Literally just finished Kagemusha and this scene was one of my favorites. Imagine paying your respects to a dead rival with song about the fragility of life
I think this is a sign of the highest respect under these archrivals.When one has fallen or died the victor honurs his strongest and most powerfull enemy because this enemy was a more than worthy opponent even for such a powerfull conquerer like Oda Nobunaga.Even Tokugawa said that he want to drink Sake with Takeda Shingen in the afterlife.From what I know:Shingen was not only a skilled and powerfull Daimyo he was also very innovative when it comes to make his province kai wealthy,blooming and very dominant.Tokugawa later took over alot of Shingens achievements to make the entire country wealthy and blooming.Nobunaga and Shingen where both innovative in their own ways.Nobunaga revolutionized the strategies of warfare.And also he revolutionized the trading with the europeans.Hideyoshi restrictet the law of weapons.From this three historical figures Tokugawa took over a lot and after a war that raged nearly 140 years finally he brought his country to peace.After Tokugawa Ieyasu died many things was restricted by his successors and the country borders were closed and japan was isolated again.
I used to think that Oda Nobunaga was nothing more than a vicious, murdering psychopathic brute devoid of a soul but this scene shows that he was not what people think he is. He was a fierce warrior but was also an elegant, complex man with a love for poetry and the arts and was, at times, lenient with people even his enemies.
According to what I have read about him, Nobunaga had many qualities, some of them exceptional. However, he seens to have lacked the most important one, the quality that defines a man's character: loyalty.
@@nessuno6110 A lot of truth in that statement, this was actually reflected in the way he wore his hair in the ponytail of a ronin rather than the topknot of a nobleman, I think this was his way of telling both his allies and enemies he was loyal only to his own cause and could remove them if he felt it necessary.
There just something deeply profound about this scene words are hard pressed to define ... honor & nobility definately fit and dare i add "awe & humility"... even after years this scene stuck with me as well ... I too gladly thank you for sharing
It took some time to figure it out but it turned out samurai (Those who were nobility) were mostly stoic and used few words when speaking and only had full conversations with those they deemed worthy of them.
A series of discoveries about the "Japanese Warring States Period" around the world have revealed that Europe and Japan during the Age of Exploration were strongly connected and shook history on a global scale.The era of Nobunaga Oda and Hideyoshi TOYOTOMI.European documents from the 16th century were released, and we could see the deep connection between Nobunaga Hideyoshi and the Christian missionaries who came to Japan and Portugal and Spain behind them.It depicts the intentions of each person and the subtle tactics of dealing with each other.The era of Tokugawa Ieyasu's rule of the world.The newly discovered document described the deep connection between Dutch merchants and Ieyasu.The Netherlands wanted silver, then the most important international currency.A fierce battle between the Netherlands and superpower Spain over Japan's silver, which accounts for one-third of the world's output, will begin.Japan, a warring nation that became the front line of the struggle between the two countries for hegemony,
Could someone explain more the significance of the song he sang. Is it a tribute to Shingen. That Oda is so impressed that he was deceived by his opponent?
Atsumori was a play about a soldier killed in the Genpei War and who appears as a ghost afterwards. In the film, Shingen has died in combat but lives on in a sense via his doppelganger. The particular verse is about how much of life is an illusion. Nobunaga was a massive fan of the play in real life and would quote it often. It also establishes that while Nobunaga was fascinated with Western culture (look at that room), he was still deeply rooted in Japanese culture.
I'm not too sure about how it fits into this specific film plot (haven't watched it) but it's a direct reference to a popular legend that says that Oda Nobunaga performed this dance in front of his soldiers right before riding to the battle of Okehazama, where he was expected to lose but was ultimately victorious. Nearly every production (theatre, film, videogame, anime, etc.) has Nobunaga performing it.
