Logic Pro on iPad, Subscriptions and the AppStore Pricing structure | haQ attaQ
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- Опубліковано 27 чер 2024
- Apple just announced Logic Pro coming to iPad and this is could change a lot of things. I've been asked by the community wether I'll be switching to Logic Pro or nor when it comes out and how I feel about subscriptions. Here's my answer ...
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GARAGEBAND Video ► • Logic Pro for iPad is ...
HENNY LiveStream ► ua-cam.com/users/livexYFGHlxC...
⏰ TIME STAMPS
0:00 Don't skip!
0:35 Switch to Logic pro?
4:31 Subscriptions
8:11 AppStore pricing & Indie Devs
LINKS to Henny's and Patrick's videos below!
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👨💻 CHANNEL LINKS
GARAGEBAND Logic Video ► ua-cam.com/video/IQrk7oei-1k/v-deo.html
HENNY LiveStream ► ua-cam.com/users/livexYFGHlxCX_o?feature=share
❤ CONNECT WITH ME
PATREON ► www.patreon.com/jakobhaq
PAYPAL DONATE ► www.paypal.me/jakobhaq
INSTAGRAM ► instagram.com/jakob_haq/
DISCORD ► discord.gg/JTmQHAG
🔥 MY PRESET PACK STORE
(My Patreons can download these packs without extra charge over at Patreon)
MAIN PAGE ► jakobhaq.gumroad.com/
🎵 MY MUSIC
DISCOGRAPHY ► hyperfollow.com/jakobhaq
⏰ TIME STAMPS
0:00 Don't skip!
0:35 Switch to Logic pro?
4:31 Subscriptions
8:11 AppStore pricing & Indie Devs
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J how do i put my own drum samples in cubasis. If i can figure that out im good to go.
Cubase sux....switch before you loose more followers dawg!
I’m going to get “it’s ok for people not to like the things that you like” printed on a T-shirt.
Great vid Jakob and thanks for the shoutout, I really appreciate it!
If you start selling them as merch, I’ll buy one!
For me it's not whether I like it or not it's more about the Dolby Atmos plugin. Hoping Apple brings that to iOS with Logic Pro. I'd be so stoked.
Count me in!
I’d go for a T-shirt with ’Other people like things you don’t like, get over it’ for a similar but opposite vibe.
Some of the reviews for this don't make sense. This ua-cam.com/users/postUgkxUGaHtKW8MwCql2fPyIm9-ftTqSMzKFFA works as well as any power strip I've used. Plug in what you need, be sensible about it & keep it movin' The construction is plastic but it's a sturdy piece. It has a single toggle switch & the swivel jacks are useful as well. Plugged in next to Tripp Lite Isobar takes some of these reviews with a pinch of sumthin' - does what it says & functions properly.Had for about a month. Perfect no complaints will update if anything changes.
Spot on, on all accounts, Jakob. I dislike subscriptions, so in turn I won't inflict them on my users, but... yeah... that means I gotta have a day job because you can't make a (North European) living with iOS Music Apps currently.
I discovered your channel a few days ago. Very informative with a certain kind of humor which I like. Keep it up.
Sending people to another video just at the beginning. This really shows that you appreciate your viewers and their time! I let this video run while watching the other anyways!
I agree with what you said, specifically about app pricing! Glad that you’ve addressed it and let people know how you feel. Thank you 🙏🏽
Tack, tack ! Du är för rolig, hade ett gott skratt !
Great video, glad you felt you needed to say what you said, cause I feel it needed to be heard!
Thanks for another great video Jakob!
My pleasure! 👊
Thanks for this👍🏼
You’re right. The full Cubase on iOS would be awesome. Bet Steinberg would go for subscription pricing though.
You literally jumped on my iPhone 😂
Wonderful to start my day with a little break 😇😆
Great video bro!
really good vid man! i'm so stoked for logic on ipad but I always love your insight on this ecosystem
I absolutely agree that apps across the board need to go up in price. At the same time, the stability of plugins on the platform needs to increase in tandem with the increase in cost, or it will be a bit hard to deal with.
iOS/MacOS software kept me buying Apple hardware for life. I will think twice if now i have to pay for software for life too. On the other hand i applaud the subscription model for people who want to jump on the Logic wagon for 1-2 years. Everything would be ok if there would be a 'full price for life' option too.
Great thoughts I totally agree with. (almost seems like you read my mind)!
I’ll never stop using AUM/Loopy Pro but I’m excited to have a full DAW on iOS. I’m definitely gonna be giving it a whirl. Also thank you for presenting a nuanced take. A lot of the convos about this have severely lacked that.
