**almost dead** "I... I have been always proud of you... From the first moment I have been proud of you... and It was my pride that blinded me. I loved you too much to see what you were becoming."
If you mean the Old Horde, then yes. If you mean the New Horde formed by Thrall, then no, his actions would go against everything the Horde nowadays stands for.
+Joe Kensei It's not quite as good and subtle as Kael'thas at 50%.. "I have not come this far to be stopped! ***The future I have planned will not be jeopardized!*** Now you will taste true power!" .. He sounds so confident and composed up until then, when he just loses it.. So good
KyleBJobey Ok, I listened to all his dialogue and you're right. He totally snaps... wow has lost its touch, it's all flashy and casual and leveling is a joke. The story isn't told in an indirect sense (which i love) it's so "in your face" like the audience is retarded. Tbh, you can make it LOOK flashy and cool (grom, thrall vs mannoroth) and still have it be meaningful.
Garrosh wasn't surprised because he knew he'd die against Thrall, just like the first time he stubbornly agreed to an interrupted Mak'gora earlier. But I do believe Thrall did cheat. Garrosh honoured his side of the duel, and while Thrall is a very good warrior, he's still mainly a shaman. Thrall took the opportunity to crush and kill Garrosh, honour be damned.
I just realized that Garrosh gave Thrall the chance to get up and finish their duel, and then Thrall did the equivalent of kicking someone in the nuts when they help you up and just straight up killed Garrosh.
@@stankobarabata2406 ench shamans are basically warriors though. And he didn’t use it till necessary which makes it feel wrong. Also the elements abandoning him after gives some justification to the dishonorable take
I know this is 7 years old but Garrosh definitely saw Thrall as a father/brother figure but always had doubts for his vision for the horde. I think he wouldn't have had pleasure of slaying Thrall but just another sacrifice to be made for the betterment of the horde.
@@stankobarabata2406 The elements do care about mortal issues, they were kinda pissed when the Orcs started a war against the Draeneis. They also told Nobundo that they would help him as long as his cause was fair. Back to the fight. Technically, Thrall didn't cheat since Garrosh didn't forbid him from using the elementals. But that was an unfair fight nonetheless. Mag'gorar is all about honor, you are expected to fight fair and square. Thrall as a Shaman is overwhelmingly stronger than Garrosh, and Garrosh knows it very well. In Pandaria, Garrosh used his Shamans to counter Thrall's shamanic power and forced Thrall to fight him as a warrior since he knew he would get clapped otherwise. Here, Thrall challenges Garrosh to a fight and Garrosh accepts it thinking Thrall would be honorable enough to fight him as a warrior. And indeed, Thrall fights like a warrior, at least at the beginning, but when he starts losing to Garrosh he abandons his warrior facade and starts calling for his homies to help him beat Garrosh. Was it illegal? Nope. Was it a dick move? Definitely. I didn't play Shadowlands and I don't know if the elements abandoned Thrall because of this fight. But even if they did, Thrall would still be capable of using them outside Azeroth since each world has its own elements. And reconciliation with the ones in Azeroth is still a possibility. Ner'zhul tried but failed because he was weak.
Thrall has the power of EYEBROWS. He is the only Orc to possess these powers to have facial hair above the eyes. And this gives him his godlike abilities.
Lore? He was raised as a fucking Gladiator, fough with the burning legion etc, and young orc defeted him. But thrall of course cheated :) Like Gul'dan in warcraft movie, irony.
Thrall was a Farseer ever since the beginning. The rules of the duel only benefited Garrosh and Garrosh alone. Thrall would never have won that fight, and Garrosh NEEDED to die.
Kayriel Well Thrall challenged him knowing very well what the rules are and how sacred the duel is. Thrall cheated and has no honor! He should have died that day.
thrall learned shamanism before he even form the Horde or find any of his remaining race... guess mak gora would never work for any class and is exclusive to warrior if you want it to be fair XD
Man this cutscene has such a beautiful symbol on Garrosh's death. He dies by the hands of the elements, the same place where he had met Thrall. The same place where he began his journey with us...
@@UA-cam_Enjoyerlol Yeah! How ironic, as his father challenged Gul'Dan to show the others he's a cheater with his fel magic...however, what honor is in challenging to a duel a physically weaker foe? Thrall on the other hand was a fool to challenge a stronger combatant, and also cheated when he could not prevail...and Garrosh was right. Thrall wanted him to lead the Horde by the old ways, because he had no f-ing idea what it meant to be an orc, or what was the old, true Horde really all about.
You can hear in Garrosh's voice that he is truly hurt because Thrall left him when he needed him the most. He was left without his mentor and succumbed to power, something most of us would probably do as well. A shame he got killed like this.
Ive seen this cinematic many times, but only just now did I notice Garrosh's voice break when he says "You LEFT ME!" I think both of them are right. Thrall did start Garrosh on the path that lead him to ruin, Thrall appointed him Warchief, young and inexperienced as the leader of an entire people. Garrosh's choices were his own, but he made them as you said without guidance, Thrall left to heal the broken world but he never thought of how Garrosh would handle power
@@Anthony-eo3ro that's why thrall decided to live in outland and just remain there because he acknowledge how a failure and disgrace he was to everyone
True, but at the time, he had a lot to tackle himself with the planet breaking apart xD. That said, Thrall should have kicked his butt out after the Cairne incident which was early on. Saurfang (if it HAD to be an orc Warchief), Cairne, or Vol'jin all would have been the best choices for leader though. He filled Garrosh's head with too much crap about how great Grom was when really he was one of the worst until the end.
Garrosh was charged with committing, or overseeing the commiting of these crimes: Genocide, murder, forced exodus of a population, enforced disappearance of individuals, enslavement, abduction of children, torture, killing of prisoners of war, rape and forced pregnancy, and wonton destruction of cities, towns, and villages not justified by military or civilian necessity. Don't think he can blame being an evil dictator on Thrall. That's all on him.
***** I do agree that it should have been left to both factions ultimately to kill him.... That's how it's been for all other faction "leaders" that I can remember that weren't just off'ed by another leader.... Onyxia used to be a high-rank in the human leadership, and both factions fought her. Both factions also fought Kael'Thas and Varimathras when they were enemies, Kael as a BC boss and Varimathras briefly in the Wrathgate quest-line before they removed it. It would've made sense for both factions to deal the death blow, not exclusively Thrall. But I loved this ending also, so I'm fine with both endings.
you have the brain of an orc if you didn't realize A: Thrall stated his fate was HIS own to decide so Varian was right. B: Thrall stated he's not alone he has the elements... Living Beings that burned, tossed, held, and executed him. Thrall didn't do this alone, nor did he choose his fate.
I just love the voice actor of Garrosh. The slight desperation is his voice when he talked about becoming warchief made the scene perfect. He wasn't much of a warhero, not shaman, not any kind of chosen one and had no kind of training in politics, just an orc who was too sick to fight. He hadn't even lived in Azeroth for that long so all its cultures were more or less foreign to him. And yet he was left with most important title of his alliance, an alliance which in his eyes was filled with weak and untrustworthy races. And Thrall knew this and he mostly wanted Garrosh to become sort of an poster boy for Horde because he did well in Northrend and was son of the most legendary orc in recent history. You can feel all that frustration, uncertainty and hatred through his voice. And the somber music that plays before and after the scene represents perfectly how twisted the whole scene actually was. It was Thrall who couldn't admit his mistakes and had to resort to cheating to erase his failed past. And to the last moment Garrosh was trying to do what he thought was right, without any doubt in his mind. And as results, element, the power Thrall was so proud of, left him. All in all, one of the deepest moments in otherwise shallow expansion.
I always viewed this scene as not merely being Garrosh vs. Thrall, but about two very different takes on what it means to be Horde. Garrosh comes from a world where war and conquest are the lifeblood, and those who don't fight are subjugated. Garrosh represents the Orcs at their most primal state, the way they had to be on Draenor. In a sense, Garrosh is the "purer" orc, a point not lost on his Mag'har origins. He is however an extremist and an Orc supremacist, a logical extension of his ceaseless pride and unwavering will. He will not admit defeat, even when it is inevitable. Thrall meanwhile stands for what the Orcs could be, a proud and noble warrior race that makes allies, not enemies. Thrall envisions a destiny for the Orcs beyond the conflict between the Horde and the Alliance. He seeks to move the Orcs beyond the brutality they relied on to survive in the past, and claim a greater place among the races of the Warcraft universe. However, he tends to trust too easily, and while he's made many allies and friends, some of his decisions and shortcomings have led to disastrous consequences; a fact that's not lost on him. Thrall killed Garrosh because in Thrall's eyes, the old ways of the Orcs cannot continue into the future. Garrosh's vision for the Horde, and indeed his entire outlook on the Orcish people, is simply incompatible with the place he feels they must aspire to. Thrall didn't merely fight to slay Garrosh, but rather he sought to defeat the darker aspects of Orcish culture, the things Garrosh stood for. For Horde players, Warlords of Draenor is a battle to save the Orcs from themselves.
+jaharned1 Depends on which version of the lore you read. Pre-WCIII, they really were a bunch of bloodthirsty brutes fighting amongst themselves when they had nothing left to kill until the portal opened. They retconned that into the whole demon-blood-made-us-crazy thing in WCIII and after. In that version of the lore, the orcs were a primarily shamanistic society before Gul'dan forced the shamans to abandon the elements in favor of demonic magic.
+ChiotVulgaire lol you got it wrong and most people here too, orcs were peaceful on draenor then demons came and fucked them up, but beforehand they minded their own business in their clans
Garrosh to Sylvanas - Eventually we all must stand before our maker and face judgement. Your day may come sooner than others... The irony of that statement...
I'm not so much questioning Thrall's honor as I am Blizzard's writing or ability to remember their own mythos. If Thrall really "cheated" on purpose as a last resort, he shoud've clearly acknowledged it. Here there is no mention of him breaking the rules or showing any sign of humiliation. What I'm suggesting is that Blizzard fucked up.
Blizzard does remember their mythos, but they decided to continue the story line in legion. Mild spoilers ahead: During the Broken Shore the elements stopped responding to Thrall. In the Horde Cinematic, you can see that the Doom hammer is not empowered. This is continued in the artifact quest line where Thrall gives you the doom hammer after a quest line since it is no longer responding after what he made them do on Draenor. Pretty much the elements have stopped letting Thrall control them after forcing them to kill Garrosh. This has happened before too. The elements stopped responding to the orcs when they took the powers of the fel and committed genocide on the Dranei
+Dave Gurl Thanks for the input. I am aware of these developments in Legion, here's what I have to say: There are two potential scenarios in decision making by Blizzard. The first is what I originally suggested, they simply forgot, and are now trying to smooth it over with Thrall losing his powers. Did Thrall not know the rules of duel? If he did, why did he willingly break them without expressing any sign of humiliation? The other possibility is that they did this on purpose in order to lead up to Thrall losing his powers, therefore giving Doomhammer to players. The problem with this is, again, why did Thrall not mention that he was in the wrong for using magic? There was no clear indication in the moments immediately after the fight that Thrall did something extremely dishonorable. This decision by Blizzard banked on the ignorance of the majority of players who wouldve seen nothing wrong with the outcome of the duel, and successfully allow Blizzard to later take away Doomhammer from Thrall in the most contrived of story telling methods.
Then when being tortured in Shadow Lands he breaks free out of pure spite and rage and STILL is for the horde. Garrosh was the best thing that happened to WoW's story over the years.
I always thought of Garrosh as a tragic hero, rather than a true bad guy. He was a hothead, but also an honorable Warchief for a while during Cataclysm. (Remember Stonetalon Mountain?) He wasn't fit to be a Warchief, and from the start, several Horde members have been trying to use Garrosh for their own means.
+liam berry So wait... committing genocide against a peaceful nation, banishing those that opposed his ideals, and awakening and Old God so he could be a tyrant was for the Horde???
+liam berry So wait... committing genocide against a peaceful nation, banishing those that opposed his ideals, and awakening and Old God so he could be a tyrant was for the Horde???
+Katharine Anne Garrosh did grow up consumed by what he believed was weak emotions (doubt, despair and fear). An old god that controls emotions? Can turn cowards into warriors? Sounds fine to me....... Garrosh saw the sha as a idea to turn the horde into an unstoppable killing machine, warriors that can not be overcome with fear, despair and doubt, like he did
This one goes down as one of the most captivating cinematic's i've witnessed yet. I'll never forget it when it happened in game. I was not expecting it (didn't really read the quest dialogues)
Thrall: You must answer for your crimes Garrosh! Garrosh: All I made I made for the horde Thrall: You failed the horde! Garrosh: You made me Headchef You left me! too pick up your pizza! you failed meeee! You never had the recipe of a true pizza chef Thrall: I do not rely on toppings alone Garrosh. my pizza is all around you! Garrosh: Thralll!!!! You made my pizza what it is Thrall: No. you chose your own recipe! What am i doing with my life
Who else here was sad watching this and then going to see him after the cinematic. I stood there for half an hour depressed, he was a friend to us all in Nagrand, when we first met him in Garadar. Then our commander in Borean Tundra, our faithless and strong leader of Northrend. Soon our strong Warchief of the Horde, our leader, gone mad with power. Finally our enemy, a disgrace upon this world of Azeroth. But he will always be a friend to us all, that young Orc warrior we met while leveling in Outland and thinking that we would never see him again. We were so wrong.
Yes, but people will still flame and hate you for pointing out that Thrall cheating was downright dishonorable by orcish culture and rules. The Mak'gora is sacred, the rules are clear and breaking them is essentially spitting on orc culture as a whole.
The first time I ever saw this scene was back when it was leaked prior to MoP's launch. I guessed then that this scene would lead to Gul'Dan raising Garrosh's corpse as the first Death Knight, instead of Teron'Gor. Sad to see it never happened, would of been a great last shock to deliver at Hellfire Citadel, with Garrosh yet again standing in the way.
+John Santiago no man as I said garrosh true failed the horde he turned his back for power thrall never do that the horde made him strong as he is today garrosh failed the horde and thrall especially his father who is a hero of the orc
Call me Arthas for bringing this comment back from the grave, but I'm in the same boat. When I first saw this cinematic play out, I cheered with joy watching MY Warchief slay the false one with the power of the Elements.. And I remained happy about it for a long while.. But eventually, I was standing by Garrosh a second time, on my orc shaman, and started to think about what he said. I went back, watched other videos and read other people's comments... And I realized that Garrosh was right. He was a warrior through and through. His heart and soul were forged for battle, not for politics. He was a tactician on the battlefield, but not in a throne room... And Thrall still thrusted the mantle of Warchief upon him, despite Garrosh believing he was not ready.. Thrall even had another in mind as his successor above Garrosh, but due to his untimely death in Northrend, Dranosh would never become Warchief, and instead, Garrosh would. Despite Thrall knowing full well that both Vol'Jin and Cairne had the ability to lead, he still wanted Garrosh as Warchief... And then Thrall simply left the Horde to its own devices.. After the Cataclysm, Garrosh WAS actually a good Warchief. Harsh, ruthless, and intimidating, but a good Warchief.. He had not yet forsaken honor. I went back recently and replayed the Cata Stonetalon Mountains questline, and at the end, after all that had happened, Garrosh was furious at what Krom'gar had done. He was furious over the deaths of innocents, and even quoted Varok Saurfang.. And his dialogue in Silverpine to Sylvanas.. I asked myself, what the hell happened... This Garrosh had so much potential. And now here he lies, mangled and dead in the fields of his homeland..
If Garrosh remained the Warchief, the horde would rule the world. There would be no Battle for Azeroth, but theres a good chance the horde alone wouldn't stop the Legion.
agree with lozfreak 222 Blizzard basically turned garrosh from a honorable warrior into a monster for plot reasons, and that sucks (since hes my husbando)
And now Thrall is letting Sylvanas burn the world tree in the name of the Horde. Yeah. He's a lazy neet who prefers to smoke weed and enjoy his retirement while the world burn
Turmoil That may seem so, but physical prowess has been demonstrated to triumph over magic more than once in Warcraft. The rules of a Mak'gora, like the duel seen here, don't forbid use of magic. So by default it's not cheating.
+Ultimaton100 If you actually read the rules, each combatant is allowed one weapon, and no body armor.Thrall, for one, wore armor, and two, using magic is counted as an additional weapon....Not only did thrall use doomhammer, he also cheated by using his Green Jesus magic.
01:21 is a straigh up reference to Kung Fu Panda where Shifu is fighting Tai Lung. Both are in the same position, the movements are very similar and what they say is almost identical + the rhythm is the same-ish. Isnt it amazing how animators and artist in general take stuff from one another and transform it completely? I find it fascinating.
