No, Lois is Not the New Amber
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- Опубліковано 20 лип 2024
- On Twitter.com, now known as X, people have been talking about Lois Lane from My Adventures With Superman like she's the new Amber after episode 5 of season 1. Let's just say I disagree.
00:00 - Intro
01:14 - Build Up
04:27 - Confrontation Differences
07:09 - Aftermath Differences
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Hey everyone! Thanks for watching and all the discussions in the comments, it’s been real fun reading them all. This is my first scripted video, so I was real nervous that I would mess it up but this may be more in my wheelhouse after all.
I’ll definitely be trying my hand at more discussion/review videos for shows and games.
Great analysis.
Do more vids like this. Fyi I subscribed because of this vid
A little detail you didn't mention in the video , when Lois asks Clark if he really thought she would reveal his secret identity when she knew it was him Clark says something along the lines of 'you just jumped off a building I don't know what to think' which highlights just how absurd and how far she is willing to take things so of course he would have his doubts.
BTW I think there is a strong case to show that Amber was a bad person from the start even without that 'twist' recontextualizing everything to be worse. She had never been shown to actually like, or be endeared by Mark she only asked him out when she saw him leave with the IT girl Eve not when he stood up for her against Tod she didn't even thank him if I recall. And when he came back from getting hit by a 'bus' she didn't show concern but instead started to talk about how she dumped him even tho he didn't come because he got hit by a 'bus' and almost fucking died. Who does that? Who won't give a guy a pass for missing your stupid soup kitchen cause he almost fucking died? Not a good person thats who and now with her knowing that he almost died on hero duty that its soo much worse. Seriously she did not get ruined because of that one scene she was horrible from the start.
Good vid. Just finished rewatching invincible. The tug of war between watching your significant other be a hero and lacking the quality time to make a relationship work could be a very interesting very real conundrum. Unfortunately the writers fumbled the bag. Hopefully the writers can clear up why their relationship doesn’t work in the next season.
Amber is toxic, and the Invincible writers seem to think her views and actions are justified. In contrast Lois is a sympathetic character who exhibits human flaws. I don't think the Superman writers expect the audience to cosign on her behavior. I just wish they'd fix some of the tumblrish dialog.
In the first episode Lois realizes SHE was in the wrong and apologized to Clark
As for Amber, she gave Mark the silent treatment and tried to flirt with another dude on the same night
@@GlorytoAllah749 Her stubbornness and drive have always been shown to be equal parts greatest strength and greatest weakness. It's integral to her character.
@@GlorytoAllah749 Amber didnt flirt.
I think that the point and version of Amber is to eventually cut ties with Mark, especially knowing that Eve is placed with more emphasis in invincible
And Lois has a major gyat
I've said this elsewhere: Lois isn't upset at Clark, she is upset at her father.
The biggest reason she liked him was his ethics. She thought she found a guy who was exactly the opposite of her father. Now it turns out he has a double life too and it is bringing out all her old resentments. Why do you think she became a "Crusading Journalist"?
It's not so strange really. My grandmother said that the reason she fell for my grandfather in the first place was "he was the kindest man I had ever met."
Considering that her father's way of greeting her was to loudly complain about how fat she had gotten, I cannot say I am surprised.
I hadn’t thought of that reasoning at all, but it makes perfect sense! Kind of wish I could’ve put it in the video
It doens't matter Clarks doesn't know his dad and she should be AWARE of this, one has a double life being the embodyment of hope, the other one is brings dead to people as any other general does oh wait I meant "protect america".
@@AzureWilerI think years of Lois having to move from state and the fact that Sam never told her what her own mothers illness she was dying seems to have lead her to become very pissed when she feels that she is being lied too which is why I bet she became a journalist.
She still seems to love Clark but his lack of honesty when he was always trying to get her to be more honest in her actions is kinda dickish as a relationship needs to built on trust
Yo... THIS. Spot on dude. People need to give the show time. Like shit, the next episode will probably address this
@@kwayneboy1524 yeah it wasn't explicit but i thought a huge part of her rage was that clark looked like a massive hypocrite since he lectured others about not keeping secrets while not living up to that standard himself
Can we also take the time to appreciate how Jimmy knew Clark's secret this whole time but respected his privacy? He did not pull an Amber either.
Folks need to be like Jimmy, y'all.
If only Lois showed the same respect.
@@gaara4667, I mean she said herself that she wasn't sure he was honest about his feelings towards her, she clearly thought it was a front for Superman.
@@KingKeanuTheFirst that changes nothing. She never respected his privacy and forced personal information out of him.
Jimmy is Clarks best friend but he didn’t use that to beat Clark into revealing personal information about himself. 🤷🏿♂️
@@gaara4667exactly, if lois found out, she should have given him time or chances over a period of time to explain his situation. That would build trust too. But nah she was feeling too jumpy for that lmao
The change of Amber’s personality is just absolutely questionable. In the comics, she was just worried that Mark was a drug dealer and when he revealed the truth she actually was relieved. But as Mark’s responsibilities got heavier and heavier, she started to grow distant and at one point nearly had a nervous breakdown because she could not live with it all. They broke up ON GOOD TERMS, and whenever she needed his help, Mark was willing to be there for her.
The show has her just be a total POS and I can’t believe Mark is okay with getting back together. What’s worse is she equated HIS lying with HIS DAD’S lying, which are on two whole other degrees.
A lot of people say comic book Amber is boring but to me the way the two handled the situation was done a lot better in the comics both sides talked and listened to each other and came to a understanding that it wasn’t gonna work and yes they broke up but it was mutual. And it showed a lot of growth in both mark and amber to come to that understanding and still be on good terms. But tv amber is completely different she doesn’t even try to understand mark at all and I gotta be honest mark was a lot calmer than I would’ve been after she told me she knew. If I got beaten by my dad and found out what my dad was planning and she had the nerve to show up to my door and compare me lying to finding out my entire race are basically saiyans that door would flew off cause of how hard I’d slam it in her face.
Just wait until they do that story arc with Mark and his unfortunate interaction with a female Viltrumite.
They'll probably either pretend it didn't happen or it'll somehow be his fault.
@@theguylivinginyourwalls the only way mark gets a win in the show is IF he meets Anissa (I think that's her name) and Anissa meets amber at which point she'd cripple or kill amber and apologize to mark🤣
@@theguylivinginyourwalls na that man got assaulted and that showed how men can be assaulted to. God help them If they do either of those things.
@@curtismcpsycho8212 na they’ll probably make up some bs to make amber somehow get powers and be able to take Thragg all by herself.
The difference between them is this.
When Lois is written to be impulsive, sometimes hypercritical and having trust issues it's written as a flaw. She says sorry to clark about lying and she tends to apologize later.
With Amber the writing forces invisible to apologize and the story acts like he is the issue .
But that’s the thing, Mark does not apologize and is the issue. Mark knew the issue with the relationship steamed from his superhero identity. He constantly lied to her and did it poorly. He valued his secret identity of the lives of others until his friend was in trouble. He made a promosise he could not keep and broke it. He had 3 opportunities to fix the relationship and choose the worst option each time.
@@mangamandrew
He never valued his secret identity over people's lives, the literal reason his relationship was screwed is because he kept choosing to be a Hero instead of choosing to spend time with his girlfriend.
It's f*cking delusional to say Mark is in the wrong for risking his life to save other people and wanting to preserve his secret identity to protect his normal life and friends, he's a teenager who just got his powers and wanted the perks of both being a hero and a normal teen.
On the other hand, the show starts with Amber blackmailing someone into giving Mark her number, and gaslighting him into telling her by saying he "left her alone" when she knew he was the one who got his ass kicked to save her, and then tried to get into another guy's pants a few minutes after wordlessly breaking up with Mark.
Jesus f*cking Christ
This characters can and should be flawed is how world reacts to those flaws that matters. If characters flaws are never challenged never changed then it's bad writing
@@motivated2473 being a hero is not an excuse for being a bad partner. And he did value his secret identity over human life because instead of fighting the robot immediately threatening their lives, he hesitated because he did not want to reveal his secret identity. The relationship was screwed because Mark could not balance his responsibilities and that was a all on him.
And she blackmailed someone who was harassing her and Mark to leave them alone. Someone like that does not take no for an answer so she had to do it hat needed to be done to protect herself and Mark. She did not gaslight Mark. Amber knew he was as a superhero, not invincible. The people of their world can’t recognize heroes immediately even if they aren’t wearing a mask. And she did not wordless breakup with Mark, while she did not say “we a done” or anything to that extent. That argument was them breaking up. Also, she was not trying to have sex with that guy. She was going for a rebound which I s not inherently bad. And even then, she stops the pursuit when she realizes he has a GF.
Invincible is objectively the problem in the comic. If you can't see that, then you're probably not going to be successful in real world relationships.
The new episode points EVERYTHING out and makes it clear.
Lois just wasn't angry that Clark lied to her. She thought Clark had been lying about the budding relationship as well.
honestly that part hit me in the feels a bit
angry enough to die on the off chance that she is wrong?
@@georgesmith6218 Well to be fair at least Clark called her out on it right after so the writers are acknowledging that: Yes this was crazy of her to do even if she is right.
That part was peak stupid.
Like, there's no reason for her to think that if Clark was lying about Superman he'd be lying about having feelings for Lois. That was crappy writer back pedaling, trying to launder Lois from being kind of a shitty person into less of a shitty person. It's doubly-stupid when you remember that Lois is supposed to be, at least, a base-level reporter with a more cynical and logical eye.
@@georgesmith6218 Can't be Lois Lane unless she jumps of a building or two
We were given an entire episode worth of Lois suspecting and getting more information regarding this secret before pulling the old Superman 2 fall to seal the deal. With Amber, we're given an out of absolutely nowhere "I already know", leading us no choice but to view her previous actions as playing mind games in the middle of a life or death battle.
Yeah her knowing the entire time recontextualizes all of her actions with Mark and in a very, very bad way. It goes from her being unfair to Mark because of being mistaken, to her being unfair to Mark because she's just a twisted nasty piece of shit.
Didn't Lois jump out of the window in Daily planet in superman 1? She jumped off of a Niagara falls in superman 2.
The Niagara Falls scene is what I was referring to. I believe she jumped out the window in a deleted scene from Superman 2, or maybe it's in the Donner cut. There's another deletion where she shoots Clark with a blank in the gun. (Instead of him falling into the fire.)@@sonnywoods6846
@@sonnywoods6846 Lois jumping out of the window or off a building was already a iconic part of her character long before this show ever came out.
They also set it up that she knew and we knew Lois knew unlike amber who we never knew knew and who acted like a unreasonable bitch when she knew. Lois is reaction is a lot more believable and better written.
Another problem with Amber is that the writers of that show treat her as perfect, infallible, and correct. There was no scenario where Mark wins, his relationship with her was a lose/lose scenario. Yes, he lied about his secret identity, but since Amber had already figured it out, she should have realized why he was hiding it. You know, like every other hero in that universe does. As is the super hero trope. She also would have realized he didn't just run away and leave her alone, since she already knew Mark was Invincible, she literally watched Mark save her. Yet immediately after she treats him like he ran away like a coward and left her unprotected with a monster. The story treats her like she's right and holy and Mark is wrong. She actually treated him worse AFTER he realized he needed to tell her and revealed himself to her. That's why people hate Amber and Lois is nowhere near as bad. Lois isn't presented as perfect and flawless by the writers and her reactions are reasonable (well, reasonable in a world Superman exists anyway). Lois has character growth and probably will have more in the future.
