@@ancientpathstv Well,english is not my first language but I wanted to say what I think.From what I have expirienced in orthodox church after holy mysteries, gives me confidence to say that Holy Spirit is in this church,I don't know for Catholic church and no one can tell me different.What I felt after my first confession can not compare with anything from this world!Of course this is something very personal but I have to write this because I know It's true what I wrote.I'm sorry if I don't write correct words.
@@norah327 To allow one self to see the errors of some traditions that are held by either our church or others is not the same as rejecting what God has done in your life. Nothing limits the Lord from ministering to you when you come with humbleness of heart and confess before Him, and His Spirit reaches all who are lowly of heart and calls upon the name of the Lord. We are many who have been blessed by the Lord and experienced His love and forgiveness, of all branches and streams of Christianity, something to be glad for! However, to close ones eyes to the failures and lacks that are, in spite of our experiences, present in our churchly practices and our understandings of the history of the faith and Church, is not the way to continue. We have the tendency to cling on to the instruments through which we experience grace, and the love of the Lord Jesus Christ, but we will do well in remembering that it is the Lord Himself we should cling on to, and not the instruments and human mediators. Stay honest to what is true, and when the truth is revealed do not reject it because of what is familiar and seems safe.
I am not sure how one can say that the Council of Hieria is rejected by Orthodox because it sounds Protestant. Doesn't your video show that the 7th Ecumenical Council was established prior to Protestantism? If you are saying that Orthodox today pick and choose which councils to accept based on their reaction to Protestantism it reveals a deeper misunderstanding and misrepresenting of how tradition functions in Orthodoxy. There is nothing in your quote of the Council of Hieria that sounds Protestant. It speaks of accepting what was handed down from the earlier councils and not of searching the Scriptures as the final authority. Just imagine an OPC General Assembly saying the same thing about these first six councils and you will understand my point. Also, the icons are just a manifestation of an underlying orientation to the saints that wsa held by both iconoclasts of Hieria and the iconophiles of the 7th Ecumenical Council. Both councils believed in the intercession of the Saints - a dogma that was ubiquitous and pre-Nicea. The iconoclasts believed what no Reformed Protestant believes - that holiness is mediated through material things like water, the Eucharist and the symbol of the Cross. This is the failure of Protestantism. The Apostles did not just leave us Scripture, they imparted their very lives to their successors. That way of life was passed on by the Fathers and preserved by the Church. I spent over 20 years in Protestant churches. The only time the Fathers and Saints were mentioned was to criticize them. If anything good was mentioned about Athanasius or Polycarp or Augustine it was only with qualification that they were in error on many points. For example, Protestants would not accept the views of Athanasius put forth in his Life of Anthony so why should we take seriously anything they quote from Athanasius to make him sound like a Protestant. There is no mechanism in Protestant churches like yours for honor to the Fathers because they don't belong to you. You don't receive them. Sadly, you are orphans. That is the failure of Protestantism.
The Council of Hieria was the first to address icons and declared John of Damascus a heretic. They didn't have the label "Protestant," but, like those who would later be called Protestants, they argued from Scripture. The Second Council of Nicaea declared John of Damacus a saint and relied on his fake history of oral tradition. Just as it is fallible today, the church has always been fallible. There are fathers who are more and less faithful to the Scriptures. That doesn't mean we ignore them. Our congregation recites the Nicene Creed in every worship service. None of the early fathers support icons or your gospel. You can make all kinds of gratuitous assertions to the contrary, but that doesn't make them true.
@ancientpathstv Please explain... what is the point of reciting a creed if you don't belong to the body that formed that creed and you reject everything else that they stood for? Why use a creed at all?
As a confessional Lutheran, I do in fact reject the Calvinist teaching of iconoclasm. However, I am in agreement on the matter of rejecting iconodulia as well. My understanding is that images of Christ and the saints can be helpful in prayer and devotion if witnessed, and can rouse piety in a man upon laying eyes on it, just as the same would be for one who sees an image of the Cross of our Lord. Yet, I would also never say it is necessary that these images be made not venerated. It’s a happy middle, as far as I’m concerned.
Reformed theology-qua-reformed theology is not inherently iconoclastic. Between icondulia (the position of the 2nd Nicene creed) and iconoclasm, there is a middle position-- Aniconism which distinguishes between religious art which can be legitimate and have pedagogical value on the one hand, and icondulia which is the theologically imposed necessity of venerating images under the threat of anathema, which it rejects. Many reformed folks (myself included) fall into this camp. Your comment reeks of gross reductionism.
I am a confessional Lutheran as well. Our position would often be called the “Carolingian Position.” As you outlined above, images and art are a wonderful and useful tool for our faith. We do not need to destroy them or see them as a necessary component of worship and veneration. The truth is not iconoclasm or iconodulia.
2nd Nicaea pronounces anathema on all who will not venerate the sacred images, on all who have doubts about doing so, and on all who lack true affection for the icons. 2nd Nicaea adds an unScriptural requirement for salvation
I think what protestants are trying to say to the EO camp is, we believe that you dont practice in ways that we say you practice. For example, when asking most EO people, ' are those outside of the EO church not saved?" Most Eo people I have talked to will say, yes they could be but that is for God to decide. Truthfully, I agree with that, that is for God to decide. But the problem is, is that you have ecumenical councils that say the opposite. Basically saying that if you are not part of the EO church then you are not saved. So if you claim to be the true church. Then you must believe what they believed back in the day. If a modern EO person says I can possibly be saved outside of the EO church, then my simple response is that you do not even know your own history.
The quote mining in the first 5 minutes is already laughable. Irenaeus, in the same book III of Against Heresies, affirms tradition passed down by the presbyters and clergy. In Chapter IV of Book III he even more clearly lays out how the Church keeps the truth and apostolic tradition. Unbelievable.
The rhetorical games you're playing are laughable. "Quote mining" and "cherry-picking" are terms used when people can't actually demonstrate that a quote is taken out of context. You've set up a straw man, where oral tradition is equal to Scripture or ignored. It's neither. Irenaeus said what he said. The quote calls the Scriptures the "pillar and ground of our faith" and flies in the face of those who want to subordinate them to traditions that contradict them and one another.
This point is utterly humiliating, and laughable, Eastern Orthodox quote mind 7th Century quotes made by Heterodox to support their ideals. Not only that but there are whole letters written about the idolization of icons (Letter LI. From Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis, in Cyprus, to John, Bishop of Jerusalem) which is mentioned in this video if you even watched it.
Go ahead and mock. Keep telling yourself Eastern Orthodoxy is what has been believed everywhere, always, by all. Ignore all the evidence to the contrary. One day you will stand before a holy God and answer for having loved a lie.
@@ancientpathstv Right, and God revealed the totality of the true Christianity in the 16th century by a 20 year old lawyer, ordained by nobody, self-appointed corrector of apparently over a thousand years of error. Good luck entrusting your salvation to that. Not all that different than the claim of the muslims that the crucifixion was a phantasm that Allah was perfectly happy to let people believe in and be damned for 600 years for no reason but his own glory. Not that different from Calvinism, in fact you think God turned a blind eye for longer.
At around 13:10 the narrator compares St Athansius and St Make of Ephes to Luther and Calvin, satjng that their opposal to councels is the same as as Luther's and Calvin's. The big difference is that the first were part of Christ's church and were already proven teachers and honored with the highest rank of bishops and the second were 2 people who had 500 years separation from the truth and never came to know Orthodoxy. The comparison is just not equal.
The point is that councils have erred. They contradict not only the Scriptures, but one another. The ultimate authority isn't Athanasius, Luther or Calvin, but God's clear teaching in the Bible.
@@ancientpathstv Councils led by heresiarchs are false (As Saints Athanasius and Mark of Ephesus were against) Do you not get that?! But the rejection of all councils as binding as Luther and Calvin resorted to is going overboard beyond the recognition of false councils
@@willtheperson7224 Name-calling and avoidance of the evidence are signs that what you're defending is a lie. How about actually engaging the documented history and arguments from Scripture?
I used it because it nicely summarizes the Eastern position on Helvidius. Helvidius was pre-Chalcedon. Like many American Coptic priests, Fr. Abraham Wassif is a St. Vladimir's graduate, who's articulating the same thing an Eastern Orthodox priest would say, but because it's coming from a Copt, it's supposedly suspect. It demonstrates that Eastern Orthodox will grasp at anything to claim I know nothing and ignore the overwhelming evidence against their position.
@@ancientpathstvI see. I'm Oriental Orthodox and watched your video fully (took 3 days to get through it all). Good production and editing I will give you that just a marathon to watch.
@@famicommike9014 Thank you! There was a lot of information to pack in. 🙂 I could have done a whole lot more, but I was trying to crystallize the main issues and yet deal with them substantively. I've had Eastern Orthodox not only complain about Wassif, but even the clip of Patriarch Kirill. 🙂
@@ancientpathstv well if it means anything, the EO don't even recognize the Oriental Orthodox churches like the Syriac, Coptic, Armenian, etc etc as Orthodox since the Council of Chalcedon. On a funny but odd note, My Greek Fat Wedding the movie of all things did introduce me to Orthodoxy back in 2009.
14:50 - What??? Paul did not write or leave a bible, he wrote like 7 letters not the Gospels or Revelations. The Church tells us what is Canon. 19:15 - Refuted by Joshua 7:6 - Thanks for selling me on Orthodoxy
Paul left a complete Old Testament, a complete Pauline corpus, the Book of Acts, and probably most of the rest of the New Testament. You seem to think the church waited centuries before knowing what came from the apostles. Irenaeus in the second century didn't. He named all four gospels, quoted from them, and rejected the counterfeits. Try again.
@@ancientpathstv he did not leave a complete old testament, there was no uniform Old testament amongst jews - secondly Irenaeus quoting the gospels doesn't is a non sequitur to then take the view he identified what the whole canon was - disingenuous and bad argumentation
@@danube466 I stand firmly behind my assessment of the exclusivity of the Orthodox Church. Be assured that there is a small believing remnant in every Christian denomination. ✔️
I am a former Catholic, now Lutheran. I spent many months weighing the claims the EO tradition makes, and like you, I can't help but see they fall flat in the weight of historical evidence. I find it ironic that so many "Orthobros" accuse protestants of being emotional when discussing Orthodoxy, but they retreat to the exact same emotive nonsense when faced with well-argued criticism. I think, on the anathematizations the Catholics (until V2), Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox churches make, Joshua Schooping, an ex-Orthodox priest and current Lutheran paster, has a very strong response: "The absurdity of what could perhaps be called the Imperialist ecclesiological position (which includes the Romanist and Orientals together with the Orthodox) is made all the more clear when one must realize that each schismatic branch says substantially the same thing about themselves being right and the others being wrong, and using the same kinds of proofs, thus putting impossible pressure on those outside the Church to be able to make accurate enough historical judgments concerning the vicissitudes of Church history in order to enter the right, salvific Church. According to this extreme and externalist ecclesiology, a person outside the Church, and therefore a non-recipient of God’s saving grace, could not reasonably or perhaps even in principle make such a determination. The genius of Protestantism, however, is that despite what is claimed by the Orthodox, Romanists, and Orientals, Protestants are not in principle schismatic or factious. Why? Because they do not presuppose in the midst of inevitable differences between administrative and organizational bodies that those outside of their administrative bodies are necessarily outside the Church considered as the Body of Christ." The ecclesiological position of these churches is untenable, impossible at face value. Three churches and their schismatics (Old Calendarists, SSPX, etc.) all make identical, mutually exclusive claims about their veracity, and they all proclaim councils which agreed with their theological presuppositions as Ecumenical.
Joshua is a friend and reviewed this before its release. Please be sure to check out our followup videos on Cyril Lucaris and the Filioque. Lord willing, The Patristic Roots of the Reformed Faith is coming soon.
Thank you so much for this brilliant exposition of church history and the power of the scripture alone. I considered Eastern Orthodoxy for some time as I was drawn to the aesthetics and the way it advertises itself as taking the faith more seriously, but the de-emphasizing of the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement and the heretical asceticism that is viewed as a virtue in the tradition are unacceptable. This context on the history of orthodoxy and the twisting of the truth that has slowly corrupted the movement is so important, as many in the west who are ignorant of this history are in danger of falling into this sect that attributes the teachings of man to God. Don’t be discouraged by the hate and slander coming from the orthodox community. I pray that they would listen to your points and that their eyes would be opened to the ways in which their doctrine lacks a firm foundation in the word of God. Please continue to speak the truth of the scripture with boldness🙏
I think I already commented but I have to say what an amazing job you did. This great work of love and compassion educates people from going into the darkness of Eastern Orthodoxy! Soli Deo Gloria!
Amen to that! 7 years i spent in this Gospel of asceticism which is no Gospel. It almost led me to renounce my marriage and hed for Athos! Praise God for his Glorious true Gospel of Free Grace.
@Veganismdebunked812 Ah yes. The same Peter Dimond who pauses videos and concludes that the weird expression of the person on the video is proof they are possessed by demons. Clearly an intellectually and spiritually inclined person worthy of Dyer's time.
Brother, this is why Protestantism is replete with 12,000 denominations. Cherry-picking tradition and selective interviews to create your edit is unkind and full of errors. At 19:25 it's clear you're not a Greek speaker, typing out Greek letters doesn't help you understand veneration, I've seen protestants venerate their dessert more than I appreciate the legacy of the saints passed over, veneration isn't spooky, it's remembering the way CHRIST worked through human hands for the cause of the Kingdom. If you want to be true in your critique you should allow these interviewees a right of reply to your curated edit.
Do you really believe me to be a brother in Christ? If so, how do you reconcile that with your church anathematizing me and calling for me to be unforgiven in this life and the next? If not, why are you calling me brother? Your accusations of "cherry-picking" are dishonest unless you can demonstrate actual misrepresentation. Sadly, Eastern Orthodox just keep parroting the term, thinking it makes all the evidence go away. If you bothered to watch the whole video, you'd see that your accusation of 12,000 Protestant denominations is also a lie. Eastern Orthodox are counted over 500 times in the 45,000 denominations typically cited. Roman Catholicism is counted 370 times, because they count each rite in each country once. Cultists, schismatics, and apostates make up the vast majority of the rest and are not Protestants. Instead of dishonestly looking to ignore the evidence, how about honestly trying to disprove it?
@@ancientpathstv Are you really trying to pardon the mass division within greater Protestantism? Possibly the worst witness in all of Christendom. You should consider the beam in your own eye brother
Your translation of Patriarch Kiril is faulty. At 1:23 you translate it as “Mutually Destructive”, Междоусобный or Mezhuusobnij has a connotation of “between brethren” or an internal feud between a king and a pretender to the Throne see ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Междоусобная_война_на_Руси
The death in war he’s speaking of has nothing to do with atonement; the point is that as Christ said “there is no greater love than to give your life for one’s friend”. The point is that if you go to war for this reason in your heart (of which only God really knows), it will count to your fulfillment of that commandment from Christ. The Christian Church is not pacifist and this coming from the Presbyterians is laughable. Your entire tradition was intimately involved in the English civil war and Scottish irredentist movements.
The Orthodox Church in the US is seeing an increase in new converts while the Protestant denominations are in decline. As Protestants get more woke, the faithful look for a more ancient authentic faith. They start attending divine liturgical services and they find a home in Orthodox Church. At my parish many young men seeking the truth convert and they bring their families. So we are growing. My recommendation is attend a local parish and experience the Orthodox Way for yourself.
Here in Germany people are leaving Catholic and orthodox churches en masse, only the Bible only/born again Christians are getting more and more every day.
@@mkbr1992 and Protestants are growing more than any other tradition worldwide including orthodox countries. We can’t confuse the online orthobro fad with reality.
@@eremiasranwolf3513 I mean, aren’t you kind of larping as a Protestant by trying to fit in with them by condemning the Orthodox, despite being a Papist? Also, how is that Papist prophecy by a literal child about Russia’s conversion to Papism going?
@@mkbr1992 The overall amount of the Orthodox can still be dwindling overall while the amount of converts increases. These aren’t mutually exclusive. I know that in my parish last year we received more converts than any other year in the history of our parish.
Mormons say the same. Instead of listening to God's Word and the historic testimony of the church, they invent their own history and bear their testimony. I pray for them, as I pray for you, that God will open their eyes, and they'll stop loving lies.
@@ancientpathstv Baptists say it Presbyterians say they are the original church. So do Amish and Pentecostals. The Orthodox and Catholics can trace their roots to Jesus and Not John Calvin and John Knox.
Eastern Orthodoxy Documentary is solid 🪨 I'm not Prostestant I'm a Catholic who loves Jesus Christ & that's What the Church Father's wants. Jesus Christ Said to follow the will of the Father. Eastern Orthodox are becoming National isolated Churches supported by Russia, the American Orthodox doesn't agree with ROCOR. Schism since 2018 in Eastern Orthodoxy just facts. 🙏🗝️🗝️
Orthodox share the gospel every single service. All their services are lead from scripture directly and they read the bible as a CHURCH to avoid people making their own iinterpretations, they also partake in the eucharist. When christ said, this wine is my blood and this levant bread is my flesh, he wasn't joking. Prostestants think that is "symbolic" but not really his flesh nor his blood, in scripture, christ never said " oh btw, this is symbolic". It's by partaking in the eucharist that the body of christ enters you and you become part of the body, prostestants have grapejuice and gluten free bread....
@ 9:15 you say the attendance at the Council of Hieria in 754 was greater than five of the previous six ecumenical councils. How many of the patriarchs (or representatives of the five patriarchates) were at this council?
The Patriarchate of Constantinople was vacant during Hieria. Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria were under Muslim control, and the emperor who called the council (every ecumenical council was called by one) no longer ruled in the West, so Rome was not sought. Eastern Orthodox claim this makes it obviously a "robber synod." The reality is very different. There were no patriarchs at the Jerusalem Council, but apostles. Rome, Antioch, and Alexandria claimed to be apostolic sees very early and to hold some kind of apostolic authority, but the idea of patriarchs developed over time. Chalcedon as "the new Rome" was declared a patriarchate in the fourth century. Jerusalem in the fifth. Eastern Orthodox also ignore that the later Council of Constantinople that affirmed Hieria was presided over by the Patriarch of Constantinople.
@@ancientpathstv Patriarchs are bishops. Bishops assumed the ministry of the apostles in the handing down of the faith, as those entrusted by the apostles. So the point that there were no bishops at Jerusalem, only apostles, seems to fall flat. For example, you're not an apostle, but I assume you make some decisions in your church? I assume some Reformed people get together and decide together, in a conciliar manner, that they're not going to go along with the LGBT agenda. None of those who chose to split from the corrupted Reformed churches were apostles. By 754, Rome, Antioch and Alexandria were well established as part of the five patriarchates. Same with Chalcedon and Jerusalem. Ecumenical Councils are conciliar. It is unthinkable that one bishop (or no bishops) could decide for all the others. As with the early church, there is a hierarchy in Orthodoxy. No one makes up their own mind, apart from the Body of Christ, apart from presbyters or overseer (bishop). It's unthinkable in Orthodoxy for "everyone to do what is right in his own eyes". So this specific point---i.e., your reliance on the Council of Hieria as the true 7th Council--is a bit weak. Also, the mention of interference by emperors (and empresses) avoids the fact that Protestantism was urged on by political reformers. Much like George Soros and the global oligarchs are influencing all the churches today with social justice activism and the sodomite agenda, the Church has always been pushed this way and that way by external, secular forces. The same can be said for Israel in the OT. We all live in a Real World, governed by God and his Providence.
@@ancientpathstvThe answer is zero. And yet somehow they made it to Nicea II, 33 years later, when the situation was not much different if you’re arguing geopolitics was prohibitive. Let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
@@cayetanohuett9037 The whole point is that councils contradict and were all tainted to varying degrees with political intrigue. Some were more faithful, while others were heretical. Eastern Orthodox appeal to a triumph by the sword in the eighth century, while ignoring that God eventually gave the whole Byzantine Empire over to destruction. The Scriptures don't contradict. They are infallible. The church isn't.
Give me a break....smh i converted from a protestant reformed tradition many year's ago to orthodox faith. That was back in 2003. Then that reformed tradition was split on minor doctrinal disagreements, now its over what is a trans and gays being legally married. Smh. I thank God im Orthodox today. Thank you Lord. Lord help those struggling to leave false denominations to find true Church in Orthodoxy Faith.
Mormons also appeal to divisions among others and "bear their testimony" as a way of ignoring that their church is a lie and their gospel unbiblical. How about realizing that schism and heresy are both sins?
@ancientpathstv that's fool hardy to say as any Christian should know The Mormon Organization is heretical to begin with and not Christian. Why compare apples and oranges? But the fruits of Mormonism are posion . There is no comparison. I would also point out Hank Hanagraf the Bible Answer man had all his questions answered by Holy Mother Church Orthodoxy. May you also 🙏 ☺️
@@whiteoctober4582 I've demonstrated the truth from the Scriptures and church history. If name-calling is the best defense you have for Eastern Orthodoxy, you really need to reconsider it.
I'm at 15:03, it is a strange claim to say that the Apostle Paul left the Christians with the bible. No, he left them indeed with his letters, and oral explanations. A valid point is raised however, in that the Eastern Orthodox simply assume they know what the oral teachings were despite not being able to provide a word for it. But there was no New Testament canon until the council of Nicaea. Is this council also wrong? If so, why do Christians essentially universally accept it's New Testament canon?
Orthodox Christians: Ha ha ha, silly Protestants you guys are so divided! You guys think the Holy Spirit is confused! Also Orthodox Christians: Can non-Orthodox Christians go to heaven? Well, some of us say yes and some of say no...we are united in division!
