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Going into season 3, I was so ready and excited to watch Din go through almost an Aragorn-like arc of going from this outsider warrior to begrudging ruler. and then for them to just.... not commit to any of the incredible plot points they had set up during the season 2 finale was just so disappointing
Likewise. That was what I was expecting after finishing season 2. I had so many ideas on how they could have gone about this and it made me excited! Unfortunately, they just had to...... ruin that setup.... I think it was such a slap in the face. Not to mention, they just replaced Din with Bo-Katan for no reason?? Sure it is not a show named after him technically speaking but ffs who just changes main characters like that in the third season?? It was so clearly her show that it completely confused me.
I like what they did, because Din managed to use his brain but yeah, instead of it being his story, it was Bo Katan. It's like he is no longer allowed to have his own plot anymore. Edit: did I just step into a hornet's nest?
@@katherinealvarez9216 Yeah probably they were already preparing for the Bo Katan series coming up, it’s so sad how they don’t care about plots… it’s almost like D and D from Game Of thrones infected everyone after that abomination of a finale on Game of thrones to the point that nobody can write a logical coherent plot anymore… it’s so sad
It’s like they want to stretch it out and therefor they needed basically a filler season. But they had it all set up and season 3 should’ve been treated like a part 3 of a trilogy. They should’ve gone big and just finished it out strong but you can tell they are still going for those awesome plot points we want to see, but they are going to drag it out as long as possible
The Mandalorian is yet another case of an inspired idea that breaks the mold of a stale franchise, only to have the studio come in and remove everything that made it special. I saw the fall coming by season two, but I never thought it would take such a nosedive as season three did.
The biggest issue was they spent two seasons building up a dramatic, heartfelt separation between two characters who grew to love each other yet knew they had to leave for the good of the other and pulled the scene off beautifully...but then undid all of it with no time to let it settle in, no real fanfare, and (most insultingly of all) in another show in a desperate attempt to salvage it. Basically, they screwed over The Mandalorian to try and save Book of Boba Fett and wound up wrecking both. Season 3 never really recovered from what is possibly one of the most literal patch jobs in modern entertainment.
Yep and then they blew Bo Katan out of proportion, they have a Bo Katan series planned but they didn’t need to make the Mandalorian a prequel for that.. dumb stuff
The episode you say is perfect is the episode that ruined The Mandalorian. Luke sweeping in to take Grogu off his path as a Mandalorian was pure fanservice and just didn't work narratively. Everything around Luke was fine, but they literally didn't have an ending to 80% of the storylines. The Boba Fett episodes they gave to The Mandalorian weren't even full episodes. We watched Grogu fail at being a Jedi while Mando slept on a bench for A WHOLE HOUR just so we could say they did it. Luke was a waste of time.
Grogu's payoff was so weak. In the beginning I was thinking is Mando bringing Grogu to a planet full of Yodas? So many possibilities. It turns out he just spends 2 days with deepfake Luke. Don't get me wrong, nostalgia-wise I creamed my pants, but story-wise that was a really weak payoff.
Andor was such a surprise. Hands down one of the best shows I've seen in a long time. They seriously took a character that nobody really asked for to return and established one of the best written, acted, and directed shows. Since the original trilogy, best Star Wars product to be released. Tony Gilroy knocked it out of the park.
Diego Luna can’t act at all. One face for everything. Stellan Skarsgård is good in everything so fair shout there. But you guys must have watched an entirely different show to me. Painfully slow episode to episode, admittedly with an exhilarating finale.
"You must wear your helmet or else you're not a Mandalorian no more." "Actually, some special people can take them off." "The Darksaber proves who will lead the Mandalorians if won in combat." "Oh it's broken? Oh well, it's not *that* important." Quality lore building
In the clone wars Bo catan started a civil war in deathwatch over the succession of the dark saber, why does she care about that relic? She already has loyal followers and clearly is influential enough to unite the clans.
The helmet thing made a lot of sense in the first two seasons because it's treated like a big deal when he takes the helmet off. It's given the appropriate weight that there would be consequences, at the very least to his faith in even being a Mandalorian, to taking the helmet off. It not really mattering in the long run is what's pretty disappointing.
This same level shit was the entire first season including shit like "Lets ride this stupid creature all day instead of getting back into my ship and getting there in 5 minutes" and then there is the "bounty hunter? Bitch im a babysitter" storyline to sell some merch to mouth breathers that wanted a show about a badass and suddenly wanted baby yoda scenes in this IP that cant do a fucking thing that is actually original anymore.
Both of your points are extremely flawed..both explained and synonymous with religions... many sects believe some things, others way more stringent about rules that others don't even have. The issue is kathleen
One thing that threw me off so much was him giving up the dark saber. You can defend it all you want by saying that he "hates being the main character" but the truth is that the entire show has been about him taking responsibility. He took responsibility over Grogu, he took responsibility over a small group of friends, and wherever he goes he takes the responsibility of helping people. In the beginning, he was not that kind of person, he had to learn and grow to get to that point. The next logical step would be for him to take responsibility over his people. But instead, he chucks that responsibility at the nearest terrorist and fucks off to the desert.
@@dutchbosoxfan8919 Nope. That was a missed opportunity to have Din actually take a major leadership role beyond just accompanying whoever it was at the time.
Finally someone mentions how pointless Grogu’s presence in season three felt. He had nothing to do, and you LITERALLY could have cut him from the season entirely and it wouldn’t have changed any of the major plot or character beats. This is especially clear when you see how important he was in the last two seasons. I mean it was pretty obvious he was too popular of a character to not include, but the fact that they couldn’t even come up with a way to work him into the story better is what really annoys me.
I think the obvious thing to do was to have an A story about Din fighting to retake Mandolore & an B story about Grogu in the new Jedi Order. That would keep Grogu in the show without undoing the S2 finale. But I’m 100% sure Disney demanded that Grogu be forced back with Din & made prominent in each episode
@@theclockworksolution8521 I would have rather they’d just invent a new character to hang out with Grogu if they insist on not recasting Luke. But I suspect the directive from Disney was that they immediately return to the old marketable status quo of Din/Grogu … which for me personally, is insulting.
@@TheJadedJames I think that was it. That decision in Book of Boba honestly felt like an illusion being broken, which once the suspension of disbelief is shattered, it's hard to get back. I haven't watched the Mandolorian since B.O.B
@@lordbiscuitthetossable5352 I can’t imagine watching Boba Fett and not thinking “The studio made them do this.” And I’d hate to be someone who went into Mandalorian S3, not realizing Boba Fett was basically mandatory. That was really frustrating. You can’t shove off important story developments like onto a completely different show! If they were going to undo the ending of S2 so quickly, it at least needed to be undone on the actual show
as soon as i finished season 2 of mando, i immediately became super excited about what season 3 could be with the way they left things off. in my head, they had the perfect opportunity to show us a sort of “twisted mirror” version of season 1: mando is alone again, just like in the beginning of the show; but whereas he felt at ease and he had lived most of his life that way when we met him, in season 3 he would’ve had the added experience of having grown alongside another being that he loves. we could’ve seen him not being happy with being alone, trying desperately to fit into the “ruthless bounty hunter” persona again to not confront the immense feeling of loss that giving grogu away left him with. and then they could’ve reunited towards the middle/end of the season, and the show could very well end there. i never even watched book of boba fett, but learning that they absolutely _wasted_ this flawless opportunity they’d set up for themselves to reunite the characters in a completely separate show was… puzzling, to say the least.
Watching book of Boba Fett completely ruined two series in my mind. It scrapped the Mandolorian's momentum and generally didn't lead to any payoff. I am fine with Din choosing not to lead the Mandalorians, it's apparent that the man has no desire to be a leader of an entire culture and could've made an interesting statement of breaking the stagnant cycle of tradition to create a new, much less violent society. Heck, the idea of the Mandolorians choosing to get rid of the Darksaber and all its associated, bitter warmongering baggage could've been an incredible journey, along with Din trying to find a stable way to live so that he could have Grogu back. Yet the primary issue is that no one made those decisions; the Mandolorians discarding their legacy was forced on them by Gideon rather than an active choice by them, and Din needed somewhere to go because he already had everything he wanted. Everything just happened for reasons that had nothing to do with the character's agency or any deeper desires; stuff just happened to push along the episodic narrative and all the active decisions were informed by an antagonist in a last minute rehash of better finales from prior seasons. It just felt immensely lame because it felt like Din had nothing else to offer the narrative, all the soul searching was done by people around him.
Either that, which is a cool as hell concept, or they could’ve played into the rivalry between mandalorians and Jedi and try to build on the idea of Grogu being a bit of both, thus starting a reconciliation between the two cultures when Luke tries to rebuild the Jedi (as George Lucas intended for the original sequel trilogy)
The main issue, in my opinion, will always be that Din is constantly treated as a background character rather than someone who steps up to the plate as a major, legacy character. Instead, he ends up being overshadowed by other characters that DID take that step. He essentially becomes an NPC in someone else’s story.
That's not really a problem, he's like a misterious folk hero that enters town and changes peoples lives, like a Man with no name or Mad Max, that kind of character
I haven't watched the show, but follow reviews and seen some clips...it's apparent to me that Baylan is popular not before the show aired, but because the actor playing him was very good in the role, he brings an air of gravitas...genuine gravitas and not just forced/faked acting to appear more deep than it is.
I don't know what caused this problem, but somewhere along the way, people stopped understanding that every story has to end, and it's better to let them end well than to drag them out until they stop being profitable. The fans keep clamoring for more stories about the characters they already know and love, so that's what we get.
Capitalism. It's like any new and original story HAS to set up a whole universe so companies get the chance of owning a big IP, allowing them to sell merch, create trilogies, series, sagas, or even thematic parks. It's either that or they'll keeping remaking old movies, or continuing franchises or rebooting them. You never know what you'll get: unoriginality, or diluted creativity. Awesome!
The saddest thing is that a lot of these franchises are big enough (lore-wise and popularity-wise) that they could tell stories completely disconnected from the originals and still draw fans in. There’s nothing stopping Disney from pulling a KOTOR and telling a story with only Jedi, Sith, and a few planets in common. Their reliance on pre-established characters and references shows that they don’t trust in the story they’re telling enough to let it stand on its own.
It just seems like the writers were afraid of making Bo-Katan an antagonist, or at least an opposing figure to Din. We have to like both of them so there's no conflict, therefore no stakes.
Ironic, when she started out as an antagonist in Clone Wars, shifted to a 'lesser of two evils', then shifted to another type of 'lesser of two evils but good from a certain cultural point of view', to Ideal Heroine. I wonder what changed?
The problem is, Filoni has an obsession with his characters. The moment they were inserted into Mandalorian O knew the dinamic would shift in their favor and Grogu and Mando would be lost on the shuffle.
The Mandalorian is the show to finally unite the Star Wars-fans again: First by being a pleasant surprise and until disappointing EVERYONE in season 3. Truly a masterpiece.
As much my wife and I love Grogu, we both knew that the reunion between him an mando in BOBF was too early. It could have been made better if Grogu returned on the season finale of S3 and all of his sidekick role in the season was played by R5 since it would still make sense.
I agree with all your points except one: Season 7 had to include Maul for the same reason Disney can't take credit for how good it was: everything was written and set to be released before Disney took over, before Rebels was a thing. In fact, four episodes' worth of Maul's story are still missing from the show, but can be found in a comic adaptation. If they released the episodes tomorrow, it would still be Maul's original story.
Yeah, I’m amazed by how stingy season 7 was. I get they wanted to move on to different projects, but it’s literally nearly free money Still glad we got what we did tho
I remember an ongoing joke in the Mando fandom was saying how much Din wanted to stay a side character in the SW lore. The universe was doing everything to drag him into the "main plot" but Din wasn't having it, he was quite happy doing his bounty hunter thing. And, yeah it was a fun joke, but we all expected him to eventually step up in one way or another, especially when he got the dark sabre and was banished from his clan. Here was a chance for Din to rise up as a new leader who could unite the other mandalorians, sticking it to his ultra conservative clan who banished him for wanting a final farewell eith his adopted son, but none of that happened. The joke isn't funny anymore.
@@MrBazBake People didn't want Din to be the "savior of the galaxy". Din founding his own clan, his own Way to be Mandalorian away from all the ultra-conservative bullshit and power squabbles, would one hundred percent have fit the character. If the writers didn't mean to follow up on the seeds they planted, they shouldn't have planted those seeds in the first place.
yup, but couldn't have him do that, its very much is just can't have strong female character be second to male figure, evident throughout him being saved repeatedly, doing nothing in s3 and cheaply just handing it to her, he has no arc cause he's not the main character - she is
@@MrBazBake Nobody is saying Din needs to be some savior, but a uniter and leader of the Mandalorian peoples. Which was the arc that was being set up in the previous season, which the creators then did nothing with when the third season rolled around.
I think part of the problem is the creator turning it into a hidden sequel to Rebels the cartoon series. Ashoka has done the same thing apparently. Mando was good because it did its own thing. Now it's just a launchpad for spin offs of a cartoon.
@@isaiahchavis783sadly I believe the great era is over its a real shame but i can really see season 4 getting even worse and its honestly not even the same show at all now it’s like marvel setting so much stuff up
Man, I wish we can go back to the days when there wasn't a connected universe. Shows and movies nowadays are burdened with the task of having to set up so much spin offs and sequels and connected properties that it intrudes on the actual story being told. They create spinoffs ahead of time and then cram it in to a good show as an ad, making the formerly good show bloated and immersion breaking. Good spinoff should be the opposite, where we want to see a spinoff of an interesting character because they are a great character with a lot more to tell rather than artificially making them interesting because the execs want to push a spinoff to capitalize on a brand.
Exactly.. and it would be so easy to just make something detached. Just make someone who stays in a corner of the galaxy we didn’t know about before. Or make it in the same place but 1000 years earlier or later with no connection to old characters and plot lines.. it’s not that hard, just don’t have them meet anyone we already know, Star Wars is a strong enough ecosystem to survive without you mentioning legends of the original movies, it’s gonna be fine.
In addition, shows cant have multiple plot threads coming together, as those plot threads get reserved for a spin-off. The Mandalorian would be so much better if it took its time to flash out characters like Bo Katan, Ahsoka and Boba Fett and made their respective arcs affect each other. I think its one of the main reasons why none of these shows are engaging, despite all the references and cameos the character journey is so self contained and unaffected that it doesnt really go anywhere.
My personal theory of a reason they put grogu back in is because they realized “wait, Luke picked up baby yoda? For the temple? The one we showed getting burned down in the sequel trilogy? The one where one of the students murdered all of the other kids there? Oh…yeah we can’t kill baby yoda, get him outta there.”
I had looked at Djin’s issues with the Darksaber as the saber itself feeling rejected by Djin due to him being so quick to give it away. I thought season 3 was gonna be him coming to terms with the mantle of responsibility that comes with wielding the Darksaber, learning to finally accept it, and becoming Mandalore. To say I was disappointed by what happened would be an understatement.
Disney nowadays seems to be allergic to traditional "hero's journey", especially when it comes to male characters. I mean, look at Luke - destroyed deapite bwing a legacy character with established capability of being Good with a big G. Look at Finn - got turned into comedic relief despite having some great potential.
What's worse is that he melted his spear to make Grogu armor. I figured that was because he already had the Darksaber so he didn't need two melee weapons, but now he has none lol.
I'm a younger fan, meaning that I watched the older movies but didn't care about them till now, when I went back and rewatched the films I noticed such a difference in not the story but the little details. The older movies were a love letter to the western films of cowboys and the old samurai films, the newer films utilizes these already established roles of jedi or bounty hunters while failing to execute the same energy that made it so familiar to multiple fans. I think Mandalorian succeeded in using that energy with a new religion and new characters, but it falls flat in the newest season. Taking away from the western vibes
Dude you have no idea how accurate your comment is haha. When I was I kid I had all the extended edition DVDs. From what I remember Han Solo was more or less a space cowboy and all the desert planets were designed with a futuristic western concept in mind. Even Mal from Firefly was loosley based on him and he is literally a space cowboy hahaha _(Also look up and watch Firefly the series and then Serenity the movie if you haven't seen the series)_
Western and samurai vibes because S1 and to a lesser but still prevalent S2 was heavily influenced by the manga 'Lone Wolf and Cub' which some of the imagery is ripped from directly.
I honestly believe Disney’s allergy to ‘controversy’ (i.e.any political ideas) stymied their willingness to be creative. Andor was VERY political, and actually interested in the ideas of Imperialism. People responded to that, not necessarily because of the politics, but because it had stakes and the characters and world felt real again.
Politics don't exist in OT. This is the “struggle” of cartoonish space Nazis blowing up planets for no reason and “the good good ones you have to root for them” rebels retards who are always rebelling against something. Even if it doesn't make sense. Even if Revenge of the Sith makes it clear that Palpatine is not a cartoon space Hitler. Doesn't matter. There must be an "evil evil empire" and "good rebels" trapped in this limbo.
@@captainDJ87Disney+ view counts are famously obscure so I’m not sure what your data is there, other than the famously debunked early season article that went around? On Deadline I think?
The sequel movies were incredibly political. The entire movie is about what happens if you don't maintain the revolution after victory, the forces of reaction will once again rise up under a new private power to destroy you
I loved season 1 and parts of season 2 but when it started getting too overly involved in the rest of the Star Wars mythos instead of just being space outlaw cowboy stuff I was lost.
As soon as I saw Jon Favreau say in an interview that the writers watched reaction videos on UA-cam and said “we should’ve done that” I knew Season 3 would be trash.
Same. I didn't know it was part of star wars (which is good since I don't like star wars) and watched because of the armor, then in the third season it was all about the world building and I stopped watching. It sucks, first season it's so good.
That's honestly the big problem with both Star Wars *and* Marvel. They're trying too much to shoehorn every single series into a massive story that still needs to be coherent. It's too complicated to make everything fit together seamlessly and requires too much work on behalf of the viewer to fully understand what's going on in any given show. Like I watched Multiverse of Madness and was so confused as to why Wanda was suddenly evil and trying to find these random kids she never had...only to find out I needed to watch Wandavision beforehand. We need more titles that are within the established universe, but nice and self-contained with no real relation to anything else going on. I don't want to have to do homework for my entertainment.
This is the trap, right? The thing FSN hates -- the unnecessary overt references dragging a new show back into old stories -- is exactly what Luke Skywalker showing up is. People complain about jumped sharks then buy tickets to the Sea World Waterski Extravaganza and cheer when the sharks are lined up. Seriously: why is reformed Luke still dressed like a Sith almost ten years after Return of the Jedi and all the attempted murder and double force chokings? Because it's how fans remember him dressed at the end of Return of the Jedi. It's empty nostalgia with no narrative significance. There's a reason people talk about Season 3's low viewership but ignore that the last half of Season 2 was even worse. Because Season 3 didn't pander as hard to the fans, so even though more people watched it, fandom complained louder at not getting their references.
On the subject of instant iconography and Han Solo, I thought your point about the Solo movie not needed to be about Solo was pretty right on! Any type of thief like him would have worked well and I thought you were going to bridge it with Mando : Mando is what we hoped a Boba Fett story was supposed to be like (hence when they did the Fett story, it was a big letdown that couldn't survive what Mando achieved). They took Boba Fett and made a show about him but changed his character to a new one - Mando - and explored something else as a story. This to me is the proof your point about Solo needed : it is possible to make an interesting story about a character that reminds us about the legacy ones but is not a legacy one.
My attitude towards Star Wars has become one of apathy thanks to Disney. It's like meeting up with your old best friend from your childhood, one you shared everything with and formed strong emotional bonds with, but then finding that since you last met they've fallen into doing hard drugs, their marriage has collapsed because of their infidelity, they had an alcohol problem and served time inside. The person you knew can still be seen every so often in brief flashes and small moments (Mando season 1, Finn and Po in Force Awakens), but for the most part the person you loved as a brother is largely gone and dead.
