Gay bars in New York used to turn off music, and turn on TV so all the cruisers could watch The Golden Girls. I LOVE BETTY WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm going to add "Six Feet Under." I think it was the first show that had an open gay character the entire show who was with his partner/husband until the show ended. The show treated them like a couple who had their ups and downs, but how a gay couple would handle them.
You don’t recognise just how revolutionary ‘Queer as Folk’ ( original British version) was when it first appeared. Advertisers withdrew adverts, but the channel persisted. Will and Grace was a bland travesty in that neither of the gay characters ever actually had sex, so as not to offend middle America
The greatest thing about both QAF and Dante's Cove was the characters passionately kissed and had on-screen (simulated) intercourse. There was no fading to flowers when kissing or the two guys walking in a room and then closing the door only to see them next having coffee in the morning. Whereas W&G were really for straights, QAF was for the gays.
Well, QAF (at least the US version--can't speak to the UK version) aired on Showtime so it was free to pretty much do whatever it liked when it came to not just on-screen sex and nudity but also language. The show was actually syndicated (very briefly) for "mainstream" television and it was so badly butchered (having to remove all the stuff that people watched it for) that the syndication was quickly pulled. As for Dante's Cove (and The Lair as well), the show NEVER aired on a mainstream TV network-it only aired on the LGBTQ premium pay-channel (for the vast majority of cable subscribers) here! So, much like QAF, the show didn't have to deal with network censors or outraged viewers because the only people who had access to the series basically had to pay for the series with an extra fee for access (the network is still available on my cable provider for an extra $7 a month to my regular bill and, given the very minimal amount of content the network provides, $7 is way too much; some of the programming is available to rent on a pay-per-view basis but a cost of between $2 and $5 for a single 45-50 minute episode is absurd). You might consider that a lot of mainstream TV programs featuring straight characters never show "on-screen (simulated) intercourse" or any kind of nudity so that argument is completely meaningless. (And the rare times when sex is supposed to be happening on these shows with hetero couples, they're usually so wrapped up in sheets that it's impossible to believe there's any "real" action going on. Not to mention the silliness of post-coital shots where the male actor's bare chest is almost always fully exposed but the female actor's got the sheets pulled up almost to her throat--usually to hide the sports bra or other top she's actually wearing; if her shoulders are actually bared, then it means she's wearing some kind of strapless top.)
@@josephwest124 I must not have been clear on one of my bigger points. "Melrose Place" had a regular gay character for years. This was his only "kiss" ua-cam.com/video/PdiS63nIYko/v-deo.html. Now compare that to this ua-cam.com/video/iliuDqvCVjA/v-deo.html on the same show that could happen twice in the same episode for straights, but not in the entire history of the show for gays. You are also correct that the straights would be in bed the next morning covered, but you still got the idea they had sex and stayed the night.
I don't remember the show Brothers, then I looked it up. It was on Showtime from 1984 to 1989. We didn't have cable at the time so that's why i never heard of it. A couple of shows you could have included was "Soap" (1977-1981) for the Character Jodie Dallas played by Billy Crystal. The other one you had mentioned was "Love, Sidney" (1981-1983)
@@michaeladkins6 Kind of like the gay son on 'Dynasty'. In those days, it was all too common (well, it still is) to suppose that a man is gay because He Just Hasn't Met The Right Woman.
@@majkusIt’s more like society presuming a man is gay because he’s not married by 30 and the man having to either come out or say that he just hasn’t met the right woman. The “haven’t met the right woman” is still a knee-jerk reaction today (in my 60s) when being questioned as to why I never married by someone with whom I’m not comfortable sharing my sexuality.
This is my favorite episode you've ever done!! I absolutely loved it and favorited it! 🌈 The only thing I'd add is Ryan Phillippe played a gay teenager on the US soap opera One Life To Live in 1992, which was very ahead if its time. My favorite Golden Girls gay moment was when they were telling Blanche somebody was a Lesbian and Blanche said, "well isn't Danny Thomas one?" to which Dorothy screamed, "not Lebanese, Blanche! LESBIAN!" 😂
I have always thought that the original Queer as folk (UK) was and still is superior - the English original was more gritty -less plastic and fake than the sanitised American effort.
I definitely agree. The young blond guy in the UK was was hot, the US one not so much. I also liked the leads in the UK version. The one good thing the US version did was keep one of the supporting characters alive, that died having sex with a stranger, who deserted him in the UK one. Certainly a thought provoking episode, but it was good in the US version to see how his life progressed.
Thanks for jogging my memory with some great TV journeys. IMHO, tho, "Queer As Folk" was one of the best-written TV series gay or straight! I still watch all five seasons on DVD. My next favorite would be "Brothers"...I never missed an episode. So, thanks again for the post.
The real gay interest for me in My So-called Life wasn't so much Ricky, but the math teacher! Here was a normal, everyday guy with a 9-5 job and a husband (!) who wasn't presented as a type of any kind which was refreshing to see.
