Wire Ferrules - When to Use, How to Crimp, and UL 508A Guidelines

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  • Опубліковано 19 гру 2024

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  • @richardzubrick5721
    @richardzubrick5721 2 роки тому +6

    I was always told that "cage clamp" style terminal, such as the Wago brand, was only for stranded wire, not for ferrules. However the Wago website states that the cage clamp terminals CAN be used with ferrules. I stand corrected! Great videos by the way...

  • @GenericUserUnknown
    @GenericUserUnknown Рік тому +1

    Thank you for taking the time to create these great, informative videos.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  Рік тому

      You are welcome and I'm glad you have found them helpful!

  • @mikefochtman7164
    @mikefochtman7164 3 роки тому +4

    I like the insulated ones, but I have run across some items where the terminals were too close together to accommodate insulated ones. So had to switch for that job. Nice video. And so right about the crimping tool, a good one is worth it.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  3 роки тому

      Yes, I like the insulated ferrules also. A good tool can save you hands!

  • @krzysiektraba5246
    @krzysiektraba5246 3 роки тому +2

    Interesting 3:30. In my opinion, when they say that you should crimp the right crimper, they mean a crimper dedicated to each wire gauge. I work in Siemens factory, and the type of red universal crimper you use, we can only use for double ferrules. For single ones, there is a crimping tool that has an individual channell for a specific wire gauge, like yours a second red crimper in 4:50. Sorry for my english.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  3 роки тому +4

      Personally I don't like the individual trapezoidal crimps. I like the hex crimps followed by the square crimps. But as long as you are crimping a wire in the range specified by the crimper, the UL says you are OK.

    • @krzysiektraba5246
      @krzysiektraba5246 3 роки тому

      @@TimWilborne Thanks for the information, you have great youtube channel.

    • @dwaynes5983
      @dwaynes5983 2 роки тому

      We did the same at Schneider Electric North East.

  • @adisharr
    @adisharr 5 років тому +11

    Insulated ferrules are a must for spring terminal insertion IMO. Really reduces the the potential mistake of inserting a wire too far and partially landing on the wire insulation. Funny story, we had a young guy wiring up his first panel and he didn't know you needed to strip the wires. He did half the panel that way before we caught it HA! :)

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  5 років тому +1

      Haha, that's a funny story! I agree about the insulated ferrules but same as you, it's just my opinion.

  • @steffankaizer
    @steffankaizer 5 років тому +2

    great video. i am pretty sure the insulation on the ferrule is to ensure that the wires are still "finger save" when someone needs to replace a part in the field while other parts of the cabinet are still energized. some wires have the insulation kind of loosely so it retracts back over time and exposes the copper. always strip a little shorter than the ferrule then push the wire even into the ferrule to shove the insulation back

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  5 років тому +1

      I didn't think about the insulation helping the connection be finger safe. Good tip!

    • @wirecrimpingmachinemanfact221
      @wirecrimpingmachinemanfact221 4 роки тому

      Hello, we are Leading Wire Harness and Cable Assembly processing machine manufacturer & supplier in China with high quality and good price. Website: zsht-equipment.com/ Email: sales@zsht-equipment.com Skype: gao.irene Tel/whatsApp/wechat: +86-18676147382

    • @JordanHaisley
      @JordanHaisley 2 роки тому +1

      For aerospace the wire has to be even with or slightly protruding from the end of the ferrule. So if you do cut it short you might not quite get the best connection.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  2 роки тому

      Very good point. I just finished up a video series with Phoenix contact and that was a big thing that they pointed out as well.

