watched hundreds of lore videos and none are as thorough as these. Thank you
Have people pointed out Marika's hanging pose is as close to a uterus with fallopian tubes as the human body can get?
Great video, as always! :) I'm of the conclusion that Melina is similar to Millicent as being born from an event and being part of Malenia but instead being part of Marika and perhaps it's the shattering that made her.
Fantastic video as always. Not many people look at souls games the way you do and it's great to have another out there! Concerning the Tree of Jesse, it's interesting that there may be a potential illegitimacy within the royal line (Perhaps this is where the "secret" of Radagon fits in?), as one of the main criticisms of early Christianity through the eyes of Judaism was that the geneology just did not fit. For example, only two gospels out of the four use Geneology's, and one of them (iirc it is Matthew, not 100% sure) actually uses head-scratchingly incorrect geneological steps. It skips entire generations, and often-times outright uses made-up or nonsensical names that can be directly refuted by looking at multiple Hebrew sources that show the actual descendants of King David. It is true that Joseph, father of Jesus is indeed a descendant of David; which is required in order for Jesus to fit the prophecy of the Moshiach (Messiah), but it is often criticized as being "tacked on" in order to give credibility to Jesus as the only Messianic candidate; since if Jesus is not "really" JOSEPH'S son but GOD's son the whole story falls apart. If he is God's son then he can not be the messiah as Mary isn't descended of David and Jesse. If he is Joseph's son then he may be Messiah but can't be "son of god". Thus the early church or the gospel writers themselves may have hastily added in incorrect geneologies to cover this semi-obvious hole.
Further to that matter, the timeline of the gospels shows that only the later gospels dated to nearly 100 years after Jesus, even bring up Joseph as even EXISTING! There is a fair amount of doubt among hebrew speaking scholars that Joseph himself may be a later addition to connect Jesus to the Messianic line of David. This is where the relatively well known conspiracy of Jesus being actually born of a Roman soldier named "Pantera" can potentially be corroborated as there is a line in the ancient Talmudic writings stating that there was a "heretic" among Judaism known as "Yeshu ben Pantera". (Joshua son of Pantera. Jesus is a Latin translation of a greek "Iesous" which is translated from Yeshua in hebrew meaning Joshua, Jesus' original name). Most Rabbi's will deny this, however it is often believed that this is in response to many Jews and holy Jewish texts being burned en-mass for centuries on claims that the Talmud and Jews were "evil" for blaspheming against god by mentioning ill things about Jesus. So it's likely that Rabbi's even today would be Exceedingly shy about revealing these lines to actually have been truly referencing Jesus and not other figures such as "Yeshu the sorcerer" who was accused of practicing egyptian magic 100 years before christ.
Very informative and well written. It's amazing how so many religions always tend to spring up from amalgamations of various poorly attested stories all tied together by people retelling older tales and events to fit their narratives and feelings on society and its direction, especially christianity itself coming from very vague and sometimes contradictory texts. Not trying to disprove anyone's beliefs or anything, just saying that none of us were there and everything was based off of "I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy". The game of telephone really comes to mind.
I think the part how Jesus = Joshua is really interesting. If you look at Vlad the Impaler and what pop culture has done with the character then apply that to Yeshu the sorcerer and you can really see how Jesus' myth really was broad. Also if Yeshu became something like a popular belief like Merlin in England you could have stories built up for centuries now being attributes to this one guy until the church picks him up as their mascot, chop out any blasphemous pagan witchcraft qnd a quick correction to his name and BOOM. Almighty Jesus, son of God is born.
Just came across your channel (from a recommendation by Smoughtown) and wow, I absolutely love your detailed analysis with real-world references. Really nice work, and fascinating videos!
Outstanding, as I've come to expect from each of your videos!
I love how you pointed out how "literal" the erdtree's function in this process, as the game is filled with ideas being taken literally.
remember when before the game's release, and people speculated on the "two fingers", thinking of them like a group of people potentially, like an organisation?
nope, straight up. 2 fingers
When old albus says that his legs are fading, I bet many took it as "aw, his legs are giving out 😔", but no, if you're able to look at them, they're literally fading.
then we have a case of (spoiler free) a character commiting the most literal form of genderfluid one could have.