All in the Family, Edith's best friend is Divine who appeared on multiple episodes. It was the first appearance of a drag queen on network tv. Divine had her own tragic story arc that we got to experience through Edith's eyes. It was heart breaking. Then "there is Maude" with a regular returning gay character as well as a half season (10 episode) story arc of their gay neighbor. Gay presence started as small little nibbles until we get to the 00s. Noah's arc was breakthrough for representing the black queer community. "An early frost" was made for tv movie that dealt with AIDS under the Reagan dictatorship. In sci-fi we wont get gay hints until the Next Generation. Gene Rodenberry attempted to have a same sex couple on the show, but the censor banned that story line.
Although “Brothers” did portray a supportive family member, the GBF did indeed foster the same swishy gay stereotype from years past. I honestly thought that’s what my life was going to be. From a first-hand perspective, it wasn’t positive. In retrospect, “Will & Grace” had Jack and that stereotype is definitely present in the gay community…
I loved this Brothers, especially Swish. He reminded me of a guy I had worked with but who wasn't gay. He was just from Mississippi. You had to be there.
@@richardw3470 I’d probably find the character funny if I were to watch it now but in those days with no internet, no examples, smallish city, no discussion in sex ed, no support groups, no one would even SAY “gay”, no exposure to other places, mental health still a taboo, no knowledge about anything…it did not make me feel good.
My favorites are Dante's Cove and The Lair. Because somehow they fulfilled my fantasy of seeing a somewhat serious series production of a soft porn 😅. Beautiful masculine actors (yes I know there's a lot of debate around it), on-screen intimacy, nudity, etc. They did go from my kind of camp to something bad for my taste. I guess that's the life cycle of any TV show. Maybe that's why Eating Out and The Brotherhood Movie Franchises appealed to me too. First time I hear of Brothers. Seems like type I'd watch based on its description here. Noah's Arc, also hearing for the first time. Seems appealing to me too.
I'm not sure of the difference between a "gay show" and a show with gay characters in it. I very much enjoyed watching the TV show "Brothers and Sisters" with Sally Fields as the matriarch of a dynamic family. It featured a gay son who was a lawyer -- completely accepted by his family -- who had his own relationship challenges but ultimately ended up with a husband.
You’re SO right about the gay lawyer son on “Brothers and SIsters”, about his ending up with a husband: and not just any husband. A very HOT husband. Actor Luke MacFane. I’ve also seen him in “Single All the Way”.
I’d never question your work. But I wonder if you’ve ever seen the ABC-TV comedy, Soap. It featured Billy Crystal as Jodie Dallas. He worked in TV and dated a closeted NFL quarterback. There were a lot of well-known actors on the show, most notably Robert Guillaume, whose character was spun off into the TV show “Benson.” There is some controversy about whether Jodie is a positive or negative character, but he was definitely groundbreaking in many ways.
Yes on Will a& Grace. Although not a specifically queer show I believe Shameless deserves an honorable mention. Perhaps another list “ queer shows that were not queer shows”. Golden Girls should be on this list. The amount of queer characters and plots is insane. They were not one offs. They were major plots. They have some of the best coming out scenes. The show has some of the most diverse queer characters and storylines of any show, including most queer shows.
I was obsessed with gay erotic shows to watch early on, it was “Dante’s Cove” when I discovered Toby and Kevin’s steamy romance. “Glee” I wanted to like, cuz of their musicals, but too much awkward dramas. “Queer as Folk” was another thing I discovered after “Dante’s Cove”
Even though it only lasted 7 episodes I would include "Some Of My Best Friends" 2001 which was a TV sitcom version of the movie: "Kiss Me, Guido". It starred Jason Bateman, Danny Nucci and Alec Mapa.
Could have included Canadian TV series Degrassi. Throughout its iterations there were numerous gay lead or recurrent gay characters. You may remember that Drake starred in Degrassi for 5 seasons before he was known as Drake.
I LOVED Brothers and wish I could find a copy of this series that did not have the annoying speaker whine. But sadly Showtime has never made it available. One thing I liked about Philip Charles MacKenzie's character of Donald Maltby is that he asked his gay theater friends to help him create the character and mannerisms. So while he had an effeminate ,swishy, flirty personae he would drop that barrier when he became very serious. Which I have to be honest is something I noticed a few of my gay friends do as well.
Will and Grace scores points for the basic premise, but loses many points for seemingly portraying New York as having no other gay men in it but the leads. They didn't seriously date, go to bars or other gay social activities, didn't march in a Pride parade, even off screen… They were 'gay' only enough to set up clever punchlines.
Yes, that also struck me as being unrealistic. I'm all for "willing suspension of disbelief", but are we really supposed to believe that a man as handsome, intelligent and charming as Will Truman... a lawyer, in NYC, with THAT apartment, would be SINGLE?!? Maybe for about 15 minutes!
We didn't have cable growing up, so my first real experience seeing homosexuality and queerness portrayed on TV was when PBS had the guts to air "Tales of the City." Even then, I had to watch it in secret with my own TV that I had saved up to buy with help from my parents as a Christmas gift. However, because conservative lawmakers threw such a hissy fit over it and worked to defund PBS, they didn't finish the series. Thankfully, Showtime picked it up and finished it just before they brought us QAF. Also, right before that happened, my Dad had decided to get Dish satellite and Showtime, so I was able to see them both. Coincidentally, I also came out at that time, so there is a lot of significance attached to both those series for me.