  • @mumbles1justin
    @mumbles1justin 5 років тому +4

    Not sure if I missed it but ferrules also allow stranded wire to be terminated on devices that manufactures specifically state solid wire must be used. In other words the ferrules turns stranded wire into solid wire to meet NEC. And since NEC doesn’t allow multiple wires under under one terminal, using the dual wire ferrules allows you to terminate two stranded wires under a single terminal rated for a single wire and comply with NEC. Because once the two wires are crimped with the two wire rated ferrule the connection is reclassified as a single wire termination point. This is all outlined in both UL and NEC and feral manufacturer specs. I just don’t remember which sections off the top of my head.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  5 років тому

      I left the stranded wire in a solid connection out because I couldn't find anything specifically saying that you could do it. But I would say it is the same specification that allows the 2 wire rated ferrule by turning it into a single connection. I'd like to see that section of code to lays that out.
      I was surprised that it said "wire(s)", I was sure that you could only put one wire in a ferrule. I still see some disadvantages to doing this from a troubleshooting perspective since you can separate the circuit to narrow down a problem but it is nice to have the option.
      Thanks for the info Justin!

    • @mumbles1justin
      @mumbles1justin 5 років тому +1

      I total agree. It does make it difficult to troubleshoot when theres two wires crimped together. But a lot of times there isn’t room inside a device for terminal blocks or wire nuts. So two wire ferrules are what I use to appease the inspectors.
      I rarely use two wire ferrules in a control cabinet. If they are used in cabinets it’s only in the rare situation where there’s not enough room for additional terminal blocks.
      I’ll try to find the references tonight. I know I have it somewhere in my notes. I get questioned about the use of ferrules in general every so often because I use single wire ferrules on just about everything and most people don’t even know what they are.
      productspec.ul.com/document.php?id=ZMLF.GuideInfo
      standardscatalog.ul.com/standards/en/standard_486c_7
      standardscatalog.ul.com/standards/en/standard_486e_5

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  5 років тому

      @@mumbles1justin Good links, thanks.

    • @wirecrimpingmachinemanfact221
      @wirecrimpingmachinemanfact221 4 роки тому

      Hello, we are Leading Wire Harness and Cable Assembly processing machine manufacturer & supplier in China with high quality and good price. Website: zsht-equipment.com/ Email: sales@zsht-equipment.com Skype: gao.irene Tel/whatsApp/wechat: +86-18676147382

  • @DG_Fabrication
    @DG_Fabrication Рік тому +1

    Great video this is the explanation I have been looking for!

  • @christopherlyons7613
    @christopherlyons7613 Рік тому +1

    Thanks for the video. A couple questions. First after you strip your wire, should it be twisted prior to inserting it into the ferrule? Or should it be inserted straight?
    It's hard to see but when I zoom in on your panel it looks like you are using ferrules on your PLC connections (you can see the yellow insulated edge of the ferrule on those connections) but it looks like you are not using ferrules on the lower row connections (can't see any insulation color on those connections). If ferrules weren't used on those lower connections, why didn't you use them? Are there any type of components that you don't use ferrules on?
    It looks like you didn't heat shrink your wire labels before installing them. Why is that? In general when do you recommend heat shrink labels have heat applied? And how close to the ferrule should labels be applied? I find it tough sometimes to not melt a bit of the ferrule insulation if the labels are placed too close. Are there any UL specifications regarding where labels are placed?
    Appreciate any help. Thanks.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  Рік тому +1

      Hi Christopher. Here is a video we did on that
      ua-cam.com/play/PLUi5cdVq3wTAV2k2paP7e8JawhT_6eHAa.html

  • @happyhusky4283
    @happyhusky4283 2 роки тому +2

    Can I use these Ferrules to crimp wire for home audio spring connector in my Onkyo amplifier?

  • @johnbryan1523
    @johnbryan1523 Рік тому +1

    Wow lots of great info! Great video!!!