Also Orthodox Christians: Nah Cyril and Origen were theological bums cuz they rejected icons … nah these guys were saints and theological beasts because they believed in Mary’s perpetual virginity!
@@adjustedbrass7551 The truth is that God has spoken, and He defines orthodoxy contrary to you. Eastern Orthodoxy isn't the faith of the apostles or the early church. We document the differences in the video, but since you don't engage any of its content, I'm guessing you haven't bothered to watch it all. I'm not to rehearse it all again in a comment.
Hey man, As someone who was a very serious inquirer for the better part of a year, can I ask what about this video leads you to be encouraged to head to your local EO church? God bless
The Orthodox is the oldest Christian Religion and will remain the true one. It was said recently that the catholics and orthodox shall unite, but the true Easter will not happen. We are Christians, we shall stay unite! But Orthodox dogma will remain the true one.
I spent a long time listening to Eastern Orthodox and answering them from church history and God's Word. You simply make a gratuitous assertion. Did you watch the whole video?
@@mihaaai7834 I came into the Eastern Orthodox Church 20+ years ago coming out of Roman Catholic tradition and a brief stint in the Lutheran church. Over the years, I have learned more about my Christian faith and roots through research and readings, especially doing biblical studies and research. I came to realize that the Eastern Orthodox Church tends to demonize and vilify other faithful believers in Jesus Christ instead of reaching out to fellow believers. This has bothered me for years, many so-called Orthodox don’t even read the Bible, only what the priest tells them.
05:50 - Luther stated that the General (Ecumenical) councils erred 06:20 - Synod of Tyre 08:08 - The ecumenical councils claim that they have the authority of the Holy Spirit like the apostles did in Acts 15 23:08 - Constantia the sister of Constantine requested an image but Eusebius reminded her that such things are banished 23:41 - Epiphanius of Salamis tears asunder an image of a man because it was placed as a curtain in a church 24:31 - John of Damascus makes a false claim 25:13 - John of Damascus's story of Apgar requesting an image of Jesus and Jesus allegedly creating an icon. Earliest evidence of this story is from 4th century 26:13 - John of Damascus cites 1st century works of Dionysius the Areopagite. 26:55 - Unfortunately for the Orthodox, all Dionysius's alleged works were forged in the 6th century, according to the Orthodox themselves.
All other forms of Christianity failed to call me to Christ, so Orthodoxy has not failed. I would have died an atheist if the only church I ever knew of was Presbyterian.
The Pharisees were thought to be the most devout Jews. Jesus told them they were of their father, the devil. Rejecting the Jesus of the Bible takes many forms.
I would say glory to God. Calvinism failed me personally, and perhaps others, but I wouldn't go as far as to make a 2 hour long video saying that it has failed in total; and nor would I make non sequitur remarks about Pharisees in the comments of such a video.
@@machinotaur I'm glad to hear that. I also say glory to God for those who find Christ through Eastern Orthodoxy (or Calvinism, which I disagree with as well). But I think it's important to recognize wherever any tradition has departed from the original faith delivered through the apostles, so that we can hold fast to what is historic.
@@ancientpathstvThese are very interesting details to discuss. Thank you for compiling them. Coming from someone who is not EO, it seems very radical to say that EO reject the “Jesus of the Bible”. Some of the most humble Christians I learn from are EO, and some of the most prideful are “reformed” Christians. All are zealous for orthodoxy. We cannot be so quick to judge.
These very important issues drove me to study church history and after several years of study I joined the Orthodox church and that is my home now for over 35 years. Let this inspire you to go and see and open your heart to the historical original ongoing book of Acts apostolic Church.
Mormons also tell me to look for a "burning in my bosom," rather than following the clear teachings of God's Word. Instead of engaging their critics, they bear their testimony and insist they know their church is true.
@@ancientpathstv what is this burning in the bosom? I have no idea what you're talkin about. And if the teaching from scripture is really clear then why are there thousands of denominations? you know it's totally subjective interpretations.
@@pg618 The "burning in the bosom" is supposed to be a direct, subjective witness of the Holy Spirit to the truth of the Book of Mormon. They believe it trumps the Bible. The video dealt with the "thousands of denominations" argument. Did you watch it all?
No matter what flavor of protest-ism, post-renaissance so-called church that one belongs to they must ask the question where would you go to church in the first 1,000 years of Christianity? The other option is to believe that everyone everywhere all got it wrong until your little group came along and actually some people really truly believe that craziness.
It’s funny how hubris many Protestants are when they think they know the scriptures better than those who have the same mindset as those who wrote it. Think of the scriptures like a camcorder with all of your early family vacations. You are showing them to your grandchildren. Do the videos have the entirety of what was said done on those vacations? No, the have the highlights, and important moments. But as Paul said, there were some things that were written, and some things that were taught verbally in person. Yes we have everything we need in the Holy Scriptures, but the menu is not the meal. The meal is found in the Orthodox life which the Scriptures describe.
We document the lies of Eastern Orthodoxy, and the best you can offer in rebuttal is a bad analogy? Eastern Orthodoxy can't provide a single word of Paul's teaching other than what's in the Bible. It simply claims everything it does is based on oral tradition. We demonstrate that what you insist is was delivered orally contradicts not only the Scriptures, but the faith of the early church.
I pray God will open your eyes to the truth in His Word. I pray you'll stop playing games and actually engage the evidence. No one has anything to fear from the truth, but liars.
@@ivandemirevski7756 I'm seeing a lot of complaining and personal testimonies, but not a lot of engaging the evidence. The most substantive criticism I've heard is that it was supposedly "dishonest" to play a clip of Patriarch Kirill, because not everyone agrees with him. 🙂
@@ancientpathstv i'm from Russia and it's true that not all ortodox like patriarch, however everyday in church they have to confirm his authority in from of people and not critisize him. and i see many people from west who go to ortodox church write something that thay have Bible studies from ortodox church, however it doesnt ever happen here in Russia. never seen a ortodox preist preach on a street about repentace or invite someone to church, trying to call people to come or talk with them, or give bible. here in russia is only protestant churches who do that and ortodox priests call baptists and protestants a cult and herertics and false church. Also someone in baptist bible study told me that even in Russian Ortodox Church there are many diffrernt teaching and it's vary a lot from one priest to another. He said some even preach "saved by faith" but other ortodox say they are wrong.. i'm gonna watch the video now beceause i want to see what else is wrong with their techings and not feel shamed all the time anymore about not being in this church. And so i can have citical thinking about this propaganda
This looks very well done. I can already tell there are major issues with presuppositions (unproven assumptions) but this is to be expected, as Protestantism has its own ethnic/geographic biases.
@@easternmcg I'm not sure if a refutation is fitting honestly, this is why i speak of presuppositions. Given the presuppositions, things would appear correct. And a video about presuppositions is boring. I'd have to think on it.
@@greenacresorganics7922 Yes, I noticed the criteria for everything seemed to be incorrect (like not knowing why Hiera is not an ecumenical council). I almost feel that one would need a dialogue (i.e. where the filmmaker voices objections conversationally) and then the objection is dealt with. In documentary form its just too much to unpack honestly.
Seems like the gates of Hell did prevail against the Orthodox Church. This is what happens when you rely on tradition above Scripture. Orthodox Church is NOT the One True Church
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out. -Acts 3:19 Please go to a PCA Presbyterian or OPC Presbyterian church, or maybe a Rpcna/Rpc Presbyterian church If you can’t find one of the conservative presby churches then, maybe a Lcms or Wels Lutheran church. If you are Scottish, I recommend the Free Church of Scotland, they are Presbyterian If you are English I recommend the Free Church of England :)
@@houbertcanitio2199you quite literally just called holy scripture “a mountain of lies” see that’s what EO and RC don’t seem to understand. Every time you call us heretics you’re calling holy scripture heresy or you don’t understand sola scriptura. You cling to your traditions, you know, that thing the Pharisees used to nullify scripture. Who has the most “holy traditions” EO and RC. Now stay with me here, who argues against scripture more than anyone? EO and RC. Do you seriously think your church is infallible to falling into sin like the Pharisees?
let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the Word of God, in favor of that side will be cast the vote of truth.[1] Basil the Great, The Letters, Letter 189 (To Eustathius the Physician).
They want to believe in spiritual Platon and Aristoteles Philosophy instead of Christ. I want to follow Christ, so my authority is Christ. And his life and teachings are in the Bible. I don’t need philosophy from church fathers to believe in Christ.
So is yours and every single person in history. You choose to lay down your authority to the EO, he chooses to be a protestant. If you woke up tomorrow and chose to not be EO you'd leave.
Leave it to the guys that appeared in the 16th century to tell the church of christ how wrong it is. You can't keep the same narrative yourselves. If I went to 4 protestant churches, all will have different ideas about the bible.
Did you even watch the video? You engage nothing in it. We didn't "appear" in the 16th century, and Patriarch Bartholomew accuses Patriarch Kirill of promoting "pseudo-religion." How about dealing with what Jesus and His apostles actually said?
As Reformed Christians, we hold that the only true church is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. You might say that we aren't a part of it, but we hold that those who depart from the Divinely inspired Apostolic Witness, the New Testament, cannot be within the Apostolic Church. Our God, the Trinity, One in essence and undivided, established the canon. The Church can only passively receive it, but it has no authority to establish it.
@@TheReformedCatholic The question is: How do we *know* what are the Scriptures and what books are considered as such. We, the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church know it because the Scriptures are part of our Holy Tradition passed down by apostles all the way to us, but you as the ones that deny Holy Tradition can't have coherent and consistent knowledge of it. So, to answer your question, a first century Jew knew the teachings of the Church because the apostles teached him so, even before Gospels were composed. How you answer this question if the ultimate authority is the Scriptures, which hadn't even existed in that time?
@@PrenticeBoy1688 How do you *know* what books are part of the canon? Last time I checked, the Scriptures don't contain list of books that make the Scriptures.
@@elmitross The same way that the Jews knew what the canon of the Tanakh was: the ministration of the Holy Spirit. The Church is Christ's bride. She doesn't put words into the mouth of her Husband, she merely passively submits to His voice. She isn't infallible, only her Husband as a part of the Triune Godhead is infallible.There were no councils of the preincarnation Church that defined the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures. The early Church did, indeed, have a Bible: the Septuagint. Christ, Himself, held the Jewish religious leaders to account because they negated God's very written words by following unwritten tradition that was supposedly handed down from Moses. The Apostles did many miracles in Christ's name, just as the prophets of the Jews worked wonders to establish their credentials to speak as God commanded them. During their lifetime, their God-breathed testimony instructed the Church. Their written witness, the New Testament, is also God-breathed. The Holy Spirit chose those written testimonies and those letters of the Apostles to be preserved and handed down. If the Apostles said things other than what was Divinely preserved, then God has actively chosen not to preserve those things. The Reformed Protestant claim is that we, as members of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, have sought to return to the Apostolic part. We only have one reliable record of their teaching, a God-breathed record: the Holy Scriptures. Later additions and innovations to the Scriptures only serve to muddy the the crystal clear water of Divine revelation.
@@PrenticeBoy1688 Ok, how do you know which written testimonies Holy Spirit chose to be part of the Scriptures, and which didn't? Has He revealed that somehow, apart from the Holy Tradition, and the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church? If the Church is fallible, as you say, how do we know that She hasn't erred about canon? How do we know Holy Spirit at all, apart from Christ's Church? Your position is incoherent and your reasoning is circular.
I will be adding comments as I watch the video for the first time, as someone who was baptized into the Oriental Orthodox Church. I'm greatly curious about the claims that will be made. But so far I am in 3:52. I do not find how quoting the Russian patriarch, who already faces much criticism within Orthodoxy, to be a useful way to criticize the Eastern Orthodox church. Patriarchs are not seen as infallible, and it would be no different than to quote something silly that a protestant pastor might have said.
Like Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox claim their church is infallible, but that infallibility is hard to pin down. A charisma of office is supposed to keep patriarchs from misleading the church. This wasn't an offhand comment, but an official address to the church. I've had numerous Russian Orthodox tell me there was nothing wrong with what Patriarch Kirill said, while Greeks rant against him as a political hack. It shows the unity of the East is a joke. BTW, you'll see that I used an Oriental Orthodox priest to summarize the East's position on Jovinian. It was the best video available. Many ranted that I was showing my ignorance by including an Oriental Orthodox. I responded that he was a St. Vladimir graduate (like many Oriental Orthodox) and was stating the same thing any other Orthodox would say about Jovinian. It didn't stop them from ranting.
@@ancientpathstv strawman argument. The patriarchs are not mini Roman Pontiffs what so ever and they don't claim personal infallibility. You either don't understand orthodoxy or deliberately misrepresent it. You are a joke.
Why the Orthodox and R.C.C. have faith in Mary worship is beyond my comprehension. Clearly Scripture says: *_Luk _**_11:27_**_ And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked._* *_Luk _**_11:28_**_ But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it._* *_KJB_*
Trenham's point from 13:30f is worthy of pause and consideration. It is most certainly true that not only Paul, but all of the Apostle's said much more to those churches with whom they left the gospel. Yet similarly, in spite of Moses significant contribution to the Torah and Tanakh, even he surely said much more to the people Israel than is recorded therein. However that said, it is quit another thing to assert that somewhere in the unarticulated and inaccessible vault of oral tradition that there is anything additional AND essential for the core of the faith, not reflected upon clearly in the sacred scriptures. In Paul's letter to Rome for example, as in each of his writings, the fundamental gospel of the forgiveness of sins - reconciliation to the Father by the blood of the Son received through faith, is articulated over and over and even contra "prime objections" which he puts forward to discount in advance. The likelihood of him not including all of the essential aspects of this gospel in these letters, particularly in light of refuting those objections as well as contra emerging controversies in the various churches, seems exceedingly unlikely. Trenham's point looses viability. Remember, the gospel is quite literally the power of God unto salvation for all who believe; and there is only one...for even if he or an angel were to proclaim another, let them be accursed. Yet if that gospel is NOT contained fully in scripture, the sole authoritative source, rule and norm to which we have access, when the gospel that IS there is plainly stated over and over, it is hard to see how the promise of preservation could be true at all. Thank God that His promise IS true, and that the gospel is neither hidden nor lost!
It certainly is an interesting point. Yet I doubt that Paul, a Jew of Pharisaical tradition, the “Pharisee” of Pharisees in his own words would endorse icon veneration due to the Mosaic Law.
I hope noone is persauded by this biased cherry picking account of history, or the very poor understanding of the relationship of scripture and tradition and the particular phronema of Orthodoxy. Is this meant to be divisive in order to make way for a self-designed version of protestantism? I deem to remember someone important in the tradition of the church (predating the canon of NT scripture) suggesting we remove the log from our own eye before trying to remove the 2:12:52 splinter from the eye of another?
You hold a doctorate and use words like "phronema," and all you offer is name-calling? You need to actually document "cherry-picking" or else you're just blustering. Eastern Orthodoxy anathematizes everyone else as heretics, but you call us divisive for responding? I think the only ones who will be persuaded by you are those who love their lies. Sadly there are many who do.
@@Benjamin-bq7tcCalling someone a moron/stupid, qualifies you for a place in Hell... according to Matthew 5:22...but, hey, Scripture is pointless for people who love to kiss a man's hand... important to stop there😮
Please do also a video on clerical celibacy. The Bible is straight and clear that Apostle had wives, but yet Jerome think that they left their wife's, wich is totally unfounded in the scriptures.
@1:23:22 that's not directed at human beings. That's directed at the divine council, the elohim who have been appointed as gods over the nations (Deut 32:8) while he took Israel as his nation. In fact, the verse says it "you are gods" and will "die like men", it doesn't say "you are men, and will die as men" or "you will die because you're men". The penal substitutionary atonement you advocate is also incorrect. Christ's sacrifice was not one where he became sin or took our sins to the cross, Christ was sinless when he died on the cross. That's why his sacrifice is sufficient for us, because as a man he fulfilled the Law and thereby a new covenant between mankind and God has been established. This is some very basic stuff, I can't believe you missed that.
I can't tell if the goal is to deceive or are you really so deceived yourself. The video started poorly, but I stopped listening at 9:06 when you compare post schism councils of the original Church. Both halves of the original Church that apostles built, preach the same thing in many instances. If you chose to go against these teachings, what confidence can you have that it they who are in error and not you?
Instead of sneering and hurling insults, how about actually engaging the argumentation? We document more Eastern Orthodox lies in our most recent video. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
They are charging me with innovation, and base their charge on my confession of three hypostases, and blame me for asserting one Goodness, one Power, one Godhead. In this they are not wide of the truth, for I do so assert. Their complaint is that their custom does not accept this, and that Scripture does not agree. What is my reply? I do not consider it fair that the custom which obtains among them should be regarded as a law and rule of orthodoxy. If custom is to be taken in proof of what is right, then it is certainly competent for me to put forward on my side the custom which obtains here. If they reject this, we are clearly not bound to follow them. Therefore let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the Word of God, in favor of that side will be cast the vote of truth.[1] ] Basil the Great, The Letters, Letter 189 (To Eustathius the Physician).
I was a Protestant for most of my life and my parents were evangelicals and I went to a non denominational evangelical Church that had their services in gymnasiums and they rented out some buildings as well. The only thing we had was the Bible and our interpretations of it, if it wasn’t in the Bible it was a “tradition of men that nullified the word of God”. Church History wasn’t discussed, the Catholic Church was constantly ripped on as being “pagan” and so on and so forth. The Church services added nothing to my life, it was just all guys wearing suits and jumbo trons and Christian rock music, everything was so shallow. If I could sum up Protestantism with one word it would be shallow or minimalist, and that seems to be the intent of Protestantism, to get rid of all those pesky traditions, and to have nothing but the Bible. No icons, no mysticism, your entire faith is intellectual, not spiritual. This is why so many young people in the 1960s, after having all these spiritual awakenings, looked to the eastern religions for their spiritual sustenance rather than to their own Protestant traditions, because the Protestant tradition is all intellectual and non spiritual. Protestantism, in particular Reformed Protestantism, is like a dried up, stale cracker. It’s like old musty carpet that hasn’t been cleaned in thirty years, a flavourless meal that has no nutrition. After having my spiritual awakening, and becoming more involved in my non denominational church, I was searching for something more, something deeper and more contemplative, I wanted to know what the early Church was like and I wanted to study Church history because these things were not seen as important in the Protestant tradition I was raised in, because of the emphasis on “the Bible alone” so I started to dig deeper into Church history and eventually I was led to the Eastern Orthodox Church. And I discovered in the Orthodox Church all the spiritual sustenance I need, and a goldmine of Saints and deep mystical theology to study and emulate. In the Protestant tradition there are no Saints or Holy Men, all believers are considered saints, but in the Orthodox tradition you have these Holy people who lived radical and transformed lives for Christ. I will never return to Protestantism, how could I return to Protestantism? Once you discover these things you cannot look back. My Reformed friends want to attack me everytime I discuss these things with them. You will know a tree by its fruits, look at the fruits of Protestantism it’s a colossal failure. 40,000 denominations that all assert supremacy over one another, with shallow seeker friendly services, teaching worldly doctrines rather than the self denial and cross carrying teachings of Christ. People are serious about their religion and spiritual growth tend to be hungry for depth and mysticism in their spiritual life, what to the Reformed have to offer in this area? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in this area. It’s all about how awful you are as a human, and how Christ was slaughtered on your behalf to satisfy the wrath of a blood thirsty God, oh yeah a here’s my book shelf containing volumes and volumes of systematic theology and books explaining why the Reformed tradition is superior to all other forms of Christianity.” Honestly what a joke. Thank God I am Orthodox. I will die an Orthodox Christian!
What you described sounds more like Dispensationalism than Protestantism. If you watched the whole video, you would know they're not the same. We deal with its errors here: ua-cam.com/video/Zj8GXw-gbg0/v-deo.html You've gone from one unbiblical error to another and use the first to justify the second. Rather than "bearing your testimony," how about actually engaging the content of the video? Eastern Orthodoxy is no more the biblical faith than Dispensationalism. Both rely on fake histories.
@@lukebrasting5108 Your view of the Scriptures is not the same as Jesus or the apostles. The Scriptures were given to define and correct the church. Do you really think the church in Galatia could disregard Paul's letter, since they could claim apostolic succession?
Everything you've written resonates with me. I was raised at a young age in charasmatic churches because my parent's believed that many churches in the reformed tradition were "dry" as you've described and even void of the Holy Spirit. Later as a teen we attended non-denom churches that were influenced by John Piper, Tim Keller, MacAuther etc and I went hard into Calvinist dogma believing it to be a more rational and was sincerely actracted to their "Gospel-Centered" messaging. The only Orthodox person I knew growing up was my Romanian grandmother who had converted to Catholicism, probably because there were no Orthodox parishes near her. She was such a devout Christian though. Then I met a friend in college from Bulgaria who had such a love for the Lord and modeled her life in a very Christ-like way. I asked her what denomination she was and she told me Orthodox. I responded, "so you're protestant like me" and she denied it emphaitcally. It confused me, I was certain she must be AOG or Pentocostal because of her passion for Christ. Then, years later I was invited to an Eastern Orthodox church by my boss and was really amazed by the service. The protestant in me recoiled at the icons, the insense,and even the sign of the cross, but the biggest impression it left on my was the amount of scripture that was read throughout the service. I thought since they weren't protestant that they must be Catholics and I always assumed Catholics didn't value scripture like that - and yet here I was at this Orthodox church that had more scripture than any "Bible Family Fellowship" church I've attended. Then for years I didn't give any thought to it until recently when Orthodox priest came up on my UA-cam algorithm. His messages really put a fire in my spirit, awakening me from a long slumber I had felt. It's really hard to describe but I just felt like God was pulling at me. I still have this strange feeling in my belly that is drawing me to attend an Orthodox church, a feeling like when you had a crush on a girl and don't want her to know. I just hope these feelings aren't just some shallow attraction to the novelty. I've been praying that if it's really the Holy Spirit that is drawing me to the Orthodox church that He will make it known to me. I do not want to be led by my flesh, my attraction to new things, or God forbit an evil spirit. I just know that ever since I started listening to Orthodox sermons I have been so convicted of my sin and have a strong desire to pray, to be in communion with God, to be filled with his Spirit anew and I really hope this isn't some "phase" or fleating emotion that passes and leaves me back in my old ways. There are still some conflicting teachings I am questioning because I've held them and assumed them to be true for so long, but one thing I'm not questioning is how the Holy Spirit has used the sermons I've listened to to lead me to repentence and prayer, to a love for Christ and others, and a desire to be more like Jesus.