Amber is a bad character.
And what makes it worse is that Amber was a better character in the Invincible comics. For one she was white (sorry but it has to be said, I hate unnecessary race-swaps of established characters, just getting it out of the way) and 2, she was WAY more wholesome. A bit bland, but more wholesome.
When Mark was gone for long periods and was seemingly stressed out after every battle, Amber was both concerned for him, but also was thinking he was a drug dealer, to which Mark revealed his identity to clear the air, and Amber, while surprised was relieved. She didn't know the entire time, but she also knew that being a superhero with a secret identity is a dangerous job, but a well-intended one, and could appreciate that Mark was just trying to help everyone despite the secret and lying.
Of course, as Mark fights harder and harder threats, Amber stresses out, has a mental breakdown, and begrudgingly tells Mark she can't take it anymore, to which Mark understood this, and they both ended the relationship on mutual terms.
They stay good friends however, and while eventually Amber falls off in the story, one of the major defining traits of her and Mark's story together is that despite Mark and Amber being Exs, Mark is always ready to help her regardless. This is especially true when later Amber gets into a new relationship that suddenly becomes dangerous when her new boyfriend is revealed to be a physically abusive monster, to when Mark founds out and hears him beating and berating her, he storms in and beats his ass to a bloody pulp. To which we root for given how sweet Amber is and how nice Mark and Amber's relationship is, even when it doesn't "work out".
Amazon's Amber I wouldn't blame Mark for not coming to her rescue if she got into an abusive relationship later down the line in the show if they actually go that direction. I'd rather go with the ballsy twist of Mark seeing Amber as the toxic bitch she's now been rewritten as and dump her as growth to his character and show men that it's never wrong to walk away from toxic, manipulative, narcissistic and abusive women. But at this rate I'm not sure that's gonna happen.
Now I wouldn’t want Mark to let anyone get abused by their partner. I would like him or Eve to call Amber the fuck out. I would love for Eve to be the one to call it out both to Mark and Amber. Telling Amber that she’s a bitch who doesn’t deserve Mark and then telling Mark to leave Amber.
@@kinghyperheart1571 SPOILERS
You're in luck, Mark will eventually be with Atom Eve as shown in the comics. I believe he will dump Amber in the show due to the toxic relationship, unlike how he did it in the comics, and he will be with Atom Eve.
Lois was worried. Amber just was upset he broke his promise, while knowing he was fighting killers… And dying
Amber went out and flirted with another boyfriend and Lois didn’t do that cause lois loves Clark
She literally knew Mark was Invincible when he saved her from the murder robot, got mad at him regardless, flirted with another guy on the same day, and the writers for some reason chopped that up as Mark's fault lol.
I'm honestly convinced a She Hulk screenwriter did a little sabatoging to Invincible's writing for the Mark-Amber subplot to get botched so badly.
@@ragingshibe spoiler warning
Alternatively, it could be the entire point of her character, and an important one for mark as well. In the comics, mark eventually leaves her for atom eve. In a way, the subplot of the strongest man alive having the courage to finally walk out of an abusive relationship could be what they are going for.
@bananarama1425it's either gonna break the internet or do nothing at all
People can't seem to grasp the fact that Amber had *NO* idea what was going on with Mark! So they just assume everything
Another thing to point out was that in the first episode of Superman, Clark called out Lois for lying, so she is understandably mad at him for lying to her.
He wasn’t Superman then
@@roachofdoom1234 I don't think this is the point.
No, she's not, because she has had no reason to lie to him and does it in every episode with zero consequences. Yes he called her out and then immediately convinced himself that he was wrong. He lied to her about something he doesn't even fully understand yet, something that she was trying to expose and has proved that she is not a trustworthy person.
She lied to him about his job and something that could potentially ruin his life. He is choosing to not tell her about his personal life yet. Not really comparable.
@@thesourpatchkidd579This did not happen. For one, Clark does not convince himself that she was correct. If anything with the small amount we hear from him talking to himself, he's certain he's correct but is just struggling with that because he does like Lois. And second of all, that episode ends with Lois apologizing to Clark and saying he was right and that she would be more honest with him. Even saying something along the lines of "no secrets between friends" setting up the ending from episode 5 even more.
Lois is SO well written in this, she's a perfect breath of fresh air for the character WITHOUT disrespecting her old iterations.
The most level headed take on this. Yes, there is a war going on in metropolis, and super hero’s secret identities are used because they don’t want their loved ones to be targets of their nemesis's.
At the same time, relationships are BUILT on trust. If there’s no trust, the whole building crumbles down. Lois has every right to be pissed, Clark has every right to be defensive.
Calling her the next Amber though? THAT is a load of bullshit, Lois is infinitely deeper than Amber ever will be.
Well she has a right to be pissed until you consider they've known each other for a month tops
@@masontoy1976 I would also like to point out that Superman is the first Superhero in a lot of DC continuities, and it seems like that's what they're going with here. There's no book written on this, so unlike Invincible, where Superheroes are established and keeping secret identities would be the norm... this isn't the case here.
Also the time they've known each other is irrelevant here as.. They were clearly heading to a serious relationship, fast, and were clicking on a deeper level.
I'm not siding with one side, or the other as the writers are clearly establishing that BOTH have a point here, and they do. They're not raising one over the other. This is just a sucky situation that they will have to learn to work through, and to be honest?
The fact that the writers have the balls to do this is really cool to me. Character conflict that's IN character and due to established character traits? Sign me up.
wait a second... I know this comment.
cuz i wrote it. verbatim.
You don't threaten suicide to someone you trust
You don’t jump off a building to force someone into telling their secret, especially when you made it clear that your focus is to expose that person’s secret to the public.
Lois in this case actually exhibited behavior seen in her past incarnations. Rash judgement, hot tempered, jumping into dangerous situations just to get to the bottom of a story, all character traits we've seen of her in past versions. The fact that the writers of the show made the audience fall in love with her before we saw all this just shows how well written her character is. People are just mad cause until this point, they just viewed her as a reincarnation of Luz Noceda.
There are a few other reason people might get mad. It's not '"just" the Luz thing.
Some people are going to be upset because they came to this show for cutesy moments, and they are instead suddenly getting drama. And since the show has really not given them much else besides cutesy moments prior to this, that group being caught off guard isn't that crazy.
Also, some people are always going to get annoyed when a character in a show is being dumb. That's just unavoidable. And the writers, by not resolving this before the end of the episode, will have further enflamed that annoyance in those people.
I'm sure there's a bunch more, but those are the ones that apply to me.
@@jef_3006 As someone comes for cute moment and now have to deal with drama. Yeah, you sum it up really well
Wait, she isn't a rehashed Luz Noseda? :O
@@jef_3006 I genuinely don't know how to tell you this, friend, but this is a coming-of-age Superman show. There was ALWAYS going to be some bit of drama between the characters. Hell, Lois jumping off a roof is actually fairly minor compared to the stuff she did in the old Fleischer cartoons.
As for her acting stupid - characters are allowed to make irrational decisions if it's based off of their own pre-established internal logic. In Lois' case, she new for certain that Clark was certain due to a variety of factors:
- Him throwing that dumbell in a box like it was nothing
- He came from Smalltown,Kansas, and there were rumors of a Smalltown flying boy in the tabloids going back over a decade
- The sudden scrapes he had on his neck
- He has the EXACT SAME FACE, BUILD AND VOICE as superman
Honestly, this Clark Kent did a poor job hiding his secret identity, so it only made sense that Lois would figure it out. She was pissed off that he was lying to her face, just as her father did when her mom was dying, and so she jumped off that roof as a way to call his bluff.
@@seagullman87 There's a difference between having drama between the characters, and having "drama" between the characters. You can have characters have disagreement where they can't find a solution, without one of them declaring an end to the relationship, storming off, and leaving the audience on an emotional cliff hanger. The latter isn't necessarily bad writing, but I personally do not enjoy it.
I wish people would stop saying, "Lois did crazier things in the comics" as though it was a defense of this. I'm sure there were some Superman comics where Lois was racists. That doesn't mean modern Lois should be racist. When you do an adaptation, you change things.
And of course characters are allowed to act stupid. Equally, I am allowed to be annoyed by characters acting stupid. It should really be taken as a compliment; if I didn't buy Lois as a character, I wouldn't be so annoyed by her being dumb.
It's not like I don't like the show anymore after this episode or anything. The scene just annoys me.
Good comparison of how Lois is NOT as bad as Amber. I honestly think that Lois was wrong to do what she did to expose Clark's secret since it wasn't hers to know until Clark was ready to tell, but I understand why Lois would do what she did. I honestly think that Lois and Clark will be able to work out this issue better than Mark and Amber because Lois and Clark do genuinely care about each other, and they haven't even started a relationship.
and there are more episodes left so we'll see how lois' and clark's relatiobship would turn out. not like with invincible where it was revealed that amber knew about him in like the last episode. we never knew what happened next, maybe she changed, maybe she didn't. we had to wait years for the next season.
I think a much better response to learning that your crush/lover is a superhero can be found with Lois Lane... Oh, not this one: the Smallville version.
In that series, when Lois figured out that Clark was a superhero, she didn't confront him, try to egg him on, or emotionally manipulate him (like Amber seems to have done). Instead, she just tried her hardest to prove to Clark that she could be trusted. She respected that it was *his* secret to tell and wanted desperately to earn that kind of trust.
I've seen the episode titles, judging by what I've seen Lois should be making up with Clark around episode 7. Regardless of that information though, yeah, while feelings have clearly been hurt you can tell by the body language and tone that there is still a love between them, but they HAVE to get over come this situation if they are to continue their friendship and eventual romance. Besides, if you read the comics these shows are based on you know that Clark and Lois are bound to reconcile, while Mark and Amber aren't.
Lois is also hotter so that’s also a point
You would understand jumping from a roof!? I'm not trying to be offensive I'm just joking a bit
Media literacy is dead because people can't understand that characters are meant to be flawed. Lois isn’t being treated as in the right, she’s just expressing her frustrations. Should she be mad at Clark? Not really, but you can understand why based on her characterization. And still this is an intentional character flaw, she hates being lied to, even if its for her own good.
It’s facts. A character shows one flaw and everyone hates on them right away
It's definitely dead, it's like people can't figure out that Amber being toxic is meant to be perceived that way on purpose, and that character are flawed for the purpose of character building. This creates a paradox, already perfect female characters are too unrelatable but imperfect female characters are bad people and don't deserve redemption. The only acceptable female character seems to be the one who has their own life then drops everything to support the main character (I may be wrong though)
@@natasharules6737 now you lack media literacy, Eve and William side with Amber and she returns with "We both were lied to." Which implies that show AGREES WITH HER. It's not that deep, Invincible show is just dumb and fallen into trope that comic WAS EXPLICITLY MOCKING AND AVOID FOR ACTUAL UNIQUE RELATIONSHIP. Lois was written to be worried about people lying to her due to her dad and her being concerned for why Clark wouldn't say bout damages. AND CLARK ACTUALLY ARGUES BACK. Which shows that both have reasons and next episode is about their concerns, both of their concerns. While Invincble seems to just hate Mark for no reason.
