Rivian R1T & R1S 2nd-gen Review - The Carmudgeon Show w/ Jason Cammisa & Derek Tam-Scott - Ep 150
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- Опубліковано 16 чер 2024
- There's a new set of Rivian twins on the market, but most of updates on the R1T and R1S are under the skin. But they're very significant!
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The new R1T and R1S feature new batteries, new motors, a new electrical architecture, new lighting, and new substantive updates to the interior - Jason flew to Washington to drive them on and off-road.
The new R1 includes infotainment updates that includes Apple Music - but still no Apple CarPlay, which Jason finds to be a wart on an otherwise near-perfect machine.
The other wart is the ride quality - it's still fantastic off-road, and it's better, but it's not up to the level of greatness attained by the rest of the vehicle.
The quad-motor variant rips off a face-melting 2.5-second 0-60 and 10.5 @ 130 mph in the quarter mile - which is impressive. But necessary?
Of course, the Carmudgeons spend some time insulting Subaru drivers (admitting that their experience with slow Subarus might be a San Francisco Bay Area phenomenon) but looking at some national statistics that show that Subaru drivers are the worst of any passenger-car brand.
And of course, they address people comparing their previous Waymo self-driving robotaxi episode experience to Tesla's Full Self Driving. They're not even remotely close.
More of this and more! - Авто та транспорт
This episode is sponsored by Vyper Industrial - America’s #1 rated shop chair, tool carts, and creepers, proudly made here in the US. Go to www.vyperindustrial.com/ and use code HAGERTY for $50 off on all your order!
My favorite United States made creeper that doesn't rhyme with Mason cabisa!
Chrysler 200 convertible backround almost passed away from laughing...
Today on The Carmudgeon Show:
Derek listens to Jason.
... which is why this was such a great episode.
So what?
Hey Jason or Derek- Are you guys planning on doing an episode about the 296/750S/911 Turbo S drag racing that Leman car? I’d love to hear about how you guys made that and your impressions of the cars
I'm an HVAC nerd really enjoying hear you go into the technical discussion of heat pumps vs resistive heaters!
Honestly, so wish Rivian had gone there first, but, as a veteran of older EVs and PHEVs I'll live with the seat heaters and such instead of spending insane energy on trying to heat the air
Next episode needs to have DTS drink an extremely caffinated beverage before starting so that Jasan can get the full sit-back-and-listen-to-rant treatment!
Seattle resident here. Yes, Subaru drivers are comatose. As are Prius drivers. And, lately, Tesla drivers. :/
Agree. In fairness though, a huge portion of Seattle drivers are Californians who can't drive in the rain. 😉🤔😂 -New York ➡️ Seattle transplant (33 years)
@@joecutro7318I’m not convinced natives can drive in the rain either. People seem to forget over the summer.
@ryansellers2581 You very well may be right, Ryan. Their seasonal hibernation has just begun.
😅 (Sorry CA and WA, truth is hard)
I think y’all’s aversion to Subarus is funny. I have always seen them as fun cheerful little cars. Subies are not a problem in the mid south, at least where I am.
Toyotas are the problem in Ohio. And Nissans, but they're not nearly as bad as Toyota.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872I’m in ny and Impreza drivers are getting aggressive, not far behind from Altima drivers.
Here in Melbourne, Aus, Subaru drivers are people who don't care about cars but believe AWD = Safe. Also funny to hear them described as little as I don't believe Subaru currently make a vehicle I would describe as small.
@@phattiger1506 up here in Syd I would say the same thing about typical Subie drivers. They're not the worst drivers around, but like most other motorists, just sort of aloof.
Notable exception is the P platers in boggo Imprezas who act like they've got WRXs
@@phattiger1506 Fair enough! I guess I'm not so much meaning "little" in terms of size as much as just a general diminutive. Like Mazda. Not a big player. What they do won't change the market. Also, there's a lot of Crosstreks and Imprezas where I am.
