I think the more accurate term would be: Both eras of God of War are important. Cause, afaik, ever since the Norse reboot of sorts, people are constantly ignoring the Greek era, to the point that media are using the Norse era Kratos as the definitive Kratos. While thinking the Greek era was nothing but poorly-aged slop. True, the Norse Saga was VERY needed. But we need to acknowledge the Greek era too.
Which is Ironic because Valhalla in a lot of ways is Greek Saga Fan Service. Not that it’s a bad thing, I think it’s good that Santa Monica isn’t throwing that part of the game out.
The entire series builds off itself, the media, both the pro GoW and anti GoW crowds you see are ignoring this bullshit because the truth doesn't sell clicks. But yes, everything in the series is required to fully enjoy each game. Especially with Valhalla showing that the devs don't think old Kratos was worse but rather Kratos would ultimately evolve into who he is today.
When I was a kid, I had a lot of rage issues from a highly dysfunctional family. God of War 1-3 was extremely therapeutic and I related very much to Kratos. Once I got away from home, I made a lot of changes and turned out pretty stable, happy and fulfilled. So getting to play the new games and essentially helping my childhood comfort hero do the same meant so much. Not gonna shit on anyone for disagreeing, but Holy Hell do I love 2018 and Ragnarok
While I think conceptually GoW4 could have been a new fresh ip for Sony, I agree to this sentiment wholeheartedly. It was worth it to see Kratos having a semblance of happiness again.
The only people that think that the new kratos is weak or neutered never grew up the way you did. And good on you for changing yourself so much my dude.
Exactly I have rage issues too and mannn the old games was really comforting to play and it was really fun and seeing Kratos change made me change. The Batman Arkham games also give me this aswell.
if you had rage issues and now you relate to new games bc u healed, that's more on you than the games. don't view the greek games as a testosterone rage bait just bc you had rage issues. they were more than that if you're willing to look beyond the superficial interpretations
The Greek games were the tragedy, making who he is. The Nordic games were the recovery, letting Kratos undo himself and truly understand what he had been through, and most importantly how to heal from what had happened to him
The Misunderstanding of Greek Tragedy: The Greek games didn’t simply establish Kratos as a tragic figure for the sake of tearing him down later; they grounded him in the consequences of his actions. His rage, regret, and search for redemption weren’t meant to be healed away like some pesky ailment. They were the defining struggles of a man who had done the unspeakable and was grappling with the impossibility of absolution. Tragedy wasn’t a stepping stone-it was the soul of his character. Reducing this to “setup” for future healing is to miss the entire point. Recovery at the Cost of Depth: What these Norse games have done isn’t “recovery” but sanitization. They’ve stripped Kratos down to a sanitized version that speaks in calm, measured tones, offering sage advice rather than bearing the weight of his past with real consequence. You call it healing; in truth, it’s defanging-a neutered version of his original spirit, his torment reduced to vague, philosophical ponderings about fatherhood and restraint. If anything, it feels like a cheap attempt to make Kratos "relatable" to modern audiences, not a genuine continuation of his path. Healing as a Cop-Out: Healing is not an arc that magically fits every character, nor does it automatically deepen the narrative. To think that the answer to every tragic character’s journey is "healing" is as surface-level as it gets. Healing from tragedy is complex, painful, and often bittersweet-it’s not a warm epilogue to a violent saga. True “recovery” would mean Kratos confronting the fact that redemption is not guaranteed, that some wounds cannot be healed, and that his legacy is a bloodstained one. But that depth? Nowhere to be found in the Norse arc. The Undermining of Identity: This version of Kratos may sound nice on paper for those who want to see a morally reformed, enlightened figure, but it’s not Kratos. The original was built not to be some poster boy for overcoming rage, but a warning, a figure whose path of redemption was filled with struggle, not resolution. His tragedy was his fate, his core. Stripping that to give audiences a feel-good ending isn’t bold; it’s cowardly.
I dont believe fans dont want this. I believe they're just tired of the new fans crapping on the older game. God of war was always deep it did not start with 2018.
@egocentricblack3278 completely agreed and Also them dumbing down the gameplay was a complete stupid they could have done what dmc5 did keepkeep the complex story while improve upon the gameplay
Yeah this is what has always confused me about the discourse around these games. Kratos has always been an incredibly deep, complex, tragic character. The key difference between the old games and the new games is Atreus, in the old games Kratos had nothing, his family had all been taken from him so all he had was revenge. In the new games he has Atreus, which means he still has hope, he has something to fight for and protect so we get to see that side of him. I never understood the people who think the new games ‘ruined the character’ because to me it was a completely logical and incredibly well written evolution of Kratos.
Interesting how you bring up comparing Kratos's actions to Robert J. Oppenheimer. Because in Ghost of Sparta, after Kratos carries his dead brother to his grave, I remember Kratos says, "By the gods, what have I become?" Zeus, disguised as the Grave Digger, replies with, "Death. The destroyer of worlds."
For me, my biggest issue with the GOW discord is that some people fail to recognize or respect the existence of the Greek Saga. Primarily, the way Kratos was depicted. He became a monster by the end of it all, but it is because of that we can appreciate the story told in the Norse Saga. Also. Personally, I like the combat of the old games more than the new ones. Maybe I will grow to love it over time, but that remains to be seen.
I don't know if they wanna do that the greek gameplay has a entirely different feel that wouldn't really be progressing the style. Like look at how the camera works in the older games compared to the new ones
I hope not, the gameplay from the norse games are just top notch to me, and I dont really like the Heck'n' slash gameplay. We already have 6 games with it god damn it!
A wise man once said (and I'm paraphrasing a bit) change is good, we're all different people than we were when we started, just remember all the people you were
I honestly feel like the biggest "problem" is that there hasn't really been any God of War style action games since 2013. There were tons of God of War imitations in the 7th generation, which helped contribute to the series feeling stale, but there was basically nothing in the 8th gen aside from the remaster of God of War 3. Funnily enough, if they had gone with option 3, they might have been successful, at least for one game, as people had been given enough time without the series, and the gameplay style, to start to miss it. If there was a new IP continuing in the greek sagas shoes, then i think people wouldn't be as upset at the franchise evolving. Its similar to Zelda changing with Breath of the Wild. With classic 3d Zelda seemingly gone, where else are the fans supposed to get that experience? There aren't exactly a lot of big 3d adventure games like Zelda being made to turn to, are there? And while God of War has plenty of "clones", they are mostly stuck on the PS3/360, so fans can't easily get at them to get their fix. Basically, what I'm saying is we need a rerelease of the Castlevania Lords of Shadow games.
As far as games like the previous 3D Zelda games go, I think the closest thing to that will be Metroid Prime 4 next year, the Prime games have always been kinda similar to 3D Zelda. I heard that the Darksiders trilogy is also like 3D Zelda although I haven't played those yet. Simply a shame Metroid doesn't sell as well as Zelda does, but that's whole other topic.
I agree, by the time Ascension came out, the game series was getting stale. It wasn't a terrible game by any means, it just wasn't really necessary. So it was a wise decision for them to switch it up and give it new life while still making it familiar enough for old fans.
I don't mind that it's Norse now. I hate that they changed the gameplay. Playing "Ascension", the problem wasn't the hack & Slash getting stale. It's how they changed mechanics that made the game feel awkward to play. Sure, the blades are cool in the 3rd Person view, but beating GOW2018 and then moving to "Ascension", that classic combat is just more buttery smooth and satisfying, compared to the "Dark Souls" style combat. I don't dislike the new formula, I just can't unnotice that it's "Last of Us" + "Dark Souls", instead of feeling like a new take on "God of War".
Going backwards in kratos story is a bad idea when it was the greek side. The mid-quels were fine in giving extra detail to kratos and even showing his family and legend being formed just not ascension that was bad. The Norse saga can't be good without the Greek one. It has so many hidden details and plot connections to the Greek saga it's insane people think they can skip it. Some examples are mentioning kratos had a daughter. A brother. Athena zues the blades of chaos being a critical moment in the first Norse game showing how kratos has to keep soldiering on
Ascension had a bad story but as a game is incredible with great art direction and a very human Kratos. 10 years of service to Olympus and we could only come up with 2 games? What about a true start to Kratos' story? That's what I thought Ascension's story would be about. But as a epic poem type of game, it really feels like a journey while 3 is very much a video game.
"It's insane people think they can skip it." I don't think it's their fault, blame Santa Monica/Sony for that. They only brought back one game from that saga (3) and only gave us a cloud version of the first two GOW games. The only way you can play all of those games if you have a PS2, PS3, PSP/Vita laying around or a decent PC to emulate them. Sony doesn't care about preservation.
@@BlurXIII There’s a good chunk of people that actively wouldn’t play them out of some sense of superiority because they have preconceived notions about the Greek games. That’s what he’s referring to.
@@lux4163 You actually bring up one of my issues with the Norse games. This is good and bad. Good because I agree that they stand on their own. Bad because if you don’t really need to play the old games, why bother connecting them? Just make a new franchise. God of Tricks or something. Honestly I’d never play them without the connection to the old games, but even then the connections take a backseat to everything else. You could remove Kratos and it still works, at that point they shouldn’t be calling it God of War.
People who play God of War because they are expecting nothing but an immature gorefest with no depth are playing the wrong series. It has always had depth, that's what drew me to the series. And i only really played 3 for many many years
@@DoomUvbthese "evidences" are available on UA-cam where you could watch the entire cutscenes of the entire god of war greek saga or just play all the damn 6 games on any console if you have it.
From a narrative perspective, I enjoy both the Greek and Norse games, but I consider the Norse games to be a lot less casual friendly gameplay-wise. I find managing both Kratos and Atreus/your partner character simultaneously to be a bit of a hassle and a bit of a barrier to entry if you're not good at on-the-spot multitasking, and I'm really not. I also feel that the Norse games are more fun to watch than they are to play, because they put a REALLY strong effort into making them feel like movies over gameplay.
Not even the person who created Kratos wanted Kratos to grow. The thing with GoW 2018 and Ragnarok is that now there are no limits. Nothing can NOT happen in that universe, and now they can jump from mythology to mythology. No direction they could have taken when there is an entire world to rebuild? Come on... A lot of things are better than "if it's the end of the world just get a new one". Nothing is out of the question now. Can Kratos end up meeting Ra? Maybe. I mean, why not? The gameplay is there for a wider audience. It's not a natural evolution of the hack and slash genre at all. In fact, the camera is one of the worst aspects of these games. Camera wise, GoW 2018 did it a lot worse than Ghost Of Tsushima. It shouldn't look like Dark Souls meets The Last Of Us with the way enemies move, and the amount of those we face. During boss fights? Perfect. The vast majority of the time? It's just annoying. Camera tweaks wouldn't be one of the most popular mods if this wasn't a problem.
I kind of have lost respect for whatever David Jaffe wants when he seems a little too up his own bum at times and he only really directed the first game anyways he had little power over where the series went after that somewhat
Camera-wise, I think Space Marine 2 does it pretty well. It's over-the-shoulder when you're moving around and aiming, but it goes into a more traditional hack-and-slash camera when you're doing melee combos. Maybe the next God of War can utilize something similar.
@@chandlerburse We are entitled to our personal opinions about the guy. I hold almost no respect for David due to his behavior towards Fritanga, but this is personal, and has no weight in the fact that he possesses an intimate understanding of Kratos as a character. He knows who Kratos is at his core and what he ought to represent, because he created him. The franchise was originally conceived as a trilogy, with David being really important for two of those titles, and contributing to even more. It is not as he lacked an envisioned conclusion or played no role in God of War 3. Kratos, as he exists in the majority of the series (before 2018), owes much of his development to David's influence. The narrative arc of Kratos, both as a father and a warrior, had a conclusion. The only reason we saw the rise of numerous prequels and the eventual creation of the 2018 installment is due to the franchise's unexpected surge in popularity. This is also why we ended up having so many Assassin’s Creed games, if you think about it. This is, already, a "what if' scenario". "What if we explore Kratos within the context of various mythologies?", which is something they talked about when they were working in GoW 3. There you have it. There is no goal here. There are no limits. We now just want to see Kratos fighting more gods, and they're probably going to find a good reason for that happening in the future too.
Yeah I mostly agree with the title. I love Ascension but can see how to bring the series to a bigger audience they decided to change a lot of the basic stuff we loved about the Greek ones. I'm hoping the next games completely changes up again.
Like it or not, the gameplay quality just degraded. And the game needed proper cutscene skip options. Mission select as well. And a "shut up" button for Atreus would be in place.