@mikhaelgribkov4117 no dude, the show is not a person, the only person is the viewer. You are supposed to think the main character is experiencing injustice and shows how people within the show can be wrong.
Think about Thanos, his reasons for decimating whole populations is interesting and makes the viewer think that overpopulation is in fact a problem, just because within the MCU Thanos has supporters doesn't mean Marvel studios wants us to agree with genocide. You as a watcher can simply make your own opinion
@@natasharules6737 exactly.
Amber’s anger is retroactively not understandable once you find out that she knew who he was for weeks. Her getting upset that he left at the college makes no sense because she knew at that point, and SAW Invincible save William. Then she goes off to cheat. It was understandable anger before we found out she already knew, but with that knowledge, it makes no sense. She knows why he’s late all the time, and it’s a VERY good reason. If the roles were reversed, we’d expect Mark to understand, be patient and wait for her to feel comfortable to share her secret, and support her. Not blow up and emotionally manipulate
I think it not the fact he’s lying to her but he’s obviously lying. He clearly doesn’t value her as much as he thinks he does which shows that he’s still a kid going through a very huge change in he’s life being a super hero.
The writing could have been better but I don’t see people really talking about how bad they were for each other at the time and not just someone being toxic
@@mikeboi64-49it seems she only showed interest in him cause she saw him and Eve when I saw that I knew this wasn’t gonna work.
What bothered me was that I felt the show was trying gaslight me. Amber did not know at the college that he was Invincible, but then the show acts like she did and it makes no sense
@@MakiPcr her blow out was comic accurate ...... everything else was shows bs. Why we can't do anime and just adapt the damn fucking book?
The main difference is that Lois is well written and Amber isn't. Regardless of whether you agree with her, her reaction is in line wiht her established character. Lois is hot headed and emotional and behaves appropriately when she thinks she's been betrayed or lied to.
Amber, on the other hand, was established to get upset when Mark stood her up or disappeared. If she *had* known, she should have understood that him saving lives was more important than their date. Her finding out weeks ago, as she claimed, with no build up or foreshadowing, seems more like the writers wanting a clever twist to their dynamic without going back and checking if it fit. People call her toxic and narcissistic, but the truth is the writers screwed up.
I'm honestly inclined to believe Amber's lying about having known, and while I understand saying anything to get rid of him, I don't understand how the writers thought either interpretation would be a good twist, or that leaving it up to that level of interpretation was okay.
The writers didn't screw up. What they got is an audience unable to understand why lying to someone until they're sick of you is a bad. And people expect characters to be automatically forgiven for their actions.
@@DDarkestKnight If you think disclosing something as important as a superhero secret identity to someone you have been dating for less than a year is a good idea, you legit have a smooth brain.
Also, you Amber defenders being so obsessed with the "keeping secret's bad no matter what" is just hypocritical, there is no way in the world YOU don't have any secrets yourselves.
It's clear you are just doing damage control for a character that represents your values.
@@DDarkestKnight Oh no, the writers screwed up. By having Amber know Mark's a superhero, before Mark tells her, she's loses all sympathy. As long as Amber was ignorant of his hero status, its makes her reactions to his flaky behavior justifiable. She's hurt by his perceived lack of regard for her and her feelings.
But, by having her know why he's doing this, she comes off as manipulative. She's emotionally manipulating him to feel worse about the situation. And because she waits to say that she's known for sometime, she's been leading him on. Now, you could say that Mark's doing the same, but he's in a no-win situation. He either tries to defuse Amber's anger by coming clean but imperils his friends and family. Or he stays silent and protects that but watches his relationship with deteriorate. And coming clean with a secret of life-altering magnitude to win the trust of person who you've known for months, is not much of choice.
Plus, her reaction to him being forced to breaking the soup kitchen promise makes her look worse off, regardless. She never acknowledges that Mark had good reason for that: he was hospitalized. He was hurt. Doesn't know he's a hero; it's bad look because there's not much he can do about being injured. She's being utterly unreasonable at point. But KNOWING he's a hero and he's been hospitalized because he got his shit kicked in? It makes her look like a total bitch that doesn't seem care that he got hurt.
The writers' screw-up is that Mark stays sympathetic while Amber doesn't. Mark IS lying but he's has every reason too on top of being inexperienced being in a relationship and juggling larger-than-life expectations. He's not malicious and is trying his best, even as he makes mistakes due to his poor handling of the situation. Amber knows this but doesn't care, coming off as being toxic despite the writer's attempts to paint her in the right.
@@TresBS1 Her reaction to Mark *is still* justified because she's reacting to his bad actions, which have been garbage for most of their relationship.
The reason Amber was fed up with Mark is because she has *no idea* why he's doing this! Being a superhero is not an answer all explanation, he has to do some actual explaining. Preferably _before_ the breakup! He should feel bad because he waited until it was too late to say anything! She wasn't manipulating him, she wasn't leading him, she was cutting off a half assed attempt to win her over like he did two days before! Did you want to have this discussion in front of William, who I will remind she didn't know already knew Mark's secret?!
It's never been about protecting friends and family with Mark, those words have never come out his mouth! Mark wasn't in a no win situation, he had two options (explained to him by EVE): if he trusts her, tell her or if he doesn't, let her go. He went with option 3: drag her along until she was finally sick of him! It wasn't about winning her trust (because he failed at that for their entire relationship), it's about trusting her the same way she trusted him.
Amber literally gave him a second chance when he got out of the hospital, what are you talking about? She didn't even know why he was there, everyone just kept telling her he got hit by a truck! The trip to the college was for a new start, to show Amber that he was serious about their relationship. And he fucked up.
They are both sympathetic! They show Mark is inexperienced but he's also *not* trying. He does the same thing over and over and over again! Him not being malicious and their friends telling her not to give up on him is the only reason Amber held on to their relationship for so long. You think she's some all knowing being, she's a CIVILIAN! She doesn't know anything about what goes on with superheroes, whatever she does find out she had to detective her way through with no help from Mark! She gave him all the space, the understanding, the 2nd and 3rd chances because she trusted Mark. Like *this* is not difficult to understand but apparently the audience can barely understand shit now, they have to be spoon fed for the simplest thing!
Another difference between Amber and Lois, is in how they come across in those scenes. In my opinion, and one I have seen elsewhere, Amber comes across as being upset Mark is prioritizing saving people's lives over spending time with her. Lois is the one that gets written like she is hurt by the lack of trust Clark shows her by playing dumb and not sharing his secrets sooner. Like you said in the video, the build-up is better for Lois and the fact Lois and Clark have a back and forth is good development for both of them. Invincible is a show where the Hero gets disrespected by several characters for being an awkward nice guy the typical heroic virtues like trust and kindness. My Adventures With Superman so far seem to have a more believable reaction in that lies hurt, even if for a good/valid reason like Clark has.
There’s also the fact that, as mentioned in the video, Lois is visibly worried and upset that Clark was injured. She wasn’t just mad that he lied; she was mad that he lied while being visibly hurt and not trusting her enough to share his pain. As mentioned, episode 4 has Lois say she has trust issues cause her dad always lied to her, even about her mom’s sickness. Seeing Clark injured and lying about it, it probably brought Lois pain to that time with her dad. Everything Lois does is due to her own trauma and because she doesn’t want anything to happen to Clark, in the same way it happened to her mom.
@@mr.goblin6039yeah Clark looks like he's just had the shit kicked out of him (cause he has) and she tries to give him a chance to tell her himself before she gets mad. It's an understandable reaction she's already worried and upset. So her emotions are already running high when he lies to her again after clearly having been in some serious danger, which given what we know about her makes sense to set her off. I swear some people have negative media literacy if they think it portrays either of them in that scene as completely in the right
Lois isn't mad at Clark for not prioritizing her. She feels betrayed and hurt that despite everything that's happened, he still didn't see her as an equal or as someone who was supposedly worthy of knowing his secret.
I also feel the shows overall treatment of the issue is done a lot better in the adventures of superman. Clark lied yes but the show isn’t saying he’s wrong for feeling the way he felt both sides are valid in their feelings and the show let’s you know yes clark is wrong for not trusting them BUT he isn’t wrong for being afraid of what would happen when they find out he’s practically a alien. But in invincible the show is practically screaming marks in the wrong every one of marks friends tells him he was in the wrong the show itself is telling you mark’s wrong. Mark was told several times a secret identity is important not just for him but the people close to him as well cause once your enemies know who you are your loved ones become a HUGE target. So of course he wouldn’t be in a rush to tell someone he’s only been dating for a few months. It’s a lie yes but it’s a lie to keep the people he cares about safe.
SPOILERS
Also the big difference is later lois and clerk actually talk and reach a understanding of both sides. Meanwhile no matter what marks says Amber spins it and makes it about her and doesn’t even try to understand marks side and only seems to care when he’s basically beaten to a bloody pulp.
Lois and Clark really work here because the writers are aware that both sides have a point. They made sure to set up why both Clark wouldn't want to tell his secret (Lois' determination to tell the world, only recently becoming superman, still struggling to accept his identity) and why Lois would be mad he didn't tell her (Clark disappearing made her worry for his life, her father constantly lied to her, Clark told her off for lying to him in the first episode)
From an audience's perspective, it entirely makes sense why the situation would have to be forced for Clark to tell Lois and why it would make them both upset. The audience isn't expected to side with one character over the other, only hope that they can repair their relationship
PREEEEEACH. I don't want my babies to fight. T_T Ughh..
@@HighPhoenix1754lmao
EXACTLY the shows overall treatment of the issue is done a lot better in the adventures of superman. Clark lied yes but the show isn’t saying he’s wrong for feeling the way he felt both sides are valid in their feelings and the show let’s you know yes clark is wrong for not trusting them BUT he isn’t wrong for being afraid of what would happen when they find out he’s practically a alien. But in invincible the show is practically screaming marks in the wrong every one of marks friends tells him he was in the wrong the show itself is telling you mark’s wrong. Mark was told several times a secret identity is important not just for him but the people close to him as well cause once your enemies know who you are your loved ones become a HUGE target. So of course he wouldn’t be in a rush to tell someone he’s only been dating for a few months. It’s a lie yes but it’s a lie to keep the people he cares about safe.
SPOILERS
Also the big difference is later lois and clark actually talk and reach a understanding of both sides. Meanwhile no matter what marks says Amber spins it and makes it about her and doesn’t even try to understand marks side and only seems to care when he’s basically beaten to a bloody pulp.
@@senatorarmstrong4662 Yeah I totally agree! but I feel as though if I had to choose a side I think I would be with Clark. Logically speaking his way would keep them safe, because not telling them there's no chance of anything leaking if they don't know anything. If clark takes the chance and tells them, there's the chance she could tell. Even if Louis wouldn't tell, not telling leads to no possibility therefore is safest. Which tells his point in the video 6:09 I'd rather them be mad at me than hurt or killed, and for me to have to bury the pain because the pain would be far worse otherwise. I figured it goes, Louis point is fair like Clarks point in the beginning (lying prevents Louis from deciding the same way it prevented Clarks decision to tag along) but not right because if he told the truth it dimishes safety and gives superman a weakness, plus the possibility of exposing information about Superman is extremely risky. Not just to him, but the city would face the repercussions. In comparison, like previously mentioned Clark is not right for lying, a major part of a relationship even friendship is built on trust so to not tell them shows lack of faith in them but fair because that lack of faith keeps them from getting killed given the safety of keeping the secret. A similar reason for example, Peter in spider man no way home, would rather be forgotten by everyone vs everyone knowing. Even in the show the endearing moment *Spoiler* when Clark stepped in front of Louis to block the gun laser shots and Louis asked "how did you know you were bullet proof?" And Clark says "I didn't I just know you weren't" shows how much he cares about putting their safety first. Both equal in judgement but I think I would personally lean with Clarks decision if that makes sense. Idk, does anyone else feel the same?
