Thanks! That helped a lot! When listening to the D-term section, I kept hearing you refer to dumping, and got confused. Eventually I realized you were saying damping, and things started to make sense again. :-) I'm not trying to criticize, just trying to be part of a feedback loop for you. I wouldn't even try to speak your native language, so I appreciate you talking to us, in ours.
I took one basic language course in Polish at my university years in my youth. It is NOT an easy language to learn. Pawel is very fluent in English. And I wanna thank him for tutorials like this one, it helps people like me who aren’t professionals but happy hobbyists to understand what and why this tech stuff works the way it does. Thanks!
So, just to confirm, you said that betaflight and emuflight use measurement to calculate the D term, but not inav. Can we assume by this that inav uses the error to calculate the d term?
INAV uses dterm_setpoint weight that allows you to choose what is chosen. 1 means error, 0 means measurement. 0.5 means, like expected, value in between
Again very informative video ! Thank you! Could you make a video how a PID controller is trained ? What equation is used for the plant model of a quad ?
thanks Pawel. I'd be interested to hear more about I-term relax/I=decay - including equations if necessary (I still remember a little of my undergrad Engineering Maths!).
The answer to your question lies within the deepest darkest core of INAV firmware. Tread carefully! github.com/iNavFlight/inav/blob/master/src/main/flight/pid.c
@@alsmith2422 red if you want to learn about PID. Although that implementation is complicated by quaternions and rotation matrices. In my first day of class for linear control systems at UVa the professor with a very quiet and heavy chinese accent was impossible to hear. I got distracted and started implementing a PID control system in Processing IDE, finished before he was done talking about the course and promptly dropped it 🤣
As Rpm increases so does the sensitivity of the PID controller. TPA Throttle Pid attenuation reduces the PID value to keep it balanced preventing oscillations.
@@briannicholas2969 guess I should just look at the code, but that makes enough sense when thinking about tuning high kv 'toothpick' 3" compared to 5, 7' inch builds as far as betaflight/inav/emu/etc etc etc are concerned. ty
Damn good video... Btw, you should increase your shutter speed, your movements make me dizzy, in fpv terms your movements are cinematic (with motion blur) 😜
I survived! Thanks for the Nice video, will be very useful if u can make video and mention where we can find already applied in the INAV code the diagram in 18:26
I think a better word for 'mechanical' would be 'robotic' in your explanation :) But still came across. Very nice video. Will you do more about this topic?
@@FPVUniversity Please, please, PULEEAAAASE do! I would be forever grateful if you could explain the relationship between 1). The different sources of measurement values 2). The main categories of flight modes and 3). the different families of PID Gains available in iNav. Examples of each would be: Sensors: gyro, accelerometer, GPS, and barometer Modes: rate/acro, angle/horizon, and NavPosHold Familes of PID Gains: Rate stabilization: mc_*_pitch/mc_*_roll/mc_*_yaw Attitude Stabilization: mc_*_level XY Position: nav_mc_pos_xy_*, nav_mc_vel_xy_* Z position: nav_mc_pos_z_*, nav_mc_vel_z_*, inav_w_z_baro_*, inav_w_z_gps_* Here are some example scenarios of what you could help explain. I think it would be of great value to the community: 1). When does the controller use baro inputs? GPS? Accelerometer? 2). When flying a quad in Acro mode, does the controller use the Attitude Stabilization PIDs at all (mc_*_level)? Why or why not? 3). When flying a quad in Angle mode, which PIDs does the controller use when roll angle is less than max_angle_inclination_rll? What does it use when that angle is exceeded? Why? 4). When flying a quad in NavPosHold, does the controller use the rate stabilization PIDs at all? Why or why not? Does it use the Attitude Stabilization PIDs? 5). When flying a quad in NavPosHold - CRUISE, does the controller use the XY Position PIDs (nav_mc_pos_xy_*, nav_mc_vel_xy_*) at all? If so, for what purpose? If these subjects are covered in the literature, i can't find it anywhere, and it is causing me to chase my tail trying to diagnose issues with my current build. THANKS!!