Rahdan literally frozen the stars of the sky
The members of Sol who tried to make an eclipse occur for Miquella literally tried to swallow the Sun, explaining why it's so relatively small compared to the large moons.
I gotta wonder what all this literal forces in the Lands Between mean? or is it simply a reference to how alot of tales from around the Gaelic area have pretty weird stories that sound more like events that occured rather than stories with messages or meanings (this part is made with alot of lack of knowledge, so I do acknowledge that it's my weakest point here)
most literal form of genderfluid?
@@lorddervish212quinterosara6
I mean, the (spoiler free) character literally trans' their gender right infront of you before you fight them. Can't really think of taking being technically genderfluid in a more literal way
@@OrchinX Good luck, I don't think you're going to dissuade the notion of 'muh genderfluidity' when the only reason it's been slapped ontop like a cheap veneer here is because ideological proponents read their identity into every medium.
@@OrchinX doesn’t Marika literally TRANSform into radagon when you enter the erdtree in the cutscene before you fight him…?
@@GutsmanLoL yes, but the guy above doesn't like the woke stuff, so he lies to himself about things in the game being much deeper than they actually are.
It's almost sad to read 😆
Wow. Haven’t heard any of this theory anywhere else yet. Very cool!
I love this concept, your video has reshaped the way I see this game aaah it's so exciting!
With that in mind it now makes sense that Marika and Radagon could have children even though they already merged into one being.
Love the video! I figured that Millicent and her sisters were products of botanical gestation, but I hadn't considered that to be the rule of the world rather than the exception.
The only major issue I can think of is when you reference Malenia's blooming in our battle with her being her third. I used to think this as well (possibly triggered while dueling her former master, whose blade we can procure near Ordina, Liturgical Town) until three factors were brought to my attention (SPOILERS AHEAD):
1: Should you choose to betray Millicent (first of all, how dare you), she too blooms into a Scarlet Aeonia. Gowry makes references to her blooming as a part of the process of becoming a Scarlet Valkyrie.
2: After Malenia blooms in our fight with her, she is unclothed (prosthetics excluded) during the second phase. Her bloom might be more powerful than Millicent's, or this could be a typical occurrence for this blooming process.
3: at the foot of this bloom we can procure the Trveler's Set. The set that's worn not only by Millicent, but by all her sisters that we meet as well (and Melina, for some reason).
All this makes me believe that the bloom we find near the Haligtree roots site of grace isn't Malenia's, but one of Millicent's siblings who has already begun her metamorphosis.
"Worn by young women who set off into the world to confront their fate."
-Traveler's set
Smoughtown appears to have come to a similar conclusion. And I agree with his argument that Malenia's second phase title is taken too literally given the evidence stated above, though I can understand why that wouldn't be enough to convince some people.
Would love to get your thoughts on the matter and (hopefully) more Millicent content!
Don't let the song in this clip made you down from watching the clip, it's very informative and unique find from other lore sayers. thumb up!
Excellent video and channel, subscribed! 👍🏾
That line at the beginning of the video could also simply be pointing to the fact that Melina has some sort of memory loss which is supported by the fact that they’re trying to find their purpose. among other things.
She also clearly states that her mother gave her her purpose. He didn't address this either.
@@golDroger88Her having a mother and yet not being "born of a mother" do not necessarily contradict one another - Gowry is the "father" of the sisters, but had no part in their actual creation. If everyone was being born from a tree, then your "mother" would likely be the person who found and raised you, like Gowry.
Also, she might be involved with the Gloam-Eyed Queen, based on her eye in the Lord of Frenzied Flame ending looking similar to the Beast Eye, which is implied to have been torn from someone's head by Gurranq. Given that the Gloam-Eyed Queen is described as having been struck down by Malekith during the attempt to steal Destined Death (with her spawn, the Godskin Apostles, managing to seize fragments of the Rune at the site of their mother's battle against Gurranq/Maliketh, which would then be forged into the Black Knives), and the connection to the Deathroots via the Black Knife conspiracy...