@@micahjohnson9184 I completely understand I can name several examples of heroes that lost loved ones or people they cared about simply cause they knew the hero. Like many Jane, she's been put in danger more times than I can count not many people know spider-mans identity but they know MJ is tied to him. So when Clark was scared to tell them I instantly understood why I understand Lois has trauma and doesn't like being lied to but this isn't something he can just tell anyone causes one wrong move and that person becomes a weakness for him and a target for his enemies. Same for Mark people actually die in his show so that is 10x the reason he shouldn't just tell anyone. But I saw several comments saying he shoulda just told her anyway and that had me questioning if these people ever read or watched hero shows or books.
I'm just glad that Mark's primary love interest in the story is actually Eve cuz he has way better chemistry with her and that means that amber will probably be pushed into the background in season 2 hopefully
People complain about MJ in the Raimi trilogy, but at least she wasn’t mad when she found out Peter is Spider-Man. She just fell even more in love with him. No drama about him lying to her and keeping secrets. But this video did make me feel better about Lois
That’s just 1 thing, Sure MJ never got mad but there are a whole bunch of things wrong with her, sure it could be considered a flaw but it’s not really resolved. Rami MJ is honestly awful, In the comics she was the same way but it was a flaw so it ended up changing later, that didn’t happen with the rami trilogy.
I think MJ's real problems in the Rami trilogy stem from the fact that she's a terrible person and the writers never address it
@@voidedabyss5614in the old comics back when peter and Mj are married she's supportive and also shot Green Goblin and beat the shit out of chameleon and well written unlike modern comic mj
MJ was literally kissing every man inthe movie .
one thing to note is that Amber was irrationally mad. yes, it is ok to be mad at someone for lying but when that person lies to save a life, you give them a pass. Lois is mad at multiple things. she is mad at the lies, mad that Clark calls her on her lies but he lies to her, mad because her father used to lie to her, and most importantly she is mad that he is getting hurt. she is not mad he is Superman, she is mad he gets hurt and she can`t help him. this is the most important, plus this is the 1 season and it looks like they will address this immediately.
But here is the thing. Amber is made for multiple reasons. She is made for Mark lying. She is made at Mark for Breaking his promise that was meant to save the relationship. And she was mad at mark beot being absent in the relationship and taking fro the relationship without giving anything back. This made Amber feel stupid and unimportant in a relationship which being a superhero is not justification for being a bad partner
@@mangamandrewAnd pray tell, what was the promise Mark broke to save the relationship?
Are you perhaps, talking about the part where Mark left her because his best friend was centimetres away from death?
Are you saying that Amber considers Mark's promise to her so much more important than his best friend's LIFE that she expects him to stand by and do nothing, and that was the right thing to do for her? Because... Yeah, the writers seem to agree and that's why everybody hates it, because it's a HORRIBLE motivation that clearly wasn't thought through.
@@mangamandrew Hate to say it, but she is stupid and important.
The comic already did this better because it all checks out if she doesn't know, but when she learns about it, she's excited and understands. And they do eventually break up about it, but it's not because she's being an absolute bitch and gaslighting the poor bastard when she knows whats up.
The probably is her already knowing just makes her a mega bitch and screws the entire dilemma. Like she gets mad at Mark for ghosting at the college when attacked, when he's Invincible and she knows he's invincible who immediately showed up and threw hands with the cyborg zombie.
ua-cam.com/video/kYFRIl67AFg/v-deo.html sure man
@@matthewbibby8921 Mark made the promise to “do better.” That promises was initially broken when he got destroyed by battle beast and again when he just lies to Amber at the robot attack.
And let’s talk about that. Mark literally saw multiple people almost get attacked and hesitated to fight until someone he cares about was in danger so he isn’t completely out of the clear.
And the promise had nothing to do with William’s life. Mark did not need to lie on that moment at all. If anything, she calls out to Mark to do something and Mark literally hesitate when he could do more.
The issue is that people tie in Mark being a hero to why Amber is made at him but that’s not the case. Mark did not need to constantly lie to Amber. Being a hero is not an excuse for being a bad partner. The fact Mark did not trust Amber and made her feel stupid and unimportant in the relationship are not excusable by being a hero because you can be a hero without making you partner feel bad hat way.
Big difference summed up in one scene each.
Lois knows Clark is Superman, and is instantly concerned if he is ok first and foremost when he comes back.
Amber knows Mark is Invincible, yet shits on him for leaving despite witnessing the fight.
Exactly
Does Amber really consder herself more important than the city or whatever was n thee line here?
Even just one live saved or one harm prevented is more important than her.
@@jasperzanovich2504 "I! WORK! AT A SOUP KITCHEN, MARK! A SOUP KITCHEN!!!" - someone who I would never want anything to do with, ever again.
@@donutbevil9669 Yeah, sounds like she only works there because of how people perceive her. You are not supposed to do charity for the praise, that's not charity.
Lois is such a breath of fresh air. She's the strong-woman that is sometimes portrayed in media, but what makes her realistic and likable is the fact that she doesn't comment on the fact that she's being a strong woman, she just is one, and she isn't trash-talking the men she knows while she does it (yeah she gets mad at Clark but that's not the same thing as degrading him over nothing).
On a point to Lois its worth noting that Clark in the first episode had a speech over the importance of not lying that Lois actually followed.
Then she finds out Clark has been lying to her for months and only snaps after he lied after it became pretty damn apparent that she knows. That being said its a situation where both sides are correct.
Just curious, would this version of Lois be the same if she interacts with other superheroes if she interacts with them in their secret identity and "lying" to her even though they're keeping their identity secure, like Batman (who is the last person for anyone to know his identity)?
@@magnaknight9252Is Batman/Bruce her coworker? And does he make a point about how being honest is important ever since they First met?
@@nicholassgobero No, I meant in some incarcerations, Lois has a relationship with Bruce.
We’re given no reason to believe that they’ve known each other longer than one month (maybe two) at best, and her lie put her colleagues careers at risk. Clark’s lie is to protect his own well being and that of his family, in no way are these two situations the same
@@marlonfrancis7214 Exactly. Lois did it for a selfish reason, to boost her career and want to be a reporter instead of an intern.
The show is called my adventures with superman. Lois and jimmy are clearly the my in this. Of course they are going to reconcile, probably in the next episode where they team up and save jimmy. Who is going to be PISSED that both his friends ditched him on squach day.
I really like how, in the latest episode, Jimmy Olsen just cuts Clark right off by telling him he's known about him being Superman since, like, their freshman year in college because he ripped the door handle off and then tried to play it off as the screws being loose. He let Clark keep his secret because it felt personal to him, and he felt like Clark would eventually tell him when the time was right - on Clark's terms. It's kind of bizarre how the most disliked character on the show shows the most mature attitude about the situation.
That said, I don't think Lois was in the wrong at all, just in the wrong headspace. She clearly had a thing for lying due to her father, and every time Clark tried to open up about his being Superman, she would conflate how Superman hiding something is just the worst, causing Clark to back off very quickly as he clearly doesn't want to be on Lois' bad side as he really likes her at this point. Both Clark and Lois are wrong in the situation, causing undue amounts of stress for both - Lois, because she's such a determined investigator, and Clark who just doesn't want to have Lois dig too deeply and discover he's been hiding this big secret from her; the BIGGEST of secrets from her, and due to his feelings just can't cope with the situation multiple times whenever he tries to tell her.
So you go Jimmy Olsen. You didn't let those stupid screws fool you for a second.
EDIT: Oh shit, I just figured out who that Army General is at 7:35. I feel so freaking stupid. /facepalm I feel like Jimmy Olsen is smarter than me and that's just downright depressing.
how is clark in the wrong for keeping his secret a secret, especially from a person who threatened to expose superman right to his face?
@@judoka. the thought process is by keeping this secret it is causing harm to their relationship.
@@mwperk02 it’s only causing harm to lois because lois hasn’t dealt with her personal issues about people keeping secrets from her.
she needs to realize that she’s not obligated to know everyone’s secrets just because of what happened to her in the past. that’s a problem that SHE needs to fix, not clark, and clark is not in the wrong for keeping HIS secret a secret, especially if that secret is protecting the people he cares about.
Episode 6 has a resolution to their fight and it’s a helps it a lot as well. Lois kind of implied she might have felt Clark was just lying about his feelings or using her as a cover, most likely because of her poor relationship with her father who must have done similar since we know he lied a lot. And Clark admits how afraid he is about who he is and how people will react. Jimmys confession to that really helps the narrative as showing they both care about Clark, and it doesn’t matter what he is. With their fight, both Clark and Lois had messed up and had a reasoning behind it all, and we see them admit to those faults and grow
My only problem with the scene is when she compared a secret to lying, cause everyone has a secret side they don't want to show anyone or if they do they really trust them. I understand she's mad he didn't tell her but if you spend the time threatening to expose him through the news he's gonna be hesitant
he DID lie tho, bro said he was goin for bagels and messed up shaving 💀
"My only problem with the scene is when she compared a secret to lying, cause everyone has a secret side they don't want to show anyone or if they do they really trust them." - But it all has a similar effect in that it is deceiving someone. Also, he has lied to her every time he pretends that he and Superman are separate people.
Even without Lois’s issues with her dad, the two of them were flirting, and fast approaching a relationship, and there’s some things that could be taken quite badly (even though we know Clark is great).
I just rewatched episode two, and Clark saying he knew Lois would find Superman again, and then buttering her up with compliments… That can EASILY be suspected in retrospect as him trying to take advantage of the situation to seduce Lois.
Again, Clark is great. We know he was sincere. Lois could start doubting that.
There’s a lot to unpack when you step back, set aside our perspective as the audience, and isolate Lois’s perspective of all past interactions with Clark.
The jumping off the building bit IS absurd, but at that point, she was 100% convinced he was Superman. In her mind, the only danger was him letting her die, which I doubt she thought was even a possibility.
she was not 100% sure he was superman she was 99% sure he was superman I know it's a thing for Lois to jump off buildings like miles morales but goddamn bruh imagine if she was wrong
@@andrei283 At THAT point I'm saying 100% sure in her mind. Any doubt she had was gone after the events in the episode (as early as him tossing the weight one-handed and damaging the lockers).
I say this because I don't think even Lois would've made that jump if she wasn't that confident.
(The "bruh imagine if she was wrong" point is perfectly valid. I speak only of what I believe she believed in that moment.)
@@danshive4017 in all honesty I believe she did think that she was 100% sure he was superman at that point due to everything lining up
The problem with Amber is that the pay-off does not match the set up.
Amber gets mad about Mark not being there for her, which is reasonable. Then Eve talks to her about how Mark is actually a great guy and deserves a second shot. He gets the second shot, disappears again and this time pretty much leaving her for dead. Everything to that point is completely fine.