I actually saw a little of "The Corner Bar," which was actually a summer replacement series that aired its handful of episodes during two successive summers. Second season there was an almost entire change in cast, but Ron Carey was now in as a character who (I'm guessing from the title sequence) was probably supposed to be Gay. And thanks for mentioning "Brothers." My whole family loved that show!
The UK QAF was a really amazing show--I watched the first series at the Austin gay film fest, back in the day, with a sold-out crowd for every episode--we were floored that a show like that--and if you've seen it all I can say is "that first encounter between Stuart and Nathan--holy cow!! Fan me!!"--was on TV.
It's interesting that when the first episode was broadcast in 1999 the outrage in the tabloid newspapers was about the portrayal of rimming. I don't think any of them complained that Nathan was supposed to be 15 while Stuart was nearing 30. I think that nowadays the big issue would be Nathan's age.
@@johnkilcullen Oh yes, to both comments: I'm pretty certain I'd never seen rimming in a TV show, and probably never even seen it in a mainstream movie at the point, either. It was Just Not Done. And there is NO way Nathan would be depicted as a 15-yo these days, at least not in an American show. And even if he was supposed to 17 or 18 he'd be played by an actor in his 20s.
"Gay people love THE GOLDEN GIRLS." Who DOESN'T love THE GOLDEN GIRLS. At the homeless shelter I was at, every Thursday night EVERYBODY would watch the show on streaming, and they were mostly all old straight guys. But, Betty, Bea, Rue, and Estelle were a powerhouse that no one could resist. Their popularity was galaxy wide. And, I had completely forgotten about BROTHERS. That was another show that had worldwide appeal across ALL audiences. Why, because it was well written and acted. I will admit, I couldn't get into WILL AND GRACE. But as for QUEER AS FOLK, while it and all the characters were great, it was Debbie that was my favorite character. Sharon Glass stole that show, and never gave it back. One thing that all these queer shows have in common, is they were created by people who were not afraid to create something gay, and were successful because they came up with new and original characters, that felt like real people that EVERYONE could relate to, gay, straight, you name it. You didn't like them because of their orientation. You loved them because they were people who you could really relate to. And, let's not forget the first mainstream queer horror film came out in the mid 80's, A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 2. The writers finally admitted that the not so subtle gay subtext of the main character Jesse was intentional. And as for GLEE, besides the fact that I love musicals, I thought it was a great show for ALL it's storylines. I am still waiting for that GLEE/THE WALKING DEAD crossover episode, that we'll sadly probably never get. All the titles you mentioned show that people can create original queer content that appeals to more than just the community, so, they need to stop taking over non LGBTQ and turning them into the new "rainbow revue", and then getting mad at the fans who they are crapping on because they don't want to watch shows or movies that have been taken over, and then blast them for being phobic. It's not phobia, it the fact that our beloved shows have been taken over and a characters changed over night. Leave our shows alone, and go back to creating original shows with original characters. This list proves it can be done successfully, with a large crossover audience. Heck, back in the 90's, whenever I would go to see a new queer film at the local art house cinema, I had a couple of straight friends that would always come with, and they liked the movies too, because they didn't feel like stereotypes, they felt like real people. The only time there was a minor issue was when one of the movies had some DOCTOR WHO references in it that made my inner whovian nerd jump for joy, but they didn't get. Fortunately, I had enough WHO stories on VHS that I was able to get them hooked into that as well. The only queer movie I took friends to that wasn't received too well by them, or me for that matter, was BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN. They felt the same way I did about it. That it was two depressing hours of two people constantly whining about why they couldn't be together. However, they all had the same appreciation for the beautiful locations and scenery that I did, and the stellar acting. Two newer queer TV series that I highly recommend are, of course HEARTSTOPPER on Netflix. And, SINGLE, OUT that you can watch on HERE TV. An Australian series that has all the charm you can expect from a show made down under. In my opinion, the UK and Australia seem to be the best at making queer films and series. And SINGLE, OUT has one of the best, and funniest coming out scenes ever shown. I will say this, filmmakers nerd to really step up their game when it comes to queer horror movies. Besides NIGHTMARE 2, the only other one I know of is the slasher flick HELLBENT. Granted, it's just a typical slasher flick, not unlike any other slasher flick made from the 80's through to the 00's, but it takes place in the community, and, it has all gay characters. Plus, it doesn't skimp on the red stuff. Sorry for the rant. I now return you to your regularly scheduled comment thread.
Try to catch “Sirens”, a comedy about 3 EMT guys, one Out and Proud gay. Aired 2014-15 on USA cable television network. I think it’s available on UA-cam.
Soap should have been mentioned, at least in passing like Love, Sidney. One I don’t see mentioned here is SouthLand. It featured Michael Cudlitz as Sgt. John Cooper, a semi-closeted divorced training officer on the LAPD. His boot, Ben McKenzie, figures him out early on, and a later season has him working with recovering officer Lucy Liu, who says the word is she “wouldn’t have trouble” with him, insinuating other officers know he’s gay. Either that, or Dewey (C.Thomas Howell) talks too much. Cudlitz took home several GLAAD Awards for his role, before tackling other roles in Dark Tourist and TWD, where he was playing up the on screen chemistry when off screen with Josh McDermitt as a fanship, the pair teasing fans with random intimate moments. Several behind the scenes TWD clips show him kissing other cast members, male and female. Mike has a wife and kids at home, but he’s at least open minded enough to make out with some cast mates.
