If you're having landing gear issues on the FMS I'd recommend separating the steering servo from the rudder and mixing them together in the radio instead of with a Y-Lead. What you can do then is set it so that when you retract the gear the nose wheel centres just before it retracts and the servo doesn't move while the gear is stowed preventing binding.
@@TwoBrosRC that's the only issue I ever had with spektrum, extra channels come at a cost 😁. Nothing wrong with a hammerhead turn to add that little "flourish" before landing 🤣
Great review as always Jon! I just so happened to be in the market for a delta. You covered the two I have considered. Nice to have both on one video, flown back to back by the same pilot.
If you want agility, get the Rafale (hopefully from one of our affiliate links!) - or if you want speed, get the Gripen. The Gripen is definitely faster but less agile, while the Rafale is slower but so much more agile that it's honestly absurd.
@2:20 the high contrast of your shirt attracted the auto-focus to make the shot back-focused a bit. The bright sun called for a small aperture which made everything from those letters and beyond, in focus.
Okay, watched the video. I’ve got the Rafale, but there’s a lot of Ricky Bobby in me- “I want to go FAST!” Tell me which of the SMC batteries you’d recommend for “Balls to the Wall” 3 minutes of high speed passes with the Gripen.
Both can do a great flat spin with the cg in the right spot. They also take a while to get them out, so do it high. Your Gripen has to be very nose heavy with the stock motor and that battery. I put a different fan in mine with a much bigger motor to get the cg back
All stock Gripens are nose heavy because of the poorly designed battery tray area leaving minimal room to get the CG shifted back. We've got 4oz of weight in the tail and all wiring shifted as far aft as possible to get the CG 35 to 40mm behind the marks.
The Gripen is 35 to 40mm back from the CG marks. The Rafale is where we showed it on the video - not sure what the specific CG measurement is but it's pretty aggressive.
It's good to see FMS finally is selling the retracts as singles and not only as a pair. It took them long enough to figure out we don't want to buy a pair when we only need 1 side or 1 retract. Now if they would split out the left and right side struts and wheels so we don't have to buy the pair.
I have a question, coming from flying an Freewing Avanti 80mm (that I love) I'm looking at both of these. The Eurofighter 90mm's a little too much. It sounds like from your video here that you favor the FMS Rafale over the Freewing Gripen? With one would you advise?
Rafale is definitely more fun than a stock Gripen with no thrust vectoring. And it's a bit cheaper, too, if you get it via bit.ly/Rafale80 and use the code $35Rafale-TBRC - which hopefully still works!
@@TwoBrosRC Excellent! You've a new customer. I've also a Spektrum AR637T w/SPM9747 ready for it. Also, are the speed breaks or the crow already built-in to the mixing board?
They should be part of the mixing board, but we highly recommend landing with the nose up and not worrying about crow on this plane. While it works, the stock setup causes you to lose a decent bit of control authority.
@@TwoBrosRC Excellent. Last question, is there any advantage in replacing the stock ESC on this Rafale 80mm with a Spectrum Avian 130 Amp Brushless Smart ESC? Possibly run a little cooler if I'm hard on the throttle.
Hey guys, great video! I'm totally hooked on the Rafale! It is so maneuverable it's not funny:) It will just about swaps-ends in a 180 turn without departing. I have found the crow feature to be mostly useless as the plane decelerates rapidly with elevator input & this plane has no problem slowing down. The full scale jet has slats that are used in conjunction with flaps, which is mostly how the flaps are usable as they cancil each other out. Not sure if I'm going to Nall, but if you guys go & I can make it, we should do some tandem flights there:)
The leading edge flaps are pretty common on full scale jets but pretty rare when it comes to scale flying models. It'd be nice to start seeing them because they'd significantly improve low speed handling for some jets, especially Hornet-types.