If I may people who are arguing about Garrosh and Thrall, Firstly you must understand where Garrosh comes from emotionally. Think about it, why does he have all that rage? simple. Thrall dumped all that stress and responsibility on him all at once to lead 5 different races and to safeguard them as their leader and protector, on top of that he wasn't ready, he was still far too young if you think about it. And he's one thing that may have set Garrosh over the edge after that load of crock, Thrall is the closest thing he had to a mentor and father figure, his only family if you think about it, he may be an orc but they're intelligent creatures just like humans with emotions as you can plainly see by his rage. Thrall leaving him was like Thrall abandoning him. That covers my Emotional Explanation, now for Thrall's side of the story, After Garrosh started to commit these war crimes and acts of cruelty, Thrall quickly begun to see that Garrosh had to be put down and that it was his fault completely that Cairn died, so naturally Thrall felt he had to clean up the mess he made out of guilt and responsibility. I have no doubts in my mind that Thrall regrets Killing Garrosh even after all the Crimes he commited much like Jaina still loved Arthas even after he died, as seen if you get her locket I believe it was? and deliver it to her. the quest details at the end will explain more, for I can't remember much of it. my point is that every Evil character has emotional back story that leads them to become who they are, Arthas became insane because of what was happening to people and he lost his will at the end of the campaign in Warcraft 3 reign of chaos. Illidan tried to only help his people in his own way and was punished for his deeds that ACTUALLY saved his people in the long run, but instead of being praised he was banished in a jail cell for 10,000 years straight, by his own brother no less, who I may add married and stole away his crush Tyrande Whisperwind. there's a reason why they all turned insane. Garrosh being no exception. I Loved Thrall since Warcraft 3, but honestly I want Grommosh to Decapitate his Head or just Kill Thrall in the most Agonizing way possible, Thrall needs to take into account that HE did infact cause Garrosh to become what he was, to take responsibility where it is due. He is just as Guilty as Garrosh, I hope you all see why and understand my point for that fact. Take the time to meditate and see why I see it like that and maybe just maybe you all will have a better understanding of why garrosh turned Evil. True that Arthas after the Human campaign had no control over himself really until after he merged with Ner'zul suppressing the His will for as long as he could and fighting inside internally against the darkness that had taken his soul.take that into account that he had no power over his own body. if anything he was nothing more than a favored vessel for Ner'Zul. It would seem that Arthas, Garrosh and Illidan all shared the same reasoning that lead to their downfall: They did what they did for their People, hoping to save them and strengthen them so that they may see another day, instead losing their minds because they're constantly betrayed by the one's they love and care for, thus sealing their Fate and "Destiny" as Thrall so gently put it. A bitch slap to the face would suit half of the current leaders in the warcraft universe today to say the least.
Such a long and nice post and no rate or replies? Pity :/ Now to the topic. I agree that Garrosh had his reasons to lose it. And to be fair, I believe Blizzard did try to show in Cataclysm that Garrosh had honor even behind his rage, for example his reaction when he found out that Horde general in stonetalon mountains bombs druid's thus killing innocent man, women and children. Then his reaction to Sylvana's way of bringing dead ALLIANCE (or I guess any) corpses back to life, and replied that doing something like that was against nature itself. However, even after all that, Troll starting zone in Cata showed that not all Horde leaders wanted to follow Garrosh knowing his ways; Rage, wanting alliance blood, etc.. so Garrosh banished Vol'jin and his kind from Orgrimmar. He also had a serious argument with Cairne Bloodhoof and ended up killing him in a duel (doesn't really matter much about the poison) Also, before all that, in wrath of the lich king, it was shown many times how Garrosh hated Alliance and couldn't control his rage. Yes, Thrall was there to control Garrosh, but even Thrall couldn't always do it, that and Thrall couldn't always hold Garrosh's hand. Thrall found Garrosh broken and took him in. Told him about how great his father was and gave Garrosh a pride to carry. However, I feel that Garrosh was too proud of his father and thus saw himself higher anyone none orc. Yes, Thrall felt responsible for what Garrosh become, but I doubt there was much Thrall could do. He was with Garrosh all the time and perhaps saw more than he should have in Garrosh. That is why he made a mistake when Cataclysm hit and thus Thrall HAD to leave. His mistake was making Garrosh the warchief, although he did had some reasons to do so. Still, leaving Garrosh like that was a mistake that turned then whole Horde upside down. Thrall also felt guilty for Cairn's death. So yes, Thrall does have something to do with how Garrosh turned out to be, but that is why he felt guilty. However, Garrosh wouldn't try to control his anger and would do anything to spill blood. That was HIS path, and not Thrall's mistake. Now my point of view? I'm happy Thrall actually showed his power. I don't think we ever saw Thrall fighting since warcraft III. And honestly, I was amazed. After Cataclysm, I so Thrall as just a weak character who runs around saving the world and being kind. But here it showed all the guilt he felt and how he was fixing his mistakes. Garrosh on the other hand simply wouldn't learn. Even when he was standing before the Pandarian trial. He simply couldn't care less and would just try to piss as much people before death as possible. So Garrosh was kinda right when saying that Thrall made him what he was, but Thrall was also kinda right when replied -"You chose your own destiny" Well, at least that's my personal opinion about all this :p
Well not everyone is gifted with insight into the psyche of others. I agree we all choose our own destiny, this is true even in life. I respect your opinion as you respect my own as well. I just thought I'd point out that it's both Thrall's and Garrosh's fault that these events happened in the story. And Thrall is one of the best Characters I've seen, I take it you've seen the Video on Gul'dan offering the blood again to Grommosh right? I think Thrall may have his revenge yet. Garrosh could of been something more than a Tyrant, however being warchief at a young age is like being married at a young age, it just won't work out, 75% of the time. He was not ready or disciplined enough to be a leader, allowing how he felt control and dictate his life, or as Thrall said he had chosen his own destiny because of this. I do Appreciate your Insight Friend because it's not very clear to some others why he turned out the way he did. From a Gutless Orc who was dishonored by his own bloodline to the Brutal Warrior who would become a tyrant who wanted Mass genocide. If you have any more thoughts on the matter please discuss them, I'd always love to pick another person's brain on the subject.
Well, like i said, I personally more on the fence about who's fault it was that Garrosh went insane, but I do agree with you as well. I think in the end it all comes down to where one's blood origins are. What I mean is, Thrall is the son of Durotan and Durotan's clan was pretty much the wisest and concentrated more on survival. Other clans were more brutal and cared for (their) honor and war. Now, in our time, Thrall made many friends like Vol'jin and Cairne and united the horde. He was also a shaman and thus was wiser than a warrior, so people listened to him. Garrosh on the other hand is a son of a warlord. He is the kind of a guy you'd want on your side on the battlefield. This is where in my opinion it all went south. When Thrall had to leave, he could make Vol'jin or Cairne the warchief. But instead picked Garrosh believing that horde would favor a warlord as a new leader. I think there's even a saying -"Wise men lead and strong men follow" However, I do agree that Garrosh could have become an interesting character and although felt "finally" when he died, I can't but wonder - had many people enjoyed Garrosh as a warchief in Cata, would blizzard have a different story for him and all warcraft universe, or was it suppose to end like this in the end one way or the other?
Kirk Fogg It was bit of both in terms of whose fault it was in the case of Garrosh. Yes Thrall did make him Warchief (and by no means am I trying to support Thrall's statement, I just wish to shed some light on Thrall's side) but remember that it was Garrosh's choice to forsake honor and bomb Theramore. It was HIS choice to claim the Heart of Yshaarj to taint his people more than the fel blood. And it was HE who decided to give the Iron Horde guns and technology to fight their enemies rather than doing it the honorable way (e.g. melee battle, not bombs and tanks everywhere). In the end, had he not forsaken his honor, had he not bombed Theramore, he would still be our warchief and he would've made the Horde greater than ever before.
Thrall used his powers, there is no rule saying he couldn't... Not to mention that Garrosh's imprisonment and twisting of the Elements kinda made his fate poetic.
Every time I see the ending, I think of Peter vs the Chicken from family guy, as Thrall is walking away. Who else wished they'd cut to Garrosh and see him with his eyes squinting in rage???
In fact Thrall did made him who he is. If you know any lore Thrall is a real bitch and Garrosh even begd him to not become warchief as he is a man of war and not diplomacy. And that it was not a good idea to give the mantle of warchief to him. Majority of you just jump into hate train and hate him for no reason at all. When Garrosh took over the horde there was all kind of mess within it's ranks. No food, no resource, night elfs shut off the trade with them, cairne death which was not Garroshs fault and he did not want to poison him as you may think he did. And it was Cairne who challenged Garrosh into fight. Garrosh deserved better, but it seems Blizzard likes to kill all of the characters who had potentially great story....
Yea, thrall put him in charge. But he alone chose to do what he did. All the war crimes he stood for. For not to mention being a nazi orc racist towards any race that is not redskinned nor orcish. Only thing Garrosh deserves is to rot in the very same hell Arthas is rotting in.
And now they made Yrel, the poop of a "loving all girl type" character. Lets see how long is that going to last, not to mention Blizzard rushing her trough expansion and she climbing up to top ranks too fast. I honestly couldn't give less of a fuck who she is and how she is going to evolve. There are plenty of other cool characters that deserve some kind of love. And one of them was Orgrim, so I'd say fuck you Blizzard for killing him of like pure rat. Way to go, it seems Metzen is completly out of ideas and just follows the Game of Throne- lets kill every cool character in our books that should sell. If some one does it don't be a bitch and do the same with your own books Metzen it's getting old. And boring, and if you are so eager to kill of some characters then start with Tyrandre that bitch has it coming for years now. To kill off Maraad, Orgrim and Garrosh in same expansion. Well, well played well played indeed...
Michael Rivers I know, but sadly he is still in warcrafts version of hell. As he said "I can only see darkness" before he dies after the curse is lifted. So it's a tragic story indeed.
"You chose your own destiny." In the beginning we see Garrosh in Draenor and after they take down Mannaroth Gul'dan says "This was not our destiny." Garrosh did indeed chose his own destiny.
Has anyone mentioned that there's kind of a parallel between what Garrosh screams at Thrall and what he probably wishes he could say to his father? "You made me warchief! You left me to pick up your pieces! You failed me!!" and "You made me what I am!" Garrosh lived his entire life in his father's shadow, having never even truly gotten to meet him, carrying the burden of not only Grom's failures but also his victories. Grom unwittingly doomed his people only to redeem them at the cost of his own life, and had to abandon Garrosh as a child to accomplish these things. Garrosh grew up not wanting to repeat his father's mistakes, but not wanting to fail his father's reputation either, and was forced to become the Warchief in Thrall's place at possibly the worst of times when the world was literally coming apart.What choice did he have when forced into a position that he didn't want, with everyone else who had supported Thrall not providing him with any advice other than insulting or threatening him? He was abandoned, betrayed, manipulated, and scolded no matter what he did, all the while pressured under the weight that his father unintentionally placed on his shoulders. Garrosh became what circumstances made out of him; he never had the opportunity or the choice to forge his own path. I don't care what people say about Garrosh, everything he said to Thrall was absolutely true, and Thrall saying "you chose your own destiny" was bullshit. Honestly this cinematic pissed me off so much that I stopped playing my shaman, and I've been playing that character since Wrath.
Hamsterloki Apart from that Thrall cheated heavily during the mok'gora, and it seems like he forced the elements thus sticking his fingers into dark shamanism. The elements only give what is needed and nothing more. Garrosh's death was extremely excessive and overkill, thus the elements abandoned Thrall cause he forced them.
Bryson Chatman Yes, but he didn’t know any better. As he said himself: You mad me into what I am. It’s like putting a child in a position of making tough decisions. If the child chooses wrong it’s not really their fault since no one taught the child anything about those kinds of decisions. Garrosh didn’t want to be warchief but Thrall pushed him.
Up until mop he was a good warchief during that xpac he lost it and forsake his honor thrall meant that he chose to fall under their pressure and break to become all the things they called him. Thrall tested him by making warchief and in thralls eyes he failed him. I personally don’t think thrall should’ve put that much faith in him when he was a young person who only went through one war. That part I agree but garrosh chose to go evil and forsake his honor he once had thrall said that bc he wasn’t there when the events of mop happened he was in nagrand or some shit. Garrosh is misunderstood but he fell to the people discouraging him he had more potential then that. I agree with you any normal person would break at that point but garrosh was not normal he should’ve ignored what they said and be the warchief he thought thrall should always be.
When the Warcraft movie premiered, I distinctly remember people sitting near me saying aloud, "He's a cheater just like Thrall" when Gul'dan used fel during a Mok'gorah.
Personally, I suspect that blizzard only made garrosh go crazy because of the lash back from the fan base over making him warchief. Soooo they threw him under the bus in MoP by ignoring all his previous character traits about being an honorable warrior, and made him a crazy tyrant. Don't you just love consistent writing?
Solaxe S Yes. Characters can change. But that change has to come with the natural flow of a story. Garrosh's didn't. He literally went from "Honor. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it." to "IMA KILL THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD!" between expansions for no reason. When you have fans who are debating whether or not the char is bipolar, you know you have a problem.
david boell I wouldn't say "no reason". The Sha's corruption had a big part of it. Think of it as another form of Arthas/Lich King. Their stories are very much alike, but with less side-story rabbits to chase.
david boell Even when he became a tyrant Garrosh never lost his sense of honour and pride. The "I'ma kill everyone" thing was due to the fact he was betrayed by everyone around him - representatives of the leaders of the other horde races,- forced into doing a job that he never wanted and knew he couldn't do and abandoned by all his friends. An example is in the above video. It's a makgora. He didn't cheat. He didn't wear body armour. He didn't break every single rule like Thrall. Thrall didn't even give him a witness. It was a sham. But he still went with it and abided by the rules. His honour wasn't tarnished. Thralls was.
thrall has been limiting and hold himself back for far too long when it comes to garrosh and many other fights. It was about time he used his full ability. In a reality like Warcraft, if you're a physical warrior who cant handle such things, you get the death that was coming to you. Grom killed a pitlord, grom's father was crushed between the teeth of a collosal priomordial gronn and still found the strength to cleave its head open (it died before he did as it fell to the ground). Garrosh has no excuses. "honor" has gotten them nowhere except into larger and larger messes. Some pragmatism was very welcome at this point.
Yes...THIS. Fuck honor, Garrosh was the "Adolf Hitler" of Warcraft - driven crazy by his youth and his fate, gone insane, turned monster. Such beings must be stopped, no matter WHAT or how great the price....
first off all, "reality" like warcraft? LOL. Secondly, Thrall never had to challenge garrosh to a mak'gora, if he just wanted to kill him, he could have just done that. This was an act of cowardice, and nothing else. Oh shit, garrosh is actually a real warrior, guess I will have to call on all my friends (the elements) to kill him instead. I used to like Thrall, but this was some next level BS, very dissapointing
Kim Andre Michelsen you dont know what the fuck you talkin about. yes garrosh was real warrior, and he used his warrior abilities. and guess what ? thrall was a real shaman, and he used HIS abilities. mak`gora is not only for warriors, you know ?
Ismar Sarajlic Mak'gora forbids outside help. Mak'gora forbids armor. Mak'gora forbids more than one weapon. Thrall cheated. Outside help from the elements, Doomplate armor, the use of earth and air as weapons.
anonemuss93 Thrall didn't receive outside help from the elements, he *called* upon the elements because he has the ability and power to do so. He's a *shaman*. He's capable to call the elements because he has been trained and worked hard to be capable to do so, much like a warrior works to refine his weapon skills. Moot point. Both Garrosh and Thrall had metal-protecting things on them, Garrosh was "more naked" because he's ALWAYS "more naked", he fought the player and Durotan/Yrel "dressed" in the same way. Regardless, none of them was completely deprived of body armor, so none of them followed the rule. Earth and Air are part of his powers as a Shaman. The rule simply says both must carry one weapon, obviously the physical one, and Thrall did so. It doesn't say anything about elements be weapon-like tools counting as additional "weapons" in the fight.
Watching this almost a decade on makes me realize how much potential WoD had. Garrosh was such a good character. I really wish Thrall would've gotten what he deserved.
Meh. Garrosh was used up as a villain and deserved to get his head caved in. When someone's plan involves using time travel to create an army then they're done, because that's the sort of idea a comic book supervillain would come up with.
I felt like Thrall's quote near the end should have been something along the lines of "Yes, I put you on that throne, and I laid the burden of Warchief upon your shoulders. But your actions are your own, Garrosh," and then kill him. That would've fit better.