The way I see it, it’s less that the new God of War games are different, so much as they’re reminiscent of the “Sony Movie game.” I.E: Slow walking segments consisting of melodramatic cutscenes and clunky combat that tries to be “weighty.” Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I’ve enjoyed other games like Sleeping Dogs and Red Dead Redemption II, despite them also falling into the same cinematic trappings. It’s just that Ragnarok (as well as other big name Sony game, The Last of Us) doesn’t appeal to me, the same way more recent games, Stellar Blade and Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine II have. Just my opinion, though.
I think it has more to do with the fact they wanted to show every character's story arcs. Atreus and Angrboda,Freya and her brother,Thor and Odin,Thrud and Sif,etc. Which are too many characters in a single game. Like there's also Kratos and Freya arc where they just get on good terms because they trauma bonded over loss of child. Things like this makes weird in a way.
@@AaronBiswas I guess, but to me, it just feels bloated and tedious to me. And much like with The Last of Us, the story might have intricate details and it might be polished, it's just not very fun to me, looking at it as a game.
Gonna be honest I feel like God of war Ragnarok valhalla even though I didn't play the dlc but I feel like it's a good way to probably end kratos arc to be the god of hope than the god of Sparta or god of war.
The thing is, I know you said that the problem is the people who hate the 'change' factor, but I feel like this video does unintentionally group the entirety of the different purpose hating into one circle. Again, only unintentionally. You say you're not talking about the quality of the product, but how can we go off of that when it is essentially one of the aspects that people hate? A lot of people that made peace with the Norse saga 'change' for GoW4... later hated Ragnarok (for reasons beyond the 'change to Norse'). And later loved Valhalla. The Norse saga got so big, where we're not able to say who hates it and for what reason. It's not like it's only one Norse game (anymore). The reasons for hating is also something that varies. My dislike for the new games (that mostly goes for Ragnarok at this point) is solely the game design. The games are only made with gamers IN MIND. The game design aspects I absolutely hate? Goes for every game, be it GoW or whatever other franchise. Some others? Hated the tone. Some hated the Writing of the story. Some hated becuz "GoW should've died with 3" that truly gives me the laughs. These people would NEVERRRR say that if GoW4 didn't happen. You'd have crowds going "Where GoW?" Good video. You're right that it had to change, but the hate is not purely for the change. It's for different things for different people regarding the quality, which you oddly did not bring up the quality.
They need to make games shorter now. Ragnarok is way too big to play again which could've not been a problem if Atreus sections were skippable. Valhalla added much needed replay value to Ragnarok.
My problem with Ragnarok is not that it's too long. But my primary issue with the Norse saga is that, there should have been another game before Ragnarok, where we could have focused more on the supposed dark side of Atreus and prophecy the fathers and sons (which they dropped that plot point completely for some reason) or Freya hunting Kratos. It would have fleshed out things a lot better. My other issues with Ragnarok are that Odin and Thor didn't feel as impactful as Baldur, they tried to make them a lot more complex but I think the execution could have been better and personally I didn't find them as menacing as Baldur. The other issues have pretty much been stated by the community already that being the iron wood section, the final battle,etc.
@@KingArgos-s9q I mean it's kinda incorporated with a shorter game. A miles morales type game could've worked for many plot points like Freya hunting kratos and then forgiving him and like you said. We could've seen the tension between atreus trying to find clues for tyr and having problems with kratos who's trying to make sure Atreus is safe. This tension then could've been a plot point that Odin would use to lure Atreus to the mask. Ragnarok seems like it wanted to do everything. A fimbulwinter Atreus focused game could've helped with Ironwood tbh, Ragnarok then would have had enough time to explore all realms without other characters arc and then have a big war at the end.
Another banger video. Thanks Bacon! This is what I had in mind for a long time. Here's my comment (first half taken from another video of another channel I commented on) For the longest time, I thought GoW3 ending is basically SMS telling us that GOW series is over. Think about it. The Greek saga was about a story of a guy who's getting revenge on people who wronged him. Outsiders who aren't fans believe Kratos kill gods for fun or because he hates gods just because or something like that when we all know that's not true. There's a reason. After GoW3, Ares, the guy who started it all, who made him kill his family by accident, is dead and Zeus, the guy who betrayed him and did other things like kidnapping and torturing his brother, erasing Sparta, and cursing his mother into a monster is also dead. So now what? What else is he gonna do? It doesn't make sense for him to go after other gods from other mythos because they didn't do anything to him. Kratos killed everyone who wronged him and now there's nothing else to do in his life. He destroyed the Greek world and Sparta with it, so he committed sumo-slide. And when Ascension came out and when they said it was a prequal, I said "Yep, GoW is done." Hell even when they started GoW4 in 2014, they didn't want Kratos until Cory stepped in and convinced the team to keep him. This is why (and although the fanbase is split about it and some dislike it) I believe what Cory and SMS did to Kratos in GoW4 and Valhalla (not so much in Ragnarok) was the right move. I've seen people criticize the character change from 3 to 2018. It's understandable. For me, the change make sense. I don't it like from gameplay perspective but it's way too good from story one. This hate mostly comes from gameplay prospective. Kratos' personality in the Greek games was mostly based on his aggressive and violent gameplay, specially the grabble mechanic (Elements like the tragic backstory was later given during development after his design was finalized). People think that this change removes the fun factor of Kratos. You know, controlling a lone-wolf, an unstoppable force and causing mayhem whenever you go. The trilogy made you feel like a god. This is something I agree and disagree. I can see that adding Atreus and supporting cast when the older games didn't really have that kinda ruins the "lone-wolf" vibe of the character and games, for me it really doesn't. Kratos is still, to himself at least, a lone-wolf. He's mostly silent and can do these aggressive finishers to enemies (like the one were he rips the skin off of a wolf). But the problem from me is that Kratos can't go too far. Like, I can't imagine this Kratos doing Hercules dirty like he did in GoW3 or slamming Theseus' head with the door in GoW2. It's messed up but it's fun and that's something I don't see modern Kratos do mostly because the devs or writers don't want to ruin what they established. Heimdall and Magni are the closest we've ever gotten to Kratos being that bastard, but it's from a story perspective and not gameplay perspective. You MASH the button to perform these executions on Hercules and Theseus, which makes it more satisfying for me. In fact, I liked Valhalla the most because it was just Kratos (there's Mimir but I don't mind him. He's a homie) His character shines from story perspective. I'm against the people who say Kratos was one dimensional because he wasn't. And one of your videos talking about it proves that. The guy got what he wanted in 3 but at what cost? People criticize him having a family confuse because he always had one. Kratos, his mannerisms and personality in the Norse games is the exact same from the older ones. He doesn't talk too much and he's a massive loner. He's different because he's not that pissed anymore, and why should he? He's going through the best years of his life and all of the people who wronged him are dead. It's a beautiful redemption story imo Another thing, you also have to keep in mind that Sony was milking the series as much as TLoU nowadays (although unlike TLoU, there were more two games). From 2005-2015 there was 4 console games + 1 mobile game + 2 portable games + 5 remastered games + Kratos as a special guest character in MK, SoulCalibur, PS All Stars and many more. I remember many considered Kratos the Mario or Master Chief of Sony from this amount of milking and marketing. And by 2014/2015, when a concept art of GoW4 was leaked I remember many comments of people being really sick by it like "Oh look, another GoW..." After all of that, of course you're gonna get kind of sick of GoW. Specifically when most of the time, the story and gameplay (not aspects like weapons and physics, but the general aspects like the gameplay, camera, weapon upgrade, etc..) stayed the same in all of the 6 games. What they did imo was a smart choice. I do have criticisms of the Norse gameplay (mainly the weapon upgrade not being as simplistic and the RPG elements being confusing) but overall, it's all good.
4:53 I didn't have that sentiment towards Ghost of Sparta, mostly because I played it on a psp. When you play the psp games on the ps3, it definitively can feel like a step down as well as Chains of Olympus feeling like a trial run. Ghost of Sparta is by all accounts one hell of technical masterpiece for the psp and when you play it that way(or any other handheld), you can appreciate the game for what it is instead of another backstory like Ascension is.
The only thing I didn't like about GoS was the need to copy a lot of 3's feel. CoO is classic GoW, fits perfectly with 1 and 2, and aside from story, Ascension is like an HD version of 1 or 2 as far as the epic poem angle with cool environments and a "nicer" young Kratos going on a journey.
Yeah after killing the Greek Pantheon why does Kratos need to be angry anymore. Him trying to move on and try to raise a new family is a natural progression for him
2018 led me to discover the Greek saga. For that I'll be forever grateful. Just turns out that I love the Norse games just as much! To me, SMS hasn't missed, yes, even including Ascension. But that just may be because I didn't have to wait 3 years for it.
I always knew of the Greek saga but ive always hated hacknslash games so i never had any reason to play them. Then i checked out 2018 and loved it so i decided to check em out and play them. I love them all except Ascension(hated that one, but it looks really nice). I think i like the Norse saga a bit more for personal reasons but i still think the Greek saga is great and god of war 3 is one of the best games ive ever played.
@@YungGxth yea interesting you mention the genre. I did get used to the hack n slash before transitioning back to finishing 2018 as I paused when he got to Helheim to play the Greek trilogy. It was an adjustment getting back to using r1 and r2 instead of square and triangle lol. The only other hack n slash I’ve played is The Force Unleashed which I enjoyed once I got my hands on a ps3. GoW III is in my top 3 games, I love it so much
I always imagined Kratos singlehandedly destroying every single pantheon, one by one, for more noble reasons rather than just vengeful ones. He wouldn't just destroy all pantheons, but he'd also destroy all chaotic forces/entities that would've emerged as a result of a pantheon's destruction, thus true balance would be enforced and they would be replaced by the eternal powers of hope. Kratos would be the avatar, or god, of War, of course, but also Balance, Hope, and even Peace, ironically. I even reimagined him having the scrapped blue tattoo appearance to better show that nobility.
Played both games this summer/September on Steam, and loved them! The Kratos in these two games is awesome, because he retains some parts of his old/rage-filled self, but improves as a person and father at the same time. Also, Sif and Freya are MILFs in my mind 😂
Ngl, this entire video is abit of how i feel about TBP and what came before TBP, there was something about that Previous Channel/Life that i found interesting and worthwhile, especially the Legend of Dragoon Review, I go back to that video every so often, though that channel is unfortunately never going to see the light of day again, i am still glad to stick around for TBP since every video, both past and present, has felt like care was put into them, the total opposite of pumping out slop basically I may not understand why what happened took place in the past, but even if something had to go between then and now, i sincerely do enjoy TBP and what came before
I enjoyed the Norse saga It was more about showing that just because kratos was a monster before it doesn't mean he still is he is something to fight for now something to make him strive to be a better man and it made sense in the context of most of the fans of God of war the original trilogy are all adults now they all have children of their own they're all going through raising their kids to be better than they were which is exactly what kratos is doing it's a nice parallel between the fans of old
That struggle to be better is in more of the Greek saga than not, people just aren't familiar with those games and make assumptions about those games and Kratos that they're mindless and he's a complete monster based on 2nd hand opinions.
This Video surprised me had alot of very good points/arguments as to why we needed the Norse Saga and as someone who prefers the Norse saga of Kratos i felt alienated by the fact that alot of older fans would hang you for preferring this new style of god of war. People even Hate Atreus with a burning pashion to the point that it makes me wonder if Atreus will even come back or will it just be Kratos by himself again 4 me i cant see a game without either one of them. Anyway back to the video something you said made me realize things that didn't even occur to me like how Kratos really couldn't of gone anywhere else with the story in a interesting way that is. Ill say you definitely had a risk in posting the video cause of how the fan base has divided but your video for sure stands away from the crowed with real good points well done Sir!
Both eras are amazing, because we saw the worst from the Ghost of Sparta but we also saw the best from the new God of Hope, I'm glad that this is my third favorite franchise (Behind Zelda and Metroid) and I'm glad to see Kratos growing up not only as a god, but as an example for all of us that we can become better.
I love it all. I grew up playing the greek games and was very sympathetic to Kratos' tragic story and pain because I was also suffering abuse and pain as a kid and those games were my favorite outlet for my emotions. I definitely started feeling apathetic after Ascension, it didn't connect with me like the trilogy or ghost of sparta did, and I moved on. I became an adult, I made mistakes, and tried to rectify them, then 2018 came out and seeing Kratos try to change and choose to be a better person meant so much to me. And Ragnarok being largely about accepting what happened and allowing yourself to heal, to let go is something that fundamentally changed the trajectory of my life. Also helps that I find the new games as fun, if not more than the old games I mastered so many years ago. I have more hours in Ragnarok now than any of the other games by far. I'm not going to say the greek era's story was simple because I don't believe that, but the way Kratos' story as evolved alongside the fanbase is beautiful. This entire franchise means so much to me, I am Kratos, and I bet most people reading this feel the same way, even if you prefer the old games. Either way, we'll always be able to go back to greece, or midgard, and I am so excited for whatever the future has in store for Kratos and Atreus.