  • @windward2818
    @windward2818 10 місяців тому +1

    Companies who make electrical panels for their equipment like CNC manufacturers, will have internal requirements to meet UL 508A with UL 486 consideration (pull strength, etc.), and also have best practices based on actual testing and operational experience in the field.
    A screw pressure connection in UL 508A as compared to the NEC many times for conductors10 AWG and smaller are addressing the basic differences between stranded and solid conductors in connecting devices and circuits in a panel. A simple example is with house romex wiring solid 12 AWG copper, as just one example, which would be connected to a breaker in a panel. In this case the breaker screw pressure connection is designed for a 12 AWG solid wire (and will list the required screw torque), that is, assumes that there is no separation of strands which is valid because it is a solid conductor so there are no strands to separate. But, what if we wanted to connect THHN/THWN 12 AWG stranded wire (which is also NEC listed as an approved wire type) to the same breaker screw pressure connector. What I have found is there is no standard in how a screw pressure connection is designed. Some seem to accommodate stranded wire better than others. Some designs are so bad that you know the connection will loosen if the strands move or shift due to machine vibration or conductor heat cycling. The solution is to use a ferrule when using stranded wire, with the added flexibility of selecting the ferrule crimp shape (square, hex, semi-round, etc.) to best accommodate the device screw connection design.
    The NEC (as UL listed) does not require any derating or special consideration when using stranded copper wire with a ferrule. However, most companies will require the method to be listed (tested) through the manufacturer of the ferrule and how it is used. This basically results in the ferrule and crimp tool coming from the same manufacturer like Weimuller, as an example, with best application practices documented through a written approved document or a manufacturer's guide. A bonus is if the company makes dual wire ferrules which is a very good and inexpensive way to make a splice.
    As mentioned in the video, if you are crimping eyelets to a screw terminal strip it is very similar in using ferrules because the eyelet and the crimper used will be tested to give a complete connection and pass UL 486.
    The panel in the video did not show very large gauge wire stranded wire terminations. If the connection is to a screw connection lug (one where you insert the cable with a single Allen screw) with stranded wire a ferrule will be used, in my experience up to about 2/0 size, and Weidmuller makes ferrules for large conductors (I stock up to 1/0). If the connection is to a bus bar then a bolted crimp lug is used. Here again to meet UL 486 the crimper (which is usually hydraulic at a minumum of 6T up to about 2/0 copper), lug and die are specified for a specific NEC stranded wire type (lay), usually coming from the same manufacturer although with more mix and match options than ferrules. Common would be using W dies from Burndy that can be used in many different 6T crimpers, from obviously Burndy, but also Panduit, Greenlee and others. For larger conductors you would move to a 12T crimper with U die index D.
    In panel making we have the added difficulty of using specialty large size conductors that have the proper rating but have different stranding than NEC class B (standard THHN/THWN). If the connection is into an Allen screw compression lug we can use a ferrule, but if it is to a bolted lug we have to then choose the lugs and the dies (may require multiple crimps) that will produce a complete solid cold welding of the joint. Which means you have to run some test crimps, saw through the crimp and inspect the quality and completeness of the crimp, then document the procedure as part of the assembly instructions. I have seen high stranding copper wire (like type K welding cable) used with an Allen screw compression lug with the expected poor connection and overheating (through thermal camera inspection), which would be easily remedied using a ferrule. However, when using a bolted lug you don't really know the performance of the crimp until you test it. You see this a lot in Marine panel applications, because the conductors are made of fine stranded tin plated strands which has no approved and tested "system" to make the crimps.

  • @Ozzy2341
    @Ozzy2341 5 місяців тому +1

    Great video Tim, what brand wire do you recommend for 14 to 16 awg 600 volt rated ? Any online source you can recommend?

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  5 місяців тому +1

      Here is a video with some ferrule recommendations.
      ua-cam.com/video/GSUmJg-_1YA/v-deo.html

  • @patelp9701
    @patelp9701 2 роки тому +2

    So i am using a screw terminal and the Ferrule is too long to pit because otherwise part of it sticks out but it still clamps nicely. Should I cut the extra leng rn from the ferrule? It’s 16AWG at most 30A of current

  • @dwaynes5983
    @dwaynes5983 2 роки тому +1

    I was wiring into 12 drives and the spring clip on the tb"s were so weak and cheap I had to use ferrules for the two wires going in. What I do is strip the wire back longer then ferrule. crimp then cut the excess wire back to ferrule. !00% filled.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  2 роки тому +1

      I've learned through the Phoenix Contact video series that not all terminal blocks are the same.

