I shoot half plate on a c1900 field camera which has three book style holders. I found an exposed plate in one of them which was pretty neat, probably shot in Edwardian times. Half plate film is available from a few sources in the UK and Ilford do their annual request run. Loved the print and a big shout out to Roger for providing it. By the way, phonetically it's 'Edinbruh', the 'oro' ending is, ime, an American pronunciation. It may be Midwest specifically as that is where my wife is from (Indiana) but she's been married to me long enough to master the 'bruh'. :) I really enjoy and learn a lot from, the LF Friday video's so thanks Mat.
Great video as always Matt. Something worth noting for those looking to shoot plates... you can use/create inserts in plate holders to size down to standard and custom sizes smaller than the max plate holder size. It is also a wonderful way to avoid having to purchase a separate back for each size. Not sure if you have ever mentioned it in previous videos before, but for those seeking vintage gear there is quite a variety in diaphragm number standards prior to the 1920s as well.
Interesting video as always. Thanks for preserving this knowledge. I’d be interested in hearing even more of your take on different brands of plastic and wood holders for standard sizes.
Great topic. I have a whole plate camera, a couple of backs and film holders for whole plate. These are double dark slide, from perhaps the 1960s, Japan. I soon discovered that even at this relatively late date there is no standard for outside dimensions of the holders. Toyo whole plate holders are not the same as Rittreck. I have two other unlabeled holders, both of different sizes. I'm not put off though. I just love this format.
Thanks for the comment! Rittreck made some really interesting camera design choices. Lots of features and ability to adapt formats, but often led to much larger, sometimes clunkier camera bodies.
I managed to find a few of those old Kodak 8x10 wooden holders in great shape, since they are the same vintage they fit my 9A Century Studio camera perfectly. Thanks to you and Roger for sharing the Edinburgh plate - it's hard to find a more photogenic city - a beautiful place to visit. I just ordered a plate holder for my 120 year old 5x7. also, in the vintage theme - I acquired a glass plate negative dated 1895 from that Geneva NY studio that had been sealed away for 100 years. Its a picture of the photographer's wife in Victorian clothing sitting near a waterfall. We have located the gully it was taken in and found a similar outfit. The plan is to use the old gear to recreate the image with another (me) photographer's wife. keep the interesting tangents coming
Amen mat, I have a Linhof tech III ( an older three series, NOT the current tech V that is sold today); in this it was furnished with the metal 5x7" sheet holder adaptor, a 4x5" adaptor, and some lenses. This kit had the 4x5" adaptor, BUT like you said, trying to fit a polaroid 545/505 holder was impossible, due to the lip on the short side ( feature on the roller side of the holder), this meant the holder did NOT sit flush with the frame of the camera!, also the 5x7 was a metal film holder adaptor, not the 'normal' double darkslide that you show here, but a thin metal holder, so this is the Only holders that can fit, there are other options ( can fit on the round rotating adaptor, on the camera rear standard), but you have to be acutely aware of what film your machine takes, and how to handle it, so you avoid any light leaks during shooting.
Great topic. Never thought to compare my plastic and wooden 8 x 10 holders. I have plenty of those Kodak Eastman ones. Now I see why they’re so hard to pull out.
I think in spring backs with a little more play or a bale removing the holders could be a bit easier. Another thing I've found with wooden holders is the metal rails that hold down the film can be a little tight.
@@MatMarrash That's true. It usually takes me a couple of tries before I'm confident the film edge is under the rail. As to the spring back on my Kodak 2D, what I ended up doing was loosening the screw that held it in place and thus reducing the overall tension. With the C1 and its bale back, there's no problem at all.
There are some odd (and old) roll film sizes, too, mostly unavailable today. I developed two rolls of 3.5 inch film for a client once. Images were 3.5 x 5.5. It was called "postcard paper", intended to be contact printed, thereby producing postcards. Old roll film sizes might be a topic for a future show, but that's not exactly "large format".
Postcard format is a really interesting one since there was a good overlap between roll film and sheets/plates. At the shop we still see a lot of those coming in from small town studios in rural Ohio.
