There is a way to keep your drop wires between the bus wires and the rails straight. It is so simple. Everybody has a junk car in their collection that they probably won't run or don't mind using as a tool. In this example let's say you have one bus wire that is black and one that is red. Stick a piece of red tape to one side of the car and black piece to the other side. As you go along installing the drop wires push that car along the track. The color tape on the sides of the car are your simple visual reminder how to wire the track.
Amen on the circuit breakers. I fried 5 decoders and melted one truck on my first 6 DCC sound units and even melted a couple axles on on of my Passenger sets. Definitly always use circuit breakers or an inline fuse they work great too! Thanks Mike for another very informative video!
This video will be saved for future reference as I prepare to wire my layout for DCC. One loop for DCC and one for DC so I can run both kinds of trains on my layout. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
I wish I could post a LINK to a picture that illustrates really well how wire gauge effects your power! Basically (I know a ton of people are probably going to hate this analogy!) think of wire size like water pipe size, the bigger the pipe is the less "pressure" you have in the pipe for "X" amount of flow rate. You have "X" amount of volts pushing a set amount of amps with "X" amount of ohms restricting those amps down the "pipe". When you use too large a gauge of wire you run out of "water pressure" if you will for the volts to push the amps.
Many years ago I bought what I think is the first DCC type control. It was made by the Keller company and was called command control. The only thing I miss about the current DCC systems is a warning if you get a short. The Keller system had a bell in the station that would ring if you goofed and had a short. That was nice as you could turn on the DCC every so often and see if you had a short. And if when running you got a short, it would inform you.
Mike you are bang on right on the subject of feeders regarding Kato unitrack. They have unijoiners and they connect better than other inferior track, end of story.
Great information and also enjoyable to watch. (First time Watcher here) I am getting ready soon to install the buss wire and feeders to a fairly large home HO layout with about 400 feet of main line projected. The full main line is not installed yet, (about 250 feet installed so far) and I would like to get some scenery in where the track is installed and doing the wiring now is a lot easier before scenery goes in. * My main concern with the buss wiring on my mountain layout was can my low elevation river line and the high elevation mountain high line share the same buss wire. The river line and high line basically run side by side only at much different heights, (They're about 15" to 20" in height separation). It looks like they can share the same buss as long the polarity on the feeders is correctly wired to the rails. Otherwise, I would have to run two buss wires side by side to the same location on the bench work (one for the river line and one for the high line) and that seems like a waste of wire. Any advice is welcome and thanks for doing the video and sharing the information. Phil Jersey Shore Area
Thankyou for this video, i just bought my first dcc system plus i also saw your video on using dcc and dc together. Its making things a lot easier for me.
Great video - very reasonable and both "how" and "why" explained. Favorite part: 13:15 "You can see that I've screwed these wires up to the bottom of the Homasote which we're not even gonna GO there..." Don't know what the story is behind that but I'll bet it's a doozy. Thanks again Mike!
Sorry to be off topic but does anybody know a trick to log back into an Instagram account? I stupidly lost my account password. I would love any tips you can offer me
@Ayaan Landyn i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and Im in the hacking process now. Takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
hi Mike love the video I will be doing it in the near future 1 thing that does work when getting the right wire on the same side is get a old box car and paint 1 side red and use it on the track and you would never go wrong
Mike, thank you for another very informative video. I use Kato Unitrack as you do on your home layout. My dcc is NCE.I elected to use a simple power routing switch that allows for power to be sent only to a siding that is the programming track.This is very cost effective and allow me to turn off power to the remainder of the layout and power on to the program track which is a siding connect to the mainline, but insulated by insulated unijoiners. This worked very well for me.Again thank you for all the helpful suggestions.
+Mike Fifer , I have opted for the most simple and least expensive methods versus using more electronics to do what I can do by flipping a switch. I understand your point.
Years ago when this system was real new I had a system from Command Controll (have no idea where they went) and it had a buzzer built into the unit. Nice!!!!!
I'm using what ive got for my bus wire 18ga with suitcase connectors and zip tie tabs to identify specific runs. Im thinking the red led short warning on top of my of a water tower.
Nice video....I am getting ready to buy buss and feeder wire and also suitcase connectors as soon as I can find a place with decent prices for those items. Thanks and nice looking layout what I could see.....
@@N-Scale Would you know a good place to buy those suitcase connectors in bulk (some call them Scotch Lok connectors). They save a lot of time so no soldering needed of the feeders to the buss wire...Thanks.
I am building a Woodland Scenic N scale kit running a DCC system. The kit comes with 3 switches. It doesn't say whether they are manual or powered switches. The board will be 3ft by 6ft. My question for you: On a small area layout like this, is it necessary to use a bus line around the layout or just one feeder line to the track?
This is a very informative video, thank you very much, Already started my layout, but read and watched as much as I could. Allen's site (DCC for Dummies) is something everyone needs to read and keep handy, even if you have built your layout. I got an NCE system w/EB-1 circuit breakers for districts. If a short occurs in the yard, only that area is is affected and not the entire layout. I will watch more of your videos and keep learning, that why this is so much fun. Even if your not a wire Wizard!!!! Will try to post a couple of vids of my Washington Terminal Co. layout and would really like you insight.
Hi Mike. What size bit/hole would you suggest for feeders? I know Woodland Scenic s say for their Just Plug lights, but I can't find anything for Kato.
Question: Should I set my Kato turnouts to power routing or non power routing for DCC. Also, should I put insulated rail joiner on the turnouts? Any help would be great thank you!