Dante’s Cove was so titillating, but that acting… oh my God. Made it barely watchable. Noah’s Arc however had no redeeming qualities at all. My So Called Life was a flawless masterpiece.
It's a bit unfair to only say that the Channel 4 Queer as Folk got mixed reviews, and leave it at that. From memory it got generally sensational reviews - especially in the first season - sprinkled with Blistering Outrage Reviews from the still largely homophobic and conservative British press. It broke barriers in terms of bringing realistic gay characters to the nation's tut-tutting living rooms. Missing from the list - Six Feet Under.
Number 96 was the first television program anywhere in the world to feature a full diverse range of LGBTQ characters as regulars, although many historians and scholars are unaware of this, because the show's controversial content meant it was unable to be screened outside of Australia. Even today, the show could not be screened on American network TV.[1][4] There had been LGBTQ characters in programs before but these were primarily guest characters or fleeting mentions.
Just to add context to My So-Called Life. It broke barriers by having a gay character in the '90s played by a gay actor (although I don't believe Wilson was openly gay to the public at the time) and enacting storylines that were based on his own life. And ABC wanted to renew the show, even though it didn't have huge ratings, but Claire Danes was overwhelmed by the demands of the show and didn't want to continue with the series (understandable, since she was 14/15 at the time and that show could be pretty damn intense with a ridiculously hard shooting schedule). The show went on to be a hit when MTV started airing it, even though there were only 19 episodes in total. It also happens to be one of the first shows I bought when it was finally released on DVD. And I'm a fan of Buffalo Tom's music after hearing it on the show.
For years I've heard criticism of Will & Grace not being gay enough, sometimes you can do more to help a cause by not showing everything, W&G did this and we should applaud them for this, think what happened to Ellen's sitcom, it was great, but once she came out, that's all it was about, and it became boring.
Australian TV had Number 96 which aired from 13 March 1972 to 11 August 1977 And The Box which aired from which aired from 11 February 1974 to 11 October 1977. The Secret Life Of Us from 16 July 2001 to 28 December 2005 All of which aired on the 10 [Ten] Network And A Place To Call Home from 21 April 2013 to 28 October 2018 airing originally on the 7 [Seven] Network until it was axed and then picked up and continued on pay TV Network Foxtel. Neighbours was the first Australian TV show to feature an LGBT wedding. This show has been a TV staple in Australia since 1985. It's only since 2010 that LGBT characters began making regular appearances.
Great list! I was coming out while MySoCalledLife was running, and still had a difficult time. Watched most of these except the 2 from the 70s. I came out to mom while watching Roseanne get kissed by Sandra Bernhard, and she still ignores the fact today. Anyway, MSCL and Golden Girls are my faves out of this list. Tytyty! ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜 🤍🩷🩵🤎🖤
Gay bars in New York used to turn off music, and turn on TV so all the cruisers could watch The Golden Girls. I LOVE BETTY WHITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And......COME ON!!!!! Dorothy was the biggest drag queen EVER!!!!😁😁😁
Hey. Hey! She was a national treasure even if your not gay.
Same at Flick's bar in San Diego. Betty White was awesome.
I'm going to add "Six Feet Under." I think it was the first show that had an open gay character the entire show who was with his partner/husband until the show ended. The show treated them like a couple who had their ups and downs, but how a gay couple would handle them.
You don’t recognise just how revolutionary ‘Queer as Folk’ ( original British version) was when it first appeared. Advertisers withdrew adverts, but the channel persisted. Will and Grace was a bland travesty in that neither of the gay characters ever actually had sex, so as not to offend middle America
Right, Will&Grace only had the first gay kiss in primetime on broadcast TV, not hidden behind a pay wall.
I say swap QAF and Will & Grace around as Queer As Folk was several times better than your number 1 pick
Soap in the late 70s.
The greatest thing about both QAF and Dante's Cove was the characters passionately kissed and had on-screen (simulated) intercourse. There was no fading to flowers when kissing or the two guys walking in a room and then closing the door only to see them next having coffee in the morning. Whereas W&G were really for straights, QAF was for the gays.
Well, QAF (at least the US version--can't speak to the UK version) aired on Showtime so it was free to pretty much do whatever it liked when it came to not just on-screen sex and nudity but also language. The show was actually syndicated (very briefly) for "mainstream" television and it was so badly butchered (having to remove all the stuff that people watched it for) that the syndication was quickly pulled. As for Dante's Cove (and The Lair as well), the show NEVER aired on a mainstream TV network-it only aired on the LGBTQ premium pay-channel (for the vast majority of cable subscribers) here! So, much like QAF, the show didn't have to deal with network censors or outraged viewers because the only people who had access to the series basically had to pay for the series with an extra fee for access (the network is still available on my cable provider for an extra $7 a month to my regular bill and, given the very minimal amount of content the network provides, $7 is way too much; some of the programming is available to rent on a pay-per-view basis but a cost of between $2 and $5 for a single 45-50 minute episode is absurd).