The more I watch the cinematic the more I'm convinced that Thrall lost his powers and was rejected by the hammer for an entirely different reason. On AU Draenor, we already know that Thrall is having issues using this shaman powers.Yet in the cinematic he is using them without issue. Also he started using them without first calling on the elements of earth, wind, and water (even in Orgrimmar he didn't call on fire when he tried to face Garrosh), yet his first elements attack was fire based. I think that in his determination to stop Garrosh he pulled a "dark shaman" on the elements without realizing it. That makes more sense to me why the elements and hammer would reject him. The elemental lords/furies have no reason to care at all about fleshing/mortal "rules" and "honor" . They existed LONG before mortals even existed or their sense of honor. More over, in the Shaman quest for the Doomhammer Thrall says at the end he has to leave and meditate(?) on what he's going to do next. This suggests that if he did act as a dark shaman, he still isn't aware of it. Besides, every hero need to go through a "dark night of the soul" and have a redemption story. Hopefully Thrall's will be epic and restore is bad ass reputation, followed by his" "retiring" (perhaps due to an injure like loosing an arm) and become what he was always meant to be, chieftain and Shaman to the Frost wolves. This way he can still be in-game but out of the way of the new generation of heroes.
@@yutyrannus5209 Actually after thinking about this more, I don't think Thrall cheated or unconsiously did a dark Shaman act. Looking back on Thrall's history you may recall what happened just before he and Aggar got married. Thrall mind, body and spirit got split into the 4 elements and Aggar had to do a whole quest to get the 4 aspects to remerge. However, what if his spirit didn't fully remerge? While separated he was effectively a spirit of fire, earth, water, and wind. He might very well still have the same level of influence over those elements as a regular spirit of those elements. This may be why he seemingly lost his connection to the spirits, because he kept asking them to do things that he was now capable of doing for himself (but didn't know this) and they got tired of his asking them to do it. This ties into his unexpected ability to hold back the tidal wave Janna Proudmore was going to use to kill everyone in Orgrimar even though she was using the Focusing Iris which should have made it impossible for Thrall to stop. There, as with his battle with Garrosh, he unconsciously used his latent power. A shaman is forbidden from using their shaman powers in a mok'gara since it normally would require the aid of an outside 3rd party (the spirits) and so make it dishonerable. However, if Thrall was using his own spirit to manipluate the elements, then he is not cheating. He just used his own personal strength (spiritual) the same Garrosh was using his muscles. When Thrall managed to release himself with lightning from the Jailer's chains, there were no spirits around to aid in this. He did it on his own and is still too thick headed to realize what is really going on since he probably believes it's not possible.
***** Because some people need to wake up and realize that his character had gotten stale. Seriously...the guy has been causing major issues for three expansions straight. It was about time he was taken out of the spotlight.
***** No, the Horde and Alliance are not actually constant enemies. They have been, consistently, drawn together to fight against foes more powerful than either one alone -- after the Scourge washed across Lordaeron to pave the way for the Burning Legion, it was only by combing their forces that Thrall, Jaina and the Night Elves were able to defeat Archimonde and stop him from draining the power of the World Tree. The same thing has happened when the Horde, Alliance, and many other factions have banded together to stop forces like Kil'Jaeden, the Lich King, Deathwing and now even Garrosh. Yes, the Horde and Alliance have been at war upon many occasions, but they have also fought and died together numerous times as well, and in doing so, they have slowly come to realize that their wars have only brought greater destruction as was evident in Pandaria, eventually leading them to understand that they need not be enemies and they can actually achieve peace by working with one another. That being said, everyone in the Alliance is still a noob, and that really just applies to players, not necessarily characters -- I can tolerate characters, but those damned gnomes. They need to be eaten. Every last one of them.
Hermaeus Mora Everyone in the Alliance is still a noob? My server begs to differ. The Horde there do nothing but go around killing low levels. My guild is organized specifically to kill them and they put up no sort of fight at all. ***** Him being a douche is fine...but it's been three straight expansions, come on now.
Really? Love him or hate him u surely can't be happy he is gone? He must be the most loved/hated character in the game... If u love him, u miss him, if u hate him, u might miss hating him and having someone u want to kill?
A horde that faced its enemies head on and didn't shirk away from those who have persecuted us for years. The horde that actually valued the strength that the horde represented and the perseverance to live on when faced with enemies like the Alliance. Lead by a warchief who had the mantle thrust upon him in the horde's most trying days, and still managed to raise a war effort that had not been seen in many years.
Aaron Bachle Garrosh Hellscream's Horde was never the true Horde, the real true Horde. I understand that now. The Horde is not just about strength. It is also about honor and unity. Garrosh lost his way, and let hatred, fear, and bloodlust guide him. He turned on all the other races of the Horde that were not his own. He treated his allies as enemies until they finally did become his enemies. He even condemned those of his own race he saw as unworthy to death. Thrall was right, he failed the Horde. He failed us all. And he finally paid the ultimate price for everything he did.
Dapper Changeling Do some Horde quests, Garrosh actually killed his own high ranked Orcish underling because they were killing innocent people. He even warned Sylvanas to not act like the Lich King. He dares to talk smack about Varian. He is a true warrior Orc. Gives no shit about what other think about him.
Anyone remember Garrosh speaking to Krom'gar? "Honor," Krom'gar, "No matter how dire the battle....never forsake it." Overlord Krom'gar, you have disgraced the Horde. You have brought shame to us as a people. Even though Garrosh pissed of everybody in Cataclysm he was still working for the Horde. He was not a peace loving warchief and he was a battle-hardened general, a tactical master from Northrend AND he hated the Alliance. He wanted to secure his Horde by gaining territory, In Mists he forsake any honor orc have and used tactics he wouldn't use before and thats where everybody was like "Ok, he has to go." In chosing Mak'gora Thrall bound Garrosh to fight by the rules. As MPTotalDrama wrote in his comment the rules are next - Each participant is allowed one weapon. - A blessing of this weapon by a shaman of their choosing is permitted, but not required. - Body armor is forbidden. - Each participant must have at least one witness." In conclusion, after i have been playing WoW for 6 years as Horde i must say this. Garrosh turned into a terrible person and has to be stopped, but if you call for a duel of honor you have to stick by the rules. Thrall cheated in the end and won. I don't know much about the lore in WoD since i am getting it by the end of this week but i hope Grom gets his chance at Thrall and kills him. I am tired of Thralls character getting into everything.
where in the rules says he cant use his shamanistic powers? i really dont consider the elements a weapon, since its his power thats manipulating them, i can consider thrall using the elements as twisting the rules in his favor but not as much as cheating, since a shamanistic blessing to the weapons is allowed so the elements in battle are not forbbiden, and the armor thrall was using i think is only there to save time by not making a new tharll model without it, just for the model they didnt take it off
Actually, there weren't any cheats here... Mak'gora is Mak'gora here, but under the rules that were changed by Thrall while he was a Warchief on Azeroth (Traditionally, it is to the death, but under Warchief Thrall's rule it became a non-lethal combat, similiar to Warsong's Mak'Rogahn. Participants can choose to forgo this change.[1] However, even when operating under the old rules, the victor can choose to spare the loser's life.)... Source: WoWpedia --- Mak'gora: Issued by Thrall to Garrosh Hellscream. This was a continuation of the duel between the two that happened just before the Scourge Invasion, but the old rules were used. Garrosh lost and was killed by Thrall.
funny you mentioning Garrosh in Cata, given he tipped the Alliance off to what ship Thrall was on when he was heading for the Maelstrom. Remember that ship the Alliance was blowing the hell out of when the Goblins came up on them accidentally? that was Thrall's. Garrosh literally was trying to kill him that early.
I mean he tried to doom pandaria just in the recent past. I feel like that is pretty wrong lol. Not to mention turning on everyone and killing anyone in the way
Though I am with Thrall that Garrosh chose his own destiny as Warchief, I did feel for him when he shouted ' -YOU- make me Warchief! -YOU- left me, to pick up -YOUR- pieces! YOU! FAILED! MEEEEEEH! ' You could feel the actual hurt in his voice. And I seem to recall that Garrosh himself told Thrall that he was best suited on the battlefield, that he wasn't fit to be leader of the Horde. Sure, Thrall left him advisors still... And I feel like Garrosh had potential to be such a great character, brutal in battle, but always honourable, like he was in WotlK and Cataclysm ( where he even quotes Saurfang before tossing Krom'gar off the rock for doing basically the same thing that he later did to Theramore himself). Yet from Tides of War onwards he's suddenly Gardolf Hitlerscream with his ' orc masterrace'-rhetoric...
What rule is he breaking? The rules were laid out in a few books and "no magic" was not one of them. Even then, the rules laid out have been changed in previous Mak'gora. It's not always for leadership, it's not always to the death, etc. The only rule you could maybe say he broke was bringing in outside help. Since Shaman powers require you to *ask* for help from intelligent entities AKA the elements. Not some vague force like the light or arcane. But that's about it.
No, firstly he breaks the rule to arrange a person to view the fight from both sides to ensure either don't cheat by using armor (thrall) or other outside forces (thrall) so he broke 3 . To further this Blizzard even continued it up by causing the elements to no longer serve him LITERALLY due to this. Rules of Orcish Mak'gora "Both participants must use only one weapon" - Thrall used his hammer, fire, earth, wind and lightning, "Both must have a witness" Thrall was ment to arrange it and didn't. So finally "Both must use no body armor" Thrall used full. So Basically Garrosh was cheated completely.
tickipooh I'd point out that Garrosh was also wearing armor (Gauntlet and plate belt) so he cheated on that front too. Just less so than Thrall. Neither side had a witness. I don't see how it was specifically Thralls responsibility to arrange witnesses for them both. I'll give you the outside help part though since the elements are intelligent beings though. It's worth mentioning also that the rules have been changed before on multiple occasions. They are not always the same and seem to be agreed upon between the combatants before hand. Also, Thrall used Shaman powers during his first Mak'gora with Garrosh in Orgrimmar. No one complained despite there being a cities worth of spectators. You'd think they would if it were really against the rules. It's shoddy writing on the writers part if true. Because the elements didn't abandon him back then either for "cheating" during the Mak'gora.
I did say "body" armor so no Thrall cheated and Garrosh was in the right. Not only that Thrall was the one who made the duel so he should have arranged the witnesses which he did not. The duel in Org was not a Mak'gora, hence why they were not fighting to the death and both wore armor. And to further my point the elements count as 4 weps due to each aspect of em. The base rules of a Mak'gora do not change and the ones I listed (each one thrall broke) were basic non changeable ones.
Mak'gora is traditionally supposed to be a one-weapon duel. Thrall used his shamanic magic. Breaking these rules was very out-of-character. He's an honorable orc, and I think he should have died like one.
Thrall had an ethical decision to make regarding whether or not to allow Garrosh to live. Whether or not he broke a traditional rule is a moot point. The needs of many outweigh the wants of a few, so to speak. Thrall was ridding the world of a genocidal lunatic, which in my book mitigates the trespass of a broken rule.
To orcs, their honor is everything. Even more important than the lives of their entire clan. It doesn't matter how horrible Garrosh was, he should not have killed him like that. Thrall should have died, bloodied and beaten on the battlefield. As true orcs should.
@@MoRNiNGSTaR14125 Dude, why are you making such a huge deal out of it? He clearly meant to put 'whiny'. If you want to get on his case in such an immature manner for a simple misspelling, more than likely due to an autocorrect buggerup, then by that logic he'd have every right to call you a troglodyte just for saying 'erry time' instead of 'every time'. Chill out.
+jaharned1 He was reluctant, only because he wasn't political savvy, but he was told to listen to his advisers. Thrall trusted Garrosh to fill his stead while he joined the Earthen Ring. Bad choice on Thrall's part, but he couldn't have foreseen Garrosh going insane. Not to mention Garrosh did some really shitty things, even before MoP and WoD. Remember when he evicted everyone who wasn't an orc or a Tauren and then proceeded to kill Cairne? And when he undermined every other Horde leader? I understand that you can't win them all, but if you treat those who are supposed to be your equals as less than yourself and completely demean them, you're not doing a very good job. Not to mention that the Hellscreams and the Warsong clan are KNOWN for their violence and bloodthirst. But honestly, he hadn't noticed from all those stories that his father had been enslaved and died for that same hunger for power? Maybe he should have tried to reform his ways to properly work beside the ENTIRE Horde instead of dismissing those who wanted peace as weak? He's a war-mongering, racist, extremist, power hungry jerk who didn't listen to his advisers, threw out or killed anyone who opposed him, and then blamed Thrall for things that were his own doing. He might not have been ready to take on such a responsibility, but it doesn't excuse his actions against the Pandaren or anyone else for that matter. What Thrall did was in his right when Garrosh turned his back on the Horde instead of owning up to his actions like a big boy. He basically committed genocide, and you're pegging him as innocent? Dude.
And Garrosh then tried to have Thrall killed by tipping the Alliance off. Ever wonder how they found out what ship he was on in the Goblin intro cinematic? that was Garrosh. this is Garrosh doing that when Thrall's trying to save the fucking WORLD.
"You never had the strength of a true warrior." Nah, he only bested Orgrim Doomhammer in single combat when he was young, a feat only Durotan himself accomplished.
The use of magic is very touchy subject in Warcraft. For a moment, i felt like the chat did and yelled "THRALL TOTALLY CHEATED" but then I had to step back and dug a little deeper into the rich lore that pre-existed, before the damn movie. Okay, so before the existence of the movie, the "using of magic" was never specified for Mok'Gora. However, knowing Orcish lore, and their fall with Fel magic, one can assume that using fel is considered cheating. To begin, it's demon powers that the user has taken or digested. It is literally one with the user, corrupting them from the inside out. This speaks against their sacred traditions, to our next point, the Elements. Again, taking from Orcish lore, we know that Shamans were the primary spellcasters for the Orcish clans. They were revered as elders, and viewed as people that held great power in their clans. (Especially when they gathered together once a year). HOWEVER, the question we need to ask is, is Shamanism considered magic? If we take a moment and look around, there is another class with a similar position. Druids. Druids worship nature, becoming one with it. It is a power provided by the living things around them. The night elves do not consider it as magic, as the use of "arcane" magic was banned from Night Elven society for as long as we know (till recently, with the introduction of Night Elf Mages; and even then, we saw how negative Maiev Shadowsong reacted to that). Shamanism works similar to druidism, however they worship the elemental spirits around them. This means that they do not forcibly take the powers of others and make it their own. They "Borrow" the powers of the elements to cast their spells. Both Shamanism and Druidism are seen as a way of borrowing powers from exterior sources, whereas Arcane and Fel are seen as either self developed or taken internally and claiming as their own. --- tl;dr So did Thrall cheat by using the power of the Elements? Lore speaking... i would say not; mainly because Shamanism isn't the same as Arcane or Fel Magic. It is a power that is granted by the elements around them. Though the meaning of words can easily be twisted, and he very well may have. Also, remember that the movie universe is its own thing. A lot of things are different in the movie, compared to the original lore. Hope this has shed some light, do you agree? Disagree? Why? Would like to hear what other Lorewalkers think! :D
If you read the books the rules are clear, only one weapon allowed and no armor. He has the hammer, he has body armor and he uses magic. The only thing allowed is a Shaman's blessing besides the one weapon. He's a dirty cheater.
Where does it specifically call out no shaman abilities? Calling down a lightning bolt is not a weapon so unless you can provide a specific passage I am afraid he didn't cheat.
Even if the use of magic or any kind of power was not strictly forbidden, the rule of "one weapon" is to take into account. It's here to make it fair ; the weapon is any one the fighter picks, but he has to stick with it. In this situation, powers can be considered a weapon since they can be used for combat. Which means, Garrosh came with only his axe ; Thrall could have faced him with only his hammer (former slave/gladiator, so not that uneven of a fight), but he also rocked the fireballs, tornadoes, molten hands and lightnings. If we are to follow the "one weapon" rule, he should have picked either his hammer or his shamanistic powers. He didn't. So I keep saying that, in a way, he cheated. And I'm not counting his gear as "body armor". Seriously, what could THAT protect ?
While you do have a point that Shamanism, and to boot, Druidism are not technically magic, they are still an external force that could strike a target with no protection or preparation for that. Garrosh was neither armored nor prepared during that fight, and Thrall was indeed equipped with body armor.
The scenery and sky around them in this scene makes me feel like this was at one time the conclusion of the Mists storyline... but they pushed it back to WoD. Just looking at the grass and sky, nothing about it says Nagrand to me.. It says Pandaria.
+Ryusola I get where you're coming from, it does make sense, but this was definitely planned. They announced back when Pandaria came out that they had the next 2 expansions laid out.
Elmartopilon No I'm not talking from story and model vantage, obviously changing stuff like that to fit the plot of Draenor is viable, but the grass, the sky...that is NOT the plains of Nagrand from where I'm sitting. That looks like the mists of pandaria.
i still remember the first time i watched this and saw Thrall channel fire, that he would go on to become an even more conflicted character than he already was. He dishonored himself big time by using magic in the tradition duel.