@@joeybwalsh There's a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is the way of death. Test everything by God's Word. The Spirit speaks by and with His Word, not against it.
When anyone in this comment section expresses his/her sympathy towards EO, you always compare them to mormons, gnostics etc. Do you understand that this is logical fallacy? Your entire line of argumentation is logically fallacious.
You really need to study logic more. A gratuitous assertion (proof by assertion) is a logical fallacy. Eastern Orthodox seem to think saying something without (and contrary to) evidence makes it true. It doesn't. You've just given another example. Mormons similarly ignore the Scriptures and historic evidences against their claims, and assert a mystical experience trumps all that. If you don't want to be compared to Mormons and other Gnostics, stop arguing like them.
@@ancientpathstvnobody wants to go scripture by scripture, they would rather argue then give us scripture. People with no foundation in the word instead just want to attack but never back it up by scripture.
Would love if you did a video solely on substitutionary atonement through the ages. It’s been a topic I’ve been studying a lot but am curious if you have any works on it or would recommend. God bless.
@@ancientpathstv Jay Dyer and David Patrick Harry will be MORE than happy to hold a public debate with you. Something tells me you wont dare go on with them to defend your position...
@@majorian4897 Wrong again! I'm going on Craig Truglia's podcast Friday. I've not heard from Dyer or anyone else. If the arguments in the video are just "Protestant propaganda," shouldn't you be able to rebut them with something more than name-calling?
@@ancientpathstv First of all the Orthodox Christians have been around a lot longer than even the oldest Protestant Church's so to suggest they don't practice the faith the way the oldest Christians practice it is just false the Orthodox Church's have not changed where Protestant/Catholic Church's have changed a lot. The Catholic Church has become more like you guys with Vatican 2 even though there is still a small faction called the Saint Pious X society overall they've changed a lot allowing sexual predators in as Priest and the Protestant Church's have changed even more you have WOMEN PASTORS that is forbidden and how many Protestant Minister's are there that are greedy con artist's from the mega church's etc. Christianity of the East (Orthodox) has monasticism where as Christianity of the West (Protestant/Catholic) has corrupted Christmas into believing in a man who flies around the world once a year and you've corrupted Easter into believing in a great big bunny rabbit. You also legitimize the marriage of a man with another man and a woman with another woman. Let's also not forget the Crusades and Colonialism all done by Christianity of the West not Christianity of the East and in more recent times you guys have waged wars against Islam in the 2000's and 2010's and now your waging a war on the Orthodox Christians with your proxy war against Russia so you are in no position to talk about the (failure of Eastern Orthodox).
Appeals to authority make for poor argumentation. If you bothered to watch the video, you'd see that we document his lies. We hope to be exposing more in an upcoming video on this channel.
@@ancientpathstv please. You're wasting my time. You appeal to your own fallacious authority that came about in the 16th Century. History is not on your side.
@@dustinneely We've documented our evidence from original sources. Instead of engaging the evidence, you're just claiming it's wrong. Engage the evidence and try to prove your case.
I am making a very slow review of your video. I was only able to make notes on a small portion this week, but I'd like to get your response to my comments. In this particular short review, I can only offer criticism, but am open to hearing what you have to say: 9:20 - You say the council of Hieria in 754 was rejected because it sounds Protestant. You’re not being fair here and are using empty rhetoric to sway your listeners. There were no “Protestants” to reject in 754. 11:05 - 15th C. council of Ferrara (Florence). 1438-39 Called by the Byzantine emperor to unite west and east against Islam. (ie., it was a political attempt to change doctrine for the purpose of getting military help from the Latins). Patriarchs from Rome, Constantinople, and reps from Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem were there. The council accepted supremacy of the pope, filioque, unleavened bread in communion, etc. Mark of Ephesus was the only one who refused to go along. Okay, but St. Mark was originally very enthusiastic about the council and wanted union. It was only during the council that he became opposed to the idea, seeing the novelties of the Latins. 12:26 - Russian Church declared itself autocephalous in 1448. Not sure why that’s stated here. It seems like this part is incongruous with the flow of your presentation(?) 12:40 - Gennadius Scholaris was mentored by St. Mark of Ephesus. They both had previously stood strongly for the faith of Christ against their own teacher, a former Metropolitan who had reverted to paganism. (This guy, Gemistos Plethon, was also at the Council of Florence at the request of the Emperor). I mention this because it shows their character-to stand for the truth of the faith even over someone they had once respected and from whom they had previously received instruction. They were men of character. You tie in St. Gennadius II’s resistance to accepting the Latin heresies with the fall of Constantinople. Wouldn’t you in other places praise such a staunch stand on the truth of the faith? Isn’t it better to lose the nation, or even the whole world than to capitulate to the novelties of Rome or any other false system? 12:58 - “Orthodox define a council as ecumenical based on whether they agree with it.” This is a big overstatement. I’ve already shown in a previous comment that there were no patriarchs at the “first” 7th E.C. at Hieria in 754, so that council is legitimately ignored. You can’t have a council when none of the bishops are there! That would be comparable to the LGBT Presbyterians holding an “Presbyterian Council” for your denomination. Would you recognize such a council? So your criticism here is unwarranted. Not saying I don't agree with you in other places-I'm just not in review of those yet.
I have to cover nearly 600 miles today to preach in three different places, so I'll try to get back to you in greater detail later. As to Hieria "sounding Protestant," the point we tried to make is that there have always been those who have stood against what Eastern Orthodoxy insisted was the "ancient faith." You don't find icons in the first centuries, or the exaggeration of Mary. When those things started to appear, men like Helvidius, Jovinian, and Vigilantius stood against them. These men have often been called "proto-Protestants" by men like Cardinal Newman. They were suppressed by the emperor, but their opposition never went away. It came to the fore during the iconoclastic controversy. Eastern Orthodox portray it as simply a reaction to Islam, but as demonstrated in the video, it goes much deeper than that. Eastern Orthodox start with what they believed in the eighth century and project that back through time. Their narrative doesn't hold up to scrutiny. As to LGBT, the mainline denomination suppressed those who called for Biblical faithfulness in 1936. We have a completely separate existence and view their denomination as apostate. This isn't as thorough as I would like, but I'm running out the door and didn't want to leave you waiting.
@CozlovSefulabaniBoss-us5yx The Council of Hieria did include bishops. The Patriarch of Constantinople had died before the council, but his successor and his successor ratified Hieria.
@@ancientpathstv Thanks for taking the time in your busy schedule to reply. And I hope the troll in this thread doesn't distract us! A quick follow-up: So if the LGBT crowd had a meeting to "dialog" with the "Orthodox Presbyterian Church", and no leaders of the OPC attended, could the LGBT supporters claim they had the support of OPC of their agenda and then force their propaganda on the OPC members? Of course not. It's the same with the Council of Hiera, which had no patriarchs, and other councils that had only a few patriarchs. Whether we like it or consider it an affront to our American Individualism, Christ's church is hierarchical -- has been from the start. How we address problems in the Church should not be that we go off and start a new church. We have leaders, and those leaders meet to discuss and debate. And in submission to the Holy Spirit working in the unity and bond of all, we come to unified decisions (through the Holy Spirit, through those over us in the Lord). And for all that to be legitimate, those leaders (the patriarchal bishops) must be present (or at least represented by a delegate).
@@choppy1356 There have been elders from the start, but you're asserting a hierarchy that you can't prove, even if you take the most extreme reading of Ignatius and ignore everyone else in the early church. The whole idea of "apostolic sees" was something that developed over time. Rome points to Irenaeus complimenting Rome's faithfulness as if this establishes papal primacy, but they ignore how Irenaeus also criticized the bishop of Rome. Constantinople's claim to authority was more as the "new Rome," than a real claim to connections to Andrew. Jerusalem wasn't named a patriarchate until the fifth century. Hieria, like every other ecumenical council, was called by an emperor. It wasn't a handful of bishops, but hundreds. The Patriarch of Constantinople was dead, but the council was affirmed by his two successors. It was the standard for decades. Second Nicaea was overturned by the Council of Constantinople, with the Patriarch of Constantinople present. The unavoidable fact is that councils contradict one another, but the Scriptures don't.
@@TheReformedCatholic Matthew 19:27-28 27 Then Peter responded and said to Him, “Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?” 28 And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the [l]regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on [m]His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Firstly do you agree that the saints rule and judge with Christ in heaven over us? 1Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. 2Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves. 😅 and even this is poorly understood by the Protestants who reject the divine council of God. I’d like any Protestant to explain the plain meaning of these texts. They cannot has been my experience.
@@TheReformedCatholic so why don’t you exegete the text and tell me, do the saints rule over you, in heaven? I’m open to an explanation that does not indicate that they rule over the faithful Since it seems to me that you interpret 12 tribes to mean the disbelieving Jews. Whilst I would say the 12 tribes are the kingdom of God and the saints rule and judge over us. And we owe them praise and honour as our rulers.
As an Orthodox Christian, you have created an evil video that points to known political actors within the Russian Orthodox church, and not all of Orthodoxy, and you've made claims that are unjustified. There are numerous Orthodox Christians which openly condemn statements by the Russian Patriarch, as well as, the self appointed Ukrainian Patriarch. You also have a very poor understanding of Orthodox doctrine, teachings, and scripture. Even Paul tells us, "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." 2 Thessalonians 2:15. So both Scripture and Tradition help us in growing our faith. You want to claim Sola Scriptura, well that is a quote straight from Paul's mouth. Why would Paul say this? Because at the time he wrote this letter to the Church of Thessalonica, there was no "scripture" except the Old Testament. None of the gospels had been written, neither the Book of Acts, no Revelation, none. It wouldn't be until several more years before the first, most likely the Gospel of Mark was actually written (some would argue their may have been one that proceeded this, but it is most likely lost to history). So when you say, Orthodox follow man-made traditions - what were all the churches that Paul and the Apostles preached to following? It was what these teachings, and the teachings of the early church fathers (those who were taught by the Apostles) that have become tradition. Further, several councils throughout Church history have been convened to determine "tradition", for example the Nicene Creed, the nature of Christ, the Holy Spirit, basically all the things that today we call church doctrine is completely based on Scripture and Church Tradition/Teachings. So, I say this in a very Christian way - before you point the finger at others so broadly, remove the log from your own eye! The spirit of division does not come from Christ, so our efforts are more successful when we strive to uphold the Gospel of Jesus. Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:27-28 I pray you seek Truth, for it will truly set you free.
Josiah Trenham said when Paul died he left them with "two little epistles." No, he left them with a complete Old Testament, and nearly complete New Testament. We documented our claims. Church fathers and ecumenical councils contradict one another. Please try engaging the content of the video with more than emotion and name-calling. We document even more Eastern Orthodox lies in our most recent videos. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html If what we're saying is wrong, try to document it. No one has anything to fear from the truth, but liars.
@@ancientpathstv I will pray for your immortal souls. According to you, all "Christians" prior to Luther went to Hell? I think your understanding of the Bible is twisted, your understanding of the accepted Church Councils is wrong (even according to Luther). Further, there was no New Testament when Paul was killed. It hadn't been completed yet. There were merely letters flying around between various early churches. I think you should spend more time studying and not guessing, because if you open your own study Bible, it will most likely give you the dates when the Gospels and letters were written. However, they weren't compiled together until much later. Like Jesus said to the woman at the well, "You worship what you do not know" and you point your finger at things you do not completely understand. There's nothing wrong with that, but before wrongly pointing your finger, you need to ensure your standing on biblically solid ground, because in these cases you're not. I don't know why these days American Christians feel they need to attack Orthodox Christians. You would not have the faith you practice today without the Orthodox Church holding to the original teachings of the Apostles and Early Church Fathers. Ask any pastor and/or theologian, and he/she will agree. I pray God blesses you and you spend more time spreading the Gospel instead of attacking fellow Christians because of the way they express their faith in worship.
This is a really well put together video. I have been looking into Orthodox a fair bit recently, however this video has also helped to anchor me into discerning between tradition and biblical teaching. I like the comparison you make of when Jesus rebukes the Pharisees of their traditional practices that were not supported by biblical teachings. This definitely opened my eyes to not just blindly accept traditions as being the "spoken" teachings passed down through the churches. Thank you for your perspective you have brought
Ive told many Catholic women and men that if "God" would, is calling me to become priest, that is the only objection i have to Catholicism because i want children and wife because naturally i feel the emotional and physical need to do so. I feel so much stress thinking how i am not going to get what I've longed for over decade what i truly needed the moment i was self exposed to pornography. Im Catholic but i just know priesthood is not for me. I dont see Protestantism as true neither.
Any church that has such a history of constantly moving the goal posts of redemptoion and sactification and justification etc etc rooting them not in any scripture , but is wild mysteries and myticisms- is just a cult- no matter how old or well established.
I don’t know, man. Here’s my story - in as short a format as I can make it to get my point across… I grew up in a non-Christian home. I started reading the Bible and felt a strong attraction to Jesus as a young adult and committed my life to Christ while in the Navy when I was 19. I have now been a Christian for about 25 years. I raised my kids in a conservative evangelical Bible believing church. I have, for many years, felt like there was “something missing” in my faith and was skeptical that the churches I have been exposed to could provide that “missing piece” I felt was lacking. I started studying theology and church history about 15 years ago, looking for answers. I found the early reformers and ultimately reformed theology. It really seemed to check all the boxes as far as my head could understand. It seemed much more logically consistent and biblical than the dispensational, fundamentalist type theology I had always been exposed to. But as time went on and I studied and spent time online on reformed message boards, I realized that most of the people I heard talking had all their ducks in a row as far as logical, biblical arguments, and liked to debate, but they didn’t seem like deep, spiritual people. That’s not what I’m interested in. I don’t care about winning theological debates. I just want to know our triune God on a deeply personal level. While listening to a church history class online I first heard of the desert fathers and the Eastern Orthodox Church. As I looked more in to it, I felt a strong attraction. I looked into local Orthodox churches and found one near me. I contacted the priest and took him out to lunch to ask some questions and attended a couple of vespers services since I still felt connected to my own church and wanted to attend it on Sunday morning. But - although I felt strongly attracted to Orthodoxy, I couldn’t bring myself to leave my whole family community and my wife was very against becoming Orthodox as well. Plus, as a Protestant I could still make many arguments against Orthodoxy. So I just kept trudging along in my life. Fast forward to now. My kids are adults and attending churches of their own. My daughter and her husband are conservative, reformed Presbyterians. My son and his wife go to a very contemporary styled evangelical church. My wife and I moved away from the city we raised our kids in to stay closer to where our kids now live. We are still trying to find a church in our new city but it’s been a couple of years and nothing seems right so far. I can’t deny it, my heart still yearns for depth and closeness to our Lord and something inside of me (The Holy Spirit?) is still telling me I’m not going to find that soul quenching water I am wanting in any evangelical church, and probably not in any old school Protestant church either. So, my heart just keeps pushing me back to Orthodoxy. There is a LOT I don’t understand about it, and a lot of things that are very difficult for me with my spiritual and cultural background. But I’m feeling more and more like I just need to put aside my own understanding and trust in an institution that has been in the soul mending business for two millennia and let the chips fall where they may. For others that are along the path, may God grant us wisdom!
Reformed soteriology has become popular in America, but sadly, it's all too often divorced from a Reformed ecclesiology and spirituality. Much of what calls itself Reformed in America is restorationist, schismatic, gnostic, and reactionary. The answer isn't to follow our feelings into the demonstrable frauds of Rome or Eastern Orthodoxy, but to embrace the fullness of the historic and Biblical faith. A message board like this is not a great forum for these kinds of discussions. If you want to give me a call next week, my number is on the church website.
@@ancientpathstv I agree. Not the best place to discuss deeper topics of the heart. I haven’t watched this video yet, but I will. I am truly just searching for truth and a path that will lead me to a closeness with God. This world is becoming more and more obviously not a place to put much hope in. I’ll check out your church website and other videos too. I appreciate the offer of a talk. I may just take you up on that!
Well, schucks. I just watched the whole video. Pretty convincing, I’ll have to say. It would be very hard for me to dive in head first into Eastern Orthodoxy after that… Maybe I’ll have to revisit my thoughts on early Protestantism… Maybe I moved past it too quickly? I’ll admit, I’m drawn by asceticism and the “other-worldliness” of Orthodox Church services, but at the same time I do recognize that ascetic practices have often been a way for people to somehow atone for themselves rather than just a way to draw closer to Jesus by retreating from the world. I guess I just wish there was more of a specific Protestant path to deep sanctification that I could be led on. I’ve been disappointed over the years with a lack of depth that I see first off, in myself, but secondly, in almost everyone around me, including people in ministry. That being said, I know it’s Christ’s righteousness alone I should look to, but still, it would be nice to have some deep sanctification that led to feelings of deep inner peace and tranquility. Christianity for me has been mostly an experience of the head, rather than of the heart, if I’m being honest. And it seems like it’s the same for pretty much every other evangelical Christian I’ve ever met. Anyway, good food for thought. I appreciate your offer for a phone conversation. I’ll most likely be in touch!
@@GenericHandle54321 Thank you for the note. Be sure to check out our other videos, especially the two followup ones on Eastern Orthodoxy: Cyril Lucaris: Calvinist Patriarch/Orthodox Saint: ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html Filioque: How Eastern Orthodoxy Anathematizes the Church Fathers": ua-cam.com/video/5mEMG4tkQf0/v-deo.html
Kyrill is merely stating that a soldier has not sinned. He has committed a righteous act in fulfilling his duty to his nation. You have to be wilfully ignorant here.
now that I've shaved off my beard, and lowered my total testosterone by 200ng/dl, I think I'm ready to accept the truth and convert to the ancient faith of protestantism. Just bought my first suit and tie, and am ready to sit in the pews and listen to an exhilarating 2 hour sermon
@@DoIoannToKnow Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5:19-23
@@TheReformedCatholic convenient to zero in on the one simple joke and dance right around the hard commentary points I made. Also you did not refute that heterodoxy is gay. Noted
Thank you for bringing these issues to the surface. I found the icon veneration issue uncomfortable and its useful to know the history behind it. I am at the point where every church has some malfunction holding them back. I hope to settle on branch sometime soon. Untill then ill keep on reading.
Test all things by God's Word. Remember no one has anything to fear from the truth, but liars. Check out our other videos and feel free to reach out if I can be of any help.
We took the time to hear Eastern Orthodox claims and engage its arguments. Like a Mormon, you ignore all the evidence and testify to what you want to be true. May God bless you with a hunger for the truth.
@@alek27e Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Gospel of Matthew 7:21-23
As much as i agree with the overall thesis of the video, refering to icons as "badly painted pieces of wood" is a low blow. I have a great appreciation for the artistic style of the east. Then again, im a lutheran, and we've always had a greater appreciation for art than the reformed.
@ancientpathstv , that I can understand. My problem with icons is not that they exist. It's that both Rome and the East command me to venerate them. I'm an aniconist, meaning I believe having art in worship is good as long as the art is not worshipped or distract from the worship.
@@EvanHuber-nv3kl When even the brazen serpent was worshiped, it proves that our hearts are natural idol factories and images in worship should be avoided.
@@ok-lq6tv If you bothered to watch the video, you'd see it's addressed, with testimonies of the church fathers on the matter. As shown in the followup video on the Filioque, even Roman Catholic scholar Richard Price admits,". . .the iconoclast claim that reverence towards images did not go back to the golden age of the fathers [i.e., 325-451], still less to the apostles, would be judged by impartial historians today to be simply correct."
@ancient path, Brother I have two questions: what is the orthodox priests name at 37:16 min? And what exactly does he say at 37:16? Does he say “john chrysostom never saw an iconostasis”? (Or iconoclast)? I’m sorry but my English is not the best and I want to translate it in german. I think he’s saying iconostasis right? Because he points to what is behind him.
That's Archpriest Patrick Henry Reardon of the Antiochian Orthodox Church. He's saying the iconostasis is a later development and that Chrysostom would never have seen one.
@@ancientpathstvthank you for answering! I just found out that Buddha is a saint in catholic and orthodox Christianity. (Ioasaph) I am speechless by the legends they use and frame it as “apostolic tradition”….wow.
@@ancientpathstv I'm surprised you know what the word anathema means. We're the only Church still proclaiming anathemas, 2,000 years later. Even the Roman Catholics have fallen to the soft times.
@@soare5182 You might want to consult the Merriam-Webster Dictionary. It defines an anathema as a ban or curse solemnly pronounced by ecclesiastical authority and accompanied by excommunication; the denunciation of something as accursed; a vigorous denunciation : curse. If you read through the comments, I've repeatedly been called a heretic and a demon. Instead of using prayer to ignore the lies of Eastern Orthodoxy, I'd prefer you deal with what's in the video and test all things by God's Word in the Bible.
You've really upset the Orthobros with this one. Expect Jay Dyer to do a 37-hour insult laden response, which won't actually address any of the issues brought up in this video.