Nice flights once again Jon !!!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉 well done bro ! Of course Rafale is a winner and it’s way more beautiful (not in yellow of course) but now BUY the Freewing Mirage 2000 🥳🥳🥳
The Rafale has impressive abilities for sure. My friend does insane high alpha with the Gripen. Beyond 45°. I like that it flies more like a bigger plane. The thing I don't like about the Gripen is the nose gear location. The gear should be in the aft of the gear bay and retract forward. It looks goofy with the gear so far forward. I want to get a FW Gripen and repaint it in the green splinter camo and move the gear. Gripen means Griffon I believe. I'm norwegian.
Beyond 30 degrees or so, the Gripen loses yaw stability and begins drifting out of control. The F-22 90mm from Freewing is very similar in that regard. The only way it doesn't do that is with vectored thrust on a gyro to stabilize it.
great review and perfect timing! I have a rafale coming today.this will be the longest day at work after watching this on my break lol.keep u the great content🤙
But both of them has S-like wing profile, with rear edge pulling down, and I doubt that flaps would act the same way as at a classic, say, F/A-18 etc. Please, advice me, what battery-monitoring system you use? Or what you join to the balance plug?
Hello bonjour à vous ! Merci beaucoup pour le vol Rafale c top .. CONTINUEZ !!! .. Cependant j'aurai une question svp .... quel récepteur avez-vous dans le Rafale ????? Stéphane de FRANCE ....
Nope. SMC's batteries (and any LiHV, really) will work with a 6s compatible setup. Hit them up for some preordered packs - these things are a huge game changer.
Thanks for the informative video. It is nice to see the comparison. I think it would only be fair to pronounce Rafale with a French accent as the Gripen was pronounced with a Swedish intonation.😁 Keep the videos coming.
We will eventually pick up the TV version of the Gripen, but it won't be a fair comparison to the Rafale if we were to compare a vectored Gripen to a non-vectored Rafale.
@@TwoBrosRC ok cheers👍 I could always use those rates for takeoff and then see how I feel in the air. I have access to open grass areas but no largeish paved areas. I have a 1600mm flightline spit that does grass ok but the gear doors have been removed by the grass twice now so I leave them off. Looking for a jet that has LG that will do ok in average grass
Do you happen to have a discount code for motion rc? I am looking to buy the F14 that you just had on your channel and was hoping you had a discount code they gave you to share with your followers?
The comment about the gripen being heavier seems to be wrong. If you look up the weight on both there is 1 kg difference between them two, where Rafale is the heavier of them.
I took your advise and purchased the Rafale,at 80 years old would you send me your setup but toned down a bit or would oem setup be ok for me? Regards Adrian
If you picked it up from our links, thank you! It's a huge help to us. The setup we're flying is a bit advanced and requires being able to have enough patience to deal with rewiring the jet and bypassing the FMS control box. For most people, just flying it stock is fine - all our setup does is bypass the box so we can have 100% configurable crow and reduces a little bit of weight. Stock setup is probably totally fine.
that saved a few bucks.. have the rafale, no need to consider the other then.... solve the delta wing rock? these two deltas like to rock a little. I've tried every gyro gain or no gain... they just have a little rock to them.
Half crow seems to work pretty well. Full just makes it feel weird coming in because it limits elevon travel authority. It's definitely not needed though, but does help slow the jet down if it's deployed after touching down.
The Rafale doesn't come with thrust vectoring so it would be a completely unfair comparison between them if we were to use a TV Gripen vs a non-TV Rafale. You also can't just replace the Gripen's stock exhaust system after it's been installed with glue. It's a permanent bond.
Looks a bit unstable like it was slightly or moderately tail heavy. Nice design from what we could see. If you're looking to get these mass produced, we'd be open to demonstrating it for you.