  • @siggitiggi
    @siggitiggi Рік тому +1

    Funnily enough in my country they require ferrules on stranded wires with screw terminals, as the screw terminals rated torque sometimes outstrips the wires malleability resulting in strands breaking when tightened (as in screw directly onto a wire).

  • @subbunathi2826
    @subbunathi2826 Рік тому +1

    Thank you sir very nice explained if you don't mind please requested for you chiller control wirinig please
    Thank you

  • @kingofslotsmillion3263
    @kingofslotsmillion3263 11 місяців тому +1

    I work in a control building line . And was just given a Farrel kit to use. But some terminations require 2 wires to jump from device to device. Can I use 1 Ferrell for 2 wires? Or how do I terminate 2 wired

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  11 місяців тому +1

      They make ferals specifically designed to put two wires in. And they are good per UL.

  • @rafaelcelebrado6776
    @rafaelcelebrado6776 2 роки тому +1

    Is it still required to put shirkable tube if we are using ferrules?

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  2 роки тому +1

      I've never heard of that requirement.

  • @ga6287
    @ga6287 4 місяці тому +1

    Question(s):
    I saw a video where someone took 3, 14awg wire into 1 large ferrule.
    I know there are ferrules for double wire 14 awg.
    Is there some for 3? Is this allowed?
    It seemed very odd for me.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  4 місяці тому +2

      I have seen this done also but I have never seen a ferrule that officially allows more than 2 wires.

  • @dimmuo4127
    @dimmuo4127 5 років тому +2

    I`ve been using ferrules for all multi-core wires of 0.5 to 6 sq.mm (sorry for not AWG interpritation, we don`t use it in Ukraine). That`s the way to keep wire managing inside the control box accurate and to re-tight easily if needed. Non-insulated ferrules in my opinion is non prefferable in term of extreme wire bending angles per length between the wire insulation edge and ferrule`s bottom.
    But of course you should follow the local guides.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  5 років тому +1

      I agree with the sharp bend problem with the non insulated ferrules. Thanks for watching!

  • @25hztolife86
    @25hztolife86 4 роки тому +2

    I use the crimper tool for the ferrules. I also use braided sleeves and heat shrink. I use it for car audio. Would heat shrink and braided sleeves pass inspection? Just wondering.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  4 роки тому +4

      Cars don't fall under UL so I don't know

  • @evelynricahrds2461
    @evelynricahrds2461 3 роки тому +2

    I recently caught our tech installing several wires into individual terminal connectors and purchased ferrules rated for 2 wires to solve the issue. Our quarterly 508a audit should be any day now so I guess I'll find out what he has to say about it. lol.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  3 роки тому +1

      Good luck!

    • @dwaynes5983
      @dwaynes5983 2 роки тому

      Our engineer wanted us to install 12 wires 0vdc wires at the plc card. hahahahahahah

  • @davcot3675
    @davcot3675 5 років тому +1

    We use ferrules on all stranded wires
    What is ur thought on ferrules on Thermo couple wire ? Dissimilar metal

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  5 років тому

      The way I read it UL 508A says a ferrule can only be used on a copper strand wire. See 29.3.6(a) at link below. www.theautomationstore.com/wire-ferrules-when-to-use-how-to-crimp-insulated-vs-non-insulated-and-ul-508a-guidelines/

    • @chrisdurkin7
      @chrisdurkin7 5 років тому +1

      @@TimWilborne The main directive of using only copper stranded wire is so that there is not an opportunity for corrosion to start among dissimilar metals (an issue seen in making aluminum to copper connections, usually in a mains or high voltage application, that requires a specialized device that not only addresses the metallurgy transition, but also has a sealed gel that prevents oxidation and corrosion on the wires).
      The issue with thermocouple wires adds the additional problem of introducing different metal interfaces, which will act as a different type of thermocouple connection, and potentially (and likely) skew your temperature measurement.