A lot of "Garrosh did the best he could" in the comments, like it's supposed to be a justification. Aww Garrosh, poor thing. Garrosh is a grown up and grown ups take full responsibility for their actions, even if he was abused by Thrall. But he wasn't. If anything, only things he could have learned from Thrall were honor, diplomacy, wisdom, good will, levelheadedness, tolerance, etc. But he had the exact opposite traits: he was warlike, hotheaded, unwise, racist and dishonorable (mana bomb). So saying Thrall made him who he is, is bullshit. What Garrosh is, he got from his parents and/or from a very young age, but his true nature was hidden behind his depression when Thrall first met him. Of course, Thrall isn't perfect. He's way too trusty with people and willing to give everyone a chance to get better. He thought Garrosh did a good job at Northrend so he could do a good job of leading the Horde. He had to give Garrosh something important to do. Maybe he thought that keeping Garrosh only as a warlord/general could lead him on the path of bloodlust, like his father? Maybe giving Garrosh more political responsibility could lead him off the path of warring and killing, which Grom so thoroughly enjoyed? And maybe orcs really weren't ready to follow a non-orcish leader at the time and the horde would have started falling apart? Who knows. I'm just trying to explain Thrall's line of thought. Now in hindsight, it was a bad decision. We can act smart now, as everyone is a general after the battle, as the proverb says. But at the time, you could only assume. In the end, it was Garrosh who betrayed Thrall, his teachings and his thrust. After all Thrall and his allies did for him, he still ended up acting like a rabid dog biting the hand that feeds him, narrow minded and only caring for his own self and his small pack of like minded murderers. Thrall believed he could be something more and was at fault there, but seeing Garrosh do what he did, he knew he had to put him down mercilessly, just like a rabid dog.
Looking back on everything including this Garrosh wasnt actually that bad until he literally had all his horde 'allies' conspiring against and turning on him. He didnt know his axe had been poisoned, Theramore was a military target at the moment of the bombing and in response Jaina went on a racially charged killing spree and she is seen as a good person somehow. He really was doing it for the horde and was the best chance they ever had at defeating the Alliance.
Garrosh logic Soldier bombs city without my permission-drops him off a ledge Garrosh bombs a city and declares war on everyone and shows himself a hypocrite-creates a whole new expansion
Tyran? You mean just an Orc that's following its instinct. Thrall cheated in an Orcish duel tradition, but it's not suprised, Thrall is a human raised Orc. If Blackhand, Orgrim, Grommash saw this they would spit on Thrall, or probably just take his head. I think even Saurfang would do this.
I don't know why these people are hating on Thrall. I thought this cinematic was awesome, despite being too short. First off: Thrall left Garrosh in charge TEMPORARILY because he was going to deal with the Cataclysm. Which he did, remember? The shit Garrosh pulled with the Iron Horde in Pandaria - that wasn't a result of anything Thrall ever did. That was Garrosh' personal ambition. Remember the time when Garrosh killed Baine Bloodhoof? You know, one of Thralls best friends along with Senjin and a co-founder of the Horde? You people don't know your fucking lore man - and Garrosh challenged Thrall's leadership once before, only to be interrupted by the scourge. Why Thrall left him in charge of the Horde, well... Let's just say he perhaps wore a little too rose shaded glasses with his love of Grom Hellscream. Finally - I'm pretty sure Mak'gora doesn't say anything about magic or what not. Besides, a guy like Garrosh has broken many agreements and acted very dishonorable on countless occations, and you still think Thrall is in the wrong for calling upon the elements to restore some balance? The ones who hate Thrall for doing this probably never played Warcraft 3. I played the shit out of that game, and once you get your lore right, you'll understand why Thrall got "carried away" on this one. And the part of making Garrosh what he was - fucking no way man. Garrosh gave into his own hatred and lost his way many times, while Thrall always wanted to save him and give him second chances. He wanted to groom him for command, because he saw so much of Grom in him. In the end though, Garrosh wasn't like his father. He didn't save anyone, he didn't commit any sacrifices. He nearly tore the Horde apart, and saw orcs as better than other races - something he definitely didn't get from Thrall either. So cut the shit talk. Garrosh had it coming for a looooong time.
Ahh shit I messed up the names of those two. I know it was Magatha who poisoned the axe, but to say Garrosh wasn't going to kill Cairne either way is a little, I don't know, naive? Thrall still blames Garrosh for the death of Cairne though. Erh, well, Thrall was kind of needed elsewhere was he not? It's not like he just grabbed a chill pill, right? And the shit Garrosh pulled on Pandaria had nothing to do with those domino effects, or the things he did when leading the iron horde. Thrall is at fault to some degree, but he's correct when he says: "No, you chose your own destiny." Because that's true. Garrosh could have been a wiser leader, but he wasn't. He could have united the horde and became a great example, but he never was that. Thrall may live in some degree of denial, but Garrosh was never the leader Thrall wanted to carve him into.
Don't listen to this guy, his post is full of mistakes, what the fuck...? Here is why: 1. First of all, Garrosh was a war-hero at end of WOTLK, and was a VERY popular individual in the Orcish community. Thrall acknowledge that, and thought it would be a good idea to make Garrosh the future Warchief, (even tho Thrall preferred Draenosh as Warchief more, because he was much calmer). 2. Garrosh NEVER challenged Thrall for his leadership. Garrosh challenged Thrall because Thrall insulted his father Grom Hellscream and also for Thrall's lack of action against the Scourge. In the end, Garrosh was right, the Scourge is a danger and must be dealt and the duel between Garrosh and Thrall would another time. 3. Cairne Bloodhoof challenges Garrosh for leadership, blaming Garrosh for things he actually didn't do, the Orcish grunts and Kor'krons almost wanted to kill Cairne at the gate of Orgrimmar. Garrosh told the Orcs to back off. So Garrosh basically saved Cairne's life, yet Cairne continues blaming Garrosh for things he didn't do, and gave Garrosh a punch in his face, for some reason Garrosh still gave Cairne the duel he demanded out of his honour. Imo Garrosh should have let his Orcs slaughter this ignorant idiot rage-cow Cairne. Fuck Cairne. 4. Garrosh ALWAYS wanted to destroy the Alliance and anyone who oppose the Horde. This was his plan back in WOTLK as well. If Thrall really cared about peace he should NEVER make Garrosh Warchief, because Thrall was damn aware of Garrosh uncontrollable aggression against the enemies. As natural warbringer as Garrosh, he saw his people are suffering of the harsh land of Durotar, Garrosh decided to invade Pandaria and take powerful artifact to empower his army and conquer the world for the Horde. And no, Garrosh isn't a racist towards the non-Orcs. According to Blizzard but also Garrosh-ingame, Garrosh only is a racist to anyone who doesn't want to fight the Alliance. Such a person is a coward in his eye and gets kicked out of the Horde.
1. I didn't mention that, true, but the fuck is wrong in my post concerning that? Did Thrall not intend to return to the horde once he wrapped things up with the Earthern Ring? 2. Garrosh' challenge to Thrall for his lack of action against the scourge WAS a challenge to his leadership, and when the hell did Thrall ever insult Grom Hellscream? Reference please. And Thrall was in long term correct to not launch a full scale attack on Northrend. 3. Jesus fuck you really are a Garrosh fanboy with that statement, my god. I like characters, but you seriously need to get a better understanding when it comes to the difference between character knowledge. Cairne did what he did out of spite for what Garrosh was doing and how he was leading, AND because of how he thought Garrosh had something to do with the slaughter of Ashenvale druids. Which Cairne didn't know at the time. 4. I don't play WoW anymore, but just for your information, your "for the horde" attitude really ruins your otherwise valid points. Stop fanboying and your contribution would actually be appreciated. And don't tell me there isn't some racism in Garrosh believing in superior races, come the fuck on bro.
This. So much this. Garrosh has been nothing but a whiny orc with daddy issues since we saw him being angsty in Nagrand (Outland). I hated him in Northrend because instead of focusing on defeating the Scourge and the Lich King he was obsessed with the Alliance for no good reason, other than his daddy fought and got his ass handed to him by the "weakling" Alliance. Then they made him Warchief, and we saw nothing but him being a power-hungry madman up and down Azeroth. He's been nothing but a pathetic character from day one and I'm glad he's finally, FINALLY dead. How much you wanna bet, though, that Metzen has such a hard-on for Garrosh as antagonist that the Legion will somehow recover his body and make him into a new Lich King 2.0 to start a second Scourge since Bolivar Fordragon ain't going to kowtow to their stupidity any more than Arthas did?
Garrosh's skull is really tough, it can survive pandaren"s fist into a recently tattooed jaw (ouch, that must hurt), orc's kick and even 3 blows from the most powerful hammer in WoW's history. And even after that he was not dizzy.
hammers are useless in cinematics. Like dude gets hit by a huge one and its like its made of plastic... He should have his face caved in... hammers hit harder than swords or axes...
"The quality of mercy is not strained... ...It blesseth him that gives and him that takes. .. ...His scepter shows the force of temporal power... ...But mercy is above this sceptered sway... ...Though justice be thy plea, consider this: That in the course of justice none of us should see salvation. " - Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice
Remorse? I doubt it. Garrosh was a psychopath and a war criminal. In the end, he tried blaming his sins on Thrall instead of recognizing it was his own fault and accepting responsibility for his actions.
The sad thing is you could imagine garrosh feeling as much like thrall abandoned him, as the wall feels he let down garrosh. Ultimately though it is an excuse. Likely garrosh's damaged mind rationalising everything he's done as warchief. Exceptionally well handled by blizzard, this is the single best quest in game since the Wrathgate.
Garrosh only did what he did cause of the stories of his father, Grommash. He thought he was doing the right thing, Thrall is really too blame since he appointed Garrosh, Warchief at a moment where he had no guidance, no help and it doesn't help that thrall just up and left when Garrosh had no real idea how to be a warchief other than the stories of Grommash.
Actually, in the wow book the shattering by Christie golden, it explains that thrall never intended garrosh to be self appointed warchief, he simply wanted him to be steward, sort of a denathor lotr thing. They give themselves too much power and then they go insane
"You don't have the strength of a true warrior!", Garrosh "My power is all around you", Thrall The lines have double meaning in the way both lead the Horde.
![Thrall Meets Jaina Cinematic: Sylvanas Executes Baine & Derek Proudmoore [WoW: BFADragonflight Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/W2sODrN46ms/mqdefault.jpg)
![Thrall Meets Jaina Cinematic: Sylvanas Executes Baine & Derek Proudmoore [WoW: BFADragonflight Lore]](/img/tr.png)
![Grom Hellscream VS Mannoroth [REFORGED] - Warcraft 3 Reforged](/img/n.gif)
Garrosh died like a true warrior.
Helpless in CC.
And Thrall won like a true bitch: By stunlocking Garrosh before executing him.
WoW PVP is a joke
Only if enha shamans had same variety of cc like Thrall, they only have hex and slows like earthbind totem and frost shock.
Lol, you deserve a beer.
@@operationmisanthropia5831you ain't sayin' anything wrong
"All I ever did, I did to make you proud! Tell me how proud you are, Thrall! Tell me! *TELL ME!!"*
**almost dead** "I... I have been always proud of you... From the first moment I have been proud of you... and It was my pride that blinded me. I loved you too much to see what you were becoming."
Would our character be Po?
@@SirDogeTheDog Tai Lung and Sifu.
@@TommyShowman Hellscream: I don't want your apology. I want the horde
"I don't rely on strength alone...
I have VERY high intellect."
+Mike Zilla Nop, agility, Thrall is enhancement
*tips fedora*
honestly they are evenly matched with the use of melee weapons but without a weapon its a different story.
Thrall eyes turn red,my felweed is all around you! 🤣
he relies on cheating :D
Garrosh was never lying about "doing it for the Horde". He stayed true to himself, even in the afterlife.
If you mean the Old Horde, then yes. If you mean the New Horde formed by Thrall, then no, his actions would go against everything the Horde nowadays stands for.
@@Anonymous2306 Garrosh did nothing wrong, true warchief
@@tryndamere3117 so you don't think his actions were orc-supremacist and racist other against races, even the ones in the horde?
@@Anonymous2306 they are cowards, we wanna the TRUE HORDE!
Wrong, Samo. Garrosh was right about the dark lady whom you bent a knee to
The way his ( the actor's ) voice cracks when he says '' You left me'' ... Amazing litle detail...
+Joe Kensei It's not quite as good and subtle as Kael'thas at 50%.. "I have not come this far to be stopped! ***The future I have planned will not be jeopardized!*** Now you will taste true power!" .. He sounds so confident and composed up until then, when he just loses it.. So good
+KyleBJobey That's not subtle lol
***** Contextually it is, but hey, I guess you never did it with TS and in-game sounds roaring.. :) Nevertheless, epic as shit! :)
KyleBJobey Ok, I listened to all his dialogue and you're right. He totally snaps... wow has lost its touch, it's all flashy and casual and leveling is a joke. The story isn't told in an indirect sense (which i love) it's so "in your face" like the audience is retarded. Tbh, you can make it LOOK flashy and cool (grom, thrall vs mannoroth) and still have it be meaningful.
+Joe Kensei what time stamp exactly?
Why are they fighting in the Windows XP background?
Definitely the best
When I get home I'm taking the wallpaper and photoshopping the two fighting in it
Lol
added it to my background!
Regele Leu
Do it 🤣
"Guldan! You have no honor"
- Durotan, Son of Garad
So Thrall also has no honor since he cheated in Mak'gora.
+The Container Nope. You can't use magic in a mok'gora, nor armor. You are also ment to have witnesses so people would know Thrall cheated.
+tickipooh but also there is a punishment for thrall. Losing the aid /power of the elementals after killing garrosh.
Garrosh wasn't surprised because he knew he'd die against Thrall, just like the first time he stubbornly agreed to an interrupted Mak'gora earlier. But I do believe Thrall did cheat. Garrosh honoured his side of the duel, and while Thrall is a very good warrior, he's still mainly a shaman. Thrall took the opportunity to crush and kill Garrosh, honour be damned.
Hope Alternate Grommash challenenges him to Mak'gora himself and claim the lead of Orgrimmar.
For more badass expansions
1:43 the way garrosh's voice cracks when he says that thrall left him made me feel a little bad for him
garrosh did nothing wrong
I just realized that Garrosh gave Thrall the chance to get up and finish their duel, and then Thrall did the equivalent of kicking someone in the nuts when they help you up and just straight up killed Garrosh.
To be fair, it was logical. Not honorable, but logical. Thrall absolutely ignored every rule of Mak'gora im this one.
@@stankobarabata2406 ench shamans are basically warriors though. And he didn’t use it till necessary which makes it feel wrong. Also the elements abandoning him after gives some justification to the dishonorable take
Well be fair he would of been dead if they didnt stop him from killing him that Thrall way of saying it should done this back in Org
I know this is 7 years old but Garrosh definitely saw Thrall as a father/brother figure but always had doubts for his vision for the horde. I think he wouldn't have had pleasure of slaying Thrall but just another sacrifice to be made for the betterment of the horde.
@@stankobarabata2406 The elements do care about mortal issues, they were kinda pissed when the Orcs started a war against the Draeneis. They also told Nobundo that they would help him as long as his cause was fair.
Back to the fight. Technically, Thrall didn't cheat since Garrosh didn't forbid him from using the elementals. But that was an unfair fight nonetheless. Mag'gorar is all about honor, you are expected to fight fair and square. Thrall as a Shaman is overwhelmingly stronger than Garrosh, and Garrosh knows it very well. In Pandaria, Garrosh used his Shamans to counter Thrall's shamanic power and forced Thrall to fight him as a warrior since he knew he would get clapped otherwise.
Here, Thrall challenges Garrosh to a fight and Garrosh accepts it thinking Thrall would be honorable enough to fight him as a warrior. And indeed, Thrall fights like a warrior, at least at the beginning, but when he starts losing to Garrosh he abandons his warrior facade and starts calling for his homies to help him beat Garrosh. Was it illegal? Nope. Was it a dick move? Definitely.
I didn't play Shadowlands and I don't know if the elements abandoned Thrall because of this fight. But even if they did, Thrall would still be capable of using them outside Azeroth since each world has its own elements. And reconciliation with the ones in Azeroth is still a possibility. Ner'zhul tried but failed because he was weak.
Thrall has the power of EYEBROWS. He is the only Orc to possess these powers to have facial hair above the eyes. And this gives him his godlike abilities.
funny thing is, in warcraft 3 he had none
Gul’dan?
@@afri-cola1594 Gul'dan does not have eyebrows except in Heroes of the Storm and inconsistently in other promotional materials.
Most female orcs have eyebrows
@@LordZealot64 so being raised by humans make you a half wahmen
Thrall meets Grommash in the Shadowlands
Grommash: so my son showed
Thrall: oh?
Grommash: and we talked
Thrall: ... oh
oh shit
but if Thrall tells him what he became I think Grommash would side with Thrall
Jes Web he became that because of Thrall.
@@quchi7232 noh he became that becouse he resorted to being a powerhungry bitch
*Punches Thrall* You failed him
2:43
"...and so began Garrosh's fate as the Battery of the Shadowlands"
"You never had the strength of a TRUE warrior!"
