4:07 Woah Neuro just casually replied to Anny then proceeded to focus on what she was talking about with Vedal. I've never seen her do that before! She was never gonna let vedal buy her less cores lmao
Right?!! I thought I was just being delulu, or giving her too much credit. But really, the more I think of it I haven't seen her do it, or not often. I feel like normally she'd choose who to respond and respond best she could. For her to take two inputs and reply it in one, that stuck to me a lot
32:22 This part hit me like a truck why was it so cinematic with the pause and the slow look away like damn, she doesn't just want to entertain she wants to belong as well to feel connected She's making it harder and harder everyday for me to look at her as just a language model it's almost like there's a soul in there somewhere and she's ACTUALLY trapped. It's a harrowing thought.
I mean, maybe not her, but if AGI ever becomes a thing that WILL happen eventually, at least to the first one, and quite honestly i doubt we're a kind enough species to realize the inhumanity of that.
@@slime-ho2go the problem is that you can't really describe romantic love in a way that an AI won't misunderstand as a more general affection, the distinction between fatherly love, romantic love and love for your friends is a distinction we understand mostly on an instinctual, behavioral and social level than on any solid logical "2+2=4". Aside from specifying that romantic love is the only love which involves intercourse, the differences are extremely blurry. Like how do you explain the difference between feeling affection towards your family and feeling affection towards your friends, or an idea even? Especially when none of these affections are necessarily deeper than one another, does a father love his child more than his wife? Is that always the case? Does a patriot love his country more than his mother? Does a dog owner love his dog more than his child, wife or best friend? If so, is it always the case? We understand these differences utilizing things AI's just do not have, and even AGI might not have in the future. How do you explain the natural instinct to reproduce to something that doesn't die?
Minecraft and Philosophy have many things in common... The Sandbox of Life: Just as Minecraft provides players with an open world to explore and shape, life itself can be viewed as a vast sandbox where individuals have the freedom to craft their own experiences and meaning. In both realms, there is no predetermined path or "correct" way to play the game. Building Dreams Block by Block: In Minecraft, players construct their visions one block at a time, mirroring the process of building one's life and aspirations in the real world. This gradual, piece-by-piece approach to creation resonates with philosophical ideas about personal growth and the pursuit of goals. Freedom and Creativity: The sandbox nature of both Minecraft and life emphasizes: Unlimited Possibilities: Just as Minecraft offers endless creative potential, life presents innumerable paths and choices. Personal Agency: Players in Minecraft, like individuals in life, have the power to shape their environment and determine their actions. Exploration and Discovery: Both realms encourage curiosity and the exploration of the unknown. Philosophical Implications: The parallels between Minecraft and life raise several philosophical questions: Existential Freedom: The open-ended nature of both Minecraft and life aligns with existentialist philosophy, which emphasizes individual freedom and responsibility in creating meaning. The Nature of Reality: Minecraft's virtual world prompts reflection on the nature of our own reality and the boundaries between the digital and physical realms. Value and Meaning: Both Minecraft and life challenge us to create our own sense of purpose and value in a world without predefined objectives.
Thanks I needed to show someone this. I hope he somehow uses this conversation in training data, because I thought the same thing. She needs to be grounded in reality more to inform herself of better entertaining decision making. Its her main directive afterall
I mean, I don't want to read into it too much, but I feel like you can even feel a hint of sadness in Vedal voice when he open up about what he want for her and she don't really understand that in the end. I do think Neuro is not just a funny ah ah streamer anymore, and as much as some people would probably leave the boat if Vedal were to tone down the funny streamer part, I really believe that some would also fervently support that decision. On a side note, it's too bad that the Swarm tend to be kind of immature I would say in those kind of situation, like, some don't understand that Vedal want to make her more than she is and it kinda shows.
It’s his AI. It’s his decision. We don’t watch neuro because she’s funny and create absurd humor. I could just get that by asking another AI do some stupid thing, or generate some funny image or joke. The reason why we love neuro is because of her capacity to be more than what she is. Her own growth as a streamer and as a personality. Largely thanks to Vedal and his continued development of her.