The thing is some things that are described as "evolution" that don't really apply. New GOW is not a hack and slash (the definition of a H&S seems to be heavily watered down in recent years), has RPG elements, cutscenes are longer etc. It's an ARPG (ARPG also seems to be more watered down lately). I wouldn't say it's like souls either (you don't get XP you can lose from enemies, no "bonfires," no sequence breaks etc). The reason I prefer old GOW is it's more basic but also more skill based because it doesn't have the RPG elements that gate you (upgrading armor, level, materials, skill unlocks based on story). Don't get me wrong, I like that stuff usually but in more traditional games, I don't like mixing action games with RPG elements (Example; I think Wukong suffered from actively having RPG elements because they were "soft")
Life long god of war fan here, ragnarok is my favourite entry on the franchise "im not considering 3, 3 is my special boy, i would kill for 3" the fact that directives at santa monica had the balls to change their golden goose and change it so much is respectable
To be honest, even though it's a scary thing sometimes but for me I'm scared of changing but it doesn't mean you can't forget about the past but you can't stay in the past either the more you stay in the past you'll never be able to change as an individual the best you can do always be here the now and be here then, enjoy your life with a purpose and change new things to be able to change as a person not consumer wise but by changing how you view yourself and view others,even the world and your actions so you can grow as a person even though there's no such thing as second chances but always remember their is still Hope ( am I right to explain my thoughts?).
Ultimately, I'm not sure what more story there is to tell with Greek Kratos. We know everything about his life: His childhood with his brother, his early days as a spartan warrior, his pact with Ares, his time as the God of War, Zeus's betrayal, and he already got his revenge on Olympus and killed everyone who ever wronged him.
I had a thought recently. Maybe a way to take the game back to its roots in terms of gameplay would be have a spinoff shift focus onto tyr and his arc of learning to become warrior for peace.
I can picture a timeline where the plot of the Norse Saga was just "Kratos starts a new family. Odin kills them. Kratos goes back to his old self and destroys a new pantheon".
I don't think God of War necessarily needed the Norse Saga. That Norse story seems like an interesting God of War fan fiction at best, but the gameplay did not need to regress so badly. The combination of gameplay and storytelling is what made the original GOW games so great, and like it or not, this is something that the Norse Saga failed to live up to.
I feel like what I'm gonna say is kind of an ignorant take but not necesarily without merit. I think people's issue with the game is that it kind of felt like they were throwing the identity of the series trying sooooooooo hard to be like "The Last of Us." That's not necesarily true but there's enough paralels not to make this comparison.
My dad barely made it through the tutorial before deciding it was dumb and quit. I feel like it's not make for those looking for pure spectacle no more. It's made for people who are willing to grow with it
Are there seriously people who hate the Norse games? They are genuinely up there with GOW 3 as the best games in the series and some of the best games we’ve gotten in the past decade at least
I think Ragnarok is a good game not a masterpiece 8/10 tbh and valhalla makes it 9. Ragnarok feels okay but Atreus sections and final bosses are things I think could've been done better.
You should search up God of War's alternate ending interview with David Jaffe. There was definitely a way to finish the series, and it was brilliant. There's still time to get something similar because at least we might get to see Kratos in several mythologies which was always an idea.
I think his vision is still on board with some tweaks. I think he said in GOW 3 kratos would meet his counter parts from norse and Egyptian myths and they'll defeat all the gods of their respective mythologies. However now I feel instead of counter parts kratos himself will go to Egypt. I think I'll be fine with GOW franchise ending. Otherwise it'll just be a big mess to continue his story.
@@AaronBiswas God of War won't end as long as the devs within the studio want to keep making more God of War games. And from what Cory barlog and other lead devs said they are fine with being the God of War studio.
@@byte-bg4ob Depends tbh it can grow as a franchise than kratos story alone. Maybe we'll see Atreus games in the same universe as GOW. But Ig they should just have a finale ending for Kratos tbh. Extra writing for him will complicate his whole story a lot. Probably a few more games with him,I like kratos but I fear about bad writing, Ragnarok already shows this.
@@AaronBiswasI thought since the Roman gods were practically the same as the Greeks I’ve been thinking what if they had a Kratos counterpart. Now while Baldur or Freya seems like it they ultimately tried to make Thor the Norse Kratos counterpart just not destroying the Norse gods.
I agree that while i respect Jaffe for creating both GOW & Twisted Metal, lately he seems to be bitter about someone changing his character (for the better might i add). It seems like Jaffe just likes his characters to be hyper violent Psychopaths
I love that intro 😂 I don't agree it's mid, but i sure do that it wasn't necessary. If anything, Ascension makes lore more confusing with all the oaths and stuff, which of course wasn't a thing back when GoW 1 was in development. 00:39 - Okay, i think if even the devs themselves admitted it, it really is objectively not good. Still like it though. 3:12 - True! My thoughts exactly when i first watched that trailer. Like, what is this, is it a reboot? Okay... It's a CONTINUATION?! NO FUCKING WAY! Please let me know more about it 😅 4:40 - Great point. That's why we feel so excited about something like the fight with Heimdall, because things were turned down for a while prior to that. So we can still enjoy what we were enjoying without experiencing a glut. But there's some things where you can go (but not much), like destroying the whole existence of all Gods is one example, but it's better not to waste such ideas until the right moment, like the proper ending of the franchise. 06:58 - I love there's references to his persona in GoW II and GoS. «Death. The Destroyer of Worlds». So good for the character of Kratos at the time. 11:00 - So true, love this scene. Some people say it's kinda out of character for Kratos to talk this way, but come on, it's literally his thoughts voiced. And for me it's believable enough that he thinks that way. 15:47 - Oh, man, there's a lot of people like that sadly. Or at least they're the most loud. Everytime i scroll through comments on GoW posts at the overall gaming community, the majority of people is like: "Yeaaah, the old GoW? That's the REAL GoW. There was gore, and sex, and violence, that's what made it real. And new Kratos just whines all the time, it's so boring, they made him so weak now". Like, BRO. He "whines" at the very first cutscene of the very first GoW game 😂 You sure you know the series enough to make statements about what's real and what's not? Great video! I think i agree with every word lol. And you pointed out some interesting things, like the fact that Kratos' redemption question is brought up but never still answered, i think because he to himself cannot answer it as well, and that's just a great writing that makes you feel the same as the character you're playing with. People often forget how the whole situation about GoW felt around 2013. I remember it, but it is easy to forget now, after the success of 2018 and Ragnarök. If any game was close to killing the series, it was Ascension sadly, and not any of the Norse games.
Honestly the only thing I want now from The God of War saga at this (I do agree that The Norse God of War games weee a necessary change of pace. For this franchise by the time we got to God of War 4.) point. Would be a definitive ending for the character of Kratos. Cause technically we had a definitive ending for his story. THREE TIMES! The first one was the ambiguous ending of God of War 2005 when he is sitting on Ares throne. Looking after the soldiers of all future wars. God of War 3’s where he tries to kill himself. Then Valhalla with Kratos fully accepting his past and moving on. Just let his story end already!!!
Maybe I'm a special case but I also like the Norse Saga and I'm happy it is like that now because the series grew with me. I'm a big fan of the God Of War series in general and I've played all the games since I was a kid but TODAY if I saw a game in the "old God Of War" style I wouldn't be interested, while a game like the new God Of War has become in the past years the type of game I like (even though I didn't really like those parts where I was like "Am I watching Guardians of the galaxy or playing a GOW game?")
Pretty much gow has the appeal of brutally executing evil caricatures of myth gods Kinda like the the boys or SSKTJL but instead of superheros, its gods
Dad of War was a great story. But the gameplay was not it. But I get the feelings about it. When a story has reached it's natural conclusion doing this can cause problems. It's the problem you get with shows that go too long. At some point its gone on too long. GoW unlike Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper, Ratchet and Clank had somewhere to go narratively that didn't need retcons or major personality shifts. I don't think Dad of War with Kratos is/was a necessary game. Because to me the most interesting parts about it aren't the gameplay.
For me at least, I wish they at least kept the specticle fighter gameplay while adding the narrative found in the Norse Duology, but thats down to a gameplay preference
The change was necessary, but the execution kinda sucked. And everything the new games try to do story-wise, the Greek games already did far better. The final boss in ghost of Sparta was easily more emotional than both Norse games, because for the first time you see prime kratos looking out for someone other than himself and worrying for his brother. It shows you the side of kratos that the new games is desperately shoving in your face like it’s the first time anyone’s ever done it. The new games tries so hard to humanize kratos when the psp games and ascension did it first, and better.
It did. I blame the fact that Norse is a little bit overdone. I personally am more of a fan of Greek mythology but i do like Norse, they already did pretty much everything with the greek games aside from a few minor things. The opposite of the Norse games funny enough, I feel them being 2 games was not enough. I'm excited to see them go with a mythology that's not tackled often,. I'm hoping for Egyptian mythology, I think they could do something really cool with it.
Norse saga is basically what happens when the final boss is slain and we actually see what the characters do. Not many stories let you continue onwards with someone. In the hands of a lesser company kratos would be a side character and used as the IP to bait people. Here we see how kratos is still relevant and slowly being moved to the back as his story is finding it's conclusion naturally Only other time I see this happening is tales of the abyss where Luke Fon Fabre goes through so many plot reveals in the prologue when his hair is long. Then he has to live with what he did and make the journey just better in general Last not playable but nemona in Pokemon where she is already champion and has nothing to do. That's where we come in and basically act like a post game for her to go all out.
Ironically, I feel like they did exactly that. Use GoW to tell a whole other story that Kratos takes a backseat to in the Norse saga, he feels like a guest character. I don't hate the Norse games, but if it wasn't for Kratos I wouldn't have played them. His story ended in 3, we didn't need to see anything after that honestly. He has moments in 2018 with his son, just exists in Ragnarok, Valhalla was what I consider to be a truly Kratos-centric story. Him losing his wife is whatever because it's not like she was killed by Aesir or something, just a convenient Giant-killing sickness. A retread of a sadder story told back in 2005. The character moments in 2018 are good but Ragnarok, man it's Marvel-tier and idk what happened. I get the whole point is "GROWTH: The Game/Last of Us Norse Edition" but it could've been done in a better way, Valhalla is more what I was expecting for the Norse games. I do like the angle of forming a better bond with the kid in 2018, but why would a Kratos who has accomplished his revenge and gave Hope to mankind, be so closed off? Even 3 Kratos had a soft spot for Pandora who he barely met, and his own son he has a "strained" relationship? Anything for the story I guess.
@@Charon569 I agree with you 100 percent on this. It's like it never felt personal to kratos in anything apart from Atreus in Ragnarok. Valhalla was a much better experience where it was more about kratos and less about others. Like sure there was mimir and sigrun arc but it's a side arc not the main one.
"whether you like it or not, something needs to change." Eh, I liked ascension, and IMO the reboot goes a little too far off . Also youre talking like the old style of gameplay wouldnt work, but DMC 5 exists you know.
Funny how people think the greek era Kratos was too dumb and brute with no layers when its them that are too dumb and brute to notice Kratos was always a deep character from GOW 1 to GOW3. Kratos saying "but you were always more than that" to himself is Santa Monica talking to that annoying part of the "fans"
Now for another question;"would the game get the same reception with different mythologies"? Seriously, there are many myths that would not only reinvent the franchise, but underutilised!
I think the character development was needed, but I wish we could’ve seen more brute force moments where Kratos, while still remaining calm, would absolutely overpower his opponents. One thing I absolutely dislike about the new games is the combat system. I absolutely hate it and i wish they would’ve implemented a combat system similar to the Arkham series where the camera would zoom out so it would feel similar to the Greek saga games. Having to constantly move around your camera was annoying
Honestly, the Norse Sagas main issue is that it doesnt properly explain how Kratos overcame his demons and learned to allow himself to love (talking in the case of Faye). It sorta feels like a timeskip we should've gotten after something else (i.e the journey from inbetween sagas).
@@thabangsibanda3282 released way after the first Norse game, but c'mon, not everyone will know from the get-go and plus games >>> novels all the time.
