🧡 If you find benefit in my videos, consider supporting the channel by joining us on Patreon and get fun extras like exclusive videos, ad-free audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂 📙 You can find my book here: books2read.com/buddhisthandbook
The quote from the sutras that I like about enlightenment is, “There is, monks, an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned. If, monks, there were no unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, no escape would be discerned from what is born, become, made, conditioned.”
That's kind of a meaningless statement though, because it's not evident that there must exist some escape from what is "born, become, made, conditioned." It kinda sounds like "I want this thing to be true, because my life sucks if it's not, therefore it is true."
@@austinbrown7574 It's either true or not, wishing has nothing to do with it. When they say Buddhism is a come and see religions, this is what it's talking about. Do not have faith, work to have experience.
@@austinbrown7574keep in mind that language is a very poor tool to explain the working of the minds. What Buddha meant was there is an unconditioned process that you can access. Since you have not experienced it, words won’t be very effective.
Stripped of mysticism, it is very simple: that what is "born" is dukkha, and just as it can be born it can also be unborn - not born; just how we can cause dukkha on ourselves, we can also not cause it.
It seems to me that enlightenment for me is a matter of degree. The more that I am able to remove greed, anger and delusion from my life, the more that I consider myself enlightened or awakened. It doesn't matter how someone else judges me.
Doug ❤thank you ! You REALLY unpacked “Awakening “ with fantastic historical context - very good visual aids too ! Doug uses Skillfull means ! Sharing with you delighted to find The Berkeley Buddhist Monestary- with daily English practice on UA-cam Abbot is a banjo playing PhD “regular dude “ and Prof at Berkeley . good Sanga - They are affiliated with “City of 10,000 Buddhas in Eureka - I can make a field trip . Best Steve the stream toe dipper 😂
I started with Transcendental meditation age 16, and I remember asking without any sense of irony : 'Do I get enlightened if I do this ?' The teacher burst out laughing , and said : 'I've been meditating for 40 years, and I'm still not enlightened' I was rather disappointed , but still decided to give it a try ;)
@@reedwill953 No ,I think I didn't make myself clear. He was laughing spontaneously , because my teenage directness surprised him. I rather have someone laughing about offering enlightened, then those who claimi to be enlightened ,while making millions selling books and giving talks to the 'seekers' If I learned something in my 50 years meditating, is that the harder you seek enlightenment ,the less probable it is you find it. '
Dear Doug! In my opinion, The most important knowledge obtained by liberation is that: before liberation, the bottom-to-top processing of the brain is more active and the lower brain centers play greater role in the movement of the will and attention, but in a liberated person, brain's top-to-bottom processing is more active and the higher centers of the brain (or wisdom) plays a higher role in decisions making. So vedana does't affect the will and wisdom is the leader. I have a question too: What is the difference between joy in metta and joy in Jhana? If the jhana is cultivated by meditating on the meta-feeling, when the subject of meditation is the meta-feeling and Ekaggata (one-pointedness) is obtained; in relation to the metta, is the jhanic joy that arises at this stage the same as the meta-joy that is intensified or is it of a different quality?
At the moment you want to become aware, awakened or enlightened, it will happen. It's a process that you don't control, or initiate, you simply participate when you're ready. If you're happy where you are then don't move.
Thanks for this. Again, when we say "knowledge of..." this and that, we do not simply mean what can be learned in a book or video, but a deep kind of intuitive grasping such that it is known 'through and through' and has become a natural part of our being and how we reactively interact with reality.
"Ignorance" should not be glossed over. The question is "ignorance of what?" Ignorance of the true nature of reality, which is not, what it seems to be to us.
My crazy thoughts.. the start point is to learn and understand the 5 aggregates. There might be something about Vijnana and vipassana. There are “vijnana” element (the 6 elements ) and “vijnana” aggregate ( the 5 aggregates). Vipassana might be the practice to go deep to the core. 🤔
Thank You for this video. You haven't mentioned specifically any Abhidharma literature or commentary to it. Have those texts elaborated further on the notion of awakening/enlightenment?
