We built a Full Metal Voron!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 12 жов 2023
- We built a Full Metal Voron out of 'El Dio' our LDO Voron 2.4 R2.
Using the Tool-less idlers, tap kit and parts kit from ChaoticLab we built an awesome Full Metal Voron! Huge thanks to ChaoticLab for making this possible!
CNC Parts Kit - chaoticlab.xyz/collections/al...
CNC Voron Tap - chaoticlab.xyz/collections/al...
CNC Tool-free XY Tensioners - chaoticlab.xyz/collections/al...
CNC Tool-Free Z-Axis Tensioner - chaoticlab.xyz/collections/al...
Music
We Shop Song by Ludwig & Schlatts Musical Emporium
/ @ludandschlattsmusical... - Наука та технологія
Dang, super nice. I wouldn't be able to justify all the work to re-do a working machine but I'm glad to see you did it :)
I was waiting for centuries for a yt video like this. I really enjoyed watching the video!!. Well done!!
I am jealous, I dream of a voron. The metal parts look very well machined.
Iv'e wanted a Voron forever since I followed the project back when it was v1 on reddit. but w/ my bambu labs I don't need to do anything to get it to print good, so it's a tough sale now to build one when they're more expensive, and a nightmare to wire. but they look great I will say that.
Absolutely awesome!
Glad you like it!
My 2.4 is all metal. I love it.
Looks great!
Thanks!
I’m definitely going to order metal parts for my next build.
i love the fact 40-50% of the printer is printed parts, but ive also noticed layer splitting on quite a bit, hope more companies start doing this and the prices go down so i can make my voron 0.2 all metal.
It’s not recommended due to the cost. But yea. I plan on building a second 0.2 using the cnc parts at some point.
I would be really curious to see the input shaping plot on this machine. Also curious to see how fast this machine can go while retaining print quality
Yes not only you want to see that. I was told I shouldnt build it because of bad resonance frequency. So thats why I would love to know more about it.
What are the benefits and disadvantages of using metal parts like that? Im guessing it would slow down effective printing speed since the toolhead is heavier, but would it help with strength and long lasting parts?
those belt tensioners seem to work great!
Yes they do!
Sweet build. I'm working on something similar now.
Where did you get the cable gland? What size did you use and what diameter steel wire?
I’m taking my 2.4 all the way down (for awhile now) and strongly considering this just can’t spring for it presently
Thank you for the video!!!
I was thinking of this metall kit too. I read, that ABS/ASA parts should used to have some flex in the gantry. What do you thonk about it? Second question about loosening screws. Didyou have this problem on the metall kit? On printed parts i must tighten them every ~300 hours.
I'm not sure... I think maybe that claim is overstated. it's not so much that a V2 *needs* to flex. just that it *can* flex, but if your gantry stays mostly where it's supposed to be, then it's not going to flex. as for the loose screws. In my experience with printed parts, they usually have to have 1 round of tightening after 100 hours or so, but after that they stay tight. The metal ones didn't do that for us, they stayed tight from the start.
Very nice video, thank you! I was a bit disappointed at „IS graphs are the same and we‘re at same speeds and acceleration as before“. Hmm actually a cosmetic update only?
Thanks!
A more accurate way to put it is that 'We didn't push it.. yet...' This printer only has a revo in it that is pretty easy to over-run even at tame speeds. We've got a rapido on the way though and let's just say.. have some plans!
What sort of print speeds and accelerations can you achieve? I assume with klipper and input shaper? I have a Siboor 0.2 kit coming Tuesday, looking to build that first for functional print parts. I keep thinking a voron 2.5 or 3.0 is coming soon.. in particular with all the multi head printers (or AMS type systems), faster print speeds.. I keep thinking voron is due for an updated 4 to 8 head system with 600 to 1000mm/s print speeds. I say that based on the soon to come out (on kickstarter now) ProForge 4 with 4 heads and supposed 800mm/s print speeds and large print size, and all the 600 to 1000mm/s printers from various folks now. Just feels like a voron update has to be coming soon to account for multi head options and faster print speeds. I did see a few modified vorons that have mutli heads too, so just hoping some sort of option is coming, unless the ProForge 4 turns out good enough given it looks very similar to a voron, 4 z axis, etc.
as far as I know, the only new Voron in the works is V24 (the 24" x 24" one) so I wouldn't worry about that too much. The Voron team generally doesn't try to 'keep up' or compete with the consumer market in that way. They design the things they want to see, and they release things when they're ready.
how were the resonances before / after the build?
Hey! Nice build! Do you have input shaper graphs measured on it? Is it possible for you to share them?