At the very least, Melina states that being sacrificed to the Forge of Ruin _was_ the purpose for which she was made - implying that she was tailor-made for such a strange, esoteric task.
@@dand1253 shadows have purple eyes.
@@theghosty99 Indeed. Millicent wasn't "born of a mother" but you would still consider Malenia her mother. Likewise Melina wasn't born of a mother but Marika is her mother.
The spell we get from Malenia suggests that she has only bloomed 2 times, and we can only obtain that spell after fighting her. So I don't think she has bloomed 3 times because she is supposed to be a proper goddess when that happens. Doesn't seem like she could have done it 3 times yet either since shes been knocked out ever since blooming on Radahn.
The expkanation for the random flower seen outside of her boss room can be explained by the clothes we find next to it. It's an outfit similar to Millicents, it's another bud daughter who bloomed, just like Millicent does if you choose to fight against her at the end of her quest.
So Malenia will probably return and bloom again into a full goddess of rot.
but Malenia turns into a Goddess of rot when she blooms in front of you, like, it says it in the name of her health bar
@@NoisieBastrdd She probably turns into that every time she blooms as suggested by the aeonian butterflies you can find everywhere theres scarlet rot. Their description suggests that they came from Malenias wings, meaning that her wings have appeared before. So thats more like her "goddess form" rather than her actually going from being an empyrean to a goddess in front of our eyes.
@@vergil8833 I'm struggling to find the distinction between "goddess form" and being a goddess. what do you mean by that?
@@hellboy6536 One is temporary and the other is permamanet.
@@vergil8833 is that based on anything provided by the games? we know malenia bloomed when fighting radahan, we see a second bloom in the haligtree and she blooms for a third time during our fight. all the documentation in the game I have seen implies she will be the goddess of rot when she blooms for the third time which we know, definitively, she does in our fight. where do you get the idea that this "form" is temporary?
Your content is absolutely mind blowing dude. Great work
I've never thought about that mother line until now. What strikes me though is that even with your interpretation that she is implying herself, this line is incredibly interesting because she tells us "For my purpose, given to me by my mother inside the Erdtree, long ago." So the phrasing of the question about Boc is still very odd. I wonder if it is meant to be a meaningful contradiction. When I first played I didn't trust her at all. Then with the frenzied ending.... I'd just really love to know what she is up to.
I really like your intros. And everything else about you videos. Keep the good work up.
0:24 I have one of those plants. it only blooms at night.
Interesting thing I thought of when you pointed out the beam of sunlight hitting Marika in her bed chamber. It's not sunlight it's the light of the erdtree!!:)
Sooo many hidden gems. Loving your content bruh 🙏🏾🙌🏿 hope you get to 1mil subs soon
Holy best elden ring videos on UA-cam! I just found you today.
Being a history/mythology nerd etc I love this channel .
3:30 - It provides eternal life to the people of the Lands Between, such that the main causes of death seem to have been 'warfare' and 'feeling the call of the Erdtree'. That's part of how Rennala's control over Raya Lucaria remained so tenuous even after what's implied to have been a long, _long_ time. Those who remembered when the Academy was an independent power weren't dying off from old age, and thus could keep Rennala's rule from becoming a fixed aspect of Academy culture.
3:57 - Erdtree Burial is significant because it guarantees that you will be drawn into the Erdtree and your soul will continue on. Things like the warrior jars indicate how it was far from certain that the dead would be transported to a catacomb in a timely fashion - and this delay can result in the souls of the dead detaching from their former vessels and beginning to wander. These phantoms, referred to as Those Lost in Death, can be found throughout the Lands Between - some you speak to, but souls Lost in Death are also pivotal to the magics of the Wraith Callers and the Deathrite Birds. That is what the projectiles produced by spells like Death Rancor and items like the Wraith Caller Bell are: ambient spirits drifting and Lost in Death, which are whipped up into a frenzy and then let loose on a specific target.