I does not mater on the power routing but I would insulat all 4 rails leaving each turnout and re-feed beyond unless on a yard ladder or something similar where the power had to pass through the turnout. Mike
Perhaps get a "Police car" Cherry and put it on a shelf above your track - visible from anywhere in your train room! Or a red strobe of some kind made for service vehicles. Just a thought!
BarryOlson Mike I noticed you have a Kato turntable on your layout. Did u or r u going to recess the turntable into your foam? Great videos. keep them coming.
I like the way you show your wiring, I need to know, NEC, or NCE. They have an item that wraps around the wire and clipps over it, So how do you fell about them
Mike. I have watched a number of video on doc wiring. On the diagram you used, are the feeders insulated from one another or the all wired in parallel.
Would 16gauge be sufficient for a n scale bus while using Kato's blue and white feeder wires? Planning on make my bus a complete loop just to be be on the safe side. I read that Digitrax dcc system sends out 5amps to the track. Is this enough for approx 20ft of track and 4 locomotives. 1 running and 3 stationary on turnouts? I just don't want keep taking them off and having to put back on the track
Do not loop Bus wires because the signal/command send from the DCC controller can be cancelled or jammed. in addition the controller works best mid way on a bus line like the diagram shows because of the drop in current per length. So Start in the middle and work out word using thicker gauge wire on the main feed wire than that used to feed the loads to keep power levels balanced though out the layout.
@@kjmelcher I would not loop any because DCC sends signal down the Red/Hot line and if the Black/Ground is looped I can see it being possible to get some back feed as well if its looped When it comes to Phone systems and trying to track a bad lag/pair if the line is looped or cross grounding the signal can repeat or distort making it almost impossible to track damages down to the line over long distances.
I am using Kato track should I place insulated joiners in to create blocks that have a feeder or can I just place a feeder every piece of track that connects to my 12 guage bus wire?
Mike, question? What guage is kato unitrak feeder wires? Not mentioned in the video also I know you don't like the suitcase connectors . I'm looking to use 3m scotchlock # 905 recommended for I believe 14 to 16 guage bus and a 18 to 22 feeder . You mentioned 24 guage drop feeders. I think using the right ones would be a success 4× 16 layout. Thanks for any feedback.
I don't know why people think you need 12 gauge for any model railroad. If memory serves, that will carry 20 amps!!! I also don't think you need any more than 22 gauge wire for feeders every 10-15 feet (3 sections of track). Agree with what you are saying all the way! I never twisted any wire, no issues...
Mr Fifer How are you using the Phone wires and connecters ? I've thought of using them for all turnouts and short feeder wires I have several feet of the 50 strand cable and 5 or 6 connection block the 50 size and insert tool also you asked about a BUZZER for detection circuit may look into a lost plane buzzer for model aircraft Thanks Don Mowery
I would not say the DCC circuit breaker will prevent equipment burn up at a switch. They still try to turn power back on during the short and in most cases the wheels are in a spot the may not produce a low resistance short that would trip the breaker. The high resistance short that don't draw enough current to trip the booster or circuit breaker is what melts trucks. The modern DCC circuit breaker isolate sections of the layout so a short does not stop the entire layout and provide for better recovery of sound decoders after a short. Kato #6 switches are the biggest offender of this because of the small distance between the throw rails. Just my opinion of course.
+Mike Fifer Lots of switch settings on the PM42, good luck. I have never burned up a truck on my home layout. Probably because I pay more attention to the trains then the people running at our club layout. You are right about an alarm to let people know there is a short.
I'm getting ready to build a home layout with 2 main lines and a single mountain line and am planning to use a common negative on each seperate line to simplify my wiring. Does that matter if I decide to go DCC in the future? Or should I just put the insulated joiners on both rails of the lines? I can't seem to find an answer anywhere
Great video Mike, this will help out a lot as we are building my kids a layout as we speak. I do have a few questions on the wiring tho and even more so as you have been a comms guy before. I noticed that the Kato feeders are 24AWG wire, could one use Cat5 or Cat6 wire (believe it’s 22AWG) for the feeder drops soldered to the Kato Unijoiners? And as our layout is only 6’x4’ with an add on yard that is separate (meaning we can remove it from the layout if we don’t want to use it), can we use 18AWG thermostat wiring for the Buss wire? Or does all the wiring have to be high voltage and not low voltage? All the wiring would be solid core and soldered to one another. Thanks
Im planning a layout in DC. I don't know what people consider small. It will be on a 8'L x 3' W tabletop. To me that's small. Would this really need to be put into blocks? Hoping this will be a simple hobby. Don't mind wiring up the power bus or feeders. Just like this to be simple to build.
Trying not to annoy, but if I switch from DC to DCC don't I have to break up the layout into blocks regardless of size of layout. 8' x 3'. Using Kato Unitrack N scale. And planning to use the Digitrax DSC52?, which I already have, in the next two years. Don't want to do DCC if it's going to be complicated. Rather stick with DC in that case. Thought DCC had more advanced complex wiring than DC. Like I said earlier, I don't mind wiring in a Power Bus. That seems simple. Sorry for making this long.
I'm just about to start wiring my Kato DCC setup. what gauge wire do you use for the buss and what size for the feeders? Also - it looks like you use stranded for both - is that right? Thanks!
Hello Mike A question about running the, DC bus wires. I understand how you connect the two wires to the power pak. What do you do to finish off the wires at the end of where you run them ? Thanks in advance. Ray
I am having trouble getting May full layout powered. NCE system with the auto switch for program track. I can only get one feeder and the program track to work. Also my cable is getting very hot. Unit does not get hot. Checked the track voltage and it showed over 2 Any ideas??