@@nightowl5332. Sure but you need to remember that god of war is ultimately a video game and should stay that way, not every little thing needs to be explained in the game. Many people complained about iron wood part being a long story rather than gameplay. That's why the are comics and novels to explain some of the lore. No matter what they do they can't please everyone. If you don't want to read the comics or novels, then that's not their problem.
@@thabangsibanda3282 sorry, but how Kratos got to the Norse land and how he got calmer in the first place is FAR FROM LITTLE. Ironwood is basically an interactive movie in a video GAME, thats why people complained. Too much exposition and a nothing burger gameplay wise
@@nightowl5332 Kratos explained in gow Ragnarok that he got to the norse lands by traveling with a boat. You clearly didn't listen to all the dialogues yet you complaining smh. All mythologies in gow universe exist on the same planet. For example Egypt mythology is in Egypt, Greek mythology is in Greece, japanese mythology is in Japan etc... Kratos travelled by boat to norse lands, he even travelled to Egypt by boat in the comics, the Egyptians even knew he was the ghost of Sparta, like how the norse gods knew he's the ghost of Sparta, coz all mythologies exist in the same planet and interact with one another. Any person from any mythology can travel to a different land(mythology) by boat.
I do agree that, *for the series to continue,* GoW needed the Norse Saga games, though I'd like to argue 2 points: _1._ Would it be that bad for GoW 3 to be the series conclusion and move on? That game had a great ending, it concluded Kratos' journey pretty well. The 2018 and Ragnarok games taught the player *AGAIN* that random needless violence and revenge are bad and that you shouldn't be numb to other's suffering, but the only possible value in it is seeing *Atreus* learning it, 'cause Kratos already had it by the end of 3. _2._ I feel like a game was needed to better bridge GoW 3 and 2018's, especially to show Kratos' struggle and learning how to control his rage, to better carry the Greek Saga players from "pure anger Kratos" to "focused calm violence" Kratos. It feels like all these happened offscreen (or in comics, but I ain't hunting down supplementary material) and I feel that robs the long time players from experiencing this growth with the character.
Believing Kratos was a completed character after III is fine and doesn't make you a chuddy incel bigot (I looked at your Twitter). Games aren't a temporary consumable. Six great games that are standouts of their genre can be enjoyed indefinitely. The Norse games were made for a broader modern audience. This is just an objective fact. The style of slasher that the old games were aren't something that casual gamers can easily hop into. DMC5 is living proof of this, as it's more of a cult hit than anything despite its production value, assist mode, and range of difficulty settings. Games like The Last of Us sold systems by the millions. 2018 and Ragnarok were made to emulate that feel and sell PS4s and PS5s to more people first, and carry the series second. It's why they have tons and tons of dialogue, made-for-trailers cinematic moments, RPG elements and menuing, quieter characters that speak with modern casual dialects, the skill tree, and a semi-open world, among too many other factors to list. It's fine for a core fan to take issue with the casualization of the series and point out flaws in the writing, because it's something that was once made for them, now turned into something else for the sake of appealing to as many people as possible. God of War "evolved" into just another story-driven ARPG, like The Witcher was, like Assassin's Creed did, like what The Last of Us was. And now its weird subgenre is out another title. Bayonetta and DMC are on hiatus. There's little development in the indie space. And God of War is now an ARPG
I love God of war. 2018, but God of war Ragnarok. Aside from a few good moments really let me down like everything to do with Thor adter the first fight was the worst they built him up to be this awesome. character Almost akin to old kratos, but then it turns out he's just an emotional drunk man child Who doesn't really want to kill. Odin forces him to be evil.
the worst part of Thor by far is saying "nah he is good, he does evil stuff because of Odin" EMMMM EXCUSE ME this Thor kill an entire race, his mother, almost his son and almost Atreus ¡ but i guess "you can change" speech work on him because of PURE LUCK since he did nothing to change except being sober for 3 years and not punch Thrud
@@joshdidgit6398 expand it, the fact Thor has a "Steven Universe moment" out of nowhere because of the writing the depress, control by Odin is actually good i . . . tested it by a lot of this "parent trauma" since is in all modern fiction if you didnt notice my problem is saying "ok is a victim" so they justify being a drunk killer BECAUSE OF ODIN THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE they even implied (in both games) that Thor killed his mother by accident or not and WITHOUT ODIN HAND since the Allfather loved her LMAO more details i add 🤝🤝
@@Morfe02 it never says his actions are excusable they spend a lot of time talking about how Thor could’ve been greater yet wasn’t and his daughter wants to be what he wasnt if i remember right
The norse saga is a step back in many ways gameplay wise. Shit camera, you can wait for magic to refil and cooldown, you're rewarded the same XP regardless of how good or bad you did in a fight. The Greek saga rewarded smarter play, longer combos and you couldn't hang back and just spam magic and arrows and axe throws. The greek saga is better imo.
I think my disconnect with the new series partially comes from people who've never played the originals trying to frame them as lacking depth. My 2nd point of contention is that Ragnarok feels so rushed and leaves a lot of plot threads dangling from 2018. It makes Valhalla feel less like a send off and more like a patchwork to complete a journey kratos should have had within the new series.
they will hate on Ubisoft for keeping things the same and not changing but when Santa Monica evolves and changes in a way that doesnt feel like it is cash grab and people still hate it. Honestly I don't know what people want anymore
You gotta understand the point of view Jaffe is coming from. He envisioned God of War as a mix between Clash of The Titans and Heavy Metal (the animated movie and magazine). I remember that he did an interview a few years ago where he stated that if he did 2018 that he would have kept the emotional and serious parts, but also still included gory and sexual elements from the older games. I also think that his main issue is with Ragnarok and Valhalla, since I remember in the video where he stated his take that he did say that he liked 2018. Keep in mind I am not against the modern games. Even though I have my fair share of problems with them, I still ultimately like 2018 and Ragnarok. But I do feel that Jaffe's opinion is understandable.
Almost everyone here is misinterpreting what Jaffe said. He did say "I don't want these characters to grow" but he clarified that he miscommunicated andd said he meant that the core characteristics that made Kratos himself were removed and that these aren't God of War games. He also stated that Kratos has been written into a corner and that he should be a side character; that Eric Williams was dealt a bad hand when making GoWR. Luffy from One Piece and Vegeta from Dragonball are 2 examples of characters that went through lots of development but their core personalities are still there. I think the real problem was that Cory Barlog didn't fully commit to the Norse Saga like he should've been.
@@christophermercer8791 what exactly do you think Vegeta's core personality is as he changed in pretty much every way. He isn't even grumpy anymore he just looks it.
The first God of War on PS2 is my favorite game of all time but even I recognize rhe character had to mature after a while. I really enjoyed 2018, not as much for ragnarok but 2 solid games that we wouldnt have gotten if they didnt go this new, much needed direction.
Had they not changed the formula, by now we would have a whole bunch of UA-cam vids of “what happened to god of war?” Or “the failure of ascension”. 2018’s game kept it in the conversation
God of war revamp needed to happen for the reasons you mentioned, the Prequel games weren't too much well received and Ascension specially was criticized
GOW 4 truly did something incredible with this story and character and so did the Valhalla DLC. This was always the right choice, although the first GOW game still has the best story out of all of them would love to get the original games on ps5 so I could play through them all the way through again.
The Greek games will always be my favorite. But i can appreciate the Norse games for what they are. Now which one is better is simply up to ones opinion.
Yes indeed. Change was necessary. However change isn't always for better. I'll write it simply. Change of scenery from Greek to Norse? Great idea Graphical improvement (in technology at least)? Sign me up Story more focused on Kratos and how he's doing now? Aw hell yeah Characters? I could listen to them all day Aureus? Nah Music? Meh, good at best Gameplay? Could be cut entirely and my experience with this game would only be better. Now you can hate me.
It's not like Ascension wasn't innovative. It was the franchise's dip into the multiplayer craze back in the early 2010s, and when compared to something like Call of Duty, Ascension's Multiplayer was ambitious, and it worked.
Absolutely fantastic objective take. Why I really like listening to your passion interest videos, you keep them to the point and make fantastic points. I love the progression of Kratos through the Norse games and so many people generalise or don't look deep enough into the games (Both old and new).
Honestly the story for the new games is good but I prefer the gameplay of the old school spectical fighters its why I like the Ghost rider video game so much. my dream version would be two new games with the Norse story but the old gameplay. but thats just me
It's not just gaming but journalism as a whole is the problem. People think that modern Godzilla and Batman movies are complete shit and shouldn't have existed(though some of these claims I do agree with), but having the same character or plot that has been used is so linear and boring to watch. This is why Godzilla Minus One worked so well due to the re-contextualisation of its character(from the original 1954 film) and how it affected the general plot and its characters. But some people say that the movie sucks and it doesn't feel like a Godzilla movie even though the themes of the film are not even the same and is trying to express a different idea.
like it or not, 2018 has a better writing than the last game in fact is stupid to say that title when is obvious that GOW Ascension failed as a secuel-precuel game and some other games like Space Marines 2 (with similar gameplay as old games) are making records than i dont know another Sony game TLOU 2 or Horizon Zero dawn oh and i forgot Black Myth Wukong did what Gow Ragnarok cant do it with billions: making a fight with giants and making a fight against yourself LMAAAAAAAAAAAO
I think the more accurate term would be:
Both eras of God of War are important.
Cause, afaik, ever since the Norse reboot of sorts, people are constantly ignoring the Greek era, to the point that media are using the Norse era Kratos as the definitive Kratos. While thinking the Greek era was nothing but poorly-aged slop.
True, the Norse Saga was VERY needed. But we need to acknowledge the Greek era too.
Which is Ironic because Valhalla in a lot of ways is Greek Saga Fan Service. Not that it’s a bad thing, I think it’s good that Santa Monica isn’t throwing that part of the game out.
@@Zhtrik Yup. We do need to remember the Greek saga once a while. And realize the games there ain't some power fantasy.
Just as the games acknowledges the Greek Quadrilogy and the PSP Duology.
They literally are doing that though. By default there are going to be people who ignore the Greek era because the Norse era is the most popular.
The entire series builds off itself, the media, both the pro GoW and anti GoW crowds you see are ignoring this bullshit because the truth doesn't sell clicks. But yes, everything in the series is required to fully enjoy each game. Especially with Valhalla showing that the devs don't think old Kratos was worse but rather Kratos would ultimately evolve into who he is today.
When I was a kid, I had a lot of rage issues from a highly dysfunctional family. God of War 1-3 was extremely therapeutic and I related very much to Kratos. Once I got away from home, I made a lot of changes and turned out pretty stable, happy and fulfilled. So getting to play the new games and essentially helping my childhood comfort hero do the same meant so much. Not gonna shit on anyone for disagreeing, but Holy Hell do I love 2018 and Ragnarok
While I think conceptually GoW4 could have been a new fresh ip for Sony, I agree to this sentiment wholeheartedly. It was worth it to see Kratos having a semblance of happiness again.
Same
The only people that think that the new kratos is weak or neutered never grew up the way you did.
And good on you for changing yourself so much my dude.
Exactly I have rage issues too and mannn the old games was really comforting to play and it was really fun and seeing Kratos change made me change. The Batman Arkham games also give me this aswell.
if you had rage issues and now you relate to new games bc u healed, that's more on you than the games. don't view the greek games as a testosterone rage bait just bc you had rage issues. they were more than that if you're willing to look beyond the superficial interpretations
The Greek games were the tragedy, making who he is. The Nordic games were the recovery, letting Kratos undo himself and truly understand what he had been through, and most importantly how to heal from what had happened to him
As well as accepting his actions, and forgive himself.
As well as giving us more female characters for us to enjoy in rule34
The Misunderstanding of Greek Tragedy: The Greek games didn’t simply establish Kratos as a tragic figure for the sake of tearing him down later; they grounded him in the consequences of his actions. His rage, regret, and search for redemption weren’t meant to be healed away like some pesky ailment. They were the defining struggles of a man who had done the unspeakable and was grappling with the impossibility of absolution. Tragedy wasn’t a stepping stone-it was the soul of his character. Reducing this to “setup” for future healing is to miss the entire point.
Recovery at the Cost of Depth: What these Norse games have done isn’t “recovery” but sanitization. They’ve stripped Kratos down to a sanitized version that speaks in calm, measured tones, offering sage advice rather than bearing the weight of his past with real consequence. You call it healing; in truth, it’s defanging-a neutered version of his original spirit, his torment reduced to vague, philosophical ponderings about fatherhood and restraint. If anything, it feels like a cheap attempt to make Kratos "relatable" to modern audiences, not a genuine continuation of his path.
