What Visual Novels & Indie Comics Can Learn From Each Other
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
- In this video I discuss why Japanese visual novels and American indie comics could benefit from a bit of international cross-pollination.
Other videos by me:
The Grandfather Paradox--A Visual Short Story: • The Grandfather Parado...
4 Time-Saving Tips (from a guy who spent 13 YEARS drawing a comic): • 4 Time-Saving Tips (fr...
Please let me know what you think, either in the comment section or on Twitter: / larsmartinson - Розваги
There are so many Western made visual novels that play with or even abandon entirely the anime aesthetic, like Cinders.
And it was an extremely beautiful game.
not even,i would apply the novel as some sort of diff genre.
Can you name some more? I would really like to play some not in anime style
@@emircalvin669 Dream Daddy and Monster Prom are the popular examples
@@emircalvin669 Changeling, if you don't mind a paid game.
I think particularly on UA-cam, the asset-based presentation method (a cartoon host has expressions w/ voice over) has been pretty pervasive.
I don't know of too many other comics that combine the two like you mentioned, but Homestuck is a pretty obvious example of combining the asset-based visual novel method with a western art style. The game Undertale also did this in a unique way.
I was familiar with Undertale (haven't played it yet) but not Homestruck. I'll give it a look!
It's definitely a unique experience.
Despite it's crude art, it's one of the only examples, of an artist pushing the comics medium, into unexplored territory.
you may not be up for reading it through, as it is longer than Ulysses.
Heres a good review of the Authors methods, and how they evolved.
medium.com/@bbctol/homestuck-in-review-the-internets-first-masterpiece-989a84548767
Hussies methods, are one of my own inspirations.
OH GOD WHAT HAVE YOU DONE
LARS IS GONNA TRY HOMESTUCK NOW
i know im asking the wrong place but does someone know of a method to log back into an instagram account..?
I was stupid lost my login password. I would appreciate any help you can offer me
@Kason Antonio i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out now.
I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
Homestuck, I hope you see this and look it up, if you haven't read it definitely give it a shot.
It's a webcomic that uses all the media assets visual novels do, heck sometimes you click next page and it's a flash game you play through, walk around the setting and talk to people. It reuses art when possible and (during the hayday) came out very quickly as a result. But is INSANLY dense with a wide variety of settings, ideas, plottwists, multiple characters you see the perspective of, and so many more crazy things you've never seen in anything else.
The community is kinda divided on the final act, but I'll just let you decide that for yourself.
Game like the original Ace Attorney trilogy are a good example of a hybrid between the two genres.
Yes, basically
I know you talked mostly about implementing sound, music and limited use of images for comics (which sounds an awful lot like homestuck tbh), but in comics, I think you can save a ton of time if you know when to cut off the backgrounds and focus on close ups, backgrounds disappearing for emotional effect and such. It's all about pacing/what will work with which scene, really.
Also sometimes it’s enough to just imply a background, do an establishing shot and then draw like one thing and a wall to maintain a sense of space. Most of the background ends up covered by a text bubble anyway and your reader is smarter and more creative than you give them credit for, they can imagine the rest of the scenery on their own.
@@handsoaphandsoap One thing I think Umineko does pretty well, and I'm not sure if that's the case, is a water-colour filter on top of a real life image. Even if it isn't what Ryukishi really did, I can imagine taking a picture of some place and just applying that filter to cut the distinction between reality and fiction would save you lots of time, and won't sacrifice the reader's immersion.
And then flash gets canned and most low information audience members will never be able to experience your art as it was intended. That's why this video is extremely miopic. Art is eternal beauty, captured, and preserved, for posterity. You don't add in all these external dependencies. When I execute the file, the entire art should be completely agnostic to what hardware or software runs it. It must be completely self contained or you have wasted your time.
I believe that all VNs are de facto videogames, and as such, any person who wants to create a good VN needs to understand at least basics of game design. I mean - you mention that cartoonists need to utilize their digital medium better, but if all your VNs will be non-interactive kinetic novels, then you're not exactly utilizing your medium to its fullest either, right?
