Absolutely it can catch fire. I personally witnessed a breaker turned black and covered in soot from the two wires arcing intermittently. Pigtails aren't allowed so you have to split the circuit in a junction box, next to the panel, if there isn't enough room for more breakers..
What if you placed the two wires into a dual-feed ferrule (properly sized for the wire gauge), crimped it using a ferrule crimper, tug test, and then insert the crimped ferrule end into the breaker?
I have an old home. My bedroom, bathroom and kitchen (not the range thankfully) are all on the same circuit. It trips if we use any combination of space heater in the bedroom, hair dryer in bathroom, coffee maker or microwave in kitchen. I realize microwave should have a dedicated circuit and can deal with that down the road. Obviously I'll check code, but functionally speaking if I have an open breaker spot am I to understand that I just get another breaker and do this pigtail deal and "split" the circuit I should then in theory be able to safely operate at least two of my aforementioned appliances simultaneously and safely?
Question ? Hope you can help. I have 3 outlets, 2 on one breaker, and 1 on another. I'm trying to hook my wires up to a generator box. My question is, can I connect the 2 wires together and keep them on the same breaker box as they are and run a pig tail to the generator box ? Thank you
@streetfit909 can I take 2 trip breaker fuse wires? connect them together with a pig tail wire and then connect each one individually to a generator wire so they would run on the same generator fuse.
Nice video. I have a question that is kind of on topic. Why do some panels have a quad main breaker and (most) others only have a double? I get a double is to control both phases of a panel. Why would you then need a quad breaker? Sorry, but I just spent about about 20 minutes trying to find a video explaining this to no avail. Thanks in advance for your answer.
incorrect, the double tapped breaker is better because the wires are loaded from their own circuit , the remedy shown that combines the wire and a single tail termination is actually more dangerous as wirenuts are one more point of failures and loose connection. AHJ will flag the single tail and revert to double tapped
I seem to be having an issue running a mini fridge in an upstairs bedroom. It tends to make lights flicker & surge some things a bit when the compressor turns on every now & then. Could splitting the breakers solve this problem? or should I just replace the outlet its hooked up to? I made sure it has its own outlet since its kindof a large appliance. The two rooms next to one another are on the same breaker line(dumb design IMO) so I figure it would midigate this issue.
@@Glocko44 A mini fridge does not need it's own dedicated 20 amp circuit. lol They run around 7 amps, far less than a space heater on high which is 12.5. Just make sure you're not overloading the circuit, if you're on a 15 amp circuit and you're already putting 10 on it, the mini fridge added to it will overload it. If not, great. Simple.
@@LostBeetle Remember that by code a 15 amp circuit has a maximum allowable load of 12 amps [Section 210.21 (B)(2)]. If you have a 15 amp bedroom circuit and add a 7 amp appliance onto it, you are leaving 5 allowable amps for a whole bedroom and whatever other room is on that circuit which is completely unacceptable. Will it work? Sure it will. Is it right? No. You may not even trip a breaker depending on what is plugged in, but again that does not make it acceptable. Now if it was a dedicated 15A that would also work because you have 5 extra amps and no other rooms would be tied to it and pulling from it, but if someone is going to go through the trouble of running a dedicated line up there it makes sense to just make it a 20 instead of 15 so there is room to add a larger appliance in the future if necessary etc.
Perfectly acceptable for anything that doesn't run continuously (over three hours I think) at 80% capacity and above. A fridge does not run this long at all, not even close. The only high draw appliance you plug into a standard outlet that would run that long I can think of are space heaters, and most of them have a thermostat so you can set them to not run continuously. Also, apparently 12 and 14 awg can actually handle 5 amps above what they are rated for, and I read some countries do give them their true ratings. An extra safety layer is giving 12 awg 15 amp breakers and there's not a chance you're ever overloading them now. And breakers don't pop as soon as you overload them a little, they can allow for sometimes hours and will pop if the temperature exceeds the limit, this is because wires don't just spontaneously combust when you go over their ratings a little (still avoid it!). The codes are meant to add many layers of fail safes before relying on the final fail safe (the breaker), which is in theory a good idea as most people take electric for granted and only know they overloaded something when they start popping breakers. And even they have that 5 amp fail safe by giving wires ratings that are 5 amps under their true limit.
Hey, you guys can read the cue cards, I see. :) Now, 'not a proper physical connection' isn't as crucial as 'the circuit is overloaded,' especially in older constructions where limited space or an inadequate service rating leads to double-tapped circuits. I want to see you explore how to check for overloads and discuss cost-effective ways to distribute the load. (not just SEO for "Double Tapped Circuit Breaker" and put up some lame video to get more views.) Speaking of double tapped "break-er" and distributing the load for a proper physical connection... ;)
Wire splicing and pigtailing are allowed in a breaker panel and expressly permitted by NEC 312.8 (A). So your jurisdiction is overly strict or makes up their own guidlines.