I agree with most of what you said. Thank you
Your dvd (or blue-ray or whatever) collection is 🔥🔥🔥
absolutely SUBSCRIBE to everything you said in this video .. thanks for making it 👍👍👍
Nice vid, agree with much of that, definitely a good step for ipad music production and pro apps to match the pro specs of newer ipads
As a developer (not of music apps) and casual hobbyist, I fully agree with you about developers needing to earn enough money, and the subscription model has another benefit: lower the barrier to enter music production. I produced a bit 20 years ago, decided to redo it as a hobby and looked at the prices on the desktop…that’s why I embarked on the iPad, simply because I do not want to pay 500 euros for a software that I’ll use just for fun. Paying 5, or even ten or 20 euros per month while I actively pursue the hobby is, on the other end, much easier to swallow. It’s like a subscription to the gym
BTW, thank you so much for your channel, so valuable, interesting, and I love the tone of your videos (and your music)
What would be nice to see is a policy to “grant you” a permanent license after you’ve covered the cost of the whole year.
Whilst your opinion is definitely very true, it is simply not the same to pay for a permanent software vs to rent it.
I do totally agree with you btw huh, I actually started on iPad when I was 14 precisely because I could simply NOT afford to buy software and at least the iPad had a few VERY cheap apps I managed to pick up during a birthday.
One thing I can tell you about the subscription model, is that 14 year old me would still NOT be able to afford such a model, especially considering I’d have to “rent” the thing instead of buying it so I could use it whenever my schedule actually allowed it.
Just like Jakob, I stand behind Loopy’s subscription model. This one is honestly trash - but I’m still gonna check the app out to see just how much it can actually increase my productivity and also whether apple will actually pull it off - cause if they are NOT updating it on the regular then it’s an immediate no for me. I won’t be paying a subscription model for abandonware, which Apple is an expert at developing.
PS: sort of, also a software dev (more like games but yeah same thing honestly just different “subject”).
Thank you so much for commenting your thoughts. And thank you so much for your kind words! 🤍
@@EnriquePage91 You’re thinking about something along the line of Reason studios “rent to own” pricing. They used to have that in the past. Don’t know if they do it now though. But that’s also a think I’d support.
@@JakobHaq Yep. Substance Designer and Painter were apps that used to do this too - until Adobe purchased them and ruined them (as usual). I know the struggle… this model (rent model, that is) has destroyed most of the software I rely on for production. It’s BS tbh.
I agree. Devs need to charge more. I’m sick of abandon projects.
I agree that a "magazine" subscription model is not so bad, as we keep at least something usable even after stopping subs. Hope your words will inspire Industry.
I 100% agree with you Jakob. People don’t think of the economic realities of what it means to release software on iPadOS. Yes, companies want to make money. A lot of people believe that we haven’t had apps like logic because of the lack of power. I have always believed that the prices that people are willing to pay for apps was a bigger issue. Why would a company bring their DAW to IOS and charge less that they would on the desktop? Giving how things work now, that is what they would have to do. I am speculating here but i think it took quite a bit of time and resources to change the way logic works to make it work like an iPad app should. It is hard to ask a company to outlay that amount of resources and expense to get less money. Let’s just say it, it is a gamble. If the logic subscription model works there may be some movement. I don’t like subscriptions either but it makes more sense to me for a DAW than plugins. Plugins do need to be one off purchases for me.
Personally I'm fine with iOS apps getting more expensive. I'm not okay renting software. As an Ableton user, I was interested in logic pro for ipad. But not anymore. Hopefully Ableton live for ipad will be a thing. For now beatmaker 3 is my go to.
Great video! I love hearing your take on the pricing since that has been the main sticking point for people. I’m fine with the 5 bucks, but I’d need a new iPad to run it and I already have it on desktop. 😅
Cubase on the Atari? Me too. It was a revolution, and it changed the way we made music.
But the best thing about LEAVING the iPad behind was the absolute plethora of "free" VST instruments and effects on PC. I went from spending 25-50% of my disposable income on apps (I'm poor, get over it) to spending NOTHING and getting much better results just as easily.
What happened was that my circumstances changed. I retired, and now I spend all day at home, whereas I used to make music on the move, and the iPad was great for that. One day I looked at the iPad sitting atop my piano, and then looked at my computer screen sitting two feet away, and the penny suddenly dropped. My first thought was, I wonder if I could still get Absynth for the PC? I haven't looked back!
Another great vid, I agree with you completely. I was first a Logic MacBook Pro person and later got an iPad so I could use the TE app talk to my OP-Z. Well one thing led to another and I become an iOS music fan. I never found a DAW that I could get behind, now I think I have the best of both worlds. I love AUM and LoopyPro but I’m looking forward to Logic and that was one reason I bought a newer iPad Pro. These are exciting times for iOS music….I really agree with your analysis of subscriptions, LoopyPro is the perfect model
You hit the nail on the head about feelings concerning subscriptions, Jakob! With that said, I will try and probably continue to use logic on iPad, been a longtime user on mac too and was waiting for this! The price is fine with me so far, but I'd prefer a differnt pricing model as you described. Has worked well on Mac for many years.
My thoughts about if apple 'needs' those five dollars a month is more about that Logic is a pro user application, not the main business of apple. We get Garageband for free which is allready amazing, and if those $5 boost up the funding of apple's logic developer team for further advancement and innovation, I'm more than fine with that.