fun facts about atsumori play, it was depicting the death of Taira Atsumori from Taira clan in genpei war against Minamoto clan.. and surprisingly Oda Nobunaga also claimed as Taira clan's descendant
@@neverstreamer4875 its gonna be a long explanation, but let's start! In the movie particularly, Oda Nobunaga tend to perform atsumori not to express how he had been deceived by the kagemusha, on the other hand he expressed admiration as a daimyo and a samurai after he learned about Shingen's unexpected death. He also express his admiration for Shingen's tactical genius on the battle. To fully understand why Nobunaga express his admiration by performing Atsumori, we can know that Nobunaga love so much about Atsumori play which derives from the Heike no Monogatari (the tale of the heike). Futhermore, the impermanence of life which similar to a dream and illusions,life for living things only came once and then fade away. Impermanence and nothingness are the main theme of The Heike no monogatari and also in the Atsumori. Heike no monogatari tries to imply to its reader that human is simply a sort of small dust in a giant cosmic universe, as stated in the Heike no Monogatari's opening verse : "驕れる者も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢の如し The proud do not endure, they are like a dream on a spring night" "猛き者も遂には滅びぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ The mighty fall at last, they are as dust before the wind." Moreover, here some atsumori verses that will bring you some ideas about the impermanence and nothingness of achievement in human life compared to the fleeting of time : "思へばこの世は常の住み家にあらず In truth, this world is not eternally inhabited" "草葉に置く白露、水に宿る月よりなほあやし It is more transient than dewdrops on the leave of grass, or the moon reflected in the water." "金谷に花を詠じ、榮花は先立つて無常の風に誘はるる After reciting the poetry of flower at Kanaya, all glory is now left with the wind of impermanence." "人間五十年、化天のうちを比ぶれば、夢幻の如くなり Human life lasts only 50 years, Contrast human life with life of Geten (similar to heaven), It is but a very dream and illusion." "一度生を享け、滅せぬもののあるべきか Once they are given life from god, there is no such thing don't perish." --------- To add that, Oda Nobunaga also performed Atsumori before he ambushed Imagawa at Okehazama due to his perception of "human life is just a mere dust before the wind" , and Nobunaga fully understand and wanted to make a meaningful achivement in his life or epic ending by whatever he could do even if he must be perished in the battle, but hey, he won the battle. That's all that i can get about why Nobunaga tend to love Atsumori, and depicted in this scene.
Atsumori was Nobunaga's distant ancestor from same Taira clan. His killer was from Minamoto clan, which became Shogun after destroying Taira clan. Shingen was a descendant of Minamoto clan. So, here, Nobunaga tries to imply that he is going to avenge the tragedy that happened to his Taira ancestor and fate has been reversed for the Takeda, descendants of the Minamotos, with the death of shingen.
En español mas que cantar era un recital de esta lira.Mas bien se alegra de su muerte pues era un verdadero obstáculo.En parte se entristecen pero mas bien todos se alegran
While I'm not sure, I think the man reporting Shingen's death to Nobunaga could be Toyotomi Hideyoshi, I say this because he was one of the Oda's most loyal retainers and was already beginning to carve his own path to greatness at the time this film's set.
I often thought at the beginning that Nobunaga was enraged for being played for a fool by Shingen. The person bringing him the news worried about his own life or wondering if Nobunaga was about to blow a blood vessel. (nervous shrug).
According to an article I read, it was awarded to Nobunaga when he made Yoshiaki Shogun. But if the scene is after Shingen's death then isn't it also after he deposed Yoshiaki? Would he have still used it if he had bad blood with the Ashikaga? In any case the most common mon used by the Oda was the Japanese quince and given the fact that the paulownia emblem is more famously known as the Toyotomi mon, it seems a weird choice to make in a movie production even if it isn't technically inaccurate for Nobunaga to have used it.
@@matthews1082 I do recall reading that he performed it right before his death at Honnoji. Though I can't help but think the claim, however popular, tends to swing a little more towards romanticism than historical fact. It just seems too perfect that the two times he's noted as having performed it was Okehazama and Honnoji.
Even though Kagemusha and Ran are truly beautiful from a purely visual standpoint, I prefer Kurosawa's earlier work, which I've always thought had more soul and wit to it. That said this particular scene is simply magnificient.
Oda Nobunaga: That punk, Azai Nagamasa, double crossed me! I shall annihilate him and his clan as well as take over his lands! Shibata Katsuie: Boss, if Nagamasa dies, can I have Oichi? Oda Nobunaga: Fine! Hashiba (Toyotomi) Hideyoshi: Boss, if Nagamasa dies, can I have one of his daughters, what’s her name, um…Chacha?! Oda Nobunaga: You dirty pervert!
@@luckystroke126 The Chinese equivalent would be "a dead Zhuge can scare a living Zhongda". When Sima Yi heard of such ridicule, he laughingly responded, "I can predict the living, but not the dead."