Hi. I've been in nscale 20 years, DC, Atlas track. 2020 I am changing to DCC and Kato track. Why do you use isolated joiners after switches?. Is that if there's issues you can issolate spots to figure stuff out? Thanks enjoy your videos
It is one reason as well as it is the easiest way to explain how to wire a layout and be SURE it works. As you know there are exceptions if one chooses.
Hi Mike, thanks for another great video. I have a question for you, if feeder wires should be spaced approximately 3 foot apart or more, how do you handle a yard where there may be a lot of feeder wires in a relatively small space? There is no way to keep the feeder wires at three foot intervals. Any help would be appreciated, Thanks Mike, Fred.
I like the idea of a circuit breaker install in the bus wires like that... may have saved a couple of my bunt out command stations...but I assumer that one could install a inline breaker of fuse an get that same king on results ???
Hello, I was wondering if one DCC system can run a HO layout and a small N layout at the same time? Do I need two DCC systems if i have a N scale embedded in a HO layout? I searched the internet and can't seem to find an answer. Thanks in advance.
Hi Mike, I’m starting my layout going to put a DCC system in the Digitrax Zephyr express system I want to put inline fuses on my bus line not sure what size fuse to use if it’s three amp system do I go higher or do I go lower or just use a three amp fuse thank you Mike for getting back. Hopefully I got it better this time and you can understand what I’m talking about.
Ok here's my problem I want to shut off track in my yards but on dcc you have to have two wires how do you wire a isolated track and what kind of on and off switch do you use thanks
@@N-Scale it could be such a low voltage going to the led light. Have you tried a buzzer from a battery powered toy/game the the game Operation ? Oh, I really like your videos.
question what is the difference between wiring DC and DCC? if you wire your layout for DC and then you want it to upgrade to DCC. what changes would you have to make and order for tomorrow vacation to DCC to work correctly? any insight would be great or a how-to video company dish top it would be awesome again thank you.
There are NO modifications that need to be made. All of your existing feeders would simply go to the DCC bus wire. So simple it would not need a video. Thanks Willy , Mike
hey Mike thank you for the info that what I was thinking. I I am a part of a new Model Railroad Club call Central Kentucky Model Railroad Club in New Haven Kentucky. as the club we are trying to decide which way to go and we are leaning to DC but modifying to TCC later. again thank you might and have a safe day look forward to more video and to check out your shop again thank
Sorry. I am truly new at this. Never built a track or done model railroad track wiring. I am quite familiar with AC and DC circuits. I would appreciate some explanation of the nomenclature. You mentioned blocks, feeders, and bus lines at 2:45. You mention a truck at 14:57. I have a layout that I put together with AnyRail software. So now I have the layout. I want this layout to use the MRC Prodigy wireless system. The MRC system does not come with a transformer. How many feet of track should be powered by how many amps of electricity? Is DCC just a digital signal that sits on top of the electricity like X-10. Do I need isolation blocks for different areas of tack? If I dont need isolation blocks, then should I just use 4 DC transformers and spread them out among the layout to up the amperage? In my layout, I want to have the train to slow down automatically as it approaches a curve, and speed up once the locomotive gets a certain distance past the curve. That is why I thought I need the isolation blocks for. If the locomotive is relying on the DCC signal to tell it to speed up, slow down, or stop, where are the sensors to tell the program to send the signal to the locomotive? If 2 trains both approach the same X crossing, how do you signal one train to stop until the caboose of the other train gets to a certain point beyond the X crossing? I assume that you need sensors and programming for that.
I have the same issue with meaning of words. I wish when people make a video. Just like abbreviations United States of America ( U.S.A. ) . I'm only using that as an example. A word beginners are not aware of the meaning should be explained. Like in golfing the word trap. Sand pit or windmill blade
I recently bought a new Norfolk Western Class J #611 that is DCC Ready. I hooked it to a DC controller but it only runs very slow. I want to remove the DCC completly so it runs just like a locomotive that does not have DCC. How can I do that?
there is a pc speaker that has a red and black wire that connects to the motherboard of a pc, you can use this for the audible speaker in place of the LED(red)
I have a question I want to isolate my sidings and have a on and off switch to turn them off how do you wire it with the two buss wires the toggle switch only has one wire running to it need help thanks
Mike Fifer so you isolate both rails and then wire both rails cause I know on dc you just ran one wire to one rail but on the siding I'll have switches on both end thanks Mike
OK we could do a whole conference on this but the wiring can be the same on DC and DCC. If you are running DCC why would you need to turn off a siding?? Are you doing DC or DCC?? Can you call the shop? Thanks , Mike
I have a 1957 American flyer 313. I'm missing the wires that go from the transformer to the track. What guage should i get and can i get'em at a store or do they have to be a special kinda wire? Thanks.
Ok, i'm about to buy the wires and it's leading me to a couple more questions. Am i supose to get a negitive and positive? And should i buy those fork lookin things to put at the tip of the wires? Thanks.
Hi Mike for my N scale Kato layout I have two main lines with so many feeders running off of each Main Line do I need two terminal blocks for each main line to hook the feeders too because I hook all the feeders to one and I'm losing power I'm currently running DC but I want to set it up so I can use DCC also soon
***** Hello again, I just found out that this circuit breaker doesn't work with my Digitrax Zephyr, due to a lack of power. Do you have any suggestions?