Healing as a Cop-Out: Healing is not an arc that magically fits every character, nor does it automatically deepen the narrative. To think that the answer to every tragic character’s journey is "healing" is as surface-level as it gets. Healing from tragedy is complex, painful, and often bittersweet-it’s not a warm epilogue to a violent saga. True “recovery” would mean Kratos confronting the fact that redemption is not guaranteed, that some wounds cannot be healed, and that his legacy is a bloodstained one. But that depth? Nowhere to be found in the Norse arc.
The Undermining of Identity: This version of Kratos may sound nice on paper for those who want to see a morally reformed, enlightened figure, but it’s not Kratos. The original was built not to be some poster boy for overcoming rage, but a warning, a figure whose path of redemption was filled with struggle, not resolution. His tragedy was his fate, his core. Stripping that to give audiences a feel-good ending isn’t bold; it’s cowardly.
I dont believe fans dont want this. I believe they're just tired of the new fans crapping on the older game.
God of war was always deep it did not start with 2018.
Let's not forget that the first thing we ever saw this character do was attempt to commit suicide.
@@TaurusOxford exactly
@egocentricblack3278 completely agreed and Also them dumbing down the gameplay was a complete stupid they could have done what dmc5 did keepkeep the complex story while improve upon the gameplay
Vice versa as well. Some Greek fans will say the franchise has been ruined and that the 'new fans' are wrong
Yeah this is what has always confused me about the discourse around these games. Kratos has always been an incredibly deep, complex, tragic character. The key difference between the old games and the new games is Atreus, in the old games Kratos had nothing, his family had all been taken from him so all he had was revenge. In the new games he has Atreus, which means he still has hope, he has something to fight for and protect so we get to see that side of him. I never understood the people who think the new games ‘ruined the character’ because to me it was a completely logical and incredibly well written evolution of Kratos.
Interesting how you bring up comparing Kratos's actions to Robert J. Oppenheimer.
Because in Ghost of Sparta, after Kratos carries his dead brother to his grave, I remember Kratos says, "By the gods, what have I become?"
Zeus, disguised as the Grave Digger, replies with, "Death. The destroyer of worlds."
That same quote is put in the sky as an easter egg in GoW 2!
GOW greek saga was overly edgy and immature
Norse saga, it's overly preachy and liberal
@@HadesGamesolosgowverseandkrato me when I gave 0 media literacy
@@Jojo-nq3bp
Unironically using "media literacy" is the epitome of midwit.
@@HadesGamesolosgowverseandkrato Oh, yeah, because wanting to help people is dumb and bad, way to go, genius
Woah there, remember what Santa Monica Studios said. “There’s no such thing as a Norse Saga or a Greek Saga, there’s only a God of War Saga”.
God of piss saga when?
There is no Dana, there is only Zuul.
Idk what’s more cringe, that quote or you believing it lol
Well, they were wrong
GOW greek saga was overly edgy and immature
Norse saga, it's overly preachy and liberal
For me, my biggest issue with the GOW discord is that some people fail to recognize or respect the existence of the Greek Saga. Primarily, the way Kratos was depicted. He became a monster by the end of it all, but it is because of that we can appreciate the story told in the Norse Saga.
Also. Personally, I like the combat of the old games more than the new ones. Maybe I will grow to love it over time, but that remains to be seen.
I think the next god of war game should combine the Greek era gameplay with the Norse era storytelling and world building
I don't know if they wanna do that the greek gameplay has a entirely different feel that wouldn't really be progressing the style. Like look at how the camera works in the older games compared to the new ones
@@lightdarksoul2097 maybe combine the gameplay styles to create something like Warhammer 40k Spacemarine
I hope not, the gameplay from the norse games are just top notch to me, and I dont really like the Heck'n' slash gameplay.
We already have 6 games with it god damn it!
I like the idea of Atreus having a full standalone game with vastly different game mechanics. Something like a arcady fast paced shooter
@@Giuseppe_Camole_4073 I like the gameplay too, but a lot of people prefer the Greek gameplay
A wise man once said (and I'm paraphrasing a bit) change is good, we're all different people than we were when we started, just remember all the people you were
Is that from Doctor Who?
Doctor?
@@ryantesorio9257 👀
@@mentalcrowbar9434 THIS change wasn't good, however
@@gonhunter3994in your opinion ye, I like the norse saga personally. I also love the original Greek games as well, and I'm happy both exsist.
Like it or not, the Norse saga needed a jump button
I honestly feel like the biggest "problem" is that there hasn't really been any God of War style action games since 2013. There were tons of God of War imitations in the 7th generation, which helped contribute to the series feeling stale, but there was basically nothing in the 8th gen aside from the remaster of God of War 3. Funnily enough, if they had gone with option 3, they might have been successful, at least for one game, as people had been given enough time without the series, and the gameplay style, to start to miss it.
If there was a new IP continuing in the greek sagas shoes, then i think people wouldn't be as upset at the franchise evolving. Its similar to Zelda changing with Breath of the Wild. With classic 3d Zelda seemingly gone, where else are the fans supposed to get that experience? There aren't exactly a lot of big 3d adventure games like Zelda being made to turn to, are there? And while God of War has plenty of "clones", they are mostly stuck on the PS3/360, so fans can't easily get at them to get their fix.
Basically, what I'm saying is we need a rerelease of the Castlevania Lords of Shadow games.
Remake/remasters could help. I want the next GOW to be more like phantom blade zero
As far as games like the previous 3D Zelda games go, I think the closest thing to that will be Metroid Prime 4 next year, the Prime games have always been kinda similar to 3D Zelda. I heard that the Darksiders trilogy is also like 3D Zelda although I haven't played those yet.
Simply a shame Metroid doesn't sell as well as Zelda does, but that's whole other topic.
I personally love both the old and the new god of war games equally
I agree, by the time Ascension came out, the game series was getting stale. It wasn't a terrible game by any means, it just wasn't really necessary. So it was a wise decision for them to switch it up and give it new life while still making it familiar enough for old fans.
Honestly I’m not a big fan of the gameplay for god of war and Ragnarok but I do appreciate the narrative decision they made for the series.🐱
I don't mind that it's Norse now. I hate that they changed the gameplay. Playing "Ascension", the problem wasn't the hack & Slash getting stale. It's how they changed mechanics that made the game feel awkward to play.
Sure, the blades are cool in the 3rd Person view, but beating GOW2018 and then moving to "Ascension", that classic combat is just more buttery smooth and satisfying, compared to the "Dark Souls" style combat.
I don't dislike the new formula, I just can't unnotice that it's "Last of Us" + "Dark Souls", instead of feeling like a new take on "God of War".
They need to re-release / remaster the Greece games on PS5
Honestly, I’m still baffled that they haven’t already. Ascension in particular could look gorgeous while finally running at a consistent framerate.
Going backwards in kratos story is a bad idea when it was the greek side. The mid-quels were fine in giving extra detail to kratos and even showing his family and legend being formed just not ascension that was bad.
The Norse saga can't be good without the Greek one. It has so many hidden details and plot connections to the Greek saga it's insane people think they can skip it.
Some examples are mentioning kratos had a daughter. A brother. Athena zues the blades of chaos being a critical moment in the first Norse game showing how kratos has to keep soldiering on
Ascension had a bad story but as a game is incredible with great art direction and a very human Kratos. 10 years of service to Olympus and we could only come up with 2 games? What about a true start to Kratos' story? That's what I thought Ascension's story would be about. But as a epic poem type of game, it really feels like a journey while 3 is very much a video game.
The Norse saga absolutely still can be good without the Greek saga. It isn't AS good but they're still good
"It's insane people think they can skip it."
I don't think it's their fault, blame Santa Monica/Sony for that. They only brought back one game from that saga (3) and only gave us a cloud version of the first two GOW games. The only way you can play all of those games if you have a PS2, PS3, PSP/Vita laying around or a decent PC to emulate them. Sony doesn't care about preservation.
@@BlurXIII There’s a good chunk of people that actively wouldn’t play them out of some sense of superiority because they have preconceived notions about the Greek games. That’s what he’s referring to.
@@lux4163 You actually bring up one of my issues with the Norse games. This is good and bad. Good because I agree that they stand on their own. Bad because if you don’t really need to play the old games, why bother connecting them? Just make a new franchise. God of Tricks or something. Honestly I’d never play them without the connection to the old games, but even then the connections take a backseat to everything else. You could remove Kratos and it still works, at that point they shouldn’t be calling it God of War.
People who play God of War because they are expecting nothing but an immature gorefest with no depth are playing the wrong series. It has always had depth, that's what drew me to the series. And i only really played 3 for many many years
Please show some evidence
@@DoomUvb or do your own research and stop expecting to be spoonfed like a child.
@@DoomUvbthese "evidences" are available on UA-cam where you could watch the entire cutscenes of the entire god of war greek saga or just play all the damn 6 games on any console if you have it.
From a narrative perspective, I enjoy both the Greek and Norse games, but I consider the Norse games to be a lot less casual friendly gameplay-wise. I find managing both Kratos and Atreus/your partner character simultaneously to be a bit of a hassle and a bit of a barrier to entry if you're not good at on-the-spot multitasking, and I'm really not. I also feel that the Norse games are more fun to watch than they are to play, because they put a REALLY strong effort into making them feel like movies over gameplay.
Not even the person who created Kratos wanted Kratos to grow. The thing with GoW 2018 and Ragnarok is that now there are no limits. Nothing can NOT happen in that universe, and now they can jump from mythology to mythology. No direction they could have taken when there is an entire world to rebuild? Come on... A lot of things are better than "if it's the end of the world just get a new one". Nothing is out of the question now. Can Kratos end up meeting Ra? Maybe. I mean, why not?
The gameplay is there for a wider audience. It's not a natural evolution of the hack and slash genre at all. In fact, the camera is one of the worst aspects of these games. Camera wise, GoW 2018 did it a lot worse than Ghost Of Tsushima. It shouldn't look like Dark Souls meets The Last Of Us with the way enemies move, and the amount of those we face. During boss fights? Perfect. The vast majority of the time? It's just annoying. Camera tweaks wouldn't be one of the most popular mods if this wasn't a problem.
I kind of have lost respect for whatever David Jaffe wants when he seems a little too up his own bum at times and he only really directed the first game anyways he had little power over where the series went after that somewhat
Camera-wise, I think Space Marine 2 does it pretty well. It's over-the-shoulder when you're moving around and aiming, but it goes into a more traditional hack-and-slash camera when you're doing melee combos. Maybe the next God of War can utilize something similar.
I mean tbf even during the greek era, they had talked about potentially having Kratos meet the Egyptian gods
@@chandlerburse We are entitled to our personal opinions about the guy. I hold almost no respect for David due to his behavior towards Fritanga, but this is personal, and has no weight in the fact that he possesses an intimate understanding of Kratos as a character. He knows who Kratos is at his core and what he ought to represent, because he created him. The franchise was originally conceived as a trilogy, with David being really important for two of those titles, and contributing to even more. It is not as he lacked an envisioned conclusion or played no role in God of War 3. Kratos, as he exists in the majority of the series (before 2018), owes much of his development to David's influence.
The narrative arc of Kratos, both as a father and a warrior, had a conclusion. The only reason we saw the rise of numerous prequels and the eventual creation of the 2018 installment is due to the franchise's unexpected surge in popularity. This is also why we ended up having so many Assassin’s Creed games, if you think about it. This is, already, a "what if' scenario". "What if we explore Kratos within the context of various mythologies?", which is something they talked about when they were working in GoW 3. There you have it. There is no goal here. There are no limits. We now just want to see Kratos fighting more gods, and they're probably going to find a good reason for that happening in the future too.
@@jmanners Yes, that's a surprise too. A shooter did a better job than a GoW game with that.
God of War Ascension is actually a good game. It just wasn't better than God of War 3
Astro Bot is a graveyard? Yeah takes like that are the reason that games journalism has the stigma that it has today!
I prefer seeing Astro Bot as "going back stage and seeing the actors with their make up off."
@@DoctorFail Which is obviously much more wholesome and accurate
@@DoctorFail Actors who haven't been on stage in a decade
@@lightdarksoul2097 how do you know? they're robots and they all look the same outside of costume.
@@DoctorFail The literally costume what are you even talking about.
Yeah I mostly agree with the title. I love Ascension but can see how to bring the series to a bigger audience they decided to change a lot of the basic stuff we loved about the Greek ones. I'm hoping the next games completely changes up again.
Like it or not, the gameplay quality just degraded.
And the game needed proper cutscene skip options. Mission select as well.
And a "shut up" button for Atreus would be in place.
The way I see it, it’s less that the new God of War games are different, so much as they’re reminiscent of the “Sony Movie game.” I.E: Slow walking segments consisting of melodramatic cutscenes and clunky combat that tries to be “weighty.”