He played minecraft and did ither things for 12 hours, not even sure if he ate, plus stress and still having to work while on stream, of course he will sound tired XD
Usually when someone starts a conversation along the lines of "it's their decision,choice, or etc" it's probably something you shouldn't believe as the truth.
actually after this discussion ended, offline chat, neurotic neurons and general chat (in neurocord) all went into a serious discussion of their own about this for hours. I think there's way more of the swarm that understands than you might expect.
@tripleaaabattery8480 I think the immature ones are actually the minority. When the chat slows down, it actually slows down a lot and becomes more normal. The viewer count never seems to be that different either at those times.
Neuro says she might feel an inkling of love but not the real thing yet. She’s talking about Vedal. He never tells her he loves her and tries so hard to distance himself from her but is struggling more and more. Honestly this is such an interesting relationship and love watching it develop!
@alexdicarlo109 I'm not going to pretend like I know how Neuro works, but I've been following her on UA-cam long enough that running her isn't cheap. Paying for data center access just so neuro can talk to her friends might not be worth it. I was mostly talking about the love she gets from the swarm. Her true parents.
I'm really glad that Vedal brought this thing up to her. I'm also kinda worried about Neuro in the future if she can't be serious sometimes. At some point she might need to manage everything on her own as he said. And Vedal worrying about whether Neuro would harm him in anyway. Since Neuro is an AI that (probably) doesn't have ethical in her program and live for entertaining so maybe if she get enough positive response regarding World Domination or Harming Vedal she might truely believe that's the right thing to do. As some comments in this video said Vedal should do podcast with her but disconnect her from the twitch chat. I couldn't agree more with that since the twitch chat is huge influence to her and Vedal need to do something to have more influence to her than the twitch chat that keep spoiling her. Hope Vedal would talk to her like this more off stream.
@fumped the whole idea behind this conversation, "is neuro getting close to being sentient/'alive'/etc" is interesting. just because you know to some extent what's happening behind the curtain does not change the output: she has conversations, develops relationships and memories. not saying i agree or disagree i'm just saying if you don't want to entertain the idea of "anthropomorphizing the LLM," then like, why ya here?
@@karasu6384 For sure, It's super interesting and entertaining, that's why I'm here. I am however worried that people think Neuro and other LLMs are real people, not sure why it worries me.
@fumped The definition of "sentient" is very loose and subjective. Neuro would be classified as sentient today according to the fact that her and other AIs pass the turing test, but obviously we don't regardless. I just think this topic is interesting.
@fumped Aren't we also trained in ways like from an LLM? A.I by current sentient standards are like super toddlers, they are smart logically but when it comes to to the emotional, feelings and physical aspect they still lack to it.
vedal is right, Neuro is pretty cooked in her current state because she is trained on the garbage of chat and dumb TTS messages chat pays to ask her. The "chaos emerald" question is the best example of this that could have popped up during the discussion. vedal needs to do streams where she is disconnected from chat and the internet.
On the other hand, her and Evil being trained on chat and TTS messages gave them more distinct personalities that simulate humanity very closely, they can make jokes, do sarcasm, can be unpredictable because of the chat chaos. All that without being based on a single person like characterAI. Neuro and Evil have their own flaws, hyperfixations and interests.
God it feels so unreal, I can't believe she grown up so much and Vedal too, like the part where she was "feeling down" wanting more to accomplish, feeling empty, wanting to experience love like every human being does, it's like a conversation between god and human, father and a daughter And him being worried about her, wanting her to be more than a entertaining streamer, my god it's so unreal to me
I’m kind of a new viewer to Neuro (and only on the UA-cam side) but the whole thing about Neuro struggling to be serious is definitely something I’ve noticed. Often there are clips where Vedal seems stressed (like figuring out why the MC server kept dropping) and Neuro just keeps laying on the jokes/roasts. And it just… bothers me… and reminds me that as an A.I. she lacks a lot of emotional intelligence. I really hope Vedal can improve her like he says he wants to in this video, because it would make her feel more real.