Wow! This is what I think I came to UA-cam to find. I have this mess of a service panel. On one breaker I have way too many receptacles going to one breaker. Not everything is on at the same time but its very easy for over 80% to load that breaker. There are other breakers in this panel that have no serviced receptacles. So there are breakers with nothing attached. How could I split up this breaker that has too much on it with a breaker that has nothing.
In Section 110.14 (B), which looks at splices for electrical connections, the NEC states that conductors should be joined or spliced using “splicing devices identified for the use”. Wire nuts qualify as one of these splicing devices. Therefore, using wire nuts is allowed by the NEC!
That must add a lot of cost to jobs; very common to see splices in panels in the US. Is there evidence or rationale that splices in panels are safety hazards?
Whaaat??? A 15 amp breaker will trip if overladed regardless of how many circuits will be added to it... no fire whatsoever... oh... because of loose wire hmmmmmm.... and pigtail allowed.
Not no but hell no, you're not allowed to make a joint in a panel, Hence the word PANEL not J-Box Read your code book I think ya'll need to back up and punt. I also think Schneider needs to redesign their breakers, double lugging is a dangerous situation. If you have two circuits on a 20 ampere breaker because of the way it is manufactured does that just automatically make the breaker now a 40 ampere breaker. I don't think so. There are too many electricians that would put two circuits in that breaker knowing they are two different circuits, then later say " Well they said you could put two wires in one breaker. They are not piggy back breakers. Dang does a snake have to bite you before you realize it's a snake then say, " I guess they were right it really was a snake."
Why do these videos always assume there is another circuit breaker available?
Fun Fact, the panel behind them is Square D and Square D breakers are UL listed for dual wires.
That's hilarious
Absolutely it can catch fire. I personally witnessed a breaker turned black and covered in soot from the two wires arcing intermittently. Pigtails aren't allowed so you have to split the circuit in a junction box, next to the panel, if there isn't enough room for more breakers..
Some areas allow tandem breakers, which is what I assumed they would do in this video.
Why arent pigtails allowed?
those two wires won't arc to each other, they're on the same live line.. unless one isn't even connected.
Pigtails are actually allowed. readup
Some Square D Homeline circuit breakers are made for double tapping If the code in that area allows it and if the correct wires are used.
What if you placed the two wires into a dual-feed ferrule (properly sized for the wire gauge), crimped it using a ferrule crimper, tug test, and then insert the crimped ferrule end into the breaker?
Finding a good sparky is the hardest part of every build I’ve been on.
I have an old home. My bedroom, bathroom and kitchen (not the range thankfully) are all on the same circuit. It trips if we use any combination of space heater in the bedroom, hair dryer in bathroom, coffee maker or microwave in kitchen. I realize microwave should have a dedicated circuit and can deal with that down the road. Obviously I'll check code, but functionally speaking if I have an open breaker spot am I to understand that I just get another breaker and do this pigtail deal and "split" the circuit I should then in theory be able to safely operate at least two of my aforementioned appliances simultaneously and safely?
Question ? Hope you can help. I have 3 outlets, 2 on one breaker, and 1 on another. I'm trying to hook my wires up to a generator box. My question is, can I connect the 2 wires together and keep them on the same breaker box as they are and run a pig tail to the generator box ? Thank you
There's really very little information to go on in your question.
@streetfit909 can I take 2 trip breaker fuse wires? connect them together with a pig tail wire and then connect each one individually to a generator wire so they would run on the same generator fuse.
1:29 proper identification
I woudl think a screw down of two wires on the breaker would be better connection than using a wire nut but hey, I'm not an inspector so.
This was a great video! Thank you!
Is it allowed to use Wago connectors in the breaker box?
I have the same WAGO question
Yep
How does this work with a ring main where the wire goes in a circle and back to the breaker
Nice video. I have a question that is kind of on topic. Why do some panels have a quad main breaker and (most) others only have a double? I get a double is to control both phases of a panel. Why would you then need a quad breaker? Sorry, but I just spent about about 20 minutes trying to find a video explaining this to no avail. Thanks in advance for your answer.
Thanks!! Needed to see this!
incorrect, the double tapped breaker is better because the wires are loaded from their own circuit , the remedy shown that combines the wire and a single tail termination is actually more dangerous as wirenuts are one more point of failures and loose connection.
AHJ will flag the single tail and revert to double tapped
What jurisdiction? Not true in my part of the pnw
THANK YOU!!!! thank you thank you so
Much for this video
Thanks a lot Mam and Sir!
I seem to be having an issue running a mini fridge in an upstairs bedroom. It tends to make lights flicker & surge some things a bit when the compressor turns on every now & then. Could splitting the breakers solve this problem? or should I just replace the outlet its hooked up to? I made sure it has its own outlet since its kindof a large appliance. The two rooms next to one another are on the same breaker line(dumb design IMO) so I figure it would midigate this issue.
It should have its own outlet on a dedicated 20 amp circuit, without anything else.
Lmfao is this comedy channel????
@@Glocko44 A mini fridge does not need it's own dedicated 20 amp circuit. lol
They run around 7 amps, far less than a space heater on high which is 12.5. Just make sure you're not overloading the circuit, if you're on a 15 amp circuit and you're already putting 10 on it, the mini fridge added to it will overload it. If not, great. Simple.