The thing that always bugged me about the franchise since The Phantom Menace is that for a galaxy-spanning story the universe just feels so _small._ Everyone knows each other or is related to one another. There are possibly trillions of people in this galaxy, but it is just the same characters appearing over and over. And over. And over.
that works fine in old era cause its about one story, fall of anakin, and skywalkers, but in current disney era has been entirely "hey remember this" no matter the character or story especially when they cameo just to spinoff to their own spin off show - that's when this pretty evident its done cheaply
And you have stillthewater plsnet and tatuiniis having a srace, they do have more than the jedi. At least in phantom manece. And it eing about jediand politisdoes wrk tohit that,okthe pacin is weird and notperfect, but its a political and fall from grce story.
@@marocat4749I think what you’re saying is that Star Wars has become political but like it’s ALWAYS BEEN POLITICAL. Media literacy and apparently writing coherent sentences just isn’t a thing anymore more…🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
Phantom Meance isn't where this issue started. It really started with Rebels and the early Disney era, which exploded with the spinoffs and Disney+ era
I get his frustration about Maul re-appearing in Clone Wars season 7 but we have to remember the whole storyline of season 7 was already set in stone before it got cancelled. Rebels was developed later and then we got the season 7 of TCW so I can understand why Maul appeared in TCW after we saw his death but without Maul, we don't get the greatest storyline of TCW, The Siege of Mandalore and the best light saber fight scene of all time with Maul and Ahsoka
I know it was a joke at first about how one family can be causing so much chaos for the entire galaxy. But man, it really does feel that way. The problem with Star Wars is that this galaxy feels small because we keep following the same characters in the same 30 year tine span.
Brilliantly said. The problem with Hollywood right now, not just Star Wars, is a fear of going beyond the old, beloved characters and creating new stories with new characters.
The fact that Disney admitted they didn't have a road map when making the new trilogy is exactly the reason these movies ruin the franchise.. they're so incoherent and no narratives are followed through
Your breakdown of Solo is exactly why I didn’t watch it - even my housemate said “I hope they don’t show the Kessel Run.” It’s also why I think I enjoyed Rogue One so much. Way more than the new trilogy, but even just as a movie I found it breathtaking and devastating. I didn’t really need the CGI Leia at the end, I was fine. Rogue One does tie into the trilogies but the focus being on new characters was wonderful.
I loved rogue one and honestly the world Last Jedi could have transitioned to where new stories and the names palpatine and skywalker could be legends of heroism and villainism that inspire / create terror while new characters are exploring the universe. The scene showing the force sensitive shop child gave me hope for the franchise to grow and modernize respectfully.
To me, Solo is at the bottom of my star wars ranking merely because I was bored the whole time. It committed the cardinal sin of cinema that is was boring (to me) because we knew Han would be okay, we didn't need to know anything (like Ninja said) and they really didn't try and then tossed in a last minute cameo for no reason. I was in the cinema opening night, and there were 5 people in my screening during prime cinema hours. I've told people unless they're diehard Han Solo fans or don't mind ideas that get dropped, to maybe not watch the movie. It's very disappointing. Also, Rogue One has become my favorite star wars movie ever, purely because it shows the power of the people of the galaxy without the need to have a jedi save the day.
I enjoyed Solo- as SN says it was a fun movie. I really thought they did the lead actor dirty because who the hell wants to step into his shoes...just a bad spot to be in. Although I never thought about the show with just new and different characters that definitely would have been a plus. Lots of the roll your eye moments were exactly as he described- how the dice came to be, why he got the name Solo, etc.
Solo does a lot of things I didn't think I wanted going into it but ended up liking. I didn't want to see the Kessel Run going in but I'm not immune to it being some of the coolest shit I've ever seen.
Imho Solo is the only one of the new movies that i like. It's visual style it was faithful to the original 3 films, unlike pretty much all the other newer sw movies, prequels included. And the story was good.
I'm surprised they had to waste time at all in Season 3. They had two fantastic story lines to go down: Bo Katan retaking Mandalore, and Din gaining a new understanding of his faith. Both go independently to multiple Mandalorian clans, and learning about their cultures. Bo can do this to learn and become a proper leader, Din does this to learn his place in his faith. The season culminates in a close fight between the two for the Dark Saber, with Bo eventually emerging as the victor. Of course, by then, the Dark Saber doesn't _actually_ matter. Bo has already proven herself the rightful leader of Mandalore, and Din has rightfully proven himself a Mandalorian. The saber is just a symbol No Grogu, no Gideon. Just two people learning about and resolving their journeys with their home planet and culture
I sort of agree with this. I think Mando could become the next leader along with/instead of Bo Katan. We've already seen her become queen of mandalore in the clone wars and I don't really want just another retread of that story. I think it makes sense for Mando's overall arc for him to become a leader of sorts or even the owner of the Darksaber. His arc in the first two seasons where he learns to trust people would pretty naturally lead into an arc about becoming a leader with Bo Katan. Also I don't really want them to move on from Grogu. Not because he's cute but because the 2nd season he finally starts to develop some agency and become more than just a cute mascot. It would be a huge shame for his arc to end just as it was beginning. (Though I don't love the idea of Luke doing it since that kind of intrudes on the sequel trilogy and adds more weirdness to that whole "story") I also wouldn't have it happen in The Mandalorian. While Ahsoka training someone is not the story I want in a show about her, the reason she gives why she can't teach Grogu makes no sense for her character but I have a lot of problems with the way they have handled her character recently. They could have easily had the 2nd season end with Ahsoka taking over his training and Mando moving on.
Maul wasn't as much brought back in Season 7 of Clone Wars as much as he was always supposed to be part of that story before the original run of Clone Wars got canceled. He's integral to that storyline. There's comics and books adapting that stuff before the show was picked back up (and before his death in Rebels) so I don't have a problem with it. Season 7 as a whole is just animating a bunch of stuff we already knew went down because characters in other stuff have referenced it. Because they never expected it wouldn't get animated in the first place. I agree about the video in general, that is the big problem with Star Wars, just wanted to point out Clone Wars season 7 is a bit of an exception. Produed later but everything about it was set in stone for years. Him in Solo was terrible though.
Season three should've been a split perspective between Grogu and Dinn, leading up to Grogu taking off from Luke to meet back up with Dinn at the season finale.
To be fair, in defense of CW season 7, Maul was most likely planned to be there anyway before the show's cancellation since he was already ruling Mandalore. Considering Rex makes a passing comment about the siege in Rebels at least shows that this was the story was going to be told before it got axed. Solo had literally no excuse. That was pure fanservice, but I guess him returning in Rebels, albeit for a short time can be seen as well.
I'm one of those fans who think Maul's story ended in The Phantom Menace. What did he really accomplish after that? What did he change in the grand scheme of things? An L take might even call him an insignificant spectator to events that mattered. And it had to be like that in order to keep the canon intact. His return is the most fan service and pointless arc I can think of in Star Wars. I will admit that him teaming up with Savage against Sheev was the high point of the whole Clone Wars but it never mattered because we already knew the outcome. Also, I am biased towards that scene, as a Sheev fanboy, because that was the first and only time he went full beastmode. I mean, live action doesn't do him justice.
@@Sandlund93 he had one of the greates character arcs in starwars across clone wars and rebels wdym. maul wasnt even a character in phantom manace, all of his character came after that
@@Brummhund Yeah, taste is different. Some people like Maul's arc and some don't. I wouldn't call it trash or anything, it just felt pointless and a waste of time. Mostly because they just killed him off again, in a duel I never appreciated, against Obi-Wan. If anything, they should have gone with George's vision and make Maul finally matter in Episode 7-9. Why not have him there instead of Snoke, for example? And then respect the character he had become at that point. Enough to not chop him in half, in such a cheesy way, in the second movie of a trilogy. I mean, Maul getting chopped in 1 is a huge payoff but Snoke getting a similar treatment in 8 just feels cheap and out of nowhere. Without build-up it becomes pointless and annoying. Especially since we had so many questions about Snoke at the time.
Something you didn’t really mention, but they also really undercut the “Mando is a badass” thing in season 3 too. They went for the all too common trope of establishing another character is a badass by having them beat or save your established main character. In doing so I think Bo Katan saved Din from certain death 3 times (at least) in season 3 (other characters too, Grogu for instance, maybe others I forget because it’s been a while since I watched it. When your main character would have died in not for the luck of some other person showing up and saving them, every episode, it really doesn’t feel like they’re a bad ass. It actually makes it hard to suspend disbelief that Din has survived as a bounty hunter in this universe for more than a day.
I completely agree about Solo. I actually liked it and it would have gotten so much less hate if it wasn't about Han Solo. You could have even had Chewy in it because Chewy is allowed to have other friends.
Solo was an absolutely fine movie. The big problem it has is that (probably Disney) wanted it to be a checklist move. As if they literally handed a checklist to the writers of what must be included : how Han left Corellia, how he got those stupid dice (which somehow went from a background prop to a major important relic of his), how he met Chewy, how the life debt came to be, what did he do in the Imperial Navy, how he got his blaster, the Falcon, Lando, Kessel, all that. It was infuriating, because the whole story was woven around that and we didn't need to know any of that. We didn't need a movie dedicated to any of that. I could see a few one shot comics maybe but not a whole movie, because none of it adds anything to Han's character as we came to know him in the OT, in fact it kinda takes away from him, because all that scoundrel who grows a conscience character arc of his from the OT gets undermined saying he was always kinda like that.
@@DonJay00001and here's the thing... I read the old books back in the day, so I read The Han Solo Trilogy by A. C. Crispin. And those books are so much better than the Solo movie. Bria was a far more interesting first love, Han and Chewie's meeting had so much more emotional impact, Han and Lando's meeting helped lay a better foundation for their friendship. By comparison, Solo feels rushed and boring.
As he said, it could have been a whole different character and be better. They could have had the Kessel Run and have the new guy at the end say something like "omg 13 parsecs, it would be impossible for someone to do better!" and have that be the solo conection, that would be all, that would be fun
@@DonJay00001 It's not just that it's a checklist movie, but the answers were stupid and over explained. When he meets Chewbacca and says "That's too long, I'm going to call you Chewy.", that's just content for idiots. Who doesn't know how nicknames work? Nobody meets a person named Christopher and says "That's too long...". We just shorten names like that all the time. In the original series it was just a small detail that displayed a close friendship between them. I can't imagine anyone in the audience ever once wondered why Han called him Chewy.
I was one of those people that didn't finish season 3. By the 6th episode, I knew I read waaaay better fanfictions that had given me what I had expected for season 3 (plus a jedi/mando romance but I knew wasn't going to be canon anyway lol). I feel like the progression was so obvious and that's all it needed to do but Hollywood loves to throw it's fans for a loop, even at the detriment of their product. Like, it's perfectly showed in how Grogu's name is now 'Din Grogu' when fans expected it to be 'Grogu Djarin'. It's such a silly change just to get a one up on fans. We all knew where the story was going, Din was going to be the King of Mandalore and get his people together, but because producers didn't like that fans already knew that, they wanted it changed so that we would all be 'surprised'. At least that's my theory on it. Also about "Solo" and how star wars needs to go for things that aren't connected to the main trilogy, I completely agree. I passed by a sign for 'The Creator' movie and I originally thought it was going to be a new star wars film. I was so super excited because i hadn't heard about it being tied to any other SW product and it was made by the Rogue One creators. Then I found out it wasn't tied to SW. But the point is I found it actually exciting to hear and SW project that didnt deal with main trilogy stuff! They really should take advantage of that.
The reason we remember Star Wars is because it took risks. Early on, it paid off, but even when it didn’t, we still forgive it (eventually) Disney just needs to trust the power of the brand it bought and one of the largest fandoms on earth.
I would say Disney HAD that cheat code, but they almost immediately threw it away when they decided to make the Rey trilogy with zero narrative plan... I feel like the only reason people latched on to the sequel characters so quickly was that - at the time - we were getting a new Star Wars movie for the first time in a literal decade, and so we were super hyped for more Star Wars. Now in the 8 years since Force Awakens, you don't see that instant iconography anymore, because we've been so oversaturated with mostly-bad Star Wars content, Disney's conditioned us to not expect much in the way of quality.
@@zogwort1522 As a geek girl I find this comment insulting. Most of the female SW fans I know, much like myself, hate TLJ and everything that came after. We loved GL Star Wars. Plus, in my opinion, the Kyllo/Rey weird romance plot was inspired by Twilight not HP. Most girls like most boys just want a well written movie with dynamic characters that make sense. Oh, and dont shit in Luke Skywalker. That's true for everyone.
you really hit the nail on his head with this one. i feel like hollywood as a whole really doesn’t know how to let stories end anymore, with the countless remakes and sequels coming out. i’ve noticed it in some fans as well, tho-mostly for the mcu and star wars. i always see so many comments online like “we need a show about x!” “this character deserves a movie!” “i wish they could make a prequel about y!” and while obviously i understands those sentiments, the ones of wanting to know more about a universe and characters you love, it just makes me think that there are people that fundamentally consume art in a different way. just some thoughts i had
Honestly, I think the problem stems from the execs seeing that fan response and going "oh, they want more of _____, give that to them rather than going with a riskier new idea that doesn't have an apparent demand".
Season 3 could have been great! It could have explored themes of religion and different interpretations of the same religion, losing your faith or reconnecting with faith in a new way... it could've explored themes of parenthood like what to do when your child doesn't fit in, or when your child wants to do things that don't fit with your beliefs etc. ... but instead they kinda just did random bits and bobs that felt a bit lacking in meaning or purpose.
Came over after you got a shout out from Schaffrillas and I definitely appreciate your thoughts. I slogged through this the third season and… yeah, you’re pretty much right across the board. Such a frustrating way to continue to the series. Thanks for the extensive thoughts!
the 'star wars problem' is why i'm so mad about how rey was handled in rise of skywalker. her being a nobody- just a child to two deadbeats who sold her for drinking money- made her interesting! it was a genuinely good twist that played into the themes of the franchise well. her story was one about how *anyone* has the potential to rise up in the face of injustice as long as they're brave enough. she didn't *have* to have some tragic backstory or mysterious background. she was rey and that was all she needed to be. to this day i defend a lot of the last jedi because, for a short while, that film told me star wars was gonna go in a new direction and really shake things up with new characters from different backgrounds completely unshackled by the original trilogy, save for kylo ren who now stood as an allegory for refusing to let go of the past to the point of denying one's self. but yeah rise of skywalker completely ruined it for me.
Agree. One of my favorite aspects of Jedi was that her parents didn't matter but nope. Gotta make the universe smaller. Bonus you had a stormtrooper that left the order and could have made him a Jedi but nope. Just make him run after the main character and not have his own agency. Shameful.
Agreed! That was one thing that made sense to me, Jedi aren't all Skywalkers and were never meant to be. Its like they wanted their cake and to eat it too (overuse cliches at this point of the older stuff while trying to act like its all brand new)
I didn't like the "nobody" twist OR the Palpatine twist. The Force Awakens repeatedly asked two questions. "Who are Rey's parents?" and "Who is Rey?" Both questions didn't need to have the same answer. Rey should have been one of Luke's former students that Kylo chose to spare. Kylo's story in the first movie was that he wasn't evil. He did a terrible thing, but didn't enjoy it or think it was right. He doesn't see a way back to the Light Side, so he keeps doing evil in the hopes that it will make him fully bad and he won't have to feel guilt or pain anymore. When Kylo is told that a girl on Jakku helped BB-8 escape, he says "What girl?!" and then throws a tantrum. Imagine this. Luke senses Snoke messing with Ben, and goes to Ben while he's sleeping. Luke senses the dark side in Ben at the same time that Ben is having a Snoke crafted nightmare. Ben wakes up, sees Luke, attacks him, and eventually collapses the roof on Luke. Snoke tells Ben that he's killed Luke, and he'll never be forgiven, so the only place for him is the Dark Side. Ben begins to massacre any of Luke's students that won't join him, until he finds the youngest one. Rey. Ben can't bring himself to kill her, and instead leaves her on Jakku. Rey is talented with the Force because she has already received training. She's not "nobody," but she's special because of her connection to Ben and Luke rather than her parents. Rey foiling Kylo in TFA is Kylo's "weakness" coming back to bite him, so he tries to cut it out of himself by killing his father. The ending of the sequel trilogy would have been stronger if Rey had died and Ben had lived. Ben having to spend the rest of his life atoning for his past by training the next generation of Jedi is more interesting than him simply dying. And Rey dying to defeat the Dark Side. both physically (Palpatine/The Sith), and spiritually (Ben), is more satisfying than her winning every fight without any cost to herself. But people would have pitched a fit if a woman died so that a man could find peace, so Disney would never have had the balls.
@@DrLipkinbut this is still the problem. You mention Luke, training etc. All been done before. Rey was important because she showed there was no need for Jedi, sith etc. That's what the kid at the end of The Last Jedi was meant to show. The Force doesn't care about family lineage. It just is.
I can excuse Maul coming back in Clone Wars season 7 since the story wasn’t released when it was supposed to. The Siege of Mandalore was planned out before Rebels but CW was cancelled. However, I strongly agree he should have not appeared in solo or at least not in the way he did.
Season 1 is actually good, a space outlaw adventure in the wild outer rim of the SW galaxy. Season 2 is good but not as good as 1. Season 3 is way more goofy and silly. I dunno if I can call it good, but if you go into it not expecting much and just laughing at the nonsense, you can enjoy it. However, I still see major problems with it and hope they'll fix them by season 4, otherwise this show is dead. Especially since the only reason mandalorians as a concept are a thing is because of Boba Fett and they already ruined his character.
Bro, THANK YOU! You're the only one I've heard address it & I've literally been saying what you said about treating entire worlds/planets as a "neighborhood" 49:35 FOREVER 😂 Star Wars does that a lot. These video essays are so on point & masterfully well done. I agree with everything said 💯%
Knights Of The Old Republic is a good example of instant iconography. It is set like thousand years before og trilogy and barely does any callback to the og trilogy, but is still considered by many as the best star wars game out there.
Well to be fair KOTOR does callback to the original trilogy with its iconography ie the ebon hawk being basically a red millenium falcon, Revan and Malak's appereances are reminiscent of Darth Vader's, the fact that part of the game takes place on Tatooine (as every piece of Star Wars media does, apparently), etc. However KOTOR isn't nearly as insistent on its callbacks as the sequel trilogy, instead it uses them as a jumping point to tell its own story and do its own thing. It uses the iconography cleverly, the sequels don't.
“Instant Iconography” would be like if Revan, Kreia, HK-47 etc became figments of pop culture before the game released. I would argue that wasn’t the case. The new characters in The Force Awakens were able to pierce pop culture before the movie came out. KOTOR characters are popular only because people played the games.
I agree 100% with your praise of Solo and your take about how Star Wars suffers from connecting everything back to the original characters. But this started way before the Disney era. George Lucas's assistance that poetry rhymes set that template. Making the clones in the Attack of the Clones connected to Boba Fett really set the tone that literally everything connects. Boba Fett was no longer a random bounty hunter but integral to the entire era of intergalactic war. Also, I doubt Solo would have ever gotten written if not starting from the key idea of a prequel to the one major character who wasn't covered in the prequels.