The lantern-bearing statues which can point you toward a catacomb are there for the benefit of Those Lost in Death, lighthouses by whose light they might be guided to the Erdtree's roots.
Separation from the Erdtree after death is treated as the equivalent of being condemned to Purgatory, and Those Who Live in Death are abhorred in part because, in that metaphor, they're people who have actively chosen to remain in Purgatory, away from God.
5:59 - All right, we have something here. You could absolutely interpret this as evidence for your theory. _However,_ extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This isn't really enough to convince me.
For example, what if this indicates part of why the demigods were considered special, and how Godwyn and Ranni were the first to ever die? Using their blood connection to Marika, who in turn was connected to the Erdtree, they could be called forth and reborn from the Erdtree's boughs if they were killed. Perhaps part of why Godrick was considered unworthy of truly being called a member of the Golden Lineage was that he had so little of Marika/Godfrey's blood flowing through him that he _couldn't_ partake in this form of truer immortality, leaving him with but one life instead of the many that 'proper' demigods could enjoy.
Very well-made video as always, I’m increasingly impressed with your linking to historical archaeology and finding the real-world inspirations for in-game objects and scenery.
One issue that I’m confused on, though: throughout the video you talk about how Melina doesn’t know about what it’s like to be born from a mother; but this seems to be ignoring one of the first lines she says in the game: “Me? I'm searching for my purpose, given to me by my mother inside the Erdtree long ago. For the reason that I yet live, burned and bodiless.”
While I suppose this could be saying “my mother, inside the Erdtree” implying that her mother is the Erdtree itself, it seems like a bit of a stretch, especially with how you pointed out many voice lines and bits of lore in the game can be taken a lot more literally than they might seem.
The most common theory, and the one I’d generally accepted, was that her mother is Marika herself. The line about Melina’s confusion with “being born of a mother” could very well be referring to her having a lack of a childhood/connection with her mother, both because of Marika’s duties in godhood and her own destiny.
Marika has shown in several points within the game the depth of her plan and knowledge of future events yet to come (“O Radagon…thou’rt yet to become me…”), and is willing to go as far as necessary to achieve it. It’s not too far of a stretch to say that Marika *always* knew, and planned, for Melina’s role in the burning of the Erdtree, giving her that purpose “long ago”, and drilling into her that it’s the *only* reason she’s alive.
Melina accepted that responsibility, as heard on the Mountaintops of the Giants in the lines: “My purpose was given to me by my mother. But now, I act of my own volition. I have set my heart upon the world that I would have. Regardless of my mother's designs.”
I feel like the way Melina speaks of her mother implies far more than a general concept of “motherhood” within the tree, and “my mother’s designs” definitely seems like a clear reference to Marika’s plan in betraying the Greater Will.
Just some food for thought, I’m curious to hear what you think! Also, I’d love to connect with you and talk lore if you’re down! I’ve been working pretty hard on my own ER lore series and it would be great to have someone to bounce ideas off of and share discoveries with, especially considering how knowledgeable you are about the relations to real-world architecture and history, I’m quite lacking in that department 😅
Thanks again for all the time and effort you put into these videos! Have a great rest of your week
Melina seems to be Marika's daughter, but as she is an Empyrean or something similar, she might not have been "born" in the conventional way. She might be a literal offshoot, a fragment of Marika, similar to how Radagon is, but isn't, yet is, Marika.
If we assume for a moment that Radagon is the literal rune of order, then Melina might be the embodiment of the rune of death. The gloam-eyed queen that was defeated by Maliketh and locked away (therefore a bodiless apparition now). As the kindling maiden she brings death to the Erdtree, after all, even though via different means.
two thing
Have you ever listen about that thing called adoption?
not neccesarly Marika could be her biological mother, and instead may had rise her for the purpose of self-inmolation
Other option is that Marika could use her conection with the erdtree to influence on the life that is birth from it, however I think is unlikely this one.
