I did a run through the mod going for spectres as soon as possible, and just 10 of them could tear through entire maps by themselves on hard. Course this was before the change that only lets you have 2 of either spectres or ghosts at a time so you can't do that anymore.
They're expensive in supply and overall cost. They may be disposable but they are a wildly inefficient tool for the job you want them for. And once you have enough crew even normal units are reasonably spendable. The mercs seem to be a tool to use when your bottleneck is crewmates instead of in-mission resources. While you have the crew to spare the stronger standard units are just better to use. Having a small core of "disposable" units will not lower your overall casualties because the armies you are fielding are weaker than they otherwise would be. It is the difference between having disposable units in your army versus having an army that does not need disposable units. Expensive units who's "most important aspect" is that they can die (and in so doing, stop providing you value for your minerals) sounds like a very suspect argument. Take warpigs as an example: I do not know their crew mod stats but in the base game they cost the same as 5 marines for 4 units. In this mod if we assume they still cost 250 minerals but now require double the supply count you will essentially have to pay half a supply depot's worth of resources on top of that to payoff the double supply (a supply depot is worth about 110 minerals in base value + lost mining time) making warpigs cost 6 marines for 4 warpigs. If Grant is correct in his assumption that a fully upgraded normal marine is better in overall combat effectiveness than a warpig, that makes the prospect of including the warpigs over regular marines somewhat dubious in the medium-long term.
@@crazymanmot The thing that I love about the mod is that it makes mercenaries feel like actual mercenaries instead of elite solders. Mercenaries are supposed to be expensive, not as good as a well trained solder, but have two advantages in they are immediately available and disposable. That is actually how they feel in this mod now. Historically don't what an army composed solely of mercenaries but if you are in a harry situation and need bodies now, or you have a scary mission that will probably get some guys killed then send the mercenaries. They feel actually thematic and the cost benefit of mercenaries is more in line with how they should be, feels great.
@@jefferyjoslin4549 well, the mercenaries have increased damage and health, which makes then bulkier than normal units, especially the warpigs. Supply wasn't really a problem in this mod, cause you can load extra crew into supplies. And the main reason why mercenaries are viable is because they are versatile. If you need an anti air in early game you better get a warpigs, cause they have more hp than standard marine, and you are not worried about going out with a fragile units. In later stages of campaign you can get Vikings and goliaths for immediate anti air, siegebreakers for more antiground and defense, and marodeurs for movement slow in general mech comps.
@@ДанилЗуев-е9э Good point on the supply, I am still not sure if those stat stick compensation buffs they get is worth while compared to the base unit.
@@crazymanmot well, the base units are also required much more money for upgrades, than original or mercs. The warpigs are 4 marines with bonus hp and damage for 250 minerals. The basic marines are 200 minerals for 4, but upgraded are 320 minerals and 40 gas, which is much more expensive and they still have less hp. I personally think that warpigs are best merc in this mode, siegebreakers are good for pushing when you actually need to unsiege tanks, and goliaths still solid unit even when unupgraded. At least they are really good options if you lost many crew.
Grant, you continue to prove that the custom campaign community deserves love, and requires feedback in order to grow. I hope that you stay healthy, safe and reasonably rich too, because your input in this tiny, but tremendously entertaining area of SC:2 is an international treasure.
Grant the laser tank, proto maurader, proto marines, amd dark templat count too. All S tier though. Those marines and marauder make for a beastly bunker for every mission.
I know I'm late, but I think the Hammer Securities having less range is a blessing in disguise. Since they have less range than normal Marauders, they'll be soaking more shots for the normal marauders behind them, and it's still at 6 range, which means Medics aren't at risk. Considering that Mercenaries aren't crew, this works out perfectly, and I think they should be on A tie- ...High B tier. The double supply cost still hurts.
I totally disagree putting the reaper in d tier. Its the best in something like the other S and A tier units, and that something is losing crew the fastest way possible
What about the Tauren Space Marine? I wanted to go for specters after choosing ghosts in my initial play through and cheated my way through the replay of Zero Hour and got the Tauren Space Marine from the top of the map. He’s stuck with me through every mission as “crew” - and at this point, I’m too scared to use him in anything other than a bunker so he doesn’t die. Thanks @orcawarrior2 for including the persistent Tauren that probably very few people will see. Love the attention to little details that your mods always have :)
If firebats could get charge or leap so they get in the front, and maybe a kind of taunt ot target priority, they could be better meatshield in a normal campaing. But here you dont want to take damage.