Well, no shit, Thrall's a Shaman class.
Lore? He was raised as a fucking Gladiator, fough with the burning legion etc, and young orc defeted him. But thrall of course cheated :) Like Gul'dan in warcraft movie, irony.
Thrall was a Farseer ever since the beginning. The rules of the duel only benefited Garrosh and Garrosh alone. Thrall would never have won that fight, and Garrosh NEEDED to die.
Kayriel Well Thrall challenged him knowing very well what the rules are and how sacred the duel is. Thrall cheated and has no honor! He should have died that day.
thrall learned shamanism before he even form the Horde or find any of his remaining race... guess mak gora would never work for any class and is exclusive to warrior if you want it to be fair XD
he never really meant "class" on that line... dickhead
Man this cutscene has such a beautiful symbol on Garrosh's death. He dies by the hands of the elements, the same place where he had met Thrall. The same place where he began his journey with us...
yeah but bringing the elements into it is cheating. fuck thrall
Thrall cheated, the rules of magkora do not allow magic or armor
@@UA-cam_Enjoyerlol Yeah! How ironic, as his father challenged Gul'Dan to show the others he's a cheater with his fel magic...however, what honor is in challenging to a duel a physically weaker foe? Thrall on the other hand was a fool to challenge a stronger combatant, and also cheated when he could not prevail...and Garrosh was right. Thrall wanted him to lead the Horde by the old ways, because he had no f-ing idea what it meant to be an orc, or what was the old, true Horde really all about.
You can hear in Garrosh's voice that he is truly hurt because Thrall left him when he needed him the most. He was left without his mentor and succumbed to power, something most of us would probably do as well. A shame he got killed like this.
thrall was challenged to mok'gora. he was no mentor to Garrosh. give it a rest.
Ive seen this cinematic many times, but only just now did I notice Garrosh's voice break when he says "You LEFT ME!" I think both of them are right. Thrall did start Garrosh on the path that lead him to ruin, Thrall appointed him Warchief, young and inexperienced as the leader of an entire people. Garrosh's choices were his own, but he made them as you said without guidance, Thrall left to heal the broken world but he never thought of how Garrosh would handle power
Which makes the wise sage all the more idiotic. Which would be sad, but it's Blizzard and everything they do seems to be idiotic.
@@shep9231 and thrall used magic
@@timemmel7560 Thrall broke the rules of Mak'gora and broke orcish traditions. Because he couldnt win a 1v1 against Garrosh in a fair battle.
To be fair, thrall really left garrosh in a shitty situation.
yeh thats his point when he said "you left me, to pick up ur pieces", Thrall rly did him shitty
Thrall was the one that failed the Horde by making Garrosh warchief and he will never answer for that, which seems very unfair to me.
@@Anthony-eo3ro that's why thrall decided to live in outland and just remain there because he acknowledge how a failure and disgrace he was to everyone
True, but at the time, he had a lot to tackle himself with the planet breaking apart xD. That said, Thrall should have kicked his butt out after the Cairne incident which was early on. Saurfang (if it HAD to be an orc Warchief), Cairne, or Vol'jin all would have been the best choices for leader though. He filled Garrosh's head with too much crap about how great Grom was when really he was one of the worst until the end.
Garrosh was charged with committing, or overseeing the commiting of these crimes: Genocide, murder, forced exodus of a population, enforced disappearance of individuals, enslavement, abduction of children, torture, killing of prisoners of war, rape and forced pregnancy, and wonton destruction of cities, towns, and villages not justified by military or civilian necessity.
Don't think he can blame being an evil dictator on Thrall. That's all on him.
lol he forgot to loot, what a noob!
Driant i dunno, he could go for oldschool 2H windfury! :)
+Raptor Jesus Oh please. Why loot a lvl 70 Epic at 100?? NOOB
Nemolicious for the epic skinz!
+Driant That didn't stop Guldan looting it.
+Raptor Jesus
Not really, it was personal loot. Another WoD feature.
Varian, back in SoO - "His fate is not for you alone to decide."
.... well, looks like it was afterall!! lol
***** I do agree that it should have been left to both factions ultimately to kill him.... That's how it's been for all other faction "leaders" that I can remember that weren't just off'ed by another leader.... Onyxia used to be a high-rank in the human leadership, and both factions fought her. Both factions also fought Kael'Thas and Varimathras when they were enemies, Kael as a BC boss and Varimathras briefly in the Wrathgate quest-line before they removed it. It would've made sense for both factions to deal the death blow, not exclusively Thrall. But I loved this ending also, so I'm fine with both endings.
you have the brain of an orc if you didn't realize A: Thrall stated his fate was HIS own to decide so Varian was right. B: Thrall stated he's not alone he has the elements... Living Beings that burned, tossed, held, and executed him. Thrall didn't do this alone, nor did he choose his fate.
Hearing the beginning music, waiting to hear “Ours... is a cycle of hatred”.
We have forgotten what makes us strong
Fallout 4 Theme
I just love the voice actor of Garrosh. The slight desperation is his voice when he talked about becoming warchief made the scene perfect. He wasn't much of a warhero, not shaman, not any kind of chosen one and had no kind of training in politics, just an orc who was too sick to fight. He hadn't even lived in Azeroth for that long so all its cultures were more or less foreign to him. And yet he was left with most important title of his alliance, an alliance which in his eyes was filled with weak and untrustworthy races. And Thrall knew this and he mostly wanted Garrosh to become sort of an poster boy for Horde because he did well in Northrend and was son of the most legendary orc in recent history. You can feel all that frustration, uncertainty and hatred through his voice.
And the somber music that plays before and after the scene represents perfectly how twisted the whole scene actually was. It was Thrall who couldn't admit his mistakes and had to resort to cheating to erase his failed past. And to the last moment Garrosh was trying to do what he thought was right, without any doubt in his mind. And as results, element, the power Thrall was so proud of, left him. All in all, one of the deepest moments in otherwise shallow expansion.
I always viewed this scene as not merely being Garrosh vs. Thrall, but about two very different takes on what it means to be Horde. Garrosh comes from a world where war and conquest are the lifeblood, and those who don't fight are subjugated. Garrosh represents the Orcs at their most primal state, the way they had to be on Draenor. In a sense, Garrosh is the "purer" orc, a point not lost on his Mag'har origins. He is however an extremist and an Orc supremacist, a logical extension of his ceaseless pride and unwavering will. He will not admit defeat, even when it is inevitable.
Thrall meanwhile stands for what the Orcs could be, a proud and noble warrior race that makes allies, not enemies. Thrall envisions a destiny for the Orcs beyond the conflict between the Horde and the Alliance. He seeks to move the Orcs beyond the brutality they relied on to survive in the past, and claim a greater place among the races of the Warcraft universe. However, he tends to trust too easily, and while he's made many allies and friends, some of his decisions and shortcomings have led to disastrous consequences; a fact that's not lost on him.
Thrall killed Garrosh because in Thrall's eyes, the old ways of the Orcs cannot continue into the future. Garrosh's vision for the Horde, and indeed his entire outlook on the Orcish people, is simply incompatible with the place he feels they must aspire to. Thrall didn't merely fight to slay Garrosh, but rather he sought to defeat the darker aspects of Orcish culture, the things Garrosh stood for. For Horde players, Warlords of Draenor is a battle to save the Orcs from themselves.
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
ChiotVulgaire Forgive me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Orcs peaceful before Draenor became Outland?
+jaharned1 Culturally no not particularly.
+jaharned1 Depends on which version of the lore you read. Pre-WCIII, they really were a bunch of bloodthirsty brutes fighting amongst themselves when they had nothing left to kill until the portal opened. They retconned that into the whole demon-blood-made-us-crazy thing in WCIII and after. In that version of the lore, the orcs were a primarily shamanistic society before Gul'dan forced the shamans to abandon the elements in favor of demonic magic.
+ChiotVulgaire lol you got it wrong and most people here too, orcs were peaceful on draenor then demons came and fucked them up, but beforehand they minded their own business in their clans
Garrosh to Sylvanas - Eventually we all must stand before our maker and face judgement. Your day may come sooner than others...
The irony of that statement...
Ghoffman91 well.... this is awkward
People then: "Ha ha Garrosh is such an idiot for not trusting Sylvanas"
People now: "..."
Hello past. I'm from patch 8.2 and I just want to say that the irony of this statement is even more ironic now.
Yo so how do you feel now?
I'm not so much questioning Thrall's honor as I am Blizzard's writing or ability to remember their own mythos. If Thrall really "cheated" on purpose as a last resort, he shoud've clearly acknowledged it. Here there is no mention of him breaking the rules or showing any sign of humiliation. What I'm suggesting is that Blizzard fucked up.
Blizzard did not fuck up Thrall is a hypocrite he was hypocrite in cata hypocrite in mop and hypocrite in wod
This is the only sensible and true comment in this entire section.
Blizzard does remember their mythos, but they decided to continue the story line in legion. Mild spoilers ahead: During the Broken Shore the elements stopped responding to Thrall. In the Horde Cinematic, you can see that the Doom hammer is not empowered. This is continued in the artifact quest line where Thrall gives you the doom hammer after a quest line since it is no longer responding after what he made them do on Draenor. Pretty much the elements have stopped letting Thrall control them after forcing them to kill Garrosh. This has happened before too. The elements stopped responding to the orcs when they took the powers of the fel and committed genocide on the Dranei
+Dave Gurl Thanks for the input. I am aware of these developments in Legion, here's what I have to say: There are two potential scenarios in decision making by Blizzard.
The first is what I originally suggested, they simply forgot, and are now trying to smooth it over with Thrall losing his powers. Did Thrall not know the rules of duel? If he did, why did he willingly break them without expressing any sign of humiliation?
The other possibility is that they did this on purpose in order to lead up to Thrall losing his powers, therefore giving Doomhammer to players. The problem with this is, again, why did Thrall not mention that he was in the wrong for using magic? There was no clear indication in the moments immediately after the fight that Thrall did something extremely dishonorable. This decision by Blizzard banked on the ignorance of the majority of players who wouldve seen nothing wrong with the outcome of the duel, and successfully allow Blizzard to later take away Doomhammer from Thrall in the most contrived of story telling methods.
Because Blizzard loves to see their fans to make their own conclusion.
Then when being tortured in Shadow Lands he breaks free out of pure spite and rage and STILL is for the horde. Garrosh was the best thing that happened to WoW's story over the years.
I always thought of Garrosh as a tragic hero, rather than a true bad guy. He was a hothead, but also an honorable Warchief for a while during Cataclysm. (Remember Stonetalon Mountain?) He wasn't fit to be a Warchief, and from the start, several Horde members have been trying to use Garrosh for their own means.
"Let everything you do be done for the horde" - Thrall said this when he appointed Garrosh as Warchief, and so Garrosh obeyed...
+liam berry So wait... committing genocide against a peaceful nation, banishing those that opposed his ideals, and awakening and Old God so he could be a tyrant was for the Horde???
+liam berry So wait... committing genocide against a peaceful nation, banishing those that opposed his ideals, and awakening and Old God so he could be a tyrant was for the Horde???
+Katharine Anne Garrosh did grow up consumed by what he believed was weak emotions (doubt, despair and fear). An old god that controls emotions? Can turn cowards into warriors? Sounds fine to me....... Garrosh saw the sha as a idea to turn the horde into an unstoppable killing machine, warriors that can not be overcome with fear, despair and doubt, like he did
And that is why Garrosh failed the Horde.
This one goes down as one of the most captivating cinematic's i've witnessed yet. I'll never forget it when it happened in game. I was not expecting it (didn't really read the quest dialogues)
I also wanted Garrosh to win
Blizzard: "You've made me what i am!"
Chirs Metzen: "No, you've chose your own destiny..."
lol
Thrall: You must answer for your crimes Garrosh!
Garrosh: All I made I made for the horde
Thrall: You failed the horde!
Garrosh: You made me Headchef
You left me! too pick up your pizza!
you failed meeee!
You never had the recipe of a true pizza chef
Thrall: I do not rely on toppings alone Garrosh. my pizza is all around you!
Garrosh: Thralll!!!! You made my pizza what it is
Thrall: No. you chose your own recipe!
What am i doing with my life
this is great
Best comment of the year XD
Oh my God reading it and going with the cinematic is so funny to do well dine friend
Creating fantastic fanfiction, that is what you are doing.
LOL, this comment is really match with the cinematic...! XD Maybe in the next WoW expansion, you could be a scriptwriter dude...
Who else here was sad watching this and then going to see him after the cinematic. I stood there for half an hour depressed, he was a friend to us all in Nagrand, when we first met him in Garadar. Then our commander in Borean Tundra, our faithless and strong leader of Northrend. Soon our strong Warchief of the Horde, our leader, gone mad with power. Finally our enemy, a disgrace upon this world of Azeroth. But he will always be a friend to us all, that young Orc warrior we met while leveling in Outland and thinking that we would never see him again. We were so wrong.
I understand the way you feel it killed me when our old warcheif died for shame.
We'll see him again in the Shadowlands.
I made the best Garrosh mog in all of wow come seek me out in server dalaran my name is Gàrry.
you are deluded
According to the new Warcraft movie..... Thrall totally cheated and wold be hated if other orcs saw... lol
Everyone knew Thrall cheated when this cinematic first came out
The Mak'gora isn't just in the movie lol, everyone who knows something about orcish lore knew Thrall cheated the moment this cinematic was out...
Yes, but people will still flame and hate you for pointing out that Thrall cheating was downright dishonorable by orcish culture and rules. The Mak'gora is sacred, the rules are clear and breaking them is essentially spitting on orc culture as a whole.
Garrosh was the dirtiest cheater there was. I'm pretty sure dropping the mana bomb on theramore violated all sorts of honorable combat.
If the rules are so clear and sacred, why did both of them forego the rule of bringing in at least one witness to the fight per side?
The first time I ever saw this scene was back when it was leaked prior to MoP's launch.
I guessed then that this scene would lead to Gul'Dan raising Garrosh's corpse as the first Death Knight, instead of Teron'Gor.
Sad to see it never happened, would of been a great last shock to deliver at Hellfire Citadel, with Garrosh yet again standing in the way.
as much as i hate garrosh he has a pretty strong point about thrall failing him and the horde.
+John Santiago no man as I said garrosh true failed the horde he turned his back for power thrall never do that the horde made him strong as he is today garrosh failed the horde and thrall especially his father who is a hero of the orc
Call me Arthas for bringing this comment back from the grave, but I'm in the same boat.
When I first saw this cinematic play out, I cheered with joy watching MY Warchief slay the false one with the power of the Elements.. And I remained happy about it for a long while.. But eventually, I was standing by Garrosh a second time, on my orc shaman, and started to think about what he said.
I went back, watched other videos and read other people's comments... And I realized that Garrosh was right. He was a warrior through and through. His heart and soul were forged for battle, not for politics. He was a tactician on the battlefield, but not in a throne room... And Thrall still thrusted the mantle of Warchief upon him, despite Garrosh believing he was not ready.. Thrall even had another in mind as his successor above Garrosh, but due to his untimely death in Northrend, Dranosh would never become Warchief, and instead, Garrosh would. Despite Thrall knowing full well that both Vol'Jin and Cairne had the ability to lead, he still wanted Garrosh as Warchief... And then Thrall simply left the Horde to its own devices..
After the Cataclysm, Garrosh WAS actually a good Warchief. Harsh, ruthless, and intimidating, but a good Warchief.. He had not yet forsaken honor. I went back recently and replayed the Cata Stonetalon Mountains questline, and at the end, after all that had happened, Garrosh was furious at what Krom'gar had done. He was furious over the deaths of innocents, and even quoted Varok Saurfang.. And his dialogue in Silverpine to Sylvanas.. I asked myself, what the hell happened... This Garrosh had so much potential. And now here he lies, mangled and dead in the fields of his homeland..
If Garrosh remained the Warchief, the horde would rule the world. There would be no Battle for Azeroth, but theres a good chance the horde alone wouldn't stop the Legion.
agree with lozfreak 222 Blizzard basically turned garrosh from a honorable warrior into a monster for plot reasons, and that sucks (since hes my husbando)
And now Thrall is letting Sylvanas burn the world tree in the name of the Horde. Yeah. He's a lazy neet who prefers to smoke weed and enjoy his retirement while the world burn
Garrosh: "You failed me!!"
Thrall: "I wear my pauldrons on my wrists. You argument is invalid."
And now, Thrall's cheating comes back to bite him in the ass in Legion.
So using your abilities to win a fight is cheating? By that logic, everyone in Warcraft cheats.
Ultimaton100
You'll see in Warcraft movie how fair that is.
Phisycal stregnth vs magic makes it kinnda one-sided.
Turmoil That may seem so, but physical prowess has been demonstrated to triumph over magic more than once in Warcraft. The rules of a Mak'gora, like the duel seen here, don't forbid use of magic. So by default it's not cheating.