I suppose it is possible that Marika isn’t her biological mother, but instead raised her as a “bud” from the Erdtree like Gowry did with Millicent, I hadn’t really thought of that. I feel like it would’ve been mentioned somewhere if that were the case, but they do hide most information about Melina from us, at least for now, so it’s not totally impossible.
I still think my theory is more plausible, just because it has more context supporting it, but I’ll definitely keep yours in mind too as I look into it further. Thank you!!
I feel like the depictions of people as fruit on the mausoleum doors might not necessarily be literal but a metaphor for the afterlife.
The bottom part of the relief is obviously literal, but that doesn't necessarily mean the top has to be. I think an argument could be made for it being the kind of iconography depicting what happens after death or burial, souls leaving the body and going to heaven in a sense.
I think there was also some interesting theories floating around relating the erdtree and the afterlife, and what would have happened once The rune of death was removed from the Elden Ring. Especially now with the DLC and theories on the land of shadow also being some form of the afterlife, either one that's part of the erdtree or one that the erdtree replaced.
.
.
*exhales bong hit*
While we do have evidence that tree birth and reproduction can occur with only a singular individual, we also in fact seem to receive indirect evidence suggesting the opposite just by the fact that Marika needed Radagon at all. Therefore, we're forced to assume that there is a kind of "genetic" give and take from the process, perhaps involving the couple "tithing" some part of themselves and their essence in order to conceive a child "the proper Erdtree way". This, combined with the role that the Lyndell fountain baths seem to play in Erdtree birth and baptism, forces us to assume that the Erdtree's cycle of life, death, and rebirth *strongly resembles* the lifecycle of Alternian Trolls in the webcomic Homestuck. In this essay I wi
*taken out by sniper*
I'm upset that this explanation works
Not sure if this is mentioned elsewhere, but it looks a lot like Malenia's rot tree is based off Parasitaxus. The only parasitic tree in existence, gaining all of its energy through a parasitic relationship with fungi. No greenery, no roots, no leaves, just a tree of gnarly brown branches with red and white buds. The directors seem to be leaving a pretty clear hint for this since the tree only grows in New Caledonia (Caelid + Aeonia, wink wink).
Regarding the "womb" in the Haligtree, I'm pretty sure that's where Miquella was located before who was kidnapped by Moug. If you look at the image of them in the opening sequence of the game, you can see that they seem to be in that same room, and that there is a massive silk cocoon in the background with an enormous hole cut into it
Also, I'm not entirely convinced that the pelvic bone in the roots is an intentional design. I can see how it could be, but it just seems strangely disjointed from the rest of the humanoid in ways where it more readily comes off as just more roots than a meaningful facsimile of a body part
Great stuff man! I appreciate the perspective of all of your research you do for your videos. Keep it up!
I just discovered your channel and I can’t get enough. Keep it up
I am new to your channel and I'm fascinated with all the info you are connecting from real life inspirations and interpretations. Would it be possible that you makea whole video about "sacred" trees?
08:33 >Of course, this is not the only time that Marika is depicted with explicitly Christian iconography.
You might want to rethink that opinion.
To paraphrase norse myth: In order to learn of the runes that are used to control the worlds, Odin hangs himself from the great world tree Yggdrasil and stabs himself with his spear.
Amazing content. But I have been really looking at the drawing on top of the Erdtree, And I feel it could be the Marika's chamber or the house before it as there is character that is in this hanging chair, super suspicious, and also the Illusion of Godfrey - but I also think it could be a wagon/chariot like the ones the trolls are pulling, I know is all interpretation but I love it. can't wait till your next video.
9:50 I keep looking at her bed and thinking how uncomfortable the thing looks lol it’s essentially a slab of rock with a sheet draped over it. I guess she just likes her bedding extra firm. Haha thanks for the videos, you’re very good at em’.
this is the best deep deep lore channel on Elden
The massive (16:26) vine structure depicts more similarity to the statues depicting the crucible, maybe it is this vine development that actually happen and not the crucible, the crucible is in another statue.
