The End w/ @CoffeePotato Ivan @WarrenReport | Tactics Ogre Analysis (FINALE) | State of the Arc
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- Опубліковано 30 січ 2024
- Ok, here we are now! The end of the series! We go over CH. 4 of Law route and then venture a bit into Coda with @CoffeePotato Ivan and @WarrenReport and a special shout out to @Burak_C for being a beast. Thanks for coming on this journey with us! Big things are just ahead.
Time Codes:
1.
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It was a fun opportunity to get to chime in for one of these! Thank Y'all for having me, and covering this complicated hydra of a game!
dude i literally started playing the game the other day and was watching your guides lmfao. (obviously i havent finished the game, im just here because ivan is on this ep)
@@ArtificialVikIvan was a damn amazing guide for this!
Hey hey, congrats friend! You were great on the video!
@@WarrenReport You as well, though I wish the 10ish minutes of us just rambling about random things had made it, that got lost for technical reasons.
@@CoffeePotato Damn! I bet it is Lodis thing
thank you for interrupting Ivan's "apology" he pulled a lot of weight for this presentation and we are grateful for his contribution
After defending Ivan myself in an earlier comment section, hearing Mike shut that apology down so hard was amazing. He didn’t ruin anything people are crybabies.
🧙♂Thank you very much for the opportunity friends! This saga of videos was really fantastic to watch and I hope you became part of the Ogre Battle fan club like the rest of us hehehehe May you have an enlightened and successful life from now on, especially on the Resonant Arc channel! Big hug from your friend, WARREN REPORT
You really went all out Warren getting all the voice actors to participate in your segment. Major props!
Oh hey thank you for the shoutout, I have been a fan of your content since the Dark Pixel days, never would have guessed I would be mentioned in this channel one day, Its a fun feeling and there is definitely absolutely no need apologize at all, I know how hectic schedules can be. Also I'm really happy those Coda movies have been useful to you. Only reason I made them was so that people never needed to grind a 115 floor dark lords basement to enjoy the extra story content. All in all I just want to say that I really enjoyed this podcast of one of my favorite games and its really cool to see Coffee and Warren here. And I'm really looking forward to the next podcast with the "Updating my journal" guy's game.
Thank you so much for everything on your channel your work was instrumental!
@@orcbrandThank you, really glad to hear it
You´re the best my friend
Something I noticed about the princess ending is that Catiua is suddenly just fine with Denam leaving her alone again and leaving for Xenobia. This confused me at first because she was so obsessed with Denam as the only family she had left. And him "leaving her" was what caused their rift to begin with. But then I thought about it and it made more sense. She tied all of her self-worth to the role of "Denam's sister" and pursued that goal at the expense of everything else. Which led her into the arms of Tartaros. ("I loved Denam, but he was no Brother to me.")
Her downfall echoes her father Dorgalua, who couldn't overcome the loss of his family and went to the underworld trying to revive them somehow. Which drove him to madness at the cost of his responsibility as the King. Leading to the current conflict of Valeria.
But once Denam came back to Catiua and told her that he would never leave again, she realized she was also to blame for their parting. ("Forgive me Denam. How could I have been so Selfish?" versus "I am a burden no more".) So with that weight lifted off her shoulders, she was able to slide right into the leadership role that she was always capable of. Which we saw a little bit of in early chapter 1 when she was the "Voice of reason" character for Vyce and Denam.
On my first view of the character I thought her obsessive attitude towards Denam was leaning heavily on lazy tropes for female characters who pursue the male character as their only goal.
I think that trope still there to some extent, but now I think her character arc is really about how insecurity can hold us back from our true potential.
Turns out she wasn't a burden but was in fact needed, not by just her brother but by the entire kingdom. By embracing her role as queen she could tap into her motherly impulses without them being a hindrance to anyone. She could finally let Denam go and be his own person: he no longer relied on her, but she no longer had to rely on him to rely on her, instead she had a whole kingdom relying on her. Both characters could finally become who they could be independently of each other, but only once they made Valeria independent first. It's a neat way for the story to come full circle. Catiua was a deeply frustrating character during the time she was stuck as a lowborn sybil, but the way she was frustrating and her own frustration were both highly believable. Love her character and her development and growth through the game.
This was a great series, I'm very proud to have been part of this, and thanks everyone who followed along with us.
Thank you so much for your input and planning. Your path order and bringing up harder to find content were on point.
I thought your contribution to this series was great! Very in-depth.
On another note, since you had some luck with emailing SE about remaking Tactics Ogre, can you please do the same for Vagrant Story!? 😀
Naw, but seriously.. I think it's criminal that such a masterpiece as Vagrant Story is so inaccessible these days. I pray that SE does *something* with it to revitalize it.