Ultimaton100
As I said, when the movie comes you'll see it for yourself, unless you already know spoilers.
+Ultimaton100 If you actually read the rules, each combatant is allowed one weapon, and no body armor.Thrall, for one, wore armor, and two, using magic is counted as an additional weapon....Not only did thrall use doomhammer, he also cheated by using his Green Jesus magic.
01:21 is a straigh up reference to Kung Fu Panda where Shifu is fighting Tai Lung.
Both are in the same position, the movements are very similar and what they say is almost identical + the rhythm is the same-ish.
Isnt it amazing how animators and artist in general take stuff from one another and transform it completely?
I find it fascinating.
i def got those kung fu panda vibes too
"All I did, I did to make you proud! Tell me how proud you are Thrall! Tell me! TELL MEEEEEE!"
If I may people who are arguing about Garrosh and Thrall, Firstly you must understand where Garrosh comes from emotionally. Think about it, why does he have all that rage? simple. Thrall dumped all that stress and responsibility on him all at once to lead 5 different races and to safeguard them as their leader and protector, on top of that he wasn't ready, he was still far too young if you think about it. And he's one thing that may have set Garrosh over the edge after that load of crock, Thrall is the closest thing he had to a mentor and father figure, his only family if you think about it, he may be an orc but they're intelligent creatures just like humans with emotions as you can plainly see by his rage. Thrall leaving him was like Thrall abandoning him. That covers my Emotional Explanation, now for Thrall's side of the story, After Garrosh started to commit these war crimes and acts of cruelty, Thrall quickly begun to see that Garrosh had to be put down and that it was his fault completely that Cairn died, so naturally Thrall felt he had to clean up the mess he made out of guilt and responsibility. I have no doubts in my mind that Thrall regrets Killing Garrosh even after all the Crimes he commited much like Jaina still loved Arthas even after he died, as seen if you get her locket I believe it was? and deliver it to her. the quest details at the end will explain more, for I can't remember much of it. my point is that every Evil character has emotional back story that leads them to become who they are, Arthas became insane because of what was happening to people and he lost his will at the end of the campaign in Warcraft 3 reign of chaos. Illidan tried to only help his people in his own way and was punished for his deeds that ACTUALLY saved his people in the long run, but instead of being praised he was banished in a jail cell for 10,000 years straight, by his own brother no less, who I may add married and stole away his crush Tyrande Whisperwind. there's a reason why they all turned insane. Garrosh being no exception. I Loved Thrall since Warcraft 3, but honestly I want Grommosh to Decapitate his Head or just Kill Thrall in the most Agonizing way possible, Thrall needs to take into account that HE did infact cause Garrosh to become what he was, to take responsibility where it is due. He is just as Guilty as Garrosh, I hope you all see why and understand my point for that fact. Take the time to meditate and see why I see it like that and maybe just maybe you all will have a better understanding of why garrosh turned Evil. True that Arthas after the Human campaign had no control over himself really until after he merged with Ner'zul suppressing the His will for as long as he could and fighting inside internally against the darkness that had taken his soul.take that into account that he had no power over his own body. if anything he was nothing more than a favored vessel for Ner'Zul. It would seem that Arthas, Garrosh and Illidan all shared the same reasoning that lead to their downfall: They did what they did for their People, hoping to save them and strengthen them so that they may see another day, instead losing their minds because they're constantly betrayed by the one's they love and care for, thus sealing their Fate and "Destiny" as Thrall so gently put it. A bitch slap to the face would suit half of the current leaders in the warcraft universe today to say the least.
Such a long and nice post and no rate or replies? Pity :/
Now to the topic. I agree that Garrosh had his reasons to lose it. And to be fair, I believe Blizzard did try to show in Cataclysm that Garrosh had honor even behind his rage, for example his reaction when he found out that Horde general in stonetalon mountains bombs druid's thus killing innocent man, women and children. Then his reaction to Sylvana's way of bringing dead ALLIANCE (or I guess any) corpses back to life, and replied that doing something like that was against nature itself.
However, even after all that, Troll starting zone in Cata showed that not all Horde leaders wanted to follow Garrosh knowing his ways; Rage, wanting alliance blood, etc.. so Garrosh banished Vol'jin and his kind from Orgrimmar. He also had a serious argument with Cairne Bloodhoof and ended up killing him in a duel (doesn't really matter much about the poison)
Also, before all that, in wrath of the lich king, it was shown many times how Garrosh hated Alliance and couldn't control his rage. Yes, Thrall was there to control Garrosh, but even Thrall couldn't always do it, that and Thrall couldn't always hold Garrosh's hand. Thrall found Garrosh broken and took him in. Told him about how great his father was and gave Garrosh a pride to carry. However, I feel that Garrosh was too proud of his father and thus saw himself higher anyone none orc.
Yes, Thrall felt responsible for what Garrosh become, but I doubt there was much Thrall could do. He was with Garrosh all the time and perhaps saw more than he should have in Garrosh. That is why he made a mistake when Cataclysm hit and thus Thrall HAD to leave. His mistake was making Garrosh the warchief, although he did had some reasons to do so. Still, leaving Garrosh like that was a mistake that turned then whole Horde upside down. Thrall also felt guilty for Cairn's death. So yes, Thrall does have something to do with how Garrosh turned out to be, but that is why he felt guilty. However, Garrosh wouldn't try to control his anger and would do anything to spill blood. That was HIS path, and not Thrall's mistake.
Now my point of view? I'm happy Thrall actually showed his power. I don't think we ever saw Thrall fighting since warcraft III. And honestly, I was amazed. After Cataclysm, I so Thrall as just a weak character who runs around saving the world and being kind. But here it showed all the guilt he felt and how he was fixing his mistakes. Garrosh on the other hand simply wouldn't learn. Even when he was standing before the Pandarian trial. He simply couldn't care less and would just try to piss as much people before death as possible. So Garrosh was kinda right when saying that Thrall made him what he was, but Thrall was also kinda right when replied -"You chose your own destiny"
Well, at least that's my personal opinion about all this :p
Well not everyone is gifted with insight into the psyche of others. I agree we all choose our own destiny, this is true even in life. I respect your opinion as you respect my own as well. I just thought I'd point out that it's both Thrall's and Garrosh's fault that these events happened in the story. And Thrall is one of the best Characters I've seen, I take it you've seen the Video on Gul'dan offering the blood again to Grommosh right? I think Thrall may have his revenge yet. Garrosh could of been something more than a Tyrant, however being warchief at a young age is like being married at a young age, it just won't work out, 75% of the time. He was not ready or disciplined enough to be a leader, allowing how he felt control and dictate his life, or as Thrall said he had chosen his own destiny because of this. I do Appreciate your Insight Friend because it's not very clear to some others why he turned out the way he did. From a Gutless Orc who was dishonored by his own bloodline to the Brutal Warrior who would become a tyrant who wanted Mass genocide. If you have any more thoughts on the matter please discuss them, I'd always love to pick another person's brain on the subject.
Well, like i said, I personally more on the fence about who's fault it was that Garrosh went insane, but I do agree with you as well.
I think in the end it all comes down to where one's blood origins are. What I mean is, Thrall is the son of Durotan and Durotan's clan was pretty much the wisest and concentrated more on survival. Other clans were more brutal and cared for (their) honor and war. Now, in our time, Thrall made many friends like Vol'jin and Cairne and united the horde. He was also a shaman and thus was wiser than a warrior, so people listened to him. Garrosh on the other hand is a son of a warlord. He is the kind of a guy you'd want on your side on the battlefield.
This is where in my opinion it all went south. When Thrall had to leave, he could make Vol'jin or Cairne the warchief. But instead picked Garrosh believing that horde would favor a warlord as a new leader. I think there's even a saying -"Wise men lead and strong men follow"
However, I do agree that Garrosh could have become an interesting character and although felt "finally" when he died, I can't but wonder - had many people enjoyed Garrosh as a warchief in Cata, would blizzard have a different story for him and all warcraft universe, or was it suppose to end like this in the end one way or the other?
Kirk Fogg It was bit of both in terms of whose fault it was in the case of Garrosh. Yes Thrall did make him Warchief (and by no means am I trying to support Thrall's statement, I just wish to shed some light on Thrall's side) but remember that it was Garrosh's choice to forsake honor and bomb Theramore. It was HIS choice to claim the Heart of Yshaarj to taint his people more than the fel blood. And it was HE who decided to give the Iron Horde guns and technology to fight their enemies rather than doing it the honorable way (e.g. melee battle, not bombs and tanks everywhere). In the end, had he not forsaken his honor, had he not bombed Theramore, he would still be our warchief and he would've made the Horde greater than ever before.
+Kirk Fogg I think this argument is flawed, Garrosh is actually OLDER than thrall.
Garrosh-"METZEN, YOU MADE ME WHAT I AM"
Thrall- "no the community chose your own destiny"
1:45 Garrosh sounded like he was gonna cry, Goddamnit Thrall you bully
Thrall cheated.
Garrosh also cheated against Cairne
no, see he did not know his blade was poisoned. that was the doing of Magatha Grimtotem.
nice try tho.
But Garrosh was unaware of the poison at his axe
Thrall used his powers, there is no rule saying he couldn't...
Not to mention that Garrosh's imprisonment and twisting of the Elements kinda made his fate poetic.
Grom, easily. Garrosh has never slain a demon general single handedly before.
Every time I see the ending, I think of Peter vs the Chicken from family guy, as Thrall is walking away. Who else wished they'd cut to Garrosh and see him with his eyes squinting in rage???
In fact Thrall did made him who he is. If you know any lore Thrall is a real bitch and Garrosh even begd him to not become warchief as he is a man of war and not diplomacy. And that it was not a good idea to give the mantle of warchief to him. Majority of you just jump into hate train and hate him for no reason at all. When Garrosh took over the horde there was all kind of mess within it's ranks. No food, no resource, night elfs shut off the trade with them, cairne death which was not Garroshs fault and he did not want to poison him as you may think he did. And it was Cairne who challenged Garrosh into fight.
Garrosh deserved better, but it seems Blizzard likes to kill all of the characters who had potentially great story....
So true!
Yea, thrall put him in charge. But he alone chose to do what he did. All the war crimes he stood for. For not to mention being a nazi orc racist towards any race that is not redskinned nor orcish.
Only thing Garrosh deserves is to rot in the very same hell Arthas is rotting in.
And now they made Yrel, the poop of a "loving all girl type" character. Lets see how long is that going to last, not to mention Blizzard rushing her trough expansion and she climbing up to top ranks too fast. I honestly couldn't give less of a fuck who she is and how she is going to evolve. There are plenty of other cool characters that deserve some kind of love. And one of them was Orgrim, so I'd say fuck you Blizzard for killing him of like pure rat. Way to go, it seems Metzen is completly out of ideas and just follows the Game of Throne- lets kill every cool character in our books that should sell.
If some one does it don't be a bitch and do the same with your own books Metzen it's getting old. And boring, and if you are so eager to kill of some characters then start with Tyrandre that bitch has it coming for years now. To kill off Maraad, Orgrim and Garrosh in same expansion. Well, well played well played indeed...
Michael Rivers I know, but sadly he is still in warcrafts version of hell. As he said "I can only see darkness" before he dies after the curse is lifted. So it's a tragic story indeed.
He was hated by 80% of the Horde players. Thats why Blizz killed him.
thrall has an insane parry chance
"You chose your own destiny."
In the beginning we see Garrosh in Draenor and after they take down Mannaroth Gul'dan says "This was not our destiny." Garrosh did indeed chose his own destiny.
I gotta say the cinematics in this expansion have been awesome!
Has anyone mentioned that there's kind of a parallel between what Garrosh screams at Thrall and what he probably wishes he could say to his father?
"You made me warchief! You left me to pick up your pieces! You failed me!!" and "You made me what I am!"
Garrosh lived his entire life in his father's shadow, having never even truly gotten to meet him, carrying the burden of not only Grom's failures but also his victories. Grom unwittingly doomed his people only to redeem them at the cost of his own life, and had to abandon Garrosh as a child to accomplish these things. Garrosh grew up not wanting to repeat his father's mistakes, but not wanting to fail his father's reputation either, and was forced to become the Warchief in Thrall's place at possibly the worst of times when the world was literally coming apart.What choice did he have when forced into a position that he didn't want, with everyone else who had supported Thrall not providing him with any advice other than insulting or threatening him? He was abandoned, betrayed, manipulated, and scolded no matter what he did, all the while pressured under the weight that his father unintentionally placed on his shoulders. Garrosh became what circumstances made out of him; he never had the opportunity or the choice to forge his own path.
I don't care what people say about Garrosh, everything he said to Thrall was absolutely true, and Thrall saying "you chose your own destiny" was bullshit.
Honestly this cinematic pissed me off so much that I stopped playing my shaman, and I've been playing that character since Wrath.
Hamsterloki Apart from that Thrall cheated heavily during the mok'gora, and it seems like he forced the elements thus sticking his fingers into dark shamanism. The elements only give what is needed and nothing more. Garrosh's death was extremely excessive and overkill, thus the elements abandoned Thrall cause he forced them.
Hamsterloki I
Bryson Chatman Yes, but he didn’t know any better. As he said himself: You mad me into what I am. It’s like putting a child in a position of making tough decisions. If the child chooses wrong it’s not really their fault since no one taught the child anything about those kinds of decisions. Garrosh didn’t want to be warchief but Thrall pushed him.
Spoon & Fork You know how much bullshit that is? He had plenty of advisors from multiple races. Saurfang probably tried the hardest.
Up until mop he was a good warchief during that xpac he lost it and forsake his honor thrall meant that he chose to fall under their pressure and break to become all the things they called him. Thrall tested him by making warchief and in thralls eyes he failed him. I personally don’t think thrall should’ve put that much faith in him when he was a young person who only went through one war. That part I agree but garrosh chose to go evil and forsake his honor he once had thrall said that bc he wasn’t there when the events of mop happened he was in nagrand or some shit. Garrosh is misunderstood but he fell to the people discouraging him he had more potential then that. I agree with you any normal person would break at that point but garrosh was not normal he should’ve ignored what they said and be the warchief he thought thrall should always be.
When the Warcraft movie premiered, I distinctly remember people sitting near me saying aloud, "He's a cheater just like Thrall" when Gul'dan used fel during a Mok'gorah.
Happy 6th anniversary, Mr. WoW In-Game Cinematic
Personally, I suspect that blizzard only made garrosh go crazy because of the lash back from the fan base over making him warchief. Soooo they threw him under the bus in MoP by ignoring all his previous character traits about being an honorable warrior, and made him a crazy tyrant. Don't you just love consistent writing?
david boell You know, some characters change. Some go crazy. It's called "story"
Solaxe S Yes. Characters can change. But that change has to come with the natural flow of a story. Garrosh's didn't. He literally went from "Honor. No matter how dire the battle, never forsake it." to "IMA KILL THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD!" between expansions for no reason. When you have fans who are debating whether or not the char is bipolar, you know you have a problem.
david boell you haven't read the books haven't you? The one story between Cata and MoP? That explains it
david boell I wouldn't say "no reason". The Sha's corruption had a big part of it. Think of it as another form of Arthas/Lich King. Their stories are very much alike, but with less side-story rabbits to chase.
david boell Even when he became a tyrant Garrosh never lost his sense of honour and pride. The "I'ma kill everyone" thing was due to the fact he was betrayed by everyone around him - representatives of the leaders of the other horde races,- forced into doing a job that he never wanted and knew he couldn't do and abandoned by all his friends.
An example is in the above video. It's a makgora. He didn't cheat. He didn't wear body armour. He didn't break every single rule like Thrall. Thrall didn't even give him a witness. It was a sham. But he still went with it and abided by the rules. His honour wasn't tarnished. Thralls was.
thrall has been limiting and hold himself back for far too long when it comes to garrosh and many other fights. It was about time he used his full ability.
In a reality like Warcraft, if you're a physical warrior who cant handle such things, you get the death that was coming to you.
Grom killed a pitlord, grom's father was crushed between the teeth of a collosal priomordial gronn and still found the strength to cleave its head open (it died before he did as it fell to the ground). Garrosh has no excuses.
"honor" has gotten them nowhere except into larger and larger messes. Some pragmatism was very welcome at this point.
Yes...THIS. Fuck honor, Garrosh was the "Adolf Hitler" of Warcraft - driven crazy by his youth and his fate, gone insane, turned monster. Such beings must be stopped, no matter WHAT or how great the price....
first off all, "reality" like warcraft? LOL. Secondly, Thrall never had to challenge garrosh to a mak'gora, if he just wanted to kill him, he could have just done that. This was an act of cowardice, and nothing else. Oh shit, garrosh is actually a real warrior, guess I will have to call on all my friends (the elements) to kill him instead. I used to like Thrall, but this was some next level BS, very dissapointing
Kim Andre Michelsen
you dont know what the fuck you talkin about.
yes garrosh was real warrior, and he used his warrior abilities.
and guess what ? thrall was a real shaman, and he used HIS abilities.
mak`gora is not only for warriors, you know ?