Hell the best way to make them useful is to cut down the time between entering there ranged and firing, and then you give them 2 extra things, the abylity to fire while moving, and the abylity to attack so long as anything is in there AOE, this would let them fight properly against anything except melee units, but still remain vulnerable because they are slow and have bad range, they become about neutralizing that weakness from good positioning
Viking had a massively under-utilised ability which was the mech damage. Being that it only applied to one mission and that’s only if you chose to save the colony. B tier
@@Daniel-yy3ty They also still have splash missiles from the armory, which makes them aerial siege tanks when in the air. Instantly shoots them up in usability since no other air unit has that. Another vote for A tier.
@@The-jy3yq Maw of the Void, surprisingly. Obviously not to assault the enemy, but Vikings actually do a really good job at sniping Warp Prisms that try to sneak past your defenses (They do this a LOT in that mission). Oh right, they’re also good for the Dig, although that mission is one of the few cases where Wraiths do a lot better because of their cloak.
@@ThisIsntAUA-camr Oops, forgot about Richard. Well, now that upgrade seems pretty good. I don't think that Warp Prisms are _that_ important though. Sure thing, they do this a lot, but I think that having a handful of unupgraded Vikings or Goliaths would be better and cheaper, since Prisms don't have a lot of hp. Can Thors beat Maw of the Void? I'm just thinking of an addition to the BC fleet.
Nerfing Ghosts and Specter's to 2 is understandable but really bad. What i can offer is this: having only 1 ghost to max level then having 2 more ghosts to 2 levels below. And 1 more 2 lvls below (total of 4 right now) then 2 more 2 lvls below (like 1 lvl10, 2 lvl8, 1 lvl6, 2 lvl4 and thats it.) Also Missile turrets that are in range of Sensor Towers shouldn't require a crew to oparate but having a crew in should allow missile turrets to have smaller missile attack from upgrade.
Just want to point out here that bunkers no longer have the +1 range themselves. That range upgrade is what the marines are using. So in bunkers, marines are exactly the same as in the base game, while reapers have less range (they used to get +1 themselves and +1 from the bunker) and the marauder has one more than normal (+2 themselves). Marines just carry their range upgrade outside now, and it makes them much stronger early-game as part of a bioball with medic/marauder. Unupgraded reapers actually have higher hp than upgraded marines. I was flabbergasted when I saw that. They can take absorb 2 hits from a spine crawler without dying, and their extra structure damage means that a crew of just 20 reapers can rush the crawler and take it out in one shot, then heal up using their combat drugs. And their rapid attacks just melt through infested, zerglings, hydralisks and marines, which are the main enemies in the missions where they're normally very good. I think they might actually make a great screen for a diamondback/goliath composition, though I have yet to actually try it. Point is, you never gave the reaper a chance to show you what it can do. You were too scared of them. Don't forget, you can afford to lose a few infantry giving them a chance. Vikings and Wraiths have the same hp and armor. Exactly the same. What really makes the difference is not survivability but damage. Wraiths are fighting the whole enemy while vikings melt half of it before it gets to them. Wraiths are faster with shorter range and no aoe, but can cloak. So if you put the two units together, wraiths rush ahead and take target priority over the viking. Cloak keeps them safe outside of detection range, and the dodge upgrade makes cloak useful even inside of detection. What really kills the Wraith IMO is that it takes 2 crew while the viking only uses 1. I've used the wraith to provide anti-ground support to an air force of vikings and anti-air support to landed vikings, and they're fine either way. You just need a little more control than a-moving straight from your base into the enemy. Spooks got so heavily buffed in this mod that they took huge nerfs after you played. 2 spectres and 3 ghosts is all you're allowed now, and you're probably sacrificing 20 crew to get them. Because we found exactly what you were saying, that you could rush the spooks and then solo whole missions with either one. Orca wanted people to enjoy the rest of the mod too. I want to do a run that makes more use of the less used units, but I've been too busy to get to it yet. One thing I have noted thus far is that marine/medic/marauder work so well together because they have the same speed, and siege tanks match that speed perfectly. Goliaths are slightly faster, so they're always forcing their way to the front, and diamondbacks even without speed upgrades are slightly faster than that, so diamondbacks will always be in front tanking for the goliath. But the siege tanks only got one upgrade. When all you need from them is base defense, the stationary upgrade takes an S tier unit and dials it up to 11. But the mobile upgrade is actually a downgrade because it completely negates the slow push and costs extra gas to do it.