@@LostBeetle Remember that by code a 15 amp circuit has a maximum allowable load of 12 amps [Section 210.21 (B)(2)]. If you have a 15 amp bedroom circuit and add a 7 amp appliance onto it, you are leaving 5 allowable amps for a whole bedroom and whatever other room is on that circuit which is completely unacceptable. Will it work? Sure it will. Is it right? No. You may not even trip a breaker depending on what is plugged in, but again that does not make it acceptable. Now if it was a dedicated 15A that would also work because you have 5 extra amps and no other rooms would be tied to it and pulling from it, but if someone is going to go through the trouble of running a dedicated line up there it makes sense to just make it a 20 instead of 15 so there is room to add a larger appliance in the future if necessary etc.
Perfectly acceptable for anything that doesn't run continuously (over three hours I think) at 80% capacity and above. A fridge does not run this long at all, not even close. The only high draw appliance you plug into a standard outlet that would run that long I can think of are space heaters, and most of them have a thermostat so you can set them to not run continuously. Also, apparently 12 and 14 awg can actually handle 5 amps above what they are rated for, and I read some countries do give them their true ratings. An extra safety layer is giving 12 awg 15 amp breakers and there's not a chance you're ever overloading them now.
And breakers don't pop as soon as you overload them a little, they can allow for sometimes hours and will pop if the temperature exceeds the limit, this is because wires don't just spontaneously combust when you go over their ratings a little (still avoid it!). The codes are meant to add many layers of fail safes before relying on the final fail safe (the breaker), which is in theory a good idea as most people take electric for granted and only know they overloaded something when they start popping breakers. And even they have that 5 amp fail safe by giving wires ratings that are 5 amps under their true limit.
0:54 ask your local inspector having jurisdiction he knows whats burned in the past and he has final say so
This solves my problem, thank you for this short and precise video. Question, is it applicable for a 220v breaker connection as well?
Hey, you guys can read the cue cards, I see. :) Now, 'not a proper physical connection' isn't as crucial as 'the circuit is overloaded,' especially in older constructions where limited space or an inadequate service rating leads to double-tapped circuits. I want to see you explore how to check for overloads and discuss cost-effective ways to distribute the load. (not just SEO for "Double Tapped Circuit Breaker" and put up some lame video to get more views.) Speaking of double tapped "break-er" and distributing the load for a proper physical connection... ;)
,1:31 youd fail inspection where my juridiction was. You better ask the inspector if wire nuts are allowed in the panel
Wire splicing and pigtailing are allowed in a breaker panel and expressly permitted by NEC 312.8 (A). So your jurisdiction is overly strict or makes up their own guidlines.
Wow! This is what I think I came to UA-cam to find.
I have this mess of a service panel. On one breaker I have way too many receptacles going to one breaker. Not everything is on at the same time but its very easy for over 80% to load that breaker. There are other breakers in this panel that have no serviced receptacles. So there are breakers with nothing attached. How could I split up this breaker that has too much on it with a breaker that has nothing.
Thank you
Oooh, a strong empowered woman.
No wirenuts allowed in elect panels
Code pliss you're sure
In Section 110.14 (B), which looks at splices for electrical connections, the NEC states that conductors should be joined or spliced using “splicing devices identified for the use”. Wire nuts qualify as one of these splicing devices. Therefore, using wire nuts is allowed by the NEC!
unless your in canada they have thier own rules.
@@allotherstaken3 NEC is wrong
She looks like she's fully capable of being double or even triple tapped.
Capable or not, she Needs it!
Except its against code to pigtail in a panel in canada..
Then pigtail in a junction box
In the US you can if you meet certain conditions.
Electricity doesn’t care what country it’s in.
That must add a lot of cost to jobs; very common to see splices in panels in the US. Is there evidence or rationale that splices in panels are safety hazards?
Tell that to Mexico
Lol “assuming that’s all that is wrong”
Whaaat??? A 15 amp breaker will trip if overladed regardless of how many circuits will be added to it... no fire whatsoever... oh... because of loose wire hmmmmmm.... and pigtail allowed.
She has some RBF.
Not no but hell no, you're not allowed to make a joint in a panel, Hence the word PANEL not J-Box Read your code book I think ya'll need to back up and punt. I also think Schneider needs to redesign their breakers, double lugging is a dangerous situation. If you have two circuits on a 20 ampere breaker because of the way it is manufactured does that just automatically make the breaker now a 40 ampere breaker. I don't think so. There are too many electricians that would put two circuits in that breaker knowing they are two different circuits, then later say " Well they said you could put two wires in one breaker. They are not piggy back breakers. Dang does a snake have to bite you before you realize it's a snake then say, " I guess they were right it really was a snake."
NEC nor the CEC permits splicing of any kind in a service panel (main or sub)
Do it right, and do it safely.
I double tap all my breakers
Be safe get a trained electrician you can be killed or kill a family member by not knowing what your doing just because it works don’t mean it’s right