Keep up the great work Mr. Archaeologist!
I think Melina's own comments are more indicative that she herself is an artificial being, not that everyone is born from the tree, otherwise there wouldn't be lineages among those that live in the Lands Between. This is drawing yet another parallel between this game and Dark Souls 2, the woman that guides you is an artificial being with a specific purpose.
Video actually doesn't say that EVERYONE is born from the tree. It says that some or most people do. Melina's statements seem to confirm both methods, as she of course mentions mothers. And it's not just her confusion about motherhood, that indeed points to her being an artificial being - the stronger arguement is more her pleading to not irreversibly destroy Erdtree with Frenzy Flame, so births can continue.
Is there possibly a connection between Melina’s misunderstanding of birth by a mother and society’s disgust of birth by a mother in Huxley’s Brave New World?
“No more fracture… no more births” everyday I’m more convinced shabriri and hyetta are the only good ones
They litterally want to end the world because the of the Three Fingers shallow, nihilistic and biased philosophy.
Siding with the Three Fingers is like, if someone had an easily curable cancer, but you decide to instead shoot them in the brain to "put them out of their misery".
The Frenzied flame ideology is shallow, hypocritical, and depressingly nihilistic and is so obviously just propaganda made to excuse and validate the Three Fingers desire to kill everything.
@@Skibbutz it doesn’t end the world in that way, it ends in that what was isn’t but everything is “dead” it’s melted back together to what it was before.
The world doesn’t have a easily curable disease. It has the most painful and agonizing disease, every moment since the Great One fractured everything has suffering and the only cure is to return to what was
@@James_Rustled the frenzied flame kills everyone, that's what it does. It will ahnilate every organic and inorganic thing and melt it all into a primordial soup until nothing else remains. Which idk about you, but that just sounds like an apocalypse to me.
The idea that the world is suffering with no cure and needs to be put out of its misery is absolutely false and its nothing more than Biased nihilistic propaganda spewed by the Three Fingers to take advantage of the depressed and downtrodden.
The problems the world faces are not incurable, you yourself litterally fix some of the major issues in 2 of the endings.
ALL of the worlds issues are can be remedied by a simple regime change, get rid of the Golden order and that's half of the problems gone right there.
The Three fingers belives that because suffering exists, everything has to die. Which is a close minded and shallow solution that ignores any form of nuance. It is to rob the world of happiness, love, joy, laughter.
It's an extremist and ostensibly evil ideology
@@Skibbutz I’m glad you brought up the other endings, because they don’t change anything. Not really. All ending change small, insignificant things, and particularly the Ranni ending makes it seem like something bigger is changed but it isn’t.
There is an Empyrian, a Lord, the world and it’s suffering. You change one god for another so you scrape the floor in front of someone else. But nothing really changed. Ranni’s god of stars, Goldmask’s god of order, even Mohg’s god of blood if it could take control, they do the same thing slightly differently. There is no happy ending to be found beyond, what was taken having been returned.
@@James_Rustled Rannis ending prevents the meddling of outer gods, and Fias ending ends the persecution of an oppressed people and may even deal with the godwyn situation.
Also there is no change of gods in any of the endings other than Rannis, all endings still stay under the greater will.
None of the In game endings fix everything obviously, but we know concretely that solutions to the suffering exist in universe.
"Suffering" is an innate part of existing, there are ups and downs, it's not a perfect paradise. We as humans suffer, so do we all need to be wiped out?
What even is this incurable suffering anyways? What could possibly be so bad that it's worth universal ahnilation?
The Three fingers dont solve any of the problems faced in the Lands Between, all it does its kill everything.
When a guy gets the flu, you dont shoot him in the head, you take him to the doctor.