Ismar Sarajlic Mak'gora forbids outside help. Mak'gora forbids armor. Mak'gora forbids more than one weapon. Thrall cheated. Outside help from the elements, Doomplate armor, the use of earth and air as weapons.
anonemuss93 Thrall didn't receive outside help from the elements, he *called* upon the elements because he has the ability and power to do so. He's a *shaman*. He's capable to call the elements because he has been trained and worked hard to be capable to do so, much like a warrior works to refine his weapon skills. Moot point.
Both Garrosh and Thrall had metal-protecting things on them, Garrosh was "more naked" because he's ALWAYS "more naked", he fought the player and Durotan/Yrel "dressed" in the same way. Regardless, none of them was completely deprived of body armor, so none of them followed the rule.
Earth and Air are part of his powers as a Shaman. The rule simply says both must carry one weapon, obviously the physical one, and Thrall did so. It doesn't say anything about elements be weapon-like tools counting as additional "weapons" in the fight.
Watching this almost a decade on makes me realize how much potential WoD had. Garrosh was such a good character. I really wish Thrall would've gotten what he deserved.
Meh. Garrosh was used up as a villain and deserved to get his head caved in. When someone's plan involves using time travel to create an army then they're done, because that's the sort of idea a comic book supervillain would come up with.
...A happy family and life from the war? Yeah, I'd say Thrall got what he deserved, tbh.
Voice actor for Garrosh is amazing.
I felt like Thrall's quote near the end should have been something along the lines of "Yes, I put you on that throne, and I laid the burden of Warchief upon your shoulders. But your actions are your own, Garrosh," and then kill him. That would've fit better.
!!!!!Movie Spoilers!!!!!!. Thrall is no better than the monster Gul'dan. He is NO FROSTWOLF. I'll leave it at that.
Thrall was never raised in a true Frostwolf environment, so that is technically correct
Agreed.
I think that Thrall is not a Frostwolf Orc and was never one.
+18Krieger He is the son of Durotan Frostwolf. He is pretty much a Frostwolf, however he wasn't raised in the clan.
B Well, no he is a frost wolf, but he used magic where he wasn't suppose to
The more I watch the cinematic the more I'm convinced that Thrall lost his powers and was rejected by the hammer for an entirely different reason.
On AU Draenor, we already know that Thrall is having issues using this shaman powers.Yet in the cinematic he is using them without issue. Also he started using them without first calling on the elements of earth, wind, and water (even in Orgrimmar he didn't call on fire when he tried to face Garrosh), yet his first elements attack was fire based.
I think that in his determination to stop Garrosh he pulled a "dark shaman" on the elements without realizing it. That makes more sense to me why the elements and hammer would reject him. The elemental lords/furies have no reason to care at all about fleshing/mortal "rules" and "honor" . They existed LONG before mortals even existed or their sense of honor.
More over, in the Shaman quest for the Doomhammer Thrall says at the end he has to leave and meditate(?) on what he's going to do next. This suggests that if he did act as a dark shaman, he still isn't aware of it.
Besides, every hero need to go through a "dark night of the soul" and have a redemption story. Hopefully Thrall's will be epic and restore is bad ass reputation, followed by his" "retiring" (perhaps due to an injure like loosing an arm) and become what he was always meant to be, chieftain and Shaman to the Frost wolves. This way he can still be in-game but out of the way of the new generation of heroes.
after cheating in a 1v1 i just hope that thrall will die in a really stupid way. thrall knew in that moment he would die
@@yutyrannus5209 Actually after thinking about this more, I don't think Thrall cheated or unconsiously did a dark Shaman act. Looking back on Thrall's history you may recall what happened just before he and Aggar got married. Thrall mind, body and spirit got split into the 4 elements and Aggar had to do a whole quest to get the 4 aspects to remerge. However, what if his spirit didn't fully remerge? While separated he was effectively a spirit of fire, earth, water, and wind. He might very well still have the same level of influence over those elements as a regular spirit of those elements.
This may be why he seemingly lost his connection to the spirits, because he kept asking them to do things that he was now capable of doing for himself (but didn't know this) and they got tired of his asking them to do it. This ties into his unexpected ability to hold back the tidal wave Janna Proudmore was going to use to kill everyone in Orgrimar even though she was using the Focusing Iris which should have made it impossible for Thrall to stop. There, as with his battle with Garrosh, he unconsciously used his latent power.
A shaman is forbidden from using their shaman powers in a mok'gara since it normally would require the aid of an outside 3rd party (the spirits) and so make it dishonerable. However, if Thrall was using his own spirit to manipluate the elements, then he is not cheating. He just used his own personal strength (spiritual) the same Garrosh was using his muscles.
When Thrall managed to release himself with lightning from the Jailer's chains, there were no spirits around to aid in this. He did it on his own and is still too thick headed to realize what is really going on since he probably believes it's not possible.
Garrosh died for our sins.
I think I speak for everyone when I say, "Finally!"
Finally...... THE ROCK has come BACK to NEW YORK CITY!!!!!!!
oh I'm sorry I thought I was in America? :P
***** Because some people need to wake up and realize that his character had gotten stale. Seriously...the guy has been causing major issues for three expansions straight. It was about time he was taken out of the spotlight.
***** No, the Horde and Alliance are not actually constant enemies. They have been, consistently, drawn together to fight against foes more powerful than either one alone -- after the Scourge washed across Lordaeron to pave the way for the Burning Legion, it was only by combing their forces that Thrall, Jaina and the Night Elves were able to defeat Archimonde and stop him from draining the power of the World Tree. The same thing has happened when the Horde, Alliance, and many other factions have banded together to stop forces like Kil'Jaeden, the Lich King, Deathwing and now even Garrosh.
Yes, the Horde and Alliance have been at war upon many occasions, but they have also fought and died together numerous times as well, and in doing so, they have slowly come to realize that their wars have only brought greater destruction as was evident in Pandaria, eventually leading them to understand that they need not be enemies and they can actually achieve peace by working with one another.
That being said, everyone in the Alliance is still a noob, and that really just applies to players, not necessarily characters -- I can tolerate characters, but those damned gnomes. They need to be eaten. Every last one of them.
Hermaeus Mora Everyone in the Alliance is still a noob? My server begs to differ. The Horde there do nothing but go around killing low levels. My guild is organized specifically to kill them and they put up no sort of fight at all. ***** Him being a douche is fine...but it's been three straight expansions, come on now.
Really? Love him or hate him u surely can't be happy he is gone? He must be the most loved/hated character in the game... If u love him, u miss him, if u hate him, u might miss hating him and having someone u want to kill?
This was the best moment of the expansion...everything went down hill from this point.
AioriadLeo Best cinematic in a long time.
I like how thrall shaved his head purely to match metzen's bald head
Poor Garrosh. This is the saddest scene that has ever been in any of the expansion packs.
My horde died with Garrosh, a great warchief who i shall never forget.
The True Horde!
The horde that kills it's allies, sparks wars that have been trying to be quelled for years, and is run by a baby-man?
A horde that faced its enemies head on and didn't shirk away from those who have persecuted us for years. The horde that actually valued the strength that the horde represented and the perseverance to live on when faced with enemies like the Alliance. Lead by a warchief who had the mantle thrust upon him in the horde's most trying days, and still managed to raise a war effort that had not been seen in many years.
Aaron Bachle Garrosh Hellscream's Horde was never the true Horde, the real true Horde. I understand that now. The Horde is not just about strength. It is also about honor and unity. Garrosh lost his way, and let hatred, fear, and bloodlust guide him. He turned on all the other races of the Horde that were not his own. He treated his allies as enemies until they finally did become his enemies. He even condemned those of his own race he saw as unworthy to death. Thrall was right, he failed the Horde. He failed us all. And he finally paid the ultimate price for everything he did.
Dapper Changeling Do some Horde quests, Garrosh actually killed his own high ranked Orcish underling because they were killing innocent people. He even warned Sylvanas to not act like the Lich King. He dares to talk smack about Varian.
He is a true warrior Orc. Gives no shit about what other think about him.
You cannot kill a legend.
Garrosh was less a legend than a cautionary tale.
That duel lost his purpose as a "mak'gora" when Thrall and Garrosh entered it with Doomhammer and Gorehowl
I think weapons are allowed as well, I'm not sure
@@fighterx9840 not in the traditional ones
@@Tatsu9522 ah ok
@@Tatsu9522 they are. The most common rule is that one weapon each may be used, blessed or otherwise.
Seriously who says that this fight is a mak'gora?
The Man Who was Betrayed By The Horde: R.I.P Warchief Garrosh Hellscream.
Betrayed, but never broken. Not even in death.
Anyone remember Garrosh speaking to Krom'gar?
"Honor," Krom'gar, "No matter how dire the battle....never forsake it." Overlord Krom'gar, you have disgraced the Horde. You have brought shame to us as a people.
Even though Garrosh pissed of everybody in Cataclysm he was still working for the Horde. He was not a peace loving warchief and he was a battle-hardened general, a tactical master from Northrend AND he hated the Alliance. He wanted to secure his Horde by gaining territory, In Mists he forsake any honor orc have and used tactics he wouldn't use before and thats where everybody was like "Ok, he has to go."
In chosing Mak'gora Thrall bound Garrosh to fight by the rules. As MPTotalDrama wrote in his comment the rules are next
- Each participant is allowed one weapon.
- A blessing of this weapon by a shaman of their choosing is permitted, but not required.
- Body armor is forbidden.
- Each participant must have at least one witness."
In conclusion, after i have been playing WoW for 6 years as Horde i must say this. Garrosh turned into a terrible person and has to be stopped, but if you call for a duel of honor you have to stick by the rules. Thrall cheated in the end and won.
I don't know much about the lore in WoD since i am getting it by the end of this week but i hope Grom gets his chance at Thrall and kills him. I am tired of Thralls character getting into everything.
where in the rules says he cant use his shamanistic powers? i really dont consider the elements a weapon, since its his power thats manipulating them, i can consider thrall using the elements as twisting the rules in his favor but not as much as cheating, since a shamanistic blessing to the weapons is allowed so the elements in battle are not forbbiden, and the armor thrall was using i think is only there to save time by not making a new tharll model without it, just for the model they didnt take it off
Actually, there weren't any cheats here... Mak'gora is Mak'gora here, but under the rules that were changed by Thrall while he was a Warchief on Azeroth (Traditionally, it is to the death, but under Warchief Thrall's rule it became a non-lethal combat, similiar to Warsong's Mak'Rogahn. Participants can choose to forgo this change.[1] However, even when operating under the old rules, the victor can choose to spare the loser's life.)...
Source: WoWpedia --- Mak'gora: Issued by Thrall to Garrosh Hellscream. This was a continuation of the duel between the two that happened just before the Scourge Invasion, but the old rules were used. Garrosh lost and was killed by Thrall.
funny you mentioning Garrosh in Cata, given he tipped the Alliance off to what ship Thrall was on when he was heading for the Maelstrom. Remember that ship the Alliance was blowing the hell out of when the Goblins came up on them accidentally? that was Thrall's. Garrosh literally was trying to kill him that early.
Wow fanbase :"Thrall, you don't fight with honor!"
Thrall brushing off Garrosh's ashes from his gloves "No. He did"
Василий Сабов omg Game of thrones reference hahaha
0:39 "Ours is a cycle of hatred"
How did I never notice that?!
Oh my god every video i fall for the steam notification sound. When will i learn
I wonder how Garrosh would react to the whole Sylvanas situation
He would kill her and nathanos before they can get to powerful
probably with a shit eating grin and I FUCKING TOLD YOU SO.
he reacted already in cata "... Bitch."
damn this shit still gives me chills.
remember: garrosh did nothing wrong
Indeed
Yeah he did nothing wrong, Thrall cheated with 4 Elements.....
uhh... yeah he did. did you bother to follow his history.?
@@shep9231 nah look again like really do and then come back
I mean he tried to doom pandaria just in the recent past. I feel like that is pretty wrong lol. Not to mention turning on everyone and killing anyone in the way
This made me cry dayum :(
Though I am with Thrall that Garrosh chose his own destiny as Warchief, I did feel for him when he shouted ' -YOU- make me Warchief! -YOU- left me, to pick up -YOUR- pieces! YOU! FAILED! MEEEEEEH! ' You could feel the actual hurt in his voice. And I seem to recall that Garrosh himself told Thrall that he was best suited on the battlefield, that he wasn't fit to be leader of the Horde. Sure, Thrall left him advisors still... And I feel like Garrosh had potential to be such a great character, brutal in battle, but always honourable, like he was in WotlK and Cataclysm ( where he even quotes Saurfang before tossing Krom'gar off the rock for doing basically the same thing that he later did to Theramore himself). Yet from Tides of War onwards he's suddenly Gardolf Hitlerscream with his ' orc masterrace'-rhetoric...
2:25 --> Windows XP Desktop wallpaper - EPIC mode ;)
Isn't thrall technically cheating
No he IS cheating.
What rule is he breaking? The rules were laid out in a few books and "no magic" was not one of them. Even then, the rules laid out have been changed in previous Mak'gora. It's not always for leadership, it's not always to the death, etc. The only rule you could maybe say he broke was bringing in outside help. Since Shaman powers require you to *ask* for help from intelligent entities AKA the elements. Not some vague force like the light or arcane. But that's about it.
No, firstly he breaks the rule to arrange a person to view the fight from both sides to ensure either don't cheat by using armor (thrall) or other outside forces (thrall) so he broke 3 . To further this Blizzard even continued it up by causing the elements to no longer serve him LITERALLY due to this. Rules of Orcish Mak'gora "Both participants must use only one weapon" - Thrall used his hammer, fire, earth, wind and lightning, "Both must have a witness" Thrall was ment to arrange it and didn't. So finally "Both must use no body armor" Thrall used full. So Basically Garrosh was cheated completely.
tickipooh
I'd point out that Garrosh was also wearing armor (Gauntlet and plate belt) so he cheated on that front too. Just less so than Thrall. Neither side had a witness. I don't see how it was specifically Thralls responsibility to arrange witnesses for them both. I'll give you the outside help part though since the elements are intelligent beings though.
It's worth mentioning also that the rules have been changed before on multiple occasions. They are not always the same and seem to be agreed upon between the combatants before hand. Also, Thrall used Shaman powers during his first Mak'gora with Garrosh in Orgrimmar. No one complained despite there being a cities worth of spectators. You'd think they would if it were really against the rules. It's shoddy writing on the writers part if true. Because the elements didn't abandon him back then either for "cheating" during the Mak'gora.
I did say "body" armor so no Thrall cheated and Garrosh was in the right. Not only that Thrall was the one who made the duel so he should have arranged the witnesses which he did not. The duel in Org was not a Mak'gora, hence why they were not fighting to the death and both wore armor. And to further my point the elements count as 4 weps due to each aspect of em. The base rules of a Mak'gora do not change and the ones I listed (each one thrall broke) were basic non changeable ones.
DAYUM… ever been hit so hard in game from one attack that it breaks your necklace? Lol
Even all this years, still nothing of value was lost.
Not even a single bit.
Mak'gora is traditionally supposed to be a one-weapon duel.
Thrall used his shamanic magic. Breaking these rules was very out-of-character. He's an honorable orc, and I think he should have died like one.
Andrew D'Acunto It says a single-weapon duel. Thrall had the Doomhammer. He used his magic after realizing that he was losing.
Thrall had an ethical decision to make regarding whether or not to allow Garrosh to live. Whether or not he broke a traditional rule is a moot point. The needs of many outweigh the wants of a few, so to speak. Thrall was ridding the world of a genocidal lunatic, which in my book mitigates the trespass of a broken rule.
Thrall understood the rules, but in his defense would you have fought fair against someone like Osama bin laden?
He had to die
To orcs, their honor is everything. Even more important than the lives of their entire clan. It doesn't matter how horrible Garrosh was, he should not have killed him like that. Thrall should have died, bloodied and beaten on the battlefield. As true orcs should.
"You failed me" makes me tear up erry time.
Like a Whitney child refusing to take responsibility for his own actions.
@@TheHeartlessFour Whitney? Who the fuck is that? Just stfu troglodyte.
@@MoRNiNGSTaR14125 Dude, why are you making such a huge deal out of it? He clearly meant to put 'whiny'. If you want to get on his case in such an immature manner for a simple misspelling, more than likely due to an autocorrect buggerup, then by that logic he'd have every right to call you a troglodyte just for saying 'erry time' instead of 'every time'. Chill out.
Funny that the very first major Orc we all came to love (through Warcraft 3) breaks one of the most sacred rules of his race.
Anything goes when it's to the death.
They unintentionally managed to show Garrosh as the good guy.
And Thrall as the biggest jackoff in the game.