+joe You may have to resort to something like this. www.ncedcc.com/#!online-store/c1n1m/!/CP6-6-Zone-DCC-circuit-protector/p/38322163/category=10026299 or let the Zephyr handle it. Mike
Gee-Zus, Mary, and Joes-Zuf! you are about the nicest MR I have ever seen or heard, Mike. However, you have lost me with the red lights, the green lights, the shorts, etc., and we ain't even got to the live frogs and all that "juicer" stuff, not to mention "stay alive", none of which I understand at all. I got the bus circuit part of your video okay. But, that was about the extent of my comprehension. If there is a downfall to model railroading, it is going to be the fact a lot of us are not electrical engineers, nor computer experts. My only hope is to find somebody close by who understands all this stuff and can explain it to me. Meanwhile, I don't even pretend to know what a "program track" or a "CV" is. I feel hopelessly left behind. And now, everybody is talking about operating their layouts with cell phones. What the heck is that all about????! I'm not going back to the way it was in 1985 either. I'm just leaving the model railroading hobby, unless I can get somebody to explain it to me and get me up to date. I reckon maybe I'm too old for this...........
You could certainly solder one anywhere as with other types of track or you can simply use the 24-818 feeder joiners or a feeder section. fiferhobbysu770.corecommerce.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=12863 fiferhobbysu770.corecommerce.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=12766 Mike
There is a way to keep your drop wires between the bus wires and the rails straight. It is so simple. Everybody has a junk car in their collection that they probably won't run or don't mind using as a tool. In this example let's say you have one bus wire that is black and one that is red. Stick a piece of red tape to one side of the car and black piece to the other side. As you go along installing the drop wires push that car along the track. The color tape on the sides of the car are your simple visual reminder how to wire the track.
Amen on the circuit breakers. I fried 5 decoders and melted one truck on my first 6 DCC sound units and even melted a couple axles on on of my Passenger sets. Definitly always use circuit breakers or an inline fuse they work great too! Thanks Mike for another very informative video!
+sdyoung Thanks Steve, Yep we have all learned our lesson.
Mike
This video will be saved for future reference as I prepare to wire my layout for DCC. One loop for DCC and one for DC so I can run both kinds of trains on my layout. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
+The Shade Tree Fix-it Man Thanks George , Mike
I wish I could post a LINK to a picture that illustrates really well how wire gauge effects your power! Basically (I know a ton of people are probably going to hate this analogy!) think of wire size like water pipe size, the bigger the pipe is the less "pressure" you have in the pipe for "X" amount of flow rate. You have "X" amount of volts pushing a set amount of amps with "X" amount of ohms restricting those amps down the "pipe". When you use too large a gauge of wire you run out of "water pressure" if you will for the volts to push the amps.
Many years ago I bought what I think is the first DCC type control. It was made by the Keller company and was called command control. The only thing I miss about the current DCC systems is a warning if you get a short. The Keller system had a bell in the station that would ring if you goofed and had a short. That was nice as you could turn on the DCC every so often and see if you had a short. And if when running you got a short, it would inform you.
Thank you very much Mike. As usual well explained and I can now wire my new layout in DCC with confidence.
+Glen Williams Thanks so much Glen .
Mike & Robin
Mike you are bang on right on the subject of feeders regarding Kato unitrack. They have unijoiners and they connect better than other inferior track, end of story.
+radioredline88 Thanks , We have had good luck with them for sure.
Mike
Great information and also enjoyable to watch. (First time Watcher here)
I am getting ready soon to install the buss wire and feeders to a fairly large home HO layout with about 400 feet of main line projected.
The full main line is not installed yet, (about 250 feet installed so far) and I would like to get some scenery in where the track is installed and doing the wiring now is a lot easier before scenery goes in.
*
My main concern with the buss wiring on my mountain layout was can my low elevation river line and the high elevation mountain high line share the same buss wire. The river line and high line basically run side by side only at much different heights, (They're about 15" to 20" in height separation).
It looks like they can share the same buss as long the polarity on the feeders is correctly wired to the rails. Otherwise, I would have to run two buss wires side by side to the same location on the bench work (one for the river line and one for the high line) and that seems like a waste of wire.
Any advice is welcome and thanks for doing the video and sharing the information.
Phil
Jersey Shore Area
They can use the same buss. I guess you are doing DCC.
@@N-Scale Yes, that is correct. DCC...Thanks for the reply and information. Appreciated.
Phil
Thankyou for this video, i just bought my first dcc system plus i also saw your video on using dcc and dc together. Its making things a lot easier for me.
+xrayracer1 Thanks Xray , glad to help.
Mike
Glad to help.
Mike
Great video - very reasonable and both "how" and "why" explained. Favorite part: 13:15 "You can see that I've screwed these wires up to the bottom of the Homasote which we're not even gonna GO there..." Don't know what the story is behind that but I'll bet it's a doozy. Thanks again Mike!
Sorry to be off topic but does anybody know a trick to log back into an Instagram account?
I stupidly lost my account password. I would love any tips you can offer me
@Case Leonard Instablaster ;)
@Ayaan Landyn i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and Im in the hacking process now.
Takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Ayaan Landyn it worked and I now got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thank you so much you saved my ass!
@Case Leonard No problem :D
hi Mike love the video I will be doing it in the near future 1 thing that does work when getting the right wire on the same side is get a old box car and paint 1 side red and use it on the track and you would never go wrong
So True and always a great tip. Maybe I will do a video.