But once Marks reveals his identity, and she has all the context, such as Mark being absent because he was saving the world, Eve's words being true, Mark has a lot of weight to carry, and he never left her for dead, he was straight up fighting the threat to save everyone; her reaction changes. The writers wanted Amber to look smart, witty, the gal who figured it all out days ago, so they put this "I knew it" line that flips the context. Thing is, when you flip the context it makes no sense for her to be mad that he was absent.
Lois is consistent. She was mad that Clark was lying and kept being mad about that. It's not a problem that her reason for being mad is not rightful, Clark is in the right, he had to keep it a secret and he can't exactly trust every flirt with his secret identity. Same applies to Mark. If Amber was still mad and said "Ok, sure, that explains it but I never signed up to date a super hero" that would have been fine. Instead she comes out as bitch because she knew WHY he was doing all of that and was still giving him a hard time for things she claims she doesn't care about.
There is also a secondary problem, but the way they wrote her lines and demeanor, she just comes off as a bitch every time. I don't know if the writers were trying to overcompensate the fact she was one of the few non-super characters in the show, but she can't say more than two words without coming off as having an ego bigger than the Earth itself. Even at the very end, when Eve, the girl who guided him through being a super hero and the last person to see him before he had to fight his own father, and Mark's life long best friend, come see Mark, not only she is magically already there (which, sure, Mark's ex who didn't care if he was getting killed or not because he was 5min late now is so worried she somehow got to him before everyone else), but she is completely surprised that they both knowing and let's out the bitchiest "They know?". Amber just has this aura that makes you wish she was ran over by a truck.
I never understood why Mark got so much shit for his relationship with Amber, but almost none for almost letting William and his boyfriend die. William genuinly has good reason to be upset!
Because he constantly lied to her, made a promise he broke immediately, and made his partner feel stupid and unimportant in a relationship, and continued a relationship with some he could not trust with a secret actively killing the relationship.
@@mangamandrewjust like amber
@@vincentlucario5450 Amber did not lie. She did not make Mark feel stupid and unimportant. She never broke a prime and did not try to continue a failing relationship
A major thing about Amber is her selfishness by the time of college fight she knew that Mark was a hero and still got angry at Mark for choosing to be a hero over staying with her by contrast Lois never states she's angry at Clark being a hero just the lying heck the first time she see him after a fight she's full of concern for his wellbeing.
Isn't most of the invisible characters kinda assholes thugh?
I absolutely despised the way Twitter tried to defend Amber with, "if you dont like her its because you're racist."
Amber was toxic as hell, treated Mark like shit when she already knew, and then he does finally tell her ahe just blows him off. Really hope she doesn't return in Season 2
She will return….
Spoilers
She won’t remain his girl for long tho.
I honestly didn’t mind Amber being angry with Mark at first because she was honestly making valid points. However when it was revealed she KNEW he was a super hero the entire time I audibly called her a cunt lol. If they didn’t try to make her so smart and so perceptive and just let her be surprised by the fact he’s a super hero it would have been a predictable end but it would have made the most sense.
@@PopeDuwangyou don’t know that
@@dforman4770
Prob is that marysues know everything already. Shes textbook marysue down to everyone loving her and agreeing with her.
@@dforman4770 Yeah, if they had cut that part out it would make more sense for Amber to be mad. That one scene ruins her character.
in a way, Clarke having a very legitimate reason to keep his secret from Lois, specifically, makes the fact that he actually *did* keep the secret more legitimately hurtful to her. For Amber, it's just the very standard "this is a big secret and I can't tell someone unless I can trust them to keep it for the rest of their life" type deal that secret identities always have. For Clarke, he's basically telling Lois to her face "I think you are the type of person who might immediately sacrifice our relationship and my well-being to selfishly further your own career."
Given what he knows of her and what she's said to him, that's perfectly sensible reasoning. But finding out that someone who you consider to be a friend, maybe more than that, thinks so poorly of your character is the kind of shock that's very understandable for someone to get emotional over. With time and considering others' perspectives, someone can come to understand how their own actions caused people to perceive them so harshly. But in the moment it will feel more like a betrayal (on top of the betrayal of him lying to her face previously), and cutting off a relationship in that moment makes prefect sense for a character to do.
Simply put, Lois’s reaction is justified because she’s concerned about Clark and has valid reason to hate being deceived. Amber’s reaction is unwarranted because even though she knows why mark is lying to her she is only concerned about herself without justification and in turn LYING TO MARK.
And would’ve cheated on mark if the guy was single at that party I think they’re going to break up eventually and he’s going to date Atom eve or something
Im not sure you can justify JUMPING OUT OF A BUILDING for someone not wanting to tell you a secret, i could understand she can get angry but her behaviour there was very manipulative.
@@Bike-chan People aren't say Lois is 100% in the right. They're saying they can understand her side, and that's the beauty. It's one sided like it is in Invincible
@@bwareist but he just said her reaction was justified, jumping out of a building is just an excesive reaction to do in order to force someone to tell you a secret.
@@Bike-chan first off the video already explained that it was a reference that lois always jumps off buildings,second that is a flaw of her character, the word justified is just within you, the word common sense is subjective and can only be applied to a group of people, lois threw herself because she trusted clark, its clear she had no ill intentions, in fact she was concened about his safety after seeing his injuries and want t confirm her doubts, in no way does it make it the best choice she could make but i find it beautiful that she does trust him and has her argument to why she would jump off
I swear people are just crying because it's an end of episode stinger. Next episode, they're gonna team up and re-bond over their friendship with Jimmy. People just aren't used to weekly releases anymore
Facts
Good news, you're right and they did.
@@KarateGirl999 Goddamn I'm so right all the time
I think why it works better for Lois is also because it happened so early in the shows run meaning we don’t have to put up with the liar revealed plot line for very long and thous not falling into such a common and misused trope so we can see more of their relationship to evolve throughout the show more smoothly
Funny enough none of the other DC animated Superman show pulled a liar reveal trope. STAS it was when Lois was in the hospital and its was just her saying clark, and supes saying yes. In the modern DC it was right before he was killed by doomsday. No liar reveal drama
@@triggerfairy4070 Maybe, but this is a very different universe from those ones. Not to mention that due to Invincible people were getting worried from what I was seeing. Not to mention that Lois figured it out all her own, and since she found out much earlier than those to which to me just allows for a more natural relationship for them
@@hyperdreamer9483 normally id say S1 supes secret identity is revealed to lois is too early. However since this show is more of an ensemble and not just supes doing supes stuff I dont mind the early reveal.
@@triggerfairy4070 Yeah it’s more a team effort here Lois and Jimmy by his side to help him as a team, especially since this version of Superman not as indestructible as others
Lois didn't persue another dude the minute she suspected Clark of lying about his identity as Superman. Lois also stated why she was mad and called him out for lying when she knew he was Superman, while she was confronting him about being Superman. Amber on the other hand, knew mark was Invincible, gave him grief for "disappearing" when she new exactly where he was the entire time, never explaining why she was mad outside of "you disappeared, where were you?" So Mark had NO IDEA she was mad about him lying about where he was, because she never confronted him about being Invincible. She then sought out male attention from someone else while claiming to be single when she hadn't officially ended it with Mark, aka, cheating. Then, when Mark reveals his identity to let her know, he was there the whole time and had in fact protected her to relieve her anger, she reveals that she knew the whole time, and thus had no reason to be mad. So, really, she was looking for an excuse to leave and cheat on mark! Mark did nothing wrong and Amber is a piece of shit. Lois and Amber are not the same, and are not even mad about the same things. Lois after revealing that she knew he was Superman was mad at him for lying about being Superman after she said she knew. She didn't persue another dude, she didn't hide the fact that she knew and act like he was in the wrong for maintaining his secret identity. Lois, although isn't in the right, isn't a piece of shit. You can be wrong, without being a horrible person.
Lois Lane has always been tomboyish, smart and independent. To the point that she nearly discovers Superman's identity in the comics so many times.
If amber's side was shown then it would still be toxic but actually work. Lois is pretty damn well done, showing both sides and giving you as much information as you need as a viewer. Both are good characters, one is well done and the other is not. Lois has a full arc so far, amber had the foundation for a similarly good arc with figuring it out, breaking up then getting back together, it just wasn't fully displayed and leaves a lot of important character moments out of the show, which is weird, cause invincible adds scenes like rex cheating on eve in, a scene that was off pannel in the original comic. So adding in that scene makes the lacking amber content even more perplexing
Exactly. This really became clear to me when I rewatched Invincible for this video. Amber had a good start and got run into the ground; I’m hoping they don’t do that to Lois.
Is Amber really a good character? Sure she checks all the zoomer "good person" checkboxes, but she lies and gaslights all because she thinks her feelings are more important than other people's lives. Either that or she's not emotionally intelligent enough to see things from Mark's perspective. Honestly, I hate her so much.
amber's public freakout would've been so well written if as soon as they were alone together and he confessed, she once again drops that she's known for awhile, but actually forgives him like a rational person and that was just her covering for his secret identity.
@@TheDarkLasombragood character is different from an understanding character with oerfect morals
She had potential to be decent side character
@@TheDarkLasombragood character ≠ good person she's a good character because she ticks all the "good person" boxes, but is still a shitty person. It sets up nicely for a positive arc of her improving or a negative arc of her doubling down on the hypocrisy.
Tbh I like the the "classic lois move" handled in this iteration. Usually it's solved by clark somehow still managed to turn into superman outfit before saving her. But if clark really in love with lois (and being bumbling boy scout he is) of course he wouldn't have enough time during the miliseconds to even worry about identity problem. Because that's what you would do when your loved one is seconds away from death, you stopped thinking about anything else and just hurry to save them. Obviously I'm not endorsing what she did, and I love clark rightfully barks at her, "you jumped off a roof! I don't know what to think!" because witnessing your loved one attempts almost sewer side for whatever reason is never not traumatic.
Point is, they would have to put this signature move anyway and I'm glad it's in precisely midway of the first season, and handled in the most humane, even heart touching way. Now we can move on from that.
And like, come on people, the next episode teaser clearly shows that whether they'd be back together again or not, they'd still be good friends. We'll have our three musketeers back no matter what
I mean he would have enough time to change because he's done some crazy things in the comics but I do understand what your saying
" he wouldn't have enough time during the miliseconds"
That's because this Superman/Clark is a little bit nerfed compared to some of the other iterations.
He got hurt by being flung into a steel wall by giant robots and a pair of hot swords. That sort of thing wouldn't have phased other versions of Superman.
Even if he quickly suited up and he put her down, she would have noticed that Clark wasn't on the roof lol
@@G-LukeJA from halfway down the building?
@nairda55555 I mean he has to put her back on the roof as superman right?
Lois never ever told Clark she wants him to stop saving lives so he can spend time with her, that's what Amber did. The problem with Amber is that she never appreciated or recognized that Mark did the right thing despite not spending time with her.
Lois is just mad at Clark because while his secrets are his own, she hated that he still kept lying to her EVEN when she made it clear she knows he isn't telling the truth. Then, she got mad when Clark believed that their friendship would not be enough to stop Lois from publishing his secrets. Lois would never do that to him since she cares about him, she didn't find out he was Clark until recently.
There is also Lois's father, they very clearly set up how he wasn't kind or sympathetic to her. He never listened to her issues or even supported her ideas. She likes Clark because he was the opposite of him, but this entire delimena opened some old wounds.