Sorry no, we built and tuned this a few months ago. We'll try to re-run the tests and add the results to the description next time we're in the studio
@@MapleLeafMakers thank you so much!
Thank you for the great built video! I have seen, that you screwed metal plates on top of the aluminum extrusions of the y axis. Can you please tell me, what the purpose of them are?
Those are titanium backers! They are used to prevent a little bit of gantry warp during heat cycles.
I don't understand the tap??? What is the function of the linier rail (vertical movement) ???
I like to convert my printer to a voron printer but i don't know if this kit will fit my frame.
My printer has 4040mm aluminium extruded beams as vertical beams and 2020mm for all horizontal beams.
So i don't know if this kit will fit my frame.
If i could download cadfiles for all parts of this kit then i could check this in my cad drawing.
Are you going to do an update video a couple months later? I would definitely consider a kit like this. Would love to hear pros and cons in the next video.
Hey! Not much to report really, the parts still work great! We're using our printers all the time.
Nice job there, do you have plans for the CL carbon fiber gantry kit? I would buy that but i cant find a review for it.
We don't currently have plans but would absolutely love to check it out. Maybe we'll reach out to Chaotic Lab and see if they can help us out!
Looks really great! I’m curious though. Why bother with aluminum parts if you’re just going to run things at exactly the same speeds accelerations? Isn’t that the point of adding rigidity and lightening the traveling parts?
In our case, this printer's limiting factor is the nozzle, not the movement. Our ABS parts could over drive our Revo very quickly as it was so making things go any faster wouldn't matter as it still limited by the flow rate of the Revo.
Our 'upgrade' for this will include a new extruder, hot end, and much higher speeds!
i just built one of these! All metal 350!!
same speed and accel? So the only benefit over the 3dp parts is the convenience of assembly? I was hopping you could run higher accel and speeds with the upgrade
We're fairly certain you can, however there are a lot of variables at play when you push speeds. We'll make another video soon where we push it, but don't want to compare printed parts to metal parts for that directly. We'll be swapping motors and who knows what else on our push for speed!
Great build!
But oooh man, why EBB?! It is a huge pain in the ass to crimp and connet, it gave me so many hours of frustration. Why not Mellow? They have much more common connectors that you can at least find a replacement for. And a much more compact board.
just for the experience, we've already used the mellow board before too :)
So there's very little to gain in terms of speed going all metal?
We didn't tune our speeds up because we are already maxing our revo's flow rate. We'll make another video soon where we try to push the envelope, but it will likely have different motors so won't be a fair comparison either.
It's more rigid and should handle higher accels, but it comes down to a lot of other variables how fast you can push it.
@@MapleLeafMakers It would seem to me that if you are limited by flow rate, then you should keep the maximum speed the same (as you say) but increase the acceleration. Then the printer would spend more it its time at the highest allowable speed. For many parts, acceleration determines the time to complete more than does max speed.
Не проще ли сделать чтоб стол опускался, так конечно лучше не всегда печатаешь высокие детали
The only true benefit I could see with all aluminium might be higher chamber temp. Abs print is not suitable for chamber temp above 80 as it can risk melting and heat expansion of different material becomes a concern
Can you publish your config?
I've heared so many advices to not go for cnc'ed parts. Even Steve and Taylor said don't do it. It supposed to be too stiff and you need the "play" on the flying gantry. Seeing this video I see/hear that its working good for you guys... would you recommend it?
They are still working great for us, on a flying gantry, near a year after installation.
We don't really want to 'recommend' anything, because there's so many variables involved in directing purchase decisions like that. Thanks for watching!
Nice build! Mine is almost identical except I didn't go for the tool-free tensioners. I got mine as a kit from MagicPhoenix and it's been excellent for around a thousand print hours so far.
Very nice!
My v0 is all metal, but I am disappointed in the color choice. It almost always seems just red and black. Don't these companies realize there are other choices out there for accents 😂
mine is almost only black and silver, since ive milled most parts myself, so they are either raw or beadblasted😂 so theres another color than red
I did the same thing w/ my v0. and I agree. I'd be happy even if it was all black because you could choose whatever other accent colors you wanted and it wouldn't clash w/ the red.
Red is faster, Black is stronger. There is reason for color choice. Didn't you see Flash and Batman?
It's probably an economic thing
@@EvgenMonastyrev and here I thought red meant anger and black meant death...
Time to upgrade this thing to print PEEK and Ultem!
Because of the temperatures required in the build space, you not only have to convert everything to metal, you also have to change the entire mechanics and, of course, place all the motors outside the build space. Or to make it short, you have to completely rebuild the Voron for a few thousand dollars so that you can really print these materials in the long term and also reasonably.