You might consider that a lot of mainstream TV programs featuring straight characters never show "on-screen (simulated) intercourse" or any kind of nudity so that argument is completely meaningless. (And the rare times when sex is supposed to be happening on these shows with hetero couples, they're usually so wrapped up in sheets that it's impossible to believe there's any "real" action going on. Not to mention the silliness of post-coital shots where the male actor's bare chest is almost always fully exposed but the female actor's got the sheets pulled up almost to her throat--usually to hide the sports bra or other top she's actually wearing; if her shoulders are actually bared, then it means she's wearing some kind of strapless top.)
@@josephwest124 I must not have been clear on one of my bigger points. "Melrose Place" had a regular gay character for years. This was his only "kiss" ua-cam.com/video/PdiS63nIYko/v-deo.html. Now compare that to this ua-cam.com/video/iliuDqvCVjA/v-deo.html on the same show that could happen twice in the same episode for straights, but not in the entire history of the show for gays. You are also correct that the straights would be in bed the next morning covered, but you still got the idea they had sex and stayed the night.
Queer as folk, but the USA version, damn the blond guy was so hot!!!
Thanks for the trip down memory lane. I didn't remember every show you mentioned, but I wish I had seen them. Great job as usual!
Just discovered 'The Lair' 'Dante's Cove ' and ' Paradise falls ' on Amazon and had to binge them all.
I don't remember the show Brothers, then I looked it up. It was on Showtime from 1984 to 1989. We didn't have cable at the time so that's why i never heard of it. A couple of shows you could have included was "Soap" (1977-1981) for the Character Jodie Dallas played by Billy Crystal. The other one you had mentioned was "Love, Sidney" (1981-1983)
My problem with Soap was that Jodie Dallas mostly became bi.
@@michaeladkins6 Kind of like the gay son on 'Dynasty'. In those days, it was all too common (well, it still is) to suppose that a man is gay because He Just Hasn't Met The Right Woman.
@@majkusIt’s more like society presuming a man is gay because he’s not married by 30 and the man having to either come out or say that he just hasn’t met the right woman. The “haven’t met the right woman” is still a knee-jerk reaction today (in my 60s) when being questioned as to why I never married by someone with whom I’m not comfortable sharing my sexuality.
This is my favorite episode you've ever done!! I absolutely loved it and favorited it! 🌈 The only thing I'd add is Ryan Phillippe played a gay teenager on the US soap opera One Life To Live in 1992, which was very ahead if its time. My favorite Golden Girls gay moment was when they were telling Blanche somebody was a Lesbian and Blanche said, "well isn't Danny Thomas one?" to which Dorothy screamed, "not Lebanese, Blanche! LESBIAN!" 😂
Dorothy was RUTHLESS!!!!!!😁😁😁😁 condoms rose!! CONDOMS!!!!!
I think it was Danny Thomas :)
@@tallguym4m You're right! I stand corrected 😘😘😘
@@wdgbirmingham2 maybe Danny Kaye's a lesbian too?? I LOVE BETTY WHITE!!!🥰🥰🥰😃😁😁😁😁😁
I have always thought that the original Queer as folk (UK) was and still is superior - the English original was more gritty -less plastic and fake than the sanitised American effort.
Agree to disagree about UK Queer as Folk. I didn’t care at all for their casting choices. Anything but hot. But hotness is in the eye of the beholder.
I definitely agree. The young blond guy in the UK was was hot, the US one not so much. I also liked the leads in the UK version. The one good thing the US version did was keep one of the supporting characters alive, that died having sex with a stranger, who deserted him in the UK one. Certainly a thought provoking episode, but it was good in the US version to see how his life progressed.
Thanks for jogging my memory with some great TV journeys. IMHO, tho, "Queer As Folk" was one of the best-written TV series gay or straight! I still watch all five seasons on DVD. My next favorite would be "Brothers"...I never missed an episode. So, thanks again for the post.
The real gay interest for me in My So-called Life wasn't so much Ricky, but the math teacher! Here was a normal, everyday guy with a 9-5 job and a husband (!) who wasn't presented as a type of any kind which was refreshing to see.
Those are some great shows. I have seen most of them.
I liked Will & Grace ! But loved❤Queer as Folk much much more!🌈💪🔥
All in the Family, Edith's best friend is Divine who appeared on multiple episodes. It was the first appearance of a drag queen on network tv. Divine had her own tragic story arc that we got to experience through Edith's eyes. It was heart breaking. Then "there is Maude" with a regular returning gay character as well as a half season (10 episode) story arc of their gay neighbor. Gay presence started as small little nibbles until we get to the 00s. Noah's arc was breakthrough for representing the black queer community. "An early frost" was made for tv movie that dealt with AIDS under the Reagan dictatorship. In sci-fi we wont get gay hints until the Next Generation. Gene Rodenberry attempted to have a same sex couple on the show, but the censor banned that story line.
If you’re referring to Beverly LaSalle, that wasn’t Divine, but a somewhat famous NYC drag queen named Lori Shannon (born Don Seymour McLean).
Good list. I would put QAF #1 also. I prefer the American version although the British teenager played by Charlie Hunnam was so cute.