Boise, Idaho here. I've never particularly noticed Subaru drivers asleep at the wheel (no more than everyone else, anyway). Prius drivers -- as with everywhere -- yes. You can set your watch to it.
Great way to start the week!
I thought the chair was a photoshopped thing on top the whole time until it got moved lol
You are right, in Texas, and most other states, you can do the posted speed limit while towing. How terrifying this is depends entirely on your tow vehicle, the trailer and how it was loaded. I and many others routinely tow 30 + foot horse trailers weighing well north of 10K pounds at the posted limit. Difference is we mostly do this with 3/4-1 ton rated HD trucks, a lot of us with DRW and you forget there is a trailer back there. A 1/2 ton truck or a truck based SUV is capable of towing, but HD trucks are built to tow. It makes a big difference. What would be a white knuckle drive in an F-150 or an Expedition, is a walk in the park with a DRW F-350.
I especially love the way trailers and truck beds get loaded here. It's so thrilling to avoid a mattress flying out the back or to dodge trade supplies like buckets - especially when you're in a rental - from a rig going 75.
Holy shit Jason's impression of a tape message recorder ffwd is hysterical
WRX is #1 for speeding tickets and BRZ is #5. Which is funny, because everyone thinks our cars are slow. I guess when you're carrying 25mph more through a corner you don't need tons of acceleration to blow past the speed limit. It doesn't hurt that WRX's are really unpleasant to drive at a normal speed for some reason. I find I beat the piss out of my car more than I'd like because zooming around is more enjoyable than the shaking/noise/backpain I get doing 35.
The BRZ is a sports car and the WRX has flashy add-ons. Cops notice them, which results in a disproportionate number of speeding tickets.
WRX's are like a new puppy with the zoomies.
They are slow. A smart car can break the speed limit on most roads. I've done 125 in a base 2000 Honda Civic lol
Bluetooth is the minimum. I've never used CarPlay or Android Auto and I'm fine. But I do need bluetooth.
There are just too many Subarus in the Pacific Northwest to get a sort of generalization about them. They span everything from stealth wealth to someone's first car at age 24. So we have terrible comatose, we have hyper aggressive speeding, we have normal chill folks in the middle lane, etc.
Thanks to Jason, I just found out my E-Golf has Carplay - I just needed to connect it with a cable. Something I never knew I missed before
In, for the Subarus &Sacco event!
I drive a GT86. On the strength of Jason's recommendation I persuaded my wife to test drive a used e-Golf. It's a brilliant car. And in Ireland they were almost all sold with the 17" GTI wheels and UHP summer tires. It took me a while to get the hang of not doing front wheel burnouts everytime I drove it. Nevermind everything going EV, even gas is going digital. I like physical gauges, a mechanical LSD, rowing through the gears. So I don't ever plan to sell the 86 (which has retrofitted wireless carplay). When VW remembers how to do an electric compact, my wife's next car may well be another electric Golf. But it's a case of right tool for the job. The 86 is just about tolerable as a daily, but the e-golf is great for that. The 86 is for twisites and road trips (since I Lexusified it with some sound deadening).
"On this episode of the Carmudgeon show, Jason imitates prior co-hosts, but fails to say 'on this episode of Roadkill' in honor of his six-or-seven-we've-lost-count 'old German cars that hate him.'"
This episode was about to go off the rails at the end and I love it
I’m with Derek on the original head units. I wired in a Becker Bluetooth adapter to my 996. Super easy and preserving the original aesthetic while adding Spotify connectivity makes for a significantly improved driving experience.
Superfast Matt actually built an electric classic Jaag. I wonder if Hagerty drivers club works with that considering its electric things are from Tesla
Hagerty let's you do "declared value" policies, although now you made me curious if they would make liability adjustments with weight... Or if they have a not-covered-in-case-of-fire exclusion or something🤷🏼♂️
Having lived in 3 big cities in the west coast and midwest now, Subarus are bad but I wouldn't think of the brand as the leading icon of comatose drivers. The last gen priuses and people who think they don't have to pay attention with autopilot in model 3s come to mind first.