This was what I believe that FSN really missed here. Disney really did not understand what was attractive about Star Wars (the vastness of the scope, the heartwarming connections between the characters, and the melodrama set as a "space opera"), so they tried to basically reboot Episodes 4, 5, and 6 with new characters because they bought into the success of the "rhyming couplets" and they figured that if they don't tinker with anything, maybe they'll recapture the lightning in a bottle. Rather than realizing that the redoing 4/5/6 with new faces and sabotaging the beloved characters was less interesting than actually moving the universe forward -- as had been done in the Expanded Universe Pre-Disney -- they came to the false realization that people don't like the new characters, so Disney should never do anything too new. Mandalorian was "allowed" to break this cardinal rule because Disney figured it would fail anyway, so provided no oversight, and that it succeeded confused Disney to no end. So, if they wanted a heist movie in the Star Wars universe, they were not going to greenlight this unless they knew that people would connect with the lead. And this goes to your point that Solo was ONLY greenlit because it was about Han Solo.
The Boba Fett connection came from a fundamental misunderstanding between Lucas and the fans. It's clear Lucas never really understood why fans liked Boba Fett, and wanted to throw in some harmless fan service. It's honestly the best example of doing it because Jango Fett is the real main attraction, an entirely new character that was always more interesting and developed than Boba, and Boba was someone who you could honestly miss in that film. Disney is where all the real problems began
I remember watching the season 2 finale and thinking to myself "Damn, The Mandalorian peaked early. I wonder how they're gonna ruin it.". I hate how right I was 😭
looking back on it now, i think what made season 2 work with its legacy characters where season 3 sort of faltered was that it used most of them sparingly but smartly, with most of them being present to help din with HIS arc. in season 2, even though we're getting all these familiar faces, it feels like a continuation of the idea in season 1 where din was building his little group of friends who were all loyal to him and grogu. it also did something fairly fresh with a lot of them, recontextualizing who boba fett is, introducing new faces to tattooine with the people of mos espa, making din face his differences with other mandalorians until deciding to trust them. and even as all this was going on, the emotional core of the series was still present: din was protecting grogu, trying to find him a jedi teacher, and when grogu was taken by the empire, the series honed in on how bad that was and made the final two episodes of the season entirely about getting him back. it ultimately felt like the same idea of a fresh story focused on new faces, that also just so happened to involve a few familiar faces as supporting characters. every series since really hasn't done that, relying on the legacy of its main characters and the interconnectivity of the galaxy to drive the plot and its stakes, but mando season 2 at least remembered where the focus was supposed to be and used the rest as a garnish on top of what was already there. the big problem with bo-katan in season 3 is how much of her edge she's lost by this point. even in season 2, she's a bit antagonistic towards din, which makes sense not only because he's basically a cultist, but also because she's a cutthroat character who isn't a hero, but an anti-hero who'd do whatever it takes to reclaim mandalore. she can be honourable, but she can also be just as nasty, especially given her past as a terrorist with death watch. season 3 bo-katan almost feels like an entirely new character that only started to exist during the purge of mandalore; she could have just as easily been replaced by the armourer, who returned to the children of the watch out of shame after handing the darksaber to gideon. the season never touches on her beliefs, never explores her sordid past, never shows the side of her that Would Have Killed Din once upon a time, which makes her becoming a hero by the end fall a little flat because she started as basically a hero.
I'm a pretty casual Star Wars watcher--my partner is a fan boy in every sense of the word. Personally, the best show that's come out of the franchise in the past several years was "Andor" simply because it doesn't treat the audience like we're stupid. It's not on-the-nose about themes--it wants the audience to discover those themes themselves. I haven't watched the third season of Mando, but it's a shame hearing that Disney took a story that had a lot of heart and made it into something that treats audiences like we're stupid again. I wish these big name companies would stop pushing half-assed content onto people just so they can continue to stay relevant in the cultural zeitgeist...
The development of Mandalorian kind of shows Filoni‘s biggest strenghts and weaknesses. The set pieces and camera work are always top notch but you just can‘t recycle every idea and plot over and over again (moreover the idea to let characters from other shows randomly show up to solve problems for our main characters)
Filoni is not even in charge of the mandalorian. Jon Favreau is the show runner and main writer. Directors are different almost every episode as well. The true test will be the Ahsoka show. If Filoni can’t make that work, it’s kinda over lol
Thank you so much for making it clear that a) Clone Wars and Rebels will further contextualize The Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett and Ahsoka and add to your enjoyment, but b) those shows still have to make us care about the characters and make their motivations clear regardless of whether you've seen the other shows first
People don't seem to fully realize that Star Wars is a universe. Like our universe, you don't need to know every ounce of history to understand the situation, but it helps. Let me give an example: The Godfather takes place in 1946. No one complains about plot holes like "The movie never explains what was so important about the war Michael fought in." "I have to do homework just to understand why Italian people are in the US instead of Italy?" "When were car bombs established to be a thing, why skip over something so important to the story?" Often times, a good story will establish the important bits as it goes. World War 2 is fascinating, but you don't 'need' a diploma to understand why the Mafia is reluctant to go to war in 1946.
This was something I already had issue with way back before even Revenge of the Sith came out and the Tartakovsky Clone Wars show was on. I really liked that cartoon, but when I saw that it kinda became necessary watching to find out who General Grievous was since he wasn't really given any real introduction in Revenge of the Sith, I saw that as a real issue of franchise filmmaking.
One of the biggest missed opportunities for me when it comes to the mandalorian is that there's this feeling that the writers are afraid to commit to something. It's like they're loading a previous save because they want to make a different story decision in a video game. How much more impactful would it have been if Grogu had reunited with Mando in the finale of season 3 during the retaking of mandalore, just as the mandalorians are on the edge of defeat, a fleet of jedi and new republic forces swoops in and we see grogu wielding a lightsaber and using the force. How much better would it have been if they had realized that a sole Mandalore is the root of all their infighting and they come up with a dual ruler system where Bo-Katan leads alongside Mando, who is the ambassador to the new republic and forges an alliance with their ancient enemies, the Jedi? Bo-Katan could have kept the dark saber, and Mando could have kept the beskar spear, symbolizing that they are a check and balance to each other's authority and that decisions affecting their people shouldn't be made by just one person unchallenged. I'm not saying they have to be romantically involved with one another, but they could work together to lead Mandalore into a new era of rebuilding and revolutionize their culture from one based on conquest and violence to one based on protection and cooperation with other systems. But instead, Mando has to just ditch the darksaber and deuce out to his cabin with Grogu and Bo-Katan is left to rule over a ruined world with the last dregs of her people. It also begs the question, where are the mandalorians during the sequel trilogy? Did Bo-Katan mess up yet again and lead her people to ruin? Or did they become an isolationist hermit kingdom hiding from the galaxy? If the writers could just let the story grow up by letting Grogu grow up, then it could bring a lot of interesting story elements forward. I firmly believe that Kennedy was PISSED that her little green merchandise machine had been written out of the story, so she demanded that they retcon Grogu's departure in the book of boba fett so they could continue to market the hell out of the little guy.
You're so right about Solo. I heard someone compare it to a fun game of Edge of the Empire (the tabletop version of Star Wars) and y'know what? When I watched it and thought "this is someone's Edge of the Empire game, that's their player character Dan Lolo" it was a great time!
Andor and Rogue One are not only a rarity for Disney Star Wars. It is the anomaly. It is absolutely unfathomable how Gareth Edwards and most of all Tony Gilroy were allowed to create a work with such good, pointed writing, smart structure where actions, reactions and consequences can all be traced back and make sense, everything being shot on location with proper sets and not just using the Volume as a crutch, with the stellar casting and performances delivered as if the actors were in a Martin Scorsese or Ridley Scott film and not popcorn-conveyor-belt-blockbuster-formula of Disney Star Wars AND! AND! Most of all it is insane to me that they were allowed to tell an in your face biting pollical story about oppression and fascism and civil resistance! A story that has something to say, a message, a truth to force the audience think and feel! Instead of the some banal cliché superfluous things the sequels or TV shows had to say for themselves. Mass appeal at its finest. The Mandalorian had potential. It should have been what season 1 was -- episodic western in space. That was its structure and identity. But they tried to make another MCU out of it. And failed.
A really great analysis not only about the fall of Star wars, but also how studios just make a mess with their franchises when they just repeat and not offer something fresh with the rich universes they have.
I hate how with Ahsoka being out.. you’ve got people starting to trash Andor when comparing the two.. Dave Filoni couldn’t touch Tony Gilroy’s writing or dialogue 🤷🏾♂️
Andor peaked of how boring that was, people ended recommend me the last episodes of the show because how boring the first four episodes, and I love political commentary in Star Wars, but Andor was really, really, boring, also not understand how rebellions works, not with pretty speeches, but with action.
But why is it so popular on Reaction channels? And everyone seems to rank it on S tier? Is it really that mass consumable like early marvel and the Avatar movies that it's just shitty popcorn entertainment?
Man what a great video. I appreciate the flow you had from one idea to another. The last thing it was was scattered, it was very well mapped out, thought out, organized, and executed well. What you may consider as scattered (ex: going into Maul, Instant Iconiography, or even Solo) was actually strategically used as evidence and explanation to larger points you were making, & you linked everything well together to have good transition. Im an english teacher so I am basing this comment off of the P.E.E.L Paragraph structure, but if I was grading you, id say this is a 97% hahaha with the 3 percent being lost to lack of conciseness in some areas. But I really enjoyed all details that made up the deemed "lack of conciseness". By the end of the video, I wanted you to keep going & keep talking about star wars. I would love to hear you talk about how season 3 should have gone more!!!
Thank you for this. My excitement about Star Wars died slowly over the last 18 months (Boba Fett, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Mando 3 all had their hands on the pillow smothering it) and it’s so great to hear someone articulate this point so clearly. I recently said on social media that my relationship with Star Wars is on the rocks and that Andor was the only thing keeping that marriage going.
I was positive through everything until Obi-wan. Boba Fett was a mixed bag leaning toward disappointment for me but the way the quality of the Obi-wan show appalled me. Like even the editing, effects (or lack of effects to de-age Anakin) and writing was so poor at moments that I felt like I was pranked or something. I expected Disney to say they accidentally released an older edit of some episodes that lacked effects. I became really jaded since I grew up the Prequels and loved Anakin and Obi-wan so much. I understood how older fans felt about the Sequels then. Since I became jaded, I didn't bother with Andor, which I've heard is really good, and Mando S3. Filoni's writing in Boba Fett has turned me off to giving Ahsoka a chance too. I loved the animated series cast so the live action just takes me out of it. I was a star wars fan most of my life, before the Rise of Skywalker I read most of the new canon novels and comics even. It really sucks.
@@AzayBae I don't think I will ever stop being a fan. Because all the great stuff that came before the dark times, before Disney, will still be with me. I even revisit some of them from time to time, including Episode 1-6.
@@Sandlund93well its not the first time some company that didn't make my favorite property ruined it and flanderized. I feel the same way you do for fallout
I remember the very end of season 2 felt like a red flag to me. Giving up Grogu immediately after the rescue at the last second, the convience of the jedis arrival and the shamless cameo being Luke. I know Ahsoka was introduced for her own show but she didn't feel shoved in your face, but more just some jedi in hiding from Bo-Katans past. The Book of Boba Fett was overall a disappointment for what it could have been, but I do think Din's episodes were good and should have probably been used as a foundation to start season 3 off instead. Because at least it ties the ending of two seasons together and shows us hints of Dins life being unsatisfying now that he's lost his kid. And expand more on Grogu having to find his own agency and explore him wanting to return to his dad alone and make their reunion mean more because we know how far they both went to get back to one another and solidify their choice to stay together as a father and son and round out season 2's development between them. Then start setting up Din's pilgrimage to Mandalore as something sacred between the two of them. And utilize the antagonistic set up of Bo Katan who seeks to take the darksaber out of anger, and the main conflict is between them. A born Mandalorian from a known family seeking to destroy her opponent, but is thwarted because her prejudice against foundlings means she underestimated how skilled and dangerous Din is. Season 1 and 2 are still amazing, I did a rewatch just to make sure I wasnt accidentally delusional about it being so good but no they are unbelievably amazing. I was so hype for season 3 and I literally quit halfway through the 3rd episode (finished it eventually but god it was bad). Season 1 and 2 mean so much to me as shows and were astoundingly good examples of why Star Wars has so much more to offer then the usual roster of jedis, lightsabers, tie fighters, and the sith. It was essentially a western set in the star wars universe not a Star Wars Show. Season 3 was so bad I feel embarrassed saying it's one of my favorite shows because now I have to urgently follow that up with "No only the first 2 seasons I swear". It sucks when your favorite show becomes a laughing stock and you know full well its deserving of the hate. Din Djarin is such a strong main character, better then ones we've had in a long time in Star Wars and they completely misunderstood why, or why his dynamic with Grogu works. We don't like Grogu cus hes quirky and cute, hes cute because they managed to make an emotional and compelling dynamic between an alien baby who cant speak and a stoic and normally silent bounty hunter and their journey of becoming father and son. It was never about the Mandalorians or Mandalore. It was about how those aspects of Din's life influence who he becomes and who that person he is turning into will influence his foundling son. It was a show about a father and son at its core not a show about a mandalorian and a jedi.
Also keep in mind how they could have and just should have Sebastian Stan play the part. He freaking looks like Mark Hamill, a lot of people love him cause Bucky, and it could have set up an interesting trio. A wiser sorta grandpa-esque character in Luke, Mando being the dad, and Grogu as the child. Luke guiding them both in the ways of the force and how to use Lightsabers (Darksaber sorta counts, sue me). You can also have whats her as a reluctant villain, with the opening beingthis upstart zealot outsider being the newfound heir to Mandalore instead of her leading her to turn on Mando or nearly so. But you also have Dinin a weird spot since he broke a major taboo of his sect. Instead of exploring all that let's undo all the build up with Grogu, once again screw over Luke being a wise but troubled and hyper at times mentor instead of an edgelord, AND make Mando a secondary character in his own show cause ACKTUALLY whats her face is also a MandolorianSO THUS. Nah its like Indina Jones again. Could've recast Mutt and had it about Mutt trying to connect with his kid and needing Indy's help. Had it in the 70s where it sorta goes full circle with Indy dying the year the first movie comes out or something. Also setting up for a new main character and Henry Sr. Jr. relationship. Could've had it where Mutt's forte is American relics and idk think he has a lead on lost Mayan or Aztec treasure. Or sorta what we got with the Greco-Roman stuff. But instead of all that it's the same issue of not committing to one thing fully. They want to over-use nostalgia, but they also want to do their own thing. And in not being able to blend them together or commit fully you get gobblygock. Look at OPLA. Yeah the story got remixed cause short-term TV vs. long-term, but it works. While not everyone is a fan I really like the Garp and Koby moments. If they get to a certain part of the story it will pay off well and we will see a similar relationship with Luffy and Blank (albiet we sorta see it with Luffy and Shanks but trust me on this) But that's my point. They had all these interesting mentor-mentoree moments to explore across Star Wars and Indiana Jones, and since TLJ it's like they want to just skip over it or make fun of it. Again, how flipping cool would it have been to see Sebastian Stan as Luke be a mentor for Grogu and Mando? And by the end you have a badass Mando basically lightsaber in one hand plasma gun in the other like some full on Space Pirate Knight. BUT NOOOOO LUKE CANT BE SEEN AS A COMPOTENT MENTOR CAUSE TEEHEE FUDGE HIM. Sorry for the rant it just irks me so much they have all these great things they fumble. Like Obi-wan was in love with that Mandalorian princess why tf not make Rey a Jedi-Mandalore mix and Obi-wan's great-granddaughter? What cause the Force is for everyone? Oh wait no cause the only people that matter are Skywalkers and Palpatines???
The potential conflict between Din and Bo-Katan could've also been made more interesting if they'd explored the clear parallels between them. Both have lost their biological families during the Clone Wars, both found new allies who abandoned them for totally arbitrary reasons related to old Mandalorian traditions, and both are (at the start of the new season) totally alone and adrift with no real purpose and no idea what to do with themselves. Really diving into that aspect of the characters could've made a very interesting story for the season in which these two characters develop a strong rivalry (perhaps encouraged by Gideon, who acts as a Hannibal Lecter type character manipulating them from his prison cell), and over the course of the season realise they have a lot in common with each other, and decide to join forces for a common purpose of some kind. That could've been a very interesting idea that would've made for a more dynamic character-driven story, and it could've been done without totally undermining the emotionally satisfying ending of season 2
I absolutely loved the 1st season of the show. It was so refreshing to see a self contained story in star wars. Then they riddled the 2nd season with a bunch of cameos i didn't care at all about as I haven't watched the clone wars. So I still haven't seen a single episode of 3rd season and as I have heard, it didn't get much better.
I love Clone Wars but Disney really needs to control their cameo tendencies, and yeah I would just accept season 2 finale as the actual end of the series cause not only it gets worse in season 3 I would argue some of the stuff they do undoes previous character development and plotpoints.
Even having seen clone wars as like, my first star wars thing, and having so much nostalgia for it as a result, the cameos were just... the show was just straight up better as something self contained, whether you like the people they brought in or not
Lol no. You’re not gonna sit there and act like season 2 wasn’t bigger and had way better ratings than season 1, oh boo hoo they had an Ahsoka & Luke cameo even though it made perfect sense. Cry about it. Nothing ever makes you fans happy
I fell asleep on Episode 1 in the movie theater at least twice. The first time I remember on the drive home talking about how I heard Maul died but he actually didnt and the entire car got real quiet.
It wasn't Rey and Kylo Ren who gained massive popularity prior to the release of The Force Awakens. It was both Finn and Kylo Ren. Disney released a short teaser trailer for TFA that showed Kylo Ren igniting his lightsaber and Finn igniting the blue lightsaber shortly before their fight in the snow forest. This teaser blew up immediately, and fans online were quick to theorize if Finn was the main character in the sequel trilogy, and discussions were happening on how cool Kylo Rens design and lightsaber was. Finn specifically garnered immense responses, good and bad, but most of the conversations around his reveal were positive. No one was talking about Rey. No one even knew how significant her character was at that point, and i remember because i was one of those people, along with my sister having these conversations and theories. Rey didn't become popular until after TFA was released. Kylo Ren and Finn became popular because of the teaser trailer.
It was a real miss step in making Ray the main character. Finn was the perfect setup. Going from a common foot soldier to a true freedom fighting Jedi would've amazing. There were so many things you could do with it. Like having him not kill other stormtroopers because he knew what it was like being taken from your home and being force-fed propaganda so when he's faced with inevitable stormtrooper deaths, he has a lot of inner turmoil. Having him come to terms with the fact that a lot of the things he was taught were very biased and straight-up lies. Throughout the trilogy, he could become a living legend amongst the storm troopers, eventually leading to a full-blown revolution in the final movie. There are so many ideas, and this is just from the top of my head.
@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034 I wholeheartedly agree. Everyone involved in creating the sequel trilogy, apart from the actors themselves, really dropped the ball when it came to Finns character. He has the most potential for a great Star Wars character with an intriguing setup, and yet Disney, Kathleen Kennedy, and JJ Abrams disregarded that. That had lightning in a bottle and instead chose to throw it away.
As someone that never lost the mental image of IG-88 brutally murdering his way out of the lab where he was constructed in the Legends bounty hunter anthology; the scene of IG-11 clearing out the base with Mando was worth the entire show existing imo.
@@scribeslendy595 IG-11's arc was perfect and very rare example of letting a popular character go, although again in S3 they tried to bring him back somewhat because he was popular (which of course sucked)
What you said about Solo is so spot on. The reason why Rogue One works is because it is an one off with new characters. It is just a refreshing movie with new likeable characters. Solo should have been about another bounty hunter. Han Solo is iconic already and should be put to rest already.
"new likeable characters" I literally don't remember a single character for that movie, except Cassian, and that's only because they made an entire show about him. He was completely forgettable in R1 along with the rest of the cast.