Not all secrets are the same and the secret identity of a superhero is big one. Its not something you can just tell to anyone given the risk; especially if the superhero in question has a family he or she needs to protect.
You never know who is who. For years everyone thought that omni-man was a hero but look at how things ended. A huge amount of trust needs to be earned even among friends and even family.
The difference is that Lois is actually a likeable character for the audience because for us she's fun and chaotic and selfish and ambitious, like a better written Rachel Berry- there's just no real reason why Clark likes her. Her relationship with him thus far is exactly like the one she has with her boss- she lies to them, manipulates them and ignores what they want in favor of her own ego and agenda, never apologizes unless she gets caught or gets what she wants, they forgive her instantly and she does it all over again with zero consequences. In that way she's more of a main character than Clark- which makes sense, given the show is called My adventures with superman indicating that the main character is not Clark. We always know what Lois is doing and almost always view incidents from her perspective, and she typically gets the plot moving. She's the main character, so her flaws are way more forgivable because we know she'll grow out of it much like Clark will grow into being Superman and Mark will grow into being Invincible.
Where as Amber is very clearly not meant to be with Mark- the show has clearly set it up to be him and Eve, which is consistent with the comics, which is strike one for people not liking Amber because she's already in the way so we're waiting for the moment when she's gone and true love can begin. She constantly holds it against him that he is a superhero, and up until the end it's because she doesn't know (we'll touch on that later tho) but we as the audience do so we're watching like "girl he's saving the world! Get over yourself!" which is strike two for her. And then, and then, there's the infamous break up scene where we find out that she's known "for a while" that he's a hero, which is the third strike and wipes out any chance at anyone liking her, because it MAKES. NO. SENSE!!! Not because it's unrealistic that she'd figure it out because it does make sense since he's not good at hiding it. But because none of her actions make sense if she knows Mark is Invincible. She doesn't say when, but I'm guessing she figured it out around the time he got put in the ICU by Beast. She definitely knew at the college visit. Where she broke up with him because he abandoned them despite the fact that she knows he saved their lives!! It's the work of an insane person!! Is she in cahoots with Omniman to turn Mark into a true Viltrumite by crushing his heart?
But they weren't done. Nope she gets a strike four, because she goes to him when his dad tried to beat the Viltrumite out of him and kisses him and takes him back. What? Literally why. I can understand her coming because she cares and she still loves him, but why would she want him back? Literally nothing she had a problem with has changed. In fact, all of the problems she had before are about to become way worse. And why does he want her back? He just sort of accepts it, so maybe it was the pain meds.
Currently, I read Amber as a true narcissist. Some people are genuinely just like that. All of her actions point towards her being narcissistic and being concerned with everyone seeing her as a badass and as a caring soul. Which is why I think she goes to the soup kitchen and why she insists that Mark be there, too. In a way, her forcing Mark to go to the soup kitchen signals that she wants to be seen dating someone who seems to care about helping people; the way he handles his duties as a superhero makes him look like a coward to anyone not aware of his dual identity. Her criticizing him lying to her about identity makes her feel both untrusted and damages her views of herself. It's been a while since I've seen the show, but do we ever see her enjoying her time in the kitchen? I think I only remember her wondering where Mark is, rather than being more concerned with the people she's supposed to be helping (typically, that's how volunteers usually behave; their own life and self image is low on their priority list, especially on duty, and they usually have relationships with those they're helping).
If the writers stay consistent with her hypocrisy and narcissism, I can imagine a very satisfying arc for Mark where he has to realize he was being abused to an extent and to move past his misplaced feelings for Amber. If the writers keep pushing this romance and have Amber "forgive" Mark (though he never did anything to forgive, especially according to her own self admitted knowledge), then it'll leave a very sour taste in my mouth.
Sometimes it's just a physical attraction that grows into something more wholesome.
@@charles3840if Amber were a real character in the show you’d be right- but as a seasoned writer I know a “1 dimensional bad bf/gf obstacle to real love story” character when I see one and that’s what she is. She’s a step above Eve’s irrelevant ex and only because she sticks around longer.
You can tell because as long as she’s here we never really know anything about her- just like Mark’s best friend. Anything we find out is brought up and never mentioned again, she experiences no character growth and has no true relevance to the plot outside of her relationship with Mark, which as we’ve seen it is only her being mad at him or being stood up.
Take it back to when we first meet Amber in a scene that seems to be establishing her as a character. Except none of it matters or comes up again- we never hear about the bully, the kid she protected, why, what the outcome of the entire thing is- because it was actually a scene to show why Mark likes her. In fact the next time we hear from the bully it’s in a standoff with Mark, cause even he knows Amber is too one dimensional to get him any screen time. All of of her scenes are like that- they only serve the purpose of furthering Mark’s storyline. We find out that she volunteers at a soup kitchen just to show how close Mark was when he was getting beat to a pulp but none of it matters cause it’s never brought up again, so the only point was to show Mark failing. Meeting her mom was so important that it never comes up again and they never meet and we don’t even see the woman.
I always find it lazy writing when writers use characters like this, because you can have a normal relationship that just doesn’t work out. It doesn’t have to be that the person is a massive douche bag or one a dimensional snooze fest.
It's weird to me how Amber figured Mark out because in the comics it made way more sense and was a sweet moment.
@@thesourpatchkidd579also let's not forger important part: COMIC ACTUALLY SUBVERTED THAT TROPE. The comic avoided that bs and had really good arc of why their relationship can't work out while having Debbie as mirror to what it does to the mind. And it was unique and compelling that way, with no villains. But I guess show is too CW drama brained to get that nuance.
People complain non stop about characters who have no nuance or flaws. Then when a character has them or makes mistakes, or does things that are not correct they flip
The fuck out and cook up any reason for why the character is poorly written for doing something not objectively correct within context.
As I was watching this I realized something too. When Mark said he went to get help for an alibi Amber immediately got angry saying that he abandoned her. When Clark did the same thing, Lois was relieved that he was ok and happy that he had done so. Also Amber KNEW that Mark was the hero who stepped in.
Lois didn't know Clark was Superman and was just relieved that everyone was ok.
And even if she didn't somehow already know he was a superhero, just a teenage guy, what did she expect a normal, young person to do against superhuman zombie cyborgs that can easily tear through steel and concrete.
Lois: "So the guy I like was AWOL because he was saving literally thousands of lives. Understandable."
Amber: "How dare he miss date night to save thousands of lives and not trust me enough to say anything while getting his ass kicked physically and mentally! I'll give him mixed signals and a cold shoulder, that seems fair."
Folks, this deep in "My Adventures with Superman" IMHO it's clear that Lois cares deeply for Clark. So in analyzing her relationship with him, maybe we should bear in mind that prior to their quarrel Clark had been in a big fight with Slade and what looks to be mechs from Project Cadmus, which looks to be helmed by DC's favorite(?) ruthless covert ops boss Amanda Waller and Lois' own father Gen. Sam Lane.
And in that fight, Slade NEARLY TOOK CLARK'S HEAD OFF with his swords.
At this point, Clark is still climbing a steep learning curve with regard to his powers, and yet is already having to face people who can outright KILL him despite said powers. Is it any wonder Lois is distraught over Clark's not opening up to her, when every time he goes into action as Superman could be his last?
@bananarama1425 And that's the difference. It's shown here, that first and foremost, her concern is Clark's well-being.
And if you think about it, the Robot Fight in episode..2? Now that she KNOWS that was him, she'd also be dealing with the fact that he could have DIED there if it weren't for her intervention.
Great video bro! My jaw dropped during the rooftop scene. Like Lois literally tells Clark not to like to her anymore and then he literally lies TWICE in quick succession. Obviously she shouldn’t have jumped off the roof but clearly putting herself in danger was the only way that Clark would have told her what was really going on. Which is why I do disagree a little bit with your statement towards the end of the video that everything needs to make logical sense in a story. Characters are reflections of us as humans, and sometimes we do stupid things in the moment without thinking. I think the biggest issue with amber is NONE of her actions make sense even when looked at through the lens of something emotional done in the moment.
I think it is very odd that people are watching the rooftop scene and taking one side over the other. Like both Clark and Lois have completely valid reasons to be feeling the emotions that they are feeling. Clark and Lois feel like two people having a conversation, the stuff in invincible is contrived and is drama for the sake of drama. It makes you wonder what these twitter peoples REAL LIFE relationships are like 💀
Great video, you deserve more views!
I mean, i can understand louis getting angry at him but you just don't do something that dangerous to force someone into telling you a secret.
Amber not only got a race swap...she got a personality swap. Basically it's an entirely new character
Yep, my thoughts exactly and I hate it. The Comic Version of Amber was not only white, she was actually a pretty sweet person.
@@kinghyperheart1571 That reads weird as hell lol. I'm probably not getting you but would her staying white would be an improvement?
Well normally I don't want race to have to be important, but there's a trend going on that has to be addressed. What I'm saying is:
1. Don't change the race of a pre-established character, it isn't necessary at all, race shouldn't be important in a character. The writing needs to be good first, then should just happen to be that color from the conception. They changed Amber's race unnecessarily, when the writing was fine, and she just happened to be white. If the writing is fine, and being white is okay, then why change it?
and 2, if you're going to change BOTH the writing AND the race of a character, DON'T make the character horrible AND re-enforces negative stereotypes about black people. At the very least have them be bad as a character be they white or black from the start. Don't take a character who is good and just so happens to be white and change them into a terrible person who just so happens to be black.
In short, my point is if you're going to make a character who is insufferable and just so happens to be black, don't take a pre-established well written character with a different race and transform that character into something they're not. make your own horrible character that doesn't drag down the already established character and tarnish their legacy. The race change is just unnecessary design-wise and is salt in the wounds.
Lois is angry because she was lied to, repeatedly, by Clark despite both of them knowing he's lying. She's got issues with being lied to because of her father.
Amber is supposed to be written in the same way, but the fact that she knew he was Invincible, and STILL acted the way she did makes her sound like she's complaining because he wasn't her priority.
I feel like people were too busy salivating in the mouth to listen to anything said during the stairwell scene, that scene put everything into context but everyone ive seen talk bad about Lois doesnt even recall her mentioning her dad like wtf
Also lois' reply that clark shouldve known shed never expose him is valid. She thought superman was some random guy keeping secrets and as a reporter its her job to learn to truth. But he shouldve know she'd not go behind his back if she knew it was him. It shows he doesnt trust her enough and thinks of her in a more negative way than she is
I also think it demonstrates Clark’s general fear about his powers. He didn’t exactly embrace them in this show, so he’s more on edge about anything concerning Superman in general.
Clark just met this girl, the attraction they share is just surface level. Why would he think that he could trust this woman when his first impression of Lois is that she is lying/manipulative coworkers that’s will to do anything in order to get what she wants, even if it’s immoral.
Trusting Lois is stupid, and her emotional baggage is not enough of a reason to tell her anything. This crazy woman was getting mad a Clark’s Superman persona for not telling her his secrets, when her motivation was to trick him into spilling his guts and tell the world his secrets even though she new it would hurt him. For Clark to even consider telling Lois anything, when at best they have only been “friends” for a few days, tells me he’s too horny to think properly.
It’s like watch man befriend a thief and think that because their friends the thief would never steal from him.