Cheers!
Whoa you brought in the Tactics Ogre Avengers.
Thank you for taking time make this series, and for inviting Coffe and Warren. I am so happy to have like minded people nerding out over the game I have loved the most growing up.
The´re awesome!
I'd want to add to the Caitua / Princess discussion two more points:
(1) Caitua is mentioned to be under the tutelage of Lanselot Tartaros, and it really does seem like he managed to bring out her latent leadership skills. There is missable dialogue between Caitua and Martym / Barbas where Caitua essentially mocks the other two Dark Knights for not being in Lanselot Tartaros' confidence, and how she was the only one who truly learned from him.
(2) Matsuno explicitly argues that people would be more keen to accept Caitua rather than Denam because of her family legacy.
"Matsuno says that the reasoning behind the endings is that the long period of strife has left the people yearning for a saviour, and as the daughter of a charismatic king, Caitua fits that role perfectly. Matsuno points out the tendency for second-generation people to be well-liked in politics, sports, and show business in real life as well, and says that the people of Valeria have similar hopes for Caitua.
Without her charisma, the people's resentment remains, and is directed at Denam, who has become the king, and that is why Matsuno made it so that in that case the future would look dark and uncertain."
Completely agree with guys, Ivan was great to have on. Fun podcast series overall
Amazing guests, and Ivan did a great job pointing out a lot of interesting bits throughout this, especially with all the ties to the other games. There's so much to uncover, both in the story branches and mechanically.
Amazing podcast, loved it all. Thanks to Ivan for his work here!
Coffee potatoeeeeee! Warren report! Awesome thx for having guests on, you guys are legit thank you for all you do
Thank You for watching, glad to amuse!
Thanks to all!
To Mike's first question on Vyce's motivations, and why he would choose to be bait so Denam could storm Coritanae:
I think that in the law route Vyce was in a position where he was actually allowed to grow into a leader. CoffeePotato also had a great point about him finally receiving validation being a contributing factor towards his growth into a decent man as well. He's risen to truly fighting for the cause he's been talking about so passionately for the whole game at this point. That said, I don't much care for the idea that he sent Denam off to be the glorious victor so that he'd have a shot with Catiua; he constructed the plan in such a way that his survival was, frankly, at least somewhat unlikely. That makes it hard for me to see him arranging it this way so he can maybe spit game at the girl he likes.
Mike almost seemed like he was going to touch on something with his first pass at the question, and I think he was correct in what he might've been alluding to; I think that Vyce being the one at Psonji and Denam being the one to attack Coritanae was decided out of necessity. I think this is due to the reputation of each man though, and not out of a belief that Denam was more capable of the task at hand.
In the law route at this point, Galgastan believes that Denam is absolute scum, and that all of his actions have been in the service of his own lust for power. The conversations between Denam and Generic Knight #8 during your fifth visit to Xeod Moors can feel a bit redundant sometimes, but I also think that it is meant to show you how pervasive this opinion of him is within the enemy's ranks and leadership. Vyce, on the other hand, is a man who is known to have abandoned the Walister Resistance due to his disgust with their underhanded or heinous methods. He then assembled a new force to fight both the Galgastani and the Walister Resistance. These two men are the leaders of this newly unified Walister resistance and both known to lead from the front, so the absence of either of them at Psonji will certainly be noticed.
In all routes we are shown that Vyce is cunning, but in the law route we're shown that he's become much more measured or considered. He knows that they will lose the battle at Psonji, and they will likely still need to buy time for the main force to take Coritanae Keep. I also believe that he knows that "Denam abandoned us when he realized we'd be crushed," would be a much more plausible narrative than for Vyce to have done. He states outright that the whole plan is a major gambit, so I think that he'd seek to wring every hour that he could out of it. If Denam, the self-serving coward is gone, maybe the Galgastani try to beat his whereabouts out of some high value captives. If Vyce, the principled and capable leader is gone, they may realize immediately after the battle that something is afoot.
CoffeePotato AND Warren Report on the ep? Hell yeah
The internet here in Xenobia is still kind of rudimentary, but we try to do our best!
Great job gentlemen, loved the analysis of this game from episode 1-10. I really enjoy when you bring in subject matter experts from the community, really adds insight to the analysis. The final episode of this, and final episode of 16 have been some of my favorites. Keep up the good work
Haha Mike you're the man dude that was awesome 👌 👏 👍 Casen you're the man too I love you guys thank you again for all your hard work and great content. Thank you to the guests also
I really like the way you figured out how to do an audio podcast over discord with this one, massive improvement over the last time you had guests on the show! and over all, great work on Tactics Ogre, it really made me want to pick it up and play the game myself.