It wold be nice, with some practical examples on the field, or just holding copter in hand - "this is high P and copter/plane behaves like that, and that is low D and it behaves just like that"
Witam! Hi, I have a 6 inch (BlackOpal Ultra Light) the one that is able to stay in the air for 55 minutes. I'm having some weird vibrations sounds - ua-cam.com/video/UG3tKmGH3Bo/v-deo.html I changed props, but the vibrations are the same in mid to high throttle. Any idea what slider to move [P, D or I]?
Why is stick arming removed from inav? It said it was unsafe i am not sure how stick arming is less safe than arming with just a switch. Also for some with limited channels it would have been nice to keep stick arming as an option.
brother, can u help me share ur video that explains steps to follow for PID tuning on inav? im using 3inch quad same like cloud 149 but with F722SE. ive upgarded to latest inav. check here ua-cam.com/video/gV8IRMQDk-s/v-deo.html so i need to see the starting steps to setup the PIDs. if im correct, i think i need to work on D gain as its drifting to one side....i used blheli 32 esc app and all 4 ESCs have same starting and end points
Ok now lets do an in depth video!!
I second this
Genius. Thank you. This video has helped me immensely. Your knowledge will be passed on down for years.
This is one of those videos that I smash the like button before I even watch it. Now, on with the video. Be safe, Pawel!
May you do a "noob"-Version of this theme?
For example: The quad shakes after sharp turns --> raise D ......
BlueRocket82 try BF
I thought I had a good understanding of PIDFF's, but l learned a lot from this.
Excellent presentation!! Science is awesome!!!
It really is!
Thanks! That helped a lot! When listening to the D-term section, I kept hearing you refer to dumping, and got confused. Eventually I realized you were saying damping, and things started to make sense again. :-)
I'm not trying to criticize, just trying to be part of a feedback loop for you. I wouldn't even try to speak your native language, so I appreciate you talking to us, in ours.
I do welcome you to try polish :) But yeah, some sounds are so super hard for me. Y
I took one basic language course in Polish at my university years in my youth. It is NOT an easy language to learn. Pawel is very fluent in English. And I wanna thank him for tutorials like this one, it helps people like me who aren’t professionals but happy hobbyists to understand what and why this tech stuff works the way it does. Thanks!
Thanks, very simple explanation even for not native english speakers on 2x speed)
Thank you Paweł, if only in university i would have known this use-case for PID,... :D It all sounds so logical now.
thank for his video it a help a lot to understand way PID controller works
So, just to confirm, you said that betaflight and emuflight use measurement to calculate the D term, but not inav. Can we assume by this that inav uses the error to calculate the d term?
INAV uses dterm_setpoint weight that allows you to choose what is chosen. 1 means error, 0 means measurement. 0.5 means, like expected, value in between
Paweł Spychalski Awesome. Thanks Paweł. I’m liking these more technical videos.
👍 looking forward to future videos ..
Again very informative video ! Thank you! Could you make a video how a PID controller is trained ? What equation is used for the plant model of a quad ?
Bardzo fajnie wytłumaczone
thanks Pawel. I'd be interested to hear more about I-term relax/I=decay - including equations if necessary (I still remember a little of my undergrad Engineering Maths!).
just look in the code and you will understood, how do they work
Good video! Now I am interested to know how INAV handles D term... 🤔
The answer to your question lies within the deepest darkest core of INAV firmware. Tread carefully!
github.com/iNavFlight/inav/blob/master/src/main/flight/pid.c
@@power-max Red or Blue pill?
@@alsmith2422 red if you want to learn about PID. Although that implementation is complicated by quaternions and rotation matrices.
In my first day of class for linear control systems at UVa the professor with a very quiet and heavy chinese accent was impossible to hear. I got distracted and started implementing a PID control system in Processing IDE, finished before he was done talking about the course and promptly dropped it 🤣
Great video thanks very much👍
Love me some science! At what point was tpa introduced? Like what problem in terms of _piloting feel_ what it trying to solve?
As Rpm increases so does the sensitivity of the PID controller. TPA Throttle Pid attenuation reduces the PID value to keep it balanced preventing oscillations.
@@briannicholas2969 guess I should just look at the code, but that makes enough sense when thinking about tuning high kv 'toothpick' 3" compared to 5, 7' inch builds as far as betaflight/inav/emu/etc etc etc are concerned. ty
Science!!!!