@@blackjackal8770 I know who K2S0 is, but I can't really remember any of his lines, just that he was pretty run of the mill comedic relief for a modern movie. I have no recollection of who Chirrut and Baze are, at least not by name. Krennic was alright but he didn't do much and was completely overshadowed in his own role by Vader. To be fair, I've only seen the movie twice, but I can still usually identify memorable characters in a good movie after only two viewings. Rogue One was a very decent movie with very forgettable characters.
This was a BRILLIANT long-form video essay! I came from your Flash video and I LOVE the way you storytell! I couldn't agree more with all of the points you touched on in this video! Keep up the great content work! Cheers!
I didn't personally have a problem with Grogu rejoining the series because they set up a new plot for him. Grogu choose to become a Mandalorian instead of a Jedi while still having to train with the force. I thought season 3 was going to focus on Mando and Grogu as the got to really develop their relationship as parent and child now that they could without an impending goodbye, while also diving into what it meant to be a Mandalorian after the fall of Mandalor. This would also allow for the character arc they set up for Din at the end of The Book of Boba Fett where he redefines himself as a Mandalorian and deals with the current state of the Mandalorian people. Actually watching Grogu train to become a Mandalorian instead of having that relegated to like a couple of scenes over the course of the season could have been really cool, especially because Grogu would have been one of the like three Mandalorians in all of Star Wars history to have Jedi training and use of the force. Which would have also tied into the history of the Darksaber. They set up such a good story and then threw it down the drain.
I think this is a great video and I agree with almost everything you said about S3. The one slight quibble I have is the concept that Din/ Grogu’s story (best) ended in the S2 finale. I think there were many little things dropped in S1 and S2 (and The Book of Boba Fett) that could have been launching pads to really explore the story in S3 that Grogu didn’t belong solely with the Jedi (and away from Din), just like Din didn’t entirely belong in Mandalorian culture. They were both lost children who initially found homes in a faith that gave them protection and comfort, but because of their sad pasts, they also needed the sense of family and belonging that they could only get from each other, as a family of two. S3 didn’t let that theme breathe at all-just plopped the adoption in the last few minutes of the last episode, but The Book of Boba Fett really did show (in 2 great episodes) how miserable they were without each other, and you could see that would be the inevitable result of their separation in the S2 finale. So I would have been infinitely bummed if their story had ended there.
Love the whole video, and especially your tangent/rant. Because that highlighted all the problems I have with Star Wars. And honestly, I think the whole franchise really hit the problem on the head on its own with one line. "Somehow Palpatine has returned."
Sheev is my favourite Star Wars character and even I understand that bringing him back after Episode 6 was a mistake. But for some reason it worked with Maul, so that's probably why they thought they could get away with it. His death was just as final in The Phantom Menace as Sheev's death was in The Return of the Jedi. But the fandom was so thirsty for more Maul content that they didn't realize their own hypocrisy. His return might have been explained a little bit better but not much. And the Maul moneygrab started before Disney took over, I'm actually surprised that they didn't capitalize on him beyond Rebels. But they probably plan to, with some crime lord shenanigans that end up utterly pointless.
With the whole instant iconography and making new characters with new stories, it sounds a lot like what Warhammer 40k does: having a consistent (albeit confusing) storyline. Yet also being the setting for a wide variety of incredible and engaging stories that have very little to do with the main story.
You make some good points about “instant iconography” and not telling new stories. It’s one of the reasons why Visions is the only piece of Star Wars content I watch anymore. Though it’s not the primary reason. My primary complaint with modern Star Wars is making the previous story pointless. This to me is the ultimate problem that stems from The Sequel Trilogy. The rebels fought so hard to destroy the empire, it comes right back just called The First Order, Luke has a character arc about becoming a Jedi and reviving the order, well he looses all that and the Jedi order just goes away again and needs to be revived again, Palpatine was defeated by his own arrogance, while he just comes back too. It doesn’t matter how much sense that makes, it’s disappointing to be invested in something and for it to lead to nothing especially after the arc seemingly finished. There’s also the question of attachments that never gets answered. The Jedi of the prequels had a no attachment policy, Anakin was a great Jedi and general with many accomplishments because he was motivated by protecting people, then he grew dissatisfied with the no attachments rule because it told him to ignore his feelings and he turns to the dark side, Luke became a Jedi and spared Vader and brought him back despite Obi Wan and Yoda telling him that wasn’t possible. What should have followed that was an answer to the question of how much caring is too much? Where is the boundary between love and compassion and a selfish attachment or desire for control or power? How do you not become too attached or detached to avoid the mistakes of the prequel era Jedi or the mistakes of Anakin/Vader? Disney will never answer that question because in addition to making the previous trilogies pointless it also just retold the original trilogy but worse. Lastly there’s the unending milking of legacy characters that happens to every mainstream ip because money. I’m now way more careful in terms of what media I engage with because of this experience and I avoid mainstream stuff way more than I used to.
Two points: -First: The thing about SW not being able to tell new stories with new characters. That is not a Star Wars problem, that is a US movie industry problem. Everything is a remake, a prequel, a sequel (but really just a remake) and everything has to be connected to the past. The only (well known) guy in Hollywood that is still creative is Tarantino. And Disney is at the very core of this. -Second: I think people completely misunderstood the move from Disney to buy SW. They needed a cash cow. There was never any love for the story or connection to the fans or anything. And you can see that very clearly from the start and how they treated SW EU canon and how they didn't even have a plan for the trilogy. It was never supposed to be good. They just needed a cash cow and content for their doomed streaming platform. That's all.
For sure, the movement in a lot of places is to buy properties and amass a "portfolio" based on profitable IP. That's Microsoft buying up a bunch of game studios to keep under its umbrella, and that's Disney buying up a bunch of properties to just churn out content, regardless of quality. As long as it makes money. I do hope there is a reckoning over this strategy, because OUR zeitgeist, OUR spaces to talk about media online are just being muddied with corporate half-baked efforts all for the sake of "well we have to keep our shareholders happy with more money more often"
When season one came out I thought, “Finally! An episodic space western like we’ve all been wanting!” But it turns out the creators didn’t know what they had. I think they got lucky, but this wasn’t their intention. They didn’t sit around and decide that their next project would take shape after listening to the fans. This was just a shot in the dark that happened to lineup with what the fan base desired. There’s no one in control who actually understands Star Wars, or the fanbase. They just get lucky sometimes.
Can someone pass this video on to Disney management please? they need to hear this. Watching this confirms my fears for season 2 Andor, Disney seemed to keep their hands off the first season & then when they found out how much fans loved it & gave it a legit critical hit, I’m really worried they are going to destroy Andor this season now.
I have been saying the same thing about Solo for years! I was actually excited to see Alden Ehrenreich take on the character of Han Solo, but after I saw it, I couldn't help thinking how much stronger the story would have been if they had just made an original story like they did in Rogue One, it would have been SO much stronger. I told everyone "It's just a fun heist movie" but most people I talked to didn't care because of how "wrong" they felt the character of Han was in the movie.
I disagree on the part of Star Wars fans flocking over entirely new characters simply because of the instant iconography. Andor was finally a Star Wars show that didn't have to revolve around characters we've seen multiple times and yet it was the lowest-viewed SW show. In the meantime, other Star Wars shows that relied HEAVILY on linking back to past SW characters got way more buzz and eyes regardless of quality. As much as I hate to say it, most Star Wars fans really are that nostalgic and attached to the past, which would explain why Disney is afraid of breaking out of that system.
I completely agree. I think that part of the problem is Star Wars fans themselves. Like fans went apesh*t when Luke made that cameo in the Mando S2 finale (don’t get me wrong, I loved that episode too). And yet when Disney finally delivered a good, self-contained Star Wars story like Andor, most fans didn’t care about it and some even said that it “didn’t feel Star Wars enough”
I think alot of that is because disney, and who they have directing and writing. We will sit through a trash shows for beloved characters like Obi-won knowing it's aweful but not willing to suffer through it without those ties. Cal ketsis is one of my favorite characters in star wars now and he's a new addition, the game developers seemed to get star wars more than any show runner has for disney.
To be fair, the only reason I didn't watch Andor is because I was fatigued of Star Wars, as I imagine many people were at that point. It's not the show's fault, but no one was really in the wrong for not wanting to watch more Star Wars media for different reasons. It came out at a bad time.
@@Narp99I can kinda get the not star wars enough thing. Lightsabers duels and the force is what comes to mind when you think starwars, it's what drew me in as a kid and made me love it. Andor only appeals to established starwars fans.
Disney wasn't afraid to break the system it was because they didn't respect the past and thought they could do better and look at what happened and if you knew that the reason why the older fans are that way it is because the EU spanned decades in story and it centered around Han, Luke and Leia's advantages, the growth of their families and the rise of the New Republic and the birth of Luke's new Jedi Order and the many threats that came their way. Plus in the EU there were many new characters that came along and we fell for them almost as quickly as we did with the OG characters. Do your research and will get the full scope of why fans(old and new) are pissed off with Disney's violation of this legendary IP.
That's a great point about the franchise's ability to create iconic characters, but I think that often happens by accident and it's not always predictable what will catch on with the public. No-one expected Baby Yoda to be such a big thing and it kind-of caught everyone off guard. But when they've tried to shove iconic "cute" characters onto the audience - thinking of Porgs and Babu Frick here - it hasn't worked at all, it was so forced (no pun intended) no-one bought into it.
My biggest issue with star wars overall is that it's supposed to be a lot of galaxys but through the fact that everything connects, you always see someone it feels like the world lives in a 500 person neighberhood.
Orson Wells said: "If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." So I choose to finish the mandalorian story at the end of season 2.
when he was talking about it, i was like ... wait, that's the whole Disney's business plan for years(past and future), just selling us nostalgia and extended universes for everything starting from Snow White
@@GalinaEvPretty much. It’s sad really. Disney is so insecure about making money with some of the biggest franchises in the world they refuse to do anything that hasn’t worked at some point in the past. I mean fuck the sequel trilogy is half incoherent nonsense and half unfiltered nostalgia bait and with very few exception that has been the model of 95% of Disney Star Wars.
Between seasons 2 and 3 of the mandalorian I got really attached to the idea of reluctant mand'alor din djarin. The fact they used a cop out to get him out of the position made me mad. Also, I kind of felt like they were aiming toward a din/bo-katan romance and just as I was kind of warming up to it a little it was completely dropped. Also also, the way they dropped din into book of boba fett was handled poorly. I was so goddamn stoked when I heard the mandalorian theme at the end of episode 4, you wouldn't believe it! but the plot came to a complete halt for like 2 episodes just so we could see where din was... just imply it! Let the audience think for themselves!! Or tell us in flashbacks or something that doesn't slam the brakes on the plot. I had the same issue with the dr. pershing subplot of season 3 of the mandalorian.
I’ve gotten back into Star Wars recently after playing jedi: fallen order and jedi: survivor. Two amazing stories and they got me to watch rebels for the first time and now I’m rewatching clone wars. I’m excited to see where Ashoka goes because I’ve been really enjoying it so far! Mando season 3 was disappointing tho.
Bro, you are so right about them not knowing Grogu was going to be so popular. I don't know how they couldn't see it. Halfway through the first season, I went online because I wanted anything I could find of Grogu, like a stuffy or something like that. I literally could not find anything at all except very expensive handmade things on Etsy or sites like that. How big of a ball they dropped not getting merch out during the season. Very bad marketing from a franchise known for over-saturating the market with Star Wars shit. I was dumbfounded, someone had better been fired or hired after that billion-dollar mistake.
same with kylo ren, easily the most popular sequel character they could've made more money off redeemed as ben solo.. you'd expect better from disney smh
Ironically the point you made about wanting a star wars story that had nothing to do with the original trilogy and was from a complete new era or time period, is exactly what I thought The Mandalorian was going to be when I started watching it in season 1. Think about it. If the baby yoda character in the show had actually been Yoda, then according to what we know about how his species age, his origin story would have taken place 1000 years or so before the original trilogy which is what I thought I was watching in the first couple episodes, until of course it wasn't. What a missed opportunity
Okay, but Disney chose the WORST date for Solo to be released. They chose to premiere it between Infinity War and Deadpool 2 and not in December, like the rest of the Star Wars movies. Why? WHY? It doesn't make sense, they failed Solo so hard in so many ways and it was indeed a very fun movie.
@@source3nergy203 It wouldn't be that close if they had released it in December and not in May. It would be a year after The Last Jedi, yes close, but nothing crazy. Roque One came out in 2016 and The Force Awakens in 2015, but they came out both in December. Releasing it less than 5 months after the last Star Wars movie and in between two of the most awaited movies of the year was a plain dumb move. And it is crazy bc Infinity War was also Disney, don't they like money? Why not keep it for December, like every Star Wars movie since 2015, where there wasn't much competition? I really do not understand this thought process.
@@source3nergy203 Then release it on May fourth and not a week after that? The premier was May 10nth, two week after Infinity War and two Weeks before Deadpool 2. The whole marketing for the movie was messy to say the least.
The biggest problem that I have with Season 3 is that it feels like they were building up Din to be a figure that would unify his people and bring back the Mandalorians from the brink of becoming a dead culture in a few generations, like he would have to struggle with the idea of having to do something he never wanted to do which was to lead for a greater good, like to me the fact that he struggled to wield the Dark Saber was part of that idea. The more he rejected assuming the mantle of Mandalore the less capable he was at fighting and he would eventually accept the mantle and become the unifier of his people, him being a foundling which means he wasn't born into a mandalorian house but rather that he was a person who became mandalorian through his upbringing to me was a much more impactful message, also I am always annoyed by how homogenously human the Mandalorians are even though it isn't uncommon for non human children to be adopted by mandalorians, anyways as I was saying him assuming the mantle would have been the moment where the Mandalorian Culture is seen as thriving to its fullest extent, we didn't need Grogu or any character other than those characters that are mandalorian. To me at least when they starting positioning Bo as the leader of Mandalore once again was when I was really loosing interesting because to me she was mostly a mentor to Din, someone who has made mistakes and teaches others how not to commit them anymore, but it feels like the writers just don't learn, she already tried to rule Mandalore only for the planet and its people to be destroyed by the empire, the story of The Mandalorian stopped being about Din and it became about a legacy character that while it was cool to see them I wasn't there for their story, I wanted the story of Din because it felt like it still had parts of it that were crucial still untold.
Your instant iconography hypothesis is really solid. Though, regarding Solo... whilst I like your idea a lot, I don't think Solo bombed because of that. I think it was backlash from TLJ, which was still fresh on everyone's mind. See, I don't think Disney Lucasfilm truly understands how Star Wars "marketing" actually works. Every family has that one or two people (could even be the kids) who are really into it. They end up introducing it to their family. I'd taken my daughter to The Last Jedi, and neither of us liked it very much. I don't *hate* the movie, but it certainly wasn't a very good movie. Later we went to see the family for Christmas, and they asked "What movie should all go see togehter? Want to see Last Jedi?" They thought me and my kid (who was really into Clone Wars, she introduced me to that) would say yes. But, we were like. Nah. So, we went to Murder on the Orient Express instead. My point being, Disney lost out on 8 ticket sales (plus the 2 from earlier viewing) because of that movie. When Solo came out, I feel that the half of the fandom that really didn't like TLJ...not only did they not go. They didn't encourage others to go as well. And, that's what I think is what caused the bomb. When I finally watched it, years after release, I agree with you. It's actually pretty darn fun. I also agree that the spin off concept, be it shows or movies, would have been really cool as well.
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can you review Ahsoka to ?
They fucking got him
We do not shame you, king
That bag must have been heavy. How much money do these RAID guys have?
No.
Going into season 3, I was so ready and excited to watch Din go through almost an Aragorn-like arc of going from this outsider warrior to begrudging ruler. and then for them to just.... not commit to any of the incredible plot points they had set up during the season 2 finale was just so disappointing
Likewise. That was what I was expecting after finishing season 2. I had so many ideas on how they could have gone about this and it made me excited! Unfortunately, they just had to...... ruin that setup.... I think it was such a slap in the face. Not to mention, they just replaced Din with Bo-Katan for no reason?? Sure it is not a show named after him technically speaking but ffs who just changes main characters like that in the third season?? It was so clearly her show that it completely confused me.
I like what they did, because Din managed to use his brain but yeah, instead of it being his story, it was Bo Katan. It's like he is no longer allowed to have his own plot anymore.
Edit: did I just step into a hornet's nest?
@@katherinealvarez9216 Yeah probably they were already preparing for the Bo Katan series coming up, it’s so sad how they don’t care about plots… it’s almost like D and D from Game Of thrones infected everyone after that abomination of a finale on Game of thrones to the point that nobody can write a logical coherent plot anymore… it’s so sad
@@ja_u maybe they can put that in the new contract, "Let us do our jobs!"
It’s like they want to stretch it out and therefor they needed basically a filler season. But they had it all set up and season 3 should’ve been treated like a part 3 of a trilogy. They should’ve gone big and just finished it out strong but you can tell they are still going for those awesome plot points we want to see, but they are going to drag it out as long as possible
The Mandalorian is yet another case of an inspired idea that breaks the mold of a stale franchise, only to have the studio come in and remove everything that made it special. I saw the fall coming by season two, but I never thought it would take such a nosedive as season three did.
So true
Well said. I got worried by season 2 but season 3 was such a drastic drop in quality it's kind of embarrassing. Felt like a parody of itself.
What?! Season 3 was the best, next to Book of Boba and Ahsoka (She/Them) masterpiece. Try to overlook Bany Yoder and be more inclusive.
@@lunarvision Found the Disney plant.
@@lunarvisionthe entire show sucks watch the cartoons instead there way better fuck all these shows
The biggest issue was they spent two seasons building up a dramatic, heartfelt separation between two characters who grew to love each other yet knew they had to leave for the good of the other and pulled the scene off beautifully...but then undid all of it with no time to let it settle in, no real fanfare, and (most insultingly of all) in another show in a desperate attempt to salvage it.
Basically, they screwed over The Mandalorian to try and save Book of Boba Fett and wound up wrecking both.
Season 3 never really recovered from what is possibly one of the most literal patch jobs in modern entertainment.
Yep and then they blew Bo Katan out of proportion, they have a Bo Katan series planned but they didn’t need to make the Mandalorian a prequel for that.. dumb stuff
The episode you say is perfect is the episode that ruined The Mandalorian. Luke sweeping in to take Grogu off his path as a Mandalorian was pure fanservice and just didn't work narratively. Everything around Luke was fine, but they literally didn't have an ending to 80% of the storylines.
The Boba Fett episodes they gave to The Mandalorian weren't even full episodes. We watched Grogu fail at being a Jedi while Mando slept on a bench for A WHOLE HOUR just so we could say they did it. Luke was a waste of time.
@@MrBazBake I mean, you're free to have that opinion but the numbers don't lie; it's the single highest rated episode of the entire series.
@@ja_uword
Grogu's payoff was so weak. In the beginning I was thinking is Mando bringing Grogu to a planet full of Yodas? So many possibilities. It turns out he just spends 2 days with deepfake Luke. Don't get me wrong, nostalgia-wise I creamed my pants, but story-wise that was a really weak payoff.
Andor was such a surprise. Hands down one of the best shows I've seen in a long time. They seriously took a character that nobody really asked for to return and established one of the best written, acted, and directed shows. Since the original trilogy, best Star Wars product to be released. Tony Gilroy knocked it out of the park.
Diego Luna can’t act at all. One face for everything. Stellan Skarsgård is good in everything so fair shout there. But you guys must have watched an entirely different show to me. Painfully slow episode to episode, admittedly with an exhilarating finale.
"You must wear your helmet or else you're not a Mandalorian no more."
"Actually, some special people can take them off."
"The Darksaber proves who will lead the Mandalorians if won in combat."