Many thanks for the series, it is always great to see this game being enjoyed a shame we may never see a new game.
Crimson Shroud!! I never thought I'd hear that brought up again, I'm very pleasantly surprised, that game's awesome. Super bite sized and definitely a little passion project of Matsuno's, it feels very much like seeing the inside of Matsuno's mind without much other interference. Goodness, I doubt it'd win on any polls or anything but I'd really like to hear Mike's thoughts on it if he does end up going for it. I'd definitely play along with that one.
It's hard to describe it, I'd put Crimson Shroud somewhere in between Radical Dreamers and "if 1/5th of Vagrant Story was actually an old D&D module."
Looking forward to Planescape: Torment. If I could give any advice going in, I'd say the temptation might be strong to go try and look up tons of stuff about Planescape as a setting, the history of it in D&D and a lot of D&D terms and ideas, but I say resist that urge, go in blind. The only thing I'd say to really decide upon ahead of time is how much you want to dedicate to parsing how certain stats affect the overall story experience, the biggest example being Wisdom being pretty key in the game for opening up all your options in the game. Perhaps one of you could run with extremely high Wisdom and the other just do what feels organic and compare?
Thank you for an awesome final episode, not only Mike and Casen, but every guest involved and the whole community's support. Never stop finding feeling passion and finding personal meaning through these pursuits.
I'd also love to hear Mike's thoughts on it! I got so excited when he mentioned it 😀
Man what a journey, probably my favorite series of your alongside xenogears, great work everyone!
Feels like the end of an era. Looking forward to the next series!
Fantastic editing by Warren Report.
Thank you! I just called some friends here in Xenobia to record during the dinner break at the castle!
The final episode needed a soul fetching spell, the Tactics Ogre League.
Gotta say that vid from warren report was legit, I got goosebumps. Did he clip the actors voices together from promos or trailers or did he literally have the actors say those lines? Surreal hearing coffee potatoe converse with my state of the arc boys. Hoping for more guests on future projects. Also, come on Mike and Casen give us the ff7 podcast. Forget all the other ff7 content just do the original game
I have the same question!
In a recent Q&A Mike said he’d prefer to do FFVII after the entire Remake trilogy is at least completed. Not because it would have anything to do with Remake or what Square is currently doing on that side, but more in hopes of having a less crazed (my word, not his) reaction to his thoughts and opinions on the OG game. Let’s be real, even giving it all the warnings in the universe (this is the OG 1997 Final Fantasy VII we are discussing! Not the compilation games. Not Remake. Not Advent Children, etc) people will still make comments about games outside of the OG release, whether they mean to or not. It sucks, but that’s just how it is.
I can understand the feeling of wanting to wait, and respect it. They’ll do it when they’re ready, and I look forward to that day when/if it comes.
Xenobia´s magic my friend, the old astromancer still has a few tricks up his sleeve
@WarrenReport I know North America voice actors will do things like this for fans onesie twosie, but you collected quite the wide net of voice actors. Very impressive!
@@WarrenReport lmao fair enough warren, fair enough
If you enjoy the Ogre Battle series, then please go out and get Unicorn Overlord when it comes out on March 8th. That game has the spirit of this series and looks great!
Yes! Unicorn Overlord is looking great so far.
1:27:18 Two sayings come to mind, one of which you bought up. 1. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. 2. Forgive and forget. In the case of the latter, you don't actually forget, but rather put it out of your mind, whatever trauma it might be. I think there's a way for these two sayings to both work with one another without contradiction. There's an old Irish song called the town I loved so well that pertains to what I'm getting at.
"Now the music's gone but they carry on
For their spirit's been bruised, never broken
They will not forget but their hearts are set
On tomorrow and peace once again
Now what's done is done and what's won is won
And what's lost is lost and gone forever
I can only pray for a bright brand new day
For the town I Iove so well."
Can relate it to the main lesson that we saw from Jacob's ladder beautifully put by Casen:
"Let go of the attachment, not of the love"
We could attribute it to the message of this game as:
"Let go of the hatred, not of the lesson"
I really enjoyed this series. A difficult game to cover, sure, but I loved it all the same. And now, all three of Matsuno's major games have been covered on the podcast (yeah, I'm not counting FFXII, even though it's a fantastic FF, but it's not as much a "personal" Matsuno work as TO, FFT, VS are)! I also agree with Mike, as great and fascinating as the story is in Tactics Ogre, Vagrant Story clears it pretty easily, and is also my favourite Matsuno game. The storytelling, writing and cinematics in particular are near-flawless, and are still some of the best in the industry to this day -- no joke! Thanks for the great discussion!