We are not entitled to such licence, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings -Gregory of Nyssa All who ask receive, those who seek find, and to those who knock it shall be opened. Therefore, let us knock at the beautiful garden of Scripture. It is fragrant, sweet, and blooming with various sounds of spiritual and divinely inspired birds. They sing all around our ears, capture our hearts, comfort the mourners, pacify the angry, and fill us with everlasting joy. -John of Damascus The Holy and Inspired Scriptures are sufficient of themselves for the preaching of the Truth. -Athanasius of Alexandria We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith -Irenaeus of Lyons And let them remember that prayer should accompany the reading of Sacred Scripture, so that God and man may talk together; for "we speak to Him when we pray; we hear Him when we read the divine saying." -Ambrose Make knowledge of the Scripture your love ... Live with them, meditate on them, make them the sole object of your knowledge and inquiries. -Jerome We need not only read Sacred Scripture, but learn it as well and grow up in it. Realize that nothing is written in Scripture unnecessarily. Not to read Sacred Scripture is a great evil. -Saint Basil Whoever you may be, always have God before your eyes; whatever you do, do it according to the testimony of the holy Scriptures; in whatever place you live, do not easily leave it. Keep these three precepts and you will be saved. -Anthony the Great
It might be incredibly frustrating and disappointing to see how little engagement Eastern Orthodox are willing to participate in, but I've heard they actually have an incredibly rigorous and compelling counter-critique to every point you made. ... it's just only passed down through oral tradition 😏
Lord willing, in a few weeks, we'll have a new video out, detailing the story of the 17th-century Patriarch Cyril Lucaris. Their "oral tradition" about him doesn't stand up so well to the documentation that the modern age makes available. They rejected his attempts to reform the church, conspired with the Roman Catholics, falsely accused him to the Turks, and then claimed him as a martyr for Orthodoxy. They venerate the icon of the man who publicly denounced the veneration of icons.
Thank you! We made a followup video here: ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html We hope to have a third out soon on the filioque, and I'm working on the fourth and final one.
At 2:09:08 "Orthodoxy is whatever you want it to be" is so true. I once met an EO guy who didn't believe in hell. Their religion stands on the shifting sands of forgeries and the twisting of scripture to fit their doctrine. From what I've experienced as a Baptist, these EO people love to to show you their fathers, catechisms, and religious traditions, but when it comes to the Word of God, they run. The cop-out is that we don't have justification to interpret scripture. They fail to filter their doctrine through Paul's epistles (Who's the apostle to the Gentiles) Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for IT is the power of God unto salvation..." In 1 Corinthians 1:17 Paul said "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel." And when Paul recaps the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15, water baptism is never mentioned clearly showing that the gospel, which is apart from water baptism, brings salvation.
Do you know how many protestants that I have met of every flavour that have said similar things? Some that believe in hell, some that do not. Some that believe in women's ordination, some that do not. Some accept the rapture, some that do not. For nearly every split within the protestant world you will find people on both sides of every issue. Should I judge protestanism by them? By these individuals? Or is your view the only one correct within the ever splitting world of the protestant so-called faith? One Orthodox does not a theology make.
Hmmm - so you met a guy who didn’t believe in Hell and claimed to be EO - so now you are an expert. Perhaps he meant purgatory? Never the less, May God Bless you as we are all Christians and for the most part I keep my eye on my own plate and let God and Jesus Drive. I’m EO btw.
@@christinah128 I would concede that the guy for my example was an anecdote, but my point was that a person can twist scripture to teach any doctrine they want. Also, the historic view of the EO church up until the late 19th to early 20th century has been there is no salvation outside of the EO church.
One day, maybe even soon, all of us who profess faith in Christ will be undeniably united under the sword of persecution. The EO, RC, and protestant alike will be united because when persecution is global it will not matter one bit which sect any of us belong to, only who our Lord is. Declaring anathama on those who have faith in Christ is really a luxury the EO church takes for granted, because there will come a day when whether they like it or not they'll be considered by the world to be equal to the protestant. Also every time I hear the EO pray the anathama to the protestant prayer the ONLY thing I can think of is the parable of the pharisee and the tax collector. God have mercy on us all. Great Video!!!
@ancientpathstv John Chrysostom, an Eastern Father, was very familiar with Pauline thought. In Chrysostom’s sermon on Ephesians 1:4-5, he asked why God chose us: And why did [God] choose us? ‘That we should be holy and blameless before him.’ So that you may not suppose, when you hear that he chose us, that faith alone is sufficient, he goes on to refer to manner of life. This, he says, is the reason and the purpose of his choice-that we should be holy and blameless… Being holy is a matter of sharing in faith; being blameless is a matter of living an irreproachable life (Homilies on Ephesians, 1, 1-2). Lactantius (AD 240-320), a Western Father, continues this same thought: Labors that are endured and overcome all the way up until death, cannot fail to obtain a reward….And this reward can be nothing else but immortality (The Divine Institutes, Bk. III, ch. XII). And again: The spirit must earn immortality by the works of righteousness (Bk. IV, ch. XXV). Theophilus (approx. AD 180), an Eastern Father, spoke of a life of doing well and obeying God’s command to procure salvation: To those who by patient continuance in well-doing seek immortality, He will give eternal life everlasting life” (Theophilus to Autolycus, Bk. I, ch. XIII). “For man drew death upon himself by disobeying. So, by obeying the will of God, he who wants to can procure for himself life everlasting (Bk. II, ch. XXVII). Irenaeus, a Western Father, in his writings, Against Heresies, Book I, confirms the necessity of a life of love and holiness, as well as keeping our Lord’s commandments in order to receive eternal life: But to the righteous and holy, and those who have kept his commandments and have remained in his love…he will by his grace give life incorrupt, and will clothe them with eternal glory (ch.10:1).
I'm well aware. He gave the best presentation on Helvidius (who was pre-Chalecedon) and, like many American Coptic priests, is a graduate of St. Vladimir's Seminary. He's articulating the Eastern Orthodox position, even though he's Coptic.
@@ms.rainh20teachesart Fr. Abraham Wassif, like many American Captic priests, is a graduate of the St. Vladimir's Seminary, an OCA school. Helvidius was before the separation. Does anything he say contradict the Eastern Orthodox position on Helvidius? The simple answer is no, but Eastern Orthodox keep looking for excuses not to deal with the substance of the video.
In my observation, all Calvinists do is criticize anyone who is not a Calvinist. They really act as if they are the top of the food chain. Yes, there are some fine theological minds, but way too much criticism for those who are not reformed. Maybe instead of "critiquing " everyone whom you have disagreements with, focus on works of mercy and love. In my observation, those who are reformed really lack in this area, and would rather just have knowledge. I believe it was R.C. Sproul Jr. who said something along the lines of this... If you are looking for the best theological minds, look to the reformed, but if you are looking for works of mercy, dont look here. He was humble enough to recognize that very issue,
Are performing works of mercy and love mutually exclusive with proclaiming truth? Ironically, I think you are unfairly attributing a lot to Calvinists which is critical, harsh, and unloving.
Although this video has some good points (some of which I have no answer for as I am not a scholar), I still think Eastern Orthodoxy provides a better foundation than Reformed Christianity. The spiritual practice of the EO church is far superior than anything I found in Protestantism. Protestantism, generally speaking, has severed itself from the history of the Church; never did I hear about the lives of the saints, nor did I hear about the Ecumenical Councils. Beauty has also been stripped from many Reformed churches, which grieves me, as art can be used to glorify God and educate parishoners. The church calendar has been done away with for no good reason; the church calendar helps us Christians to remember and celebrate important events in history. I truly cannot go back to Reformed Christianity, it is spiritually malnourished. I think EO has the Gospel of Christ. My only critique of Orthodoxy is that it needs to evangelize more and needs to address parishes that have become 'ethnic clubs'. May God bless you.
Your experience doesn't sound very Protestant. Our congregation recites the Nicene Creed every week. As demonstrated in our most recent video, Eastern Orthodox anathematize Protestants and ask God that we be unforgiven in this life and the next, so instead of sharing your subjective opinion, how about actually dealing with the evidence? God has spoken, and presented a radically different gospel than Eastern Orthodoxy. You ignore Him at your peril. Here's the most recent video, which demonstrates even more Eastern Orthodox lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
@@ancientpathstv Well, sorry to burst your bubble but it was a 'Protestant experience'; I have attended Anglican, Presbyterian and Baptist churches, and the only one to recite the creed were the Anglicans (who didn't even follow their BCP - what a joke). I believe the anathemas are in place as a warning to those who willingly cause theological chaos and dissent. Do you think the resulting theological chaos of the Reformation is a blessing or a good thing? One of my biggest gripes with Protestantism is its proposal of 'Branch Theory', as it isn't compatible with the writings of the Apostles, nor the Nicene Creed, nor the Saints who succeeded the Apostles. Catholicity isn't found in multiplicity of doctrine, rather, it is found in unity of doctrine and the Eucharist (I found that out the hard way over the past few years). I simply cannot fathom the idea that Christ's church apostatised on fundamental issues at such a wide level, so early on, only for it to be 'corrected' by the Reformers centuries later. It calls into question the providence of God and Christ's words that the 'Gates of Hades shall not prevail'. One thing I have gathered from your video, and other critics of Orthodoxy, is that people don't like the exclusivity of the Orthodox Church. To me, that criticism makes no sense, especially when I hear it from Calvinists (such as yourself), as they are literally the most exclusive Christians in existence (James White is a prime example). All I can say about these 'lies', the ones you speak of, is that maybe you're just misinterpreting the data? I don't know. May God bless you and guide you.
@@kyrie-eleison-23 The "most exclusive Christians in the world"? I find that funny. Dr. White (a Baptist) has preached numerous times in our Presbyterian church and shared communion with us. Meanwhile Eastern Orthodoxy calls for me to be unforgiven in this life and the next. How about actually dealing with the content of the video?
Cool. Now, if i wanted to become protestant, which church should I choose? baptist, methodist, lutheran ?? or maybe presbyterian? Which Theology do should I adhere to? Do I just read the Scriptures and make up my own thing? If the dude from this video comments, please don't call me names such as "vile eastern orthodox" and then a link to another video. I genuinely want you to answer my question. Where is the Church?
I never used the term "vile Eastern Orthodox," and you need to hold Eastern Orthodoxy to the same standard you want to hold everyone else. Russians tell me the Greek Archbishop Elpidophorous is a heretic and Patriarch Bartholomew is a CIA asset, while the Greeks tell me Patriarch Kirill is a heretic and a pawn of Putin. Eastern Orthodoxy has its schisms and to demand a perfect church from others is hypocritical. Your demand would have served the Arians very well when they were in power, because not all the supporters on Nicaea agreed on everything. Historically Baptists and Methodists are restorationists who divorced themselves from the testimony of the historic church. Charles Wesley called Montanus and Pelagius two of the "holiest men" of the early church. All churches are a mix of truth and error, but Rome and Eastern Orthodoxy have so rejected the historic and Biblical faith to be no churches at all. Similarly, there are nominal Reformed and Presbyterian (Scottish Reformed) ones who are no more Reformed than they are Christian, but the Reformed churches that seek to hold everything to the light of God's Word are the most faithful. They neither divorce themselves from the historic church, nor blindly follow man-made tradition. I encourage you to watch our most recent video, where we demonstrate that was the conclusion of Patriarch Cyril Lucaris. It demonstrates more lies of the East, including in councils of "universal authority." ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
-Insert political dialectics and relate it to churches - Paragraph 1: Despite Orthodox Patriarchs being in schism and having different political ambitions, they would still adhere to the same Theology, so you're wrong about this and clearly misinterpret (don't know) what patriarchs are. They are certainly not infallible. Your claim about the supporters of nicea not agreeing on everything is true, yet there is still concensus of the council here, so I don't get your point Paragraph 2: What about Lutherans and presbytarians and the other 4739182272 denominations, you only mentioned two. Also, you are only giving me information here and it means absolutely nothing to me, what's your point dude? I mean if you want to speak about Montanism, imagine the kind of prelest montanists had when they believed things like: "A criticism of Montanism was that its followers claimed their revelation received directly from the Holy Spirit could supersede the authority of Jesus or Paul the Apostle" Or Thus, the Phrygians (Monatists) were seen as false prophets because they acted irrationally and were not in control of their senses.[47] Also Montanism couldn't agree on whether they believed in a Trinity or Monarchianism. Cool story Charles, I really could care less about what he thinks Paragraph 3: So now YOU have the standard and authority to judge as to which church is the most faithful, yet in the same paragraph you say that every church has a mix of truth and error. I thought Jesus only spoke of One Church? How can a church have error? I thought the gates of hades wasn't meant to prevail against Christ's Church? How can you know if a church is faithful or how do you quantify this? Which one of your 37382927 denominations is the most faithful? I would seriously like to know.
@@ГрозниВетар What I pointed out weren't just political, but theological differences, where Eastern Orthodox accuse one another of being heretics. If you'd bothered to watch the whole video, you'd know there aren't 4739182272 denominations. So watch the video and ask real questions, instead of just offering mockery.
@@ancientpathstvQuestion, what is the older scripture or church? There is only one church and its The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, known as orthodox and all u other don t have nor historical nor theological bases in apostolic church and for why u should try to answer first question. If u think u could without tradition have proper reading of scripture u are not only heretic but dmb too. Judeism is too nothing without written and unwritten tradition the scripture alone would be meaningless historically on material basis and theologically u could not decipher
@@nebitno5054 Did you watch the video? Jesus refuted the Jews oral traditions on the basis of the Scriptures. In the second century, Irenaeus said the Gnostics made your argument against the Scriptures.
When oral traditions add or conflict with Scripture that’s a problem for me. I am justified by faith alone in the finished work of Jesus on the cross where he suffered for my sin because I was guilty and he was the perfect Lamb of God who took away my sin. By faith in his shed blood I’m washed and cleansed…forgiven. Scripture says he became sin for us (2 Corinthians 5:21.)
The fact that the Scriptures are God breathed means no oral traditions of humans that came after the Bible can ever supercede or conflict with the Bible...
Lol, all of these Eastern orthodox people are just giving emotional "arguments" and absurd claims.
big time they do that all the time.
I was orthdodox before but after seeing your video I am still a orthdodox.☦️
@@ancientpathstv Well,english is not my first language but I wanted to say what I think.From what I have expirienced in orthodox church after holy mysteries, gives me confidence to say that Holy Spirit is in this church,I don't know for Catholic church and no one can tell me different.What I felt after my first confession can not compare with anything from this world!Of course this is something very personal but I have to write this because I know It's true what I wrote.I'm sorry if I don't write correct words.
@@norah327 You're ignoring not only everything in the video, but what Jesus and His apostles said in the Bible.
@@ancientpathstv No I don't.I don't want to argue with you.I respect what you said in the video but I don't agree.
@@norah327 To allow one self to see the errors of some traditions that are held by either our church or others is not the same as rejecting what God has done in your life. Nothing limits the Lord from ministering to you when you come with humbleness of heart and confess before Him, and His Spirit reaches all who are lowly of heart and calls upon the name of the Lord.
We are many who have been blessed by the Lord and experienced His love and forgiveness, of all branches and streams of Christianity, something to be glad for!
However, to close ones eyes to the failures and lacks that are, in spite of our experiences, present in our churchly practices and our understandings of the history of the faith and Church, is not the way to continue.
We have the tendency to cling on to the instruments through which we experience grace, and the love of the Lord Jesus Christ, but we will do well in remembering that it is the Lord Himself we should cling on to, and not the instruments and human mediators. Stay honest to what is true, and when the truth is revealed do not reject it because of what is familiar and seems safe.
God bless you, sister
☦️
I am not sure how one can say that the Council of Hieria is rejected by Orthodox because it sounds Protestant. Doesn't your video show that the 7th Ecumenical Council was established prior to Protestantism? If you are saying that Orthodox today pick and choose which councils to accept based on their reaction to Protestantism it reveals a deeper misunderstanding and misrepresenting of how tradition functions in Orthodoxy. There is nothing in your quote of the Council of Hieria that sounds Protestant. It speaks of accepting what was handed down from the earlier councils and not of searching the Scriptures as the final authority. Just imagine an OPC General Assembly saying the same thing about these first six councils and you will understand my point.
Also, the icons are just a manifestation of an underlying orientation to the saints that wsa held by both iconoclasts of Hieria and the iconophiles of the 7th Ecumenical Council. Both councils believed in the intercession of the Saints - a dogma that was ubiquitous and pre-Nicea. The iconoclasts believed what no Reformed Protestant believes - that holiness is mediated through material things like water, the Eucharist and the symbol of the Cross. This is the failure of Protestantism.
The Apostles did not just leave us Scripture, they imparted their very lives to their successors. That way of life was passed on by the Fathers and preserved by the Church. I spent over 20 years in Protestant churches. The only time the Fathers and Saints were mentioned was to criticize them. If anything good was mentioned about Athanasius or Polycarp or Augustine it was only with qualification that they were in error on many points. For example, Protestants would not accept the views of Athanasius put forth in his Life of Anthony so why should we take seriously anything they quote from Athanasius to make him sound like a Protestant. There is no mechanism in Protestant churches like yours for honor to the Fathers because they don't belong to you. You don't receive them. Sadly, you are orphans. That is the failure of Protestantism.
The Council of Hieria was the first to address icons and declared John of Damascus a heretic. They didn't have the label "Protestant," but, like those who would later be called Protestants, they argued from Scripture. The Second Council of Nicaea declared John of Damacus a saint and relied on his fake history of oral tradition.
Just as it is fallible today, the church has always been fallible. There are fathers who are more and less faithful to the Scriptures. That doesn't mean we ignore them. Our congregation recites the Nicene Creed in every worship service. None of the early fathers support icons or your gospel. You can make all kinds of gratuitous assertions to the contrary, but that doesn't make them true.
@ancientpathstv Please explain... what is the point of reciting a creed if you don't belong to the body that formed that creed and you reject everything else that they stood for? Why use a creed at all?
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
As a confessional Lutheran, I do in fact reject the Calvinist teaching of iconoclasm. However, I am in agreement on the matter of rejecting iconodulia as well. My understanding is that images of Christ and the saints can be helpful in prayer and devotion if witnessed, and can rouse piety in a man upon laying eyes on it, just as the same would be for one who sees an image of the Cross of our Lord. Yet, I would also never say it is necessary that these images be made not venerated. It’s a happy middle, as far as I’m concerned.
Frankfurt > Hieria and Nicaea 2
Reformed theology-qua-reformed theology is not inherently iconoclastic. Between icondulia (the position of the 2nd Nicene creed) and iconoclasm, there is a middle position-- Aniconism which distinguishes between religious art which can be legitimate and have pedagogical value on the one hand, and icondulia which is the theologically imposed necessity of venerating images under the threat of anathema, which it rejects. Many reformed folks (myself included) fall into this camp. Your comment reeks of gross reductionism.
I am a confessional Lutheran as well. Our position would often be called the “Carolingian Position.” As you outlined above, images and art are a wonderful and useful tool for our faith. We do not need to destroy them or see them as a necessary component of worship and veneration. The truth is not iconoclasm or iconodulia.
2nd Nicaea pronounces anathema on all who will not venerate the sacred images, on all who have doubts about doing so, and on all who lack true affection for the icons. 2nd Nicaea adds an unScriptural requirement for salvation
Would you be willing to participate in public discussion to see if this presentation can withstand further scrutiny?
This
I've already agreed to an interview with an Eastern Orthodox apologist.
@@ancientpathstv Would you mind sharing who you will be interviewing with?
@@TikhonFread Craig Truglia
@@ancientpathstv Oh...
I think what protestants are trying to say to the EO camp is, we believe that you dont practice in ways that we say you practice. For example, when asking most EO people, ' are those outside of the EO church not saved?" Most Eo people I have talked to will say, yes they could be but that is for God to decide. Truthfully, I agree with that, that is for God to decide. But the problem is, is that you have ecumenical councils that say the opposite. Basically saying that if you are not part of the EO church then you are not saved. So if you claim to be the true church. Then you must believe what they believed back in the day. If a modern EO person says I can possibly be saved outside of the EO church, then my simple response is that you do not even know your own history.
Be sure to check out our latest video on Patriarch Cyril Lucaris. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
The quote mining in the first 5 minutes is already laughable.
Irenaeus, in the same book III of Against Heresies, affirms tradition passed down by the presbyters and clergy. In Chapter IV of Book III he even more clearly lays out how the Church keeps the truth and apostolic tradition.
Unbelievable.
The rhetorical games you're playing are laughable. "Quote mining" and "cherry-picking" are terms used when people can't actually demonstrate that a quote is taken out of context. You've set up a straw man, where oral tradition is equal to Scripture or ignored. It's neither. Irenaeus said what he said. The quote calls the Scriptures the "pillar and ground of our faith" and flies in the face of those who want to subordinate them to traditions that contradict them and one another.
This point is utterly humiliating, and laughable, Eastern Orthodox quote mind 7th Century quotes made by Heterodox to support their ideals. Not only that but there are whole letters written about the idolization of icons (Letter LI. From Epiphanius, Bishop of Salamis, in Cyprus, to John, Bishop of Jerusalem) which is mentioned in this video if you even watched it.
@@ancientpathstvSt Paul said the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. Logic itself will tell you this.
@@gsnow2526 Do you think Irenaeus was oblivious to Paul's statement? Do you think it somehow negates what he said? Please stop playing games.
@ancientpathstv exactly. Hence, when you read more of Ireneus you see his acceptance of Apostolic tradition and Apostolic sucession
UA-cam channel called "ancientpathstv" being run by a Presbyterian.
The irony is not lost on me
You are not ancient either. You are a follower of 7th century John of Damascus. You could even follow Muhammad by your own standards.