I think Melina wonders what it's like to be born of a mother because she has very little memories of her past and does not directly remember her mother. It would be one thing if other characters said that line, but it was Melina, who has unique circumstances, so I don't think motherlessness is a widespread thing. Boc is exhibiting normal behavior, but she is abnormal, so she can't relate. I think the Erdtree is where all the souls come from though, be they new ones or possibly reincarnated ones from the corpses that reenter the roots. The Crucible's Greattree definitely affected how the physical body is born and develops, but Marika perhaps put a stop to that sort of mechanism, or at least limited it
Then again, if Rennala's amber egg of rebirth is Erdtree sap and dewlike Erdtree sap droppings is how people are born, then her egg is basically the equivalent of stem cells... Which would explain how it can adapt life to any purpose. The Malenia-like daughters being explained as coming from the Aeonia rot tree also makes perfect sense, I could never really understand that Millicent part of the story until now. Malenia going full goddess of rot is going GODdess of rot, meaning she surpasses being just an Empyrean and becomes Marika-level, who is herself one of the few beings in Elden Ring that is deemed a flat-out god, right? Not just demi. So if you go god, you can create your own life-giving tree
What i find interesting about this is that its something everyone in universe would know but to us it seems one of the most obscure pieces of lore
Doesn't the Turtle Neck Meat kinda disproves this theory? Or at least it challenges, right?
"Turtle meat is said to boost virility, but none in the Lands Between seem to have much appetite for it these days.
In Lands Between, the urge to reproduce has waned long ago."
People did fuck, and it did lead to babies. Maybe Melina's comment was more of a philosophical observation than a genuine question? She is supposed to be Marika's daughter, although, if Marika = Elden Ring = Erdtree, then everyone is born of Marika, but that would defeat the purpose of the distinction, right?
この動画とコメント欄はエルデンリングのコンセプト元になってるであろう神話や宗教や科学的な事象を学べるから好き。コンセプト元の実在する建築物はいつか自分の目で見に行きたいな
On the Genealogy Tree there are 8 people fruits. While Marika and Radagon had a total of 8 demigod children.
Good eye!
It isn't covered in the video, but I think that's also why the dung eater had this kind of epiphany - he knew about the connection between the erdtree and the elden ring, as well as the connection between the life giving powers of the elden ring. And if he can corrupt the elden ring, he corrupts the erdtree as well, making it easy that the birth of an omen is the new default of the erdtree. Anyway, great analysis!
It's completely off topic, so I apologise. Though I have to get off my chest how livid I get when I see people arguing that Melina is not the Gloam Eyed Queen. This is one of the most obvious facts as she's literally the only character in the entire story (visually even!) implied to have gloam eyes.
you can just learn so so much more from your videos than lore youtubers, your knowledge of history makes history buffs jealous
As someone who absolutely adores archeology and anthropology I really do feel as if you are a groundbreaker. I now walk the lands between with new eyes, and a mind that thinks about what it sees much slower...
I don’t know what’s more impressive- the notion that From Software is able to tell a story so deep and brimming with history and real world references OR the fact that bro was able to draw these connections, make a thesis, and post it on YT in documentary format. It’s like bro saw the game and was like “hold my beer 💪🏻”
with this in mind it does make me wonder about that one piece of info (i forget the source) that said people stopped wanting to have uh.. intimate encounters... in the lands between long ago. perhaps the erdtree overtook the need to make babies that way? amazing work as always!
It was the Network Test version of the turtle neck meat description! It suggests that people in the Lands Between used to eat turtle necks as a sexual aid until "the urge to reproduce waned."
@@Cthulhubot ty for the source, i knew i wasn't crazy !! i think it stayed with me bc it's not really alluded to anywhere else in the game
@@hoarahbabylon No problem! It's a shame they removed it from the final game, it's a fascinating world-building choice.
@@Cthulhubot i agree! i wonder if that may be the reason they chose to remove it - it provoked questions that they didn't want to be so obvious perhaps? v curious
This makes a lot of sense. Tbh now the story of ER seems so much more clearer.