I hope that the plugin world will see this as a reason to develop more for AUV3, and further hope to see logic's own plugins beeing open for use in AUM or similar software (tho the latter is probably not so likely anytime soon). Would be great to have alchemy back, or even sculpture!!!
Thanks for your video, the editing was superb as always
Bonus points for Prospect, that movie is indeed great!
Good job
As a mobile music, producer, and an app developer, I have to agree with pretty much everything you said. Thanks for putting out this video! It’s sad that the majority of the time when a subscription model is implemented, it’s usually one of these larger companies that don’t need the money. Indi developers recognize the pain of having to pay for a subscription because we can’t afford it either. That’s why if we are going to use a subscription model, we think of clever ways to do it, so that the end-user actually gets value out of all the money they’ve dished out when they decide to walk away. And I’m not going to lie, I, myself have deserted apps, that I no longer care to deal with because they are making almost no money, and the problems and the people complaining about them just cause headaches with no benefit.
AGREED WITH ALL YOU SAID, TOTALLY! These are some very, very great points and perfect logic in your evaluations. I’d pay more just to keep the developers in business, easily. Love the, if it breaks or is not updated then what? I don’t make apps, but I do honor and recognize the incredible work efforts these genius developers put in. Thanks for saying it because life is so much better, with the right apps! Peace. 💯👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
I totally agree. A magazin-like subscription would be the best because is addresses my single most biggest concern: after subscription ended I am left with nothing.
That‘s the reason I switcht from Adobe Photoshop to Affinity Photo in the past.
You nailed it. Loopy Pro's approach to buying/upgrading is the one that's fairest to users.
Great vid! Your viewpoints are always insightful, honest and fair. App prices have been ridiculously cheap for their power and performance, they will go up. I don’t mind, my two iPads are maxed out already! (one is an instrument, the other an effects send). Case in point, XinematiX IAP prices have caused a stir. Not a fan of subscriptions, but I did just buy Loopy Pro. Never got Netflix, still buying DVD’s to this day, they’re much cheaper nowadays too! Picked up all three John Wick films last month, dirt cheap! (buy two, get one free). Thanks for all your great content, guided my iOS journey so well over the years. Keep it up, you’re appreciated! 👍
@Jakob Haq your always on point besides your creativity in all is 100 💯🥂🧨
This comes at a great time, just as I’m getting inspired to make music again after several months break. Spent a lot of that down time enjoying my all-time favorite music on my new 2.1 hifi (Kef q350s/cambridge amp), which really helped get my creative juices flowing. Also excited to experiment with Logic’s spacial audio capabilities after spending time exploring Atmos music on a Sonos system. I usually hate subscriptions, but the cost of entry is so low it’s definitely worth a try…and you can always start and stop sub as needed.
Well done Jakob. Very well balanced perspective. I agree that the Loopy Pro model is the best pricing system and makes the most sense.
IPads are already plenty expensive, They will nickel and dime us until the cows come home!! It’s ridiculous. If anything they should charge a one shot payment for the app and a smaller amount for updates. If Logic Pro on iPad is great, people will buy an iPad. It’s a winning formula. But Apple doesn’t care. They just want to drain us in every front. It’s quite sad.
This is a great video Jakob. Nice to see you again.
I recently moved from ios and the mac side over to the windows side mainly for music production. I was tired of feeling so behind and restricted all the time and it taking much longer to do simple things that would take only a few minutes on a pc.
With that said, I do still plan on getting Logic, Final cut, and anything else when it comes out even in the subscription plans. I still do music creation on mobile and mac, just not more than pc now. and the convenience of having such great software now on ipad, I feel, is going to make a nice difference in workflow while on it. hopefully they keep up with the software and keep upgrading and releasing new packs similar to the way they do with garageband on ipad. fingers crossed.
good points!
Good name! 💋
@@JakobHaq Czech alternative :)..you too mate
I started using Logic when it was called Notator and used Cubase on an Atari Falcon, with a built in midi port! I also remember when Logic Pro 7 was £700!
I agree that IOS apps are incredibly/ too cheap for indie devs to prosper. I don't like the subscription model and I like the option of not updating all the time. A choice would be good. I am still a Logic user and v looking forward to the Ipad version, maybe I'll SMPTE it up to my portastudio :0). Great video channel!
Excellent points @jakob Haq. I also use Cubasis as my ios DAW, and I'm pretty sure it will still have access to the same notes, scales, and chords as Logic and most of the AU effects and instruments except those exclusive to Logic Pro. I'll still try Logic Pro for 30 days and see what happens. Again thanks for all you do Jakob
Let's go!
YES!
A very thoughtful video, Jakob. Thank you. I agree with pretty much everything you said. As a mere music hobbyist, oh my goodness, I have so much at my fingertips on my iPad for such relatively little money. What a bargain! Frankly, it's why I've focused on the iPad for music, because I don't have much $ to throw at it. But to some extent it's at the cost of devs struggling financially. Lots of us end up unintentionally contributing to that economic reality. (And you can think of lots of analogies in other markets, international trade, etc.)