I mean, consider that visual novels can span basically any degree of interactivity between "basically a still comic" (like Narcissu) to "basically a fully interactive adventure game" (like Ace Attorney). One could probably make a case that modern narrative-driven adventure games like Walking Dead and Life is Strange are pretty similar to visual novels in many respects. Interactivity and choices are powerful tools one can use for telling stories, and evoking emotions in your players/
night in the woods is a good visual novel :D
I think you misunderstood his explanation.
Game?
Night in the woods might be above visual novel. Its more like a game
okay okay, you guys are right. NITW is a visual novel with minigames. :)
!!!!
This video was in my recommendations because I've been researching carefully on how to properly to a webcomic, but I've been scared because the length of the story is probably gonna take me 13 years if I'm not careful.
But the idea to make it a visual novel because of this video popped up and oh my God I think you just saved me years while I can still tell this story how I want to.
Thank you thank you thank you. I'll be sure to check out your grandfather paradox video too!
Also definitely subscribing.
Based on what you are talking about I have six words for you
“Let me tell you about Homestuck”
(Note this one still took eight years to make but it had almost everything you mentioned)
Thinking same thing here.
Yeah, Homestuck is an incredibly popular hypercomic. I can understand if he happened to miss it by dropping out of the universe for 15 years to write his own comic. I'm not really sure how he managed to miss the literally hundreds of other hypercomics that preceded Homestuck, considering he's an indie comics guy.
True but it took so long mainly because of just how long it is. If it'd have been a more traditional novel length and story it could probably have been done within a few months, maybe a year.
Thought the exact thing
The real problem is that PC games aren't very popular in Japan, so visual novel developers try to maximize sales in an already niche market. However, this might change because of the western indie game market - both thanks to more experimental western VNs like DDLC, or thanks to Japanese devs embracing western audiences who love PC games, expanding VN market.
too bad the best vn writers don't like english fans
For 7 years I'm working on that one comic and to finish it I probably need another 3-4 years. The numbers are shocking for me. I stumbled over the visual novel maker software. It has sounds and a lot of anime-like backgrounds also it works with live2d. I'm all excited to make a lot of my shortstories into a mini game. I counted and planned everything. It's so much less work and I can do it besides of my comic . Still there's also new stuff to learn about game mechanics. I'm glad, for this video. I wish I would've found earlier.
Cool idea! I've been thinking of ways to make webcomicking interesting again for me and one track I'm on, is to use more webtechnology (I'm a front-end developer by day). Those visual novels aspects look interesting to build in html & js. I might explore that when I find some time during the holidays.
There's actually an visual novel engine based on html5 and javascript called Tyranoscript: evanburchard.github.io/tyranoscript/
tyranobuilder.com/
I played around with it for a bit before. Seems okay. Might be a good jumping off point!
I really wish you kept making this wonderful kinds of videos,giving advices and such
Prequel, Homestuck, and Peaches are all digital comics that employ one or more of the visual novel features you mention. Homestuck & Prequel are special cases where they were born from thd midst of MSPaint webcomics, which feature large amounts of intergrating different medium like music, sound, animation, etc. all based on a format that combines traditional plain text and the previously mentioned material. I haven't found any other webcomics that implement this to the same degree of these particular webcomics, and this video makes me want to go out and search for more.
Avas demon too
Watching your video inspired me to make visual novels and go indie about it! You are right that this medium has a lot of potential yet to be explored in the west!
I’m really looking forward to see what you produce in the next few mouths, I love your way of story telling. :))
2:38 hell yeah, Steins;Gate
Recently there have been a few apps that allow you to read webcomics on your phone. Quite a few comics on webtoon do use music.
my god, i was doing my thesis about comics and this can help me a lot, thank you man!!!
I feel enlightened. 0.0
Yeah, I never REALLY considered making a visual novel without the romance or with a surreal tone. And I love surreal stuff! I mean, I'm not going to scrap my current project just because of this realization but I'll make sure to keep your words in mind if I ever get to make a visual novel with an actual budget. Thanks! :D
I'll join your movement. I had been wanting to start a comic book for a long time but it's been such an overwhelming project, and watching your videos and hearing your advice it's made me reconsider my medium. Maybe I should do a visual novel instead?