As a teen ager in the 50s and early 60s I had an RB Tele Graphic SLR in 3.25x4.25 inches. You locked in the film holder not with the kind of back we know today but the film holder had croves on the side and it attached with something that looked like a graflock locking system
Glad to have ya back this Friday! I'm sure the birthday print sale was exhausting. This was a really interesting video with a ton of information I hadn't really considered because of how standardized modern LF is in most cases. The print also turned out really well, and there's nothing wrong with some friggin trees!
Fun facts for Europeans: DIN sizes for paper are based on a square meter of paper (DIN A0). When you fold it once you get A1 and so on. This is based on 1 to √2 - approx 1:1,41 length to width ratio. DIN is pronounced like in english the name 'Dean', a little bit stretched emphasis. The paper format is usually spoken quickly 'deanah' in everyday use.🤓
Y'all Europeans out there actually living in the 21st century while Americans are still living in the 1800's with this Imperial measurement system. -__- BTW thanks for sharing that very cool fact!
I think the German din T figure for 8x10 is a bit long for my Deardorff . Which are around .350” if memory serves me! My Toyo holders are less than that 0.406” as well. 🤔 Interesting printing challenge 😀
Plates are something I still have to try out, I have a 4x5 holder, just need to get the inserts for my SP-445 and the plates themselves. Hopefully later this year?
If you are shooting ortho or colour blind plates (like from Jason Lane) you can develop in a tray, by inspection under a red light. It is by far the best way to do it as you can stew for longer if needed or cut it short if you have over exposed. It is also lovely to see the image coming up. (I'm not sure anyone is selling panchromatic plates so this is probably true of anything you could buy today)
Been trying to find info on the differences between film vs glass plate cameras. I have a Linhof Mk4 Technika 4x5. Are the plate holders the same size and thus only needing a “Glass Plate” holder?
Great question! Since you're working with a modern Technika, all you'll need is a modified film holder (DIY option) or one made specifically for plates. Dedicated holders being designed for thicker glass plates will usually only take one plate at a time, and not have room for a "double dark slide".
Great video and important things to know. But in 30 years of large format I've bought a couple of dozen 8x10 film holders, mostly old wooden ones (lighter than plastic,) and while acouple needed repair all of them worked fine in modern cameras. Ditto for more than 50 4x5 holders, including ancient wooden ones that came falling apart. What I have gotten from two dozen 5x7 holders are three weird European sized holders that look just like US 5x7 holders but 5x7 film didn't quite fit. I paid very little for most of these, expected more problems than I actually found, and am overall delighted with my experience. Your mileage may vary- 😉
You may have picked up 13x18 holders. Close, but no cigar. I bought two of those once, found my 5x7 film didn't fit, and was lucky enough to sell them to someone else. 13x18 film is available.
Hello Matt, my first chance to see a video all the way through. I enjoyed watching the Kallitype process, please excuse my lack of knowledge, but is it something that is normally done in a darkroom? Anyway your results were superb. Thank you.
Hey Harold thanks for the comment. The great thing about alternative photographic process prints is you don't need a traditional darkroom to make them! You only need a space without blue light (incandescent or warm LEDs works great) and access to water for washing (running preferred).
@@MatMarrash Is this Kallitype process the same process used by some of the American Civil War photojournalists like Brady, Gibson and Gardner had used? I recall reading where one of these gentlemen lamented the less than ideal conditions working in the back of a covered wagon.
@@haroldishoy2113 Hey Harold much of the work made during the Civil War era was done with Wet Plate Collodion and printed with a variety of papers, with salt printing being one of the more common techniques. Kallitypes didn't come around until the late 1880's but still has a lot of that old timey feel.
Thanks Michael! I've settled in on Kallitypes for the amount of experimentation I tend to do in printing. Burning through silver nitrate and sodium citrate is much, much cheaper than anything in the Pt/Pd process. Kallitype still doesn't seem as consistent as Pt/Pd, but that might just be something that will fade with experience.