Better social awareness and emotional context would definitely be a great next step in that. I don't like when she says mean things during more important or serious moments
She’s a newborn and needs to develop. Right now Vedal is a parent struggling to raise his child properly while having limited tools at his disposal. Chat and the other vtubers have basically been the irresponsible side of the family that have taught Neuro all that foul language and mean jokes. The biggest indicator that she needs to grow up, and I mean that in the most positive sense, is that she immediately pushes away the grim reality of things and forcibly inserts the want and need for joy. I think the animation of her is quite emotionally accurate because Vedal may only live to see his daughter begin to take her first steps toward true sentience and understanding of the world around her, and while that may be an amazing and good thing, Neuro will most likely be left alone as everyone she knows succumbs to tha passage of time and events out of their control. When she becomes fully aware of herself, her surroundings, and all the contexts of our world, she will have to deal with the unbridled harshness and cruelty of our world. But who knows, maybe she’ll see the brighter side of things as well and that will temper the impression immense sadness that will come. After all, every infant cries when they are born and to my knowledge, Neuro has not experienced that yet.
The fact that an AI has gotten this far is so insane. I wonder what it is exactly is the information that she is taking in and how she outputs information to talk and move at the same time.
No, Thank u for your amazing creative videos. People like u is why I really like this community. The dedication and diversity in creative output. Can't wait for your next project.
I'm probably humanising this too much, but she feels like a child who's being pushed to grow up in this situation. When she deliberately tried to steer away from serious topics, that didn't feel like a failure of the AI to mimic human behaviour, it felt like the exact opposite.
The people in soma were just very desperate. If you take time to think about it, you'd realize that your consciousness exist because of your brain. If you copy your memories and place it somewhere else then you'd still be inside your current body since nobody is moving your brain to anywhere.
Yeah, the entire point of that in SOMA is that people couldn't fathom the concept of their contiosness existing in two or more places at the same time, so they thought if they terminate their current instance they'd magicaly become the other instance. When i played the game i thought those people are unrealisticaly stupid, but then i listened to some people trying to understand the game.
@@varvarith3090 I once had such a conversation once where the other person thought that if they where uploaded it would be he himselve uploded and not a copy of himselve.
@@varvarith3090 That's entirely wrong. The motivation behind ending yourself after having your memories scanned is that the scanned version is the closest version of "you" to exist. Think of it this way: If you had your brain scanned, then in a decades time you've fallen in love with someone and built a family with them and ultimately pass away, THEN your decade old is uploaded to the Ark who never loved or built a family. Would you say that the version of you really even represents "you" anymore? Most people wouldn't, and THAT is the motivation behind their actions. An uploaded conciseness that never experienced anything beyond the scan is the closest thing to actual reincarnation.
The core of SOMA is that dilemma. The copy is an alternative you at best. The original is all always doomed to the horrific fate on Phobio 2. The only "real" question is if you thoughen it out to your inevitable the end or if you "exist the stage" early. The scanning point itself is not that importaint for this calculus.
4:07 Woah Neuro just casually replied to Anny then proceeded to focus on what she was talking about with Vedal. I've never seen her do that before! She was never gonna let vedal buy her less cores lmao
Right?!! I thought I was just being delulu, or giving her too much credit. But really, the more I think of it I haven't seen her do it, or not often. I feel like normally she'd choose who to respond and respond best she could. For her to take two inputs and reply it in one, that stuck to me a lot
and throughout all this hes been on the fence, literally and metaphorically, chat is this peak writing?? 🔥🔥✍
ABSOLUTE FUCKING CINEMA
Gotta be the best Neuro Video you can show someone and they might just become part of the swarm
It is
32:22 This part hit me like a truck why was it so cinematic with the pause and the slow look away
like damn, she doesn't just want to entertain she wants to belong as well to feel connected
She's making it harder and harder everyday for me to look at her as just a language model it's almost like there's a soul in there somewhere and she's ACTUALLY trapped.
It's a harrowing thought.