Except for webtoons, which are comics that have a scroll-favorable orientation, and are focused mostly on the flow up-and down, rather than left to right, except for the speech bubbles.
This has talked me into a decision I've been toying with for a month to change my approach to my webcomic. I thank you for this video.
I would say a point and click adventure game is the western equivalent to visual novels. They bring interactive elements of games to otherwise linar stories. This allows you to have a set amount of drawing and artwork done without it taking you years more than three to create. It can get a little program heavy but the results are worth it. The ones I would check out are by Wadjet Eye Games such as golden wake and the Blackwell Legacy
Thank you, I enjoyed this essay.
I had an idea once where the transition from each "panel" to "panel", which is more like a still frame rather than being a box with content in it, is sort of a fluid animation. So for instance, you could have two characters fighting, and each "panel" is their weapons clashing while they strike different combat poses (and maybe say a line or two of dialogue), and then when you move to the next "panel", their weapons clash again, this time in a different pose. Madefire's Motion Book tool is the closest thing I can think of that exists that achieves an effect like this; some of the Overwatch comics use it. I would love to see more things try to blend comics and animation together.
Man, I'm a bit new to this channel, but I am really starting to enjoy your stuff.
Visual economy is sweet.
could very well be the time of day but watching your videos is like.... so satisfying. im super excited to watch the rest, keep up with your content, read your comic eventually, and cry as im proud of you from afarrrr
is that creepy idk youre awesome
keep up the lovely work
u excellent human bean
omg, I've been planning on doing this for a while now! Because I have a long-form story in mind, and I don't want to have to draw all those panels out, because I'd probably die, hehe. It's awesome to see that it's not just me who wants to try this out. :D
After seeing a few of your vids I am subbing the hell out of you
I absolutely concur with the "there has to be some middle ground" idea. Not knowing about visual novels (or rather, think I knew what they were, and being wrong) I thought, why aren't people making graphic novels with media... then thought maybe there just aren't enough Kindles to run that stuff, and the comic book guys see it as heresy... I need to learn more....
I think you would be interested in what have been done in France in the digital comics field. Things like the Turbomedia or Professeur Cyclope.
Yes and no ... Basically the comics depend more on the author's visual narration skills. A medium like the one you are referring to, requires much more production than those of who make a web comic in their room, and for sure they can not afford it, or it is not in their abilities or expertise to schedule something like that. It's more of a team effort tha,t in most cases, does not fit the profile of what webcomics are looking for.
As someone already said in these comments this Visual Novels are more like a type of video game.
Idk, visual novels aren’t that hard to figure out. One person could easily do it all on their own with something like Ren’py and general problem solving skills. Like, one person is not gonna create the next Danganronpa or Ace Attorney but they could probably create a decent indie game-sized VN without much trouble, and many do.
Hey!! I've always been a fan of visual novels, but just because I love the idea of different story paths lead by your decisions along the game, but what i love the most is perhaps the possibility that all those different timelines coexist as part of a path of the game. Anyway, a year ago I started a project in the place I used to work. In the end, it lead to something different that I wanted (but like, really different). The thing was a "comic" (though my bosses really can't differentiate between a graphic novel and a comic), this comic was going to be animated in some parts, it was going to have sound in some panels, and also it was going to be a visual novel, in which, in some important parts of the story, the reader was going to assume the role of the main character and take decisions that were going to lead the story to different paths. Each path had a different end, combined by the decisions you made along the comic. You'd be able to acquire items, knowledge, abilities that would help you in your "mission". It was a hell of a work, but also, rewarding in some aspects. The project didn't make it as it would be, or as i would like it to, but I think I'll never stop thinking about a project like that, combining the things I like about different media.
I've recently came to the same conclusions as you, a lot of ideas I was considering using for comic books I started to instead rework into a VN format. The first I am looking to make will actually use 3D assets done with a painterly texture style. I'm playing around with the traditional RPG trope of a random encounter in the wild, but with the twist that I'd like to see how someone in the real world might react to stumbling upon a monstrous humanoid in the forest. The player has to chose whether they will run away, try to fight it or attempt to approach it peacefully. Those make up the 3 main routes of the game - each of which will have 2-3 possible endings.