Mike
Mike, thank you for another very informative video. I use Kato Unitrack as you do on your home layout. My dcc is NCE.I elected to use a simple power routing switch that allows for power to be sent only to a siding that is the programming track.This is very cost effective and allow me to turn off power to the remainder of the layout and power on to the program track which is a siding connect to the mainline, but insulated by insulated unijoiners. This worked very well for me.Again thank you for all the helpful suggestions.
+Roger G. Perkins Yes , That will work , I just chose to not go there as this was more about the main wiring.
Thanks Roger, Mike
+Mike Fifer , I have opted for the most simple and least expensive methods versus using more electronics to do what I can do by flipping a switch. I understand your point.
Years ago when this system was real new I had a system from Command Controll (have no idea where they went) and it had a buzzer built into the unit. Nice!!!!!
That would be a nice feature for sure.
Mike
I'm using what ive got for my bus wire 18ga with suitcase connectors and zip tie tabs to identify specific runs. Im thinking the red led short warning on top of my of a water tower.
If you look at CAT 5 or CAT 6 you will notice a very tight twist to facilitate high speed data transmission with no signal loss. Same deal.
Hey Mike The train car is cool, I was needing something a little cheaper rite now thanks mike
There is always cleaning by hand with a track cleaning block.
fiferhobbysu770.corecommerce.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=12958
Nice video....I am getting ready to buy buss and feeder wire and also suitcase connectors as soon as I can find a place with decent prices for those items. Thanks and nice looking layout what I could see.....
Good for you. Hope you have fun.
Mike
@@N-Scale Would you know a good place to buy those suitcase connectors in bulk (some call them Scotch Lok connectors). They save a lot of time so no soldering needed of the feeders to the buss wire...Thanks.
@@uptownphotography Sorry , but I do not recommend them and I only solder mine.
Thanks , Mike
I am building a Woodland Scenic N scale kit running a DCC system. The kit comes with 3 switches. It doesn't say whether they are manual or powered switches. The board will be 3ft by 6ft. My question for you: On a small area layout like this, is it necessary to use a bus line around the layout or just one feeder line to the track?
You could likely get by with No Bus !!
Hey Mike How do you figure out how big you build your mountain for n scale. I just don't want to over build the layout 4x8
It is all in the visual effect you want.
Thanks , Mike
This is a very informative video, thank you very much, Already started my layout, but read and watched as much as I could. Allen's site (DCC for Dummies) is something everyone needs to read and keep handy, even if you have built your layout. I got an NCE system w/EB-1 circuit breakers for districts. If a short occurs in the yard, only that area is is affected and not the entire layout. I will watch more of your videos and keep learning, that why this is so much fun. Even if your not a wire Wizard!!!! Will try to post a couple of vids of my Washington Terminal Co. layout and would really like you insight.
Hi Mike. What size bit/hole would you suggest for feeders? I know Woodland Scenic s say for their Just Plug lights, but I can't find anything for Kato.
Question: Should I set my Kato turnouts to power routing or non power routing for DCC. Also, should I put insulated rail joiner on the turnouts? Any help would be great thank you!
I does not mater on the power routing but I would insulat all 4 rails leaving each turnout and re-feed beyond unless on a yard ladder or something similar where the power had to pass through the turnout.
Mike
Perhaps get a "Police car" Cherry and put it on a shelf above your track - visible from anywhere in your train room! Or a red strobe of some kind made for service vehicles. Just a thought!
You can use a piezo buzzer with your led, they're pretty cheap. For Arduino you typically use a 100 ohm resistor with them.
I have no idea.
Thanks , Mike
@@N-Scaleit's the same as wiring that LED. Search piezo buzzer on Amazon.
Nice simple to understand video 👍. I wish Kato made Flex track or at least a rigid 24-30" long straight piece.
ua-cam.com/video/qXXLdEv_dqY/v-deo.html
It really was good timing as I At the wiring design stages of my layout.
+Mark Hopper That sounds fun.
Mike
Do you use insulated rail joiners between blocks
Yes , If you didn't it would not be a block.
Thank you mike
You are welcome
excellent video Mike, great information, video series.
Thanks Jeff , I hope it was useful.
Mike
BarryOlson
Mike I noticed you have a Kato turntable on your layout. Did u or r u going to recess the turntable into your foam?
Great videos. keep them coming.
Thanks Barry, I lifted everything else up to it.
Thanks , Mike
I like the way you show your wiring, I need to know, NEC, or NCE. They have an item that wraps around the wire and clipps over it, So how do you fell about them
+James Baxter I do not care for suitcase connectors and prefer soldering.
Thanks , Mike
Mike. I have watched a number of video on doc wiring. On the diagram you used, are the feeders insulated from one another or the all wired in parallel.
Thanks Mike I found it helpful..thanks for sharing and keep up the great work.. Lance
Thanks Buddy , Mike
Would 16gauge be sufficient for a n scale bus while using Kato's blue and white feeder wires? Planning on make my bus a complete loop just to be be on the safe side. I read that Digitrax dcc system sends out 5amps to the track. Is this enough for approx 20ft of track and 4 locomotives. 1 running and 3 stationary on turnouts? I just don't want keep taking them off and having to put back on the track
Yes it is . 5 amps are only applied if needed not all the time and it would take roughly 75 N Scale engines to draw that much current.
Thanks , Mike
Do not loop Bus wires because the signal/command send from the DCC controller can be cancelled or jammed. in addition the controller works best mid way on a bus line like the diagram shows because of the drop in current per length. So Start in the middle and work out word using thicker gauge wire on the main feed wire than that used to feed the loads to keep power levels balanced though out the layout.