"Oh it's broken? Oh well, it's not *that* important."
Quality lore building
In the clone wars Bo catan started a civil war in deathwatch over the succession of the dark saber, why does she care about that relic?
She already has loyal followers and clearly is influential enough to unite the clans.
To be the devil's advocate, Mando's clan seems to be an exception with the helmet thing if other Mandalorian clans are anything to go by.
The helmet thing made a lot of sense in the first two seasons because it's treated like a big deal when he takes the helmet off. It's given the appropriate weight that there would be consequences, at the very least to his faith in even being a Mandalorian, to taking the helmet off.
It not really mattering in the long run is what's pretty disappointing.
This same level shit was the entire first season including shit like "Lets ride this stupid creature all day instead of getting back into my ship and getting there in 5 minutes" and then there is the "bounty hunter? Bitch im a babysitter" storyline to sell some merch to mouth breathers that wanted a show about a badass and suddenly wanted baby yoda scenes in this IP that cant do a fucking thing that is actually original anymore.
Both of your points are extremely flawed..both explained and synonymous with religions... many sects believe some things, others way more stringent about rules that others don't even have.
The issue is kathleen
One thing that threw me off so much was him giving up the dark saber. You can defend it all you want by saying that he "hates being the main character" but the truth is that the entire show has been about him taking responsibility. He took responsibility over Grogu, he took responsibility over a small group of friends, and wherever he goes he takes the responsibility of helping people. In the beginning, he was not that kind of person, he had to learn and grow to get to that point. The next logical step would be for him to take responsibility over his people. But instead, he chucks that responsibility at the nearest terrorist and fucks off to the desert.
Or...he showed responsibility by giving up the dark saber to someone who is much better suited to lead his people?
@@dutchbosoxfan8919 Nope. That was a missed opportunity to have Din actually take a major leadership role beyond just accompanying whoever it was at the time.
Din seemed pretty clearly on the road to becoming a leader, shame the writers didn't find that interesting enough
@@dutchbosoxfan8919bo katan literally got the ability to lead mandalore twice and failed. She ain't it
@@dutchbosoxfan8919 Anyone who watched Bo-Katan in the Clone Wars show knows she is _not_ suited to lead the Mandalorian people lmao
Finally someone mentions how pointless Grogu’s presence in season three felt. He had nothing to do, and you LITERALLY could have cut him from the season entirely and it wouldn’t have changed any of the major plot or character beats. This is especially clear when you see how important he was in the last two seasons. I mean it was pretty obvious he was too popular of a character to not include, but the fact that they couldn’t even come up with a way to work him into the story better is what really annoys me.
I think the obvious thing to do was to have an A story about Din fighting to retake Mandolore & an B story about Grogu in the new Jedi Order. That would keep Grogu in the show without undoing the S2 finale. But I’m 100% sure Disney demanded that Grogu be forced back with Din & made prominent in each episode
@@TheJadedJames ikr. They could’ve then kept both Grogu and weird AI Luke for fanservice. It seems like a no-brainer.
@@theclockworksolution8521 I would have rather they’d just invent a new character to hang out with Grogu if they insist on not recasting Luke. But I suspect the directive from Disney was that they immediately return to the old marketable status quo of Din/Grogu … which for me personally, is insulting.
@@TheJadedJames I think that was it. That decision in Book of Boba honestly felt like an illusion being broken, which once the suspension of disbelief is shattered, it's hard to get back. I haven't watched the Mandolorian since B.O.B
@@lordbiscuitthetossable5352 I can’t imagine watching Boba Fett and not thinking “The studio made them do this.” And I’d hate to be someone who went into Mandalorian S3, not realizing Boba Fett was basically mandatory. That was really frustrating. You can’t shove off important story developments like onto a completely different show! If they were going to undo the ending of S2 so quickly, it at least needed to be undone on the actual show
as soon as i finished season 2 of mando, i immediately became super excited about what season 3 could be with the way they left things off. in my head, they had the perfect opportunity to show us a sort of “twisted mirror” version of season 1: mando is alone again, just like in the beginning of the show; but whereas he felt at ease and he had lived most of his life that way when we met him, in season 3 he would’ve had the added experience of having grown alongside another being that he loves. we could’ve seen him not being happy with being alone, trying desperately to fit into the “ruthless bounty hunter” persona again to not confront the immense feeling of loss that giving grogu away left him with.
and then they could’ve reunited towards the middle/end of the season, and the show could very well end there. i never even watched book of boba fett, but learning that they absolutely _wasted_ this flawless opportunity they’d set up for themselves to reunite the characters in a completely separate show was… puzzling, to say the least.
Watching book of Boba Fett completely ruined two series in my mind. It scrapped the Mandolorian's momentum and generally didn't lead to any payoff.
I am fine with Din choosing not to lead the Mandalorians, it's apparent that the man has no desire to be a leader of an entire culture and could've made an interesting statement of breaking the stagnant cycle of tradition to create a new, much less violent society. Heck, the idea of the Mandolorians choosing to get rid of the Darksaber and all its associated, bitter warmongering baggage could've been an incredible journey, along with Din trying to find a stable way to live so that he could have Grogu back.
Yet the primary issue is that no one made those decisions; the Mandolorians discarding their legacy was forced on them by Gideon rather than an active choice by them, and Din needed somewhere to go because he already had everything he wanted. Everything just happened for reasons that had nothing to do with the character's agency or any deeper desires; stuff just happened to push along the episodic narrative and all the active decisions were informed by an antagonist in a last minute rehash of better finales from prior seasons. It just felt immensely lame because it felt like Din had nothing else to offer the narrative, all the soul searching was done by people around him.
Man, that concept of the "twisted mirror" would've been so interesting, excluding the concept of them reuniting, I was never a fan of that
There's nothing to be excited for in this series
Either that, which is a cool as hell concept, or they could’ve played into the rivalry between mandalorians and Jedi and try to build on the idea of Grogu being a bit of both, thus starting a reconciliation between the two cultures when Luke tries to rebuild the Jedi (as George Lucas intended for the original sequel trilogy)
The main issue, in my opinion, will always be that Din is constantly treated as a background character rather than someone who steps up to the plate as a major, legacy character. Instead, he ends up being overshadowed by other characters that DID take that step. He essentially becomes an NPC in someone else’s story.
That's not really a problem, he's like a misterious folk hero that enters town and changes peoples lives, like a Man with no name or Mad Max, that kind of character
Then dont call it The Mandalorian. Such a dumb excuse @@TheDRODOR
@@jimmy22334 then dont call it Mad Max, or Yojimbo, or..whatever else
@@jimmy22334 also the show it's called The Mandalorian, not Din Djarin
@@TheDRODORlmao it's called The Last Jedi not Luke skywalker
Ahsoka is really proving the “Instant Iconography” part. They create Baylen and now he is everyone’s favorite antagonist since Vader
That’s probably bc he’s one of the very very few interesting antagonists in Star Wars lol
I haven't watched the show, but follow reviews and seen some clips...it's apparent to me that Baylan is popular not before the show aired, but because the actor playing him was very good in the role, he brings an air of gravitas...genuine gravitas and not just forced/faked acting to appear more deep than it is.
@@MedalionDS9 Yeah, he was good in Black Sails too. Even Rome from 2005. But he passed away a couple of months ago.
Wait wtf Baylen?!
@@devin6079Vader, Palpatine, Dooku, Maul, the Stormtroopers, and many others send their regards.
I don't know what caused this problem, but somewhere along the way, people stopped understanding that every story has to end, and it's better to let them end well than to drag them out until they stop being profitable. The fans keep clamoring for more stories about the characters they already know and love, so that's what we get.
"Just tell your story and go."
hollywood's desperation to run every single good story into the dirt until it's a desiccated worthless husk is so frustrating. just let something end!
Hollywood loves milking cows (IPs) to death.
Capitalism.
It's like any new and original story HAS to set up a whole universe so companies get the chance of owning a big IP, allowing them to sell merch, create trilogies, series, sagas, or even thematic parks.
It's either that or they'll keeping remaking old movies, or continuing franchises or rebooting them.
You never know what you'll get: unoriginality, or diluted creativity. Awesome!
The saddest thing is that a lot of these franchises are big enough (lore-wise and popularity-wise) that they could tell stories completely disconnected from the originals and still draw fans in. There’s nothing stopping Disney from pulling a KOTOR and telling a story with only Jedi, Sith, and a few planets in common. Their reliance on pre-established characters and references shows that they don’t trust in the story they’re telling enough to let it stand on its own.
It just seems like the writers were afraid of making Bo-Katan an antagonist, or at least an opposing figure to Din. We have to like both of them so there's no conflict, therefore no stakes.
Ironic, when she started out as an antagonist in Clone Wars, shifted to a 'lesser of two evils', then shifted to another type of 'lesser of two evils but good from a certain cultural point of view', to Ideal Heroine.
I wonder what changed?
The problem is, Filoni has an obsession with his characters. The moment they were inserted into Mandalorian O knew the dinamic would shift in their favor and Grogu and Mando would be lost on the shuffle.
Two words:
Dave Filoni.
The Mandalorian is the show to finally unite the Star Wars-fans again: First by being a pleasant surprise and until disappointing EVERYONE in season 3. Truly a masterpiece.
What do you mean reunite star wars fans
And fuck this entire show it's so overrated stop praising it already
This show always fucking sucked ass
There's no masterpiece at all you don't need to be sarcastic about it
@@xXMisery7531Xxyou’re fun
This show is such overrated trash I hate that Its love more than anything what do you mean and reunite Star wars fans
As much my wife and I love Grogu, we both knew that the reunion between him an mando in BOBF was too early. It could have been made better if Grogu returned on the season finale of S3 and all of his sidekick role in the season was played by R5 since it would still make sense.
I agree with all your points except one: Season 7 had to include Maul for the same reason Disney can't take credit for how good it was: everything was written and set to be released before Disney took over, before Rebels was a thing. In fact, four episodes' worth of Maul's story are still missing from the show, but can be found in a comic adaptation. If they released the episodes tomorrow, it would still be Maul's original story.
Yeah, I’m amazed by how stingy season 7 was. I get they wanted to move on to different projects, but it’s literally nearly free money
Still glad we got what we did tho
I remember an ongoing joke in the Mando fandom was saying how much Din wanted to stay a side character in the SW lore. The universe was doing everything to drag him into the "main plot" but Din wasn't having it, he was quite happy doing his bounty hunter thing. And, yeah it was a fun joke, but we all expected him to eventually step up in one way or another, especially when he got the dark sabre and was banished from his clan. Here was a chance for Din to rise up as a new leader who could unite the other mandalorians, sticking it to his ultra conservative clan who banished him for wanting a final farewell eith his adopted son, but none of that happened. The joke isn't funny anymore.
The joke was always the point. Din was a random wanderer helping random people, not the savior of the galaxy.
@@MrBazBake People didn't want Din to be the "savior of the galaxy". Din founding his own clan, his own Way to be Mandalorian away from all the ultra-conservative bullshit and power squabbles, would one hundred percent have fit the character. If the writers didn't mean to follow up on the seeds they planted, they shouldn't have planted those seeds in the first place.
yup, but couldn't have him do that, its very much is just can't have strong female character be second to male figure, evident throughout him being saved repeatedly, doing nothing in s3 and cheaply just handing it to her, he has no arc cause he's not the main character - she is
@@MrBazBake Nobody is saying Din needs to be some savior, but a uniter and leader of the Mandalorian peoples. Which was the arc that was being set up in the previous season, which the creators then did nothing with when the third season rolled around.
@@justmeagain4662 100% this! So many plot point put in place for Din to be an effective new leader for the Mandalorians and they threw all of it away!
The Mandalorian had so much potential. As a Star Wars kinda enthusiast, some of the episodes were definitely a bit of a let down.
It can still get better, the Mandalorian season 4 is coming soon
I think part of the problem is the creator turning it into a hidden sequel to Rebels the cartoon series. Ashoka has done the same thing apparently.
Mando was good because it did its own thing. Now it's just a launchpad for spin offs of a cartoon.
@@isaiahchavis783sadly I believe the great era is over its a real shame but i can really see season 4 getting even worse and its honestly not even the same show at all now it’s like marvel setting so much stuff up
@@isaiahchavis783 Didn't you see the video? S4 is going to be a movie
@@cameronmontrose2616eh, that’s an opinion. It could also be better then all the other seasons
Man, I wish we can go back to the days when there wasn't a connected universe. Shows and movies nowadays are burdened with the task of having to set up so much spin offs and sequels and connected properties that it intrudes on the actual story being told.
They create spinoffs ahead of time and then cram it in to a good show as an ad, making the formerly good show bloated and immersion breaking. Good spinoff should be the opposite, where we want to see a spinoff of an interesting character because they are a great character with a lot more to tell rather than artificially making them interesting because the execs want to push a spinoff to capitalize on a brand.
Exactly.. and it would be so easy to just make something detached. Just make someone who stays in a corner of the galaxy we didn’t know about before. Or make it in the same place but 1000 years earlier or later with no connection to old characters and plot lines.. it’s not that hard, just don’t have them meet anyone we already know, Star Wars is a strong enough ecosystem to survive without you mentioning legends of the original movies, it’s gonna be fine.
In addition, shows cant have multiple plot threads coming together, as those plot threads get reserved for a spin-off. The Mandalorian would be so much better if it took its time to flash out characters like Bo Katan, Ahsoka and Boba Fett and made their respective arcs affect each other. I think its one of the main reasons why none of these shows are engaging, despite all the references and cameos the character journey is so self contained and unaffected that it doesnt really go anywhere.
My personal theory of a reason they put grogu back in is because they realized “wait, Luke picked up baby yoda? For the temple? The one we showed getting burned down in the sequel trilogy? The one where one of the students murdered all of the other kids there? Oh…yeah we can’t kill baby yoda, get him outta there.”
The only reason I'm glad they brought him back is that we know he's safe from that genocide.
@@Crucis119just show how bad the star wars is now. Dont matter what they do, its irrelevent. everything goes down by the start of the sequels
I had looked at Djin’s issues with the Darksaber as the saber itself feeling rejected by Djin due to him being so quick to give it away. I thought season 3 was gonna be him coming to terms with the mantle of responsibility that comes with wielding the Darksaber, learning to finally accept it, and becoming Mandalore. To say I was disappointed by what happened would be an understatement.
It’s an inanimate object. That shits dumb as fuck
Exactly. I was excited to see him learn how to use it properly and everything but…nope
Disney nowadays seems to be allergic to traditional "hero's journey", especially when it comes to male characters. I mean, look at Luke - destroyed deapite bwing a legacy character with established capability of being Good with a big G. Look at Finn - got turned into comedic relief despite having some great potential.
What's worse is that he melted his spear to make Grogu armor. I figured that was because he already had the Darksaber so he didn't need two melee weapons, but now he has none lol.
I'm a younger fan, meaning that I watched the older movies but didn't care about them till now, when I went back and rewatched the films I noticed such a difference in not the story but the little details. The older movies were a love letter to the western films of cowboys and the old samurai films, the newer films utilizes these already established roles of jedi or bounty hunters while failing to execute the same energy that made it so familiar to multiple fans. I think Mandalorian succeeded in using that energy with a new religion and new characters, but it falls flat in the newest season. Taking away from the western vibes
Dude you have no idea how accurate your comment is haha. When I was I kid I had all the extended edition DVDs. From what I remember Han Solo was more or less a space cowboy and all the desert planets were designed with a futuristic western concept in mind.
Even Mal from Firefly was loosley based on him and he is literally a space cowboy hahaha _(Also look up and watch Firefly the series and then Serenity the movie if you haven't seen the series)_
b😅ecause 1:29 in
Western and samurai vibes because S1 and to a lesser but still prevalent S2 was heavily influenced by the manga 'Lone Wolf and Cub' which some of the imagery is ripped from directly.
nicely put well done, i love it when people write my feelings down
@@idigamstudios7463 ohhhhhh. So that's why my parents kept on referencing that name lmao
I honestly believe Disney’s allergy to ‘controversy’ (i.e.any political ideas) stymied their willingness to be creative. Andor was VERY political, and actually interested in the ideas of Imperialism. People responded to that, not necessarily because of the politics, but because it had stakes and the characters and world felt real again.
By trying to be "apolitical" or "neutral", Disney is actually saying a very political statement: they want money before quality.
Politics don't exist in OT. This is the “struggle” of cartoonish space Nazis blowing up planets for no reason and “the good good ones you have to root for them” rebels retards who are always rebelling against something. Even if it doesn't make sense.
Even if Revenge of the Sith makes it clear that Palpatine is not a cartoon space Hitler. Doesn't matter. There must be an "evil evil empire" and "good rebels" trapped in this limbo.
People responded? What are u talking about hardly anyone showed up
@@captainDJ87Disney+ view counts are famously obscure so I’m not sure what your data is there, other than the famously debunked early season article that went around? On Deadline I think?
The sequel movies were incredibly political. The entire movie is about what happens if you don't maintain the revolution after victory, the forces of reaction will once again rise up under a new private power to destroy you
I loved season 1 and parts of season 2 but when it started getting too overly involved in the rest of the Star Wars mythos instead of just being space outlaw cowboy stuff I was lost.
As soon as I saw Jon Favreau say in an interview that the writers watched reaction videos on UA-cam and said “we should’ve done that” I knew Season 3 would be trash.
Same. I didn't know it was part of star wars (which is good since I don't like star wars) and watched because of the armor, then in the third season it was all about the world building and I stopped watching. It sucks, first season it's so good.
That's honestly the big problem with both Star Wars *and* Marvel.
They're trying too much to shoehorn every single series into a massive story that still needs to be coherent. It's too complicated to make everything fit together seamlessly and requires too much work on behalf of the viewer to fully understand what's going on in any given show. Like I watched Multiverse of Madness and was so confused as to why Wanda was suddenly evil and trying to find these random kids she never had...only to find out I needed to watch Wandavision beforehand.
We need more titles that are within the established universe, but nice and self-contained with no real relation to anything else going on. I don't want to have to do homework for my entertainment.
This is the trap, right? The thing FSN hates -- the unnecessary overt references dragging a new show back into old stories -- is exactly what Luke Skywalker showing up is. People complain about jumped sharks then buy tickets to the Sea World Waterski Extravaganza and cheer when the sharks are lined up.
Seriously: why is reformed Luke still dressed like a Sith almost ten years after Return of the Jedi and all the attempted murder and double force chokings? Because it's how fans remember him dressed at the end of Return of the Jedi. It's empty nostalgia with no narrative significance.
There's a reason people talk about Season 3's low viewership but ignore that the last half of Season 2 was even worse. Because Season 3 didn't pander as hard to the fans, so even though more people watched it, fandom complained louder at not getting their references.
This is the kind of nonsense opinion that would have prevented Clone Wars or Rebels from ever being made. Too much interconnectivity my ass.
On the subject of instant iconography and Han Solo, I thought your point about the Solo movie not needed to be about Solo was pretty right on! Any type of thief like him would have worked well and I thought you were going to bridge it with Mando : Mando is what we hoped a Boba Fett story was supposed to be like (hence when they did the Fett story, it was a big letdown that couldn't survive what Mando achieved). They took Boba Fett and made a show about him but changed his character to a new one - Mando - and explored something else as a story. This to me is the proof your point about Solo needed : it is possible to make an interesting story about a character that reminds us about the legacy ones but is not a legacy one.
Only legacy character I’m cool with having more media of is Chewbacca
My attitude towards Star Wars has become one of apathy thanks to Disney. It's like meeting up with your old best friend from your childhood, one you shared everything with and formed strong emotional bonds with, but then finding that since you last met they've fallen into doing hard drugs, their marriage has collapsed because of their infidelity, they had an alcohol problem and served time inside. The person you knew can still be seen every so often in brief flashes and small moments (Mando season 1, Finn and Po in Force Awakens), but for the most part the person you loved as a brother is largely gone and dead.