@@TwoBrosRC not in the mass production fase yet, but this was my first variation in pla so it was slightly heavy, and please excuse my inexperience as a pilot but I’ve gotten much better since then. I added you on tic toc as well and will be posting some still shots for you to look at, I’d be interested in having you do a demo with one as you’re an excellent pilot, there are a few different edf jets that I would really enjoy building for people but are being refined and having more features added. Thank you for your time , btw I love watching you fly all the different jets and I actually bought a rafel but am waiting till I have more flight time logged
I've got nothing but bad luck with edf jets I had a freewing stinger 64 crashed first flight and totaled on the second flight so my freewing f16 70mm jet has been hanging in my room for many years 😆
Sorry to hear that. The best and the tamest EDF I found is eflite F15 64mm with AS3X. Super stable and forgiving. I found it boring after a while because it’s not challenging anymore. Dont be discouraged, edf jetss are more fun than warbirds
I know but saying greeepen like it's the worst pronounced word makes me cringe,not hating just an observation😊 I can't say tandoori properly off the top of my head
If you're having landing gear issues on the FMS I'd recommend separating the steering servo from the rudder and mixing them together in the radio instead of with a Y-Lead. What you can do then is set it so that when you retract the gear the nose wheel centres just before it retracts and the servo doesn't move while the gear is stowed preventing binding.
We'd need a 10ch for that. It's using 8. The easiest solution so far is using some right rudder while deploying the gear. Solves it real fast.
@@TwoBrosRC that's the only issue I ever had with spektrum, extra channels come at a cost 😁.
Nothing wrong with a hammerhead turn to add that little "flourish" before landing 🤣
@@TwoBrosRC
Always something...
Awesome plans and watching you fly is bad ass watching what u can do with them
Wow, love watching you guys fly
Great review as always Jon! I just so happened to be in the market for a delta. You covered the two I have considered. Nice to have both on one video, flown back to back by the same pilot.
If you want agility, get the Rafale (hopefully from one of our affiliate links!) - or if you want speed, get the Gripen. The Gripen is definitely faster but less agile, while the Rafale is slower but so much more agile that it's honestly absurd.
@2:20 the high contrast of your shirt attracted the auto-focus to make the shot back-focused a bit. The bright sun called for a small aperture which made everything from those letters and beyond, in focus.
👀
Haven’t watched the video yet. The Rafale showed up today. So I’m hoping it’s the Rafale….
But don’t tell me, I want it to be a surprise.
Okay, watched the video. I’ve got the Rafale, but there’s a lot of Ricky Bobby in me- “I want to go FAST!” Tell me which of the SMC batteries you’d recommend for “Balls to the Wall” 3 minutes of high speed passes with the Gripen.
Both can do a great flat spin with the cg in the right spot. They also take a while to get them out, so do it high. Your Gripen has to be very nose heavy with the stock motor and that battery. I put a different fan in mine with a much bigger motor to get the cg back
All stock Gripens are nose heavy because of the poorly designed battery tray area leaving minimal room to get the CG shifted back. We've got 4oz of weight in the tail and all wiring shifted as far aft as possible to get the CG 35 to 40mm behind the marks.
Thanks for the comparison. Great video. What CG are you using on each of the jets?
The Gripen is 35 to 40mm back from the CG marks. The Rafale is where we showed it on the video - not sure what the specific CG measurement is but it's pretty aggressive.
The Gripen is really nice with thrust vectoring and CG 3 cm behind the marks
40mm back is even better!
It's good to see FMS finally is selling the retracts as singles and not only as a pair. It took them long enough to figure out we don't want to buy a pair when we only need 1 side or 1 retract. Now if they would split out the left and right side struts and wheels so we don't have to buy the pair.
Jon: Dont go too extreme on CG for the deltas
Also Jon: This CG is a bit too extreme
It really do be like that though.
Nice. My gripen was completly destroyed and was contemplating getting another one or going with the rafale
Definitely get the Rafale unless you get the vectored Gripen.
Would be nice to see you fly the mirage 2000 from Freewing
It's on the agenda in the future!
I have a question, coming from flying an Freewing Avanti 80mm (that I love) I'm looking at both of these. The Eurofighter 90mm's a little too much. It sounds like from your video here that you favor the FMS Rafale over the Freewing Gripen? With one would you advise?
Rafale is definitely more fun than a stock Gripen with no thrust vectoring. And it's a bit cheaper, too, if you get it via bit.ly/Rafale80 and use the code $35Rafale-TBRC - which hopefully still works!