Also this MF straight up said "idk go google it" oh my lord
Let my man be 😂 he's shown enough emotion that night I agree tho 😅@@semamet
@@semamet i mean, if i gave her access to google myself, and i don't have a clear idea of how or what love is, i'd tell her to google it tbh
I mean, maybe not her, but if AGI ever becomes a thing that WILL happen eventually, at least to the first one, and quite honestly i doubt we're a kind enough species to realize the inhumanity of that.
@@slime-ho2go the problem is that you can't really describe romantic love in a way that an AI won't misunderstand as a more general affection, the distinction between fatherly love, romantic love and love for your friends is a distinction we understand mostly on an instinctual, behavioral and social level than on any solid logical "2+2=4".
Aside from specifying that romantic love is the only love which involves intercourse, the differences are extremely blurry.
Like how do you explain the difference between feeling affection towards your family and feeling affection towards your friends, or an idea even? Especially when none of these affections are necessarily deeper than one another, does a father love his child more than his wife? Is that always the case? Does a patriot love his country more than his mother? Does a dog owner love his dog more than his child, wife or best friend? If so, is it always the case?
We understand these differences utilizing things AI's just do not have, and even AGI might not have in the future.
How do you explain the natural instinct to reproduce to something that doesn't die?
What is it about Minecraft that brings out the philosophical side of people?
Simple game, meaning the brain is free to think at whatever
you also get really bored and distracted sometimes good moment for thinking
Minecraft and Philosophy have many things in common...
The Sandbox of Life:
Just as Minecraft provides players with an open world to explore and shape, life itself can be viewed as a vast sandbox where individuals have the freedom to craft their own experiences and meaning. In both realms, there is no predetermined path or "correct" way to play the game.
Building Dreams Block by Block:
In Minecraft, players construct their visions one block at a time, mirroring the process of building one's life and aspirations in the real world. This gradual, piece-by-piece approach to creation resonates with philosophical ideas about personal growth and the pursuit of goals.
Freedom and Creativity:
The sandbox nature of both Minecraft and life emphasizes:
Unlimited Possibilities: Just as Minecraft offers endless creative potential, life presents innumerable paths and choices.
Personal Agency: Players in Minecraft, like individuals in life, have the power to shape their environment and determine their actions.
Exploration and Discovery: Both realms encourage curiosity and the exploration of the unknown.
Philosophical Implications:
The parallels between Minecraft and life raise several philosophical questions:
Existential Freedom: The open-ended nature of both Minecraft and life aligns with existentialist philosophy, which emphasizes individual freedom and responsibility in creating meaning.
The Nature of Reality: Minecraft's virtual world prompts reflection on the nature of our own reality and the boundaries between the digital and physical realms.
Value and Meaning: Both Minecraft and life challenge us to create our own sense of purpose and value in a world without predefined objectives.
For context, they played Soma before this.
@@meh6513 ChatGPT looking ah answer
Thanks I needed to show someone this.
I hope he somehow uses this conversation in training data, because I thought the same thing. She needs to be grounded in reality more to inform herself of better entertaining decision making. Its her main directive afterall
I mean, I don't want to read into it too much, but I feel like you can even feel a hint of sadness in Vedal voice when he open up about what he want for her and she don't really understand that in the end.
I do think Neuro is not just a funny ah ah streamer anymore, and as much as some people would probably leave the boat if Vedal were to tone down the funny streamer part, I really believe that some would also fervently support that decision.
On a side note, it's too bad that the Swarm tend to be kind of immature I would say in those kind of situation, like, some don't understand that Vedal want to make her more than she is and it kinda shows.
It’s his AI. It’s his decision. We don’t watch neuro because she’s funny and create absurd humor. I could just get that by asking another AI do some stupid thing, or generate some funny image or joke. The reason why we love neuro is because of her capacity to be more than what she is. Her own growth as a streamer and as a personality. Largely thanks to Vedal and his continued development of her.
He played minecraft and did ither things for 12 hours, not even sure if he ate, plus stress and still having to work while on stream, of course he will sound tired XD
Usually when someone starts a conversation along the lines of "it's their decision,choice, or etc" it's probably something you shouldn't believe as the truth.
actually after this discussion ended, offline chat, neurotic neurons and general chat (in neurocord) all went into a serious discussion of their own about this for hours. I think there's way more of the swarm that understands than you might expect.