Yet -- and I hate to say this (at the best, it's depressing, at the worst, it's gut-wrenging), but -the days of having one job from age 20 to retirement are long, long gone. It's so hard to bullet-proof a career. Even a good idea seems to have a shelf life, because someone else is going to come up with a new/better/trendier one later. Or repackage yours and make it sound cooler.
I notice that Gavinski picked up on the "loss of touch" issue for iPad apps recently as well. Point taken, and I wouldn't be surprised if the issue continues for some time.
Me? I started with Cubasis and AUM just a few years ago. If Steinberg made Cubase available and offered a Loopy Pro-type subscription offer that was reasonable ... boy, I might think about it. At some point.
But Logic Pro on the iPad -- this time there's an app that might actually deserve the term "game changer."
Let's see what the future brings. I'm going to watch from the sidelines with my bag of popcorn.
I’m pretty excited! I moved from iOS music making to working on a Mac about a year ago and this has me looking at my iPad again. I definitely plan on trying it and seeing if I enjoy the workflow.
As far as the subscription goes, Apple could pull an adobe and charge 20-50 dollars a month without a yearly discount. I find 5 dollars a month to be very reasonable so it’s nbd to me.
But seriously, a very well- reasoned discussion 👍
Great vid, and actually that last thought is something that keeps my awake at night, I love iPads for what they were meant to be (plus the pencil) and I absolutely HATE when tech UA-camrs who don’t do anything creative beyond doing reviews, say things like, “iPads can’t be Pro because a laptop is Pro and have a keyboard so we need a keyboard on the iPad” I really can’t express how much contempt I feel towards these people… like, you already have something with a screen and a keyboard, why do you need to ruin the iPad for people who loves touch (and pencil) interfaces? And what worries me is that, as you pointed out, Apple seems to be taking those guys seriously, and targeting them
I bought Logic Pro for $200 in 2015. If that were the same subscription model I would have spent $480 by now. 👎👎
That’s what a lot of people don’t understand….. cheap in the short run….. expensive in the long run….. great if you subscribe for a few months and then bail out after you record your “album”….. I’m not for software subscriptions services….
Interesting! I've been a Cubase user since the 90s. I just didn't know anyone with an Atari computer back in the day (but yes I'm old enough to have seen it then as well lol). My first DAW was Opcode Vision on a Mac. With that said I switched to Cubase in the 90s and was using it up until roughly 7 years ago when I switched to Ableton Live. Now on the iPad I use Cubasis and AUM like you as you know and that's really all I need BUT the elephant in the room here is Dolby Atmos so I'd like to mention that Logic Pro has a Dolby Atmos plugin and if they were to bring that to iOS before anyone else it would def get me on board since moving forward I'm going to start mixing with spatial music in mind as well so I can offer that as an option when I release the tunes to Apple Music. Dolby Atmos is a really big deal. I just returned from both the NAMM show and the NAB show in Vegas (back to back) and all I kept seeing was Dolby Atmos. That was enough to convince me. In fact I'm currently planning to get a new Mac Mini and the latest Logic just so I can mix my stems on it using the Atmos plugin. It is time for an upgrade anyway so I've been looking into Mac Minis.
🤙 Good discussion as always, I agree with you, give us an option to own the products. Am excited to try iPad Logic Pro yes! a bit concerned yes.
Jakob’s sleepover analogy is far more interesting than the Logic Pro topic!
THX 1138 - thx for reminding me, gotta re-watch
For now staying with Cubasis but excited for the future of iOS even more. Will consider Logic depending on the project for sure.
Longtime desktop Pro Tools user here. I still have a 2010mac mini that runs a stable version but that is all that old computer can do. So I got a newer laptop and found out ProTools is only subscription now . I was furious cause I already bought it and own the old version . So now I have newer laptop and have 90 trial of Logic and think it is pretty good . I can buy it for $200 and then own it . Don't really know about the iOS version yet. Now I also have used IOS apps for years and have amassed 100s of them . I own them and could not afford to buy as many if they were all subscription based. Part of the fun and joy of experimenting with sound on an iPad is for a small reasonable amount of money one can explore, learn and tinker with each app. I love learning them and moving on to the next ..then rediscovering an old gem . They are crazy cheap but I don't know if I will adjust to the new trend of subscription greed. The "magazine " approach does indeed seem like a happy medium compromise that makes the most senses to keep Dev's incentivized.
Great job Jacob 👍 interesting thoughts on the subject! I started out with A yamaha msx computer with the music module, then I paid 650 Swiss francs for logic9 I then later bought the application in the app store for a further 200Sfr and then invested in 2 ipads that are now to old to use with the new logic app. My I mac won't load the latest version of logic cause it's too old.
When will all this madness end!
Let us start by not attacking Jakob on the streets of Sweden😂😂😊❤
Not interested in Logic, but Pianoteq is a desktop app that got a full port to iOS and I will support their model. Once I can decide on which pianos to buy.