I find that graphic novel is probably the most efficient mid-way between the two. Basically make a page of text accompanied by a page of illustration. That way you don't have to painstakingly draw every detail of the story, but you still give enough visual information for the important key scenes.
RadenWA seems like a pdf of a light novel
great video very inspiring, cross over is inevitably gonna happen. ;) All ready bought visual novel software on steam now find some time to start using it. ;)
Homestuck makes heavy use of visual novel styles. It’s dialogue is below the actual panel, and makes use of reused backgrounds, animations, and music. What you are talking about is just Homestuck, essentially.
ahead of it's time, surely. Still think the story is far too bloated tho
Treasury yeah, but that’s what happens when you let the internet write the start of your story for you.
I knew someone else would bring it up but also Hiveswap: Friendism should be brought up as a good example of a western visual novel.
The comic Buying Time is a nice mix of the two. It's done in flash, uses comics panel layout, but you click forward speech bubble by speech bubble, and it includes some limited animation, and characters popping in and out or changing expressions.
Though the downside of visual novels is longevity. A comic book will still "work" a hundred years from now, while something made in Flash or Unity likely won't without a lot of effort.
Note that Burning Time is adults only and gay themed, but definitely worth checking out buyingtime.the-comic.org
Quintet is a Visual Novel that has a comicbook format and it's pretty good.
In 8:30 I think you bould borrow the repeating scenario from theater plays as well! In most pieces I've seen (and I have seen few) sometimes the scenario simply doesn't change! The characters do! Less immersive, but I think also an option!
You are speaking my language. I am a writer I have bounce around through a few things. I started out with screen plays, and because it was more economical to write a novel because it was just harder to make a movie. I never really could feel at home in writing a full novel, because I was so used to puting more focus on the dialogue and the image because I was writing as if the movie was playing in my head. Recently, I got interested in programming, because for one I thought it would be great to teach my kids, and after watching Black Mirror's Bandersnatch, I liked the choose your own adventure narative. I reasearched programs like Twine, RenPy, and TyranoBuilder, as well as learning programming. As I am piecing together what I feel I am supposed to be writing, I am finding a home in visual novel games and telling elaborate almost cinamatic narritives. Of course it is a long way off because I am still just learning digital art, programming, and game design. This put all that in perspective. Thank you, I know what direction I want to take my writing.
I was literally planning to do exactly this, to create a visual novel with an indie comic style. And than just happened to stumble upon this. I shall take it as a sign. I will do it.
Thanks. This is helpful for comic writing
I've been working on a digital platform for several years which aims to allow all the media structures you've highlighted (among other functionality) but I've been trying to distance it from Japanese visual novel story telling look and feel due to the misconceptions the western world has of that medium format.
Your video though... has given me some new ideas and I think I'm going to lean further into that than I was considering before. Thank you for this video ^_^
I’m new to the graphic novel game so thanks for the videos 😂
There are "choose your own adventure" comics. (Print comics).
Really good tips!
visual novels are also famous for their 18+ goodies
A mix of a comic and visual novels would be cool
WHY can't I save this in a playlist?!
You can’t????
I think in recent years (ex. past 2016) theres been a BOOM in western visual novels as a medium, mostly due to some blowing up, and more indie devs discovering the format (it's generally easier to code/create than a full blown game)
I was think about that. I was doing this method in away n a book coming up. Now I am thinking of it as away to do short story spin offs.
I wrote some articles and papers on this very topic in 2010 and did some panels at cons on this in 2011-2014, really want to update that into a video.
i actually find this video interesting, i know its a 6 year old video that youtube recommended but ive been playing visual novels for over 10 years now and can actually say that alot of indie visual novels(even back then) do use unique art styles that are not only " just anime like", and do implement sound design as well as some can even lean more towards the video game aspect. they also have a wide range of genres under the visual novel catagory, like horror or adventure ect which have grown more popular in the recent years as you'll now see alot of RPG maker horror games use the formula for making a visual novel while implementing more game elements such as finding key items to progress the story line of a character, or having mini game sequences ect.
it's fun to see how much visual novels have grown over the years and its wonderful to think that this is a type of game that is still here to this day, and a type that many indie developers are actively working on/ are still interested in making.