I notice you have a lot of advice but no videos. The bus is not connected in my diagram.
Hi Josh,
Are you saying don’t loop black and red bus wires or ANY bus wires?
@@kjmelcher I would not loop any because DCC sends signal down the Red/Hot line and if the Black/Ground is looped I can see it being possible to get some back feed as well if its looped
When it comes to Phone systems and trying to track a bad lag/pair if the line is looped or cross grounding the signal can repeat or distort making it almost impossible to track damages down to the line over long distances.
I am using Kato track should I place insulated joiners in to create blocks that have a feeder or can I just place a feeder every piece of track that connects to my 12 guage bus wire?
Not knowing you track plan simply follow my instructions.
Thanks , Mike
Mike, question? What guage is kato unitrak feeder wires? Not mentioned in the video also I know you don't like the suitcase connectors . I'm looking to use 3m scotchlock # 905 recommended for I believe 14 to 16 guage bus and a 18 to 22 feeder . You mentioned 24 guage drop feeders. I think using the right ones would be a success 4× 16 layout. Thanks for any feedback.
The Kato feeders are 24 Ga. I think and use the Scotch Locks if you must.
I don't know why people think you need 12 gauge for any model railroad. If memory serves, that will carry 20 amps!!! I also don't think you need any more than 22 gauge wire for feeders every 10-15 feet (3 sections of track). Agree with what you are saying all the way! I never twisted any wire, no issues...
Thanks Kurt , I think folks tend to over think this.
Thanks , Mike
Hey Mike if don't want use the Kato switches what kind of switches and how many poles to wire to.
www.fiferhobby.com/html/how_to_make_kato_turnout_contr.html
Thanks , Mike
Mr Fifer How are you using the Phone wires and connecters ? I've thought of using them for all turnouts and short feeder wires I have several feet of the 50 strand cable and 5 or 6 connection block the 50 size and insert tool also you asked about a BUZZER for detection circuit may look into a lost plane buzzer for model aircraft Thanks Don Mowery
I would not say the DCC circuit breaker will prevent equipment burn up at a switch. They still try to turn power back on during the short and in most cases the wheels are in a spot the may not produce a low resistance short that would trip the breaker. The high resistance short that don't draw enough current to trip the booster or circuit breaker is what melts trucks. The modern DCC circuit breaker isolate sections of the layout so a short does not stop the entire layout and provide for better recovery of sound decoders after a short. Kato #6 switches are the biggest offender of this because of the small distance between the throw rails. Just my opinion of course.
+Roy Maynard I have not burned a loco since I installed the DCC Specialties unit on all Kato track.
Thanks , Mike
And thats a good thing.
+Roy Maynard It sure is. We do however still have trouble at the club with the Digitrax PM42's on 10 blocks there.
Mike
+Mike Fifer Lots of switch settings on the PM42, good luck. I have never burned up a truck on my home layout. Probably because I pay more attention to the trains then the people running at our club layout. You are right about an alarm to let people know there is a short.
I'm getting ready to build a home layout with 2 main lines and a single mountain line and am planning to use a common negative on each seperate line to simplify my wiring. Does that matter if I decide to go DCC in the future? Or should I just put the insulated joiners on both rails of the lines? I can't seem to find an answer anywhere
I would NEVER use common wire. Do blocks as you normally would.
Mike
Great video Mike, this will help out a lot as we are building my kids a layout as we speak. I do have a few questions on the wiring tho and even more so as you have been a comms guy before. I noticed that the Kato feeders are 24AWG wire, could one use Cat5 or Cat6 wire (believe it’s 22AWG) for the feeder drops soldered to the Kato Unijoiners? And as our layout is only 6’x4’ with an add on yard that is separate (meaning we can remove it from the layout if we don’t want to use it), can we use 18AWG thermostat wiring for the Buss wire? Or does all the wiring have to be high voltage and not low voltage? All the wiring would be solid core and soldered to one another. Thanks
All the mentioned wire will work .
Thanks , Mike
Thank you Mike,nice how to video
Thanks Jeff, Hope it helps.
Happy New Year
Mike & Robin
Im planning a layout in DC. I don't know what people consider small. It will be on a 8'L x 3' W tabletop. To me that's small. Would this really need to be put into blocks? Hoping this will be a simple hobby. Don't mind wiring up the power bus or feeders. Just like this to be simple to build.
No , No blocks
Trying not to annoy, but if I switch from DC to DCC don't I have to break up the layout into blocks regardless of size of layout. 8' x 3'. Using Kato Unitrack N scale. And planning to use the Digitrax DSC52?, which I already have, in the next two years. Don't want to do DCC if it's going to be complicated. Rather stick with DC in that case. Thought DCC had more advanced complex wiring than DC. Like I said earlier, I don't mind wiring in a Power Bus. That seems simple. Sorry for making this long.
@@kennethhickman4583 I mis-read and DCC is easier to wire but installing decoders makes it harder if you can not install them in Locos
I'm just about to start wiring my Kato DCC setup. what gauge wire do you use for the buss and what size for the feeders? Also - it looks like you use stranded for both - is that right? Thanks!
I would use 14 Gauge house wire for the buss and 24 stranded for the feeders or simply the Kato wire
@@N-Scale Perfect! Thanks Mike.
Hello Mike
A question about running the, DC bus wires. I understand how you connect the two wires to the power pak. What do you do to finish off the wires at the end of where you run them ?