Superbly edited ep. Also, someone at Riv also agrees that the BMW cruise control stalk from the 80s and 90s was the best design. Periodt.
I agree 100% that the recent anti-EV sentiment is driven by government mandates. You didn't hear about it prior to the mandates. Tesla was selling lots of cars during the Trump years. People were happily buying EVs anyway and would have continued to do so given the benefits of driving an EV (cost, performance, etc). Being told that they had to buy EVs and that is all that was going to be sold in the future pissed people off and created people who are now very anti-EV.
Literally had no problem with Subarus until im listening to this podcast and what do i find? A subaru with florida plates lazily taking up both lanes at 10 under the speed limit. Until she finally made a decision and turned left
I'd blame that on the Florida plates before the Subaru badge. I live in Wisconsin and it's always an elderly person with Florida plates driving 10-15 under the speed on the wide open county roads. Usually it's a Lexus, not a Subaru
@SchroedingerK you're probably right. In this part of virginia, florida plates usually mean rental.
43:12 🤣 great editing
At 50:00 I nearly died laughing too 😂
Wow, the end of show is so sensible & thoughtful I had to check it was still you two talking....
I guess the thing I disagree with y'all on, and it's only because of how vastly different our locations are, but I don't want a dingy... I want my daily commuter to be an experience. Not as much as my "fun" car, I still want creature comforts and to confidently drive in the snow, but I still want to sling it sideways on my daily commute. I still want to get feedback from the car. I want to make my commute fun. I never, ever want a car to just be a transportation device.
That being said, I don't live in a city or anything, so I don't deal with stop-and-go traffic or anything. I might feel differently about my daily if I were commuting in a city, but as I have at least enough space to be an absolute hooligan on my way to work, give me a daily that is going to be an experience.
Exactly this. I’ve done the “boring commuter + fun car” thing and it sucks, you spend 90% of your time in the boring commuter. It’s much better having two fun cars (I have a Jeep and a roadster). I never understood the insistence by car people “just get some boring car to do most of your driving in!”
Great show!! The editing was awesome. More please!
Great stuff guy's. Totally agree with you Jason when you say just go drive and EV. Just had a rental Polestar 2 to have the EV experience, I'm a dinosaur juice and stick shift man to the end but as a transportation device it was brilliant. This car completely won me over, the tech is great. We will definitely be cashing in the family ICE conveyance for an EV.
Also Jason thank you for tearing them a new asshole for not having Apple Carplay and Android Auto. Every car maker that omits these features can get fucked and is never seeing a penny from me.
They’re just greedy and won’t admit the main reason they’re omitting screen mirroring is so that they can harvest and sell our data
😂 at 10:37 thank you for straightening out the alignment of the audio mixer. 😂😂😂
I dunno when the last time you used FSD was, but its SO good now. Especially off highway with the new software. I also live in the Bay Area and have let it drive me everywhere and it’s been fantastic.
Your descriptions of Subaru drivers fits perfectly with what I see in LA.
In Ohio, Subaru drivers are not notable in any way at all. But I'm convinced Toyotas take away your ability to drive. They're terrible (Tacoma and 86 excepted). Nissan drivers are inconsiderate and aggressive, but it doesn't seem to be a skill issue.
As far as Bluetooth audio while retaining a stock dash and head unit, I would recommend checking out the brand “out of sight audio”, it’s not CarPlay but it does Bluetooth calling and audio, although volume control would be either be done through your phone or a knob wired in separately
I was driving at Pacific Raceways the day they were filming the drag shots seen at 23:55. The speed on a prepped drag strip was honestly unbelievable.