I’m already dreaming about Ableton on my iPad Pro… 😉
You’re absolutely right about the pricing for iOS apps being too low. No wonder some good apps just disappear into oblivion . A business model for a music production app (which is relatively complex ) that charges only 50€ is just not sustainable.
For example, BeatMaker 3 is a brilliant app, with a clever architecture and design . But it hasn’t been maintained for a long time and I can’t blame the developer.
As for the subscription model, I don’t have a huge problem with it,but it should be optional. For example, a 50$ annual subscription, or a 300$ unlimited license.
As for full blown DAWs coming to iPadOS, it’s about time.
IPads have sufficient processing power, are highly portable and have the advantage of not having a qwerty keyboard that you don’t really use in a DAW much anyway, if you have a good midi controller.
If native Instruments were to port Maschine to the iPad, I would have a killer mobile studio with my Maschine mk3. It already runs on MS surface but those devices are awful….
Agree that Loopy model is the only subscription model that is fair for everyone
Great video Jakob, I agree with your comments, especially about devs abandoning great apps because it's not covering their costs. I don't like subscriptions either but agree that if that is a thing that the loopy pro model is the fairest. My concern with subscriptions is potentially being tied into them forever else your projects made in that software will be lost.
I totally agree with everything you said. 👍👍
Now I’m just waiting for Bitwig to get released for iOS….
The question is, is putting a DAW on iOS economically feasible for developers? The effort required, which is large, needs a return. Just the testing alone is a big effort. How many musicians are going to use it? Will you be able to charge enough to get a return? Devs then need to support yet another very distinct platform with unique challenges, which is a cost that you carry in perpetuity. Not only a unique platform, but multiple generations, different sizes, etc.. And testing, endless testing. Endless support. That’s daunting.
I think this is spot on. The big desk top plugin makers are already gone sub, is it worth their while developing their hundreds of plugins for Ipad? Would iPad users pay 25 a month for one companies plugins? The big companies will wait to see how the take up is on the iPad version of Logic. It will be great at first, but when the novelty wears off and the bill for year 2 comes in, will people still be using it? Maybe that's the point where the plugin guys pay attention. So, It's going to be a while before you can get all the plugins you have on desktop on the iPad.
🤔🤔🤔 I like your magazine subscription comparison: you get to keep the magazines you already paid for. Buy your software, and update each new iteration for a few more $$$ if you choose. Either way, $50 to have access to a pro recording studio for a year ain’t bad. 50 bucks might buy you an hour of studio time back in the day…in the overnight shift. What a time to be alive. 🍷🌏🕊🎩🎩🎩
The other thing about desktop daw apps showing up on iOS - they usually have a lot of audio and midi content with them , so if that’s the case it is going to have a bigger footprint memory wise. You will incur a cost in processing and storage capacity that will be too much for those of us with older iPads that have lesser capabilities. That’s why I use a windows computer for DAWS, vsts , and audio files - I have 5 terabytes of storage - I won’t have to deal with hitting a limit like I am with my Idevices.
I agree with your take on subscriptions. As long as developers can continue to add valued features, it’s worth upgrading. If a particular update isn’t compelling, I can continue to use the product without coughing up additional $. But if the developer comes up with new features that I can use, I’m more than happy to contribute revenue to the developer.
Agree with you “All have the right to like or dislike something”
As a hobbyist I couldn’t get acquainted with Cubasis that’s why my main DAW was Logic on my old Mac Mini 2014
Now this old Mac serves as a daily workstation for my wife and I had to switch to iPad since I already have one because the Apps prices are reasonable, some Apps are ridiculously low va the value they offer users, and some are exaggerated but no bad feeling in general regarding the pricing!
Sometimes I purchase Apps just to give that reason to the dev to continue developing (not a kind of charity) looking to get the best out of the mind of this App’s dev in the future, a kind of saving account for Apps 😅
Have many Apps not supporting AUv3, but who knows, in the future they may rise and give us some of the best creative ways to produce!
I’ll go for Logic while I already have Cubasis, AUM, Keystage, Drambo, and Audio Evolution and I’m sure most of them will join the race!
Great Apps such as Pianoteq will have to wait for a little because I’m not ready to pay almost 10k MXN to get the pro edition, but maybe someday with some discount, I can do it.
Thanks, Jakob for all the ideas you share with the community, you have a philosophical way of thinking that I appreciate much.
I suspect this will be what I'll use going forward. If I can integrate Drambo into it really smoothly, then I'm maybe dropping my AUM Drambo workflow. Busing in Cubasis was always a chore, if busing in Logic is better, that's gonna hit the spot.
Can't stand subscriptions. If I'm broke during the time of month the sub is charged, I lose access... I'm broke often enough for that to be a problem.
Great video brother. I’m not a fan of the subscription model but I do understand it from a developer support and business standpoint. It would usually be a no for me but I ACTUALLY USE LOGIC heavily as a way of income. I gotta see if this is worth it.