Thanks in advance.
Ray
Nothing , they just remain open at the ends.
Thanks , Mike
@@N-Scale
Thank you Mike
Great information!
+Mark Hopper Thank You Mark , I hope it helps.
Mike
Would you be able to use speaker wire as a bus line?
I suppose you could.
Mike
Awesome, thanks!
I am having trouble getting May full layout powered. NCE system with the auto switch for program track. I can only get one feeder and the program track to work. Also my cable is getting very hot. Unit does not get hot. Checked the track voltage and it showed over 2 Any ideas??
What cable is getting hot???
@@N-Scale the main cable plugged in on the left side to the unit
@@andrewlott5880 Are you talking about the turnout????
Hi. I've been in nscale 20 years, DC, Atlas track. 2020 I am changing to DCC and Kato track. Why do you use isolated joiners after switches?. Is that if there's issues you can issolate spots to figure stuff out? Thanks enjoy your videos
It is one reason as well as it is the easiest way to explain how to wire a layout and be SURE it works. As you know there are exceptions if one chooses.
Hi Mike, thanks for another great video. I have a question for you, if feeder wires should be spaced approximately 3 foot apart or more, how do you handle a yard where there may be a lot of feeder wires in a relatively small space? There is no way to keep the feeder wires at three foot intervals. Any help would be appreciated, Thanks Mike, Fred.
+Fred Cordini There is no problems with them with less footage but only more footage.
Thanks , Mike
I like the idea of a circuit breaker install in the bus wires like that... may have saved a couple of my bunt out command stations...but I assumer that one could install a inline breaker of fuse an get that same king on results ???
Yes you sure could. Mike
Hello, I was wondering if one DCC system can run a HO layout and a small N layout at the same time? Do I need two DCC systems if i have a N scale embedded in a HO layout? I searched the internet and can't seem to find an answer. Thanks in advance.
I would guess you should be able to do it as DCC does not care about size but rather the power it has to put out.
Mike
What size in line fuse would you use on a n scale layout
Not sure what you are referring to
Hi Mike, I’m starting my layout going to put a DCC system in the Digitrax Zephyr express system I want to put inline fuses on my bus line not sure what size fuse to use if it’s three amp system do I go higher or do I go lower or just use a three amp fuse thank you Mike for getting back. Hopefully I got it better this time and you can understand what I’m talking about.
Ok here's my problem I want to shut off track in my yards but on dcc you have to have two wires how do you wire a isolated track and what kind of on and off switch do you use thanks
You would need a double pole double throw switch and run both sides through the switch.
Thanks , Mike
Mike Fifer thanks Mike
Do get that at Hobby shop?
Hey Mike do you need a feeder wire on each track. it's Kato layout.
My layout and the club use one about every ten feet.
Thanks , Mike
Perfect !!!!!
Thanks , Mike
Hello, I see you are using 25pair for your bus. Could i use Cat5(4pair) as a bus feed?
Thanks
That bus is only for low voltage , such as lighting . The main bus is about 10 gauge bridal wire.
Thanks , Mike
For sound on the dcc breaker, how about a back up buzzer that you would put on a car?
I tried many buzzers and was never successful at getting one to work.
Thanks , Mike
@@N-Scale it could be such a low voltage going to the led light. Have you tried a buzzer from a battery powered toy/game the the game Operation ? Oh, I really like your videos.
@@lordverdan2826 I have not and given up on the idea
I have got a V7doublecrossover track set do l have to use insulated joiners
Are you using DC or DCC? And in insulators where? or please call the shop.
Thanks , Mike
Hey Mike what could I use to fasten my Kato track to foam board .
We used dabs of silicone on the nail posts underneath.
Mike
Great video! Do you have your layout separated into power districts?
No , all on one unit.
Thanks , Mike
question what is the difference between wiring DC and DCC? if you wire your layout for DC and then you want it to upgrade to DCC. what changes would you have to make and order for tomorrow vacation to DCC to work correctly? any insight would be great or a how-to video company dish top it would be awesome again thank you.
There are NO modifications that need to be made. All of your existing feeders would simply go to the DCC bus wire.
So simple it would not need a video.
Thanks Willy , Mike
hey Mike thank you for the info that what I was thinking. I I am a part of a new Model Railroad Club call Central Kentucky Model Railroad Club in New Haven Kentucky. as the club we are trying to decide which way to go and we are leaning to DC but modifying to TCC later. again thank you might and have a safe day look forward to more video and to check out your shop again thank
Thanks , No problem.
Mike
How often do we need to repower a track at longer track length?
I only feed every 10 ft or so.
Mike
Sorry. I am truly new at this. Never built a track or done model railroad track wiring. I am quite familiar with AC and DC circuits.
I would appreciate some explanation of the nomenclature. You mentioned blocks, feeders, and bus lines at 2:45.
You mention a truck at 14:57.
I have a layout that I put together with AnyRail software. So now I have the layout.
I want this layout to use the MRC Prodigy wireless system. The MRC system does not come with a transformer.
How many feet of track should be powered by how many amps of electricity?
Is DCC just a digital signal that sits on top of the electricity like X-10.
Do I need isolation blocks for different areas of tack?
If I dont need isolation blocks, then should I just use 4 DC transformers and spread them out among the layout to up the amperage?
In my layout, I want to have the train to slow down automatically as it approaches a curve, and speed up once the locomotive gets a certain distance past the curve. That is why I thought I need the isolation blocks for.
If the locomotive is relying on the DCC signal to tell it to speed up, slow down, or stop, where are the sensors to tell the program to send the signal to the locomotive?