Good question, my focus is rather on the early (sutta) texts rather than the later abhidhamma/abhidharma. It would perhaps be topic for another video, though would take a good deal of research ...!
I can't say I have personal experience with the complete drying up of the underlying tendencies to greed, hatred, and delusion. In my experience however practice does lessen these tendencies.
@@DougsDharma thank for replying. I have the same experience. I know in my meditations how to live in the present moment, feel humble and grateful, detach from many concepts and mental formations. That has been a wealth of wisdom, grounding, and profound regard of nature. It is, as I see it, as close as I can get to awakening. Thanks sir I hope we meet some day. I’m much less a theorist than you though, I think I followed the Buddhist path and it has “enlightened “ me
If there was the possibility of rebirth or reincarnation, I’d want it to happen. Life is great, even with all problems we face. So in a way I don’t want to achieve enlightenment if that means no more rebirths. On the other hand, if I understand well, once enlightened, we gain a knowledge that allows us leave all that behind. Does that make sense? I think Buddhist in general view rebirth as an evil, even if they’re not enlightened, is that right? That’s a concept I still struggle to grasp.
As a secular practitioner, I leave aside questions of rebirth as not central to my practice. That said, on the traditional understanding if you want to be reborn, you will be. It's the craving that makes it happen. Giving up craving means in part giving up the craving for rebirth.
Sir there is not enlightenment but knowing ultimate truth I think and there was not only 1 buddha but 27 other Buddha (in ancient india) sakyamuni buddha was 28th buddha there were buddha Sanskriti
I think buddha said belief as birth because everyone have there mind and body nothing more than that and Buddhism focuses on mind and that's why buddha called belief as birth that's why when buddha get his ultimate truth no one can Change his beliefs because now hi get truth but common people easily changes their beliefs because they don't knows truth but from time to time what buddha said totally changed
Emptiness is used as synonymous with anatta in the EBTs. They talk about the not self of the ayatana, sense consciousnesses, feelings and graspings. Thats the same as emptiness, nonduality in Mahayana. If the sende perceptions and their referents are non self, all that remains is nondual shunya.
I think the topic is interesting, but, from a secular perspective it's a mere historical kind of debate. Realistic psychology demands of us that we let go of the idea of enlightenment and the demonizing of normal human impulses.
Enlightenment is waking up ( "Buddha" means awake as in not sleeping, doesn't it). On waking up we realize that we've been living in a dream, we've mistaken dreams and fantasy for reality; the dreams, sometimes pleasant, sometimes not, and sometimes outright nightmares, but dreams nevertheless . Seeing this and seeing all the consequences of this insight - that's enlightenment.
I did a couple of earlier videos on what “Buddha” means. See for example: What Does "Buddha" Mean? A Recent Article May Change Your Mind ua-cam.com/video/c_R2Y2P1sjI/v-deo.html
@@DougsDharma any Slav can tell you what "BUDdha" means. "Awake" in Czech: proBUDit Polish: oBUDzony Serbian: BUDan Macedonian: BUDen Slovenian: BUDen Bulgarian: BUDen Russian: BODrstvuyushchiy
Well according to both the Buddhist and Non-Buddhist spiritual teachings I have gone through, enlightenment is just fully grasping how plain and simple reality is. In other words, seeing that the ordinary itself is extraordinary but we are unable to realize this since we kinda cage ourselves in a metaphorical or psycho-spiritual cage that limits our experience of the world as it is
I wonder how the enlightenment differs between people, I have heard of different clairvoyant experiences. Example, some see spirits once in while and others experience the unseen realm of the elementals beginning their alchemical understandings.
Doug in your opinion if Buddha was alive today how would him deal with the political situation in Ukraine, Israel and the possibility of a new world conflict?
The Buddha would most likely have been relentlessly in favor of peace, and against violence. How in particular he might approach it however is impossible to say for sure.
@@DougsDharma I remember when I read the book of Thich Nhat Hanh about Buddha's life. There were two Indian kings that wanted to start a war against each other and the Buddha became a diplomat. He solved the situation. The war never started.