Great video and excellent advice as always Matt, very well explained! I like the plate/kalitype too. Not sure if the way you say it is a standard North Americanism (like "Naikon") but the second syllable of Tachihara would be pronounced "chee" in Japanese. I've got the same camera :)
Thank you! As always, it's a pleasure to watch your videos - thank you so much for all your effort on them. Now, this is awkward since it's not your picture, but I would love to buy a print of that plate if you were to make them and Roger would be fine with it - I lived in Edinburgh for 4 years and walked through that exact scene almost daily, but never cared to take a picture of it as it's 'just a tourist photo', but this representation of that scene feels incredibly Edinburgh to me and I would love to have the memory.
I'd be OK with that if Mat could get a decent print out of it. It is pretty high contrast and probably do better on printing out processes (salt, van dyke or argyrotype - I've been using that recently). Just write my name on the back of the print so people know where it came from.
Hey Arild, shoot me a message: largeformatquestions@gmail.com and we can arrange something.I'll use the proceeds to return Roger's plate and print to him! :)
Interesting. Despite the roll film sizes originating in the USA (Rochester, NY, at Eastman Kodak), Ninth Plate is close to the old (half a century obsolete) 129 roll format, while sixteenth plate is almost exactly the same as "full frame" 127 (the 8 exposure size, if you don't recut 120 to feed a 127 camera and thus get twelve of that size negative). Quarter plate is very close to the real size of 9x12 cm ("German 4x5"). I've been aware of Whole Plate, Half Plate, and Quarter Plate (because there are some very nice old wood field cameras in those sizes, and not all of them will accept a modern 5x7 or 4x5 film holder), but hadn't encountered Sixth Plate, Ninth Plate, or Sixteenth Plate. Also worth noting that German manufacturers (including Kodak, after they purchased Nagel) continued to make plate cameras, mostly in 6.5x9 and 9x12 but also in 10x15 and 13x18, with very non-DIN plate holders into the late 1930s -- I've seen a list of more than a dozen different, only partly compatible (i.e. this brand holder will fit that camera, but that brand holder won't fit this camera, and the other one won't got either way and doesn't even mount by the same method) plate holder formats even just in 9x12 cm. Manufacture of the last of the "plate cameras" (still built for glass plates, and using a film sheath to adapt to sheet film) was only halted by the German build-up to war production starting around 1936 (and there were still a few plate cameras produced as late as 1939). And that print from the glass negative -- just WOW!
Thanks for the wealth of knowledge in this comment! The only time I've ever encountered sixth and ninth plates was in a small studio in Marion, OH that had a giant portrait camera on a rod iron stand. It had a ton of different reducing backs, one of which was a windowed ninth plate that could shift all over the ground glass for easy composition. To seal the deal it had on it an immaculate Cooke Knuckler!
@@MatMarrash And I bet they only quit using plates in that big old camera when they got too hard to find or too expensive to use. Kodak still sold T-Max on glass into the mid-1990s.
love this episode! just got myself a 1920(? lens and shutter is at least from the 20s but the camera isent branded so idk) that I got to dedicate to glass plates, both wet and dry. got a new zebra 5x7 dryplate holder for it, turns out the back was 1mm too small to fit the zebra holder, so i had to fix that with some sand paper and an afternoon lol! haven't shot it before but I'm planning on taking it for a spin tomorrow! also had to louseen the spring back to fit it since that plate holder is so thick lol! if the focus distance is wrong ill just keep modding the camera to fit me lol! thankfully we have a woodshop at school, and i have a lot of free time! (if you want i can post pics of the camera/resturation in the OMS discord)
Love Marrash 3rd act pandemic hair returning to its former glory
I shoot half plate on a c1900 field camera which has three book style holders. I found an exposed plate in one of them which was pretty neat, probably shot in Edwardian times.
Half plate film is available from a few sources in the UK and Ilford do their annual request run.
Loved the print and a big shout out to Roger for providing it.