Or, if you want to save money, there are appropriate printers that can do this from the factory and cost less than a complete Voron rebuild. 🙂
I hear all metal, I think of an actively heated chamber.
what happened to the Micron build?
We've been super busy with everything and haven't gotten it all edited together yet. We have finished the build though!
the graphs and input shaper accels not changing is very dissapointing and tbh a bit strange
i assume the 6mm belts are still the bottleneck?
We think it's a combination of a few things.
1) We weren't really trying to push it (yet)
2) Our ABS parts were very well printed parts out of CF-ABS, very stiff to begin with.
3) 24V motors that we aren't giving that much power to quite yet (and only 2)
4) 6MM Belts
@@MapleLeafMakers oh 6mm belts would definitely be my guess as the biggest cause! There’s a 9mm belt mod online
Edit: oh nvm you guys would have to cnc new parts.
@@ameliabuns4058 Not just the 6mm width but the diameter of the drive pulleys. A small 20T pulley only has 10 belt teech engaged. With 10T engages you can mmake the belt slip if you drive it too hard. Yes goingh to 9mm gives you 50% better spec. But going to 30T pulley multiplies ther numberteeth engaged by 1.5. There is a limit to what you can do with 2mm pitch GT2 belts. At some point, you have to move up to 3mm or 5mm pitches. My CNC milling machine had to use 9mm wide 3mm pitch belt as I am using the largest NEMA 24 motors I can buy and powering them with 36 volts with current set to 6 to 8 amps. The machine's moving parts are cast iron so they move way-slow compared to a printer. But the hot-end is the limit. Go go really fast you'd need a 200W hot and with water cooling. How much money do you have? A FAR CHEAPER why to go realy fast is to buy two or three more printers that each do "only" 100mm/second.
Full Metal Voron: Opensourcehood?
ChaoticLab is working on open sourcing everything, but some repositories are still empty:
github.com/Chaoticlab/CNC_Tool-free_Tensioner_for_Voron2.4_Z-Axis
github.com/Chaoticlab/CNC_Tool-free_Tensioner_for_Voron2.4-XY
github.com/Chaoticlab/CNC-Tap-for-Voron
github.com/Chaoticlab/Voron2.4-CNC-Parts-Kit
Until today, each chaoticlabs part I bought was shit. The z tensioners have freedom in them and require to screw all the way, which makes their tensioning capability obsolete. The idlers simply broke on me several times.
Wouldn't expect anything else from chinese cnc shops
@@bravefastrabbit770
Let’s avoid racism. It’s not the nationality I’m talking about, I have no issue with Chinese equipment.
Ouch, Sorry to hear that. Everything we got is working great. Have you reached out to ChaoticLab?
@@MapleLeafMakers
I got my parts from west3d which refunded me.
I’ve heard other reviews (just Google it and you’ll see that it’s the same complaints) about the z tensioners.
I agree with the poster regarding the z idlers that come with the chaotic lab 2.4 kit. They use a screw instead of a shoulder bolt and I only got mine to work well with red loctite. The tool free version uses a shoulder bolt and appears to be a much better design except for the lack of eyebrows.
Unfortunate that you didn't show shaper graphs from before and after.
What would you like to have seen on it? They were nearly identical graphs.
all buttrock voron?
Thanks for the commercial. /s
What has infected this hobby with the lie that CAN is better or more worth it than USB???
Fiddling with assignments, higher latency, slower speeds vs. plug and play, less latency, plenty of speed. I don't know who started this but I'm real sick of it.
CAN is a true real-time system that has well-defined timings. I don't know how much that really matters for this. Do we care if a heater temperature value is read with random 3 or 6-millisecond delays? Likely not. But we might care about the timing of the step pulses going to the extruder. If stepping at 100 per second then even a 1ms delay is a 10% speed error
Klipper was able to use USB and do excelent timing because it sends time with the data and the microcontroller can buffer the that. So Klipper couple use USB direct to the exstruder if we were willing to place a (say) RP2040 in the print head. It would work. There is nothing to stop you from making an RP2040 based extruser borad that has USB connection to the Raspberry Pi3.
Where CAN really wins is with larger more complex systems. For example a robot with a doozen motors. A single CAN bus can daisy chain all the motors. With USB I'd need a dozen USB cables. But with just one print head, the cable count is just one, either way. Klipper would make USB possible
.
@@chrisalbertson5838 I don’t understand the argument you’re trying to make.
SB is not metal so not FULL metal voron.