Cheers guys 👍💪✌
Rivian should add CarPlay and let the numbers speak for themselves when they can see how their customers are using the systems. Who knows, maybe it will help them sell more Rivians?
Tesla has the best integrated infotainment for an automaker and yet every single Tesla I see has a phone holder attached to the side of the screen where they use Waze, Google maps, Apple Maps, podcast apps and text responses. Sure, the interface of CarPlay doesn’t always look great but the functionality is unmatched.
They won't because the data is more valuable.
10:35 oh hey there lil buddy
Thank you for relieving my OCD alignment concerns!
200% my experience - got super close to buying a R1S or Tesla in the past but couldn’t bring myself to do it because I feel offended paying 70+ on a car without Apple CarPlay
Just yesterday I had a Subaru event where the Crosstrek was in the left lane going under the 55mph speed limit causing at least a 10 car traffic backup incident because they refused to get out of the left lane
im not sure if e31s use the IBUS system or not, but if they do look into the BlueBus, i have one in my e39 on the non GPS radio and it works wonderfully.
We have a 130 toll highway here (Texas, Austin) with an official speed limit of 80 and 85 in some places. Most scary thing is the fancy colored lifted pickup trucks with shiny wheels going 110 and more. It is quite an experience having that big thing moving past you when you are doing a speed limit on the right lane :)
There is usb to RJ adapters for radars/valentine 1. I have one on ours because the ‘24 Sierra doesn’t have lighter sockets.
Chrysler 200 Convertible “background image” is fantastic trolling. I saw one the other day in traffic and got excited to see the ‘modern’ LeBaron (convertibles are wildly rare in Western WA State). I’d love to see Jason replace the Ferrari in his garage with one for the Driver’s Club pitch on Icons episodes.
Nice to hear the distinction between pro drivers and rideshare wrt the Waymo episode.
There are fused USB-C to RJ-15 converters(?) available all over the place. I use one in my GRC because also, no lighter.
I don't have too many Subaru people issues in the Maryland Virginia area... It's Toyota/lexus drivers. The slowest.. Can we merge toyobaru as just fuji cars?
lol, i think you did my intro, Jason. hopefully, you are one of my subscribers if haven't please do.. big fan and love the carmudgeon show
Valentine 1 has an inexpensive USB-C kit, I have 2 of them, they work great on motorcycle (with app) or in F150
(no cigarette port). Cheers.
Chicagoland commuter here. Subaru drivers are normal. our issues is the normal Prius, truckers, work vans, and whatever vehicle cab drivers are using.
7:47: It never ceases to amaze me how so-called automotive enthusiasts rage over anything that may reduce traffic or make driving better, as if any new tech today exists _solely as a direct vendetta_ at their driving license.
We should be welcoming anything that exists primarily as an effort to get aggressive soccer parents in their Grand Jynahs and Nissan Pukes off the road.
My Rivian was hit a month ago. Old guy clipped my tire as he passed me. Snapped a tie rod end. the certified repair shop is now around 10k and I expect it to continue to climb. Doesn’t include replacing the steering rack which I’m sure will get added to the bill somehow.
In Italy the comatose drivers are all in lancia Ypsilons
I don't think that's an Italian thing. Just that statistically Italy has a lot of Ypsilons. I'm willing to bet all Ypsilon drivers are comatose drivers.
as a volvo owner, Carplay and android auto are essential. my car has its own data connection. and for whatever dumb reason, if i drive under a bridge, the car's data connection dies, (there's seemingly no buffering room allotted to tidal) and my music stops. And for whatever weird reason, the same thing happens when i tether data from my phone to the car via bluetooth. If i could use android auto, there'd be no problem. but volvo don't want nothin to do with android auto, and i'm not an iphone user (though i'd consider it if the iphone minis came back).
Subarus in Vancouver Canada are not the real plight. RAM drivers seem to be universally bad / aggro, but otherwise it really is the Altimas (now also Rogues - the ultimate non-choice of vehicle) and, wierdly, modern Range Rovers that you have to watch around here.
