After Enlightenment
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- Опубліковано 5 лип 2024
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Apparently Charlotte Joko Beck dealt with her excitable students getting their first "enlightenment experience" by only giving them 60 seconds to tell her about it. Then she would say something like, "Great! So anyways, how are you getting along with your family/coworkers?"
Good idea!
joko had a lot of flaws as a teacher, i think she was wrong about that
essentially she should be able to deconstruct their experiences and point out their errors because its extremely rare for the experiences to be genuine
interview has its place but its way overused
This makes SOOOOOOOOO much sense. . , it's as a buffalo rancher once told me: "You can lead a buffalo anywhere it wants to go."
Wonderful! Buffalo wisdom...
I am not talking about enlightment. But recently i had a conversation with a friend about freedom, in which i noticed at one point, that my former attitude to the subject had changed completely. Sitting there i suddenly saw clearly that you need nothing special to be free. We can train our mind to recognize the freedom in every situation. This insight was so huge and overwhelming, that it was not possible to integrate it into the ongoing conversation.
Yeah. I get that.
As a part of the Work Practice (moving meditation) at my Zendo, we clean the Zendo for 20 minutes. I love it. On the door to the cleaning closet is the quote "Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water."
Simply beautiful.
Back in the day at Dharma Rain, we were sitting around during or after breakfast and started joking around about superpowers (of course, one doesn’t mention them, generally, out of politeness.)
Kyogen joked that Kakumyo’s superpower is “seeming normal.” :-)
I dont mean to be so off topic but does someone know of a way to get back into an Instagram account?
I was dumb forgot the password. I appreciate any help you can offer me
@Abel Hector instablaster :)
@Marlon Kannon i really appreciate your reply. I found the site thru google and I'm in the hacking process atm.
I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Marlon Kannon It worked and I actually got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thank you so much you really help me out :D
@Abel Hector You are welcome xD
My enlightenment came with its own instruction.
Realizing that there was no way to exist as I had before, and seeing for the first time with crystal clarity the madness around me, I asked this question.
“How do I live in a lunatic asylum?”
The answer came instantly.
“By living in a lunatic asylum.”
I drive a truck.
Do you actually drive a truck? Is it a good job? Can I ask you some questions about it? Thanks.
Yes I do.
Yes you can.
@@IrvingGod how do you sit for so long? Extended sedentary periods lead to a lot of pain and anxiety for me. My needs as an Autistic individual don't mesh well with the vehicles I chug around in, but I still use them to escape to nature, buy groceries, drive long distance to museums and loved ones. Does the niche (truck driving) you've followed in "the game" (as referred to in the above video) bring you to meditate on pain like this?
to clarify, how do you meditate on the restraints placed on your body by virtue of your job?
@@IrvingGod Thanks. So where do you work, how many hours, and how much do you get paid? And do you need a special license to be a truck driver?
Even though you won't read this I still must say it. Love your channel and your discourse.
He reads these comments almost always. I like the channel too. Love may be too strong word. Appreciate may be more suitable for me.
Thank you!
This is like subtle zen stand up!
Regarding this, I simply encourage people to read the Sunakkhatta Sutta wherein the Buddha discusses the problems of people overestimating their meditative progress.
Thank you so much for this video, it was very I formative and it made me want to see more of you. A big hug :)
try to act normal is possibly the best advice post enlightenment i've come across!!!
so many problems have happened because i i tried to communicate an enlightenment experience to someone who isnt my teacher (or a more advanced student) and it never goes well for anyone. it makes so much sense why the buddha didn't talk about his experience or state of being very often.
Gavin Bailey ..... exactly ppl ,in most cases,think dat u r lying or hallucinating!....and what wld b a huge minority,ppl who DO believe in what u say,start treating u like a Master and it becomes incredibly hard to live upto dier expectations...!!.
As a British person, I must say, I've never heard of the word lickspittle... And my vocabulary is okay.
Interesting topic.