I wouldn't say so. The formless attainments (they were not called "jhanas" in early Buddhism) are without perception of form, but dualism is a metaphysical claim that might or might not be true in that circumstance. See also my earlier video: ua-cam.com/video/WlAVNOiNj8g/v-deo.html
You are quite right there is no fixed self. However I tend to agree with Jordan Peterson that there are the authentic views that are compatible with our conscience. You could call that the authentic transient 'self' - passing views and attitudes that make us comfortable in our own skin and help us respond appropriatly if we participate in the moment. We all have our filters of compatability with ideas that arise, and discard ideas that are incompatible. That is what the four great efforts are all about.
@@DougsDharma I would also appreciate this Doug. You spoke recently about failure, about not becoming a professor. It may not be formal, but I think you've succeeded in becoming a professor of Buddhism. I would like to meet the person with more complete objective knowledge than yourself.
''My freedom is unshakeable; this is my last rebirth; now there are no more future lives''. This was his polite way of saying that intelligent people don't believe in reincarnation.
In my humble opinion, there's no such thing as Buddha enlightenment. What there is is Buddhist awakening. The very word Buddha is about awakening, not about enlightenment. It's a misnomer with serious consequences.
Yes I mentioned this controversy over how to translate "bodhi". I made two videos on the subject awhile back. The first one is here: ua-cam.com/video/c_R2Y2P1sjI/v-deo.html , the second is here: ua-cam.com/video/14ghdkSddK8/v-deo.html .
What do you think of Hindu sages who claim they are enlightened, like Yogananda or Ramakrishna, or modern nonduality teachers who also claim the same like Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle etc? Do you think they have attained the same enlightenment as what the Buddha referred to?
Nobody becomes enlightened. Only when you disappear, enlightenment is there. If anyone proclaims "I am enlightened" they are deluded by the notion of a self "I", by the notion of being "am" and by the notion of having obtained something.
So, what is the value in achieving awakening/enlightenment if there is on one to be enlightened? Why go through all the hassle of explaining and following the "path"? Who is the one explaining and who is listening?
@@neomagnon To dispel ignorance and the self-centered view which is the root of all evil and suffering. To live without walls of the mind and thus without fears. To see through delusions and finally nirvana. You ask. That's your mind. I answer. That's my mind. If I had no mind, how could I answer? If you had no mind, how could you ask? That which asks is your mind. This mind is the Buddha.
🧡 If you find benefit in my videos, consider supporting the channel by joining us on Patreon and get fun extras like exclusive videos, ad-free audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂
📙 You can find my book here: books2read.com/buddhisthandbook
The word SUNNA/SUNYA (zero) existed in early Suttas.
Although I can't do that I can like and watch every video.
The quote from the sutras that I like about enlightenment is, “There is, monks, an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned. If, monks, there were no unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, no escape would be discerned from what is born, become, made, conditioned.”
Yes, I did a video on that passage: ua-cam.com/video/-Wz3N5IAGDM/v-deo.html
That's kind of a meaningless statement though, because it's not evident that there must exist some escape from what is "born, become, made, conditioned." It kinda sounds like "I want this thing to be true, because my life sucks if it's not, therefore it is true."
@@austinbrown7574 It's either true or not, wishing has nothing to do with it. When they say Buddhism is a come and see religions, this is what it's talking about. Do not have faith, work to have experience.
@@austinbrown7574keep in mind that language is a very poor tool to explain the working of the minds. What Buddha meant was there is an unconditioned process that you can access. Since you have not experienced it, words won’t be very effective.
Stripped of mysticism, it is very simple: that what is "born" is dukkha, and just as it can be born it can also be unborn - not born; just how we can cause dukkha on ourselves, we can also not cause it.
It seems to me that enlightenment for me is a matter of degree. The more that I am able to remove greed, anger and delusion from my life, the more that I consider myself enlightened or awakened. It doesn't matter how someone else judges me.
Yes, I think that's how it's felt while we are practicing.