Go ahead and mock. Keep telling yourself Eastern Orthodoxy is what has been believed everywhere, always, by all. Ignore all the evidence to the contrary. One day you will stand before a holy God and answer for having loved a lie.
@@mmore242 Did you watch the video?
@@ancientpathstv Right, and God revealed the totality of the true Christianity in the 16th century by a 20 year old lawyer, ordained by nobody, self-appointed corrector of apparently over a thousand years of error. Good luck entrusting your salvation to that. Not all that different than the claim of the muslims that the crucifixion was a phantasm that Allah was perfectly happy to let people believe in and be damned for 600 years for no reason but his own glory. Not that different from Calvinism, in fact you think God turned a blind eye for longer.
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
At around 13:10 the narrator compares St Athansius and St Make of Ephes to Luther and Calvin, satjng that their opposal to councels is the same as as Luther's and Calvin's. The big difference is that the first were part of Christ's church and were already proven teachers and honored with the highest rank of bishops and the second were 2 people who had 500 years separation from the truth and never came to know Orthodoxy. The comparison is just not equal.
The point is that councils have erred. They contradict not only the Scriptures, but one another. The ultimate authority isn't Athanasius, Luther or Calvin, but God's clear teaching in the Bible.
@@ancientpathstv Councils led by heresiarchs are false (As Saints Athanasius and Mark of Ephesus were against) Do you not get that?!
But the rejection of all councils as binding as Luther and Calvin resorted to is going overboard beyond the recognition of false councils
@@willtheperson7224 Did you actually watch the whole video?
@@ancientpathstv I'm watching it, and I find this video on par with the Dimond Brothers videos against us when it comes to academic dishonesty
@@willtheperson7224 Name-calling and avoidance of the evidence are signs that what you're defending is a lie. How about actually engaging the documented history and arguments from Scripture?
I don't understand why you used a clip at the 1:01:19 of a Coptic priest. The Oriental Orthodox aren't even in communion with the Eastern Orthodox.
I used it because it nicely summarizes the Eastern position on Helvidius. Helvidius was pre-Chalcedon. Like many American Coptic priests, Fr. Abraham Wassif is a St. Vladimir's graduate, who's articulating the same thing an Eastern Orthodox priest would say, but because it's coming from a Copt, it's supposedly suspect. It demonstrates that Eastern Orthodox will grasp at anything to claim I know nothing and ignore the overwhelming evidence against their position.
@@ancientpathstvI see. I'm Oriental Orthodox and watched your video fully (took 3 days to get through it all). Good production and editing I will give you that just a marathon to watch.
@@famicommike9014 Thank you! There was a lot of information to pack in. 🙂 I could have done a whole lot more, but I was trying to crystallize the main issues and yet deal with them substantively. I've had Eastern Orthodox not only complain about Wassif, but even the clip of Patriarch Kirill. 🙂
@@ancientpathstv well if it means anything, the EO don't even recognize the Oriental Orthodox churches like the Syriac, Coptic, Armenian, etc etc as Orthodox since the Council of Chalcedon.
On a funny but odd note, My Greek Fat Wedding the movie of all things did introduce me to Orthodoxy back in 2009.
14:50 - What??? Paul did not write or leave a bible, he wrote like 7 letters not the Gospels or Revelations. The Church tells us what is Canon. 19:15 - Refuted by Joshua 7:6 - Thanks for selling me on Orthodoxy
Paul left a complete Old Testament, a complete Pauline corpus, the Book of Acts, and probably most of the rest of the New Testament. You seem to think the church waited centuries before knowing what came from the apostles. Irenaeus in the second century didn't. He named all four gospels, quoted from them, and rejected the counterfeits. Try again.
All that is a lot more than the "two little epistles" Trenham was describing.
@@ancientpathstv he did not leave a complete old testament, there was no uniform Old testament amongst jews - secondly Irenaeus quoting the gospels doesn't is a non sequitur to then take the view he identified what the whole canon was - disingenuous and bad argumentation
Seems to be a very honest evaluation of the councils and errors and contradictions that have occurred still watching. Thank you for this.
Tragically, like the Judaism of Paul’s time, Orthodoxy fails to accept the fact that there are people of true faith outside its own sacred doors. ✔️
join the broad road
@@danube466 I stand firmly behind my assessment of the exclusivity of the Orthodox Church. Be assured that there is a small believing remnant in every Christian denomination. ✔️
I am a former Catholic, now Lutheran. I spent many months weighing the claims the EO tradition makes, and like you, I can't help but see they fall flat in the weight of historical evidence.
I find it ironic that so many "Orthobros" accuse protestants of being emotional when discussing Orthodoxy, but they retreat to the exact same emotive nonsense when faced with well-argued criticism.
I think, on the anathematizations the Catholics (until V2), Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox churches make, Joshua Schooping, an ex-Orthodox priest and current Lutheran paster, has a very strong response:
"The absurdity of what could perhaps be called the Imperialist ecclesiological position (which includes the Romanist and Orientals together with the Orthodox) is made all the more clear when one must realize that each schismatic branch says substantially the same thing about themselves being right and the others being wrong, and using the same kinds of proofs, thus putting impossible pressure on those outside the Church to be able to make accurate enough historical judgments concerning the vicissitudes of Church history in order to enter the right, salvific Church.
According to this extreme and externalist ecclesiology, a person outside the Church, and therefore a non-recipient of God’s saving grace, could not reasonably or perhaps even in principle make such a determination.
The genius of Protestantism, however, is that despite what is claimed by the Orthodox, Romanists, and Orientals, Protestants are not in principle schismatic or factious. Why? Because they do not presuppose in the midst of inevitable differences between administrative and organizational bodies that those outside of their administrative bodies are necessarily outside the Church considered as the Body of Christ."
The ecclesiological position of these churches is untenable, impossible at face value. Three churches and their schismatics (Old Calendarists, SSPX, etc.) all make identical, mutually exclusive claims about their veracity, and they all proclaim councils which agreed with their theological presuppositions as Ecumenical.
Joshua is a friend and reviewed this before its release. Please be sure to check out our followup videos on Cyril Lucaris and the Filioque. Lord willing, The Patristic Roots of the Reformed Faith is coming soon.
Thank you so much for this brilliant exposition of church history and the power of the scripture alone. I considered Eastern Orthodoxy for some time as I was drawn to the aesthetics and the way it advertises itself as taking the faith more seriously, but the de-emphasizing of the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement and the heretical asceticism that is viewed as a virtue in the tradition are unacceptable. This context on the history of orthodoxy and the twisting of the truth that has slowly corrupted the movement is so important, as many in the west who are ignorant of this history are in danger of falling into this sect that attributes the teachings of man to God. Don’t be discouraged by the hate and slander coming from the orthodox community. I pray that they would listen to your points and that their eyes would be opened to the ways in which their doctrine lacks a firm foundation in the word of God. Please continue to speak the truth of the scripture with boldness🙏
Thank you for your kind encouragement!
I think I already commented but I have to say what an amazing job you did. This great work of love and compassion educates people from going into the darkness of Eastern Orthodoxy! Soli Deo Gloria!
Thank you! Soli Deo Gloria!
Amen to that! 7 years i spent in this Gospel of asceticism which is no Gospel. It almost led me to renounce my marriage and hed for Athos! Praise God for his Glorious true Gospel of Free Grace.
@@veritasquidestveritas amen. Glad u escaped the lies. I come from an orthodox background and i feel so free now that im just a bible believer
You definitely wouldnt debate Jay Dyer and Craig from Orthodox Theology will come out with a response to your absurd video.
So if I go on Craig's podcast, would you actually deal with the arguments in the video, or would you keep moving the goalposts?
Why would he need to debate them? It seems the evidence in this video speaks for itself. Why don't you try refuting it? Because you can't.
Oh Jay Dyer is Eastern Orthodox now, he's grifted place to place so much it's hard to keep tract.
@Veganismdebunked812 Ah yes. The same Peter Dimond who pauses videos and concludes that the weird expression of the person on the video is proof they are possessed by demons. Clearly an intellectually and spiritually inclined person worthy of Dyer's time.
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
Brother, this is why Protestantism is replete with 12,000 denominations. Cherry-picking tradition and selective interviews to create your edit is unkind and full of errors. At 19:25 it's clear you're not a Greek speaker, typing out Greek letters doesn't help you understand veneration, I've seen protestants venerate their dessert more than I appreciate the legacy of the saints passed over, veneration isn't spooky, it's remembering the way CHRIST worked through human hands for the cause of the Kingdom.
If you want to be true in your critique you should allow these interviewees a right of reply to your curated edit.
Do you really believe me to be a brother in Christ? If so, how do you reconcile that with your church anathematizing me and calling for me to be unforgiven in this life and the next? If not, why are you calling me brother?
Your accusations of "cherry-picking" are dishonest unless you can demonstrate actual misrepresentation. Sadly, Eastern Orthodox just keep parroting the term, thinking it makes all the evidence go away.
If you bothered to watch the whole video, you'd see that your accusation of 12,000 Protestant denominations is also a lie. Eastern Orthodox are counted over 500 times in the 45,000 denominations typically cited. Roman Catholicism is counted 370 times, because they count each rite in each country once. Cultists, schismatics, and apostates make up the vast majority of the rest and are not Protestants.
Instead of dishonestly looking to ignore the evidence, how about honestly trying to disprove it?
@@ancientpathstv Are you really trying to pardon the mass division within greater Protestantism? Possibly the worst witness in all of Christendom.
You should consider the beam in your own eye brother
I havent seen any Christian take there dessert to worship . You fail again.
Your translation of Patriarch Kiril is faulty. At 1:23 you translate it as “Mutually Destructive”, Междоусобный or Mezhuusobnij has a connotation of “between brethren” or an internal feud between a king and a pretender to the Throne see ru.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Междоусобная_война_на_Руси
The death in war he’s speaking of has nothing to do with atonement; the point is that as Christ said “there is no greater love than to give your life for one’s friend”. The point is that if you go to war for this reason in your heart (of which only God really knows), it will count to your fulfillment of that commandment from Christ. The Christian Church is not pacifist and this coming from the Presbyterians is laughable. Your entire tradition was intimately involved in the English civil war and Scottish irredentist movements.
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
The Orthodox Church in the US is seeing an increase in new converts while the Protestant denominations are in decline. As Protestants get more woke, the faithful look for a more ancient authentic faith. They start attending divine liturgical services and they find a home in Orthodox Church. At my parish many young men seeking the truth convert and they bring their families. So we are growing. My recommendation is attend a local parish and experience the Orthodox Way for yourself.
Here in Germany people are leaving Catholic and orthodox churches en masse, only the Bible only/born again Christians are getting more and more every day.
@@mkbr1992 and Protestants are growing more than any other tradition worldwide including orthodox countries. We can’t confuse the online orthobro fad with reality.
Great job of avoiding all the issues in the video.
@@eremiasranwolf3513 I mean, aren’t you kind of larping as a Protestant by trying to fit in with them by condemning the Orthodox, despite being a Papist?
Also, how is that Papist prophecy by a literal child about Russia’s conversion to Papism going?
@@mkbr1992 The overall amount of the Orthodox can still be dwindling overall while the amount of converts increases. These aren’t mutually exclusive.
I know that in my parish last year we received more converts than any other year in the history of our parish.
to everyone in the comments there is no need to be disrespectful you guys are free to debate and refute us but please dont be rude ☦
I was once a protestant and once I looked into church history I am now on my way to being an Orthodox Catechumen! All Glory to God!
Mormons say the same. Instead of listening to God's Word and the historic testimony of the church, they invent their own history and bear their testimony. I pray for them, as I pray for you, that God will open their eyes, and they'll stop loving lies.
@@ancientpathstv Baptists say it Presbyterians say they are the original church. So do Amish and Pentecostals. The Orthodox and Catholics can trace their roots to Jesus and Not John Calvin and John Knox.
@@ridingthecosmos6273 We documented the contrary in the video. Instead of engaging the arguments, you just bluster.
@@icxcnika2037 Rant, rant, rant. If you could answer the evidence you would, but you can't.
Eastern Orthodoxy Documentary is solid 🪨 I'm not Prostestant I'm a Catholic who loves Jesus Christ & that's What the Church Father's wants. Jesus Christ Said to follow the will of the Father. Eastern Orthodox are becoming National isolated Churches supported by Russia, the American Orthodox doesn't agree with ROCOR. Schism since 2018 in Eastern Orthodoxy just facts. 🙏🗝️🗝️
I’ve yet to hear the Gospel from an orthodox Christian
they deny penal substitutionary atonement, original sin, grace along by faith alone
of course they're not gonna have a true gospel
@@jalapeno.tabasco Yeah, we reject heresy.
@@Benjamin-bq7tc imagine calling the gospel heresy...
@@Benjamin-bq7tcYou really like a BIG FAT LIE
Orthodox share the gospel every single service. All their services are lead from scripture directly and they read the bible as a CHURCH to avoid people making their own iinterpretations, they also partake in the eucharist. When christ said, this wine is my blood and this levant bread is my flesh, he wasn't joking. Prostestants think that is "symbolic" but not really his flesh nor his blood, in scripture, christ never said " oh btw, this is symbolic". It's by partaking in the eucharist that the body of christ enters you and you become part of the body, prostestants have grapejuice and gluten free bread....
Leave it to the Presbyterians to do actual research 👏
@@IanErickson-z2ggo cry idol worshipper
@ 9:15 you say the attendance at the Council of Hieria in 754 was greater than five of the previous six ecumenical councils. How many of the patriarchs (or representatives of the five patriarchates) were at this council?
The Patriarchate of Constantinople was vacant during Hieria. Jerusalem, Antioch, and Alexandria were under Muslim control, and the emperor who called the council (every ecumenical council was called by one) no longer ruled in the West, so Rome was not sought. Eastern Orthodox claim this makes it obviously a "robber synod." The reality is very different.
There were no patriarchs at the Jerusalem Council, but apostles. Rome, Antioch, and Alexandria claimed to be apostolic sees very early and to hold some kind of apostolic authority, but the idea of patriarchs developed over time. Chalcedon as "the new Rome" was declared a patriarchate in the fourth century. Jerusalem in the fifth.
Eastern Orthodox also ignore that the later Council of Constantinople that affirmed Hieria was presided over by the Patriarch of Constantinople.
@@ancientpathstv Patriarchs are bishops. Bishops assumed the ministry of the apostles in the handing down of the faith, as those entrusted by the apostles. So the point that there were no bishops at Jerusalem, only apostles, seems to fall flat. For example, you're not an apostle, but I assume you make some decisions in your church? I assume some Reformed people get together and decide together, in a conciliar manner, that they're not going to go along with the LGBT agenda. None of those who chose to split from the corrupted Reformed churches were apostles.
By 754, Rome, Antioch and Alexandria were well established as part of the five patriarchates. Same with Chalcedon and Jerusalem. Ecumenical Councils are conciliar. It is unthinkable that one bishop (or no bishops) could decide for all the others. As with the early church, there is a hierarchy in Orthodoxy. No one makes up their own mind, apart from the Body of Christ, apart from presbyters or overseer (bishop). It's unthinkable in Orthodoxy for "everyone to do what is right in his own eyes".
So this specific point---i.e., your reliance on the Council of Hieria as the true 7th Council--is a bit weak. Also, the mention of interference by emperors (and empresses) avoids the fact that Protestantism was urged on by political reformers. Much like George Soros and the global oligarchs are influencing all the churches today with social justice activism and the sodomite agenda, the Church has always been pushed this way and that way by external, secular forces. The same can be said for Israel in the OT. We all live in a Real World, governed by God and his Providence.
@@ancientpathstvThe answer is zero. And yet somehow they made it to Nicea II, 33 years later, when the situation was not much different if you’re arguing geopolitics was prohibitive.
Let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
@@ancientpathstv Ya the Patriarch appointed by the iconoclast emperor who got rid of the Patriarch before.... How many other Patriarchs were there?
@@cayetanohuett9037 The whole point is that councils contradict and were all tainted to varying degrees with political intrigue. Some were more faithful, while others were heretical. Eastern Orthodox appeal to a triumph by the sword in the eighth century, while ignoring that God eventually gave the whole Byzantine Empire over to destruction.
The Scriptures don't contradict. They are infallible. The church isn't.
Give me a break....smh i converted from a protestant reformed tradition many year's ago to orthodox faith. That was back in 2003. Then that reformed tradition was split on minor doctrinal disagreements, now its over what is a trans and gays being legally married. Smh. I thank God im Orthodox today. Thank you Lord. Lord help those struggling to leave false denominations to find true Church in Orthodoxy Faith.
Mormons also appeal to divisions among others and "bear their testimony" as a way of ignoring that their church is a lie and their gospel unbiblical. How about realizing that schism and heresy are both sins?
orthodox church never schismated though
thank goodness someone with common sense
@ancientpathstv that's fool hardy to say as any Christian should know The Mormon Organization is heretical to begin with and not Christian. Why compare apples and oranges? But the fruits of Mormonism are posion . There is no comparison. I would also point out Hank Hanagraf the Bible Answer man had all his questions answered by Holy Mother Church Orthodoxy. May you also 🙏 ☺️
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
Staying Eastern Orthodox till death, thank you for clarifying! You deceiving us will not help you escape eternal hell!
Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? Galatians 4:16
@@ancientpathstvYou're not St. Paul. What you think is truth is just prelest
@@whiteoctober4582 I don't claim to be Paul. I'm showing you what Paul said in the Bible, and you ignore it.
@@ancientpathstv he said it about himself, not for you to use out of context or even worse to describe yourself using his own quote about himself
@@whiteoctober4582 I've demonstrated the truth from the Scriptures and church history. If name-calling is the best defense you have for Eastern Orthodoxy, you really need to reconsider it.
Lord, Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us, sinners.
Great video, my friend. Very insightful. God bless you
Thank you!
I'm at 15:03, it is a strange claim to say that the Apostle Paul left the Christians with the bible. No, he left them indeed with his letters, and oral explanations. A valid point is raised however, in that the Eastern Orthodox simply assume they know what the oral teachings were despite not being able to provide a word for it. But there was no New Testament canon until the council of Nicaea. Is this council also wrong? If so, why do Christians essentially universally accept it's New Testament canon?
Nicea did not decide the canon.
he left them with an entire Old testament canon, the Septuagint
Orthodox Christians: Ha ha ha, silly Protestants you guys are so divided! You guys think the Holy Spirit is confused!
Also Orthodox Christians: Can non-Orthodox Christians go to heaven? Well, some of us say yes and some of say no...we are united in division!
Majority of Orthodox believe salvation can be acquired from other denominations
Also Orthodox Christians: Nah Cyril and Origen were theological bums cuz they rejected icons … nah these guys were saints and theological beasts because they believed in Mary’s perpetual virginity!
@@9space344 And I have met other Orthodox who say that all other denominations go to hell.
this video helped spur me to go to my local Orthodox church when I wasnt really wasn't feeling it. thank you for the encouragement!
There's a day of judgment coming for all of us. Many will mourn the time they used mockery to evade the truth.
@ZmayevOrder You say it "failed miserably," but no one has yet documented a single error. Like yourself, they bluster, but ignore the evidence.
@@adjustedbrass7551 The truth is that God has spoken, and He defines orthodoxy contrary to you. Eastern Orthodoxy isn't the faith of the apostles or the early church. We document the differences in the video, but since you don't engage any of its content, I'm guessing you haven't bothered to watch it all. I'm not to rehearse it all again in a comment.
Hey man,
As someone who was a very serious inquirer for the better part of a year, can I ask what about this video leads you to be encouraged to head to your local EO church?
God bless
@@Kostas_Dikefalaios I stand with the Apostles and the church fathers against your Gnostic and medieval fictions.
The Orthodox is the oldest Christian Religion and will remain the true one. It was said recently that the catholics and orthodox shall unite, but the true Easter will not happen. We are Christians, we shall stay unite! But Orthodox dogma will remain the true one.
I spent a long time listening to Eastern Orthodox and answering them from church history and God's Word. You simply make a gratuitous assertion. Did you watch the whole video?
@@ancientpathstvGod’s Word is Jesus Christ. You commit idolatry of the Bible.
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
@@mihaaai7834 I came into the Eastern Orthodox Church 20+ years ago coming out of Roman Catholic tradition and a brief stint in the Lutheran church. Over the years, I have learned more about my Christian faith and roots through research and readings, especially doing biblical studies and research. I came to realize that the Eastern Orthodox Church tends to demonize and vilify other faithful believers in Jesus Christ instead of reaching out to fellow believers. This has bothered me for years, many so-called Orthodox don’t even read the Bible, only what the priest tells them.
05:50 - Luther stated that the General (Ecumenical) councils erred
06:20 - Synod of Tyre
08:08 - The ecumenical councils claim that they have the authority of the Holy Spirit like the apostles did in Acts 15
23:08 - Constantia the sister of Constantine requested an image but Eusebius reminded her that such things are banished
23:41 - Epiphanius of Salamis tears asunder an image of a man because it was placed as a curtain in a church
24:31 - John of Damascus makes a false claim
25:13 - John of Damascus's story of Apgar requesting an image of Jesus and Jesus allegedly creating an icon. Earliest evidence of this story is from 4th century
26:13 - John of Damascus cites 1st century works of Dionysius the Areopagite.
26:55 - Unfortunately for the Orthodox, all Dionysius's alleged works were forged in the 6th century, according to the Orthodox themselves.
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
All other forms of Christianity failed to call me to Christ, so Orthodoxy has not failed. I would have died an atheist if the only church I ever knew of was Presbyterian.
The Pharisees were thought to be the most devout Jews. Jesus told them they were of their father, the devil. Rejecting the Jesus of the Bible takes many forms.