Literally just finished Kagemusha and this scene was one of my favorites. Imagine paying your respects to a dead rival with song about the fragility of life
これまで色々な方々が信長を演じてきましたが、隆大介さんの信長が一番美しく信長らしくカッコいいです。ご冥福を心よりお祈り申し上げます。
この人の信長が一番好き
隆大介さんこの頃、22or23歳。新人と紹介されてたけど、発声も貫禄があり背も187cmと高く素晴らしい信長役だと思います
I watched this when I was about 12 years old. Never forgot. My thought was "Nobility, Honor". Thank you so much for sharing this.
日本列島の屏風、馬印、西洋の鎧兜、萌黄色の裃、全てが完璧な映像です。
I think this is a sign of the highest respect under these archrivals.When one has fallen or died the victor honurs his strongest and most powerfull enemy because this enemy was a more than worthy opponent even for such a powerfull conquerer like Oda Nobunaga.Even Tokugawa said that he want to drink Sake with Takeda Shingen in the afterlife.From what I know:Shingen was not only a skilled and powerfull Daimyo he was also very innovative when it comes to make his province kai wealthy,blooming and very dominant.Tokugawa later took over alot of Shingens achievements to make the entire country wealthy and blooming.Nobunaga and Shingen where both innovative in their own ways.Nobunaga revolutionized the strategies of warfare.And also he revolutionized the trading with the europeans.Hideyoshi restrictet the law of weapons.From this three historical figures Tokugawa took over a lot and after a war that raged nearly 140 years finally he brought his country to peace.After Tokugawa Ieyasu died many things was restricted by his successors and the country borders were closed and japan was isolated again.
I used to think that Oda Nobunaga was nothing more than a vicious, murdering psychopathic brute devoid of a soul but this scene shows that he was not what people think he is. He was a fierce warrior but was also an elegant, complex man with a love for poetry and the arts and was, at times, lenient with people even his enemies.
According to what I have read about him, Nobunaga had many qualities, some of them exceptional. However, he seens to have lacked the most important one, the quality that defines a man's character: loyalty.
@@nessuno6110 A lot of truth in that statement, this was actually reflected in the way he wore his hair in the ponytail of a ronin rather than the topknot of a nobleman, I think this was his way of telling both his allies and enemies he was loyal only to his own cause and could remove them if he felt it necessary.
There just something deeply profound about this scene words are hard pressed to define ... honor & nobility definately fit and dare i add "awe & humility"... even after years this scene stuck with me as well ... I too gladly thank you for sharing
I'd never accuse Oda of humility but he did respect his enemies
I love their martial, warrior pronunciation and short stern sentences, it is so middle-age Japanese... Lovely scene.
It took some time to figure it out but it turned out samurai (Those who were nobility) were mostly stoic and used few words when speaking and only had full conversations with those they deemed worthy of them.
Kagemusha es una obra maestra,impresionante en todo.Ahonda en lo mas profundo del ser
Sabes alguna forma d ver las peliculas estas en version original?
A series of discoveries about the "Japanese Warring States Period" around the world have revealed that Europe and Japan during the Age of Exploration were strongly connected and shook history on a global scale.The era of Nobunaga Oda and Hideyoshi TOYOTOMI.European documents from the 16th century were released, and we could see the deep connection between Nobunaga Hideyoshi and the Christian missionaries who came to Japan and Portugal and Spain behind them.It depicts the intentions of each person and the subtle tactics of dealing with each other.The era of Tokugawa Ieyasu's rule of the world.The newly discovered document described the deep connection between Dutch merchants and Ieyasu.The Netherlands wanted silver, then the most important international currency.A fierce battle between the Netherlands and superpower Spain over Japan's silver, which accounts for one-third of the world's output, will begin.Japan, a warring nation that became the front line of the struggle between the two countries for hegemony,
Notice the European armour in the left corner.
Nobunaga was a famous reverse-weeb.
@@Derna1804 haha well put, indeed he was
The world needs a miniseries about Nobunaga.
Yes! ☝️
隆大介が演じた信長公の姿が際立っていた作品で、もう一作違う作品で演じてます。昔のTBSのドラマおんな風林火山で、やはりこの映画と同じく武田家絡み。此方で演じた信長公の姿は冷酷ながら優れた軍略家として描かれ史実に近い姿かな？です。影武者の方では映画作品らしく華やかに演じた姿で見比べると面白いです。
初めて観ましたが、隆大介さんの敦盛は見事ですね。
長興寺所蔵の織田信長公肖像画と同じ装束ですね！
Daisuke Ryu stole the show in his portrayal of Oda.