It’s a right path to enlightenment
It sounds like a very healthy approach too it, specially when we accept that learning is gradual
Doug ❤thank you ! You REALLY unpacked “Awakening “ with fantastic historical context - very good visual aids too !
Doug uses Skillfull means !
Sharing with you delighted to find The Berkeley Buddhist Monestary- with daily English practice on UA-cam
Abbot is a banjo playing PhD “regular dude “ and Prof at Berkeley . good Sanga - They are affiliated with “City of 10,000 Buddhas in Eureka - I can make a field trip .
Best Steve the stream toe dipper 😂
Great, thanks for your comment Steve. 🙏
I started with Transcendental meditation age 16, and I remember asking without any sense of irony : 'Do I get enlightened if I do this ?'
The teacher burst out laughing , and said : 'I've been meditating for 40 years, and I'm still not enlightened'
I was rather disappointed , but still decided to give it a try ;)
Personally I'd find a better teacher, many are awake. Jack Kornfield for example
@@DS-rd9qn Says who .. Jack Kornfield ?
🙏😊
@@reedwill953 No ,I think I didn't make myself clear. He was laughing spontaneously , because my teenage directness surprised him.
I rather have someone laughing about offering enlightened, then those who claimi to be enlightened ,while making millions selling books and giving talks to the 'seekers'
If I learned something in my 50 years meditating, is that the harder you seek enlightenment ,the less probable it is you find it. '
At least the teacher is honest. It is rare and worth appreciating.
Dear Doug! In my opinion, The most important knowledge obtained by liberation is that: before liberation, the bottom-to-top processing of the brain is more active and the lower brain centers play greater role in the movement of the will and attention, but in a liberated person, brain's top-to-bottom processing is more active and the higher centers of the brain (or wisdom) plays a higher role in decisions making. So vedana does't affect the will and wisdom is the leader.
I have a question too: What is the difference between joy in metta and joy in Jhana? If the jhana is cultivated by meditating on the meta-feeling, when the subject of meditation is the meta-feeling and Ekaggata (one-pointedness) is obtained; in relation to the metta, is the jhanic joy that arises at this stage the same as the meta-joy that is intensified or is it of a different quality?
I don't think i will ever reach enlightenment in Buddhist terms, i think its too difficult. But I'm happy that some people do
At the moment you want to become aware, awakened or enlightened, it will happen.
It's a process that you don't control, or initiate, you simply participate when you're ready.
If you're happy where you are then don't move.
Love and peace from Germany! ❤️🐱🙏
🙏🐈
Thanks for this. Again, when we say "knowledge of..." this and that, we do not simply mean what can be learned in a book or video, but a deep kind of intuitive grasping such that it is known 'through and through' and has become a natural part of our being and how we reactively interact with reality.
Yes, for the Buddha true knowledge was of this sort.
"Ignorance" should not be glossed over. The question is "ignorance of what?" Ignorance of the true nature of reality, which is not, what it seems to be to us.
Really appreciate you taken this talk beyond what is found in early Buddhism to include much later and still prevalent ideas.
🙏😊
PS ❤best EVER explanation of “sensuality = sense desire “ and what that means - excellent excellent Shariputra !
My crazy thoughts.. the start point is to learn and understand the 5 aggregates. There might be something about Vijnana and vipassana. There are “vijnana” element (the 6 elements ) and “vijnana” aggregate ( the 5 aggregates). Vipassana might be the practice to go deep to the core. 🤔
Sadhu sadhu sadhu
As Rumi once famously said, we are all sort of searching in the branches for what can only be found in the roots.
Thank You for this video. You haven't mentioned specifically any Abhidharma literature or commentary to it. Have those texts elaborated further on the notion of awakening/enlightenment?
Good question, my focus is rather on the early (sutta) texts rather than the later abhidhamma/abhidharma. It would perhaps be topic for another video, though would take a good deal of research ...!
This is one of the best discussions on the meaning of enlightenment in Buddhism that I’ve heard. Thank you for sharing it.
Doug thanks again for another beautiful video. What is your personal experience with enlightenment?