@@Salazar.945 dude, they're dating and shared intimate moments, they're far beyond friends with surface level attraction.
And it's her JOB to uncover secrets. That's like saying the x files people shouldn't investigate aliens cause it can expose and endanger them. Obviously if she learned it was Clark, and had a talk, she'd learn he was being honest and didn't have any secrets to expose, she wouldn't say his name or his family. If he was just some random guy and she found out he was an alien sent to defend earth from the mole people, that's a secret to expose, not a personal one that'd harm him
@@Salazar.945 she’s his coworker and they’ve been in dangerous situations before and had each other’s back. Not only that, they’ve been with each other for like a month at least, not a few days.
Maybe a month is too short for you, but it’s their relationship and not yours lol. Being in dangerous situations also bring ppl closer to one another
@@ma.2089 sorry, but in the real world your coworkers aren’t your friends. This is why everyone and their mom tells people that when your entering in the work force it a general rule to not trust anybody with personal information.
Clark’s secret identity is not a superficial thing. knowledge about what he can do can have a huge affects on his life. It’s equivalent to his a credit information, social security number, his exact home address of his parents and his own.
Telling a coworker after a month hanging out with them, is not, nor will it ever be justification for telling them important information like this. Especially when the world finding out that he’s Superman can negatively effect his parents, and Clark specifically came to Metropolis so his choice to use his powers to help people wouldn’t effect them. No amount of dangerous situations together can fix this, especially when Clark never wanted to be involved with said danger in the beginning, and later expresses his displeasure of Lois seeking out said danger.
Anyone who tell their coworkers stuff like this, does so at their own peril. And that’s fine, people can take whatever risks they want. But don’t argue that those unnecessary risks are smart.
Clark should have just used his super speed to change, save Lois, change back, deny all accusation, be made at Lois for risking her life just to make a point, then leave. But hey, that not the story the writers wanted to tell.
I hate how everyone compares Lois to Amber
Amber is just an awful person who the writers clearly try to make out like a justified and perfect human being. Even though she is just the worst girlfriend to Mark, the worst friend to anybody and….The Worst!
Lois on the other hand has some traits similar, the writers don’t try to justify them as right. Because they know Lois is in the wrong and we know she’s in the wrong but compared to Amber we are given time to like Lois and understand her. The writers of Invincible just expect us to like Amber….Because Amber!
I think the writers were making her out to be good cuz in the original comic she was actually better, and they ruined her in the animation but kept the fact she was “in the right”.
@@ma.2089 You mean Amber or Lois
Because the writers are writing Lois as flawed
You are referring to Amber right?
@ma.2089 Yeah they fucked up her character big time.
Not because she black.
@@High-Pie_Chop Yeah, because Amber is just the worst
Like if I had met her personally, then she’d be fifth place. I have a lot of people I despise worse than her
@confusingzark Again, but they know this. The writers of Invincible try to make Amber out like she was in the right 24/7 whereas Lois is clearly in the wrong in a lot of her scenes and the writers know this
I mean, she is a flawed character that is written as flawed whereas Amber is just an awful human being written as flawless
The key difference here is that while Invincible portrays Amber as absolutely in the right and basically takes her side (having all the characters chastise Mark for being stupid without even one moment of reflection for how Amber could be in the wrong), My Adventures with Superman portrays Lois’s obsessiveness, anger, and distrust as character flaws. She hangs up the phone when her dad tried to call her, indicating she has some deep and complex familial issues, her actions repeatedly land her in trouble, and most important of all, the pitfalls of her character are pointed out and she has to apologize at times.
Of course, it’s quite possible that the writers will drop the ball and end up making Lois insufferable, but thus far, it seems like Lois is going on an arc in which she needs to overcome her obsessive need to uncover all secrets and inability to trust.
Coming back to this after the latest episode with the two's reconciliation, I think something important to consider is how Lois starts to soften up to Clark after he actually gets a chance to explain _his_ side of the story, assuaging her worries that _everything_ between them was a lie, and hearing his main reasons for keeping his dual identity a secret from them out of a desire to not be seen as different. She and Jimmy are pretty clearly understanding of that and reassure him that him being who he is doesn't change anything. They meet the problem on _his_ level and don't cast him down for feeling that way. I've seen a couple accusations that the episodes are trying to pitch Clark as being in the wrong, but frankly I really don't see it. And even if Lois doesn't say word for word out loud "I'm sorry for going so hard on you", I think how her behavior shifts and how she starts treating Clark after starting to hear him out speaks a good deal to her willing to let go of whatever negative feelings she had towards him for it all.
And really, if people wanna see the Lois building jump get formally addressed even beyond her reconciliation with Clark, what the show could do is lump it in with a general addressing of her habit of doing reckless stuff in pursuit of her goals. Lois's determination to get the truth at any cost, even potentially her life, is simultaneously one of her biggest strengths and one of her biggest self-hinderences, so I think there's still plenty of room for her to get development and growth on that general character aspect.
Honestly to me the reason it works with Lois and no Amber can be summarized simply:
With Lois, we actually *see* her figure it out, and like you explained, the progression of her feelings and reaction is logical. Unlike Amber who figures it all out *offscreen* and her reactions make less sense because it doesn't match
But her reaction isn’t logical, her feelings are, sure. But the reaction of “I’m gonna force him to tell me by jumping off this building” is batshit insane when she could have just left it alone… or literally done anything else
@@lwandilengubane9638but she did everything else and when confronted about scars and how it happened Clark still tried to downplay it, which is honestly make Lois outburst pretty justified in my book.
@@mikhaelgribkov4117 Not really. It's pretty much none of her business unless Clark tells her himself.
@@gameguy1337I mean, if you found out that someone might’ve been lying about your friendship for whatever reason, then you might be a little hurt
@@vincentlucario5450 depends on the context. If someone didn't like me and was putting up with me then sure. If someone was actually Superman irl and didn't tell me for my own safety I would be more amazed than anything honestly.
I think an interesting corollary to the buildup of the Lois/Clark confrontation is that it really feels like the Amber/Mark buildup got left on the cutting room floor. People are like "oh Amber's toxic" and whatnot, but it's more like her arc doesn't add up.
Those episodes of Invincible gave me whiplash feeling like I had somehow missed an episode or two despite binging the whole thing at once. Everything with Amber would have worked better had they saved that story thread to cook for season 2, and actually spent more time building up to Amber having a reaction of that magnitude. As it stands it's an undercooked mess that leaves a character the writers clearly want us to sympathize with coming across as an absolute asshole.
I'm so glad My Adventures with Superman is slowly getting recognition
Lois is the perfect example that fans just want a good written character and not random race swaps
I appreciate this video... When this episode dropped, it kinda reignited the dumpster fire over Amber as well, as people were making comparisons, and it became very apparent that people never took time to think critically about *why* the scene with Amber felt so bad. People were too busy being butt hurt over her being different from the comic version. It seemed they never thought clearly about *what* in the writing wasn't working and why, content to just say "Amber is toxic."
It had me hella confused when people started making the comparisons between Lois and Amber like this... because unlike in Invincible, we have clear and explicit knowledge of what Lois is thinking and feeling... Like... it's stated clearly BEFORE the revelation scene, *with* extension. In the scene with Amber, we had nothing explicit from Amber beyond clearly being unhappy with Mark's disappearing acts and lack of communication. It's enough to infer that being upset about being "lied to" was about more than just the lies... but we have *no* indication of what her *actual* problem with the lies are stemming from. Even when *not* just assuming the worst, calling her "toxic" and moving on, what little we can infer doesn't help much. Is it just that she doesn't like being lied to, in general? Is it some immature teenager thing? Perhaps, after finding out Mark is a superhero, she'd assumed that he was actually more put together than he was presenting himself as Mark, and the reason his lies were so bad was because he thought she was stupid or something.... We don't know! The *only* vague indication to that last idea was her reasoning of "I guess I wasn't the only one being lied to" that she gave when she forgave him at the end. Oh and the narrative parallel being drawn between their fight and the falling out between Debbie and Nolan...
Being left to our own devices to understand what's going on in her head, when she was already primed to be hated because of the changes made to her from her comic counterpart, was a recipe for disaster. The writing for Lois in these scenes runs *laps* around that train wreck.
God i fucking hate those type of people being overly obssesed over Louis sexynes. Because this is the type of shit that happen when someone only sees a character by their looks. Looking at you fighting game community!
@@naolidecomisso4108 Like... Creepily obsessed? Or just that usual obsession with sexiness in people and characters that finds its way into everything?
@@Mai57 i think that It would be the usual one, thought a little bit more exagerated
Like they aren't creepy with such thing, they are Just really annoying because they dont really seen to say any other charter trait of her other than her appearence, also those people for some reason think loies is a tomboy, like bruh she Just has a short hair and thats It.
@@naolidecomisso4108 lol "tomboy" seriously? Is it because she wears pants instead of a pencil skirt? This isn't the first iteration to do that, though... It *can't* be because she's also physically active and can throw a punch, since this isn't the first iteration of Lois to do that, either... This isn't even the first version to have shorter hair! Though this is possibly the shortest it's ever been... Did the hair just push the aesthetic too far for some of them, or something?
this show has been great so far. great take on Superman and very well written
This is show is flat out amazing. One of the best things that DC has put out in a long time.
Let’s gooo! Another great creator blowing up, look forward to the next vids :D
Considering the preview for the next episode will put them together for one on one time to save Jimmy (who both of them basically abandoned dangit JUSTICE FOR JIMMY) and episode seven’s synopsis mentions Clark trying to set up a date.
So they’re making up in the next episode.
Well-done video essay: not only succint but also with your style. You have no idea how nice it is to mention/credit the music playing at different parts.
I appreciate it! It was always annoying to me when I heard cool music in videos but it wasn’t credited anywhere
I swear if the sci fi stuff didn't throw me off I'd be watching so much more of this show. Great job on this, was a well made video that taught me a good bit. The only thing that hampered my watch experience was the audio levels not being consistent between your voiceover and the clips. Besides that, 10/10 work man
I can't believe this is controversial. This is like relationship and character development 101. They aren't even waiting for the NEXT episode!
Really happy videos like these are being made. I believe it's important for us to distinguish between good written characters and bad written characters. How are aspiring writers supposed to learn otherwise?
I was originally in the “Louis is the new Amber” camp, but the way you broke it down convinced me otherwise
I could see this comparison happening in the distance, at it could not be a worse one. The main difference being there's no one in the show taking Lois' side in the conflict. Meanwhile, you had all of Mark's friends taking Amber's side, gaslighting him into thinking he's in the wrong when theres valid reason on his side. I dont see Invincible season 2 getting better if they dont amend that writing flaw. And I only see Superman getting better with their writing
I think it was made clear in the previous episode that Lois just has some issues with people lying to her, specifically because of her dad.
What happened in the recent episode was perhaps a bit of an overreaction, but understandable. Both her and Clark just need to sit down and have a calm discussion rather than what happened on the roof.
Secret Identity are secret for a reason
Someone’s personal life isn’t your business just because you’re friends with them.
There is a special place in heaven for people like you, sir. Thank you for making this video, I'm so tired of the discourse surrounding this episode.
Thanks! I’m enjoying the Superman series so this topic just got me going lol
i am from the future, it took only one episode
4:49, was not expecting by your side to start playing. Love that shit
Man I am not even gonna try to lie. This Lois is the kind of dark skin tomboy we've been fiendish about for years.