The thing that always bugged me about the franchise since The Phantom Menace is that for a galaxy-spanning story the universe just feels so _small._ Everyone knows each other or is related to one another. There are possibly trillions of people in this galaxy, but it is just the same characters appearing over and over. And over. And over.
that works fine in old era cause its about one story, fall of anakin, and skywalkers, but in current disney era has been entirely "hey remember this" no matter the character or story especially when they cameo just to spinoff to their own spin off show - that's when this pretty evident its done cheaply
And you have stillthewater plsnet and tatuiniis having a srace, they do have more than the jedi. At least in phantom manece.
And it eing about jediand politisdoes wrk tohit that,okthe pacin is weird and notperfect, but its a political and fall from grce story.
@@marocat4749 I had a stroke trying to read that.
@@marocat4749I think what you’re saying is that Star Wars has become political but like it’s ALWAYS BEEN POLITICAL. Media literacy and apparently writing coherent sentences just isn’t a thing anymore more…🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️
Phantom Meance isn't where this issue started. It really started with Rebels and the early Disney era, which exploded with the spinoffs and Disney+ era
I get his frustration about Maul re-appearing in Clone Wars season 7 but we have to remember the whole storyline of season 7 was already set in stone before it got cancelled. Rebels was developed later and then we got the season 7 of TCW so I can understand why Maul appeared in TCW after we saw his death but without Maul, we don't get the greatest storyline of TCW, The Siege of Mandalore and the best light saber fight scene of all time with Maul and Ahsoka
The best storyline was umbara
the best lightsaber fight scene was Kenobi vs Maul II
I know it was a joke at first about how one family can be causing so much chaos for the entire galaxy. But man, it really does feel that way. The problem with Star Wars is that this galaxy feels small because we keep following the same characters in the same 30 year tine span.
Andor sends its regards...
Brilliantly said. The problem with Hollywood right now, not just Star Wars, is a fear of going beyond the old, beloved characters and creating new stories with new characters.
The fact that Disney admitted they didn't have a road map when making the new trilogy is exactly the reason these movies ruin the franchise.. they're so incoherent and no narratives are followed through
Your breakdown of Solo is exactly why I didn’t watch it - even my housemate said “I hope they don’t show the Kessel Run.” It’s also why I think I enjoyed Rogue One so much. Way more than the new trilogy, but even just as a movie I found it breathtaking and devastating. I didn’t really need the CGI Leia at the end, I was fine. Rogue One does tie into the trilogies but the focus being on new characters was wonderful.
I loved rogue one and honestly the world Last Jedi could have transitioned to where new stories and the names palpatine and skywalker could be legends of heroism and villainism that inspire / create terror while new characters are exploring the universe.
The scene showing the force sensitive shop child gave me hope for the franchise to grow and modernize respectfully.
To me, Solo is at the bottom of my star wars ranking merely because I was bored the whole time. It committed the cardinal sin of cinema that is was boring (to me) because we knew Han would be okay, we didn't need to know anything (like Ninja said) and they really didn't try and then tossed in a last minute cameo for no reason.
I was in the cinema opening night, and there were 5 people in my screening during prime cinema hours. I've told people unless they're diehard Han Solo fans or don't mind ideas that get dropped, to maybe not watch the movie. It's very disappointing.
Also, Rogue One has become my favorite star wars movie ever, purely because it shows the power of the people of the galaxy without the need to have a jedi save the day.
I enjoyed Solo- as SN says it was a fun movie. I really thought they did the lead actor dirty because who the hell wants to step into his shoes...just a bad spot to be in.
Although I never thought about the show with just new and different characters that definitely would have been a plus. Lots of the roll your eye moments were exactly as he described- how the dice came to be, why he got the name Solo, etc.
Solo does a lot of things I didn't think I wanted going into it but ended up liking. I didn't want to see the Kessel Run going in but I'm not immune to it being some of the coolest shit I've ever seen.
Imho Solo is the only one of the new movies that i like. It's visual style it was faithful to the original 3 films, unlike pretty much all the other newer sw movies, prequels included. And the story was good.
I'm surprised they had to waste time at all in Season 3. They had two fantastic story lines to go down: Bo Katan retaking Mandalore, and Din gaining a new understanding of his faith. Both go independently to multiple Mandalorian clans, and learning about their cultures. Bo can do this to learn and become a proper leader, Din does this to learn his place in his faith.
The season culminates in a close fight between the two for the Dark Saber, with Bo eventually emerging as the victor. Of course, by then, the Dark Saber doesn't _actually_ matter. Bo has already proven herself the rightful leader of Mandalore, and Din has rightfully proven himself a Mandalorian. The saber is just a symbol
No Grogu, no Gideon. Just two people learning about and resolving their journeys with their home planet and culture
we were robbed of this.
Oh fuck that, i dont want to see bo katan becoming leader for the 8th time.
I sort of agree with this. I think Mando could become the next leader along with/instead of Bo Katan. We've already seen her become queen of mandalore in the clone wars and I don't really want just another retread of that story. I think it makes sense for Mando's overall arc for him to become a leader of sorts or even the owner of the Darksaber. His arc in the first two seasons where he learns to trust people would pretty naturally lead into an arc about becoming a leader with Bo Katan. Also I don't really want them to move on from Grogu. Not because he's cute but because the 2nd season he finally starts to develop some agency and become more than just a cute mascot. It would be a huge shame for his arc to end just as it was beginning. (Though I don't love the idea of Luke doing it since that kind of intrudes on the sequel trilogy and adds more weirdness to that whole "story") I also wouldn't have it happen in The Mandalorian. While Ahsoka training someone is not the story I want in a show about her, the reason she gives why she can't teach Grogu makes no sense for her character but I have a lot of problems with the way they have handled her character recently. They could have easily had the 2nd season end with Ahsoka taking over his training and Mando moving on.
yea but that doesnt solve any issues, there would still be a lot of filler if that was the only plot point
Maul wasn't as much brought back in Season 7 of Clone Wars as much as he was always supposed to be part of that story before the original run of Clone Wars got canceled. He's integral to that storyline. There's comics and books adapting that stuff before the show was picked back up (and before his death in Rebels) so I don't have a problem with it.
Season 7 as a whole is just animating a bunch of stuff we already knew went down because characters in other stuff have referenced it. Because they never expected it wouldn't get animated in the first place.
I agree about the video in general, that is the big problem with Star Wars, just wanted to point out Clone Wars season 7 is a bit of an exception. Produed later but everything about it was set in stone for years.
Him in Solo was terrible though.
Season three should've been a split perspective between Grogu and Dinn, leading up to Grogu taking off from Luke to meet back up with Dinn at the season finale.
Season 3 felt like watching Mando play an open world game, where he finished of the main story and now just does all the markers left on the map.
To be fair, in defense of CW season 7, Maul was most likely planned to be there anyway before the show's cancellation since he was already ruling Mandalore. Considering Rex makes a passing comment about the siege in Rebels at least shows that this was the story was going to be told before it got axed. Solo had literally no excuse. That was pure fanservice, but I guess him returning in Rebels, albeit for a short time can be seen as well.
I'm one of those fans who think Maul's story ended in The Phantom Menace. What did he really accomplish after that? What did he change in the grand scheme of things? An L take might even call him an insignificant spectator to events that mattered. And it had to be like that in order to keep the canon intact. His return is the most fan service and pointless arc I can think of in Star Wars. I will admit that him teaming up with Savage against Sheev was the high point of the whole Clone Wars but it never mattered because we already knew the outcome. Also, I am biased towards that scene, as a Sheev fanboy, because that was the first and only time he went full beastmode. I mean, live action doesn't do him justice.
He 100% was. I remember the show's staff showing the canceled plans before the show was revived. He was even in the Ahsoka book years before
@@Sandlund93 he had one of the greates character arcs in starwars across clone wars and rebels wdym. maul wasnt even a character in phantom manace, all of his character came after that
@@Brummhund Yeah, taste is different. Some people like Maul's arc and some don't. I wouldn't call it trash or anything, it just felt pointless and a waste of time. Mostly because they just killed him off again, in a duel I never appreciated, against Obi-Wan.
If anything, they should have gone with George's vision and make Maul finally matter in Episode 7-9. Why not have him there instead of Snoke, for example? And then respect the character he had become at that point. Enough to not chop him in half, in such a cheesy way, in the second movie of a trilogy.
I mean, Maul getting chopped in 1 is a huge payoff but Snoke getting a similar treatment in 8 just feels cheap and out of nowhere. Without build-up it becomes pointless and annoying. Especially since we had so many questions about Snoke at the time.
@@Sandlund93 Maul was just a a guy with a double lightsaber but no character in TPM. How the Clone Wars brought him back and used him was great.
Something you didn’t really mention, but they also really undercut the “Mando is a badass” thing in season 3 too. They went for the all too common trope of establishing another character is a badass by having them beat or save your established main character. In doing so I think Bo Katan saved Din from certain death 3 times (at least) in season 3 (other characters too, Grogu for instance, maybe others I forget because it’s been a while since I watched it.
When your main character would have died in not for the luck of some other person showing up and saving them, every episode, it really doesn’t feel like they’re a bad ass. It actually makes it hard to suspend disbelief that Din has survived as a bounty hunter in this universe for more than a day.
the worf effect kinda hurts my soul.
Din was saved by Grogu, IG-11, Boba Fett and Fennec, Cara Dune and Migs, too. He's still a badass.
Bo Katan is also a badass.
I completely agree about Solo. I actually liked it and it would have gotten so much less hate if it wasn't about Han Solo. You could have even had Chewy in it because Chewy is allowed to have other friends.
Agree
Solo was an absolutely fine movie. The big problem it has is that (probably Disney) wanted it to be a checklist move. As if they literally handed a checklist to the writers of what must be included : how Han left Corellia, how he got those stupid dice (which somehow went from a background prop to a major important relic of his), how he met Chewy, how the life debt came to be, what did he do in the Imperial Navy, how he got his blaster, the Falcon, Lando, Kessel, all that. It was infuriating, because the whole story was woven around that and we didn't need to know any of that. We didn't need a movie dedicated to any of that. I could see a few one shot comics maybe but not a whole movie, because none of it adds anything to Han's character as we came to know him in the OT, in fact it kinda takes away from him, because all that scoundrel who grows a conscience character arc of his from the OT gets undermined saying he was always kinda like that.
@@DonJay00001and here's the thing... I read the old books back in the day, so I read The Han Solo Trilogy by A. C. Crispin. And those books are so much better than the Solo movie. Bria was a far more interesting first love, Han and Chewie's meeting had so much more emotional impact, Han and Lando's meeting helped lay a better foundation for their friendship. By comparison, Solo feels rushed and boring.
As he said, it could have been a whole different character and be better. They could have had the Kessel Run and have the new guy at the end say something like "omg 13 parsecs, it would be impossible for someone to do better!" and have that be the solo conection, that would be all, that would be fun
@@DonJay00001 It's not just that it's a checklist movie, but the answers were stupid and over explained. When he meets Chewbacca and says "That's too long, I'm going to call you Chewy.", that's just content for idiots. Who doesn't know how nicknames work? Nobody meets a person named Christopher and says "That's too long...". We just shorten names like that all the time. In the original series it was just a small detail that displayed a close friendship between them. I can't imagine anyone in the audience ever once wondered why Han called him Chewy.
Star Wars feels like a universe with the population of a small town.
I was one of those people that didn't finish season 3. By the 6th episode, I knew I read waaaay better fanfictions that had given me what I had expected for season 3 (plus a jedi/mando romance but I knew wasn't going to be canon anyway lol). I feel like the progression was so obvious and that's all it needed to do but Hollywood loves to throw it's fans for a loop, even at the detriment of their product. Like, it's perfectly showed in how Grogu's name is now 'Din Grogu' when fans expected it to be 'Grogu Djarin'. It's such a silly change just to get a one up on fans. We all knew where the story was going, Din was going to be the King of Mandalore and get his people together, but because producers didn't like that fans already knew that, they wanted it changed so that we would all be 'surprised'. At least that's my theory on it.
Also about "Solo" and how star wars needs to go for things that aren't connected to the main trilogy, I completely agree. I passed by a sign for 'The Creator' movie and I originally thought it was going to be a new star wars film. I was so super excited because i hadn't heard about it being tied to any other SW product and it was made by the Rogue One creators. Then I found out it wasn't tied to SW. But the point is I found it actually exciting to hear and SW project that didnt deal with main trilogy stuff! They really should take advantage of that.
The reason we remember Star Wars is because it took risks. Early on, it paid off, but even when it didn’t, we still forgive it (eventually)
Disney just needs to trust the power of the brand it bought and one of the largest fandoms on earth.
I would say Disney HAD that cheat code, but they almost immediately threw it away when they decided to make the Rey trilogy with zero narrative plan...
I feel like the only reason people latched on to the sequel characters so quickly was that - at the time - we were getting a new Star Wars movie for the first time in a literal decade, and so we were super hyped for more Star Wars.
Now in the 8 years since Force Awakens, you don't see that instant iconography anymore, because we've been so oversaturated with mostly-bad Star Wars content, Disney's conditioned us to not expect much in the way of quality.
@@zogwort1522 As a geek girl I find this comment insulting. Most of the female SW fans I know, much like myself, hate TLJ and everything that came after. We loved GL Star Wars.
Plus, in my opinion, the Kyllo/Rey weird romance plot was inspired by Twilight not HP.
Most girls like most boys just want a well written movie with dynamic characters that make sense. Oh, and dont shit in Luke Skywalker. That's true for everyone.
you really hit the nail on his head with this one. i feel like hollywood as a whole really doesn’t know how to let stories end anymore, with the countless remakes and sequels coming out.
i’ve noticed it in some fans as well, tho-mostly for the mcu and star wars. i always see so many comments online like “we need a show about x!” “this character deserves a movie!” “i wish they could make a prequel about y!” and while obviously i understands those sentiments, the ones of wanting to know more about a universe and characters you love, it just makes me think that there are people that fundamentally consume art in a different way.
just some thoughts i had
Honestly, I think the problem stems from the execs seeing that fan response and going "oh, they want more of _____, give that to them rather than going with a riskier new idea that doesn't have an apparent demand".
Season 3 could have been great! It could have explored themes of religion and different interpretations of the same religion, losing your faith or reconnecting with faith in a new way... it could've explored themes of parenthood like what to do when your child doesn't fit in, or when your child wants to do things that don't fit with your beliefs etc. ... but instead they kinda just did random bits and bobs that felt a bit lacking in meaning or purpose.
Omg this, I completely agree
They dropped ball with Finn. Stormtrooper to Jedi saga would have been epic.
Came over after you got a shout out from Schaffrillas and I definitely appreciate your thoughts. I slogged through this the third season and… yeah, you’re pretty much right across the board. Such a frustrating way to continue to the series. Thanks for the extensive thoughts!
the 'star wars problem' is why i'm so mad about how rey was handled in rise of skywalker. her being a nobody- just a child to two deadbeats who sold her for drinking money- made her interesting! it was a genuinely good twist that played into the themes of the franchise well. her story was one about how *anyone* has the potential to rise up in the face of injustice as long as they're brave enough. she didn't *have* to have some tragic backstory or mysterious background. she was rey and that was all she needed to be. to this day i defend a lot of the last jedi because, for a short while, that film told me star wars was gonna go in a new direction and really shake things up with new characters from different backgrounds completely unshackled by the original trilogy, save for kylo ren who now stood as an allegory for refusing to let go of the past to the point of denying one's self. but yeah rise of skywalker completely ruined it for me.
Agree. One of my favorite aspects of Jedi was that her parents didn't matter but nope. Gotta make the universe smaller. Bonus you had a stormtrooper that left the order and could have made him a Jedi but nope. Just make him run after the main character and not have his own agency. Shameful.
Agreed! That was one thing that made sense to me, Jedi aren't all Skywalkers and were never meant to be. Its like they wanted their cake and to eat it too (overuse cliches at this point of the older stuff while trying to act like its all brand new)
I didn't like the "nobody" twist OR the Palpatine twist. The Force Awakens repeatedly asked two questions. "Who are Rey's parents?" and "Who is Rey?" Both questions didn't need to have the same answer.
Rey should have been one of Luke's former students that Kylo chose to spare. Kylo's story in the first movie was that he wasn't evil. He did a terrible thing, but didn't enjoy it or think it was right. He doesn't see a way back to the Light Side, so he keeps doing evil in the hopes that it will make him fully bad and he won't have to feel guilt or pain anymore. When Kylo is told that a girl on Jakku helped BB-8 escape, he says "What girl?!" and then throws a tantrum.
Imagine this. Luke senses Snoke messing with Ben, and goes to Ben while he's sleeping. Luke senses the dark side in Ben at the same time that Ben is having a Snoke crafted nightmare. Ben wakes up, sees Luke, attacks him, and eventually collapses the roof on Luke. Snoke tells Ben that he's killed Luke, and he'll never be forgiven, so the only place for him is the Dark Side. Ben begins to massacre any of Luke's students that won't join him, until he finds the youngest one. Rey. Ben can't bring himself to kill her, and instead leaves her on Jakku.
Rey is talented with the Force because she has already received training. She's not "nobody," but she's special because of her connection to Ben and Luke rather than her parents. Rey foiling Kylo in TFA is Kylo's "weakness" coming back to bite him, so he tries to cut it out of himself by killing his father.
The ending of the sequel trilogy would have been stronger if Rey had died and Ben had lived. Ben having to spend the rest of his life atoning for his past by training the next generation of Jedi is more interesting than him simply dying. And Rey dying to defeat the Dark Side. both physically (Palpatine/The Sith), and spiritually (Ben), is more satisfying than her winning every fight without any cost to herself. But people would have pitched a fit if a woman died so that a man could find peace, so Disney would never have had the balls.
Well said
@@DrLipkinbut this is still the problem. You mention Luke, training etc. All been done before. Rey was important because she showed there was no need for Jedi, sith etc. That's what the kid at the end of The Last Jedi was meant to show. The Force doesn't care about family lineage. It just is.
I can excuse Maul coming back in Clone Wars season 7 since the story wasn’t released when it was supposed to. The Siege of Mandalore was planned out before Rebels but CW was cancelled. However, I strongly agree he should have not appeared in solo or at least not in the way he did.
Also, the Maul arc in season 7 was pretty important for Ahsoka as a character.
I've never watched this show, but you can BET that I'll drop everything to see Friendly Space Ninja's take on it, as always!
Season 1 is actually good, a space outlaw adventure in the wild outer rim of the SW galaxy. Season 2 is good but not as good as 1. Season 3 is way more goofy and silly. I dunno if I can call it good, but if you go into it not expecting much and just laughing at the nonsense, you can enjoy it. However, I still see major problems with it and hope they'll fix them by season 4, otherwise this show is dead. Especially since the only reason mandalorians as a concept are a thing is because of Boba Fett and they already ruined his character.
Retweet.
So you have bad taste in two measures. Amazing.
@@yoursonisold8743 Who pissed in your cereal, cupcake?
Samee
Bro, THANK YOU! You're the only one I've heard address it & I've literally been saying what you said about treating entire worlds/planets as a "neighborhood" 49:35 FOREVER 😂 Star Wars does that a lot. These video essays are so on point & masterfully well done. I agree with everything said 💯%
The inflections in your voice never fail to make me laugh. I can just feel the frustration and incredulousness. Thanks for your videos!
Knights Of The Old Republic is a good example of instant iconography.
It is set like thousand years before og trilogy and barely does any callback to the og trilogy, but is still considered by many as the best star wars game out there.