I love having CarPlay in my eGolf, but I don’t miss it at all in the Tesla.
You also got me thinking what Dodge model they are making now and now i realised this brand is almost gone
I may have contributed to that subaru citation number......going 34 over in my 04 wrx wagon
Subaru drivers in the Midwest are owned by young professionals or families. Drivers are inoffensive if a bit slow.
To answer your query.. yes subaru drivers are bad outside of California, it spreads as far as Australia. Where you can find a XV or forester or base model impreza sitting in the fast lane at inconsistent speeds (10 below normally, sometimes at speed but rare and deff not overtaking anyone)
However the worst drivers here per capita is Peugeot/Citroen followed closely by VW drivers (mainly amarok or tourag and ofcourse golfs).
Car companies now long to be consumer software companies.
Is Derek's LSSU shirt for Lake Superior State U?
Subaru (not WRX and STI) drivers are comatosed and slow in Québec.
In France, on the highway, the regular speed limit is 130 km/h but it is 110 km/h for trucks and if you are towing.
Keep up the good work!
1:12:35 THANK YOUUUU DEREK.
Michigan (when I left 11.5 years ago) had separate speed limits for towing. @31:37
Re. The Autopilot stalk on the rivian: thats how Volvo did it on a V70 model year 2000 in Europe. Haven't seen it since and it was fantastic. Keep it pulled towards you to go faster, leave it to maintain speed, and push it foreward to reduce speed.
Please pointing out the carplay and android auto issue to manufactures. Even the inbuilt automotive in our Polestar that can run waze is shit compared to just operating from the phone.
I was riding my motorcycle and came upon a Subaru wagon upside down in the middle of the road. Upon further inspection it was clear the driver had driven of the road at a low (comatose) speed and rolled the car.
I don’t know most times I see people driving WRX, they’re slow as fuck too.
Totally agree about CarPlay and Rivian. I think the cars they make have great features and are so close to getting me as a customer but if I can’t use CarPlay, I’m looking elsewhere. It’s too expensive of an object not to have this feature. 54:56
Totally agree. As much as I love my rivian, I wish it had CarPlay.
Jason THANK YOU for grilling the shit out of those engineers about putting in CarPlay. Hoping to replace my Mk7 GTI with an R3X, so hopefully by then they’ll cave.
No mention about the tunnel being discontinued for Gen 2?
In Colorado, Subies aren't really a problem, whether it is a WRX/STI or Outback/Crosstrek since they are the practical choice for winter weather for people who don't like Jeep or SUVs. The comatose drivers here are in Land Rovers, at least as I have experienced over the last week. 10 under on the highway, drifting into my lane on double left turn lanes, refusing to use the merge lane on right turns and just sitting waiting for the light to turn green. Yeah, not great.
I've owned 3 Subarus (have had the current one for 12 years). No accidents or tickets in any of them. I also own a BMW and have never had any incidents or tickets in that car either. So, I guess my data would be thrown out of that survey you showed. 😄
Long time watcher, first time commenter. I was a lot like Jason with the Apple CarPlay but I got over it. So hear me out. I have a model Y (2nd Tesla) so I am in the same place as a Riven owner. I have Apple Music and Podcasts in the Tesla but nothing else. It’s all I need to cover. And any address in my phone I can just send to the car. This takes no more time and works well. I am 100% Apple for my personal tech so it was a hit losing CarPlay but in reality as an actual owner it was of no real impact. BYW, I am a sales engineer and drive a good bit for customer meetings here on the East Coast so I get traffic etc to deal with to test everything out. I put this with the no glovebox button in the Tesla for non-owners but voice command solves that issue easily. I it’s just my observation from being a daily driver that’s made the change. BTW, I did love the Waymo episode. Your team puts on great programming.
Please do the episode about this vs. that regarding ICE and EV. I agree with you. Unfortunately, it's very popular to be divisive these days.