I'm all for it
Amber is also nothing like her comic book counterpart. She might have been a naive airhead, but she never came across as a bad person. It's actually pretty sad how she and Mark finally do break up.
But even then, they actually end on Good Terms like maturing people, and later Mark proves that their relationship as Ex-s is still very touching when Mark comes in to save Amber from her new abusive boyfriend and beating him to a bloody mess. That shows that Amber is a legit good person who's worthy of Marks efforts to keep her safe, even as a friendly Ex. I love that about Amber and Mark from the comics, and I hate that the show ruined that by changing Amber into a selfish, narcistic monster.
Episode 6 just came out and you were right on the money. Such a great show.
Awesome seeing this kind of stuff from a small channel! Subbed
I think the biggest and most important difference is that Lois never gaslighted Clark, while Amber spent, supposedly, weeks making Mark feel bad for not showing up when she knew where he was -- most importantly, getting mad at him during the whole "where were you" bit, when she knew that he was literally right there.
I think the writing of Lois and Clark in MAWS is really good and engaging so far and I'm laughing super hard at how titled some dudes are getting about this.
First up, you got a new sub.
Second, I honestly think that _Ben 10: Alien Force_ handled the standard superhero genre trope of relationship tension over the secret identity incredibly well... *by skipping it entirely.* Julie finds out Ben's secret identity on their first date, and says that it's cool. Later on, Ben's life as a superhero does have friction with his time with Julie, but she repeatedly forgives him (despite him eventually being a much worse boyfriend than Mark from _Invincible,_ looking at you UA season 1 filler) because she's willing to put the greater good of the world above Ben sitting in the stands of a tennis match.
Thank you for making this video, the drama on social media is nuts!
The biggest difference though is that Amber actually already KNEW Mark was Invincible WHILE they were at the college. She didn't find out at that point like Lois did. She KNEW he was Invincible; KNEW he was risking his life repeatedly; KNEW he was getting EFFED UP and almost dying on multiple occasions ans STILL calls him a bad boyfriend and treats him like a trash human.
So unless Lois treats Clark like garbage and STILL knows he Superman, there IS NO comparison.
Moral of the story: don't listen to twitter arguments 😂
great analysis of the two characters. I really enjoyed the video, though you might want to work on the sound balancing. Maybe it was just my set up but I couldn't hardly hear the clips from Invincible and MAwS. Other than that I thought that the video was fantastic, the clips were well chosen and the commentary was well delivered. Great video.
Yes. Thank you for pointing out that Lois has no good answer when Clark reveals his reason for keeping his secret. The only thing she can do is fall back on her line of "Whatever we were, whatever we were going to be, not going to happen anymore."
You can even take this line to mean that she's hurt and therefore is trying to make Clark hurt too. After all, people do stupid things when they're mad.
You can write a character being irrationally angry, but the reason they're angry HAS TO make sense. The moment Amber revealed she already knew Mark's secret, her entire reason vanished.
Lois throwing herself off a building is of course reckless, but that's nothing new for Lois Lane as a whole, particularly a young and still developing one. That aside, Clark and Lois have equally valid feelings and points, they just happened to bounce off of each other in the worst way as of now. People aren't always going to do everything perfectly, even in stories. They're only human after all, and Lois's flawed human nature is actually kind of what makes her work as a character and the love of Clark's life. She's flawed, but she genuinely wants to do and fight for the right thing. I've always thought she's kinda a personification of Superman's relationship with humanity and how he'll still go to bat for us despite our worst, because he knows what we can be at our best.
Besides, I guarantee you Clark and Lois will have patched things up by the end of this week's episode, just you wait.
EDIT: Yes, yes they did, told ya so. ;)
I like that Lois, in Episode 6, realising Jimmy knew was upset why he didn't tell her, and Jimmy confronts her saying how it's not his secret to tell.
Jimmy is a Real One
Wait didn't he get mad he thought Clark told Lois first after she asked him that?
@@compareandcontrast9833i mean he has been Clarks friend since college and the first person he tells the secret is his crush id be miffed too
@@danielasarmiento3101 Yeah and that is understandable but I'm talking about the order of the scene. Jimmy says it'd a sensitive subject then she asks why.
@@compareandcontrast9833
He got mad that he told her before him, but also got mad that Lois said "you knew?! Why didn't you told me?" retaliating with how it's not his Secret to tell.
This action is showing how he respects someone's (Clark in this case) boundaries while also backing up on how important it is to Clark. A Privacy Lois was trying to invade earlier in the episode, which indirectly showed Lois how wrong she was for her behaviour (which is why they all got along towards the end).
@@baligong3592 The only thing he said after she asked after she asked was"You told her before me your best friend" and then it cut to Clark. He did not say anything to Lois about how to act when you learn your friend can punt a robot to the moon.
NGL, I am SO happy to watch your video, and have you break this down, even the tittle made me absolutely smile. I saw the criticism of Lois on twitter and I'll be real, i was so disappointed that I just decided not to watch the show like for a bit, like it stopped being a watch as soon as it's out because of the criticism, so i was absolutely PRIMED to hate on Lois because of the Amber thing, but i had nothing to watch decided to give it a go, and just as you said I feel like everyone jumping on the bandwagon didn't even watch the show, the scene, the interaction, lois' feelings (and even clark's actually) were SO SO SO justified. I haven't finished your vid yet, cause i wanted to share my 2 cents before I see where you go with this, but, for me, its one of those relationships, were the attraction is just so powerful, but the trust isn't at the same level as the chemistry, so they were both kind of hesitant to really share themselves. They were both justified in a way, I think its the fact that we know who they truly are that makes US feel frustrated in the way things played out, but putting ourselves in their shoes, of course Lois would feel disrespected when he's lying with such low effort, but also of course he's afraid of her manic pixie intensity hahaha.
I dunno man i'm sorry for rambling, but i just wanted to let you know, I see it too!! (maybe i'll edit something in after i finish your video, thanks for making this man!!!)
The funny thing is that Amber isn't written by "some writers", but by the creator of the original comics. He's majorly involved in adapting the show, including changing things he thought could be done better.
New Amber is not a hack's idea to modernize the character, but the original creator's way to fix the original...
I've read the second half of the comics, so I didn't get to know original Amber. From afar she seems kinda basic and flat. It's good she's supporting him, especially after what happened with Omniman, but she was the girlfriend Mark stood up to until he revealed her his secret.
As for the actual matter, a lot of people tend to blow out at her, but her side is understandable. Like Lois, she's not mad that Mark is actually a superhero. If that were the case, then knowing it beforehand would solve the issue. It's the fact he lied to her for so long, which implies both mistrust on Mark's behalf, and that Mark thought he could lie to her for so long ("I'm not stupid"). That one is more prideful, but it stands firm.
Here's the difference between the two cases: MAW Superman works under the classic assumption of secret identities - don't tell anyone. It's right to keep your heroic identity a secet from your dearests, because it's dangerous. It also create tension, which is good for storytelling. Sure, the show solidify that reality by enhancing the danger in Metropolis, but it doesn't have to. Invincible works under the modern assumption on secret identity - sharing it with your close circle is both helpful and safer than it was. Keeping it a secret will sour your relationship, as it does in the show. It's more realistic, which is what people expect and love from this show. So it's a bit weird that now people complain...
One last difference - Clark "told" Lois only when he had no choice. He was willing to keep living with the secret until "the right time", whenever that would be. Mark told Amber when he realised that this is a way to save his relationship. If you think about it, Mark is being two faced here - if wantd to tell her, he should have done so much sooner, and if he didn't want to, he should have hide it and bear the consequences. Let me say this differently: Clark revealed his secret to save Lois life. Mark revealed his identity as a get out of a ruined relationship card. That's why both his friends grill him for it. That's what "stringing her along" means.
Not to mention, Invincible is focused on Mark, so we don't get complete access to Amber's thoughts, nor should we. MAW Superman seems to focus on Lois, as the show assumes we know Superman well enough after 90 years...
I don't care if it's creator or some intern, new Amber is awful and lacks actual compelling narrative weight of the original, as og relationship with Amber was breaking her apart like Debbie with Nolan, and them breaking up was for the better for everyone involved. It was unique, compelling and mocked the tropes that comic writers over use for sake of drama.
OG comic had real sense of natural human growth with some parody snark while show is turned into shitshow comic was pissing on and avoiding to be.
I always felt Amber was written the way she was to fast track Mark and Eve because they are the end game couple. The real mess up was bringing Amber back at the end of ep8.
Lois has always been written way better then Amber (from the show). Though the rest of the show does not live up to the writing for Lois in this EP.
Amber is absolutely worse. There's no comparison really. Lois tried to give Clark chances to admit his secrets.
And when unlike Amber she atleast gives him a chance to explain his side. Meanwhile no matter what marks says Amber spins it to make it all about her.
What the hell. I thought this was a video from a channel with 100k+ subs. You deserve way more than 800 for the quality. You've earned a sub!
Well, the newest episode does a good job of repairing their relationship with each other from what I can tell.😊
The thing that bothers me with online discussions of Amber is that people will say "She's the one bad part of the show" or "Worst character ever" when I really like her EXCEPT for that one episode. Before that I think she was really charming and endearing. And then they just wrote her conflict with Mark so poorly that it made people hate her character as a whole.
It's a shame to know a bad ending to something can sour the entire feeling on it. Technically they'll have more time to do things with amber for sure but I have a feeling the show makers know that bridge is burned
Honestly if you remove the fact that Amber knew all along her anger would make more sense. In the Invincible comics Amber there genuiely did not know at all and thought Mark was doing something bad or shady on the side (like drug dealing) which was why he wasn't showing up on time.
The reveal that she already knew ahead of time just made her look like an asshole retroactively. I mean teens can be immature idiots but I think most would understand that superhero work is no joke really, also considering Amber had a thing for helping people it seems incredibly odd and dumb that she wouldn't be atleast happy it wasn't something else instead of superheroics. Also the making moves on another guy thing not long after was also pretty cruel with the knowledge that she knew by then.
It really felt like they were trying to inject drama into the relationship without needing too and that the writing team did it in the dumbest way possible. There could of been so many other ways things wouldn't work out between them, like seeing Mark getting hurt badly trying to be a superhero and such.
I don't hate Amber really after watching Invicible the second time, I just really dislike what the writers did with her.
Yeah I agree most of the time I liked her character, even defending her in episode 6, it's only in episode 7 where I couldn't defend her anymore as it literally undermined most of my reasons for defending her.
Denouement is pronounced Day-New-Maw. It’s French and therefore weird.
The French strike again 🫠
Bro legit summed up my entire thoughts about the situation very concisely. Well done.
Great video dude you just earned a new subscriber!
Furthermore, Lois’ actions are shown to be in character and are written to exhibit those facets of her character. If she had just blindly accepted it and fell into his arms people would be upset and may even say it was sexist. When Lois goes off the building it is both a leap of faith in that she trusts he will save her, thus showing that despite this there is trust there to begin with-which is why I agree that this will likely lead to them being close again in a few episodes.
It’s also different in that Clark and Lois are shown to have good (in character!) reasons for either keeping the secret/being mad at his not telling her. Neither is painted as a horrible person, or fully in the wrong, whereas Mark is painted to be entirely in the wrong and that Amber is entirely justified.