By the way, phonetically it's 'Edinbruh', the 'oro' ending is, ime, an American pronunciation. It may be Midwest specifically as that is where my wife is from (Indiana) but she's been married to me long enough to master the 'bruh'. :)
I really enjoy and learn a lot from, the LF Friday video's so thanks Mat.
Great video as always Matt. Something worth noting for those looking to shoot plates... you can use/create inserts in plate holders to size down to standard and custom sizes smaller than the max plate holder size. It is also a wonderful way to avoid having to purchase a separate back for each size. Not sure if you have ever mentioned it in previous videos before, but for those seeking vintage gear there is quite a variety in diaphragm number standards prior to the 1920s as well.
Interesting video as always. Thanks for preserving this knowledge. I’d be interested in hearing even more of your take on different brands of plastic and wood holders for standard sizes.
Thanks for putting together these great videos! You are a treasure 📸
Great topic. I have a whole plate camera, a couple of backs and film holders for whole plate. These are double dark slide, from perhaps the 1960s, Japan. I soon discovered that even at this relatively late date there is no standard for outside dimensions of the holders. Toyo whole plate holders are not the same as Rittreck. I have two other unlabeled holders, both of different sizes. I'm not put off though. I just love this format.
Thanks for the comment! Rittreck made some really interesting camera design choices. Lots of features and ability to adapt formats, but often led to much larger, sometimes clunkier camera bodies.
I managed to find a few of those old Kodak 8x10 wooden holders in great shape, since they are the same vintage they fit my 9A Century Studio camera perfectly. Thanks to you and Roger for sharing the Edinburgh plate - it's hard to find a more photogenic city - a beautiful place to visit. I just ordered a plate holder for my 120 year old 5x7.
also, in the vintage theme - I acquired a glass plate negative dated 1895 from that Geneva NY studio that had been sealed away for 100 years. Its a picture of the photographer's wife in Victorian clothing sitting near a waterfall. We have located the gully it was taken in and found a similar outfit. The plan is to use the old gear to recreate the image with another (me) photographer's wife.
keep the interesting tangents coming
Amen mat, I have a Linhof tech III ( an older three series, NOT the current tech V that is sold today); in this it was furnished with the metal 5x7" sheet holder adaptor, a 4x5" adaptor, and some lenses. This kit had the 4x5" adaptor, BUT like you said, trying to fit a polaroid 545/505 holder was impossible, due to the lip on the short side ( feature on the roller side of the holder), this meant the holder did NOT sit flush with the frame of the camera!, also the 5x7 was a metal film holder adaptor, not the 'normal' double darkslide that you show here, but a thin metal holder, so this is the Only holders that can fit, there are other options ( can fit on the round rotating adaptor, on the camera rear standard), but you have to be acutely aware of what film your machine takes, and how to handle it, so you avoid any light leaks during shooting.
Great topic. Never thought to compare my plastic and wooden 8 x 10 holders. I have plenty of those Kodak Eastman ones. Now I see why they’re so hard to pull out.
I think in spring backs with a little more play or a bale removing the holders could be a bit easier. Another thing I've found with wooden holders is the metal rails that hold down the film can be a little tight.
@@MatMarrash That's true. It usually takes me a couple of tries before I'm confident the film edge is under the rail. As to the spring back on my Kodak 2D, what I ended up doing was loosening the screw that held it in place and thus reducing the overall tension. With the C1 and its bale back, there's no problem at all.
There are some odd (and old) roll film sizes, too, mostly unavailable today. I developed two rolls of 3.5 inch film for a client once. Images were 3.5 x 5.5. It was called "postcard paper", intended to be contact printed, thereby producing postcards. Old roll film sizes might be a topic for a future show, but that's not exactly "large format".
Postcard format is a really interesting one since there was a good overlap between roll film and sheets/plates. At the shop we still see a lot of those coming in from small town studios in rural Ohio.