Well to be fair KOTOR does callback to the original trilogy with its iconography ie the ebon hawk being basically a red millenium falcon, Revan and Malak's appereances are reminiscent of Darth Vader's, the fact that part of the game takes place on Tatooine (as every piece of Star Wars media does, apparently), etc. However KOTOR isn't nearly as insistent on its callbacks as the sequel trilogy, instead it uses them as a jumping point to tell its own story and do its own thing. It uses the iconography cleverly, the sequels don't.
Which is weird, considering its sequel is infinitely better.
“Instant Iconography” would be like if Revan, Kreia, HK-47 etc became figments of pop culture before the game released. I would argue that wasn’t the case. The new characters in The Force Awakens were able to pierce pop culture before the movie came out. KOTOR characters are popular only because people played the games.
KOTOR and Jedi knight Outcast!
I agree 100% with your praise of Solo and your take about how Star Wars suffers from connecting everything back to the original characters. But this started way before the Disney era. George Lucas's assistance that poetry rhymes set that template. Making the clones in the Attack of the Clones connected to Boba Fett really set the tone that literally everything connects. Boba Fett was no longer a random bounty hunter but integral to the entire era of intergalactic war. Also, I doubt Solo would have ever gotten written if not starting from the key idea of a prequel to the one major character who wasn't covered in the prequels.
This was what I believe that FSN really missed here. Disney really did not understand what was attractive about Star Wars (the vastness of the scope, the heartwarming connections between the characters, and the melodrama set as a "space opera"), so they tried to basically reboot Episodes 4, 5, and 6 with new characters because they bought into the success of the "rhyming couplets" and they figured that if they don't tinker with anything, maybe they'll recapture the lightning in a bottle. Rather than realizing that the redoing 4/5/6 with new faces and sabotaging the beloved characters was less interesting than actually moving the universe forward -- as had been done in the Expanded Universe Pre-Disney -- they came to the false realization that people don't like the new characters, so Disney should never do anything too new. Mandalorian was "allowed" to break this cardinal rule because Disney figured it would fail anyway, so provided no oversight, and that it succeeded confused Disney to no end.
So, if they wanted a heist movie in the Star Wars universe, they were not going to greenlight this unless they knew that people would connect with the lead. And this goes to your point that Solo was ONLY greenlit because it was about Han Solo.
The Boba Fett connection came from a fundamental misunderstanding between Lucas and the fans. It's clear Lucas never really understood why fans liked Boba Fett, and wanted to throw in some harmless fan service. It's honestly the best example of doing it because Jango Fett is the real main attraction, an entirely new character that was always more interesting and developed than Boba, and Boba was someone who you could honestly miss in that film.
Disney is where all the real problems began
I remember watching the season 2 finale and thinking to myself "Damn, The Mandalorian peaked early. I wonder how they're gonna ruin it.". I hate how right I was 😭
The Mandalorian never peaked
It was always trash
looking back on it now, i think what made season 2 work with its legacy characters where season 3 sort of faltered was that it used most of them sparingly but smartly, with most of them being present to help din with HIS arc. in season 2, even though we're getting all these familiar faces, it feels like a continuation of the idea in season 1 where din was building his little group of friends who were all loyal to him and grogu. it also did something fairly fresh with a lot of them, recontextualizing who boba fett is, introducing new faces to tattooine with the people of mos espa, making din face his differences with other mandalorians until deciding to trust them. and even as all this was going on, the emotional core of the series was still present: din was protecting grogu, trying to find him a jedi teacher, and when grogu was taken by the empire, the series honed in on how bad that was and made the final two episodes of the season entirely about getting him back. it ultimately felt like the same idea of a fresh story focused on new faces, that also just so happened to involve a few familiar faces as supporting characters.
every series since really hasn't done that, relying on the legacy of its main characters and the interconnectivity of the galaxy to drive the plot and its stakes, but mando season 2 at least remembered where the focus was supposed to be and used the rest as a garnish on top of what was already there.
the big problem with bo-katan in season 3 is how much of her edge she's lost by this point. even in season 2, she's a bit antagonistic towards din, which makes sense not only because he's basically a cultist, but also because she's a cutthroat character who isn't a hero, but an anti-hero who'd do whatever it takes to reclaim mandalore. she can be honourable, but she can also be just as nasty, especially given her past as a terrorist with death watch. season 3 bo-katan almost feels like an entirely new character that only started to exist during the purge of mandalore; she could have just as easily been replaced by the armourer, who returned to the children of the watch out of shame after handing the darksaber to gideon. the season never touches on her beliefs, never explores her sordid past, never shows the side of her that Would Have Killed Din once upon a time, which makes her becoming a hero by the end fall a little flat because she started as basically a hero.
The episodic format of Season 1 was my favorite part of it. As a fan of Cowboy Bebop, I enjoyed the exploring.
I'm a pretty casual Star Wars watcher--my partner is a fan boy in every sense of the word. Personally, the best show that's come out of the franchise in the past several years was "Andor" simply because it doesn't treat the audience like we're stupid. It's not on-the-nose about themes--it wants the audience to discover those themes themselves.
I haven't watched the third season of Mando, but it's a shame hearing that Disney took a story that had a lot of heart and made it into something that treats audiences like we're stupid again. I wish these big name companies would stop pushing half-assed content onto people just so they can continue to stay relevant in the cultural zeitgeist...
The development of Mandalorian kind of shows Filoni‘s biggest strenghts and weaknesses.
The set pieces and camera work are always top notch but you just can‘t recycle every idea and plot over and over again (moreover the idea to let characters from other shows randomly show up to solve problems for our main characters)
Filoni is not even in charge of the mandalorian. Jon Favreau is the show runner and main writer. Directors are different almost every episode as well. The true test will be the Ahsoka show. If Filoni can’t make that work, it’s kinda over lol
@@zogwort1522 Mate there is a huge difference between set pieces, choreography and actions within the plot
Filoni wrote and directed three episodes of The Mandalorian's three seasons. How are any of these his strengths and weaknesses, this isn't his show.
@@zogwort1522 That was a non-canon comic made years before Maul appeared in The Clone Wars.
Thank you so much for making it clear that a) Clone Wars and Rebels will further contextualize The Mandalorian, Book of Boba Fett and Ahsoka and add to your enjoyment, but b) those shows still have to make us care about the characters and make their motivations clear regardless of whether you've seen the other shows first
People don't seem to fully realize that Star Wars is a universe. Like our universe, you don't need to know every ounce of history to understand the situation, but it helps.
Let me give an example: The Godfather takes place in 1946. No one complains about plot holes like "The movie never explains what was so important about the war Michael fought in." "I have to do homework just to understand why Italian people are in the US instead of Italy?" "When were car bombs established to be a thing, why skip over something so important to the story?"
Often times, a good story will establish the important bits as it goes. World War 2 is fascinating, but you don't 'need' a diploma to understand why the Mafia is reluctant to go to war in 1946.
This was something I already had issue with way back before even Revenge of the Sith came out and the Tartakovsky Clone Wars show was on. I really liked that cartoon, but when I saw that it kinda became necessary watching to find out who General Grievous was since he wasn't really given any real introduction in Revenge of the Sith, I saw that as a real issue of franchise filmmaking.
One of the biggest missed opportunities for me when it comes to the mandalorian is that there's this feeling that the writers are afraid to commit to something. It's like they're loading a previous save because they want to make a different story decision in a video game. How much more impactful would it have been if Grogu had reunited with Mando in the finale of season 3 during the retaking of mandalore, just as the mandalorians are on the edge of defeat, a fleet of jedi and new republic forces swoops in and we see grogu wielding a lightsaber and using the force. How much better would it have been if they had realized that a sole Mandalore is the root of all their infighting and they come up with a dual ruler system where Bo-Katan leads alongside Mando, who is the ambassador to the new republic and forges an alliance with their ancient enemies, the Jedi? Bo-Katan could have kept the dark saber, and Mando could have kept the beskar spear, symbolizing that they are a check and balance to each other's authority and that decisions affecting their people shouldn't be made by just one person unchallenged. I'm not saying they have to be romantically involved with one another, but they could work together to lead Mandalore into a new era of rebuilding and revolutionize their culture from one based on conquest and violence to one based on protection and cooperation with other systems. But instead, Mando has to just ditch the darksaber and deuce out to his cabin with Grogu and Bo-Katan is left to rule over a ruined world with the last dregs of her people. It also begs the question, where are the mandalorians during the sequel trilogy? Did Bo-Katan mess up yet again and lead her people to ruin? Or did they become an isolationist hermit kingdom hiding from the galaxy? If the writers could just let the story grow up by letting Grogu grow up, then it could bring a lot of interesting story elements forward. I firmly believe that Kennedy was PISSED that her little green merchandise machine had been written out of the story, so she demanded that they retcon Grogu's departure in the book of boba fett so they could continue to market the hell out of the little guy.
You're so right about Solo. I heard someone compare it to a fun game of Edge of the Empire (the tabletop version of Star Wars) and y'know what? When I watched it and thought "this is someone's Edge of the Empire game, that's their player character Dan Lolo" it was a great time!
Andor and Rogue One are not only a rarity for Disney Star Wars. It is the anomaly. It is absolutely unfathomable how Gareth Edwards and most of all Tony Gilroy were allowed to create a work with such good, pointed writing, smart structure where actions, reactions and consequences can all be traced back and make sense, everything being shot on location with proper sets and not just using the Volume as a crutch, with the stellar casting and performances delivered as if the actors were in a Martin Scorsese or Ridley Scott film and not popcorn-conveyor-belt-blockbuster-formula of Disney Star Wars AND! AND! Most of all it is insane to me that they were allowed to tell an in your face biting pollical story about oppression and fascism and civil resistance! A story that has something to say, a message, a truth to force the audience think and feel! Instead of the some banal cliché superfluous things the sequels or TV shows had to say for themselves. Mass appeal at its finest.
The Mandalorian had potential. It should have been what season 1 was -- episodic western in space. That was its structure and identity. But they tried to make another MCU out of it. And failed.
A really great analysis not only about the fall of Star wars, but also how studios just make a mess with their franchises when they just repeat and not offer something fresh with the rich universes they have.
Star wars peaked with Andor, and I think after season 2, I’m going to be done with Star Wars forever.
Andor is incredible and I will never stop talking about it
I hate how with Ahsoka being out.. you’ve got people starting to trash Andor when comparing the two.. Dave Filoni couldn’t touch Tony Gilroy’s writing or dialogue 🤷🏾♂️
Andor peaked of how boring that was, people ended recommend me the last episodes of the show because how boring the first four episodes, and I love political commentary in Star Wars, but Andor was really, really, boring, also not understand how rebellions works, not with pretty speeches, but with action.
But why is it so popular on Reaction channels? And everyone seems to rank it on S tier? Is it really that mass consumable like early marvel and the Avatar movies that it's just shitty popcorn entertainment?
@@jatinchanchlani8982I mean, I wouldn’t call them shitty. Just popcorn enertainment. And when it comes to that, I think they do it pretty well
Like great internet superstar Rich Evans said:
"StarWars is creatively bankrupt"
Man what a great video. I appreciate the flow you had from one idea to another. The last thing it was was scattered, it was very well mapped out, thought out, organized, and executed well. What you may consider as scattered (ex: going into Maul, Instant Iconiography, or even Solo) was actually strategically used as evidence and explanation to larger points you were making, & you linked everything well together to have good transition. Im an english teacher so I am basing this comment off of the P.E.E.L Paragraph structure, but if I was grading you, id say this is a 97% hahaha with the 3 percent being lost to lack of conciseness in some areas. But I really enjoyed all details that made up the deemed "lack of conciseness". By the end of the video, I wanted you to keep going & keep talking about star wars. I would love to hear you talk about how season 3 should have gone more!!!
Thank you for this. My excitement about Star Wars died slowly over the last 18 months (Boba Fett, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Mando 3 all had their hands on the pillow smothering it) and it’s so great to hear someone articulate this point so clearly.
I recently said on social media that my relationship with Star Wars is on the rocks and that Andor was the only thing keeping that marriage going.
I was positive through everything until Obi-wan. Boba Fett was a mixed bag leaning toward disappointment for me but the way the quality of the Obi-wan show appalled me. Like even the editing, effects (or lack of effects to de-age Anakin) and writing was so poor at moments that I felt like I was pranked or something. I expected Disney to say they accidentally released an older edit of some episodes that lacked effects.
I became really jaded since I grew up the Prequels and loved Anakin and Obi-wan so much. I understood how older fans felt about the Sequels then.
Since I became jaded, I didn't bother with Andor, which I've heard is really good, and Mando S3. Filoni's writing in Boba Fett has turned me off to giving Ahsoka a chance too.
I loved the animated series cast so the live action just takes me out of it.
I was a star wars fan most of my life, before the Rise of Skywalker I read most of the new canon novels and comics even. It really sucks.
@@AzayBae I don't think I will ever stop being a fan. Because all the great stuff that came before the dark times, before Disney, will still be with me. I even revisit some of them from time to time, including Episode 1-6.
@@Sandlund93well its not the first time some company that didn't make my favorite property ruined it and flanderized. I feel the same way you do for fallout
I remember the very end of season 2 felt like a red flag to me. Giving up Grogu immediately after the rescue at the last second, the convience of the jedis arrival and the shamless cameo being Luke. I know Ahsoka was introduced for her own show but she didn't feel shoved in your face, but more just some jedi in hiding from Bo-Katans past.
The Book of Boba Fett was overall a disappointment for what it could have been, but I do think Din's episodes were good and should have probably been used as a foundation to start season 3 off instead. Because at least it ties the ending of two seasons together and shows us hints of Dins life being unsatisfying now that he's lost his kid. And expand more on Grogu having to find his own agency and explore him wanting to return to his dad alone and make their reunion mean more because we know how far they both went to get back to one another and solidify their choice to stay together as a father and son and round out season 2's development between them. Then start setting up Din's pilgrimage to Mandalore as something sacred between the two of them. And utilize the antagonistic set up of Bo Katan who seeks to take the darksaber out of anger, and the main conflict is between them. A born Mandalorian from a known family seeking to destroy her opponent, but is thwarted because her prejudice against foundlings means she underestimated how skilled and dangerous Din is.
Season 1 and 2 are still amazing, I did a rewatch just to make sure I wasnt accidentally delusional about it being so good but no they are unbelievably amazing. I was so hype for season 3 and I literally quit halfway through the 3rd episode (finished it eventually but god it was bad).
Season 1 and 2 mean so much to me as shows and were astoundingly good examples of why Star Wars has so much more to offer then the usual roster of jedis, lightsabers, tie fighters, and the sith. It was essentially a western set in the star wars universe not a Star Wars Show.
Season 3 was so bad I feel embarrassed saying it's one of my favorite shows because now I have to urgently follow that up with "No only the first 2 seasons I swear".
It sucks when your favorite show becomes a laughing stock and you know full well its deserving of the hate.
Din Djarin is such a strong main character, better then ones we've had in a long time in Star Wars and they completely misunderstood why, or why his dynamic with Grogu works. We don't like Grogu cus hes quirky and cute, hes cute because they managed to make an emotional and compelling dynamic between an alien baby who cant speak and a stoic and normally silent bounty hunter and their journey of becoming father and son.
It was never about the Mandalorians or Mandalore. It was about how those aspects of Din's life influence who he becomes and who that person he is turning into will influence his foundling son. It was a show about a father and son at its core not a show about a mandalorian and a jedi.
Also keep in mind how they could have and just should have Sebastian Stan play the part. He freaking looks like Mark Hamill, a lot of people love him cause Bucky, and it could have set up an interesting trio. A wiser sorta grandpa-esque character in Luke, Mando being the dad, and Grogu as the child. Luke guiding them both in the ways of the force and how to use Lightsabers (Darksaber sorta counts, sue me). You can also have whats her as a reluctant villain, with the opening beingthis upstart zealot outsider being the newfound heir to Mandalore instead of her leading her to turn on Mando or nearly so. But you also have Dinin a weird spot since he broke a major taboo of his sect. Instead of exploring all that let's undo all the build up with Grogu, once again screw over Luke being a wise but troubled and hyper at times mentor instead of an edgelord, AND make Mando a secondary character in his own show cause ACKTUALLY whats her face is also a MandolorianSO THUS.
Nah its like Indina Jones again. Could've recast Mutt and had it about Mutt trying to connect with his kid and needing Indy's help. Had it in the 70s where it sorta goes full circle with Indy dying the year the first movie comes out or something. Also setting up for a new main character and Henry Sr. Jr. relationship. Could've had it where Mutt's forte is American relics and idk think he has a lead on lost Mayan or Aztec treasure. Or sorta what we got with the Greco-Roman stuff. But instead of all that it's the same issue of not committing to one thing fully. They want to over-use nostalgia, but they also want to do their own thing. And in not being able to blend them together or commit fully you get gobblygock. Look at OPLA. Yeah the story got remixed cause short-term TV vs. long-term, but it works. While not everyone is a fan I really like the Garp and Koby moments. If they get to a certain part of the story it will pay off well and we will see a similar relationship with Luffy and Blank (albiet we sorta see it with Luffy and Shanks but trust me on this) But that's my point. They had all these interesting mentor-mentoree moments to explore across Star Wars and Indiana Jones, and since TLJ it's like they want to just skip over it or make fun of it.
Again, how flipping cool would it have been to see Sebastian Stan as Luke be a mentor for Grogu and Mando? And by the end you have a badass Mando basically lightsaber in one hand plasma gun in the other like some full on Space Pirate Knight. BUT NOOOOO LUKE CANT BE SEEN AS A COMPOTENT MENTOR CAUSE TEEHEE FUDGE HIM.
Sorry for the rant it just irks me so much they have all these great things they fumble. Like Obi-wan was in love with that Mandalorian princess why tf not make Rey a Jedi-Mandalore mix and Obi-wan's great-granddaughter? What cause the Force is for everyone? Oh wait no cause the only people that matter are Skywalkers and Palpatines???
You should make video essay about this; you have some very interesting thoughts that I would like to hear more of
Yesss all of this 👏🏾
The potential conflict between Din and Bo-Katan could've also been made more interesting if they'd explored the clear parallels between them. Both have lost their biological families during the Clone Wars, both found new allies who abandoned them for totally arbitrary reasons related to old Mandalorian traditions, and both are (at the start of the new season) totally alone and adrift with no real purpose and no idea what to do with themselves. Really diving into that aspect of the characters could've made a very interesting story for the season in which these two characters develop a strong rivalry (perhaps encouraged by Gideon, who acts as a Hannibal Lecter type character manipulating them from his prison cell), and over the course of the season realise they have a lot in common with each other, and decide to join forces for a common purpose of some kind. That could've been a very interesting idea that would've made for a more dynamic character-driven story, and it could've been done without totally undermining the emotionally satisfying ending of season 2
I absolutely loved the 1st season of the show. It was so refreshing to see a self contained story in star wars. Then they riddled the 2nd season with a bunch of cameos i didn't care at all about as I haven't watched the clone wars. So I still haven't seen a single episode of 3rd season and as I have heard, it didn't get much better.
Clone wars is literally the best piece of star wars media
I love Clone Wars but Disney really needs to control their cameo tendencies, and yeah I would just accept season 2 finale as the actual end of the series cause not only it gets worse in season 3 I would argue some of the stuff they do undoes previous character development and plotpoints.
Even having seen clone wars as like, my first star wars thing, and having so much nostalgia for it as a result, the cameos were just... the show was just straight up better as something self contained, whether you like the people they brought in or not
Lol no. You’re not gonna sit there and act like season 2 wasn’t bigger and had way better ratings than season 1, oh boo hoo they had an Ahsoka & Luke cameo even though it made perfect sense. Cry about it. Nothing ever makes you fans happy
best part of that is that as someone who has seen and enjoys Clone Wars, knowing who the cameos were was just annoying and distracting
I fell asleep on Episode 1 in the movie theater at least twice. The first time I remember on the drive home talking about how I heard Maul died but he actually didnt and the entire car got real quiet.