Your view on Subaru drivers are exactly what I see in Colorado.
Lot's of WRX drivers almost sideswipe you going 30 over the speed limit because they can't see through their fat vape cloud but think they can drive. While every other model (mostly Outbacks) are slower than normal traffic and oblivious to things like spacial awareness or braking distances.
In central and north TX I'd say it's not the norm that I see but definitely several have met fit your criteria on the Subaru front. The Altima thing is definitely the biggest issue in TX
The reason that Tesla and now GM’s EV’s don’t have Apple CarPlay, I believe, is because the company wants to estimated the battery’s state of charge at the end of your trip. They would like the driver to set the destination in the in-car navigation system so it can use that information (distance, speed limit, elevation change, etc.) combined with the battery’s pre trip state of charge to calculate the end of trip state of charge. I have an EV now that has Apple CarPlay but does not have the predictive end of trip state of charge the result of which I am constantly doing math & estimates in head to decide which charge station I should target on a trip. It’s like having to remember phone numbers before smartphones times 100000.
Here in south Africa we have a Chinese car called the Beijing x55, it's a great car but only sells 200 cars a month. The competitor sells 1000 units a month, reason being no carplay no android auto, they use a shit screen mirroring software, the dealers claim customers don't care but the numbers and buyers talk.
I've said it before, Subaru drivers here around Sacramento and up in the Foothills/Sierras are very much NOT the slow drivers. You two really need to get out of your bubble :P
That graphic for worst drivers has been shown to be a very dumb “study”.
Who does incidents per driver? It should be per mile.
Rhino records has a number of quad CDs currently in their catalog...if you have surround sound, you can specify 4 speakers and make it work. I completely agree with you re CarPlay and Android Auto...not having those makes the car a non-starter for me.
Subaru, GMC, and Chevy drivers are the ones I see camping in the left lane the most often in Oklahoma.
I think you need to try a Tesla driving 12.3 or newer software is impressive compared to the old software.
I have a LOT of good drives. 99% of interventions are preference or navigation error
Hi Jason and Hyphen, I'm from NJ and Subarus (plus teslas) ARE a problem here! Teslas are oblivious and Subarus (unless they're the WRX/STI) are comatose. Rams are also constantly on your ass, but Jeeps are bad too!
Teslas are the worst in NJ both on the road and the parking lots. The H1B visa drivers usually drive Tesla’s in NJ I noticed and have no regard for the left lane passing usage rule and in shopping lots the drivers are most likely to leave their shopping carts rolling at random after they fill up their cars at the store and don’t bother returning the carts.
55:06 Jason and I are in total agreement. Give me CarPlay in an R3 and I will be purchasing it. Leave it out and I will have to strongly consider whether I want to sacrifice living without it to have one of the best designs in decades.
You guys are reading these product scripts with the quality of the MANGRATE as featured by Norm Macdonald (RIP).
No offense but that sounds like a bunch of commie gobbledygook!
I miss Norm.
Cast iron grilling grate
W Jason as always
i remember the warm air of the refrigerator on my feet.
I actually decided to pass on getting a Rivian R1S because it didn't have Android Auto. The native navigation wasn't impressive at all, so not having access to Android Auto was a no-go for that reason alone.
Regarding the radio: put in the Porsche 1DIN unit that has Apple CarPlay.
How about my Livewire 1? I might need a tow. It is almost a classic. Given the ma few more months and they will go out of biz.
Here in Nashville, Tennessee, Subaru drivers are unbearable. Comatose is the perfect way to describe them, one might also call them oblivious. and I had a WR for a long time. Also, in terms of speeding tickets, I read a statistic once that the WRX is the most ticketed vehicle in America. And the way I drove mine, makes perfect sense lol
what is "ways" "waze"?
Please do more episodes in self driving cars. It would be interesting and hilarious to see how other companies do😂