I have a video idea for you, Brad, would like to hear your thoughts on the ten ox herding pictures and how they relate to your life :)
I think it is an Americanism. It is in Websters. Think of fawning or obsequious.
We have the word „Speichellecker“ in German since the 18th century and the phrase „jemandes Speichel lecken“ since the 17th century. Around the same time it surfaced in English.
Weird. You & another British person made the same comment. The guy who said it was definitely from England and I had never heard the phrase before he called me that. The ox heading pictures, eh? I could try.
Absolutely love your channel! Keep up the good work!
"Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water." Thank you, I appreciate your zen teachings. You make me suffer when you post on US political drama.
Agreed I LOVE the zen teachings,However,
I cringe like mad when he discusses US political drama. yikes
I tried to make the same point a couple of videos ago.
glad im not the only one who is sick of politics :)
Brad's a really super writer when he's on about Zen. If you're looking for a 'clear source' try Bukowski. That's mainlining reality.
I actually like his political commentary. I think it's important when you have so many western Buddhists confusing buddhism with left wing politics.
I like Brads videos a lot, and the way he describes things. Fairly new to zazen so I don't understand all of them. I bought Hardcore Zen at the Strand back in the days when society was functioning fully. Have to say while I didn't realize it immediately Hardcore Zen and the 16 or 17 dollars I spent on it have helped me understand and find a type of meditation (idk if thats the correct name for zazeN) that I like, more than all the new agey spiritual stores and their overpriced stuff.
Goddamnit, Brad. Every time I convince myself I'm not a Buddhist I eventually end up watching one of your videos or reading one of your books. Then I realize (again) how much freaking sense Zen makes. Why do you keep doing this to me?
Why do you fight it? Join us :P
Join the dark side, they have cookies
I'm sorry!
It's so amazing that people on UA-cam say, essentially, things like you're God and you're playing as a human so casually. I've read many history books. And in the past, people either get killed or considered insane to say things like that but now it's everywhere in social media. Amazing times 🙏
I haven't had anything like your 'bridge experience' but during a retreat I reckon I may have had a glimpse of anatta which made me aware of how people generally relate to the world in my personal life. It also made me feel more for them afterwards. The self seems like a kind of useful point of reference that we get hung up on, then it ends up being the source of alot of problems. I found Shantideva's Bodhicaryavatara useful as a kind of guide after this, especially the 'Wisdom' section about selflessness.
I like that they call it "Your Bridge Experience" This is perhaps a very apt and helpful visual metaphor for the "functional-relevance" of Satori, relative to Life, as it is actually Lived by Human Beings, before and after Enlightenment. Before Enlightenment, the Bridge to Nirvana is up, and you need to wait patiently, quietly bearing with Samsara. After awakening to the essential non objective nature of Reality, the bridge between Nirvana and Samsara is down, and you are free to travel between the Peace and Quiet of your absence in Nirvana, and your presence in Samsara, the world of Space Time, where Things and Tasks cause fear, giving rise to the sense of being a "you" Shitty stress. And, don't forget to put out the trash, remember often the essential insight revealing the Illusory nature of the sense of being a "someone" who is a body, who has important stuff to do. Revealed in the Sudden Flash of Insight were two essential Gifts, the nature of the unreal and the intuitive knowingness of the Real. Be on guard, as those who travelled the path before you, OFTEN GRAPPLED WITH subtle self deluding thoughts, like, "Now I am the one who is enlightened". There are no enlightened beings, the Buddha Nature is Nirvana, which is the extinction of the illusory idea of self. Thus, the multitude of entities, can be rightly seen as unreal, because they are wholly without reality. Perhaps after enlightenment the Koan could be who does Zazen Now?
Just be happy in the company of others - people find it unusual.
Hi Brad,
Regarding Japan and the Japanese people - it's fascinating to see their attention to detail, the expertise in various art forms, how clean their cities are, how content they generally seem to be, etc., but I am also sure there are some negative parts of the culture that you may have noticed.