I'd love to know if you have any that you recommend
Yeah...great video, and chanel in general.....I´m an artist (although more for digital based single images/illustrations) and I also read manga and visual novels....I think there is a lot that these two media forms can learn from each other...first there is the aproach you went for...but I think it also works teh other way around....for example drawing one or two big images of a whole location and then reuse this image, everytime your chracter is in that location, but cut the image into smaller sections, so the background looks a bit different everytime, but you don´t have to redraw it for every image. Also in terms of story-telling there is a lot that these two can learn from each other.....Studio feel. and Gansis did that aproach on the anime adaptation of yosuga no sora for example and took over these alternate endings....so every dvd or bd is the same story, but with different branching story arcs.....And printed comics (or manga) are able to learn from that as well, I think.
I agree that it would be nice to see more overlap between indie comics & VNs (in sort of the same way that it'd be nice to see more overlap between VNs and the traditional interactive fiction sphere in the west, which has largely crystallized around text adventures). I think this video does a disservice to VNs by underselling the diversity and stylistic & metatextual experimentation that already goes on in the medium, though.
Your claim that VNs are generally conventionally anime-styled is accurate (though that's rapidly changing, as a lot of smaller-scale commercial VNs are coming out of Russia, Singapore, Hong Kong, and China these days, and we're seeing a lot more experimentation with visual style at the same time). Your claim that most VNs are structured around pursuing romantic interests isn't quite true anymore: the typical structure is the same, but outside of straight dating sims, often a character's route is about following a story about that character's situation, with romantic connection being strictly optional. Even straight dating sims are almost always full of SF elements. These aren't really new trends: Nasuverse stories like Tsukihime and Fate/Stay Night, though they certainly have romance elements, aren't about the romance so much as they are about exploring the setting, and this wasn't something groundbreaking in 2003 either.
I might be nitpicking. I agree with your thesis. I just feel like summarizing the entire VN sphere as "anime dating sims" is not merely reductive but inaccurate, and I would have preferred if you had mentioned than VNs are typically speculative fiction with metatextual elements (so as not to mislead indie comics fans who have never heard of them before this video).
Another way to say it would be go to the other way. Almost all American comics are super hero comics.
Another thing about these "dating visual novels" that are out there in Japan do have main characters (the character that the player controls the decisions of) with a fully fleshed out backstory. Most of the ones that I'm familiar with have this sort of "third person" approach to it. So in the end, it's not really the player interacting with the character. A visual novel that is story based will tend to have choices limited upon what the character will plausibly do rather than what the player wants to do.
Yeah, that's exactly the kind of statement he's making here. It might be true if you weigh each title by sales (the most popular comics are mainstream superhero titles, and the most popular VNs are dating sims) but it's not a good generalization about the medium (since it's not true without such a sales adjustment: the majority of comic titles are unclassifiable one-person projects that don't even sell a single issue, and the same is true of VNs).
Chosen your own story line is seen in comics since 70's, music and animation is featured in many webcomics. However very few has taken it as far as Bouletcorp, were some episodes is just animation, with voice acting.
Thanks alot !
one japanese visual novel that breaks the norm is ace attorney by capcom. If you havent played it yet, I recommend picking it up when you get the chance. Though youll need a nintendo handheld to play (GBA,DS, or 3DS)
There is also the Professor Layton series, however I consider them to belong to point and click genre, not visual novels, as visual novels. In both cases they would be consider an adventure game, ADV in Japan.
thanks for the tips
Very interesting idea! A lot of the VN look pretty chill though. How would action work in VN? pretty much the same just all in land scape format?
When you talked about the mesh of both mediums, I immediately thought about Epithet Erased
You should check out a short free indie game called The Lion’s Song! It comes in a visual novel/point click(?) format and has a charming art style and story. It’s definitely worth the hour or two spent playing it, especially since the first episode is free!