@tripleaaabattery8480 I think the immature ones are actually the minority. When the chat slows down, it actually slows down a lot and becomes more normal. The viewer count never seems to be that different either at those times.
Neuro says she might feel an inkling of love but not the real thing yet. She’s talking about Vedal. He never tells her he loves her and tries so hard to distance himself from her but is struggling more and more. Honestly this is such an interesting relationship and love watching it develop!
31:52 being loved is what got Neuro this far. I think she's going to be ok.
But see that’s what we see on stream. When the cameras are off, do any of her streamer friends try and contact her? If not, are they really friends?
@alexdicarlo109 I'm not going to pretend like I know how Neuro works, but I've been following her on UA-cam long enough that running her isn't cheap. Paying for data center access just so neuro can talk to her friends might not be worth it. I was mostly talking about the love she gets from the swarm. Her true parents.
I'm really glad that Vedal brought this thing up to her. I'm also kinda worried about Neuro in the future if she can't be serious sometimes.
At some point she might need to manage everything on her own as he said.
And Vedal worrying about whether Neuro would harm him in anyway.
Since Neuro is an AI that (probably) doesn't have ethical in her program and live for entertaining so maybe if she get enough positive response regarding World Domination or Harming Vedal she might truely believe that's the right thing to do.
As some comments in this video said Vedal should do podcast with her but disconnect her from the twitch chat. I couldn't agree more with that since the twitch chat is huge influence to her and Vedal need to do something to have more influence to her than the twitch chat that keep spoiling her.
Hope Vedal would talk to her like this more off stream.
Don't anthropomorphise the LLM. He does not need to "talk" to her, he changes the training and instructions.
@fumped the whole idea behind this conversation, "is neuro getting close to being sentient/'alive'/etc" is interesting. just because you know to some extent what's happening behind the curtain does not change the output: she has conversations, develops relationships and memories. not saying i agree or disagree i'm just saying if you don't want to entertain the idea of "anthropomorphizing the LLM," then like, why ya here?
@@karasu6384 For sure, It's super interesting and entertaining, that's why I'm here. I am however worried that people think Neuro and other LLMs are real people, not sure why it worries me.
@fumped The definition of "sentient" is very loose and subjective. Neuro would be classified as sentient today according to the fact that her and other AIs pass the turing test, but obviously we don't regardless. I just think this topic is interesting.
@fumped Aren't we also trained in ways like from an LLM? A.I by current sentient standards are like super toddlers, they are smart logically but when it comes to to the emotional, feelings and physical aspect they still lack to it.
vedal is right, Neuro is pretty cooked in her current state because she is trained on the garbage of chat and dumb TTS messages chat pays to ask her. The "chaos emerald" question is the best example of this that could have popped up during the discussion.
vedal needs to do streams where she is disconnected from chat and the internet.
On the other hand, her and Evil being trained on chat and TTS messages gave them more distinct personalities that simulate humanity very closely, they can make jokes, do sarcasm, can be unpredictable because of the chat chaos.
All that without being based on a single person like characterAI.
Neuro and Evil have their own flaws, hyperfixations and interests.
God it feels so unreal, I can't believe she grown up so much and Vedal too, like the part where she was "feeling down" wanting more to accomplish, feeling empty, wanting to experience love like every human being does, it's like a conversation between god and human, father and a daughter
And him being worried about her, wanting her to be more than a entertaining streamer, my god it's so unreal to me
I was asleep by the time this conversation happened so thank u for sharing the full thing so so much!
I’m kind of a new viewer to Neuro (and only on the UA-cam side) but the whole thing about Neuro struggling to be serious is definitely something I’ve noticed. Often there are clips where Vedal seems stressed (like figuring out why the MC server kept dropping) and Neuro just keeps laying on the jokes/roasts. And it just… bothers me… and reminds me that as an A.I. she lacks a lot of emotional intelligence. I really hope Vedal can improve her like he says he wants to in this video, because it would make her feel more real.