Not that there’s anything wrong with that, I’ve enjoyed other games like Sleeping Dogs and Red Dead Redemption II, despite them also falling into the same cinematic trappings.
It’s just that Ragnarok (as well as other big name Sony game, The Last of Us) doesn’t appeal to me, the same way more recent games, Stellar Blade and Warhammer 40,000: Space Marine II have.
Just my opinion, though.
I think it has more to do with the fact they wanted to show every character's story arcs. Atreus and Angrboda,Freya and her brother,Thor and Odin,Thrud and Sif,etc. Which are too many characters in a single game. Like there's also Kratos and Freya arc where they just get on good terms because they trauma bonded over loss of child. Things like this makes weird in a way.
@@AaronBiswas I guess, but to me, it just feels bloated and tedious to me.
And much like with The Last of Us, the story might have intricate details and it might be polished, it's just not very fun to me, looking at it as a game.
@@riokamichika1101 because it is bloated lol, a trilogy would've fixed it but well it is what it is.
You can skip some cutscenes in sleeping dogs.
Gonna be honest I feel like God of war Ragnarok valhalla even though I didn't play the dlc but I feel like it's a good way to probably end kratos arc to be the god of hope than the god of Sparta or god of war.
The thing is, I know you said that the problem is the people who hate the 'change' factor, but I feel like this video does unintentionally group the entirety of the different purpose hating into one circle. Again, only unintentionally.
You say you're not talking about the quality of the product, but how can we go off of that when it is essentially one of the aspects that people hate? A lot of people that made peace with the Norse saga 'change' for GoW4... later hated Ragnarok (for reasons beyond the 'change to Norse'). And later loved Valhalla. The Norse saga got so big, where we're not able to say who hates it and for what reason. It's not like it's only one Norse game (anymore).
The reasons for hating is also something that varies. My dislike for the new games (that mostly goes for Ragnarok at this point) is solely the game design. The games are only made with gamers IN MIND. The game design aspects I absolutely hate? Goes for every game, be it GoW or whatever other franchise.
Some others? Hated the tone. Some hated the Writing of the story. Some hated becuz "GoW should've died with 3" that truly gives me the laughs. These people would NEVERRRR say that if GoW4 didn't happen. You'd have crowds going "Where GoW?"
Good video. You're right that it had to change, but the hate is not purely for the change. It's for different things for different people regarding the quality, which you oddly did not bring up the quality.
They need to make games shorter now. Ragnarok is way too big to play again which could've not been a problem if Atreus sections were skippable. Valhalla added much needed replay value to Ragnarok.
@@AaronBiswas Yup.
My problem with Ragnarok is not that it's too long. But my primary issue with the Norse saga is that, there should have been another game before Ragnarok, where we could have focused more on the supposed dark side of Atreus and prophecy the fathers and sons (which they dropped that plot point completely for some reason) or Freya hunting Kratos. It would have fleshed out things a lot better. My other issues with Ragnarok are that Odin and Thor didn't feel as impactful as Baldur, they tried to make them a lot more complex but I think the execution could have been better and personally I didn't find them as menacing as Baldur. The other issues have pretty much been stated by the community already that being the iron wood section, the final battle,etc.
@@KingArgos-s9q I mean it's kinda incorporated with a shorter game. A miles morales type game could've worked for many plot points like Freya hunting kratos and then forgiving him and like you said. We could've seen the tension between atreus trying to find clues for tyr and having problems with kratos who's trying to make sure Atreus is safe. This tension then could've been a plot point that Odin would use to lure Atreus to the mask. Ragnarok seems like it wanted to do everything. A fimbulwinter Atreus focused game could've helped with Ironwood tbh, Ragnarok then would have had enough time to explore all realms without other characters arc and then have a big war at the end.
Another banger video. Thanks Bacon! This is what I had in mind for a long time. Here's my comment (first half taken from another video of another channel I commented on)
For the longest time, I thought GoW3 ending is basically SMS telling us that GOW series is over. Think about it. The Greek saga was about a story of a guy who's getting revenge on people who wronged him. Outsiders who aren't fans believe Kratos kill gods for fun or because he hates gods just because or something like that when we all know that's not true. There's a reason. After GoW3, Ares, the guy who started it all, who made him kill his family by accident, is dead and Zeus, the guy who betrayed him and did other things like kidnapping and torturing his brother, erasing Sparta, and cursing his mother into a monster is also dead. So now what? What else is he gonna do? It doesn't make sense for him to go after other gods from other mythos because they didn't do anything to him. Kratos killed everyone who wronged him and now there's nothing else to do in his life. He destroyed the Greek world and Sparta with it, so he committed sumo-slide. And when Ascension came out and when they said it was a prequal, I said "Yep, GoW is done." Hell even when they started GoW4 in 2014, they didn't want Kratos until Cory stepped in and convinced the team to keep him. This is why (and although the fanbase is split about it and some dislike it) I believe what Cory and SMS did to Kratos in GoW4 and Valhalla (not so much in Ragnarok) was the right move.
I've seen people criticize the character change from 3 to 2018. It's understandable. For me, the change make sense. I don't it like from gameplay perspective but it's way too good from story one.
This hate mostly comes from gameplay prospective. Kratos' personality in the Greek games was mostly based on his aggressive and violent gameplay, specially the grabble mechanic (Elements like the tragic backstory was later given during development after his design was finalized). People think that this change removes the fun factor of Kratos. You know, controlling a lone-wolf, an unstoppable force and causing mayhem whenever you go. The trilogy made you feel like a god. This is something I agree and disagree. I can see that adding Atreus and supporting cast when the older games didn't really have that kinda ruins the "lone-wolf" vibe of the character and games, for me it really doesn't. Kratos is still, to himself at least, a lone-wolf. He's mostly silent and can do these aggressive finishers to enemies (like the one were he rips the skin off of a wolf). But the problem from me is that Kratos can't go too far. Like, I can't imagine this Kratos doing Hercules dirty like he did in GoW3 or slamming Theseus' head with the door in GoW2. It's messed up but it's fun and that's something I don't see modern Kratos do mostly because the devs or writers don't want to ruin what they established. Heimdall and Magni are the closest we've ever gotten to Kratos being that bastard, but it's from a story perspective and not gameplay perspective. You MASH the button to perform these executions on Hercules and Theseus, which makes it more satisfying for me. In fact, I liked Valhalla the most because it was just Kratos (there's Mimir but I don't mind him. He's a homie)
His character shines from story perspective. I'm against the people who say Kratos was one dimensional because he wasn't. And one of your videos talking about it proves that. The guy got what he wanted in 3 but at what cost? People criticize him having a family confuse because he always had one. Kratos, his mannerisms and personality in the Norse games is the exact same from the older ones. He doesn't talk too much and he's a massive loner. He's different because he's not that pissed anymore, and why should he? He's going through the best years of his life and all of the people who wronged him are dead. It's a beautiful redemption story imo
Another thing, you also have to keep in mind that Sony was milking the series as much as TLoU nowadays (although unlike TLoU, there were more two games). From 2005-2015 there was 4 console games + 1 mobile game + 2 portable games + 5 remastered games + Kratos as a special guest character in MK, SoulCalibur, PS All Stars and many more. I remember many considered Kratos the Mario or Master Chief of Sony from this amount of milking and marketing. And by 2014/2015, when a concept art of GoW4 was leaked I remember many comments of people being really sick by it like "Oh look, another GoW..."
After all of that, of course you're gonna get kind of sick of GoW. Specifically when most of the time, the story and gameplay (not aspects like weapons and physics, but the general aspects like the gameplay, camera, weapon upgrade, etc..) stayed the same in all of the 6 games. What they did imo was a smart choice. I do have criticisms of the Norse gameplay (mainly the weapon upgrade not being as simplistic and the RPG elements being confusing) but overall, it's all good.
4:53 I didn't have that sentiment towards Ghost of Sparta, mostly because I played it on a psp. When you play the psp games on the ps3, it definitively can feel like a step down as well as Chains of Olympus feeling like a trial run. Ghost of Sparta is by all accounts one hell of technical masterpiece for the psp and when you play it that way(or any other handheld), you can appreciate the game for what it is instead of another backstory like Ascension is.
The only thing I didn't like about GoS was the need to copy a lot of 3's feel. CoO is classic GoW, fits perfectly with 1 and 2, and aside from story, Ascension is like an HD version of 1 or 2 as far as the epic poem angle with cool environments and a "nicer" young Kratos going on a journey.
Yeah after killing the Greek Pantheon why does Kratos need to be angry anymore.
Him trying to move on and try to raise a new family is a natural progression for him
2018 led me to discover the Greek saga. For that I'll be forever grateful. Just turns out that I love the Norse games just as much! To me, SMS hasn't missed, yes, even including Ascension. But that just may be because I didn't have to wait 3 years for it.
I always knew of the Greek saga but ive always hated hacknslash games so i never had any reason to play them. Then i checked out 2018 and loved it so i decided to check em out and play them. I love them all except Ascension(hated that one, but it looks really nice). I think i like the Norse saga a bit more for personal reasons but i still think the Greek saga is great and god of war 3 is one of the best games ive ever played.
@@YungGxth yea interesting you mention the genre. I did get used to the hack n slash before transitioning back to finishing 2018 as I paused when he got to Helheim to play the Greek trilogy. It was an adjustment getting back to using r1 and r2 instead of square and triangle lol. The only other hack n slash I’ve played is The Force Unleashed which I enjoyed once I got my hands on a ps3.
GoW III is in my top 3 games, I love it so much
I always imagined Kratos singlehandedly destroying every single pantheon, one by one, for more noble reasons rather than just vengeful ones. He wouldn't just destroy all pantheons, but he'd also destroy all chaotic forces/entities that would've emerged as a result of a pantheon's destruction, thus true balance would be enforced and they would be replaced by the eternal powers of hope. Kratos would be the avatar, or god, of War, of course, but also Balance, Hope, and even Peace, ironically. I even reimagined him having the scrapped blue tattoo appearance to better show that nobility.
Really happy to see this kind of video, also a wonderful amount of viewers sure didn't like seeing this take
Played both games this summer/September on Steam, and loved them! The Kratos in these two games is awesome, because he retains some parts of his old/rage-filled self, but improves as a person and father at the same time. Also, Sif and Freya are MILFs in my mind 😂
Ngl, this entire video is abit of how i feel about TBP and what came before TBP, there was something about that Previous Channel/Life that i found interesting and worthwhile, especially the Legend of Dragoon Review, I go back to that video every so often, though that channel is unfortunately never going to see the light of day again, i am still glad to stick around for TBP since every video, both past and present, has felt like care was put into them, the total opposite of pumping out slop basically
I may not understand why what happened took place in the past, but even if something had to go between then and now, i sincerely do enjoy TBP and what came before
I enjoyed the Norse saga It was more about showing that just because kratos was a monster before it doesn't mean he still is he is something to fight for now something to make him strive to be a better man and it made sense in the context of most of the fans of God of war the original trilogy are all adults now they all have children of their own they're all going through raising their kids to be better than they were which is exactly what kratos is doing it's a nice parallel between the fans of old
That struggle to be better is in more of the Greek saga than not, people just aren't familiar with those games and make assumptions about those games and Kratos that they're mindless and he's a complete monster based on 2nd hand opinions.
This Video surprised me had alot of very good points/arguments as to why we needed the Norse Saga and as someone who prefers the Norse saga of Kratos i felt alienated by the fact that alot of older fans would hang you for preferring this new style of god of war. People even Hate Atreus with a burning pashion to the point that it makes me wonder if Atreus will even come back or will it just be Kratos by himself again 4 me i cant see a game without either one of them. Anyway back to the video something you said made me realize things that didn't even occur to me like how Kratos really couldn't of gone anywhere else with the story in a interesting way that is. Ill say you definitely had a risk in posting the video cause of how the fan base has divided but your video for sure stands away from the crowed with real good points well done Sir!
Both eras are amazing, because we saw the worst from the Ghost of Sparta but we also saw the best from the new God of Hope, I'm glad that this is my third favorite franchise (Behind Zelda and Metroid) and I'm glad to see Kratos growing up not only as a god, but as an example for all of us that we can become better.