What would you say to those whom Eastern Orthodoxy failed to call to Christ, yet who came to Christ through a reformation tradition?
I would say glory to God. Calvinism failed me personally, and perhaps others, but I wouldn't go as far as to make a 2 hour long video saying that it has failed in total; and nor would I make non sequitur remarks about Pharisees in the comments of such a video.
@@machinotaur I'm glad to hear that. I also say glory to God for those who find Christ through Eastern Orthodoxy (or Calvinism, which I disagree with as well). But I think it's important to recognize wherever any tradition has departed from the original faith delivered through the apostles, so that we can hold fast to what is historic.
@@ancientpathstvThese are very interesting details to discuss. Thank you for compiling them. Coming from someone who is not EO, it seems very radical to say that EO reject the “Jesus of the Bible”. Some of the most humble Christians I learn from are EO, and some of the most prideful are “reformed” Christians. All are zealous for orthodoxy. We cannot be so quick to judge.
These very important issues drove me to study church history and after several years of study I joined the Orthodox church and that is my home now for over 35 years. Let this inspire you to go and see and open your heart to the historical original ongoing book of Acts apostolic Church.
Mormons also tell me to look for a "burning in my bosom," rather than following the clear teachings of God's Word. Instead of engaging their critics, they bear their testimony and insist they know their church is true.
@@ancientpathstv what is this burning in the bosom? I have no idea what you're talkin about. And if the teaching from scripture is really clear then why are there thousands of denominations? you know it's totally subjective interpretations.
@@pg618 The "burning in the bosom" is supposed to be a direct, subjective witness of the Holy Spirit to the truth of the Book of Mormon. They believe it trumps the Bible. The video dealt with the "thousands of denominations" argument. Did you watch it all?
@@ancientpathstv Are you familiar with John Frames book Evangelical Reunion?
@@imaginedreamingofficial3432 Yes
No matter what flavor of protest-ism, post-renaissance so-called church that one belongs to they must ask the question where would you go to church in the first 1,000 years of Christianity? The other option is to believe that everyone everywhere all got it wrong until your little group came along and actually some people really truly believe that craziness.
If you watched the whole video, you would know we addressed this claim.
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
It’s funny how hubris many Protestants are when they think they know the scriptures better than those who have the same mindset as those who wrote it.
Think of the scriptures like a camcorder with all of your early family vacations. You are showing them to your grandchildren. Do the videos have the entirety of what was said done on those vacations? No, the have the highlights, and important moments. But as Paul said, there were some things that were written, and some things that were taught verbally in person.
Yes we have everything we need in the Holy Scriptures, but the menu is not the meal. The meal is found in the Orthodox life which the Scriptures describe.
We document the lies of Eastern Orthodoxy, and the best you can offer in rebuttal is a bad analogy? Eastern Orthodoxy can't provide a single word of Paul's teaching other than what's in the Bible. It simply claims everything it does is based on oral tradition. We demonstrate that what you insist is was delivered orally contradicts not only the Scriptures, but the faith of the early church.
@@ancientpathstv
REBUTTAL TO “THE FAILURE OF THE EASTERN ORTHODOX CHURCH”
ua-cam.com/users/livehJvYz8duZhM?si=LjlRkP4LsfC7domv
I pray God opens your eyes to the only Truth. Eastern Orthodoxy ☦️.
I pray God will open your eyes to the truth in His Word. I pray you'll stop playing games and actually engage the evidence. No one has anything to fear from the truth, but liars.
@@ancientpathstvhe probably didnt even watch the video.
@@ivandemirevski7756 I'm seeing a lot of complaining and personal testimonies, but not a lot of engaging the evidence. The most substantive criticism I've heard is that it was supposedly "dishonest" to play a clip of Patriarch Kirill, because not everyone agrees with him. 🙂
@@ivandemirevski7756he probably didn’t read his Bible either.
@@ancientpathstv i'm from Russia and it's true that not all ortodox like patriarch, however everyday in church they have to confirm his authority in from of people and not critisize him. and i see many people from west who go to ortodox church write something that thay have Bible studies from ortodox church, however it doesnt ever happen here in Russia. never seen a ortodox preist preach on a street about repentace or invite someone to church, trying to call people to come or talk with them, or give bible. here in russia is only protestant churches who do that and ortodox priests call baptists and protestants a cult and herertics and false church. Also someone in baptist bible study told me that even in Russian Ortodox Church there are many diffrernt teaching and it's vary a lot from one priest to another. He said some even preach "saved by faith" but other ortodox say they are wrong.. i'm gonna watch the video now beceause i want to see what else is wrong with their techings and not feel shamed all the time anymore about not being in this church. And so i can have citical thinking about this propaganda
This looks very well done. I can already tell there are major issues with presuppositions (unproven assumptions) but this is to be expected, as Protestantism has its own ethnic/geographic biases.
Glad to see you’re quick on the draw Craig! Would be great to see a refutation if time allows you.
@@easternmcg I'm not sure if a refutation is fitting honestly, this is why i speak of presuppositions. Given the presuppositions, things would appear correct. And a video about presuppositions is boring. I'd have to think on it.
@@OrthodoxChristianTheology Ok, I see what you mean. Thanks for thinking on it.
@@greenacresorganics7922 Yes, I noticed the criteria for everything seemed to be incorrect (like not knowing why Hiera is not an ecumenical council). I almost feel that one would need a dialogue (i.e. where the filmmaker voices objections conversationally) and then the objection is dealt with. In documentary form its just too much to unpack honestly.
Seems like the gates of Hell did prevail against the Orthodox Church. This is what happens when you rely on tradition above Scripture. Orthodox Church is NOT the One True Church
☦☦☦ LORD HAVE MERCY! JESUS CHRIST! SON OF GOD, HAVE MERCY ON ME, A SINNER! ☦☦☦
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
And you will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. -Jeremiah 29:13
“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life. -John 3:16
Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.
-Acts 3:19
Please go to a PCA Presbyterian or OPC Presbyterian church, or maybe a Rpcna/Rpc Presbyterian church
If you can’t find one of the conservative presby churches then, maybe a Lcms or Wels Lutheran church.
If you are Scottish, I recommend the Free Church of Scotland, they are Presbyterian
If you are English I recommend the Free Church of England
:)
@@peterorthodox360 Our foundation is the Bible and the testimony of the early church, not a bunch of medieval fictions.
@@ancientpathstv Your Calvinism is built on the foundation of lies
@@houbertcanitio2199you quite literally just called holy scripture “a mountain of lies” see that’s what EO and RC don’t seem to understand. Every time you call us heretics you’re calling holy scripture heresy or you don’t understand sola scriptura. You cling to your traditions, you know, that thing the Pharisees used to nullify scripture. Who has the most “holy traditions” EO and RC. Now stay with me here, who argues against scripture more than anyone? EO and RC. Do you seriously think your church is infallible to falling into sin like the Pharisees?
let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the Word of God, in favor of that side will be cast the vote of truth.[1] Basil the Great, The Letters, Letter 189 (To Eustathius the Physician).
They want to believe in spiritual Platon and Aristoteles Philosophy instead of Christ. I want to follow Christ, so my authority is Christ. And his life and teachings are in the Bible. I don’t need philosophy from church fathers to believe in Christ.
No, your authority is yourself.
So is yours and every single person in history. You choose to lay down your authority to the EO, he chooses to be a protestant. If you woke up tomorrow and chose to not be EO you'd leave.
@@Benjamin-bq7tcNo, my authority is Christ and the apostles. Not Platon loving church fathers.
Leave it to the guys that appeared in the 16th century to tell the church of christ how wrong it is. You can't keep the same narrative yourselves. If I went to 4 protestant churches, all will have different ideas about the bible.
Did you even watch the video? You engage nothing in it. We didn't "appear" in the 16th century, and Patriarch Bartholomew accuses Patriarch Kirill of promoting "pseudo-religion." How about dealing with what Jesus and His apostles actually said?
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
Justify canon of the Scripture without appealing to the One True Holy Apostolic and Catholic Orthodox Church, whom you deny authority. I'll wait...
As Reformed Christians, we hold that the only true church is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. You might say that we aren't a part of it, but we hold that those who depart from the Divinely inspired Apostolic Witness, the New Testament, cannot be within the Apostolic Church.
Our God, the Trinity, One in essence and undivided, established the canon. The Church can only passively receive it, but it has no authority to establish it.
@@TheReformedCatholic The question is: How do we *know* what are the Scriptures and what books are considered as such. We, the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church know it because the Scriptures are part of our Holy Tradition passed down by apostles all the way to us, but you as the ones that deny Holy Tradition can't have coherent and consistent knowledge of it. So, to answer your question, a first century Jew knew the teachings of the Church because the apostles teached him so, even before Gospels were composed. How you answer this question if the ultimate authority is the Scriptures, which hadn't even existed in that time?
@@PrenticeBoy1688 How do you *know* what books are part of the canon? Last time I checked, the Scriptures don't contain list of books that make the Scriptures.
@@elmitross The same way that the Jews knew what the canon of the Tanakh was: the ministration of the Holy Spirit. The Church is Christ's bride. She doesn't put words into the mouth of her Husband, she merely passively submits to His voice. She isn't infallible, only her Husband as a part of the Triune Godhead is infallible.There were no councils of the preincarnation Church that defined the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures.
The early Church did, indeed, have a Bible: the Septuagint. Christ, Himself, held the Jewish religious leaders to account because they negated God's very written words by following unwritten tradition that was supposedly handed down from Moses.
The Apostles did many miracles in Christ's name, just as the prophets of the Jews worked wonders to establish their credentials to speak as God commanded them. During their lifetime, their God-breathed testimony instructed the Church. Their written witness, the New Testament, is also God-breathed. The Holy Spirit chose those written testimonies and those letters of the Apostles to be preserved and handed down. If the Apostles said things other than what was Divinely preserved, then God has actively chosen not to preserve those things.
The Reformed Protestant claim is that we, as members of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, have sought to return to the Apostolic part. We only have one reliable record of their teaching, a God-breathed record: the Holy Scriptures. Later additions and innovations to the Scriptures only serve to muddy the the crystal clear water of Divine revelation.
@@PrenticeBoy1688 Ok, how do you know which written testimonies Holy Spirit chose to be part of the Scriptures, and which didn't? Has He revealed that somehow, apart from the Holy Tradition, and the One True Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church? If the Church is fallible, as you say, how do we know that She hasn't erred about canon? How do we know Holy Spirit at all, apart from Christ's Church? Your position is incoherent and your reasoning is circular.
I will be adding comments as I watch the video for the first time, as someone who was baptized into the Oriental Orthodox Church. I'm greatly curious about the claims that will be made. But so far I am in 3:52. I do not find how quoting the Russian patriarch, who already faces much criticism within Orthodoxy, to be a useful way to criticize the Eastern Orthodox church. Patriarchs are not seen as infallible, and it would be no different than to quote something silly that a protestant pastor might have said.
Like Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox claim their church is infallible, but that infallibility is hard to pin down. A charisma of office is supposed to keep patriarchs from misleading the church. This wasn't an offhand comment, but an official address to the church. I've had numerous Russian Orthodox tell me there was nothing wrong with what Patriarch Kirill said, while Greeks rant against him as a political hack. It shows the unity of the East is a joke.
BTW, you'll see that I used an Oriental Orthodox priest to summarize the East's position on Jovinian. It was the best video available. Many ranted that I was showing my ignorance by including an Oriental Orthodox. I responded that he was a St. Vladimir graduate (like many Oriental Orthodox) and was stating the same thing any other Orthodox would say about Jovinian. It didn't stop them from ranting.
@@ancientpathstv strawman argument. The patriarchs are not mini Roman Pontiffs what so ever and they don't claim personal infallibility. You either don't understand orthodoxy or deliberately misrepresent it.
You are a joke.
This a very good and informative study. Thank you.
Thank you!
Are you able to add chapters with headings to the video? To break it up by argument?
Thanks for the suggestion. Done.
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
The amount of church fathers against images is astounding, or at least, the amount of opinions that contradict the use of icons
it really is- funny how those guys are always run out of the church or their writtings deemed as heretical- isn't it?
I mean there was a literal iconoclast/iconophile civil war that lasted about 150 years.
Brilliant presentation. Thank you for showing the truth of scripture vs man made tradition.(former Roman Catholic and now Presbyterian)
Thank you! And praise God! 🙂
You might also enjoy our followup video on Cyril Lucaris and this one. ua-cam.com/video/utIAnY5I8CU/v-deo.html
Thank you so much for putting together all this information, it was very comprehensive and exactly what I was looking for. God bless you 🙏🙏
Thank you!
Why the Orthodox and R.C.C. have faith in Mary worship is beyond my comprehension.
Clearly Scripture says: *_Luk _**_11:27_**_ And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked._*
*_Luk _**_11:28_**_ But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it._* *_KJB_*
Because they don’t love Christ and don’t appreciate what he did for them.
@@orwellianpepe7660 Are you the Lord to search the hearts and examine the minds of you brothers?
Trenham's point from 13:30f is worthy of pause and consideration. It is most certainly true that not only Paul, but all of the Apostle's said much more to those churches with whom they left the gospel. Yet similarly, in spite of Moses significant contribution to the Torah and Tanakh, even he surely said much more to the people Israel than is recorded therein.
However that said, it is quit another thing to assert that somewhere in the unarticulated and inaccessible vault of oral tradition that there is anything additional AND essential for the core of the faith, not reflected upon clearly in the sacred scriptures.
In Paul's letter to Rome for example, as in each of his writings, the fundamental gospel of the forgiveness of sins - reconciliation to the Father by the blood of the Son received through faith, is articulated over and over and even contra "prime objections" which he puts forward to discount in advance. The likelihood of him not including all of the essential aspects of this gospel in these letters, particularly in light of refuting those objections as well as contra emerging controversies in the various churches, seems exceedingly unlikely. Trenham's point looses viability.
Remember, the gospel is quite literally the power of God unto salvation for all who believe; and there is only one...for even if he or an angel were to proclaim another, let them be accursed.
Yet if that gospel is NOT contained fully in scripture, the sole authoritative source, rule and norm to which we have access, when the gospel that IS there is plainly stated over and over, it is hard to see how the promise of preservation could be true at all.
Thank God that His promise IS true, and that the gospel is neither hidden nor lost!
It certainly is an interesting point. Yet I doubt that Paul, a Jew of Pharisaical tradition, the “Pharisee” of Pharisees in his own words would endorse icon veneration due to the Mosaic Law.
I hope noone is persauded by this biased cherry picking account of history, or the very poor understanding of the relationship of scripture and tradition and the particular phronema of Orthodoxy. Is this meant to be divisive in order to make way for a self-designed version of protestantism? I deem to remember someone important in the tradition of the church (predating the canon of NT scripture) suggesting we remove the log from our own eye before trying to remove the 2:12:52 splinter from the eye of another?
You hold a doctorate and use words like "phronema," and all you offer is name-calling? You need to actually document "cherry-picking" or else you're just blustering.
Eastern Orthodoxy anathematizes everyone else as heretics, but you call us divisive for responding?
I think the only ones who will be persuaded by you are those who love their lies. Sadly there are many who do.
@@ancientpathstv Here you go being a moron again.
@@Benjamin-bq7tcCalling someone a moron/stupid, qualifies you for a place in Hell... according to Matthew 5:22...but, hey, Scripture is pointless for people who love to kiss a man's hand... important to stop there😮
Before watching this, I was Orthodox. After watching this I am still Orthodox and will be until the day my soul departs this earth
Mormons love their lies too.
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
Please do also a video on clerical celibacy. The Bible is straight and clear that Apostle had wives, but yet Jerome think that they left their wife's, wich is totally unfounded in the scriptures.
It is demon teaching, 1 Timothy 4:1-3
@1:23:22 that's not directed at human beings. That's directed at the divine council, the elohim who have been appointed as gods over the nations (Deut 32:8) while he took Israel as his nation. In fact, the verse says it "you are gods" and will "die like men", it doesn't say "you are men, and will die as men" or "you will die because you're men".
The penal substitutionary atonement you advocate is also incorrect. Christ's sacrifice was not one where he became sin or took our sins to the cross, Christ was sinless when he died on the cross. That's why his sacrifice is sufficient for us, because as a man he fulfilled the Law and thereby a new covenant between mankind and God has been established. This is some very basic stuff, I can't believe you missed that.
Gratuitous assertions make for far worse argumentation than you seem to think.
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
THANN YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO!!!
I can't tell if the goal is to deceive or are you really so deceived yourself. The video started poorly, but I stopped listening at 9:06 when you compare post schism councils of the original Church. Both halves of the original Church that apostles built, preach the same thing in many instances. If you chose to go against these teachings, what confidence can you have that it they who are in error and not you?
Instead of sneering and hurling insults, how about actually engaging the argumentation? We document more Eastern Orthodox lies in our most recent video. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
Please reply to his comment.... @@ancientpathstv
So which one is the true church? East or Rome?
Do you have a detailed outline available for further study?
Sorry, no. I make these in my spare time, while pastoring two churches and a mission work spread over 300 miles. 🙂
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
They are charging me with innovation, and base their charge on my confession of three hypostases, and blame me for asserting one Goodness, one Power, one Godhead. In this they are not wide of the truth, for I do so assert. Their complaint is that their custom does not accept this, and that Scripture does not agree. What is my reply? I do not consider it fair that the custom which obtains among them should be regarded as a law and rule of orthodoxy. If custom is to be taken in proof of what is right, then it is certainly competent for me to put forward on my side the custom which obtains here. If they reject this, we are clearly not bound to follow them. Therefore let God-inspired Scripture decide between us; and on whichever side be found doctrines in harmony with the Word of God, in favor of that side will be cast the vote of truth.[1] ] Basil the Great, The Letters, Letter 189 (To Eustathius the Physician).
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
I was a Protestant for most of my life and my parents were evangelicals and I went to a non denominational evangelical Church that had their services in gymnasiums and they rented out some buildings as well. The only thing we had was the Bible and our interpretations of it, if it wasn’t in the Bible it was a “tradition of men that nullified the word of God”. Church History wasn’t discussed, the Catholic Church was constantly ripped on as being “pagan” and so on and so forth. The Church services added nothing to my life, it was just all guys wearing suits and jumbo trons and Christian rock music, everything was so shallow. If I could sum up Protestantism with one word it would be shallow or minimalist, and that seems to be the intent of Protestantism, to get rid of all those pesky traditions, and to have nothing but the Bible. No icons, no mysticism, your entire faith is intellectual, not spiritual. This is why so many young people in the 1960s, after having all these spiritual awakenings, looked to the eastern religions for their spiritual sustenance rather than to their own Protestant traditions, because the Protestant tradition is all intellectual and non spiritual. Protestantism, in particular Reformed Protestantism, is like a dried up, stale cracker. It’s like old musty carpet that hasn’t been cleaned in thirty years, a flavourless meal that has no nutrition. After having my spiritual awakening, and becoming more involved in my non denominational church, I was searching for something more, something deeper and more contemplative, I wanted to know what the early Church was like and I wanted to study Church history because these things were not seen as important in the Protestant tradition I was raised in, because of the emphasis on “the Bible alone” so I started to dig deeper into Church history and eventually I was led to the Eastern Orthodox Church. And I discovered in the Orthodox Church all the spiritual sustenance I need, and a goldmine of Saints and deep mystical theology to study and emulate. In the Protestant tradition there are no Saints or Holy Men, all believers are considered saints, but in the Orthodox tradition you have these Holy people who lived radical and transformed lives for Christ. I will never return to Protestantism, how could I return to Protestantism? Once you discover these things you cannot look back. My Reformed friends want to attack me everytime I discuss these things with them. You will know a tree by its fruits, look at the fruits of Protestantism it’s a colossal failure. 40,000 denominations that all assert supremacy over one another, with shallow seeker friendly services, teaching worldly doctrines rather than the self denial and cross carrying teachings of Christ. People are serious about their religion and spiritual growth tend to be hungry for depth and mysticism in their spiritual life, what to the Reformed have to offer in this area? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in this area. It’s all about how awful you are as a human, and how Christ was slaughtered on your behalf to satisfy the wrath of a blood thirsty God, oh yeah a here’s my book shelf containing volumes and volumes of systematic theology and books explaining why the Reformed tradition is superior to all other forms of Christianity.” Honestly what a joke. Thank God I am Orthodox. I will die an Orthodox Christian!
What you described sounds more like Dispensationalism than Protestantism. If you watched the whole video, you would know they're not the same. We deal with its errors here: ua-cam.com/video/Zj8GXw-gbg0/v-deo.html
You've gone from one unbiblical error to another and use the first to justify the second. Rather than "bearing your testimony," how about actually engaging the content of the video? Eastern Orthodoxy is no more the biblical faith than Dispensationalism. Both rely on fake histories.
@@lukebrasting5108 Your view of the Scriptures is not the same as Jesus or the apostles. The Scriptures were given to define and correct the church. Do you really think the church in Galatia could disregard Paul's letter, since they could claim apostolic succession?
Everything you've written resonates with me. I was raised at a young age in charasmatic churches because my parent's believed that many churches in the reformed tradition were "dry" as you've described and even void of the Holy Spirit. Later as a teen we attended non-denom churches that were influenced by John Piper, Tim Keller, MacAuther etc and I went hard into Calvinist dogma believing it to be a more rational and was sincerely actracted to their "Gospel-Centered" messaging.
The only Orthodox person I knew growing up was my Romanian grandmother who had converted to Catholicism, probably because there were no Orthodox parishes near her. She was such a devout Christian though. Then I met a friend in college from Bulgaria who had such a love for the Lord and modeled her life in a very Christ-like way. I asked her what denomination she was and she told me Orthodox. I responded, "so you're protestant like me" and she denied it emphaitcally. It confused me, I was certain she must be AOG or Pentocostal because of her passion for Christ.