    • @WorBlux
      @WorBlux 2 роки тому

      @@chrisdurkin7 So you're talking mV on the wire... and generally nickel if not copper. I'd be much more concerned about throwing the measurement all out of whack.

  • @leonardmayer2362
    @leonardmayer2362 2 роки тому

    How do you straighten the strands of wire to fit into ferrule?

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  2 роки тому

      Don't strip the wire until you are ready to put the ferrule on. Otherwise yes you will be straightening out the whiskers by hand.

  • @robertosalazarjr1205
    @robertosalazarjr1205 5 років тому +1

    I got myself a crimper off Amazon but for some reason in my opinion this is not a good quality crimper because I have a hard time fitting into small PLC inserts. Which one do you recommend

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  5 років тому

      This one is similar to mine. controls.tw/sbqbs
      Probably more important is what size wire are using and what is the maximum wire size specified by the PLC terminal.

    • @sandra9241
      @sandra9241 3 роки тому +1

      @@TimWilborne Hello Tim! question, for a twin cable end with a cable cross section 0.50mm2 AWG: 22 which one do you recommend? I was thinking of Crimpfox Centrus 10S - 1213154. I think a square shaped crimper is better than the trapezoidal or hex shape.

    • @WorBlux
      @WorBlux 2 роки тому

      @@sandra9241 Square is better for square holes.. a lot of the DIN rail stuff, and screw clamp terminals. Hex for round holes/terminations, and trapezoid is for the one guy who insists his crimping tool can to anything with the right anvil on it.

  • @BeekersSqueakers
    @BeekersSqueakers 5 місяців тому +1

    Interesting that you can't use them on aluminum.
    Admittedly, I recently installed an e-stop into a small, desktop machine that was already using aluminum wire and used ferrules for the connections...

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  5 місяців тому +1

      It is never a good idea to use dissimilar metals.

    • @BeekersSqueakers
      @BeekersSqueakers 5 місяців тому +1

      @TimWilborne Just to make sure I understand, as I'm still relatively inexperienced.
      Was using ferrules on the existing aluminum wire a mistake? Or would mixing copper and aluminum wire have been the mistake?
      I used aluminum wire at the same gage for all added lines to keep everything consistent.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  5 місяців тому

      Anytime you pass electricity through dissimilar metals such as copper and aluminum, you will get galvanic corrosion. There are very few ferrules suited for aluminum wire. Even though they may look aluminum, they are tin coated copper.
      Speaking of which, are you sure the wire was aluminum and not tin coated copper? Aside from service entrance cables into homes, aluminum wire is very uncommon. Here is an upcoming video where I talk about tin coated copper
      ua-cam.com/video/vO1RbYiQWD8/v-deo.html

    • @BeekersSqueakers
      @BeekersSqueakers 5 місяців тому +1

      @TimWilborne That's good to know, thank you.
      The machine was a cheap, foreign import. I presumed they used aluminum to reduce cost. The wire was 20awg, so it was difficult to tell whether the strands had copper cores. That'll be something for me to check. I've been the only one using the machine for testing since the install. Its not production live yet.
      Short of soldered ends, are there any recommended terminals for aluminum?
      UPDATE: I checked the specs for the wire I used, and it was tinned copper. I'll be checking the pre-existing wire tomorrow.

    • @TimWilborne
      @TimWilborne  5 місяців тому +1

      I would be it is all tinned copper. Much more common than aluminum. Pretty much the only time you see aluminum wire is power wiring. And when it is used, it is important that you use dielectric grease for the same reason.