My life experiences have taught me something about indie comics,...romance comics sells!
That's why there is nothing but that genre all over webtoon.
I think it's relatively difficult to define a digital novel... For example - what about dialogue heavy point and click games like "Edna breaks out" - there are a lot of digital novels with point and click elements after all. Or what about Tell Tale Games. Those are also very dialogue heavy with the main mechanic being changing the story in regards to what dialogue option you chose. Would you regard those as digital novels? What I'm getting at is that apart from the romance genre, other genres benefit from having more different game mechanics than just a dialogue system. So basically a wide range of digital novels with a broader genre than just romance actually already kinda exist. (Meaning they would work as just a digital novel but benefit from also having different features, so in the end they are not just this but more.)
I'm curious how people like Lars learn how to draw so effectively? I need an artist for a project, and I don't think I should be the one to design, but I also would like to learn :D
I’d love to see more varied visual novels, Phoenix Wright, a game is what I’d consider a visual novel without the romance
Plently of webcomics make use of gifs (animation) and sound. I know of at least one with branching paths, so.. idk spend some time on tapas and youll find what youre looking for
Been wondering what I would do if I made a UA-cam channel and I think you gave me some ideas time to make some assets ^^
What you could do... Do you know the video game "XIII"? It was a 3D shooter with some faux comic panels shown here and there to emphasize certain events. If Visual novel engines allow that, or you are savvy with unity, you could do that in such a hybrid!
It's curious, when I say I'm making a visual novel everyone jumps saying why I'm drawing anime, when my style is clearly European. I can even make a visual novel with pre-rendered assets on a mood ala-Inscryption and it will still be a visual novel. I hope things change in the future when more westerner visual novels start to spread their style on the medium.
I've been doing the same shifting from what I planned as a comic to a VN, great ripe medium
With comics and artwork going digital I wonder why many artists would draw the same thing every time as opposed to just keeping a file of the character poses, and creating new ones only when needed, or taking an existing image and modifying it so you have a completely new image.
Other than the people who just love drawing.
I remember B.C comics would have certain generic panels that would be used, just changing up the words in the balloons.
Anyway, there are visual novels where every single image is a completely independent image. Full-page image, no images on top of images. Although this is more common with 3D renders. You pose the characters and can change the camera angle resulting in an almost infinite set of possibilities. But even then the rendering takes time, and separating out the background from the characters speeds that up, and it is still possible to put the characters in the image in a way that looks like they are in the scene, or close to it. Or you could render images that are a combination, jumping back and forth between the two options as the scenes demand.
If you are just putting up a series of cartoons I am not sure you really need a programmer. Sure you would need to learn a VN program that builds these things, but for simple storytelling, they aren't that hard. More complex with animation, or motion with the characters. It gets more complex when video game components are added in. When you track things and have interactions that depend on previous choices then it can get more complex, but just a simple linear story without any choices and even the choose your own adventure isn't going to be barely as hard to do, unless you want to make the programming more complex that is.
Hey Lars, Rocket here. Just bought your Kaneoka Diaries chronica yesterday, hoping to make enough money at the end of the week to buy your beautifully crafted and utterly interesting graphic novel Tonoharu. I plan on putting it right next to my Persepolis and Maus volumes. That being said, I gotta say I've never been that much into visual novels. Actually, the concept does not sound very enticing to me at all, but that's probably because whatever few, ummmm... episodes I've read are either romance or garbage, so I'm not judging that medium. What I do wanna say is that, despite how much time it took you to develop it, I gotta say that I wouldn't really spend much time or money going through a visual novel when I can read a comic or a graphic novel. And I think I would only be thinking "I want to play videogames" while going through the slides or animations. That being said, I urge you to continue on your own path since you've probably already made it to the pantheon of beloved graphic novelists anyways, so what the hell. The obly thing I'd like to say is that seeing the same exact background, if not the same pose, abd the sane exact camera angle can get pretty dull pretty fast. Maybe if you could make them interactive you'd be eliminating that negative asoect, but then again I think you'd be delving right into videogame making. Which would be great, actually. Hope you get to read this message, and also, can I buy Tonoharu in digital form or your other graphic work like Kaneoka D. In a full page non-individual panel format? Thanks Lars, keep up the good work my friend.
okay, question: what makes a visual novel any different from a slideshow? I ask because I am working on a comic project myself and I have entertained the idea of a motion comic because I think it would be neat to have voice acting, sound effects and music. But, then am I not just tweening an image of my character in a bounce to show them talking?