If 2 trains both approach the same X crossing, how do you signal one train to stop until the caboose of the other train gets to a certain point beyond the X crossing?
I assume that you need sensors and programming for that.
This is way to much to answer here. Can you call the shop Tech Line?
Thanks , mike
I have the same issue with meaning of words. I wish when people make a video. Just like abbreviations United States of America ( U.S.A. ) . I'm only using that as an example. A word beginners are not aware of the meaning should be explained. Like in golfing the word trap. Sand pit or windmill blade
I recently bought a new Norfolk Western Class J #611 that is DCC Ready. I hooked it to a DC controller but it only runs very slow. I want to remove the DCC completly so it runs just like a locomotive that does not have DCC. How can I do that?
Doing that will not help that engine.
Thanks , Mike
@@N-Scale Is there something I can do to make it run better? Thanks
@@MikesTrainsandTravels Nope , it is a Bachmann.
Sorry , Mike
great video thank you
Thanks so much for taking a look.
Mike
there is a pc speaker that has a red and black wire that connects to the motherboard of a pc, you can use this for the audible speaker in place of the LED(red)
I tried that but it didn't seem to work.
Thanks , Mike
did you try reversing the polarity? its a simple alarm speaker, runs either 3 or 5 volt i believe
I don't remember but polarity on a speaker should not mater.
Thanks , Mike
Where do join insulated joiners to a double track Kato
I am sorry , I do not understand the question.
Mike
I have a question I want to isolate my sidings and have a on and off switch to turn them off how do you wire it with the two buss wires the toggle switch only has one wire running to it need help thanks
I would use a DPDT switch and ditch the single poles, the isolate both sides of the tracks in question.
Thanks , Mike
Mike Fifer so you isolate both rails and then wire both rails cause I know on dc you just ran one wire to one rail but on the siding I'll have switches on both end thanks Mike
What you are taking about in DC is called common rail wiring. I have never liked it nor supported it .
Thanks , Mike
Mike Fifer so on dcc you wire the siding the same as the main line but isolated and through a double throw
OK we could do a whole conference on this but the wiring can be the same on DC and DCC. If you are running DCC why would you need to turn off a siding?? Are you doing DC or DCC??
Can you call the shop?
Thanks , Mike
I have a 1957 American flyer 313. I'm missing the wires that go from the transformer to the track. What guage should i get and can i get'em at a store or do they have to be a special kinda wire? Thanks.
Any wire will do, nothing special.
Thanks , Mike
Ok, cool, thank you :)
Oh, one more question: What guage wire should i use?
24 gauge or up.
Mike
Ok, i'm about to buy the wires and it's leading me to a couple more questions. Am i supose to get a negitive and positive? And should i buy those fork lookin things to put at the tip of the wires? Thanks.
Hey Mike What can I use to clean rails on Kato track
I use the CMX cleaning car now.
Thanks , Mike
Do you get that at Hobby shop?
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Thanks , Mike
Where is your Hobby Shop located?
Las Cruces New Mexico.
Thanks , Mike
What's a bus wire and do I need it ?
Harry Gem yes, it's basically wires that runs around your layout to supply everything on your layout power
what board were u using ?
+Skip Duld What do you mean , what board???
Mike
Hi Mike for my N scale Kato layout I have two main lines with so many feeders running off of each Main Line do I need two terminal blocks for each main line to hook the feeders too because I hook all the feeders to one and I'm losing power I'm currently running DC but I want to set it up so I can use DCC also soon
You would need a single BUS line around the layout and tap the feeders into that.
Mike
Thanks mike
What's the name of the circuit breaker, and where can I buy one?
+joe DCC Specialties On Guard and it is only rated to 4 amps.
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Thanks , Mike
***** Thank you, I'll check it up.
***** Hello again, I just found out that
this circuit breaker doesn't work with my
Digitrax Zephyr, due to a lack of power.
Do you have any suggestions?
+joe You may have to resort to something like this.
www.ncedcc.com/#!online-store/c1n1m/!/CP6-6-Zone-DCC-circuit-protector/p/38322163/category=10026299
or let the Zephyr handle it.
Mike
***** thaks for your help.
Gee-Zus, Mary, and Joes-Zuf! you are about the nicest MR I have ever seen or heard, Mike. However, you have lost me with the red lights, the green lights, the shorts, etc., and we ain't even got to the live frogs and all that "juicer" stuff, not to mention "stay alive", none of which I understand at all. I got the bus circuit part of your video okay. But, that was about the extent of my comprehension.
If there is a downfall to model railroading, it is going to be the fact a lot of us are not electrical engineers, nor computer experts. My only hope is to find somebody close by who understands all this stuff and can explain it to me. Meanwhile, I don't even pretend to know what a "program track" or a "CV" is. I feel hopelessly left behind. And now, everybody is talking about operating their layouts with cell phones. What the heck is that all about????!
I'm not going back to the way it was in 1985 either. I'm just leaving the model railroading hobby, unless I can get somebody to explain it to me and get me up to date.
I reckon maybe I'm too old for this...........
It will take some studying on your part for sure.
Mike
Mike I have the same issue. But a quick explanation of what it does would help. Then we can follow and do research for the complete meaning.
please turn your mic volume up going forward. thank you.
Hey Mike Where on the Kato track can I install a feeder wire or how install feeder wire
You could certainly solder one anywhere as with other types of track or you can simply use the 24-818 feeder joiners or a feeder section.
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Mike