Great work as always!! Don't forget 6"x10", popular in japan 🙂
As a teen ager in the 50s and early 60s I had an RB Tele Graphic SLR in 3.25x4.25 inches. You locked in the film holder not with the kind of back we know today but the film holder had croves on the side and it attached with something that looked like a graflock locking system
Glad to have ya back this Friday! I'm sure the birthday print sale was exhausting. This was a really interesting video with a ton of information I hadn't really considered because of how standardized modern LF is in most cases. The print also turned out really well, and there's nothing wrong with some friggin trees!
Fun facts for Europeans: DIN sizes for paper are based on a square meter of paper (DIN A0). When you fold it once you get A1 and so on. This is based on 1 to √2 - approx 1:1,41 length to width ratio. DIN is pronounced like in english the name 'Dean', a little bit stretched emphasis. The paper format is usually spoken quickly 'deanah' in everyday use.🤓
Y'all Europeans out there actually living in the 21st century while Americans are still living in the 1800's with this Imperial measurement system. -__- BTW thanks for sharing that very cool fact!
Zebra Glass Plates from Slovenia are an option. I am trying some out and so far so good!
I think the German din T figure for 8x10 is a bit long for my Deardorff . Which are around .350” if memory serves me! My Toyo holders are less than that 0.406” as well. 🤔
Interesting printing challenge 😀
Plates are something I still have to try out, I have a 4x5 holder, just need to get the inserts for my SP-445 and the plates themselves. Hopefully later this year?
If you are shooting ortho or colour blind plates (like from Jason Lane) you can develop in a tray, by inspection under a red light. It is by far the best way to do it as you can stew for longer if needed or cut it short if you have over exposed. It is also lovely to see the image coming up. (I'm not sure anyone is selling panchromatic plates so this is probably true of anything you could buy today)
@@RogerHyam I would love to develop my inspection but I sadly don’t have a darkroom at home or space to have one temporarily setup.
Been trying to find info on the differences between film vs glass plate cameras. I have a Linhof Mk4 Technika 4x5. Are the plate holders the same size and thus only needing a “Glass Plate” holder?
Great question! Since you're working with a modern Technika, all you'll need is a modified film holder (DIY option) or one made specifically for plates. Dedicated holders being designed for thicker glass plates will usually only take one plate at a time, and not have room for a "double dark slide".
Great video and important things to know. But in 30 years of large format I've bought a couple of dozen 8x10 film holders, mostly old wooden ones (lighter than plastic,) and while acouple needed repair all of them worked fine in modern cameras. Ditto for more than 50 4x5 holders, including ancient wooden ones that came falling apart. What I have gotten from two dozen 5x7 holders are three weird European sized holders that look just like US 5x7 holders but 5x7 film didn't quite fit. I paid very little for most of these, expected more problems than I actually found, and am overall delighted with my experience. Your mileage may vary- 😉
You may have picked up 13x18 holders. Close, but no cigar. I bought two of those once, found my 5x7 film didn't fit, and was lucky enough to sell them to someone else. 13x18 film is available.
Hello Matt, my first chance to see a video all the way through. I enjoyed watching the Kallitype process, please excuse my lack of knowledge, but is it something that is normally done in a darkroom? Anyway your results were superb. Thank you.
Hey Harold thanks for the comment. The great thing about alternative photographic process prints is you don't need a traditional darkroom to make them! You only need a space without blue light (incandescent or warm LEDs works great) and access to water for washing (running preferred).
@@MatMarrash Is this Kallitype process the same process used by some of the American Civil War photojournalists like Brady, Gibson and Gardner had used? I recall reading where one of these gentlemen lamented the less than ideal conditions working in the back of a covered wagon.
@@haroldishoy2113 Hey Harold much of the work made during the Civil War era was done with Wet Plate Collodion and printed with a variety of papers, with salt printing being one of the more common techniques. Kallitypes didn't come around until the late 1880's but still has a lot of that old timey feel.
Kallitype is pretty intriguing. I've done some Pt/Pd printing but, as you know, it's expensive. I think you did the glass plate justice.
Thanks Michael! I've settled in on Kallitypes for the amount of experimentation I tend to do in printing. Burning through silver nitrate and sodium citrate is much, much cheaper than anything in the Pt/Pd process. Kallitype still doesn't seem as consistent as Pt/Pd, but that might just be something that will fade with experience.