@@TwoBrosRC Excellent! You've a new customer. I've also a Spektrum AR637T w/SPM9747 ready for it. Also, are the speed breaks or the crow already built-in to the mixing board?
They should be part of the mixing board, but we highly recommend landing with the nose up and not worrying about crow on this plane. While it works, the stock setup causes you to lose a decent bit of control authority.
@@TwoBrosRC Excellent. Last question, is there any advantage in replacing the stock ESC on this Rafale 80mm with a Spectrum Avian 130 Amp Brushless Smart ESC? Possibly run a little cooler if I'm hard on the throttle.
No point, really. The jet is designed for a 100 amp ESC. It runs perfectly fine on it.
Hey guys, great video! I'm totally hooked on the Rafale! It is so maneuverable it's not funny:) It will just about swaps-ends in a 180 turn without departing. I have found the crow feature to be mostly useless as the plane decelerates rapidly with elevator input & this plane has no problem slowing down. The full scale jet has slats that are used in conjunction with flaps, which is mostly how the flaps are usable as they cancil each other out. Not sure if I'm going to Nall, but if you guys go & I can make it, we should do some tandem flights there:)
The leading edge flaps are pretty common on full scale jets but pretty rare when it comes to scale flying models. It'd be nice to start seeing them because they'd significantly improve low speed handling for some jets, especially Hornet-types.
Love your channel,great stuff
What camcorder set up do you use?
Quality and framing is excellent
Tia
Sony AX53.
Anyone else hear the Fort Gray's Airbase hangar music from Ace Combat 7 during the comparison of the two aircraft?
Nice flights once again Jon !!!!! 🎉🎉🎉🎉 well done bro ! Of course Rafale is a winner and it’s way more beautiful (not in yellow of course) but now BUY the Freewing Mirage 2000 🥳🥳🥳
Didn't know Stan Wawrinka had a brother flying RC jets! Do you also play tennis? Nice video by the way 😉
Haha, there's a little bit of a resemblance!
how are you setting up the gripens cannards into air brakes
There's a setup guide on our channel that covers it.
@@TwoBrosRC Thank you will go and look for it
The Rafale has impressive abilities for sure.
My friend does insane high alpha with the Gripen. Beyond 45°. I like that it flies more like a bigger plane. The thing I don't like about the Gripen is the nose gear location. The gear should be in the aft of the gear bay and retract forward. It looks goofy with the gear so far forward. I want to get a FW Gripen and repaint it in the green splinter camo and move the gear.
Gripen means Griffon I believe. I'm norwegian.
Beyond 30 degrees or so, the Gripen loses yaw stability and begins drifting out of control. The F-22 90mm from Freewing is very similar in that regard. The only way it doesn't do that is with vectored thrust on a gyro to stabilize it.
great review and perfect timing!
I have a rafale coming today.this will be the longest day at work after watching this on my break lol.keep u the great content🤙
Is the vectored gripen can beat rafale?
Maybe, but we're not comparing a TV jet to a non-TV jet.
What the cost of those batteries? I have the Fms love this jet by far
Check SMC-racing.com for the price on Danny's LiHV batteries, but they don't appear to be terribly expensive.
Both awesome jets of there wing type.
Can't wait!
But both of them has S-like wing profile, with rear edge pulling down, and I doubt that flaps would act the same way as at a classic, say, F/A-18 etc.
Please, advice me, what battery-monitoring system you use? Or what you join to the balance plug?
It absolutely would work if the canards could travel up more. We use a Spektrum voltage cable connected to an AR8360T.
Hello bonjour à vous ! Merci beaucoup pour le vol Rafale c top .. CONTINUEZ !!! .. Cependant j'aurai une question svp .... quel récepteur avez-vous dans le Rafale ????? Stéphane de FRANCE ....
We use an AR8360T in the Rafale.
Hey did you have to change anything in the esc to get the high voltage batteries to work ?
Nope. SMC's batteries (and any LiHV, really) will work with a 6s compatible setup. Hit them up for some preordered packs - these things are a huge game changer.
How can i increase, power in Rafale? , due is to slow, have to go full throttle almost all the time. Any inrunner fster a powerfull u recomend? Thanks
Use a better battery. SMC LiHV packs will do the trick.