Kenpos Holmes For once, Garrosh was in the right. Thrall DID make him Warchief, despite Garrosh's reluctance.
+jaharned1 He was reluctant, only because he wasn't political savvy, but he was told to listen to his advisers. Thrall trusted Garrosh to fill his stead while he joined the Earthen Ring. Bad choice on Thrall's part, but he couldn't have foreseen Garrosh going insane. Not to mention Garrosh did some really shitty things, even before MoP and WoD.
Remember when he evicted everyone who wasn't an orc or a Tauren and then proceeded to kill Cairne? And when he undermined every other Horde leader? I understand that you can't win them all, but if you treat those who are supposed to be your equals as less than yourself and completely demean them, you're not doing a very good job. Not to mention that the Hellscreams and the Warsong clan are KNOWN for their violence and bloodthirst. But honestly, he hadn't noticed from all those stories that his father had been enslaved and died for that same hunger for power? Maybe he should have tried to reform his ways to properly work beside the ENTIRE Horde instead of dismissing those who wanted peace as weak?
He's a war-mongering, racist, extremist, power hungry jerk who didn't listen to his advisers, threw out or killed anyone who opposed him, and then blamed Thrall for things that were his own doing. He might not have been ready to take on such a responsibility, but it doesn't excuse his actions against the Pandaren or anyone else for that matter. What Thrall did was in his right when Garrosh turned his back on the Horde instead of owning up to his actions like a big boy.
He basically committed genocide, and you're pegging him as innocent? Dude.
And Garrosh then tried to have Thrall killed by tipping the Alliance off. Ever wonder how they found out what ship he was on in the Goblin intro cinematic? that was Garrosh. this is Garrosh doing that when Thrall's trying to save the fucking WORLD.
"You never had the strength of a true warrior."
Nah, he only bested Orgrim Doomhammer in single combat when he was young, a feat only Durotan himself accomplished.
That giant hand would be such a fucking cool shaman root/stun ability
does anyone else notice that garrosh has a really good point?
The use of magic is very touchy subject in Warcraft. For a moment, i felt like the chat did and yelled "THRALL TOTALLY CHEATED" but then I had to step back and dug a little deeper into the rich lore that pre-existed, before the damn movie.
Okay, so before the existence of the movie, the "using of magic" was never specified for Mok'Gora. However, knowing Orcish lore, and their fall with Fel magic, one can assume that using fel is considered cheating. To begin, it's demon powers that the user has taken or digested. It is literally one with the user, corrupting them from the inside out. This speaks against their sacred traditions, to our next point, the Elements.
Again, taking from Orcish lore, we know that Shamans were the primary spellcasters for the Orcish clans. They were revered as elders, and viewed as people that held great power in their clans. (Especially when they gathered together once a year). HOWEVER, the question we need to ask is, is Shamanism considered magic?
If we take a moment and look around, there is another class with a similar position. Druids. Druids worship nature, becoming one with it. It is a power provided by the living things around them. The night elves do not consider it as magic, as the use of "arcane" magic was banned from Night Elven society for as long as we know (till recently, with the introduction of Night Elf Mages; and even then, we saw how negative Maiev Shadowsong reacted to that).
Shamanism works similar to druidism, however they worship the elemental spirits around them. This means that they do not forcibly take the powers of others and make it their own. They "Borrow" the powers of the elements to cast their spells. Both Shamanism and Druidism are seen as a way of borrowing powers from exterior sources, whereas Arcane and Fel are seen as either self developed or taken internally and claiming as their own.
---
tl;dr
So did Thrall cheat by using the power of the Elements? Lore speaking... i would say not; mainly because Shamanism isn't the same as Arcane or Fel Magic. It is a power that is granted by the elements around them. Though the meaning of words can easily be twisted, and he very well may have. Also, remember that the movie universe is its own thing. A lot of things are different in the movie, compared to the original lore.
Hope this has shed some light, do you agree? Disagree? Why? Would like to hear what other Lorewalkers think! :D
If you read the books the rules are clear, only one weapon allowed and no armor. He has the hammer, he has body armor and he uses magic. The only thing allowed is a Shaman's blessing besides the one weapon.
He's a dirty cheater.
Where does it specifically call out no shaman abilities? Calling down a lightning bolt is not a weapon so unless you can provide a specific passage I am afraid he didn't cheat.
The lore was there even before the "damn movie", so no. You wrote a wall for nothing.
Even if the use of magic or any kind of power was not strictly forbidden, the rule of "one weapon" is to take into account. It's here to make it fair ; the weapon is any one the fighter picks, but he has to stick with it. In this situation, powers can be considered a weapon since they can be used for combat. Which means, Garrosh came with only his axe ; Thrall could have faced him with only his hammer (former slave/gladiator, so not that uneven of a fight), but he also rocked the fireballs, tornadoes, molten hands and lightnings. If we are to follow the "one weapon" rule, he should have picked either his hammer or his shamanistic powers. He didn't. So I keep saying that, in a way, he cheated.
And I'm not counting his gear as "body armor". Seriously, what could THAT protect ?
While you do have a point that Shamanism, and to boot, Druidism are not technically magic, they are still an external force that could strike a target with no protection or preparation for that. Garrosh was neither armored nor prepared during that fight, and Thrall was indeed equipped with body armor.
The scenery and sky around them in this scene makes me feel like this was at one time the conclusion of the Mists storyline... but they pushed it back to WoD. Just looking at the grass and sky, nothing about it says Nagrand to me.. It says Pandaria.
+Ryusola I get where you're coming from, it does make sense, but this was definitely planned. They announced back when Pandaria came out that they had the next 2 expansions laid out.
Garrosh doesn't have the Tusks of Mannoroth, he lost them after his defeat at the Siege of Orgrimmar, so no, it's definitely Draenor.
Elmartopilon No I'm not talking from story and model vantage, obviously changing stuff like that to fit the plot of Draenor is viable, but the grass, the sky...that is NOT the plains of Nagrand from where I'm sitting. That looks like the mists of pandaria.
i still remember the first time i watched this and saw Thrall channel fire, that he would go on to become an even more conflicted character than he already was.
He dishonored himself big time by using magic in the tradition duel.
Thrall cant possibly be as old as he looks here, it hasnt been that fucking long since he was warchief
A lot of "Garrosh did the best he could" in the comments, like it's supposed to be a justification. Aww Garrosh, poor thing.
Garrosh is a grown up and grown ups take full responsibility for their actions, even if he was abused by Thrall. But he wasn't. If anything, only things he could have learned from Thrall were honor, diplomacy, wisdom, good will, levelheadedness, tolerance, etc. But he had the exact opposite traits: he was warlike, hotheaded, unwise, racist and dishonorable (mana bomb). So saying Thrall made him who he is, is bullshit. What Garrosh is, he got from his parents and/or from a very young age, but his true nature was hidden behind his depression when Thrall first met him.
Of course, Thrall isn't perfect. He's way too trusty with people and willing to give everyone a chance to get better. He thought Garrosh did a good job at Northrend so he could do a good job of leading the Horde. He had to give Garrosh something important to do. Maybe he thought that keeping Garrosh only as a warlord/general could lead him on the path of bloodlust, like his father? Maybe giving Garrosh more political responsibility could lead him off the path of warring and killing, which Grom so thoroughly enjoyed? And maybe orcs really weren't ready to follow a non-orcish leader at the time and the horde would have started falling apart? Who knows. I'm just trying to explain Thrall's line of thought. Now in hindsight, it was a bad decision. We can act smart now, as everyone is a general after the battle, as the proverb says. But at the time, you could only assume.
In the end, it was Garrosh who betrayed Thrall, his teachings and his thrust. After all Thrall and his allies did for him, he still ended up acting like a rabid dog biting the hand that feeds him, narrow minded and only caring for his own self and his small pack of like minded murderers. Thrall believed he could be something more and was at fault there, but seeing Garrosh do what he did, he knew he had to put him down mercilessly, just like a rabid dog.
Looking back on everything including this Garrosh wasnt actually that bad until he literally had all his horde 'allies' conspiring against and turning on him. He didnt know his axe had been poisoned, Theramore was a military target at the moment of the bombing and in response Jaina went on a racially charged killing spree and she is seen as a good person somehow. He really was doing it for the horde and was the best chance they ever had at defeating the Alliance.
Garrosh bombed her home. Jaina had every right to hate the Horde
Garrosh logic
Soldier bombs city without my permission-drops him off a ledge
Garrosh bombs a city and declares war on everyone and shows himself a hypocrite-creates a whole new expansion
*music starts* War....war never changes.
So because he cheated, aren't his powers abandoning him in legion?
How did he cheat? why is everyone saying this?
Garrosh dont have the shoulder pad because he lost in siege of orgrimmar
He used magic when he basically lost the fight.
a fair fight against a Tyrann who used so much terror ????
I see why Putin wins all the time now....
Tyran? You mean just an Orc that's following its instinct. Thrall cheated in an Orcish duel tradition, but it's not suprised, Thrall is a human raised Orc. If Blackhand, Orgrim, Grommash saw this they would spit on Thrall, or probably just take his head. I think even Saurfang would do this.
I don't know why these people are hating on Thrall. I thought this cinematic was awesome, despite being too short. First off: Thrall left Garrosh in charge TEMPORARILY because he was going to deal with the Cataclysm. Which he did, remember? The shit Garrosh pulled with the Iron Horde in Pandaria - that wasn't a result of anything Thrall ever did. That was Garrosh' personal ambition.
Remember the time when Garrosh killed Baine Bloodhoof? You know, one of Thralls best friends along with Senjin and a co-founder of the Horde? You people don't know your fucking lore man - and Garrosh challenged Thrall's leadership once before, only to be interrupted by the scourge. Why Thrall left him in charge of the Horde, well... Let's just say he perhaps wore a little too rose shaded glasses with his love of Grom Hellscream.
Finally - I'm pretty sure Mak'gora doesn't say anything about magic or what not. Besides, a guy like Garrosh has broken many agreements and acted very dishonorable on countless occations, and you still think Thrall is in the wrong for calling upon the elements to restore some balance?
The ones who hate Thrall for doing this probably never played Warcraft 3. I played the shit out of that game, and once you get your lore right, you'll understand why Thrall got "carried away" on this one. And the part of making Garrosh what he was - fucking no way man. Garrosh gave into his own hatred and lost his way many times, while Thrall always wanted to save him and give him second chances. He wanted to groom him for command, because he saw so much of Grom in him. In the end though, Garrosh wasn't like his father. He didn't save anyone, he didn't commit any sacrifices. He nearly tore the Horde apart, and saw orcs as better than other races - something he definitely didn't get from Thrall either.
So cut the shit talk. Garrosh had it coming for a looooong time.
True
Ahh shit I messed up the names of those two. I know it was Magatha who poisoned the axe, but to say Garrosh wasn't going to kill Cairne either way is a little, I don't know, naive?
Thrall still blames Garrosh for the death of Cairne though.
Erh, well, Thrall was kind of needed elsewhere was he not? It's not like he just grabbed a chill pill, right? And the shit Garrosh pulled on Pandaria had nothing to do with those domino effects, or the things he did when leading the iron horde. Thrall is at fault to some degree, but he's correct when he says: "No, you chose your own destiny." Because that's true. Garrosh could have been a wiser leader, but he wasn't. He could have united the horde and became a great example, but he never was that. Thrall may live in some degree of denial, but Garrosh was never the leader Thrall wanted to carve him into.
Don't listen to this guy, his post is full of mistakes, what the fuck...? Here is why:
1. First of all, Garrosh was a war-hero at end of WOTLK, and was a VERY popular individual in the Orcish community. Thrall acknowledge that, and thought it would be a good idea to make Garrosh the future Warchief, (even tho Thrall preferred Draenosh as Warchief more, because he was much calmer).
2. Garrosh NEVER challenged Thrall for his leadership. Garrosh challenged Thrall because Thrall insulted his father Grom Hellscream and also for Thrall's lack of action against the Scourge. In the end, Garrosh was right, the Scourge is a danger and must be dealt and the duel between Garrosh and Thrall would another time.
3. Cairne Bloodhoof challenges Garrosh for leadership, blaming Garrosh for things he actually didn't do, the Orcish grunts and Kor'krons almost wanted to kill Cairne at the gate of Orgrimmar. Garrosh told the Orcs to back off. So Garrosh basically saved Cairne's life, yet Cairne continues blaming Garrosh for things he didn't do, and gave Garrosh a punch in his face, for some reason Garrosh still gave Cairne the duel he demanded out of his honour.
Imo Garrosh should have let his Orcs slaughter this ignorant idiot rage-cow Cairne. Fuck Cairne.
4. Garrosh ALWAYS wanted to destroy the Alliance and anyone who oppose the Horde. This was his plan back in WOTLK as well. If Thrall really cared about peace he should NEVER make Garrosh Warchief, because Thrall was damn aware of Garrosh uncontrollable aggression against the enemies.
As natural warbringer as Garrosh, he saw his people are suffering of the harsh land of Durotar, Garrosh decided to invade Pandaria and take powerful artifact to empower his army and conquer the world for the Horde.
And no, Garrosh isn't a racist towards the non-Orcs. According to Blizzard but also Garrosh-ingame, Garrosh only is a racist to anyone who doesn't want to fight the Alliance. Such a person is a coward in his eye and gets kicked out of the Horde.
1. I didn't mention that, true, but the fuck is wrong in my post concerning that? Did Thrall not intend to return to the horde once he wrapped things up with the Earthern Ring?
2. Garrosh' challenge to Thrall for his lack of action against the scourge WAS a challenge to his leadership, and when the hell did Thrall ever insult Grom Hellscream? Reference please. And Thrall was in long term correct to not launch a full scale attack on Northrend.
3. Jesus fuck you really are a Garrosh fanboy with that statement, my god. I like characters, but you seriously need to get a better understanding when it comes to the difference between character knowledge. Cairne did what he did out of spite for what Garrosh was doing and how he was leading, AND because of how he thought Garrosh had something to do with the slaughter of Ashenvale druids. Which Cairne didn't know at the time.
4. I don't play WoW anymore, but just for your information, your "for the horde" attitude really ruins your otherwise valid points. Stop fanboying and your contribution would actually be appreciated. And don't tell me there isn't some racism in Garrosh believing in superior races, come the fuck on bro.
This. So much this.
Garrosh has been nothing but a whiny orc with daddy issues since we saw him being angsty in Nagrand (Outland). I hated him in Northrend because instead of focusing on defeating the Scourge and the Lich King he was obsessed with the Alliance for no good reason, other than his daddy fought and got his ass handed to him by the "weakling" Alliance. Then they made him Warchief, and we saw nothing but him being a power-hungry madman up and down Azeroth.
He's been nothing but a pathetic character from day one and I'm glad he's finally, FINALLY dead.
How much you wanna bet, though, that Metzen has such a hard-on for Garrosh as antagonist that the Legion will somehow recover his body and make him into a new Lich King 2.0 to start a second Scourge since Bolivar Fordragon ain't going to kowtow to their stupidity any more than Arthas did?
Garrosh's skull is really tough, it can survive pandaren"s fist into a recently tattooed jaw (ouch, that must hurt), orc's kick and even 3 blows from the most powerful hammer in WoW's history. And even after that he was not dizzy.
hammers are useless in cinematics. Like dude gets hit by a huge one and its like its made of plastic... He should have his face caved in... hammers hit harder than swords or axes...
"The quality of mercy is not strained... ...It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
.. ...His scepter shows the force of temporal power... ...But mercy is above this sceptered sway... ...Though justice be thy plea, consider this: That in the course of justice none of us should see salvation. " - Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice
You could hear the remorse in Garrosh's voice :(
Remorse? I doubt it. Garrosh was a psychopath and a war criminal. In the end, he tried blaming his sins on Thrall instead of recognizing it was his own fault and accepting responsibility for his actions.
The sad thing is you could imagine garrosh feeling as much like thrall abandoned him, as the wall feels he let down garrosh.
Ultimately though it is an excuse. Likely garrosh's damaged mind rationalising everything he's done as warchief.
Exceptionally well handled by blizzard, this is the single best quest in game since the Wrathgate.
*thrall
Autocorrect /facepalm
Garrosh only did what he did cause of the stories of his father, Grommash. He thought he was doing the right thing, Thrall is really too blame since he appointed Garrosh, Warchief at a moment where he had no guidance, no help and it doesn't help that thrall just up and left when Garrosh had no real idea how to be a warchief other than the stories of Grommash.
Actually, in the wow book the shattering by Christie golden, it explains that thrall never intended garrosh to be self appointed warchief, he simply wanted him to be steward, sort of a denathor lotr thing. They give themselves too much power and then they go insane
"You don't have the strength of a true warrior!", Garrosh
"My power is all around you", Thrall
The lines have double meaning in the way both lead the Horde.
U made me warchief!!!
Thrall had to chose between his own honor and the future of his people. When the time came to chose, he did not hesitate.