Thanks bro! 👊 It’s a no for me to but I will of course be trying it out and give a review of it. I don’t think my audience would forgive me if I didn’t. 😅😂
I’ll try the free month trial. If I like it, maybe I’ll continue with it. But I’m also against subscriptions. But I’ll give it a shot.
I use the iPad for sketching then continue on PC (windows), so I'd only pay if it allows (unlike GarageBand) to export tracks to MIDI. Looking forward to the release just to find out this detail 😅
I will most definitely check it out for a month, and i don’t think the subscription price is all that bad if it is a really good app. So i will not jump to any premature conclusions until i actually got my fingers on it. Seems like a great app for my brand new 12.9” M2 iPad Pro.
Very reasonable Jakob. Totally agree with you. Well said as usual. The touch aspect is very important as well. At this point I’m recommending all of of students in Digital Media have iOS hardware for digital imaging as well as audio/video production. The price of apps must go up, it’s unavoidable. For the platform to remain a viable place for development people have to get paid. As iOS hardware gets more and more powerful I think it could supplant desktop OS. Maybe. We will see. Thanks again for all your videos brah.
Haha. I was wondering when you were going to make a video about this 😉.
First about the DAW. I have never used logic and therefor i have not been craveing it for IPad. That said i have been craving a good great DAW on ipad.
I left “computermusic” for about 15 years and i don’t have a desktop new enough for modern music software. I got back to electronic musik because i fell in love with the IOS platform.
I love the ios platform because i love to jam, so for the most part im happy with what i have. But some times i really need a DAW. I been working a bit with Cubasis and I like it but it lacks the most important feature that i need in a DAW. I need a DAW because one of my good friends makes short horror movies and i compose the music.
I made the music for his latest movie in Auria Pro and it was an absolute nightmare. I don’t like to give software a lot of shit BUT with this project I spended more time reconstructing my work because of chrashes and corrupted files than making music.
I only used Auria Pro because it video sync with the transport. If Logic can do that trick i’ll jump right in since i’m working on a new film music project and I will NEVER use Auria Pro again
Anyway my latest and first film music can be watched and listened to here
ua-cam.com/video/DX3w7_gFCrs/v-deo.html
( btw i’m also one of the shity actors 😄)
Next up. Your views on subscriptions. I absolutely agree on each and every word.
Next up. About app priceing. I absolutely agree on each and every word.
We have been SUPER spoiled about the prices on IOS app for too long. I mean. HOW THE HELL could Drambo 2.0 be a free upgrade? Why is Koala sampler SOOO cheap? Is there no limmit to these great devs generosity??!?
I got happey when i saw that Bram Bos’s latest app Hilda was around 13 dollas.
First of all. These GREAT devs deserves to be payed probertly for their hard work. Also i wan’t them to keep on doing what they do.
I fully understand musicmakers who can’t afford all the gear they wan’t. Been there done that, THRUST ME. But because I don’t have enough money doesn’t mean that the guy who is making my tools shouldn’t be payed what he/she deserves.
Apple has enough money. I totally get it. I’m NOT talking about Apple. I’m talking about the independent devs here.
Wow that was a long one. Thanks for making it to the end 😉
I like the perspective you brought to these topics. So here are my thoughts as I can remember the topics.
Will I switch to Logic? Probably not, and for the same reasons you aren’t. I use Studio One on my Mac Studio. On iOS, I’m still rocking Auria Pro, but I’m considering switching to Cubasis just for the AU aspect. Both of these apps are similar to Studio One, so I’d imagine the transition would be not as painful.
I’m on the fence about subscription based software. I can agree with you on your philosophy pertaining to subscriptions, but I’d also not want everything to be subscription based.
As for pricing, I think that we have been spoiled as iOS users. When I first got into iOS music production, I appreciated the fact that prices were cheap, but as time wore on, the quality of the apps has improved. This probably means a whole lot more code needs to be written. That takes time, and time is money. Imagine doing your day job for less than a living wage(we see that a lot in our country). Now, imagine you’re the boss of your company and not making enough to pay your bills. Should $5 apps be $50? I’d hope not, but I think going to $10 is reasonable. And hey, if you have an app that will do something the latest and greatest can do, so you need to buy it? That said, let’s show the independent app devs some love and help them stay in the game.
I’m sure I have more to say, but I’ll stop there. Keep up the good work Jakob!
Great video. I think the good news for Indie developers is that Apple bringing their flagship DAW to iPad should bring more potential customers to the platform for those devs. Even if their prices stay the same, they may have the potential to get more sales from a bigger pool of buyers, and thus more revenue. That’s the theory anyway. As for will I switch? I don’t know, I’ve never used Logic. I’ll for sure try it free for a month.
I agree with everything you said, Jakob. Thanks for this video. :)
My opinion is that I don’t think there is a good solution. Or at least not a “one size fits all” solution.
Subscriptions can work out well here and there, especially for pros who can spend the money on their workhorses, when the offer is really a “pro” offer. This works well especially for covering maintenance and bug fixing.