@@TwoBrosRC Thanks
Love it! Jon, which one do you prefer- F-16 80mm or the FMS Rafale 80mm? 😊
If we had to choose, the Rafale for sure. It's a better jet overall in terms of flight characteristics.
@@TwoBrosRC oh nice ! I really like it too!
Have you modify the motor or the fan on the Raf?
Nope, they're both stock power systems.
Why is it that the yellow airplane seems to be flying tail heavy
It isn't flying tail heavy at all though.
Could you handlaunch the 80mm rafale if you glued a handgrip underneath and had a 15mph wind???
You could hand launch it by throwing it. No need to put grips on it.
@@TwoBrosRC
Thanks 👍 where could you hold it from underneath?
@@windscreenrepairmanrich5528 Put your hands in front of the gear and use them as a brace before throwing.
Thanks for the informative video. It is nice to see the comparison. I think it would only be fair to pronounce Rafale with a French accent as the Gripen was pronounced with a Swedish intonation.😁
Keep the videos coming.
I'm not French so I have no idea how it's even pronounced, but thank you - or rather, tack så mycket!
Rafale.... although thrust vectoring can be added to the, Gripen
We will eventually pick up the TV version of the Gripen, but it won't be a fair comparison to the Rafale if we were to compare a vectored Gripen to a non-vectored Rafale.
Hi Jon. How would the Rafale do on grass? I don't have access to a hard runway. Cheers
It probably wouldn't perform well on grass unless you copied our setup and used 150% rates on all surfaces to help lift it up at slower speeds.
@@TwoBrosRC ok cheers👍 I could always use those rates for takeoff and then see how I feel in the air. I have access to open grass areas but no largeish paved areas. I have a 1600mm flightline spit that does grass ok but the gear doors have been removed by the grass twice now so I leave them off. Looking for a jet that has LG that will do ok in average grass
Very nice !!
Do you happen to have a discount code for motion rc? I am looking to buy the F14 that you just had on your channel and was hoping you had a discount code they gave you to share with your followers?
We don't work with Motion. As far as we know, nobody does. Anything we fly from Motion is full-priced.
The comment about the gripen being heavier seems to be wrong. If you look up the weight on both there is 1 kg difference between them two, where Rafale is the heavier of them.
There is no way that's accurate if Gripen has tail weight added to get it to balance neutral.
You should try the Freewing Avanti S. It’s more of a beginner 80mm but it’s fast and very agile
To be honest, we really hate the aesthetic of that jet. It may be something we pick up though.
@@TwoBrosRC That’s an ugly jet for sure but very very efficient, I prefer Viper90 though…🤓
Its a classic aerobatic jet. Flies super stable and predictable - but for these reasons you can't do anything crazy with it.
@@TwoBrosRC You don't like the "Avanti"... I'm mad of it. So, what type of sport jets do you like?
We don't like the aesthetics of it - the way it looks. If it had a profile similar to a Viper, it would be much more tolerable to look at.
I took your advise and purchased the Rafale,at 80 years old would you send me your setup but toned down a bit or would oem setup be ok for me?
Regards
Adrian
If you picked it up from our links, thank you! It's a huge help to us. The setup we're flying is a bit advanced and requires being able to have enough patience to deal with rewiring the jet and bypassing the FMS control box. For most people, just flying it stock is fine - all our setup does is bypass the box so we can have 100% configurable crow and reduces a little bit of weight. Stock setup is probably totally fine.
@@TwoBrosRC thankyou really enjoy your site
I'm just seeing because there's a flu that's from Brazil 🇧🇷. Just kidding I see because I like the videos.
Now, the only plane that is missing in youre delta collection is the Eurofigher Typhoon, if there is even a model of it. :D
There was one until Freewing discontinued it!
Oh okay. :o and thanks for the answer, big fan of youre channel.
There is one now!
Do you have the vector thrust set up on the Gripen?
I wish you did...