Also, how would this look for an action/shonen type genre like my comic? My readers will not be in the shoes of my main character, in the end I think I would be drawing the same amount of images but add sound effects and music. Thus making my comic take even longer to officially release.
I'm really torn because it's obvious I want to make this an animated series, but only have the time to make a comic.
I think this is an amazing idea! I plan to integrate Ir
We need more collaboration between artists
So basically, if Homestuck had been better organized :P EDIT: and much, much shorter
ya know, if it wasn't so expensive, i'd do just this myself but bruhhhhh i dont got like 60k lying around
Not to be that person but, have you heard about homestuck? i think that combined webcomics and graphic novels with a really cool style
Goddammit Lars!! You stole my idea xD
I would argue that visual novels have derived more from books than comics with scripts such as CLANNAD's being longer than any RPGs or the entirety of Lord of the Rings for example. But that of course makes it even a bigger shame that they're mostly dominated by one genre.
Question: Did you play the visual novel series Danganronpa or Zero Escape?
Both tell a story about a diverse cast of character trapped in a closed area. Both offer some gameplay variety with the former having courtroom mini-games to solve a murder and the second one having occasional room escape puzzles. But both are still mainly visual novels with a heavy focus in the overarching mystery in the former and a heavy focus on branching paths in the latter (This is especially interesting as branching paths are even integrate parts of the story, but I don't want to spoil anything).
However, great that you at least played Steins;Gate. ...Which still falls into the cliché of having the girls names as the endings. Something that's absolutely not true about Danganronpa or Zero Escape.
How! Great ideia! Spend a lot of years drawing for draw comics books in traditional way. Find a economy way to do this is amazing! :)
I am a cartoonist and comic illustrator. I have been planning something very much like this for a few months.
Would you like to connect and talk?
Graphic novels are slow? Mostly. Then again, you see something like One Piece or Naruto, and wow, those are done really, really quick. As in one comic book per week!
Paca Plus is my favorite visual novel
i feel like for certain stories employing a Visual novel style might restrict dynamic storytelling. definitely good for smaller-scale projects but some comics need that diversity to better the experience
Clearly you have no idea of the diversity in VN media, you are clearly misrepresenting an entire medium, one thing you are missing is the target audience of which is mostly your average Japanese high school student whom by the way have excessive pressures that do not exist in the western world, secondly you aren't considering what is popular, visual novels certainly have tropes but that shouldn't discredit their popularity, tropes are popular for the reason I mentioned above, thirdly the meaning is lost in translation as Japanese culture is much stricter on what sort of games they can make, they can't afford to pour tons of money into these titles so they make up for it with good writing and good story and need to release them on a frequent basis to continue to fund their production. Indie comics in America are just that, in America, they are not popular anywhere else in the western world and for a good reason, because they are not well known? Can you say the same about visual novels? Everyone has probably seen at least one visual novel appear on steam and if they are familliar with anime it's a possible customer, meaning it's accessible to it's intended audience, pc gamers averaging 14 - 19 years of age. It's why so many indie games are popularising the visual novel format such as Pyre or Monster Prom, because they are tried and true. They add character, and they provide diversity, it's entirely up to the creators to provide meaningful play and how much money and time they have to throw at it. It's true indie visual novels aren't nearly as popular as mainstream visual novels, take Quartett! for example it's a visual novel stylised as an interactive comic book. Visual Novels have only really started to be translated officially in the last 5-8 years, it's still in it's infancy.