Although “Brothers” did portray a supportive family member, the GBF did indeed foster the same swishy gay stereotype from years past. I honestly thought that’s what my life was going to be. From a first-hand perspective, it wasn’t positive. In retrospect, “Will & Grace” had Jack and that stereotype is definitely present in the gay community…
I loved this Brothers, especially Swish. He reminded me of a guy I had worked with but who wasn't gay. He was just from Mississippi. You had to be there.
@@richardw3470 I’d probably find the character funny if I were to watch it now but in those days with no internet, no examples, smallish city, no discussion in sex ed, no support groups, no one would even SAY “gay”, no exposure to other places, mental health still a taboo, no knowledge about anything…it did not make me feel good.
You just made me feel old by calling these shows "yesterdayyear." The US Queer as Folk is definitely my #1.
Your best video yet. Thanks.
This was a great list and some shows I never even heard of. I did watch Queer As Folk, Dante’s Cove, The Lair and Noah’s Arc👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾🌈😎
My favorites are Dante's Cove and The Lair. Because somehow they fulfilled my fantasy of seeing a somewhat serious series production of a soft porn 😅. Beautiful masculine actors (yes I know there's a lot of debate around it), on-screen intimacy, nudity, etc. They did go from my kind of camp to something bad for my taste. I guess that's the life cycle of any TV show. Maybe that's why Eating Out and The Brotherhood Movie Franchises appealed to me too. First time I hear of Brothers. Seems like type I'd watch based on its description here. Noah's Arc, also hearing for the first time. Seems appealing to me too.
I'm not sure of the difference between a "gay show" and a show with gay characters in it. I very much enjoyed watching the TV show "Brothers and Sisters" with Sally Fields as the matriarch of a dynamic family. It featured a gay son who was a lawyer -- completely accepted by his family -- who had his own relationship challenges but ultimately ended up with a husband.
Isn't her own real son gay??
@@imeanithonest5704 -- Yes, I think that is true.
You’re SO right about the gay lawyer son on “Brothers and SIsters”, about his ending up with a husband: and not just any husband. A very HOT husband. Actor Luke MacFane. I’ve also seen him in “Single All the Way”.
You are really doing a grand job with your videos and subjects that you share in your videos.
I remember sneaking out of bed to go watch Brothers as a kid.
I’d never question your work. But I wonder if you’ve ever seen the ABC-TV comedy, Soap. It featured Billy Crystal as Jodie Dallas. He worked in TV and dated a closeted NFL quarterback. There were a lot of well-known actors on the show, most notably Robert Guillaume, whose character was spun off into the TV show “Benson.” There is some controversy about whether Jodie is a positive or negative character, but he was definitely groundbreaking in many ways.
I've heard of soap, but for some reason it didn't ring a bell when I made the video. Perhaps I will do a part 2 in the video series?
What's really a shame about the later series is that not all of them were available to all audiences without premium cable services.
Noah arc was my teen lifeline hahaha! And they are coming back!!!
What about Soap?
I was also wondering about Love, Sidney and Kate & Allie
Yes on Will a& Grace. Although not a specifically queer show I believe Shameless deserves an honorable mention. Perhaps another list “ queer shows that were not queer shows”. Golden Girls should be on this list. The amount of queer characters and plots is insane. They were not one offs. They were major plots. They have some of the best coming out scenes. The show has some of the most diverse queer characters and storylines of any show, including most queer shows.
Great list.
I was obsessed with gay erotic shows to watch early on, it was “Dante’s Cove” when I discovered Toby and Kevin’s steamy romance.
“Glee” I wanted to like, cuz of their musicals, but too much awkward dramas.
“Queer as Folk” was another thing I discovered after “Dante’s Cove”
Even though it only lasted 7 episodes I would include "Some Of My Best Friends" 2001 which was a TV sitcom version of the movie: "Kiss Me, Guido". It starred Jason Bateman, Danny Nucci and Alec Mapa.
love your videos
Could have included Canadian TV series Degrassi. Throughout its iterations there were numerous gay lead or recurrent gay characters. You may remember that Drake starred in Degrassi for 5 seasons before he was known as Drake.
I LOVED Brothers and wish I could find a copy of this series that did not have the annoying speaker whine. But sadly Showtime has never made it available. One thing I liked about Philip Charles MacKenzie's character of Donald Maltby is that he asked his gay theater friends to help him create the character and mannerisms. So while he had an effeminate ,swishy, flirty personae he would drop that barrier when he became very serious. Which I have to be honest is something I noticed a few of my gay friends do as well.
Thank you for the reminders. Noah's Arc and Will and Grace were my favorites. I even seen the Noah's Arc movie.
Will and Grace scores points for the basic premise, but loses many points for seemingly portraying New York as having no other gay men in it but the leads. They didn't seriously date, go to bars or other gay social activities, didn't march in a Pride parade, even off screen… They were 'gay' only enough to set up clever punchlines.
Yes, that also struck me as being unrealistic. I'm all for "willing suspension of disbelief", but are we really supposed to believe that a man as handsome, intelligent and charming as Will Truman... a lawyer, in NYC, with THAT apartment, would be SINGLE?!? Maybe for about 15 minutes!