Damn good video...
Btw, you should increase your shutter speed, your movements make me dizzy, in fpv terms your movements are cinematic (with motion blur) 😜
I find the principles quite easy to understand when broken down but some things hide behind scary words which may seem like voodoo but its not!
Please what’s the difference between PID and QFT controllers? They all control the same Electro-hydrostatic Actuator!
Please any answer!
I survived! Thanks for the Nice video, will be very useful if u can make video and mention where we can find already applied in the INAV code the diagram in 18:26
I think a better word for 'mechanical' would be 'robotic' in your explanation :) But still came across.
Very nice video. Will you do more about this topic?
Probably. Can not fly, can not build, have to sit at home. Might as well record this kind of videos :)
@@FPVUniversity Please, please, PULEEAAAASE do! I would be forever grateful if you could explain the relationship between 1). The different sources of measurement values 2). The main categories of flight modes and 3). the different families of PID Gains available in iNav. Examples of each would be:
Sensors:
gyro, accelerometer, GPS, and barometer
Modes:
rate/acro, angle/horizon, and NavPosHold
Familes of PID Gains:
Rate stabilization: mc_*_pitch/mc_*_roll/mc_*_yaw
Attitude Stabilization: mc_*_level
XY Position: nav_mc_pos_xy_*, nav_mc_vel_xy_*
Z position: nav_mc_pos_z_*, nav_mc_vel_z_*, inav_w_z_baro_*, inav_w_z_gps_*
Here are some example scenarios of what you could help explain. I think it would be of great value to the community:
1). When does the controller use baro inputs? GPS? Accelerometer?
2). When flying a quad in Acro mode, does the controller use the Attitude Stabilization PIDs at all (mc_*_level)? Why or why not?
3). When flying a quad in Angle mode, which PIDs does the controller use when roll angle is less than max_angle_inclination_rll? What does it use when that angle is exceeded? Why?
4). When flying a quad in NavPosHold, does the controller use the rate stabilization PIDs at all? Why or why not? Does it use the Attitude Stabilization PIDs?
5). When flying a quad in NavPosHold - CRUISE, does the controller use the XY Position PIDs (nav_mc_pos_xy_*, nav_mc_vel_xy_*) at all? If so, for what purpose?
If these subjects are covered in the literature, i can't find it anywhere, and it is causing me to chase my tail trying to diagnose issues with my current build.
THANKS!!
Nice try to make the explanation very simple :) maybe next time
this wasn't a try, he succeed in it. IDK how to simplify it even more
goood video give me moree!!! :D
It wold be nice, with some practical examples on the field, or just holding copter in hand - "this is high P and copter/plane behaves like that, and that is low D and it behaves just like that"
Ma Ra lol. Good luck. I flash it tune once and if it doesn’t fly right I buy Vector
Hi Pawel, if I good understand ... FF does not work in a feedback loop, Is it true?
yes. Well, the output of FF goes into actuator and then the response is mesured, but the only input to the FF component is setpoint itself
Witam! Hi, I have a 6 inch (BlackOpal Ultra Light) the one that is able to stay in the air for 55 minutes. I'm having some weird vibrations sounds - ua-cam.com/video/UG3tKmGH3Bo/v-deo.html I changed props, but the vibrations are the same in mid to high throttle. Any idea what slider to move [P, D or I]?
Why is stick arming removed from inav?
It said it was unsafe i am not sure how stick arming is less safe than arming with just a switch.
Also for some with limited channels it would have been nice to keep stick arming as an option.
switch works immediately, stick arm/disarm has huge delay
I agree, that they shall leave it as an option like betaflight did.
brother, can u help me share ur video that explains steps to follow for PID tuning on inav? im using 3inch quad same like cloud 149 but with F722SE. ive upgarded to latest inav. check here ua-cam.com/video/gV8IRMQDk-s/v-deo.html so i need to see the starting steps to setup the PIDs. if im correct, i think i need to work on D gain as its drifting to one side....i used blheli 32 esc app and all 4 ESCs have same starting and end points
прекрасный пример работы PID контроллера ua-cam.com/video/qKy98Cbcltw/v-deo.html
+1👍 💪 WTF is mixer.c ? :D :D :D
Control theory is engineering, not science.