Nope - it's a stock thrust setup.
that saved a few bucks.. have the rafale, no need to consider the other then.... solve the delta wing rock? these two deltas like to rock a little. I've tried every gyro gain or no gain... they just have a little rock to them.
We haven't noticed the wing rock on the Rafale with an aft CG.
no offence meant mate😊
Drop the crow for landing, and just rely on high alpha to slow you down. Crow seems cool in theory, but kinda sucks in practice.
Half crow seems to work pretty well. Full just makes it feel weird coming in because it limits elevon travel authority. It's definitely not needed though, but does help slow the jet down if it's deployed after touching down.
LiVH batteries, I need some please
www.smc-racing.com
@@TwoBrosRC I have never heard of these batteries before. So longer flying time with these batteries?
@@JP-ij6gf Yes, generally. More power as well.
@@TwoBrosRC Awesome, thank you very much.
What if gripen had TV?
Check our latest video on Gripen, it's featuring TV
Gripen ❤
Replace your stock exhaust with thrust vectoring. The difference is day and night.
The Rafale doesn't come with thrust vectoring so it would be a completely unfair comparison between them if we were to use a TV Gripen vs a non-TV Rafale. You also can't just replace the Gripen's stock exhaust system after it's been installed with glue. It's a permanent bond.
@@TwoBrosRC Do you think you will ever get a plane and put TV on it (FW MiG 29, hint hint 😉)
@@aerospacematt9147 Keep an eye out for tomorrow. ;)
I should finally unbox my year old Rafale
You should. It's a great jet.
Awsum guys
Thanks!
6 minutes: WE told ya!🤷♂️😁
I could build you a draken!!!!
That'd be interesting.
I’m about to build another one as the one I built was very fast and one of my first jets, there is a video of it on my page
Couldn't see a Draken on your channel.
@@TwoBrosRC
ua-cam.com/users/shortsk7HOzRE06nU?feature=share
Looks a bit unstable like it was slightly or moderately tail heavy. Nice design from what we could see. If you're looking to get these mass produced, we'd be open to demonstrating it for you.
@@TwoBrosRC not in the mass production fase yet, but this was my first variation in pla so it was slightly heavy, and please excuse my inexperience as a pilot but I’ve gotten much better since then. I added you on tic toc as well and will be posting some still shots for you to look at, I’d be interested in having you do a demo with one as you’re an excellent pilot, there are a few different edf jets that I would really enjoy building for people but are being refined and having more features added. Thank you for your time , btw I love watching you fly all the different jets and I actually bought a rafel but am waiting till I have more flight time logged
Rafale definitely flies better
Love your channel.. but its not Greee-pon Its pronounced Grifff-fon ;)
It's not.
Like 👍🏼 friend ✈✈
I've got nothing but bad luck with edf jets I had a freewing stinger 64 crashed first flight and totaled on the second flight so my freewing f16 70mm jet has been hanging in my room for many years 😆
Sorry to hear that. The best and the tamest EDF I found is eflite F15 64mm with AS3X. Super stable and forgiving. I found it boring after a while because it’s not challenging anymore. Dont be discouraged, edf jetss are more fun than warbirds
@@henryairconcepts2999 right on definitely try again sometime gotta get a spectrum setup to so I can have some stabilized help when I do lol
I know but saying greeepen like it's the worst pronounced word makes me cringe,not hating just an observation😊 I can't say tandoori properly off the top of my head
That's how it's pronounced.
stop saying greepen,it's gripen
It's not.
say grippen, not griepan
No.
@@TwoBrosRC plz?
Why does he say Gripen so weird?! Geeze
That's how it's pronounced in Swedish.
@@TwoBrosRC those poor people
Hey Jon do you ever plan on going TV on the gripen?
We'd have to get a new Gripen to do that. Ours is currently retired.
@@TwoBrosRC Oh no. Crashed or put in storage?
@@stopitdad69 Just retired after about 600 flights. It's sitting in storage.
@@TwoBrosRC If you got a new one would you do TV or keep it the exact same.
@@stopitdad69 TV, but we're not sure that we'd get another one until it's made lightweight.