Indeed. May he rest in peace.
Daimyo Oda Nobunaga June 23, 1534 - June 21, 1582 and main opponent Daimyo Takeda Shingen December 1, 1521 - May 13, 1573
Takeda Shingen is my favorite!
Wonderful scene
Could someone explain more the significance of the song he sang. Is it a tribute to Shingen. That Oda is so impressed that he was deceived by his opponent?
Atsumori was a play about a soldier killed in the Genpei War and who appears as a ghost afterwards. In the film, Shingen has died in combat but lives on in a sense via his doppelganger. The particular verse is about how much of life is an illusion. Nobunaga was a massive fan of the play in real life and would quote it often. It also establishes that while Nobunaga was fascinated with Western culture (look at that room), he was still deeply rooted in Japanese culture.
I'm not too sure about how it fits into this specific film plot (haven't watched it) but it's a direct reference to a popular legend that says that Oda Nobunaga performed this dance in front of his soldiers right before riding to the battle of Okehazama, where he was expected to lose but was ultimately victorious. Nearly every production (theatre, film, videogame, anime, etc.) has Nobunaga performing it.
fun facts about atsumori play, it was depicting the death of Taira Atsumori from Taira clan in genpei war against Minamoto clan.. and surprisingly Oda Nobunaga also claimed as Taira clan's descendant
@@blackmoth2595 why does he recreate it though? Why does he break into dance when he realizes he has been deceived?
@@neverstreamer4875 its gonna be a long explanation, but let's start!
In the movie particularly, Oda Nobunaga tend to perform atsumori not to express how he had been deceived by the kagemusha, on the other hand he expressed admiration as a daimyo and a samurai after he learned about Shingen's unexpected death. He also express his admiration for Shingen's tactical genius on the battle.
To fully understand why Nobunaga express his admiration by performing Atsumori, we can know that Nobunaga love so much about Atsumori play which derives from the Heike no Monogatari (the tale of the heike).
Futhermore, the impermanence of life which similar to a dream and illusions,life for living things only came once and then fade away.
Impermanence and nothingness are the main theme of The Heike no monogatari and also in the Atsumori.
Heike no monogatari tries to imply to its reader that human is simply a sort of small dust in a giant cosmic universe, as stated in the Heike no Monogatari's opening verse :
"驕れる者も久しからず、唯春の夜の夢の如し
The proud do not endure, they are like a dream on a spring night"
"猛き者も遂には滅びぬ、偏に風の前の塵に同じ
The mighty fall at last, they are as dust before the wind."
Moreover, here some atsumori verses that will bring you some ideas about the impermanence and nothingness of achievement in human life compared to the fleeting of time :
"思へばこの世は常の住み家にあらず
In truth, this world is not eternally inhabited"
"草葉に置く白露、水に宿る月よりなほあやし
It is more transient than dewdrops on the leave of grass, or the moon reflected in the water."
"金谷に花を詠じ、榮花は先立つて無常の風に誘はるる
After reciting the poetry of flower at Kanaya, all glory is now left with the wind of impermanence."
"人間五十年、化天のうちを比ぶれば、夢幻の如くなり
Human life lasts only 50 years, Contrast human life with life of Geten (similar to heaven), It is but a very dream and illusion."
"一度生を享け、滅せぬもののあるべきか
Once they are given life from god, there is no such thing don't perish."
---------
To add that, Oda Nobunaga also performed Atsumori before he ambushed Imagawa at Okehazama due to his perception of "human life is just a mere dust before the wind" , and Nobunaga fully understand and wanted to make a meaningful achivement in his life or epic ending by whatever he could do even if he must be perished in the battle, but hey, he won the battle.
That's all that i can get about why Nobunaga tend to love Atsumori, and depicted in this scene.
Love that film, love that scene
Atsumori was Nobunaga's distant ancestor from same Taira clan. His killer was from Minamoto clan, which became Shogun after destroying Taira clan. Shingen was a descendant of Minamoto clan.