Great video and excellent advice as always Matt, very well explained! I like the plate/kalitype too.
Not sure if the way you say it is a standard North Americanism (like "Naikon") but the second syllable of Tachihara would be pronounced "chee" in Japanese. I've got the same camera :)
Thank you! As always, it's a pleasure to watch your videos - thank you so much for all your effort on them.
Now, this is awkward since it's not your picture, but I would love to buy a print of that plate if you were to make them and Roger would be fine with it - I lived in Edinburgh for 4 years and walked through that exact scene almost daily, but never cared to take a picture of it as it's 'just a tourist photo', but this representation of that scene feels incredibly Edinburgh to me and I would love to have the memory.
I'd be OK with that if Mat could get a decent print out of it. It is pretty high contrast and probably do better on printing out processes (salt, van dyke or argyrotype - I've been using that recently). Just write my name on the back of the print so people know where it came from.
Hey Arild, shoot me a message: largeformatquestions@gmail.com and we can arrange something.I'll use the proceeds to return Roger's plate and print to him! :)
@@MatMarrash Please keep the plate and any print sales as a contribution to the channel.
@@RogerHyam Thank you so much for agreeing to selling a print!!
Interesting. Despite the roll film sizes originating in the USA (Rochester, NY, at Eastman Kodak), Ninth Plate is close to the old (half a century obsolete) 129 roll format, while sixteenth plate is almost exactly the same as "full frame" 127 (the 8 exposure size, if you don't recut 120 to feed a 127 camera and thus get twelve of that size negative). Quarter plate is very close to the real size of 9x12 cm ("German 4x5"). I've been aware of Whole Plate, Half Plate, and Quarter Plate (because there are some very nice old wood field cameras in those sizes, and not all of them will accept a modern 5x7 or 4x5 film holder), but hadn't encountered Sixth Plate, Ninth Plate, or Sixteenth Plate.
Also worth noting that German manufacturers (including Kodak, after they purchased Nagel) continued to make plate cameras, mostly in 6.5x9 and 9x12 but also in 10x15 and 13x18, with very non-DIN plate holders into the late 1930s -- I've seen a list of more than a dozen different, only partly compatible (i.e. this brand holder will fit that camera, but that brand holder won't fit this camera, and the other one won't got either way and doesn't even mount by the same method) plate holder formats even just in 9x12 cm. Manufacture of the last of the "plate cameras" (still built for glass plates, and using a film sheath to adapt to sheet film) was only halted by the German build-up to war production starting around 1936 (and there were still a few plate cameras produced as late as 1939).
And that print from the glass negative -- just WOW!
Thanks for the wealth of knowledge in this comment! The only time I've ever encountered sixth and ninth plates was in a small studio in Marion, OH that had a giant portrait camera on a rod iron stand. It had a ton of different reducing backs, one of which was a windowed ninth plate that could shift all over the ground glass for easy composition. To seal the deal it had on it an immaculate Cooke Knuckler!
@@MatMarrash And I bet they only quit using plates in that big old camera when they got too hard to find or too expensive to use. Kodak still sold T-Max on glass into the mid-1990s.
love this episode! just got myself a 1920(? lens and shutter is at least from the 20s but the camera isent branded so idk) that I got to dedicate to glass plates, both wet and dry. got a new zebra 5x7 dryplate holder for it, turns out the back was 1mm too small to fit the zebra holder, so i had to fix that with some sand paper and an afternoon lol! haven't shot it before but I'm planning on taking it for a spin tomorrow! also had to louseen the spring back to fit it since that plate holder is so thick lol! if the focus distance is wrong ill just keep modding the camera to fit me lol! thankfully we have a woodshop at school, and i have a lot of free time! (if you want i can post pics of the camera/resturation in the OMS discord)
update: swaped that camera for an 8x10 lol
You missed 7x11 ;-)
5x12 and 14x20 too, I'm off my game! ;)