I know there isn't a clear consensus on this issue, but have you checked out Smoughtown's video about Malenia? ua-cam.com/video/kiwhiBjF2Oo/v-deo.html He presents a pretty compelling argument that Malenia has, in fact, only bloomed twice, not three times, and that the bloom found in the Haligtree outside her room is the bloom of another aeonian bud - like Millicent. Was wondering if you have any thoughts on that theory either way.
Interesting to watch this after the scenes of the shaman village and scadutree chalice in the DLC, with the grandmother being absorbed back into a tree, and the chalice serving as such a big waypoint despite its lack of gameplay importance. Perhaps marika, maybe all the shamans, were born as dew of the scadutree?
Amazing video! I must say the ending music was an odd choice
Excellent video ! keep up the good work !
I say the Chariot/wagon as it does have the symbol circle like in the middle, that matches, and inside could be the chosen ones, or Marika's family, etc.
Grafting makes so much more sense in this context.
Digging up the wildpie101 music, now that is an archaeological move.
Now i realise that Erdtree is just like works as artifical womb in an Anime, Ergo Proxy. Which the Wombs can not function without Proxy.
And every citizens that borned from that womb always infertile, that ways natural born is very rare and only can observe in “imperfect creatures” such as Bob and demi Humans! What a coencidence.
In that anime also the main antagonist, the Proxy 1 clones himself to make a second one..
Also it is possible that when the proxy dies, there will be no more new citizens. Which in the anime that leads to leaders make to bring different Proxy from somewhere else, “M”onad.. To continue to live.
19:12 when the Dumbshit's Guide To Dark Souls kicks in
I wonder how this connects to something else Melina says, that the demigods are children of Marika, “one and all,” and I’m thinking about the headless ones found in the walking mausoleums, as well as possibly the player character.
For more evidence that she is a bud, when you look at the needle description , it states that there is no blood, but there is dew.
"We destined to be mothers, now we're tarnished," the song of lament, sing by the bats. Now i understand what they meant.
Compelling theory, I just wish we had in-game first-hand evidence of erdtree births, not just burial.
Excellent gathering of info! However, there's on tidbit of info that, even though I like, I'm unsure of where it's found. The fact that Malenia had the Needle inside of her and broke it during her fight with Radahn.
holy shit that's why Ranni is an Empyrean whilst Rykard and Radahn aren't. She was the one who was birthed from the Amber EGG - born directly from the Erdtree, from Marika herself o.o
What if the bloom outside her arena was the one she bloomed in Caelid instead of being one of milicent's sisters? Seems like a cool idea
Due to recent atrocities I have been reminding myself of Tolkiens work
I think there is a parallel between the Tarnished and the elves exiled from Valinor, where they had giant glowing trees and Death is a corruption of being instead of the natural cycle, which has kept individuals from proper dissolution and convergence that prevents stagnation and hollowing. Elves die of boredom and meaninglessness, spiritual illness is physical to them, being eternal spirits bound to cycle through numerous bodies like you describe with the Erdtree.
Its only ever vaguely mentioned that Elves have tapered ears, but take the forms of Men in reflection of the Ainur who take the image of Humans from the vison granted to them by Eru they got when creating creation. Almost entirely fanfiction. The Nobles of the Captial all look much more Elven than Orlando Bloom with prosthetic ears.
I can’t think of a less appropriate song to put in the background of the end of this video lol.
Now I gotta go back and watch Wildpie’s Dark Souls’s video.
I must be dumb but I can't visualise the birthing system with the erdtree. Where is the birthing place exactly ? Marika is giving people grace after or does she create them from the blessing directly ? Thank you if you can clarified this to me, this is gonna get me insane quite frankly, so frustrating haha.
He's just making stuff up. There's no genealogy in the erd tree. He came up with some headcanon and then made a video out of it. Same with 90 percent of other elden ring lore channels
"resorbed" is my new favourite word
Fuckin blowing my mind here. My jaw actually dropped to hear the bit about millicent Litterally being a bud that came from the scarlet rot tree
Honestly, I still believe this even after the DLC. Did you still feel the same way about life and death in the game after the DLC? Looking forward to your new videos