So, here, Nobunaga tries to imply that he is going to avenge the tragedy that happened to his Taira ancestor and fate has been reversed for the Takeda, descendants of the Minamotos, with the death of shingen.
this came out at such random note that I was "wtf?...uh okay?" but now I can fully appreciate this song long after my viewing since XD
This is poetry dumbass
Traditional Japanese theatre is an acquired taste for sure
"I got beaten"
Nobunage :Starts randomly signing
me :Confusion
En español mas que cantar era un recital de esta lira.Mas bien se alegra de su muerte pues era un verdadero obstáculo.En parte se entristecen pero mas bien todos se alegran
En una de sus estrofas,menciona que la vida es un sueño,una ilusión.Me hizo acordar a Calderón de la Barca:La vida es sueño y los sueños,sueños son.
While I'm not sure, I think the man reporting Shingen's death to Nobunaga could be Toyotomi Hideyoshi, I say this because he was one of the Oda's most loyal retainers and was already beginning to carve his own path to greatness at the time this film's set.
I often thought at the beginning that Nobunaga was enraged for being played for a fool by Shingen. The person bringing him the news worried about his own life or wondering if Nobunaga was about to blow a blood vessel. (nervous shrug).
この直後の「何？山が動いた？」まで入れて欲しかった。
Where is his historically accurate Black samurai?
I am from India and I like to speak in japaneese
流石、黒澤映画
私の中で信長は、隆大介。
isnt that the mon of Toyotomi clan on his clothes?
It looks like it to me
I believe it was granted by the Emperor to a variety of officials, the Toyotomi clan being the most famous officials to receive it.
According to an article I read, it was awarded to Nobunaga when he made Yoshiaki Shogun. But if the scene is after Shingen's death then isn't it also after he deposed Yoshiaki? Would he have still used it if he had bad blood with the Ashikaga? In any case the most common mon used by the Oda was the Japanese quince and given the fact that the paulownia emblem is more famously known as the Toyotomi mon, it seems a weird choice to make in a movie production even if it isn't technically inaccurate for Nobunaga to have used it.
Of course Oda Nobunaga would refer to himself as "kono Nobunaga"
La vida es sueño y los sueños..sueños son.Calderón de la Barca.Life is dream and the dreams..dreams shall be.
¿Por qué Oda lleva el emblema del clan Hashiba en su ropa?
The kiri(Paulownia leaf) mark is not only for hashiba.
The kiri mark is for the top of japanese government.
@@中嶋-v1v Ok, gracias, pensé que lo correcto sería que Oda Nobunaga llevara un emblema de su propio clan
From what I remember didn't Oda Nobunaga sang this before Okehazama instead of Nagashino?
yes, he was singing atsumori before the okehazama... but he was noted for deeply keen of Atsumori play
Nobody can say how many times Nobunaga sang Atsumori in his lifetime.
Yeah I can relate with that sometimes I quote a line too often when I like it so much.
@@matthews1082 I do recall reading that he performed it right before his death at Honnoji. Though I can't help but think the claim, however popular, tends to swing a little more towards romanticism than historical fact. It just seems too perfect that the two times he's noted as having performed it was Okehazama and Honnoji.
Atsumori song based on Buddha's Impermanence and also like the war cry from the western armies.
Zero dislike.
8 dislikes(
Now UA-cam has solved that problem for you.
Even though Kagemusha and Ran are truly beautiful from a purely visual standpoint, I prefer Kurosawa's earlier work, which I've always thought had more soul and wit to it. That said this particular scene is simply magnificient.
敦盛 幸若舞ですね
Oda (basically): Shingen, that wily old fart, screwed me for THREE YEARS!!!! In the end, everything I did against him amounted to nothing!
ah...ok boys, now let's destroy mt. Hiei...
Oda Nobunaga: That punk, Azai Nagamasa, double crossed me! I shall annihilate him and his clan as well as take over his lands!
Shibata Katsuie: Boss, if Nagamasa dies, can I have Oichi?
Oda Nobunaga: Fine!
Hashiba (Toyotomi) Hideyoshi: Boss, if Nagamasa dies, can I have one of his daughters, what’s her name, um…Chacha?!
Oda Nobunaga: You dirty pervert!
I mean, the Takeda still lost.
yeah but imagine you have been worrying and plotting against old enemy and then you hear he died 3 years ago. i would feel stupid.
@@luckystroke126 The Chinese equivalent would be "a dead Zhuge can scare a living Zhongda". When Sima Yi heard of such ridicule, he laughingly responded, "I can predict the living, but not the dead."
カッコいいけど、
モーホーの要素ゼロな信長だねー。
This is unbearable. You can respect it all you want but aesthetically this is ugly.
not for me, this is beautiful!
この人が日本人ではないと聞いたときはびっくりしたわ