It's so funny to me that even though I knew about all the Queen references... It took me up until recently to realize One Vision.
Oh my god, I just noticed this too and I played through One Vision twice.
Gimme gimme gimme FRIED CHICKEN!
Loved this series! Please consider covering Ogre Battle 64, or at least another game from the Ogre saga, too good to just cover one of the games.
Woooh CoffeePotato!!
OH MY GOD It's finally time... Time for Torment! I've been waiting for this for so long lmao
Did they confirmed the game id coming?
5:30 I wouldn't recommend Knight of Lodis. It's like going from FFT to FFT Advance. It's more of an entry-level SRPG and the narrative is weak. Mechanically, it's a dumbed down & unbalanced class system. The enemies don't get the same buffs / equipment you progressively accumulate so you just stomp them the deeper in you go. You'll have characters with 10-15 badges (boosting strength, etc) while all the enemies only have the ones pertaining to changing to the class.
Story-wise, it's a cross between Tactics Ogre (island nation) but with the high fantasy of Ogre Battle baked in (which makes the ending a bit unsatisfying because most of the resolution is political since it's showing how Lans T as a kid ended up in his position as an adult, and has little to do with what transpired during the actual game). You could probably just watch the cutscenes on UA-cam. Maybe only 3 characters get any type of development.
Ogre Battle MOTBQ is a much different type of story telling, there are no cutscenes so EVERYTHING you have to imagine in your head. Similar to other older SNES games of the era like I think FF6 that you discussed a bit, where you fill in a lot of the blanks yourself.
Fetching souls (don't know what else to say to bump the algorithm so I just quote my favorite... quote of this podcast)
Great series. And as an old geezer, I appreciated the Flash Gordon shout out.
“Tell me about this man Houdini”
Your love of the game makes wanna try it but intimidating and i find it hard to get the time.. and i give up onmmost games i tried for years. Damn im ge5ting old... maybe i will one day
Yeah fuck those people. ivan been a good voice on the subject and definently one of the reasons i watched this podcast series awesome input.
Do we start Planescape Torment next week already?
Oh, hell yeah, that should be a watch and a half
Can we just talk about Mike's amazing avatar
Love yall thanks for the podcast- due to how the recording went i swear this will live rent free in my head as the claustrophobic series 😂 excited for yalls new set!
Great podcast series guys! I really enjoyed it👍
Great work everyone.
This content is great. Thanks!
Casein 2024
❤👍Great very nice podcast
WarrenReport!!!! CoffeePotato!!! WOHOOOO
Burak C!! oh my all TacticsOgre must watch content
They´re the best, arent they?
Cassen is a menace lol.
Cason looking mega chill
Loved the episode and this series. Hope for more awesome stuff from you guys
Love the podcast you guys. It fills me with joy. Looking forward to the next project! Brave Fencer Musashi when?
I'd love for them to cover that one.
im a few episodes behind so i cant watch this right away - but can anybody let me know whats coming next after this series? I dont want to jump around the video and accidentally hear things I'm not ready to!
Planescape Torment.
@@orcbrand thank you!
Yes.
love it yall
I have a lot of thoughts that I could go on about, but there’s just one that I think is relevant:
Japan… please stop treating magic like an atom bomb equivalent; stop turning it into something that’s better off gone when it should be a natural thing that PEOPLE are screwing with irresponsibly. Even if it’s gone, the world isn’t automatically better; people will still be impulsive and stupid and capable of cruelty.
In a sea of games and shows and other things presenting magic this way, I've always appreciated Golden Sun for arguing the opposite.
No matter how much potential magic has for good, it has even more potential for bad. It's like someone bringing guns into a medieval setting. The world may not be better, but it wouldn't be worse.
@@fenrir3097 Yes, but so does anything ever. Do we just go back to the stone age or something, then? People have been doing terrible things since time immemorial, it's not like things are better OR worse just because these factors are in play; that's a lie people tell themselves when they romanticise the past.
On the guns bit, if Japanese media would stop replacing a magical world with a technological one and treat it with the assumption that it's an improvement, I wouldn't complain. But their imagination often gets up to, "Our world is better..." and stops there (hello, FFXIII trilogy!)
Still not had time to try this... and now more c9me.. unicorn overlord
My sweet sweet potatoe
Wait. What game is next??
Casen Sperry looks like clancy brown.
No ai voices in the future please. I toned out immediately and pulled over to fast forward. A person reading is always better.