I love it all. I grew up playing the greek games and was very sympathetic to Kratos' tragic story and pain because I was also suffering abuse and pain as a kid and those games were my favorite outlet for my emotions. I definitely started feeling apathetic after Ascension, it didn't connect with me like the trilogy or ghost of sparta did, and I moved on. I became an adult, I made mistakes, and tried to rectify them, then 2018 came out and seeing Kratos try to change and choose to be a better person meant so much to me. And Ragnarok being largely about accepting what happened and allowing yourself to heal, to let go is something that fundamentally changed the trajectory of my life. Also helps that I find the new games as fun, if not more than the old games I mastered so many years ago. I have more hours in Ragnarok now than any of the other games by far.
I'm not going to say the greek era's story was simple because I don't believe that, but the way Kratos' story as evolved alongside the fanbase is beautiful.
This entire franchise means so much to me, I am Kratos, and I bet most people reading this feel the same way, even if you prefer the old games.
Either way, we'll always be able to go back to greece, or midgard, and I am so excited for whatever the future has in store for Kratos and Atreus.
The thing is some things that are described as "evolution" that don't really apply. New GOW is not a hack and slash (the definition of a H&S seems to be heavily watered down in recent years), has RPG elements, cutscenes are longer etc. It's an ARPG (ARPG also seems to be more watered down lately). I wouldn't say it's like souls either (you don't get XP you can lose from enemies, no "bonfires," no sequence breaks etc). The reason I prefer old GOW is it's more basic but also more skill based because it doesn't have the RPG elements that gate you (upgrading armor, level, materials, skill unlocks based on story). Don't get me wrong, I like that stuff usually but in more traditional games, I don't like mixing action games with RPG elements (Example; I think Wukong suffered from actively having RPG elements because they were "soft")
That’s sad that traditional reporters’ only up side is that they have access to greater resources.
Life long god of war fan here, ragnarok is my favourite entry on the franchise "im not considering 3, 3 is my special boy, i would kill for 3" the fact that directives at santa monica had the balls to change their golden goose and change it so much is respectable
To be honest, even though it's a scary thing sometimes but for me I'm scared of changing but it doesn't mean you can't forget about the past but you can't stay in the past either the more you stay in the past you'll never be able to change as an individual the best you can do always be here the now and be here then, enjoy your life with a purpose and change new things to be able to change as a person not consumer wise but by changing how you view yourself and view others,even the world and your actions so you can grow as a person even though there's no such thing as second chances but always remember their is still Hope ( am I right to explain my thoughts?).
So, Greek Kratos is GMK/Minus One/94 Godzilla, and Norse Kratos is Heisei/Monsterverse/Mechagodzilla 3?
Ultimately, I'm not sure what more story there is to tell with Greek Kratos. We know everything about his life: His childhood with his brother, his early days as a spartan warrior, his pact with Ares, his time as the God of War, Zeus's betrayal, and he already got his revenge on Olympus and killed everyone who ever wronged him.
I had a thought recently. Maybe a way to take the game back to its roots in terms of gameplay would be have a spinoff shift focus onto tyr and his arc of learning to become warrior for peace.
I can picture a timeline where the plot of the Norse Saga was just "Kratos starts a new family. Odin kills them. Kratos goes back to his old self and destroys a new pantheon".
yeah, that would be boring AF.
I don't think God of War necessarily needed the Norse Saga. That Norse story seems like an interesting God of War fan fiction at best, but the gameplay did not need to regress so badly. The combination of gameplay and storytelling is what made the original GOW games so great, and like it or not, this is something that the Norse Saga failed to live up to.
I feel like what I'm gonna say is kind of an ignorant take but not necesarily without merit.
I think people's issue with the game is that it kind of felt like they were throwing the identity of the series trying sooooooooo hard to be like "The Last of Us."
That's not necesarily true but there's enough paralels not to make this comparison.
My dad barely made it through the tutorial before deciding it was dumb and quit.
I feel like it's not make for those looking for pure spectacle no more. It's made for people who are willing to grow with it
Are there seriously people who hate the Norse games? They are genuinely up there with GOW 3 as the best games in the series and some of the best games we’ve gotten in the past decade at least
The Mayo reviewer guy
@@lightdarksoul2097did you even watch the video
I think Ragnarok is a good game not a masterpiece 8/10 tbh and valhalla makes it 9. Ragnarok feels okay but Atreus sections and final bosses are things I think could've been done better.
I dislike gow games
Overly edgy and disrespectful
Somehow it seems liking the Norse games (especially Ragnarok) is an unpopular opinion on the internet
You should search up God of War's alternate ending interview with David Jaffe. There was definitely a way to finish the series, and it was brilliant. There's still time to get something similar because at least we might get to see Kratos in several mythologies which was always an idea.
I think his vision is still on board with some tweaks. I think he said in GOW 3 kratos would meet his counter parts from norse and Egyptian myths and they'll defeat all the gods of their respective mythologies. However now I feel instead of counter parts kratos himself will go to Egypt. I think I'll be fine with GOW franchise ending. Otherwise it'll just be a big mess to continue his story.
@@AaronBiswas God of War won't end as long as the devs within the studio want to keep making more God of War games. And from what Cory barlog and other lead devs said they are fine with being the God of War studio.
@@byte-bg4ob Depends tbh it can grow as a franchise than kratos story alone. Maybe we'll see Atreus games in the same universe as GOW. But Ig they should just have a finale ending for Kratos tbh. Extra writing for him will complicate his whole story a lot. Probably a few more games with him,I like kratos but I fear about bad writing, Ragnarok already shows this.
@@AaronBiswasI thought since the Roman gods were practically the same as the Greeks I’ve been thinking what if they had a Kratos counterpart. Now while Baldur or Freya seems like it they ultimately tried to make Thor the Norse Kratos counterpart just not destroying the Norse gods.
I agree that while i respect Jaffe for creating both GOW & Twisted Metal, lately he seems to be bitter about someone changing his character (for the better might i add). It seems like Jaffe just likes his characters to be hyper violent Psychopaths
I love that intro 😂 I don't agree it's mid, but i sure do that it wasn't necessary. If anything, Ascension makes lore more confusing with all the oaths and stuff, which of course wasn't a thing back when GoW 1 was in development.
00:39 - Okay, i think if even the devs themselves admitted it, it really is objectively not good. Still like it though.
3:12 - True! My thoughts exactly when i first watched that trailer. Like, what is this, is it a reboot? Okay... It's a CONTINUATION?! NO FUCKING WAY! Please let me know more about it 😅
4:40 - Great point. That's why we feel so excited about something like the fight with Heimdall, because things were turned down for a while prior to that. So we can still enjoy what we were enjoying without experiencing a glut. But there's some things where you can go (but not much), like destroying the whole existence of all Gods is one example, but it's better not to waste such ideas until the right moment, like the proper ending of the franchise.
06:58 - I love there's references to his persona in GoW II and GoS. «Death. The Destroyer of Worlds». So good for the character of Kratos at the time.
11:00 - So true, love this scene. Some people say it's kinda out of character for Kratos to talk this way, but come on, it's literally his thoughts voiced. And for me it's believable enough that he thinks that way.
15:47 - Oh, man, there's a lot of people like that sadly. Or at least they're the most loud. Everytime i scroll through comments on GoW posts at the overall gaming community, the majority of people is like: "Yeaaah, the old GoW? That's the REAL GoW. There was gore, and sex, and violence, that's what made it real. And new Kratos just whines all the time, it's so boring, they made him so weak now". Like, BRO. He "whines" at the very first cutscene of the very first GoW game 😂 You sure you know the series enough to make statements about what's real and what's not?
Great video! I think i agree with every word lol. And you pointed out some interesting things, like the fact that Kratos' redemption question is brought up but never still answered, i think because he to himself cannot answer it as well, and that's just a great writing that makes you feel the same as the character you're playing with.
People often forget how the whole situation about GoW felt around 2013. I remember it, but it is easy to forget now, after the success of 2018 and Ragnarök. If any game was close to killing the series, it was Ascension sadly, and not any of the Norse games.
Honestly the only thing I want now from The God of War saga at this (I do agree that The Norse God of War games weee a necessary change of pace. For this franchise by the time we got to God of War 4.) point. Would be a definitive ending for the character of Kratos. Cause technically we had a definitive ending for his story. THREE TIMES! The first one was the ambiguous ending of God of War 2005 when he is sitting on Ares throne. Looking after the soldiers of all future wars. God of War 3’s where he tries to kill himself. Then Valhalla with Kratos fully accepting his past and moving on. Just let his story end already!!!
Maybe I'm a special case but I also like the Norse Saga and I'm happy it is like that now because the series grew with me. I'm a big fan of the God Of War series in general and I've played all the games since I was a kid but TODAY if I saw a game in the "old God Of War" style I wouldn't be interested, while a game like the new God Of War has become in the past years the type of game I like (even though I didn't really like those parts where I was like "Am I watching Guardians of the galaxy or playing a GOW game?")
Ascension gets a lot of unnecessary flak. Not my favorite game, but it was honestly really enjoyable and answered a chunk of questions that I had.
Calling what kratos did to innocence in the past "Caladeral damage." Is crazy work lol
He literally ended the world for a bit
@@lightdarksoul2097 ik but thats not caladeral damage lol that's more ruthless on purpose
“Collateral”
All i know is kratos is god of war. They make atreus main protagonist we riot. We want more god killing in Egypt
Pretty much gow has the appeal of brutally executing evil caricatures of myth gods
Kinda like the the boys or SSKTJL but instead of superheros, its gods
The modern western culture
Just create a bastardization of everything once held as great
@@HadesGamesolosgowverseandkrato can you please play these games or stop sharing your experienceless views?
Dad of War was a great story. But the gameplay was not it. But I get the feelings about it. When a story has reached it's natural conclusion doing this can cause problems. It's the problem you get with shows that go too long. At some point its gone on too long. GoW unlike Jak and Daxter, Sly Cooper, Ratchet and Clank had somewhere to go narratively that didn't need retcons or major personality shifts. I don't think Dad of War with Kratos is/was a necessary game. Because to me the most interesting parts about it aren't the gameplay.
For me at least, I wish they at least kept the specticle fighter gameplay while adding the narrative found in the Norse Duology, but thats down to a gameplay preference
The change was necessary, but the execution kinda sucked. And everything the new games try to do story-wise, the Greek games already did far better. The final boss in ghost of Sparta was easily more emotional than both Norse games, because for the first time you see prime kratos looking out for someone other than himself and worrying for his brother. It shows you the side of kratos that the new games is desperately shoving in your face like it’s the first time anyone’s ever done it. The new games tries so hard to humanize kratos when the psp games and ascension did it first, and better.
It did. I blame the fact that Norse is a little bit overdone. I personally am more of a fan of Greek mythology but i do like Norse, they already did pretty much everything with the greek games aside from a few minor things. The opposite of the Norse games funny enough, I feel them being 2 games was not enough. I'm excited to see them go with a mythology that's not tackled often,. I'm hoping for Egyptian mythology, I think they could do something really cool with it.
They already did egypt in the comics and Kratos had no reason to fight them as they helped him
@@lightdarksoul2097 wasn't aware they made comics.
Norse saga is basically what happens when the final boss is slain and we actually see what the characters do. Not many stories let you continue onwards with someone. In the hands of a lesser company kratos would be a side character and used as the IP to bait people. Here we see how kratos is still relevant and slowly being moved to the back as his story is finding it's conclusion naturally
Only other time I see this happening is tales of the abyss where Luke Fon Fabre goes through so many plot reveals in the prologue when his hair is long. Then he has to live with what he did and make the journey just better in general
Last not playable but nemona in Pokemon where she is already champion and has nothing to do. That's where we come in and basically act like a post game for her to go all out.
Ironically, I feel like they did exactly that. Use GoW to tell a whole other story that Kratos takes a backseat to in the Norse saga, he feels like a guest character. I don't hate the Norse games, but if it wasn't for Kratos I wouldn't have played them. His story ended in 3, we didn't need to see anything after that honestly. He has moments in 2018 with his son, just exists in Ragnarok, Valhalla was what I consider to be a truly Kratos-centric story. Him losing his wife is whatever because it's not like she was killed by Aesir or something, just a convenient Giant-killing sickness. A retread of a sadder story told back in 2005. The character moments in 2018 are good but Ragnarok, man it's Marvel-tier and idk what happened. I get the whole point is "GROWTH: The Game/Last of Us Norse Edition" but it could've been done in a better way, Valhalla is more what I was expecting for the Norse games. I do like the angle of forming a better bond with the kid in 2018, but why would a Kratos who has accomplished his revenge and gave Hope to mankind, be so closed off? Even 3 Kratos had a soft spot for Pandora who he barely met, and his own son he has a "strained" relationship? Anything for the story I guess.
@@Charon569 I agree with you 100 percent on this. It's like it never felt personal to kratos in anything apart from Atreus in Ragnarok. Valhalla was a much better experience where it was more about kratos and less about others. Like sure there was mimir and sigrun arc but it's a side arc not the main one.