I always loved the teacher in "Glee"! Matthew Morrison. Uh...yes please! And SOAP featured Billy Crystal as on openly gay in the 70s
But his character, Jodie, was far from being a positive representation of a gay man.
We didn't have cable growing up, so my first real experience seeing homosexuality and queerness portrayed on TV was when PBS had the guts to air "Tales of the City." Even then, I had to watch it in secret with my own TV that I had saved up to buy with help from my parents as a Christmas gift. However, because conservative lawmakers threw such a hissy fit over it and worked to defund PBS, they didn't finish the series. Thankfully, Showtime picked it up and finished it just before they brought us QAF. Also, right before that happened, my Dad had decided to get Dish satellite and Showtime, so I was able to see them both. Coincidentally, I also came out at that time, so there is a lot of significance attached to both those series for me.
I remember watching Brothers for the first time and thinking how revolutionary it was for the times!
I actually saw a little of "The Corner Bar," which was actually a summer replacement series that aired its handful of episodes during two successive summers. Second season there was an almost entire change in cast, but Ron Carey was now in as a character who (I'm guessing from the title sequence) was probably supposed to be Gay. And thanks for mentioning "Brothers." My whole family loved that show!
Tales of the city, more tales of the city
The UK QAF was a really amazing show--I watched the first series at the Austin gay film fest, back in the day, with a sold-out crowd for every episode--we were floored that a show like that--and if you've seen it all I can say is "that first encounter between Stuart and Nathan--holy cow!! Fan me!!"--was on TV.
It's interesting that when the first episode was broadcast in 1999 the outrage in the tabloid newspapers was about the portrayal of rimming. I don't think any of them complained that Nathan was supposed to be 15 while Stuart was nearing 30. I think that nowadays the big issue would be Nathan's age.
@@johnkilcullen Oh yes, to both comments: I'm pretty certain I'd never seen rimming in a TV show, and probably never even seen it in a mainstream movie at the point, either. It was Just Not Done. And there is NO way Nathan would be depicted as a 15-yo these days, at least not in an American show. And even if he was supposed to 17 or 18 he'd be played by an actor in his 20s.
@@GregginHOUCharlie Hunnam was 18 or 19 when he played the role of Nathan.
"Gay people love THE GOLDEN GIRLS." Who DOESN'T love THE GOLDEN GIRLS. At the homeless shelter I was at, every Thursday night EVERYBODY would watch the show on streaming, and they were mostly all old straight guys. But, Betty, Bea, Rue, and Estelle were a powerhouse that no one could resist. Their popularity was galaxy wide. And, I had completely forgotten about BROTHERS. That was another show that had worldwide appeal across ALL audiences. Why, because it was well written and acted. I will admit, I couldn't get into WILL AND GRACE. But as for QUEER AS FOLK, while it and all the characters were great, it was Debbie that was my favorite character. Sharon Glass stole that show, and never gave it back. One thing that all these queer shows have in common, is they were created by people who were not afraid to create something gay, and were successful because they came up with new and original characters, that felt like real people that EVERYONE could relate to, gay, straight, you name it. You didn't like them because of their orientation. You loved them because they were people who you could really relate to. And, let's not forget the first mainstream queer horror film came out in the mid 80's, A NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET 2. The writers finally admitted that the not so subtle gay subtext of the main character Jesse was intentional. And as for GLEE, besides the fact that I love musicals, I thought it was a great show for ALL it's storylines. I am still waiting for that GLEE/THE WALKING DEAD crossover episode, that we'll sadly probably never get. All the titles you mentioned show that people can create original queer content that appeals to more than just the community, so, they need to stop taking over non LGBTQ and turning them into the new "rainbow revue", and then getting mad at the fans who they are crapping on because they don't want to watch shows or movies that have been taken over, and then blast them for being phobic. It's not phobia, it the fact that our beloved shows have been taken over and a characters changed over night. Leave our shows alone, and go back to creating original shows with original characters. This list proves it can be done successfully, with a large crossover audience. Heck, back in the 90's, whenever I would go to see a new queer film at the local art house cinema, I had a couple of straight friends that would always come with, and they liked the movies too, because they didn't feel like stereotypes, they felt like real people. The only time there was a minor issue was when one of the movies had some DOCTOR WHO references in it that made my inner whovian nerd jump for joy, but they didn't get. Fortunately, I had enough WHO stories on VHS that I was able to get them hooked into that as well. The only queer movie I took friends to that wasn't received too well by them, or me for that matter, was BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN. They felt the same way I did about it. That it was two depressing hours of two people constantly whining about why they couldn't be together. However, they all had the same appreciation for the beautiful locations and scenery that I did, and the stellar acting. Two newer queer TV series that I highly recommend are, of course HEARTSTOPPER on Netflix. And, SINGLE, OUT that you can watch on HERE TV. An Australian series that has all the charm you can expect from a show made down under. In my opinion, the UK and Australia seem to be the best at making queer films and series. And SINGLE, OUT has one of the best, and funniest coming out scenes ever shown. I will say this, filmmakers nerd to really step up their game when it comes to queer horror movies. Besides NIGHTMARE 2, the only other one I know of is the slasher flick HELLBENT. Granted, it's just a typical slasher flick, not unlike any other slasher flick made from the 80's through to the 00's, but it takes place in the community, and, it has all gay characters. Plus, it doesn't skimp on the red stuff. Sorry for the rant. I now return you to your regularly scheduled comment thread.