I didn’t want to admit it to myself. But you’ve hit the nail right on the head.
It wasn't Rey and Kylo Ren who gained massive popularity prior to the release of The Force Awakens. It was both Finn and Kylo Ren. Disney released a short teaser trailer for TFA that showed Kylo Ren igniting his lightsaber and Finn igniting the blue lightsaber shortly before their fight in the snow forest. This teaser blew up immediately, and fans online were quick to theorize if Finn was the main character in the sequel trilogy, and discussions were happening on how cool Kylo Rens design and lightsaber was. Finn specifically garnered immense responses, good and bad, but most of the conversations around his reveal were positive. No one was talking about Rey. No one even knew how significant her character was at that point, and i remember because i was one of those people, along with my sister having these conversations and theories. Rey didn't become popular until after TFA was released. Kylo Ren and Finn became popular because of the teaser trailer.
All three were hyper popular before the movies even came out. At my school there were like 5 girls dressed as Rey for Halloween.
It was a real miss step in making Ray the main character. Finn was the perfect setup. Going from a common foot soldier to a true freedom fighting Jedi would've amazing. There were so many things you could do with it. Like having him not kill other stormtroopers because he knew what it was like being taken from your home and being force-fed propaganda so when he's faced with inevitable stormtrooper deaths, he has a lot of inner turmoil. Having him come to terms with the fact that a lot of the things he was taught were very biased and straight-up lies. Throughout the trilogy, he could become a living legend amongst the storm troopers, eventually leading to a full-blown revolution in the final movie. There are so many ideas, and this is just from the top of my head.
@notimeforcreativenamesjust3034 I wholeheartedly agree. Everyone involved in creating the sequel trilogy, apart from the actors themselves, really dropped the ball when it came to Finns character. He has the most potential for a great Star Wars character with an intriguing setup, and yet Disney, Kathleen Kennedy, and JJ Abrams disregarded that. That had lightning in a bottle and instead chose to throw it away.
As someone that never lost the mental image of IG-88 brutally murdering his way out of the lab where he was constructed in the Legends bounty hunter anthology; the scene of IG-11 clearing out the base with Mando was worth the entire show existing imo.
Agreed. IG-11 was amazing.
@@lw1391 IG-11's introduction is really one of those "this is exactly how I imagined it in my head as a kid" moments
@@scribeslendy595 IG-11's arc was perfect and very rare example of letting a popular character go, although again in S3 they tried to bring him back somewhat because he was popular (which of course sucked)
Ah, the IG-series story. So brilliant.
I think, so I am.
@seidenzopf922 so glad to to find someone else that remembers that particular story.
What you said about Solo is so spot on. The reason why Rogue One works is because it is an one off with new characters. It is just a refreshing movie with new likeable characters. Solo should have been about another bounty hunter. Han Solo is iconic already and should be put to rest already.
"new likeable characters" I literally don't remember a single character for that movie, except Cassian, and that's only because they made an entire show about him. He was completely forgettable in R1 along with the rest of the cast.
@@jakefoley9539 K2SO? Chirrut? Baze? Krennic? Come on Jake.
@@blackjackal8770 I know who K2S0 is, but I can't really remember any of his lines, just that he was pretty run of the mill comedic relief for a modern movie. I have no recollection of who Chirrut and Baze are, at least not by name. Krennic was alright but he didn't do much and was completely overshadowed in his own role by Vader. To be fair, I've only seen the movie twice, but I can still usually identify memorable characters in a good movie after only two viewings. Rogue One was a very decent movie with very forgettable characters.
This was a BRILLIANT long-form video essay! I came from your Flash video and I LOVE the way you storytell! I couldn't agree more with all of the points you touched on in this video! Keep up the great content work! Cheers!
13:30 looking back now... those people were likely paid by Disney to give those reactions in those costumes
I didn't personally have a problem with Grogu rejoining the series because they set up a new plot for him. Grogu choose to become a Mandalorian instead of a Jedi while still having to train with the force. I thought season 3 was going to focus on Mando and Grogu as the got to really develop their relationship as parent and child now that they could without an impending goodbye, while also diving into what it meant to be a Mandalorian after the fall of Mandalor. This would also allow for the character arc they set up for Din at the end of The Book of Boba Fett where he redefines himself as a Mandalorian and deals with the current state of the Mandalorian people. Actually watching Grogu train to become a Mandalorian instead of having that relegated to like a couple of scenes over the course of the season could have been really cool, especially because Grogu would have been one of the like three Mandalorians in all of Star Wars history to have Jedi training and use of the force. Which would have also tied into the history of the Darksaber. They set up such a good story and then threw it down the drain.
28:52
"It's okay to let stories end!"
Toy Story: *Yeah, about that...*
Don’t remind us. Lol.
I’m still pissed over their blatant ruining of that franchise.
I think this is a great video and I agree with almost everything you said about S3. The one slight quibble I have is the concept that Din/ Grogu’s story (best) ended in the S2 finale.
I think there were many little things dropped in S1 and S2 (and The Book of Boba Fett) that could have been launching pads to really explore the story in S3 that Grogu didn’t belong solely with the Jedi (and away from Din), just like Din didn’t entirely belong in Mandalorian culture. They were both lost children who initially found homes in a faith that gave them protection and comfort, but because of their sad pasts, they also needed the sense of family and belonging that they could only get from each other, as a family of two. S3 didn’t let that theme breathe at all-just plopped the adoption in the last few minutes of the last episode, but The Book of Boba Fett really did show (in 2 great episodes) how miserable they were without each other, and you could see that would be the inevitable result of their separation in the S2 finale. So I would have been infinitely bummed if their story had ended there.
Love the whole video, and especially your tangent/rant. Because that highlighted all the problems I have with Star Wars. And honestly, I think the whole franchise really hit the problem on the head on its own with one line. "Somehow Palpatine has returned."
Sheev is my favourite Star Wars character and even I understand that bringing him back after Episode 6 was a mistake. But for some reason it worked with Maul, so that's probably why they thought they could get away with it. His death was just as final in The Phantom Menace as Sheev's death was in The Return of the Jedi. But the fandom was so thirsty for more Maul content that they didn't realize their own hypocrisy. His return might have been explained a little bit better but not much. And the Maul moneygrab started before Disney took over, I'm actually surprised that they didn't capitalize on him beyond Rebels. But they probably plan to, with some crime lord shenanigans that end up utterly pointless.
It will never not be funny to me that Grogu's name being revealed happened *_after_* Rogu was added to American Dad.
With the whole instant iconography and making new characters with new stories, it sounds a lot like what Warhammer 40k does: having a consistent (albeit confusing) storyline. Yet also being the setting for a wide variety of incredible and engaging stories that have very little to do with the main story.
You make some good points about “instant iconography” and not telling new stories. It’s one of the reasons why Visions is the only piece of Star Wars content I watch anymore. Though it’s not the primary reason.
My primary complaint with modern Star Wars is making the previous story pointless. This to me is the ultimate problem that stems from The Sequel Trilogy. The rebels fought so hard to destroy the empire, it comes right back just called The First Order, Luke has a character arc about becoming a Jedi and reviving the order, well he looses all that and the Jedi order just goes away again and needs to be revived again, Palpatine was defeated by his own arrogance, while he just comes back too. It doesn’t matter how much sense that makes, it’s disappointing to be invested in something and for it to lead to nothing especially after the arc seemingly finished.
There’s also the question of attachments that never gets answered. The Jedi of the prequels had a no attachment policy, Anakin was a great Jedi and general with many accomplishments because he was motivated by protecting people, then he grew dissatisfied with the no attachments rule because it told him to ignore his feelings and he turns to the dark side, Luke became a Jedi and spared Vader and brought him back despite Obi Wan and Yoda telling him that wasn’t possible. What should have followed that was an answer to the question of how much caring is too much? Where is the boundary between love and compassion and a selfish attachment or desire for control or power? How do you not become too attached or detached to avoid the mistakes of the prequel era Jedi or the mistakes of Anakin/Vader? Disney will never answer that question because in addition to making the previous trilogies pointless it also just retold the original trilogy but worse.
Lastly there’s the unending milking of legacy characters that happens to every mainstream ip because money. I’m now way more careful in terms of what media I engage with because of this experience and I avoid mainstream stuff way more than I used to.
Two points:
-First: The thing about SW not being able to tell new stories with new characters. That is not a Star Wars problem, that is a US movie industry problem. Everything is a remake, a prequel, a sequel (but really just a remake) and everything has to be connected to the past. The only (well known) guy in Hollywood that is still creative is Tarantino. And Disney is at the very core of this.
-Second: I think people completely misunderstood the move from Disney to buy SW. They needed a cash cow. There was never any love for the story or connection to the fans or anything. And you can see that very clearly from the start and how they treated SW EU canon and how they didn't even have a plan for the trilogy. It was never supposed to be good. They just needed a cash cow and content for their doomed streaming platform. That's all.
For sure, the movement in a lot of places is to buy properties and amass a "portfolio" based on profitable IP. That's Microsoft buying up a bunch of game studios to keep under its umbrella, and that's Disney buying up a bunch of properties to just churn out content, regardless of quality. As long as it makes money.
I do hope there is a reckoning over this strategy, because OUR zeitgeist, OUR spaces to talk about media online are just being muddied with corporate half-baked efforts all for the sake of "well we have to keep our shareholders happy with more money more often"
When season one came out I thought, “Finally! An episodic space western like we’ve all been wanting!”
But it turns out the creators didn’t know what they had. I think they got lucky, but this wasn’t their intention. They didn’t sit around and decide that their next project would take shape after listening to the fans. This was just a shot in the dark that happened to lineup with what the fan base desired. There’s no one in control who actually understands Star Wars, or the fanbase. They just get lucky sometimes.
That video freakin rocked my guy! I just wish the producers would watch it
Can someone pass this video on to Disney management please? they need to hear this.
Watching this confirms my fears for season 2 Andor, Disney seemed to keep their hands off the first season & then when they found out how much fans loved it & gave it a legit critical hit, I’m really worried they are going to destroy Andor this season now.
I have been saying the same thing about Solo for years! I was actually excited to see Alden Ehrenreich take on the character of Han Solo, but after I saw it, I couldn't help thinking how much stronger the story would have been if they had just made an original story like they did in Rogue One, it would have been SO much stronger. I told everyone "It's just a fun heist movie" but most people I talked to didn't care because of how "wrong" they felt the character of Han was in the movie.
I disagree on the part of Star Wars fans flocking over entirely new characters simply because of the instant iconography. Andor was finally a Star Wars show that didn't have to revolve around characters we've seen multiple times and yet it was the lowest-viewed SW show. In the meantime, other Star Wars shows that relied HEAVILY on linking back to past SW characters got way more buzz and eyes regardless of quality.
As much as I hate to say it, most Star Wars fans really are that nostalgic and attached to the past, which would explain why Disney is afraid of breaking out of that system.
I completely agree. I think that part of the problem is Star Wars fans themselves. Like fans went apesh*t when Luke made that cameo in the Mando S2 finale (don’t get me wrong, I loved that episode too). And yet when Disney finally delivered a good, self-contained Star Wars story like Andor, most fans didn’t care about it and some even said that it “didn’t feel Star Wars enough”
I think alot of that is because disney, and who they have directing and writing. We will sit through a trash shows for beloved characters like Obi-won knowing it's aweful but not willing to suffer through it without those ties. Cal ketsis is one of my favorite characters in star wars now and he's a new addition, the game developers seemed to get star wars more than any show runner has for disney.
To be fair, the only reason I didn't watch Andor is because I was fatigued of Star Wars, as I imagine many people were at that point. It's not the show's fault, but no one was really in the wrong for not wanting to watch more Star Wars media for different reasons. It came out at a bad time.
@@Narp99I can kinda get the not star wars enough thing. Lightsabers duels and the force is what comes to mind when you think starwars, it's what drew me in as a kid and made me love it. Andor only appeals to established starwars fans.
Disney wasn't afraid to break the system it was because they didn't respect the past and thought they could do better and look at what happened and if you knew that the reason why the older fans are that way it is because the EU spanned decades in story and it centered around Han, Luke and Leia's advantages, the growth of their families and the rise of the New Republic and the birth of Luke's new Jedi Order and the many threats that came their way.
Plus in the EU there were many new characters that came along and we fell for them almost as quickly as we did with the OG characters. Do your research and will get the full scope of why fans(old and new) are pissed off with Disney's violation of this legendary IP.
That's a great point about the franchise's ability to create iconic characters, but I think that often happens by accident and it's not always predictable what will catch on with the public. No-one expected Baby Yoda to be such a big thing and it kind-of caught everyone off guard. But when they've tried to shove iconic "cute" characters onto the audience - thinking of Porgs and Babu Frick here - it hasn't worked at all, it was so forced (no pun intended) no-one bought into it.
My biggest issue with star wars overall is that it's supposed to be a lot of galaxys but through the fact that everything connects, you always see someone it feels like the world lives in a 500 person neighberhood.
Orson Wells said: "If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." So I choose to finish the mandalorian story at the end of season 2.
Mandalorian wasn’t amazing but it was serviceable until they made it like the rest of Star Wars. *”Guys you remember THAT legacy thing RIGHT??”*
when he was talking about it, i was like ... wait, that's the whole Disney's business plan for years(past and future), just selling us nostalgia and extended universes for everything starting from Snow White
@@GalinaEvPretty much. It’s sad really. Disney is so insecure about making money with some of the biggest franchises in the world they refuse to do anything that hasn’t worked at some point in the past. I mean fuck the sequel trilogy is half incoherent nonsense and half unfiltered nostalgia bait and with very few exception that has been the model of 95% of Disney Star Wars.
@thecod2345 trying to think of anything original disney did.. maybe pixar staff, but it so blant... 🤷
“DO YOU REMEMBER BOBA FETT?!”
Between seasons 2 and 3 of the mandalorian I got really attached to the idea of reluctant mand'alor din djarin. The fact they used a cop out to get him out of the position made me mad.
Also, I kind of felt like they were aiming toward a din/bo-katan romance and just as I was kind of warming up to it a little it was completely dropped.
Also also, the way they dropped din into book of boba fett was handled poorly. I was so goddamn stoked when I heard the mandalorian theme at the end of episode 4, you wouldn't believe it! but the plot came to a complete halt for like 2 episodes just so we could see where din was... just imply it! Let the audience think for themselves!! Or tell us in flashbacks or something that doesn't slam the brakes on the plot. I had the same issue with the dr. pershing subplot of season 3 of the mandalorian.
I’ve gotten back into Star Wars recently after playing jedi: fallen order and jedi: survivor. Two amazing stories and they got me to watch rebels for the first time and now I’m rewatching clone wars. I’m excited to see where Ashoka goes because I’ve been really enjoying it so far! Mando season 3 was disappointing tho.
Bro, you are so right about them not knowing Grogu was going to be so popular. I don't know how they couldn't see it. Halfway through the first season, I went online because I wanted anything I could find of Grogu, like a stuffy or something like that. I literally could not find anything at all except very expensive handmade things on Etsy or sites like that.
How big of a ball they dropped not getting merch out during the season. Very bad marketing from a franchise known for over-saturating the market with Star Wars shit. I was dumbfounded, someone had better been fired or hired after that billion-dollar mistake.
same with kylo ren, easily the most popular sequel character they could've made more money off redeemed as ben solo.. you'd expect better from disney smh
@@mjmj6645 For real. Kylo has to be the most popular villain there is. They did a good job with him.
Ironically the point you made about wanting a star wars story that had nothing to do with the original trilogy and was from a complete new era or time period, is exactly what I thought The Mandalorian was going to be when I started watching it in season 1.
Think about it. If the baby yoda character in the show had actually been Yoda, then according to what we know about how his species age, his origin story would have taken place 1000 years or so before the original trilogy which is what I thought I was watching in the first couple episodes, until of course it wasn't. What a missed opportunity
Okay, but Disney chose the WORST date for Solo to be released. They chose to premiere it between Infinity War and Deadpool 2 and not in December, like the rest of the Star Wars movies. Why? WHY? It doesn't make sense, they failed Solo so hard in so many ways and it was indeed a very fun movie.
And right after the last Jedi too
@@source3nergy203 It wouldn't be that close if they had released it in December and not in May. It would be a year after The Last Jedi, yes close, but nothing crazy. Roque One came out in 2016 and The Force Awakens in 2015, but they came out both in December.
Releasing it less than 5 months after the last Star Wars movie and in between two of the most awaited movies of the year was a plain dumb move. And it is crazy bc Infinity War was also Disney, don't they like money? Why not keep it for December, like every Star Wars movie since 2015, where there wasn't much competition? I really do not understand this thought process.
It seems they wanted to release it around May 4th, you know may the fourth be with you
@@source3nergy203 Then release it on May fourth and not a week after that? The premier was May 10nth, two week after Infinity War and two Weeks before Deadpool 2. The whole marketing for the movie was messy to say the least.
True
The biggest problem that I have with Season 3 is that it feels like they were building up Din to be a figure that would unify his people and bring back the Mandalorians from the brink of becoming a dead culture in a few generations, like he would have to struggle with the idea of having to do something he never wanted to do which was to lead for a greater good, like to me the fact that he struggled to wield the Dark Saber was part of that idea.
The more he rejected assuming the mantle of Mandalore the less capable he was at fighting and he would eventually accept the mantle and become the unifier of his people, him being a foundling which means he wasn't born into a mandalorian house but rather that he was a person who became mandalorian through his upbringing to me was a much more impactful message, also I am always annoyed by how homogenously human the Mandalorians are even though it isn't uncommon for non human children to be adopted by mandalorians, anyways as I was saying him assuming the mantle would have been the moment where the Mandalorian Culture is seen as thriving to its fullest extent, we didn't need Grogu or any character other than those characters that are mandalorian.
To me at least when they starting positioning Bo as the leader of Mandalore once again was when I was really loosing interesting because to me she was mostly a mentor to Din, someone who has made mistakes and teaches others how not to commit them anymore, but it feels like the writers just don't learn, she already tried to rule Mandalore only for the planet and its people to be destroyed by the empire, the story of The Mandalorian stopped being about Din and it became about a legacy character that while it was cool to see them I wasn't there for their story, I wanted the story of Din because it felt like it still had parts of it that were crucial still untold.
Your instant iconography hypothesis is really solid.
Though, regarding Solo... whilst I like your idea a lot, I don't think Solo bombed because of that. I think it was backlash from TLJ, which was still fresh on everyone's mind. See, I don't think Disney Lucasfilm truly understands how Star Wars "marketing" actually works. Every family has that one or two people (could even be the kids) who are really into it. They end up introducing it to their family.
I'd taken my daughter to The Last Jedi, and neither of us liked it very much. I don't *hate* the movie, but it certainly wasn't a very good movie.
Later we went to see the family for Christmas, and they asked "What movie should all go see togehter? Want to see Last Jedi?" They thought me and my kid (who was really into Clone Wars, she introduced me to that) would say yes. But, we were like. Nah. So, we went to Murder on the Orient Express instead.
My point being, Disney lost out on 8 ticket sales (plus the 2 from earlier viewing) because of that movie.
When Solo came out, I feel that the half of the fandom that really didn't like TLJ...not only did they not go. They didn't encourage others to go as well. And, that's what I think is what caused the bomb. When I finally watched it, years after release, I agree with you. It's actually pretty darn fun. I also agree that the spin off concept, be it shows or movies, would have been really cool as well.