Then, years later I was invited to an Eastern Orthodox church by my boss and was really amazed by the service. The protestant in me recoiled at the icons, the insense,and even the sign of the cross, but the biggest impression it left on my was the amount of scripture that was read throughout the service. I thought since they weren't protestant that they must be Catholics and I always assumed Catholics didn't value scripture like that - and yet here I was at this Orthodox church that had more scripture than any "Bible Family Fellowship" church I've attended.
Then for years I didn't give any thought to it until recently when Orthodox priest came up on my UA-cam algorithm. His messages really put a fire in my spirit, awakening me from a long slumber I had felt. It's really hard to describe but I just felt like God was pulling at me. I still have this strange feeling in my belly that is drawing me to attend an Orthodox church, a feeling like when you had a crush on a girl and don't want her to know. I just hope these feelings aren't just some shallow attraction to the novelty.
I've been praying that if it's really the Holy Spirit that is drawing me to the Orthodox church that He will make it known to me. I do not want to be led by my flesh, my attraction to new things, or God forbit an evil spirit. I just know that ever since I started listening to Orthodox sermons I have been so convicted of my sin and have a strong desire to pray, to be in communion with God, to be filled with his Spirit anew and I really hope this isn't some "phase" or fleating emotion that passes and leaves me back in my old ways. There are still some conflicting teachings I am questioning because I've held them and assumed them to be true for so long, but one thing I'm not questioning is how the Holy Spirit has used the sermons I've listened to to lead me to repentence and prayer, to a love for Christ and others, and a desire to be more like Jesus.
@@joeybwalsh There's a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is the way of death. Test everything by God's Word. The Spirit speaks by and with His Word, not against it.
Amen@@ancientpathstv
Is there any mention of Cyril Lucaris in this video?
Yes
Here you go. 🙂 ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
Christian brothers don’t kill each other. If they do they’re not Christian. It’s as simple as that.
it's more like there faith drives them not to kill, they can still kill.
When anyone in this comment section expresses his/her sympathy towards EO, you always compare them to mormons, gnostics etc. Do you understand that this is logical fallacy? Your entire line of argumentation is logically fallacious.
You really need to study logic more. A gratuitous assertion (proof by assertion) is a logical fallacy. Eastern Orthodox seem to think saying something without (and contrary to) evidence makes it true. It doesn't. You've just given another example.
Mormons similarly ignore the Scriptures and historic evidences against their claims, and assert a mystical experience trumps all that. If you don't want to be compared to Mormons and other Gnostics, stop arguing like them.
@Orm? Logic is not hanging out with you
Once was a protestant went catholic nobis than traditional and eastern and now ROCOR orthdox. The closest to early church.
@@Etihwkcirtap How about engaging the evidence in the video?
@@ancientpathstvnobody wants to go scripture by scripture, they would rather argue then give us scripture. People with no foundation in the word instead just want to attack but never back it up by scripture.
Would love if you did a video solely on substitutionary atonement through the ages. It’s been a topic I’ve been studying a lot but am curious if you have any works on it or would recommend. God bless.
I'm hoping to include it in an upcoming video, The Patristic Roots of the Reformed Faith.
It’s not there. That’s the problem.
@@904strengthclub If you bothered to watch the video, you'd see that it is.
This is straight up protestant propaganda Lord have mercy on this heresy.
This is straight up Eastern Orthodox evasion. 🙂 We documented our arguments. How about trying to refute them with more than name-calling?
@@ancientpathstv Jay Dyer and David Patrick Harry will be MORE than happy to hold a public debate with you. Something tells me you wont dare go on with them to defend your position...
@@majorian4897 Wrong again! I'm going on Craig Truglia's podcast Friday. I've not heard from Dyer or anyone else. If the arguments in the video are just "Protestant propaganda," shouldn't you be able to rebut them with something more than name-calling?
set up the debate... or just mock and talk @@majorian4897
@@ancientpathstv First of all the Orthodox Christians have been around a lot longer than even the oldest Protestant Church's so to suggest they don't practice the faith the way the oldest Christians practice it is just false the Orthodox Church's have not changed where Protestant/Catholic Church's have changed a lot. The Catholic Church has become more like you guys with Vatican 2 even though there is still a small faction called the Saint Pious X society overall they've changed a lot allowing sexual predators in as Priest and the Protestant Church's have changed even more you have WOMEN PASTORS that is forbidden and how many Protestant Minister's are there that are greedy con artist's from the mega church's etc. Christianity of the East (Orthodox) has monasticism where as Christianity of the West (Protestant/Catholic) has corrupted Christmas into believing in a man who flies around the world once a year and you've corrupted Easter into believing in a great big bunny rabbit. You also legitimize the marriage of a man with another man and a woman with another woman. Let's also not forget the Crusades and Colonialism all done by Christianity of the West not Christianity of the East and in more recent times you guys have waged wars against Islam in the 2000's and 2010's and now your waging a war on the Orthodox Christians with your proxy war against Russia so you are in no position to talk about the (failure of Eastern Orthodox).
I agree with Fr. Josiah Trenham. His book Rock & Sand exposes Protestantism's failure.
Appeals to authority make for poor argumentation. If you bothered to watch the video, you'd see that we document his lies. We hope to be exposing more in an upcoming video on this channel.
@@ancientpathstv please. You're wasting my time. You appeal to your own fallacious authority that came about in the 16th Century. History is not on your side.
@@dustinneely I give documented evidence. You just make gratuitous assertions.
@@ancientpathstv claims do not equal evidence.
@@dustinneely We've documented our evidence from original sources. Instead of engaging the evidence, you're just claiming it's wrong. Engage the evidence and try to prove your case.
I am making a very slow review of your video. I was only able to make notes on a small portion this week, but I'd like to get your response to my comments. In this particular short review, I can only offer criticism, but am open to hearing what you have to say:
9:20 - You say the council of Hieria in 754 was rejected because it sounds Protestant. You’re not being fair here and are using empty rhetoric to sway your listeners. There were no “Protestants” to reject in 754.
11:05 - 15th C. council of Ferrara (Florence). 1438-39
Called by the Byzantine emperor to unite west and east against Islam. (ie., it was a political attempt to change doctrine for the purpose of getting military help from the Latins). Patriarchs from Rome, Constantinople, and reps from Alexandria, Antioch and Jerusalem were there.
The council accepted supremacy of the pope, filioque, unleavened bread in communion, etc.
Mark of Ephesus was the only one who refused to go along.
Okay, but St. Mark was originally very enthusiastic about the council and wanted union. It was only during the council that he became opposed to the idea, seeing the novelties of the Latins.
12:26 - Russian Church declared itself autocephalous in 1448. Not sure why that’s stated here. It seems like this part is incongruous with the flow of your presentation(?)
12:40 - Gennadius Scholaris was mentored by St. Mark of Ephesus. They both had previously stood strongly for the faith of Christ against their own teacher, a former Metropolitan who had reverted to paganism. (This guy, Gemistos Plethon, was also at the Council of Florence at the request of the Emperor). I mention this because it shows their character-to stand for the truth of the faith even over someone they had once respected and from whom they had previously received instruction. They were men of character. You tie in St. Gennadius II’s resistance to accepting the Latin heresies with the fall of Constantinople. Wouldn’t you in other places praise such a staunch stand on the truth of the faith? Isn’t it better to lose the nation, or even the whole world than to capitulate to the novelties of Rome or any other false system?
12:58 - “Orthodox define a council as ecumenical based on whether they agree with it.” This is a big overstatement. I’ve already shown in a previous comment that there were no patriarchs at the “first” 7th E.C. at Hieria in 754, so that council is legitimately ignored. You can’t have a council when none of the bishops are there! That would be comparable to the LGBT Presbyterians holding an “Presbyterian Council” for your denomination. Would you recognize such a council? So your criticism here is unwarranted.
Not saying I don't agree with you in other places-I'm just not in review of those yet.
I have to cover nearly 600 miles today to preach in three different places, so I'll try to get back to you in greater detail later. As to Hieria "sounding Protestant," the point we tried to make is that there have always been those who have stood against what Eastern Orthodoxy insisted was the "ancient faith." You don't find icons in the first centuries, or the exaggeration of Mary. When those things started to appear, men like Helvidius, Jovinian, and Vigilantius stood against them. These men have often been called "proto-Protestants" by men like Cardinal Newman. They were suppressed by the emperor, but their opposition never went away. It came to the fore during the iconoclastic controversy. Eastern Orthodox portray it as simply a reaction to Islam, but as demonstrated in the video, it goes much deeper than that.
Eastern Orthodox start with what they believed in the eighth century and project that back through time. Their narrative doesn't hold up to scrutiny. As to LGBT, the mainline denomination suppressed those who called for Biblical faithfulness in 1936. We have a completely separate existence and view their denomination as apostate. This isn't as thorough as I would like, but I'm running out the door and didn't want to leave you waiting.
@CozlovSefulabaniBoss-us5yx John saw and touched Jesus. He's testifying of that reality. To make his context icons is to destroy his witness to Him.
@CozlovSefulabaniBoss-us5yx The Council of Hieria did include bishops. The Patriarch of Constantinople had died before the council, but his successor and his successor ratified Hieria.
@@ancientpathstv Thanks for taking the time in your busy schedule to reply. And I hope the troll in this thread doesn't distract us!
A quick follow-up: So if the LGBT crowd had a meeting to "dialog" with the "Orthodox Presbyterian Church", and no leaders of the OPC attended, could the LGBT supporters claim they had the support of OPC of their agenda and then force their propaganda on the OPC members? Of course not. It's the same with the Council of Hiera, which had no patriarchs, and other councils that had only a few patriarchs. Whether we like it or consider it an affront to our American Individualism, Christ's church is hierarchical -- has been from the start. How we address problems in the Church should not be that we go off and start a new church. We have leaders, and those leaders meet to discuss and debate. And in submission to the Holy Spirit working in the unity and bond of all, we come to unified decisions (through the Holy Spirit, through those over us in the Lord). And for all that to be legitimate, those leaders (the patriarchal bishops) must be present (or at least represented by a delegate).
@@choppy1356 There have been elders from the start, but you're asserting a hierarchy that you can't prove, even if you take the most extreme reading of Ignatius and ignore everyone else in the early church. The whole idea of "apostolic sees" was something that developed over time. Rome points to Irenaeus complimenting Rome's faithfulness as if this establishes papal primacy, but they ignore how Irenaeus also criticized the bishop of Rome. Constantinople's claim to authority was more as the "new Rome," than a real claim to connections to Andrew. Jerusalem wasn't named a patriarchate until the fifth century.
Hieria, like every other ecumenical council, was called by an emperor. It wasn't a handful of bishops, but hundreds. The Patriarch of Constantinople was dead, but the council was affirmed by his two successors. It was the standard for decades. Second Nicaea was overturned by the Council of Constantinople, with the Patriarch of Constantinople present.
The unavoidable fact is that councils contradict one another, but the Scriptures don't.
Are we gonna see the debate with the orthodox apologist ?
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
We must give honour and praise to the Theotokos and saints who are our rulers in heaven along with Christ.
According to scripture!
@@TheReformedCatholic
Matthew 19:27-28
27 Then Peter responded and said to Him, “Behold, we have left everything and followed You; what then will there be for us?” 28 And Jesus said to them, “Truly I say to you, that you who have followed Me, in the [l]regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on [m]His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Firstly do you agree that the saints rule and judge with Christ in heaven over us?
1Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God. 2Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves.
😅 and even this is poorly understood by the Protestants who reject the divine council of God.
I’d like any Protestant to explain the plain meaning of these texts. They cannot has been my experience.
@@TheReformedCatholic so why don’t you exegete the text and tell me, do the saints rule over you, in heaven?
I’m open to an explanation that does not indicate that they rule over the faithful
Since it seems to me that you interpret 12 tribes to mean the disbelieving Jews.
Whilst I would say the 12 tribes are the kingdom of God and the saints rule and judge over us. And we owe them praise and honour as our rulers.
@@TheReformedCatholic I guess you can't respect any person you come across then. Or you'd be worshipping them.
@@TheReformedCatholic do you agree that the saints rule in heaven over you along with Jesus?
@@TheReformedCatholic are the saints alive in Christ or you see them as dead?
As an Orthodox Christian, you have created an evil video that points to known political actors within the Russian Orthodox church, and not all of Orthodoxy, and you've made claims that are unjustified. There are numerous Orthodox Christians which openly condemn statements by the Russian Patriarch, as well as, the self appointed Ukrainian Patriarch. You also have a very poor understanding of Orthodox doctrine, teachings, and scripture. Even Paul tells us, "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." 2 Thessalonians 2:15. So both Scripture and Tradition help us in growing our faith. You want to claim Sola Scriptura, well that is a quote straight from Paul's mouth. Why would Paul say this? Because at the time he wrote this letter to the Church of Thessalonica, there was no "scripture" except the Old Testament. None of the gospels had been written, neither the Book of Acts, no Revelation, none. It wouldn't be until several more years before the first, most likely the Gospel of Mark was actually written (some would argue their may have been one that proceeded this, but it is most likely lost to history). So when you say, Orthodox follow man-made traditions - what were all the churches that Paul and the Apostles preached to following? It was what these teachings, and the teachings of the early church fathers (those who were taught by the Apostles) that have become tradition. Further, several councils throughout Church history have been convened to determine "tradition", for example the Nicene Creed, the nature of Christ, the Holy Spirit, basically all the things that today we call church doctrine is completely based on Scripture and Church Tradition/Teachings. So, I say this in a very Christian way - before you point the finger at others so broadly, remove the log from your own eye! The spirit of division does not come from Christ, so our efforts are more successful when we strive to uphold the Gospel of Jesus. Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:27-28 I pray you seek Truth, for it will truly set you free.
Josiah Trenham said when Paul died he left them with "two little epistles." No, he left them with a complete Old Testament, and nearly complete New Testament. We documented our claims. Church fathers and ecumenical councils contradict one another. Please try engaging the content of the video with more than emotion and name-calling. We document even more Eastern Orthodox lies in our most recent videos. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
If what we're saying is wrong, try to document it. No one has anything to fear from the truth, but liars.
Based cooking brother now submit to Rome 💪
@@SolarSiege The same "cooking" destroys Rome's claims. ua-cam.com/video/utIAnY5I8CU/v-deo.html
@@stefan5234 If it's so bad you should be able to refute it with evidence, and not just name-calling.
@@ancientpathstv I will pray for your immortal souls. According to you, all "Christians" prior to Luther went to Hell? I think your understanding of the Bible is twisted, your understanding of the accepted Church Councils is wrong (even according to Luther). Further, there was no New Testament when Paul was killed. It hadn't been completed yet. There were merely letters flying around between various early churches. I think you should spend more time studying and not guessing, because if you open your own study Bible, it will most likely give you the dates when the Gospels and letters were written. However, they weren't compiled together until much later. Like Jesus said to the woman at the well, "You worship what you do not know" and you point your finger at things you do not completely understand. There's nothing wrong with that, but before wrongly pointing your finger, you need to ensure your standing on biblically solid ground, because in these cases you're not. I don't know why these days American Christians feel they need to attack Orthodox Christians. You would not have the faith you practice today without the Orthodox Church holding to the original teachings of the Apostles and Early Church Fathers. Ask any pastor and/or theologian, and he/she will agree. I pray God blesses you and you spend more time spreading the Gospel instead of attacking fellow Christians because of the way they express their faith in worship.
This is a really well put together video. I have been looking into Orthodox a fair bit recently, however this video has also helped to anchor me into discerning between tradition and biblical teaching. I like the comparison you make of when Jesus rebukes the Pharisees of their traditional practices that were not supported by biblical teachings. This definitely opened my eyes to not just blindly accept traditions as being the "spoken" teachings passed down through the churches. Thank you for your perspective you have brought
Thank you!
Ive told many Catholic women and men that if "God" would, is calling me to become priest, that is the only objection i have to Catholicism because i want children and wife because naturally i feel the emotional and physical need to do so. I feel so much stress thinking how i am not going to get what I've longed for over decade what i truly needed the moment i was self exposed to pornography. Im Catholic but i just know priesthood is not for me. I dont see Protestantism as true neither.
@@IsraelCountryCubePlease watch. ua-cam.com/video/utIAnY5I8CU/v-deo.html
Any church that has such a history of constantly moving the goal posts of redemptoion and sactification and justification etc etc rooting them not in any scripture , but is wild mysteries and myticisms- is just a cult- no matter how old or well established.
0:58 yes, it the faith that Christ established. Ill die as an Orthodox Christian. Thanks though
Saying it doesn't make it so. How about engaging the arguments in the video?
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
I don’t know, man. Here’s my story - in as short a format as I can make it to get my point across…
I grew up in a non-Christian home. I started reading the Bible and felt a strong attraction to Jesus as a young adult and committed my life to Christ while in the Navy when I was 19. I have now been a Christian for about 25 years. I raised my kids in a conservative evangelical Bible believing church. I have, for many years, felt like there was “something missing” in my faith and was skeptical that the churches I have been exposed to could provide that “missing piece” I felt was lacking.
I started studying theology and church history about 15 years ago, looking for answers. I found the early reformers and ultimately reformed theology. It really seemed to check all the boxes as far as my head could understand. It seemed much more logically consistent and biblical than the dispensational, fundamentalist type theology I had always been exposed to. But as time went on and I studied and spent time online on reformed message boards, I realized that most of the people I heard talking had all their ducks in a row as far as logical, biblical arguments, and liked to debate, but they didn’t seem like deep, spiritual people. That’s not what I’m interested in. I don’t care about winning theological debates. I just want to know our triune God on a deeply personal level.
While listening to a church history class online I first heard of the desert fathers and the Eastern Orthodox Church. As I looked more in to it, I felt a strong attraction. I looked into local Orthodox churches and found one near me. I contacted the priest and took him out to lunch to ask some questions and attended a couple of vespers services since I still felt connected to my own church and wanted to attend it on Sunday morning.
But - although I felt strongly attracted to Orthodoxy, I couldn’t bring myself to leave my whole family community and my wife was very against becoming Orthodox as well. Plus, as a Protestant I could still make many arguments against Orthodoxy. So I just kept trudging along in my life.
Fast forward to now. My kids are adults and attending churches of their own. My daughter and her husband are conservative, reformed Presbyterians. My son and his wife go to a very contemporary styled evangelical church. My wife and I moved away from the city we raised our kids in to stay closer to where our kids now live. We are still trying to find a church in our new city but it’s been a couple of years and nothing seems right so far. I can’t deny it, my heart still yearns for depth and closeness to our Lord and something inside of me (The Holy Spirit?) is still telling me I’m not going to find that soul quenching water I am wanting in any evangelical church, and probably not in any old school Protestant church either. So, my heart just keeps pushing me back to Orthodoxy. There is a LOT I don’t understand about it, and a lot of things that are very difficult for me with my spiritual and cultural background. But I’m feeling more and more like I just need to put aside my own understanding and trust in an institution that has been in the soul mending business for two millennia and let the chips fall where they may.
For others that are along the path, may God grant us wisdom!
Reformed soteriology has become popular in America, but sadly, it's all too often divorced from a Reformed ecclesiology and spirituality. Much of what calls itself Reformed in America is restorationist, schismatic, gnostic, and reactionary. The answer isn't to follow our feelings into the demonstrable frauds of Rome or Eastern Orthodoxy, but to embrace the fullness of the historic and Biblical faith. A message board like this is not a great forum for these kinds of discussions. If you want to give me a call next week, my number is on the church website.
@@ancientpathstv I agree. Not the best place to discuss deeper topics of the heart. I haven’t watched this video yet, but I will. I am truly just searching for truth and a path that will lead me to a closeness with God. This world is becoming more and more obviously not a place to put much hope in. I’ll check out your church website and other videos too. I appreciate the offer of a talk. I may just take you up on that!
Well, schucks. I just watched the whole video. Pretty convincing, I’ll have to say. It would be very hard for me to dive in head first into Eastern Orthodoxy after that… Maybe I’ll have to revisit my thoughts on early Protestantism… Maybe I moved past it too quickly?
I’ll admit, I’m drawn by asceticism and the “other-worldliness” of Orthodox Church services, but at the same time I do recognize that ascetic practices have often been a way for people to somehow atone for themselves rather than just a way to draw closer to Jesus by retreating from the world. I guess I just wish there was more of a specific Protestant path to deep sanctification that I could be led on. I’ve been disappointed over the years with a lack of depth that I see first off, in myself, but secondly, in almost everyone around me, including people in ministry.
That being said, I know it’s Christ’s righteousness alone I should look to, but still, it would be nice to have some deep sanctification that led to feelings of deep inner peace and tranquility. Christianity for me has been mostly an experience of the head, rather than of the heart, if I’m being honest. And it seems like it’s the same for pretty much every other evangelical Christian I’ve ever met.
Anyway, good food for thought. I appreciate your offer for a phone conversation. I’ll most likely be in touch!
@@GenericHandle54321 Thank you for the note. Be sure to check out our other videos, especially the two followup ones on Eastern Orthodoxy:
Cyril Lucaris: Calvinist Patriarch/Orthodox Saint: ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
Filioque: How Eastern Orthodoxy Anathematizes the Church Fathers": ua-cam.com/video/5mEMG4tkQf0/v-deo.html
@@GenericHandle54321 I also encourage you to read the Puritan Paperback series by Banner of Truth and Calvin's sermons.
Kyrill is merely stating that a soldier has not sinned. He has committed a righteous act in fulfilling his duty to his nation. You have to be wilfully ignorant here.
You've misunderstood what I said. He's saying that the soldier's sacrifice can at least partially atone for his sins. That's the Galatian heresy.