I can't say I have personal experience with the complete drying up of the underlying tendencies to greed, hatred, and delusion. In my experience however practice does lessen these tendencies.
@@DougsDharma thank for replying. I have the same experience. I know in my meditations how to live in the present moment, feel humble and grateful, detach from many concepts and mental formations. That has been a wealth of wisdom, grounding, and profound regard of nature. It is, as I see it, as close as I can get to awakening. Thanks sir I hope we meet some day. I’m much less a theorist than you though, I think I followed the Buddhist path and it has “enlightened “ me
If there was the possibility of rebirth or reincarnation, I’d want it to happen. Life is great, even with all problems we face. So in a way I don’t want to achieve enlightenment if that means no more rebirths. On the other hand, if I understand well, once enlightened, we gain a knowledge that allows us leave all that behind. Does that make sense? I think Buddhist in general view rebirth as an evil, even if they’re not enlightened, is that right? That’s a concept I still struggle to grasp.
As a secular practitioner, I leave aside questions of rebirth as not central to my practice. That said, on the traditional understanding if you want to be reborn, you will be. It's the craving that makes it happen. Giving up craving means in part giving up the craving for rebirth.
Sir there is not enlightenment but knowing ultimate truth I think and there was not only 1 buddha but 27 other Buddha (in ancient india) sakyamuni buddha was 28th buddha there were buddha Sanskriti
So Buddhist enlightenment is all about knowing there's nothing after death 💀??
I think buddha said belief as birth because everyone have there mind and body nothing more than that and Buddhism focuses on mind and that's why buddha called belief as birth that's why when buddha get his ultimate truth no one can Change his beliefs because now hi get truth but common people easily changes their beliefs because they don't knows truth but from time to time what buddha said totally changed
Emptiness is used as synonymous with anatta in the EBTs. They talk about the not self of the ayatana, sense consciousnesses, feelings and graspings. Thats the same as emptiness, nonduality in Mahayana. If the sende perceptions and their referents are non self, all that remains is nondual shunya.
Great video! With peace from Italy ☸️🙏
I experienced satori and all I got was this stupid shirt
They gave you a shirt?? 🥳🤪
Awakening is simply the quenching of Dukkha. 🙏🏼
Yes I think that's a good way to approach it.
What's the speed of quiet?
Where is counterspace?
When is eternity?
The Zen master will see you now.
😄
🙏
I think the topic is interesting, but, from a secular perspective it's a mere historical kind of debate. Realistic psychology demands of us that we let go of the idea of enlightenment and the demonizing of normal human impulses.
The point of practice is to minimize suffering.
Sadhu sadhu sadhu
Thank you!
🙏😊
Sir I have a question is this world joy or suffering is this world good or bad what did Buddha said about this
The world is what we make of it. Suffering is bad for the person who suffers.
hi, thanks for this video. did you reach enlightenment yet?
Oh gosh no.
Enlightenment is waking up ( "Buddha" means awake as in not sleeping, doesn't it).
On waking up we realize that we've been living in a dream, we've mistaken dreams and fantasy for reality; the dreams, sometimes pleasant, sometimes not, and sometimes outright nightmares, but dreams nevertheless . Seeing this and seeing all the consequences of this insight - that's enlightenment.
I did a couple of earlier videos on what “Buddha” means. See for example: What Does "Buddha" Mean? A Recent Article May Change Your Mind
ua-cam.com/video/c_R2Y2P1sjI/v-deo.html
@@DougsDharma any Slav can tell you what "BUDdha" means.
"Awake" in
Czech: proBUDit
Polish: oBUDzony
Serbian: BUDan
Macedonian: BUDen
Slovenian: BUDen
Bulgarian: BUDen
Russian: BODrstvuyushchiy
Well according to both the Buddhist and Non-Buddhist spiritual teachings I have gone through, enlightenment is just fully grasping how plain and simple reality is. In other words, seeing that the ordinary itself is extraordinary but we are unable to realize this since we kinda cage ourselves in a metaphorical or psycho-spiritual cage that limits our experience of the world as it is
Yes, seeing things as they are. But there must be internal changes associated with this seeing, otherwise it isn't really enlightenment.