Having lived and worked in Japan, how much of the culture do you think is directly or indirectly influenced by Zen and other forms of Buddhism?
It would be very interesting if you could do a video of your take on this whole aspect.
man i have been following you for like 2 months, I have no idea how I found you. Im a Turkish dude fucking around still. First I was watching your videos and thinking ohh what a cool guy and that stuff. Somedays ago i took an acid then had an ego death. I understood Im awareness, love is all and one,religions and every shit. That kinda stuff you know. My life was weird before but after that its even weirder. Universe literally talks with me , mad synchronicities , Venus's halo became a symbol and moved, antichrist stuff (branch is lit and so on) I didnt watched this video yet. But idk. I wanted to say I appreciate you man. I love you. Peace !
Thanks Brad. I've been reading a lot of Theravada Buddhist stuff as well as Zen, and one thing that I'm taking away from the Pali Canon is that whatever else "enlightenment" is its most important feature is a permanent reduction (elimination?) of Dukkha. I know zen has a complicated relationship with Theravada and I'm not so interested in who is right or wrong, but I'm definitely interested in a significant reduction (or elimination) of Dukkha. Would you say your bridge experience has led to that? Or something like it? Even asking the question I can see how it becomes immediately difficult. "I'm happier than I was before, but how do I know that's not just being older?" etc. But the Buddha at least seemed certain that what he was pointing us to was qualitatively different than ordinary happiness. Is your understanding similar to his, or is that an exaggeration caused by centuries of doctrinal evolution?
What is dukkha? Obviously, I am familiar with the word. But what does it mean when you use it? If you're asking if I still suffer, yeah, I do. I just have a different perspective on it. There's no experience that will fix everything.
@@HardcoreZen Thanks for responding. I suppose that I can't know what Dukkha is in its full scope until I have seen how it operates in my life on the most microcosmic possible scale, and I'm a long way from that. So I guess I just go with the standard definition: that sense of unsatisfactoriness that suffuses every experience and aspect of our lives, from the smallest spasm of disappointment when don't get something we want (or do get it) all the way up to the miseries of illness, old age, and death. I never really thought the Buddha was promising that you would feel no pain or frustration in your life after Nirvana, but that the sense of unsatisfactoriness was overcome and thus there was an unconditional element of happiness in everything, even things that seem tragic to us from a perspective conditioned by our corrupted desires. Yet what you say seems very plausible too. A propos of nothing, I was hanging out with a Burmese monk earlier this week and he said that after Nirvana you supposedly realize that you had never been born. That really rang a bell but I'm a clod so I have no idea yet what or where that bell was located.
dude so helpful.
I've been taught that such phenomenon eventually blends into the "meh" of practice and becomes mundane, as long as you don't grasp, fear or cling to it (then you're in a bit of trouble). Our experience is not so unique and special, and there is laundry to do.
love he threw in the Browns at the end. Dawg Pound!!
Cool
Right.
Hey Brad,
what do you think about the downsides of meditation? There are many research papers about the negative sides of meditation. Loss in motivation, loss in moral reasoning, higher risk for psychosis... and many more.
It makes me very critical and I think, it's really sth we have to talk about.
I think he did that in another video, way before this one
I've written about that a number of times. I should probably do more about the subject. One of the problems is that teaching meditation seems deceptively simple. And, in some ways it *is* genuinely simple to teach it. But you have to really understand it well before you're ready to do that. The established meditation traditions like Zen have always been very careful about this aspect of making sure meditation was only taught by those who deeply understood it. Nowadays, though, lots of entrepreneurs are cropping up - people who really don't understand meditation well enough to teach it, but who teach it anyway. Some of these unqualified teachers are very well-intentioned, they just have no idea what they're getting themselves into. The thing is, you need to have gone through all of that yourself -- loss of motivation, loss of moral reasoning, psychosis (or at least seeing within yourself the very real possibility of psychosis) before you are able to teach meditation to others. And a lot of the current crop of people teaching meditation are completely inexperienced in that stuff.