Btw, in the case of Logic Pro (and other DAWs), the iPad plugins and sound libraries are not on par with the desktop. And that is why Logic Pro iPad is still not a “pro” offer: you cannot just take your desktop / laptop project mobile and continue to work on mobile. (This may work better for things like video editing, at least for parts of the workflow like a rough cut, where no special plugins are needed.) I guess this will get better over time, including for higher priced and higher end plugins.
But as you said, managing a few hundred subscriptions for apps and plugins is not a great option: it’s just too much, and too expensive in the end.
It can be a better option for developers to form cooperations or alliances or maybe even studios. They can bundle their resources to do maintenance and bug fixing, and keep each others’ apps alive. And they can offer users better deals, including bundles. The downside is that this will slowly concentrate market power.
But on the other hand, the path is still open for everyone to create an innovative plugin or app, and start selling it in the app store. That is the real beauty of a platform with an app store: a market for software, open to all developers.
The rights & source code for some apps will also be bought by developers who want to bundle them and sell and maintain those bundles. This is probably a good thing for developers who want to go on to new projects. Some developers tend to like doing new projects, while others like staying on the same projects more. (And some try to find a middle ground.)
In the end, I believe the future belongs to staggered pricing models: a low price for owning an app / plugin, but without getting any updates / fixes, except for the worst problems. This is for hobbyists and people who want to try out the software. A medium price that includes all updates / fixes but not upgrades, or only for one or two major versions. This is for semi-pros and starters. And a magazine-like subscription (Loopy Pro model) or a higher price that includes all updates for as long as you are subscribed, and when the subscription ends it degrades to either the low priced or the mid priced option. (That is, the user still owns the app, but only gets (very) limited fixes & updates.)
So, I guess what I am thinking is: there is wiggle room for all sides to figure this out. App stores in general give us a market where this can play out. Problems like the concentration of market power need to be sorted out (see Epic Games vs Apple). There is no ideal world, but there still are possibilities.
Fully agree with you Jakob, in all areas.. The Loopy Pro model is the way to go.. everyone wins..
Always concerned for the Indie Devs.. they make some of the absolute coolest shit on iOS.. I wouldn’t use an iDevice at all if they weren’t around..
I enjoy the journey of creating music on my iPad because it always begins in a different way.. maybe in AUM.. maybe in Loopy Pro.. maybe in Drambo.. maybe just a standalone app.. or a combo of any of the above.. the choices that we have are enormous + fairly affordable at the moment.. if an app catches your ear or eye, you’ll probably pick it up because it’s a relatively a low cost compared to desktop prices..
I’m an Ableton guy all the way.. I’ve got Logic + tried a few others.. Ableton just clicks with me.. Logic confuses the hell out of me.. it comes down to your personal workflow.. Who knows, maybe Loopy Pro (once it hits desktop) will become my favourite.. I’m always open to try anything..
Like you, I’m happy for all the Logic users who wished for and will finally receive Logic on their iPads.. and as Henny mentioned, perhaps others will follow Apple’s lead.. time will tell.. more eyes on mobile devices can’t hurt.. can it?
Appreciate your insights Jakob.. your experience as a mobile musician speaks volumes.. Can we all just learn to get along.. it’s OK to not like something.. no need for attacking anyone on that basis.. Thanks for sharing this.. 🙏
Yes… I’ll pony up $49/yr. It’s my mainstay app on the Mac. I agree about overly cheap pricing. Some of these synths are amazing on iOS and they would easily cost 3-4 times as much if they were on desktop. I don’t know if there’s a way out though. People just won’t pay more than a certain amount for any synth
Krull! What a movie! I just got Logan’s Run, do you have that one? I agree with you entirely about the subscription model. I love this video because it speaks so much sense. I may just have to get the free trial out of curiosity but I too am a Cubase guy. I used the first ever version on the ST and I’m using 12 Pro on my desktop now. To be honest, a few extra features from Cubase added to Cubasis 3 and I would have everything I want. Better routing options, tempo track, mono mixdown, mono freeze, a nice drum editor…. But the lack of these things has not prevented me from recording music and releasing it. I think a lot of people miss the point that the sound that comes out of the speakers - the finished product, is all that matters. And people arguing and being vile because someone else uses a different DAW - wow! Relax people, have some cake and learn a new chord - and be happy. X
Got a massive list of movies I’ll be buying, I’m basically hunting them on auction sites to try to save money. So it’ll take a long time to collect them all. Logan’s run is on that list. 👍
@@JakobHaq I love that film. Possibly my absolute favourite movie ever though is the original Planet Of The Apes.
The last bit of your vid really highlights how I see the IOS platform as a touch based platform and not for running desktop apps. Although I understand for some, it's their way of working. Totally fine. As for subscription, not for me. I do have some like youtube premium but that's ok in that instance. If I cancel it, I don't care. As for software, I think the loopy pro model is pretty cool for me on IOS. Just pay to upgrade once a year. Totally fine with that. OR pay for certain extra features like it's been on IOS for a long time. At least, If I have my ipad for 8-9 years or more, the apps will still function until the ipad dies out.