@@DougsDharma True
I wonder how the enlightenment differs between people, I have heard of different clairvoyant experiences. Example, some see spirits once in while and others experience the unseen realm of the elementals beginning their alchemical understandings.
Doug in your opinion if Buddha was alive today how would him deal with the political situation in Ukraine, Israel and the possibility of a new world conflict?
The Buddha would most likely have been relentlessly in favor of peace, and against violence. How in particular he might approach it however is impossible to say for sure.
@@DougsDharma I remember when I read the book of Thich Nhat Hanh about Buddha's life. There were two Indian kings that wanted to start a war against each other and the Buddha became a diplomat. He solved the situation. The war never started.
@@rafaelecattonar1506 True, he tried to solve the problem without warfare. That won't always be possible.
Sir you have progressed a lot in spiritual path.
Doug, I have a question unrelated to this video. Does the presence of the arupa jhanas validate mind-body dualism? Thank you kindly.
I wouldn't say so. The formless attainments (they were not called "jhanas" in early Buddhism) are without perception of form, but dualism is a metaphysical claim that might or might not be true in that circumstance. See also my earlier video: ua-cam.com/video/WlAVNOiNj8g/v-deo.html
Great talk! Great channel!
Thank you kindly!
You are quite right there is no fixed self. However I tend to agree with Jordan Peterson that there are the authentic views that are compatible with our conscience. You could call that the authentic transient 'self' - passing views and attitudes that make us comfortable in our own skin and help us respond appropriatly if we participate in the moment. We all have our filters of compatability with ideas that arise, and discard ideas that are incompatible. That is what the four great efforts are all about.
Can you do a video on Dzogchen?
That's a much later practice. I may do a video on it eventually, but need to find good historical research.
@@DougsDharma I would also appreciate this Doug. You spoke recently about failure, about not becoming a professor. It may not be formal, but I think you've succeeded in becoming a professor of Buddhism. I would like to meet the person with more complete objective knowledge than yourself.
''My freedom is unshakeable; this is my last rebirth; now there are no more future lives''. This was his polite way of saying that intelligent people don't believe in reincarnation.
Is the thumb nail an orange rind that was converted into a candle?
I believe so!
@@DougsDharma Ooo very cool! Maybe I'll try to make one.
tryadhvavyavasthitah sarvabuddhah prajnaparamitam asrityanuttaram samyaksambodhim abhisambuddhah
In my humble opinion, there's no such thing as Buddha enlightenment. What there is is Buddhist awakening. The very word Buddha is about awakening, not about enlightenment. It's a misnomer with serious consequences.
Yes I mentioned this controversy over how to translate "bodhi". I made two videos on the subject awhile back. The first one is here: ua-cam.com/video/c_R2Y2P1sjI/v-deo.html , the second is here: ua-cam.com/video/14ghdkSddK8/v-deo.html .
What do you think of Hindu sages who claim they are enlightened, like Yogananda or Ramakrishna, or modern nonduality teachers who also claim the same like Rupert Spira, Eckhart Tolle etc? Do you think they have attained the same enlightenment as what the Buddha referred to?
Nobody becomes enlightened. Only when you disappear, enlightenment is there.
If anyone proclaims "I am enlightened" they are deluded by the notion of a self "I", by the notion of being "am" and by the notion of having obtained something.
So, what is the value in achieving awakening/enlightenment if there is on one to be enlightened? Why go through all the hassle of explaining and following the "path"? Who is the one explaining and who is listening?
Give and it shall be given unto you........@@neomagnon
Who knows ? There is no Enlight-meter, so it's all up for grabs.
@@neomagnon To dispel ignorance and the self-centered view which is the root of all evil and suffering. To live without walls of the mind and thus without fears. To see through delusions and finally nirvana.
You ask. That's your mind. I answer. That's my mind. If I had no mind, how could I answer? If you had no mind, how could you ask? That which asks is your mind. This mind is the Buddha.