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
now that I've shaved off my beard, and lowered my total testosterone by 200ng/dl, I think I'm ready to accept the truth and convert to the ancient faith of protestantism.
Just bought my first suit and tie, and am ready to sit in the pews and listen to an exhilarating 2 hour sermon
Mock all you want. There's a day of judgment coming for all of us.
@@ancientpathstv no im good I believe in Christ so im saved. I even had my monthly cracker and grape juice 👍
@@DoIoannToKnow Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Galatians 5:19-23
@@TheReformedCatholic convenient to zero in on the one simple joke and dance right around the hard commentary points I made.
Also you did not refute that heterodoxy is gay. Noted
@@TheReformedCatholic keep your WASP racism in check, westoid - pierogi are Polish.
you're referring to piroshki
Thank you for bringing these issues to the surface. I found the icon veneration issue uncomfortable and its useful to know the history behind it. I am at the point where every church has some malfunction holding them back. I hope to settle on branch sometime soon. Untill then ill keep on reading.
Test all things by God's Word. Remember no one has anything to fear from the truth, but liars.
Check out our other videos and feel free to reach out if I can be of any help.
How about those voice actors...
The only true Church of Christ. Orthodox Church. God bless you all. ☦️
Lies are truth?
We took the time to hear Eastern Orthodox claims and engage its arguments. Like a Mormon, you ignore all the evidence and testify to what you want to be true. May God bless you with a hunger for the truth.
@@ancientpathstv Because we abide in the truth, we can never be hungry. And we drink from living water, so we can't even get thirsty...
@@alek27e Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Gospel of Matthew 7:21-23
@@ancientpathstv That's a dry belief of yours. Just brandishing Bible quotes...nothing new. Goodbye.
As much as i agree with the overall thesis of the video, refering to icons as "badly painted pieces of wood" is a low blow. I have a great appreciation for the artistic style of the east. Then again, im a lutheran, and we've always had a greater appreciation for art than the reformed.
When Rome and the East anathematizes me unless I venerate them, they are idols for destruction.
@ancientpathstv , that I can understand. My problem with icons is not that they exist. It's that both Rome and the East command me to venerate them. I'm an aniconist, meaning I believe having art in worship is good as long as the art is not worshipped or distract from the worship.
@@EvanHuber-nv3kl When even the brazen serpent was worshiped, it proves that our hearts are natural idol factories and images in worship should be avoided.
@@ancientpathstv yeah, but who was it that commanded to set the serpent on the rod?
@@ok-lq6tv If you bothered to watch the video, you'd see it's addressed, with testimonies of the church fathers on the matter. As shown in the followup video on the Filioque, even Roman Catholic scholar Richard Price admits,". . .the iconoclast claim that reverence towards images did not go back to the golden age of the fathers [i.e., 325-451], still less to the apostles, would be judged by impartial historians today to be simply correct."
@ancient path, Brother I have two questions: what is the orthodox priests name at 37:16 min? And what exactly does he say at 37:16? Does he say “john chrysostom never saw an iconostasis”? (Or iconoclast)? I’m sorry but my English is not the best and I want to translate it in german. I think he’s saying iconostasis right? Because he points to what is behind him.
That's Archpriest Patrick Henry Reardon of the Antiochian Orthodox Church. He's saying the iconostasis is a later development and that Chrysostom would never have seen one.
@@ancientpathstvthank you for answering! I just found out that Buddha is a saint in catholic and orthodox Christianity. (Ioasaph) I am speechless by the legends they use and frame it as “apostolic tradition”….wow.
Im a Orthodox, and will stay Orthodox. HOWEVER, this video was interesting to listen to, thank you.
Please deal with the issues raised. Your church anathematizes me. They're preaching an unbiblical gospel.
@@justian1772 Gratuitous assertions make for bad argumentation. We offered documented evidence. You've just blustered.
@@ancientpathstv I'm surprised you know what the word anathema means. We're the only Church still proclaiming anathemas, 2,000 years later. Even the Roman Catholics have fallen to the soft times.
@@CHURCHISAWESUM As shown in the video, the Apostle Paul pronounced anathemas on your gospel in Galatians 1.
@@soare5182 You might want to consult the Merriam-Webster Dictionary. It defines an anathema as a ban or curse solemnly pronounced by ecclesiastical authority and accompanied by excommunication; the denunciation of something as accursed; a vigorous denunciation : curse.
If you read through the comments, I've repeatedly been called a heretic and a demon.
Instead of using prayer to ignore the lies of Eastern Orthodoxy, I'd prefer you deal with what's in the video and test all things by God's Word in the Bible.
You've really upset the Orthobros with this one. Expect Jay Dyer to do a 37-hour insult laden response, which won't actually address any of the issues brought up in this video.
Actually upset no one because these super old arguments have been dealt with over and over again. Yawn
Dude, you don't know what you're talking about.
@@georgemichalopulos382 no u
@elijahg37 I agree. He knows his fans love to see him rage, though, so that's what keeps the views and money coming in.
You think Jay's content lacks actual substance? That's funny. He's got hours of material already debunking this garbage video.
We are not entitled to such licence, I mean that of affirming what we please; we make the Holy Scriptures the rule and the measure of every tenet; we necessarily fix our eyes upon that, and approve that alone which may be made to harmonize with the intention of those writings
-Gregory of Nyssa
All who ask receive, those who seek find, and to those who knock it shall be opened. Therefore, let us knock at the beautiful garden of Scripture. It is fragrant, sweet, and blooming with various sounds of spiritual and divinely inspired birds. They sing all around our ears, capture our hearts, comfort the mourners, pacify the angry, and fill us with everlasting joy.
-John of Damascus
The Holy and Inspired Scriptures are sufficient of themselves for the preaching of the Truth.
-Athanasius of Alexandria
We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith
-Irenaeus of Lyons
And let them remember that prayer should accompany the reading of Sacred Scripture, so that God and man may talk together; for "we speak to Him when we pray; we hear Him when we read the divine saying."
-Ambrose
Make knowledge of the Scripture your love ... Live with them, meditate on them, make them the sole object of your knowledge and inquiries.
-Jerome
We need not only read Sacred Scripture, but learn it as well and grow up in it. Realize that nothing is written in Scripture unnecessarily. Not to read Sacred Scripture is a great evil.
-Saint Basil
Whoever you may be, always have God before your eyes; whatever you do, do it according to the testimony of the holy Scriptures; in whatever place you live, do not easily leave it. Keep these three precepts and you will be saved.
-Anthony the Great
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
It might be incredibly frustrating and disappointing to see how little engagement Eastern Orthodox are willing to participate in, but I've heard they actually have an incredibly rigorous and compelling counter-critique to every point you made.
... it's just only passed down through oral tradition 😏
Lord willing, in a few weeks, we'll have a new video out, detailing the story of the 17th-century Patriarch Cyril Lucaris. Their "oral tradition" about him doesn't stand up so well to the documentation that the modern age makes available. They rejected his attempts to reform the church, conspired with the Roman Catholics, falsely accused him to the Turks, and then claimed him as a martyr for Orthodoxy. They venerate the icon of the man who publicly denounced the veneration of icons.
“passed down through oral tradition” like the “toll houses”.
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
OP 😂😂😂😂
Thank you for this video. I found it very helpful.
Thank you! We made a followup video here: ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
We hope to have a third out soon on the filioque, and I'm working on the fourth and final one.
At 2:09:08 "Orthodoxy is whatever you want it to be" is so true. I once met an EO guy who didn't believe in hell. Their religion stands on the shifting sands of forgeries and the twisting of scripture to fit their doctrine. From what I've experienced as a Baptist, these EO people love to to show you their fathers, catechisms, and religious traditions, but when it comes to the Word of God, they run. The cop-out is that we don't have justification to interpret scripture. They fail to filter their doctrine through Paul's epistles (Who's the apostle to the Gentiles) Romans 1:16 "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for IT is the power of God unto salvation..." In 1 Corinthians 1:17 Paul said "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel." And when Paul recaps the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15, water baptism is never mentioned clearly showing that the gospel, which is apart from water baptism, brings salvation.
Do you know how many protestants that I have met of every flavour that have said similar things? Some that believe in hell, some that do not. Some that believe in women's ordination, some that do not. Some accept the rapture, some that do not. For nearly every split within the protestant world you will find people on both sides of every issue. Should I judge protestanism by them? By these individuals? Or is your view the only one correct within the ever splitting world of the protestant so-called faith? One Orthodox does not a theology make.
Hmmm - so you met a guy who didn’t believe in Hell and claimed to be EO - so now you are an expert. Perhaps he meant purgatory? Never the less, May God Bless you as we are all Christians and for the most part I keep my eye on my own plate and let God and Jesus Drive. I’m EO btw.
@@christinah128 I would concede that the guy for my example was an anecdote, but my point was that a person can twist scripture to teach any doctrine they want. Also, the historic view of the EO church up until the late 19th to early 20th century has been there is no salvation outside of the EO church.
@@consolecoachThat is still our position. And has it ever occurred to you that you are the one twisting the scriptures?
@@consolecoach Oh - and yes, Scripture can be twisted, agreed.
One day, maybe even soon, all of us who profess faith in Christ will be undeniably united under the sword of persecution. The EO, RC, and protestant alike will be united because when persecution is global it will not matter one bit which sect any of us belong to, only who our Lord is. Declaring anathama on those who have faith in Christ is really a luxury the EO church takes for granted, because there will come a day when whether they like it or not they'll be considered by the world to be equal to the protestant. Also every time I hear the EO pray the anathama to the protestant prayer the ONLY thing I can think of is the parable of the pharisee and the tax collector. God have mercy on us all. Great Video!!!
The Church will stand against all heresies, even the Protestant heresy. Your churches will die out, but the Church of Christ will endure forever. ☦️
When Mormons can't answer their critics, they also "bear their testimony."
I am Eastern Orthodox. The five sola are false doctrine, and Reformed theology is heresy.
@@SuperOverlord999 But you play the same games as Mormons. You make gratuitous assertions and refuse to actually engage your critics' arguments.
@ancientpathstv John Chrysostom, an Eastern Father, was very familiar with Pauline thought. In Chrysostom’s sermon on Ephesians 1:4-5, he asked why God chose us:
And why did [God] choose us? ‘That we should be holy and blameless before him.’ So that you may not suppose, when you hear that he chose us, that faith alone is sufficient, he goes on to refer to manner of life. This, he says, is the reason and the purpose of his choice-that we should be holy and blameless… Being holy is a matter of sharing in faith; being blameless is a matter of living an irreproachable life (Homilies on Ephesians, 1, 1-2).
Lactantius (AD 240-320), a Western Father, continues this same thought:
Labors that are endured and overcome all the way up until death, cannot fail to obtain a reward….And this reward can be nothing else but immortality (The Divine Institutes, Bk. III, ch. XII).
And again:
The spirit must earn immortality by the works of righteousness (Bk. IV, ch. XXV).
Theophilus (approx. AD 180), an Eastern Father, spoke of a life of doing well and obeying God’s command to procure salvation:
To those who by patient continuance in well-doing seek immortality, He will give eternal life everlasting life” (Theophilus to Autolycus, Bk. I, ch. XIII). “For man drew death upon himself by disobeying. So, by obeying the will of God, he who wants to can procure for himself life everlasting (Bk. II, ch. XXVII).
Irenaeus, a Western Father, in his writings, Against Heresies, Book I, confirms the necessity of a life of love and holiness, as well as keeping our Lord’s commandments in order to receive eternal life:
But to the righteous and holy, and those who have kept his commandments and have remained in his love…he will by his grace give life incorrupt, and will clothe them with eternal glory (ch.10:1).
@@ancientpathstvYour doctrine of Sola Fide is unknown to the Fathers of the Church.
Get ready for Kyle to come after you!
😂
Protestants gonna have that Cartman voice like : “Kyyyyyle!!!!”
Eastern Orthodoxy is built on a mountain of lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
Kyle just cannot respond to this lol
@@Joshua12w2o Oh yes, you need Jay Dyer, and David Erhan, give it another minute, and you'll get Fr Peter Heers, and Gregory Decapolite.
Great documentary. It was very informative, and I know the Lord will use it to further His kingdom!
Thank you! Be sure to check out the follow up video on Cyril Lucaris.
I am protestant, after watching the video im still protestant
53:25 this priest is actually oriental orthodox, not eastern.
I'm well aware. He gave the best presentation on Helvidius (who was pre-Chalecedon) and, like many American Coptic priests, is a graduate of St. Vladimir's Seminary. He's articulating the Eastern Orthodox position, even though he's Coptic.
@@ancientpathstv The Coptics and Eastern Orthodox have been separated for A LONG TIME. Why would one expect a Coptic to properly represent an Eastern?
@@ms.rainh20teachesart Fr. Abraham Wassif, like many American Captic priests, is a graduate of the St. Vladimir's Seminary, an OCA school. Helvidius was before the separation. Does anything he say contradict the Eastern Orthodox position on Helvidius? The simple answer is no, but Eastern Orthodox keep looking for excuses not to deal with the substance of the video.
@@ancientpathstv I am not an Orthodox, just started looking into it last week. I was just asking a reasonable question, thank you for your response 👍
@@ms.rainh20teachesart I didn't mean to sound short. I've had a lot of irate comments. 🙂
In my observation, all Calvinists do is criticize anyone who is not a Calvinist. They really act as if they are the top of the food chain. Yes, there are some fine theological minds, but way too much criticism for those who are not reformed. Maybe instead of "critiquing " everyone whom you have disagreements with, focus on works of mercy and love. In my observation, those who are reformed really lack in this area, and would rather just have knowledge. I believe it was R.C. Sproul Jr. who said something along the lines of this... If you are looking for the best theological minds, look to the reformed, but if you are looking for works of mercy, dont look here. He was humble enough to recognize that very issue,
Demonizing people makes a poor excuse for answering their arguments.
Are performing works of mercy and love mutually exclusive with proclaiming truth? Ironically, I think you are unfairly attributing a lot to Calvinists which is critical, harsh, and unloving.
@@johnathanbrown1035 Do you attribute anything to Mormons or JWs?
@@apo.7898 False beliefs.
@@johnathanbrown1035 This what we attribute to Calvinists too.
Although this video has some good points (some of which I have no answer for as I am not a scholar), I still think Eastern Orthodoxy provides a better foundation than Reformed Christianity. The spiritual practice of the EO church is far superior than anything I found in Protestantism. Protestantism, generally speaking, has severed itself from the history of the Church; never did I hear about the lives of the saints, nor did I hear about the Ecumenical Councils. Beauty has also been stripped from many Reformed churches, which grieves me, as art can be used to glorify God and educate parishoners. The church calendar has been done away with for no good reason; the church calendar helps us Christians to remember and celebrate important events in history. I truly cannot go back to Reformed Christianity, it is spiritually malnourished.
I think EO has the Gospel of Christ.
My only critique of Orthodoxy is that it needs to evangelize more and needs to address parishes that have become 'ethnic clubs'.
May God bless you.
Your experience doesn't sound very Protestant. Our congregation recites the Nicene Creed every week. As demonstrated in our most recent video, Eastern Orthodox anathematize Protestants and ask God that we be unforgiven in this life and the next, so instead of sharing your subjective opinion, how about actually dealing with the evidence? God has spoken, and presented a radically different gospel than Eastern Orthodoxy. You ignore Him at your peril. Here's the most recent video, which demonstrates even more Eastern Orthodox lies. ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
@@ancientpathstv Well, sorry to burst your bubble but it was a 'Protestant experience'; I have attended Anglican, Presbyterian and Baptist churches, and the only one to recite the creed were the Anglicans (who didn't even follow their BCP - what a joke). I believe the anathemas are in place as a warning to those who willingly cause theological chaos and dissent. Do you think the resulting theological chaos of the Reformation is a blessing or a good thing?
One of my biggest gripes with Protestantism is its proposal of 'Branch Theory', as it isn't compatible with the writings of the Apostles, nor the Nicene Creed, nor the Saints who succeeded the Apostles. Catholicity isn't found in multiplicity of doctrine, rather, it is found in unity of doctrine and the Eucharist (I found that out the hard way over the past few years).
I simply cannot fathom the idea that Christ's church apostatised on fundamental issues at such a wide level, so early on, only for it to be 'corrected' by the Reformers centuries later. It calls into question the providence of God and Christ's words that the 'Gates of Hades shall not prevail'.
One thing I have gathered from your video, and other critics of Orthodoxy, is that people don't like the exclusivity of the Orthodox Church. To me, that criticism makes no sense, especially when I hear it from Calvinists (such as yourself), as they are literally the most exclusive Christians in existence (James White is a prime example).
All I can say about these 'lies', the ones you speak of, is that maybe you're just misinterpreting the data? I don't know.
May God bless you and guide you.
@@kyrie-eleison-23 well said Kyrie Eleison. I agree with you.
Wrong
@@kyrie-eleison-23 The "most exclusive Christians in the world"? I find that funny. Dr. White (a Baptist) has preached numerous times in our Presbyterian church and shared communion with us. Meanwhile Eastern Orthodoxy calls for me to be unforgiven in this life and the next. How about actually dealing with the content of the video?
This was well done video, with interesting facts. I truly enjoyed this presentation of the Eastern Orthodox Church. Keep make these videos. Thank you.
Thank you! Soli Deo Gloria!
BTW, we've done two follow-up videos on Eastern Orthodoxy: one on Cyril Lucaris and the other on the filioque.
Cool. Now, if i wanted to become protestant, which church should I choose? baptist, methodist, lutheran ?? or maybe presbyterian? Which Theology do should I adhere to? Do I just read the Scriptures and make up my own thing? If the dude from this video comments, please don't call me names such as "vile eastern orthodox" and then a link to another video. I genuinely want you to answer my question. Where is the Church?
I never used the term "vile Eastern Orthodox," and you need to hold Eastern Orthodoxy to the same standard you want to hold everyone else. Russians tell me the Greek Archbishop Elpidophorous is a heretic and Patriarch Bartholomew is a CIA asset, while the Greeks tell me Patriarch Kirill is a heretic and a pawn of Putin. Eastern Orthodoxy has its schisms and to demand a perfect church from others is hypocritical. Your demand would have served the Arians very well when they were in power, because not all the supporters on Nicaea agreed on everything.
Historically Baptists and Methodists are restorationists who divorced themselves from the testimony of the historic church. Charles Wesley called Montanus and Pelagius two of the "holiest men" of the early church.
All churches are a mix of truth and error, but Rome and Eastern Orthodoxy have so rejected the historic and Biblical faith to be no churches at all. Similarly, there are nominal Reformed and Presbyterian (Scottish Reformed) ones who are no more Reformed than they are Christian, but the Reformed churches that seek to hold everything to the light of God's Word are the most faithful. They neither divorce themselves from the historic church, nor blindly follow man-made tradition.
I encourage you to watch our most recent video, where we demonstrate that was the conclusion of Patriarch Cyril Lucaris. It demonstrates more lies of the East, including in councils of "universal authority." ua-cam.com/video/_yQBY2lPWUc/v-deo.html
-Insert political dialectics and relate it to churches -
Paragraph 1:
Despite Orthodox Patriarchs being in schism and having different political ambitions, they would still adhere to the same Theology, so you're wrong about this and clearly misinterpret (don't know) what patriarchs are. They are certainly not infallible. Your claim about the supporters of nicea not agreeing on everything is true, yet there is still concensus of the council here, so I don't get your point
Paragraph 2:
What about Lutherans and presbytarians and the other 4739182272 denominations, you only mentioned two. Also, you are only giving me information here and it means absolutely nothing to me, what's your point dude? I mean if you want to speak about Montanism, imagine the kind of prelest montanists had when they believed things like:
"A criticism of Montanism was that its followers claimed their revelation received directly from the Holy Spirit could supersede the authority of Jesus or Paul the Apostle"
Or
Thus, the Phrygians (Monatists) were seen as false prophets because they acted irrationally and were not in control of their senses.[47]
Also Montanism couldn't agree on whether they believed in a Trinity or Monarchianism.
Cool story Charles, I really could care less about what he thinks
Paragraph 3:
So now YOU have the standard and authority to judge as to which church is the most faithful, yet in the same paragraph you say that every church has a mix of truth and error. I thought Jesus only spoke of One Church? How can a church have error? I thought the gates of hades wasn't meant to prevail against Christ's Church? How can you know if a church is faithful or how do you quantify this? Which one of your 37382927 denominations is the most faithful? I would seriously like to know.
@@ГрозниВетар What I pointed out weren't just political, but theological differences, where Eastern Orthodox accuse one another of being heretics. If you'd bothered to watch the whole video, you'd know there aren't 4739182272 denominations. So watch the video and ask real questions, instead of just offering mockery.
@@ancientpathstvQuestion, what is the older scripture or church? There is only one church and its The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, known as orthodox and all u other don t have nor historical nor theological bases in apostolic church and for why u should try to answer first question. If u think u could without tradition have proper reading of scripture u are not only heretic but dmb too. Judeism is too nothing without written and unwritten tradition the scripture alone would be meaningless historically on material basis and theologically u could not decipher
@@nebitno5054 Did you watch the video? Jesus refuted the Jews oral traditions on the basis of the Scriptures. In the second century, Irenaeus said the Gnostics made your argument against the Scriptures.
When oral traditions add or conflict with Scripture that’s a problem for me. I am justified by faith alone in the finished work of Jesus on the cross where he suffered for my sin because I was guilty and he was the perfect Lamb of God who took away my sin. By faith in his shed blood I’m washed and cleansed…forgiven. Scripture says he became sin for us (2 Corinthians 5:21.)
Amen!
The fact that the Scriptures are God breathed means no oral traditions of humans that came after the Bible can ever supercede or conflict with the Bible...