Great video.
One way to say it is "I will just pretend" or "play the game". Another way to say much the same thing is that you can try to be aware of the effects of your speech. Try not to say it if it's going to cause problems for someone...of course, we will always screw up, so we have to constantly be ready to forgive ourselves and restart the motor....
I love the "act normal". Brings back lots of bad memories!
and "No means no!" Great analogies.
At my own miniscule level, what works naturally is to realize how full of shit I am. And then to just be kind to someone, because I am touched by their humanity. Their humanity awakens something in me. So now who is so brilliant? I wouldn't have much of a chance wallowing in my own cute delusions....
I had an enlightenment experience in 2003.
I had one one time I forget. It was rad. Then I went back to being a schmuck.
Question: I agree with playing the game, but what do you do with your sig other or your spouse? If you can clearly see there's some skullduggery there, you could play the game and pretend, but you'll be with these folks for a long, long time; at least that's the idea.
One of the rantier hectic videos ever! Still off the hook, tho! :)
Damn i just remember my Patreon ran out. Need to get going on that again ._.
What you mean with "taste the waters"?
Like dipping your toes in the water to see if the temperature is fine.
So meaning testing a person if it's okay to talk about a subject
One more reason to go hide in the mountains as a hermit, I guess. If only I could though. I love my computers way too much.
last friend said I'm in a 5th Diminution Entanglement... Quantum latency gap errrrggh, I just said I was Adjusting ;)...
I think Ohio must be the only place in the western world where you can get away with asking, "hey, what about the browns?"
First time I watch you. Today I saw true it all. But I got really confused
Hahaha funny video! I like it :)
sometimes i get freaked out that something exists. Where am i then
Here.
I talked to a few people, and well.... bro- first- you woke me up! Well it really a cycle. I was Jesus! Frickin new it! He made a mistake the first time, but I realized the much bigger picture using Chris(my name)
History repeats itself because we are on a disc... inside a computer. Which is why space is vast. We’re a blip. If we want I can help us work together man.
Wait so if say I could change the stock market right now... well I mean gimme a minute I have to turn it on
that's a good talk, why you waste your time with buddhism i don't know
the reality is that genuine experiences such as your "bridge experience" hardly ever occur, the vast majority of zen masters today have not had it happen to them, they are stuck with some facsimile which is why the whole scene is so stupid and crazy
i don't actually think you can believe in such a possibility until it happens to you, i certainly didn't
but once the doors open a lot of the experiences continue to happen over the years and really for me have only recently dropped off, which perhaps is advancing age or having basically worked it out satisfactorily
it first happened to me as a child, then during a zen retreat and once it happened the whole zen scene reacted strongly against me so i eventually left, plus i could see they were all talking complete crap with no idea it was crap
a way of looking at it is what i call "being the other side of suicide", its sorta like you are depressed beyond suicide, you see what life is about and its interesting and worth living so despite being very depressed in outlook which is how things actually are, you are not suicidal
as i said only one in millions ever gets there
I talked to your subconscious for a bit
"Everytime I address the bridge experience it comes out wrong." Then stop talking about it publicly. You obviously don't know what you're talking about well enough yet and you're misguiding a lot of people. Otherwise you just come across as showing off or even using it as a marketing schtick.
It seems useful, even though it always goes wrong. This comment is a good example of how wrong it goes. Thank you.
I don‘t feel misguided by Brad. It‘s just a description of an event that happened in his life. He never said to me „buy my books and come to my sesshins and get your own ‚bridge experience‘(tm)!“.
@@HardcoreZen Well, instead of constantly bewailing why it always seems to go wrong, you COULD actually reflect on why someone like Julian of Norwich meditateed on their own enlightenment experiences for decades before actually writing an account of them(and then restricting their circulation), but that is not so good for marketing I suppose.
@@rogercormorant3669 I will reflect deeply upon your wise words. Thank you.
I should say that,@@recentlyrezzed1726 ! Great idea!