Will and Grace? Queer as Folk is addicting. Will and Grace i really didn't get the hype.
Brothers was one of my favorite shows, although I caught them in syndication. Loved this show!!
Try to catch “Sirens”, a comedy about 3 EMT guys, one Out and Proud gay. Aired 2014-15 on USA cable television network. I think it’s available on UA-cam.
Soap should have been mentioned, at least in passing like Love, Sidney.
One I don’t see mentioned here is SouthLand. It featured Michael Cudlitz as Sgt. John Cooper, a semi-closeted divorced training officer on the LAPD. His boot, Ben McKenzie, figures him out early on, and a later season has him working with recovering officer Lucy Liu, who says the word is she “wouldn’t have trouble” with him, insinuating other officers know he’s gay. Either that, or Dewey (C.Thomas Howell) talks too much. Cudlitz took home several GLAAD Awards for his role, before tackling other roles in Dark Tourist and TWD, where he was playing up the on screen chemistry when off screen with Josh McDermitt as a fanship, the pair teasing fans with random intimate moments. Several behind the scenes TWD clips show him kissing other cast members, male and female. Mike has a wife and kids at home, but he’s at least open minded enough to make out with some cast mates.
Dante’s Cove was so titillating, but that acting… oh my God. Made it barely watchable.
Noah’s Arc however had no redeeming qualities at all.
My So Called Life was a flawless masterpiece.
I wonder if Ugly Betty is no 11.
also you cannot under-state the importance of Ellen.
Dante's cove and the Lair would have been much better if they didn't make it a bit 'bloody' yet go at it for 'spunky'.
Dawson's Creek had the first US network same sex kiss in Prime time.
It's a bit unfair to only say that the Channel 4 Queer as Folk got mixed reviews, and leave it at that. From memory it got generally sensational reviews - especially in the first season - sprinkled with Blistering Outrage Reviews from the still largely homophobic and conservative British press. It broke barriers in terms of bringing realistic gay characters to the nation's tut-tutting living rooms.
Missing from the list - Six Feet Under.
"Corner Bar" looks like it could be the basis for "Cheers"
Number 96 was the first television program anywhere in the world to feature a full diverse range of LGBTQ characters as regulars, although many historians and scholars are unaware of this, because the show's controversial content meant it was unable to be screened outside of Australia. Even today, the show could not be screened on American network TV.[1][4]
There had been LGBTQ characters in programs before but these were primarily guest characters or fleeting mentions.
Just to add context to My So-Called Life. It broke barriers by having a gay character in the '90s played by a gay actor (although I don't believe Wilson was openly gay to the public at the time) and enacting storylines that were based on his own life. And ABC wanted to renew the show, even though it didn't have huge ratings, but Claire Danes was overwhelmed by the demands of the show and didn't want to continue with the series (understandable, since she was 14/15 at the time and that show could be pretty damn intense with a ridiculously hard shooting schedule). The show went on to be a hit when MTV started airing it, even though there were only 19 episodes in total. It also happens to be one of the first shows I bought when it was finally released on DVD. And I'm a fan of Buffalo Tom's music after hearing it on the show.
I liked Shameless
For years I've heard criticism of Will & Grace not being gay enough, sometimes you can do more to help a cause by not showing everything, W&G did this and we should applaud them for this, think what happened to Ellen's sitcom, it was great, but once she came out, that's all it was about, and it became boring.
Good video and those were all great shows but William grace topped them all.
The Odd Couple
My so called life, was canceled because it was to ahead of it's time.
"HOT CHOCOLATE "????
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Six Feet Under?
Degrassi?
I don't think, will and grace. Would survive one season. If it originated today.
You include The Lair in this list but forget Dante's Cove ???
Dante's cove is directly after the lair. You clearly didn't watch the video before commenting
Ricki in MSCL!
Australian TV had Number 96 which aired from 13 March 1972 to 11 August 1977
And
The Box which aired from which aired from 11 February 1974 to 11 October 1977.
The Secret Life Of Us from 16 July 2001 to 28 December 2005
All of which aired on the 10 [Ten] Network
And
A Place To Call Home from 21 April 2013 to 28 October 2018 airing originally on the 7 [Seven] Network until it was axed and then picked up and continued on pay TV Network Foxtel.
Neighbours was the first Australian TV show to feature an LGBT wedding. This show has been a TV staple in Australia since 1985. It's only since 2010 that LGBT characters began making regular appearances.
How do you add Will and Grace but leave out Ellen, or are we just going strictly gay men?
Men only
Bosom Buddies?
it is canadian version not uk
Neither will or grace were gay so no rewards for that show
Great list! I was coming out while MySoCalledLife was running, and still had a difficult time. Watched most of these except the 2 from the 70s. I came out to mom while watching Roseanne get kissed by Sandra Bernhard, and she still ignores the fact today. Anyway, MSCL and Golden Girls are my faves out of this list. Tytyty!
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Married with Children had an episode centered on a gay storyline.
Sad you left out Paradise Falls