I love your friend’s place. Is he a troll 😅? Also seems like a nice safe place to keep your magazines.
He’s very shy and does not like it when I confirm the fact that he is a troll so I can’t answer that question. 💋
I will try it out for a month. But you’re not going to have any VST’s to run with it? Most of us use VST’s with our DAW. So are you stuck using the sounds that come with it? Can I use my music apps on my iPad with it? Are they compatible? I have questions 🤔
Apple’s web site shows Logic for iPad using existing AUv3 iPad apps. Hopefully this will convince more developers of desktop plug-ins to port to the iPad.
i agree with you on the price thing, i couldnt afford all the plugins i have on ios if it were pc. edit- I don’t care about logic I want renoise! unchanged… I would use a keyboard anyway thats just how you operate a tracker. As far as DAWs go though I’m with you, I’m happy with cubase, as a mater of fact I would really like to try it on PC. I dig the interface design
Gonna stick with Zenbeats. Cross all platforms and Roland is making steady improvements to the OS.
As it needs an A12 chip then I can’t try it on my lovely iPad Pro 10.5, I will wait a few years. Hopefully, they’ll give up on the subscription model by then! Enjoy everyone who gets it but I’ll stick with what I’ve got for now.
I don’t know when (or if) I’ll be able to get a new iPad to use Logic…so it’s all academic for me. I did use Logic between 2005 and 2010 ish and I liked it BUT I’ve enjoyed my iPad music making soo much more. And I’ve made much better music these last 10 years or so on iOS than I ever did on a computer…And I hate subscriptions :)
ohhh..the Will S slap heard around the world ..funny
Good old Atari ST does were the days 😻🎹🎶
@5:28 Pro level 9000 edit 🤣🤣🤣
Haha ❤ i think this is my favourite video of yours. I agree with you that people rage a bit when they simply don’t like each others DAW of choice 🤣 thats crazy.
But I think peoples views against subscription models preferring the “buy it” or “magazine/loopy pro” model is as flawed as subscription. I think subscription is a good incentive to larger companies to ensure keeping up with the competition and ensuring quality.
Imagine an update is buggy as hell and the subscriptions stop? A fix is going to come faster than what the updates from some companies currently do on the “buy it” model.
As you said, there are many apps we refer to as “abandonware”. Devs move on, they get bored, get poached, get ill health and even die sometimes! And one day.. that paid for software is not going to work. The os platform and hardware superseded.
I had Windows PC for 20 years… plenty of things I bought no longer work (although there may be workarounds.. emulators etc… its not ideal). Earlier I had synthesisers on a Commodore 64… why should I expect updates for life, to new OSes? Its a crazy Idea thats never been real, but is expected by many Ipad users.
One day, Michael from Loopy Pro will move on or sadly retire or whatever. And Loopy Pro will also become “abandonware”. Maybe it will still run on IOS 35 and a Neural Network Processor… I cannot be sure! 😉
I think many of us expect too much for our money. Your right about pricing… I want sustainability! I want my favourite Devs to be comfortable and more!
Stay safe out there Jakob, I heard some Logic Subscribers are looking to get you😉🙈
Don’t worry. I found a good cave to hide in!
@@JakobHaq 😂 I will be grumbling in my cave that Logics drum machine designer should become an AUV3. Never Happy!
Work with what you got is always the best philosophy! Make do, if it does not doit.. do something with it that it does do.
I really appreciate this message with the subscriber count you have as it gets to more ears. Yes, many will try to find you on the street. For the rest of us, we need to look in the mirror. I am currently uploading a video where I simply thank the devs for what they do in a thankless jobs. Even said some similar things. "devs gotta eat too!" I am tired of the consumer wanting more and more and the next update 10 min after an app drops. We have TOO many apps that can allow us to do great things. Yet we spend time on the wrong keyboard. Mash potatoes. Not the devs.
Great point you made about Logic Pro. You've been making stuff for 10 years.
yes it's just me and you on aum and cubasis 3 lol i can't support a model when if they could they would do this with every app.
I'll share my thoughts on this soon. Including a perspective that I haven't seen anyone talking about yet. :)
Sens mentor link when you drop the vid. I’d love to see it!
@@JakobHaq :) Will do!
Subscription model, from APPLE! No-go! The loopy model is ok. And don't forget, Apple charges a lot for just hosting apps at the app store! Between 15% and 30%
There are so many "cheap" subscriptions, I wonder how companies expect us to pay $5 here and there for everything.
I do like the magasine, or stuff where you rent for 2 years and then you "own" the software, that's a fantastic way to not have huge upfront costs. yet not subscribe for 5years for the same thing.
I think there’s a trade off between the price of an app and how many people buy it. Higher prices may not save some developers.
Could anybody answer a question? I’ve been looking everywhere and can’t seem to find an answer, if I own Logic Pro already will I need to buy the subscription for iPad as well? Basically forcing us to pay even more then I already dumped into it?? $200+300 for logic and Final Cut! Hope I don’t have to pay an additional 5$ a month for something I already own???