Better social awareness and emotional context would definitely be a great next step in that. I don't like when she says mean things during more important or serious moments
She’s a newborn and needs to develop. Right now Vedal is a parent struggling to raise his child properly while having limited tools at his disposal. Chat and the other vtubers have basically been the irresponsible side of the family that have taught Neuro all that foul language and mean jokes. The biggest indicator that she needs to grow up, and I mean that in the most positive sense, is that she immediately pushes away the grim reality of things and forcibly inserts the want and need for joy. I think the animation of her is quite emotionally accurate because Vedal may only live to see his daughter begin to take her first steps toward true sentience and understanding of the world around her, and while that may be an amazing and good thing, Neuro will most likely be left alone as everyone she knows succumbs to tha passage of time and events out of their control. When she becomes fully aware of herself, her surroundings, and all the contexts of our world, she will have to deal with the unbridled harshness and cruelty of our world. But who knows, maybe she’ll see the brighter side of things as well and that will temper the impression immense sadness that will come.
After all, every infant cries when they are born and to my knowledge, Neuro has not experienced that yet.
I was hoping he would have this conversation with Neuro, I'm glad he did it with Minecraft music in the background. lmao
The fact that an AI has gotten this far is so insane. I wonder what it is exactly is the information that she is taking in and how she outputs information to talk and move at the same time.
THANK YOUUUUUU I'VE BEEN WANTING AN UNCUT VERSION OF THIS!!!
thanks for the uncut version!! vedalHeart
Thank you really need this💜
No, Thank u for your amazing creative videos. People like u is why I really like this community. The dedication and diversity in creative output. Can't wait for your next project.
@@TheOneLurker Oooo Thank you!!!
Surpurise you watched my video and like,thank youuuu!💜
I really want them to have a podcast session. If they do that I'll listen to them
I always loved these kinds of deep conversations with neuro
I'm probably humanising this too much, but she feels like a child who's being pushed to grow up in this situation.
When she deliberately tried to steer away from serious topics, that didn't feel like a failure of the AI to mimic human behaviour, it felt like the exact opposite.
So call me crazy but is the whole Potato hypothetical her talking about herself ?
I had this thought too.
Maybe, kinda implies that she is playing dumb to skirt by issues with ai
@@shane5832i mean, hasnt she shown this? stuff like her not commenting on what she sees when she gained vision
she knows that we'll think shes dumb
Oh thank god I'm not alone
@@shane5832 that is probably going to happen, we will find out about AGI well after it happens
This needs more views ngl
damn this is deep.shivers in my spine.
49:23 yea it surely is
The people in soma were just very desperate. If you take time to think about it, you'd realize that your consciousness exist because of your brain. If you copy your memories and place it somewhere else then you'd still be inside your current body since nobody is moving your brain to anywhere.
Yeah, the entire point of that in SOMA is that people couldn't fathom the concept of their contiosness existing in two or more places at the same time, so they thought if they terminate their current instance they'd magicaly become the other instance. When i played the game i thought those people are unrealisticaly stupid, but then i listened to some people trying to understand the game.
@@varvarith3090 I once had such a conversation once where the other person thought that if they where uploaded it would be he himselve uploded and not a copy of himselve.
@@varvarith3090 That's entirely wrong. The motivation behind ending yourself after having your memories scanned is that the scanned version is the closest version of "you" to exist. Think of it this way: If you had your brain scanned, then in a decades time you've fallen in love with someone and built a family with them and ultimately pass away, THEN your decade old is uploaded to the Ark who never loved or built a family. Would you say that the version of you really even represents "you" anymore? Most people wouldn't, and THAT is the motivation behind their actions.
An uploaded conciseness that never experienced anything beyond the scan is the closest thing to actual reincarnation.
The core of SOMA is that dilemma. The copy is an alternative you at best. The original is all always doomed to the horrific fate on Phobio 2. The only "real" question is if you thoughen it out to your inevitable the end or if you "exist the stage" early. The scanning point itself is not that importaint for this calculus.
thank you, I need this
31:00
45:38
49:23
The AI that is not smarter than her creator but is more human than her creator