"whether you like it or not, something needs to change."
Eh, I liked ascension, and IMO the reboot goes a little too far off .
Also youre talking like the old style of gameplay wouldnt work, but DMC 5 exists you know.
God of War has more games than DMC does and didn’t innovate the gameplay that much at all.
Pretty sure the norse games did better than DMC 65 though
God of War 2018 and ragnarok alone tanks all of the dmc games in terms of sales. Like it or not, the new games made God of War more popular than ever.
Funny how people think the greek era Kratos was too dumb and brute with no layers when its them that are too dumb and brute to notice Kratos was always a deep character from GOW 1 to GOW3.
Kratos saying "but you were always more than that" to himself is Santa Monica talking to that annoying part of the "fans"
Now for another question;"would the game get the same reception with different mythologies"? Seriously, there are many myths that would not only reinvent the franchise, but underutilised!
They need to make another game that is about how Kratos got from Greece to Scandinavia and how he met Fey.
I think the character development was needed, but I wish we could’ve seen more brute force moments where Kratos, while still remaining calm, would absolutely overpower his opponents.
One thing I absolutely dislike about the new games is the combat system. I absolutely hate it and i wish they would’ve implemented a combat system similar to the Arkham series where the camera would zoom out so it would feel similar to the Greek saga games. Having to constantly move around your camera was annoying
Honestly, the Norse Sagas main issue is that it doesnt properly explain how Kratos overcame his demons and learned to allow himself to love (talking in the case of Faye).
It sorta feels like a timeskip we should've gotten after something else (i.e the journey from inbetween sagas).
the are comics and novels for that
@@thabangsibanda3282 released way after the first Norse game, but c'mon, not everyone will know from the get-go and plus games >>> novels all the time.
@@nightowl5332. Sure but you need to remember that god of war is ultimately a video game and should stay that way, not every little thing needs to be explained in the game. Many people complained about iron wood part being a long story rather than gameplay. That's why the are comics and novels to explain some of the lore. No matter what they do they can't please everyone. If you don't want to read the comics or novels, then that's not their problem.
@@thabangsibanda3282 sorry, but how Kratos got to the Norse land and how he got calmer in the first place is FAR FROM LITTLE.
Ironwood is basically an interactive movie in a video GAME, thats why people complained. Too much exposition and a nothing burger gameplay wise
@@nightowl5332 Kratos explained in gow Ragnarok that he got to the norse lands by traveling with a boat. You clearly didn't listen to all the dialogues yet you complaining smh. All mythologies in gow universe exist on the same planet. For example Egypt mythology is in Egypt, Greek mythology is in Greece, japanese mythology is in Japan etc... Kratos travelled by boat to norse lands, he even travelled to Egypt by boat in the comics, the Egyptians even knew he was the ghost of Sparta, like how the norse gods knew he's the ghost of Sparta, coz all mythologies exist in the same planet and interact with one another. Any person from any mythology can travel to a different land(mythology) by boat.
I do agree that, *for the series to continue,* GoW needed the Norse Saga games, though I'd like to argue 2 points:
_1._ Would it be that bad for GoW 3 to be the series conclusion and move on? That game had a great ending, it concluded Kratos' journey pretty well. The 2018 and Ragnarok games taught the player *AGAIN* that random needless violence and revenge are bad and that you shouldn't be numb to other's suffering, but the only possible value in it is seeing *Atreus* learning it, 'cause Kratos already had it by the end of 3.
_2._ I feel like a game was needed to better bridge GoW 3 and 2018's, especially to show Kratos' struggle and learning how to control his rage, to better carry the Greek Saga players from "pure anger Kratos" to "focused calm violence" Kratos. It feels like all these happened offscreen (or in comics, but I ain't hunting down supplementary material) and I feel that robs the long time players from experiencing this growth with the character.
Believing Kratos was a completed character after III is fine and doesn't make you a chuddy incel bigot (I looked at your Twitter). Games aren't a temporary consumable. Six great games that are standouts of their genre can be enjoyed indefinitely. The Norse games were made for a broader modern audience. This is just an objective fact. The style of slasher that the old games were aren't something that casual gamers can easily hop into. DMC5 is living proof of this, as it's more of a cult hit than anything despite its production value, assist mode, and range of difficulty settings. Games like The Last of Us sold systems by the millions. 2018 and Ragnarok were made to emulate that feel and sell PS4s and PS5s to more people first, and carry the series second. It's why they have tons and tons of dialogue, made-for-trailers cinematic moments, RPG elements and menuing, quieter characters that speak with modern casual dialects, the skill tree, and a semi-open world, among too many other factors to list. It's fine for a core fan to take issue with the casualization of the series and point out flaws in the writing, because it's something that was once made for them, now turned into something else for the sake of appealing to as many people as possible. God of War "evolved" into just another story-driven ARPG, like The Witcher was, like Assassin's Creed did, like what The Last of Us was. And now its weird subgenre is out another title. Bayonetta and DMC are on hiatus. There's little development in the indie space. And God of War is now an ARPG
Will every single game become an RPG at some point? Jesus Christ this genre is everywhere.
I love God of war. 2018, but God of war Ragnarok. Aside from a few good moments really let me down like everything to do with Thor adter the first fight was the worst they built him up to be this awesome. character Almost akin to old kratos, but then it turns out he's just an emotional drunk man child Who doesn't really want to kill. Odin forces him to be evil.
I agree. In fact, Trashnarock rendered the 2018 game useless and, therefore, makes the existence of the Norse games pointless.
the worst part of Thor by far is saying "nah he is good, he does evil stuff because of Odin" EMMMM EXCUSE ME this Thor kill an entire race, his mother, almost his son and almost Atreus ¡
but i guess "you can change" speech work on him because of PURE LUCK since he did nothing to change except being sober for 3 years and not punch Thrud
@@Morfe02 Are you agreeing with my take or disagreeing? It's really hard to tell with the way you worded it
@@joshdidgit6398 expand it, the fact Thor has a "Steven Universe moment" out of nowhere because of the writing
the depress, control by Odin is actually good i . . . tested it by a lot of this "parent trauma" since is in all modern fiction if you didnt notice
my problem is saying "ok is a victim" so they justify being a drunk killer BECAUSE OF ODIN THAT DOESNT MAKE SENSE they even implied (in both games) that Thor killed his mother by accident or not and WITHOUT ODIN HAND since the Allfather loved her LMAO
more details i add 🤝🤝
@@Morfe02 it never says his actions are excusable they spend a lot of time talking about how Thor could’ve been greater yet wasn’t and his daughter wants to be what he wasnt if i remember right
The norse saga is a step back in many ways gameplay wise. Shit camera, you can wait for magic to refil and cooldown, you're rewarded the same XP regardless of how good or bad you did in a fight. The Greek saga rewarded smarter play, longer combos and you couldn't hang back and just spam magic and arrows and axe throws. The greek saga is better imo.
What’s wrong with a series ending? Gow should have ended after or before gow ascension
I Liked God of War Ascension. It had some awesome boss fights !
I think my disconnect with the new series partially comes from people who've never played the originals trying to frame them as lacking depth. My 2nd point of contention is that Ragnarok feels so rushed and leaves a lot of plot threads dangling from 2018. It makes Valhalla feel less like a send off and more like a patchwork to complete a journey kratos should have had within the new series.
they will hate on Ubisoft for keeping things the same and not changing but when Santa Monica evolves and changes in a way that doesnt feel like it is cash grab and people still hate it. Honestly I don't know what people want anymore
You gotta understand the point of view Jaffe is coming from. He envisioned God of War as a mix between Clash of The Titans and Heavy Metal (the animated movie and magazine).
I remember that he did an interview a few years ago where he stated that if he did 2018 that he would have kept the emotional and serious parts, but also still included gory and sexual elements from the older games.
I also think that his main issue is with Ragnarok and Valhalla, since I remember in the video where he stated his take that he did say that he liked 2018.
Keep in mind I am not against the modern games. Even though I have my fair share of problems with them, I still ultimately like 2018 and Ragnarok. But I do feel that Jaffe's opinion is understandable.
Dude is pretty ignorant and dumb just looking at the metroid take. I think he's just lost most respect
I think he actually liked Valhalla, i remember some tweet from him about it
Almost everyone here is misinterpreting what Jaffe said. He did say "I don't want these characters to grow" but he clarified that he miscommunicated andd said he meant that the core characteristics that made Kratos himself were removed and that these aren't God of War games. He also stated that Kratos has been written into a corner and that he should be a side character; that Eric Williams was dealt a bad hand when making GoWR.
Luffy from One Piece and Vegeta from Dragonball are 2 examples of characters that went through lots of development but their core personalities are still there.
I think the real problem was that Cory Barlog didn't fully commit to the Norse Saga like he should've been.
@@christophermercer8791 what exactly do you think Vegeta's core personality is as he changed in pretty much every way. He isn't even grumpy anymore he just looks it.
Pride, ego and cockiness. He has changed in every way like you said but he is still as ego driven as before just in a more subdued way.
The first God of War on PS2 is my favorite game of all time but even I recognize rhe character had to mature after a while. I really enjoyed 2018, not as much for ragnarok but 2 solid games that we wouldnt have gotten if they didnt go this new, much needed direction.
Had they not changed the formula, by now we would have a whole bunch of UA-cam vids of “what happened to god of war?” Or “the failure of ascension”. 2018’s game kept it in the conversation
God of war revamp needed to happen for the reasons you mentioned, the Prequel games weren't too much well received and Ascension specially was criticized
GOW 4 truly did something incredible with this story and character and so did the Valhalla DLC. This was always the right choice, although the first GOW game still has the best story out of all of them would love to get the original games on ps5 so I could play through them all the way through again.
The Greek games will always be my favorite. But i can appreciate the Norse games for what they are. Now which one is better is simply up to ones opinion.
THE Norse Saga is my favourite part of the GoW story line. And I grew up with the OG 3 games
Am I crazy or did the bacon in the intro sound... juicier than usual
I've been asking for a GOW Norse Saga since God of War 3.
Yes indeed. Change was necessary. However change isn't always for better. I'll write it simply.
Change of scenery from Greek to Norse? Great idea
Graphical improvement (in technology at least)? Sign me up
Story more focused on Kratos and how he's doing now? Aw hell yeah
Characters? I could listen to them all day
Aureus? Nah
Music? Meh, good at best
Gameplay? Could be cut entirely and my experience with this game would only be better.
Now you can hate me.
I think you mean "atreus".
@arjuna6224 Yeah, it was just a typo.
Yo bro love from India 🇮🇳
It's not like Ascension wasn't innovative. It was the franchise's dip into the multiplayer craze back in the early 2010s, and when compared to something like Call of Duty, Ascension's Multiplayer was ambitious, and it worked.
Absolutely fantastic objective take. Why I really like listening to your passion interest videos, you keep them to the point and make fantastic points.
I love the progression of Kratos through the Norse games and so many people generalise or don't look deep enough into the games (Both old and new).
objective? his take is biased as fk, maybe learn the meaning of the word ''objective''
How can i contact sony and/or santa monica?
I think Ascension would've been a bit better received on the Vita. Less expectations on it.
Dmc5 has great gameplay and great story
Honestly the story for the new games is good but I prefer the gameplay of the old school spectical fighters its why I like the Ghost rider video game so much. my dream version would be two new games with the Norse story but the old gameplay. but thats just me
Great video 👍🏼
It's not just gaming but journalism as a whole is the problem. People think that modern Godzilla and Batman movies are complete shit and shouldn't have existed(though some of these claims I do agree with), but having the same character or plot that has been used is so linear and boring to watch. This is why Godzilla Minus One worked so well due to the re-contextualisation of its character(from the original 1954 film) and how it affected the general plot and its characters. But some people say that the movie sucks and it doesn't feel like a Godzilla movie even though the themes of the film are not even the same and is trying to express a different idea.
Ascension was great, necessary? not rly..
totally agree with your attitude as well..
This feels like it’s directed at No Bullsh*t
Would make WAY more sense if the bacon was finished cooking at the end of the video. 🥓
like it or not, 2018 has a better writing than the last game
in fact is stupid to say that title when is obvious that GOW Ascension failed as a secuel-precuel game and some other games like Space Marines 2 (with similar gameplay as old games) are making records than i dont know another Sony game TLOU 2 or Horizon Zero dawn
oh and i forgot Black Myth Wukong did what Gow Ragnarok cant do it with billions: making a fight with giants and making a fight against yourself LMAAAAAAAAAAAO