I would recommend Fate/Stay Night if you want a good fantasy/action visual novel, and the Umimeko and Higurashi series if you want a good supernatural mystery thriller story. Another good mystery visual novel called g-senjou no maou, and then there's the visual novels in the BlazBlue anime fighting game series. Also the western highly acclaimed visual novel that outrightly used common tropes in visual novels and was inspired by a 4chan post called Katawa Shoujo.. The pixel art style visual novel that's also western called VA-11 HALL-A. The Zero Escape Nonary Games, and a western visual novel that has just dropped in early access in April this year and has had a demo available for years now called Exogenesis ~Perils of Rebirth~. My favourite visual novel of all time Ever 17 which is a must read btw and will make you question the very essence of story telling itself (and i think you'll like it based on your idea for this visual novel you created, i skimmed it a bit and might listen to it like a podcast at some point in the future). Look up Sekien no Inganock, it's pretty light on playtime and very easy to get into, you'll have to download the english patch and find the game (i reccomend eroge download .com which i've used for years) you'll have to download it in parts and extract them once you have every part downloaded into a folder (it's a painstaking process for sure, but once it's done it will feel great). Edit: I would point out more but i already feel I would just be doing an injustice to visual novels by posting so many here lol.
Good video and statment
I like visual novels just the way they are
From Phoenix wright to nekopara to the Sakura series to neptunia to steins gate
But
That's probably just me
Did this video itself take inspiration from visual novels?? Cause you keep changing the music when changing the topic, maybe I'm just going crazy :-) I don't even know why I'm asking cause you're the type of youtuber to silently go through comment discussions without intervening.
Honestly, I personally don't think this will even happen. West enriching the visual novels medium, I mean. I once mused on a web forum about visual novels, thinking about starting a story in a visual novel format, what do the readers of visual novels think that novels are lacking, and what would they want to see in it, or what they are sick to death in them. I proposed my suggestion as well (as an example), which was to make the backgrounds and characters three-dimensional models, allowing for advanced animation during the dialogues and events and stuff.
What I got in response was... hostile, to say the least. The general tone of 90% of the comments was "You either do it *exactly* as Japanese do, or you hire _actual_ Japanese creators to help you develop it, else what you have is Not A Visual Novel, so you go somewhere else with that shit, and close the door behind you". In the west, the majority of the consumer base for VNs are weebs and weeaboos, and they have almost religious worship of the eastern culture. Anything that deviates from flawless Japanese standard is a Heresy.
So... you want to reinvent the graphic adventure game genre? Because they are literally like comics but in videogame form, music, animation and voice acting included. They are usually puzzle based, but not necesarily.
I feel like visual novels miss out on the more video game side of their programming. Doki Doki Literature Club is one of my favorites because of its defied expectations and interesting mechanics
Please explain. Manga? Visual Novel? Graphic novel? 6:40
this is hilarious. I approached the same idea, with the same goal, but came to the exact opposite method. XD
I'm currently working on a proof of concept, for taking the medium of a standard webcomic, but building it, using visual novel image style to make art production more efficient.
though my recipe also takes influence, from video games, that utilize bone tool posing software.
"Vanillaware" titles, such as "Odin Sphere", or "Muramasa", are good examples of what can be achieved with this method.
I'll be drawing illustrated 2d dolls, then posing them using "Dragon Bones Pro", to export complex sprite sheets, with a multitude of poses, and expressions.
I will then build a traditional webcomic, using the sprite sheets, for the majority of the panels.
I'll then fill in key frame scenes, with hand drawn illustrations.
an example of my Illustrations:
imgur.com/DJx6a7Q
I would be interested to hear your opinion on my approach.
seeing as our goals have some overlap, perhaps we could converse on this subject?
Sorry for the super late response!
I have zero experience with it personally, but I totally think the "2d paper doll/bone animation" approach has tons of potential. I suppose the challenge would be finding a cool, stylized way to use them without creating too much extra work for the cartoonist/visual novelist. If you're doing something really short it probably wouldn't matter if what your method is inefficient, but if you were working on something longer it could make production time balloon into years if you had tons of custom animations and stuff. (^^;)
Did you intentionally pick 3 VNs about PTSD for your examples?
you didn't mention "Cerebus the Aardvark" and "Bone".. they are long