I just finished watching this run for Grant, and I'm downloading it for my next playthrough. Thank you for pointing out the Reaper and Viking+Wraith facts, it will really give me a different army comp to look forward to compared to normal.
@@Jeikobu No problem. Have fun! And, be careful on Moebius Factor and Supernova. Currently I think Moebius is still very aggressive very early, so you can end up with zerglings chewing on your crew before the marines walk up the ramp, and Supernova has turned into a massive escort mission with all your crew walking around. Seriously, I had trouble figuring out where to put them all as I was moving house, and they kept getting attacked on the road. It's worse than agria because you can't make enough ATVs for everyone, and you don't have time to ferry everyone back and forth.
@@Nurk0m0rath Thank you for the advise, Supernova certainly didn't look like the most fun to juggle the crew on, but I'll figure out what works for me as far as managing them.
Wraiths don't have Tempest range in air mode and Colossus range in ground mode. Wraiths cost more, both in resources and crew. Wraiths are a lot speedier, meaning it'll be harder to incorporate them into your army. Three free Wraiths are nice, but they don't have much more going for them.
@@The-jy3yq Yes, I'm aware. I did say that what wraiths lack but vikings have is damage output. Maybe I didn't put enough emphasis on that point, but the fact is that in a lot of circumstances, wraiths with the dodge upgrade and available cloak energy are actually pretty durable in this mod, while Vikings are still paper but have so much damage output it doesn't even matter. I was specifically referring to Grant saying that wraiths were made of paper while praising the viking's durability. Wraiths only *feel* like they're made of paper because they dive into range of everything that can hurt them, rather than shredding it before it becomes a threat. Honestly, the problem with the wraith is that they step on the toes of 2 units new to starcraft 2: the banshee, and the viking. Each one is specialized to hit air or ground and does their specific job better than the wraith, so the wraith looks bad by comparison. But wraiths are the only air units fast enough to tank for the glass banshee and the only air-vs-air unit that can cloak. I think they need to lean into those two niches with mutually exclusive upgrades that let them choose between free cloaking or giving up cloak entirely for greater durability, maybe even via shields that would let them work in Maw of the Void. But my main point here is that I've used the wraiths in this mod and it hasn't been that bad. Yes other units can do the job better, but the wraith can still do pretty well as long as it's properly controlled.
Wraiths seems pretty solid considering you get 3 free suits each mission. That can help you for early defence and getting a expansion, then you can replace the suits for vikings or banshees once you get going. Definetely C tier
Warbot wouldn't be a dependency issue since you get control of one in Piercing the Shroud normally making it a WOL unit. But I agree. The Raven, Predator, and Mule are not enough robotic units to justify the need for Towers/Medivacs. I would welcome a new building that produced inferior infantry units that were robotic. But by that point you are almost creating another faction.
I think the firebat needs a range upgrade and perhaps another durability upgrade. If you give the firebat the same range as the roach it would probably be worth building in some situations
It's still a Firebat. No damage, quite low durability for tanking, even with Roach range they're still basically melee, armor is low and they require both 100/25/2 and an infantry crew member which are _very_ important early on. Later on, Firebats are, simply put, *useless.*
Of course, depending on the version you're playing the range bonus of the bunker was swapped for a 20% damage increase (so 1 damage because marines) instead of 1 range, so you've gotta pay for the individual upgrades to get back to where you were at with the base WoL bunkers, except you've got a bit more damage.
Once I finish my mono Specter playthrough I want to try this mod again with minimum crew and see what that's like. (kill off all crew you didn't just gain with each mission) I feel like this mod is at its best when you're hurting for crew.
I wish the crew were a resource in this mod rather than having tons of vulnerable little men. I love the idea of having to preserve your units but the extra challenge of managing all the little dudes would exclude me from playing above normal difficult which just isn't worth it (at my skill level I would just get overwhelmed on the harder missions). You still leave in the ability for dudes to jump suits, just not start with 50 crew in the base and have the units cost crew to build instead of have to load them. I appreciate all the work that went to making it work, it is impressive and I didn't enjoy watching the play though.
my thought for making the Raven better is if it being a true AI let it move out on its own and can give a large signal area for other drones. You would have to make up for it by making them way more expensive or only being able to have one at a time but making it level up and carry through like ghosts.
@@CallsignYukiMizuki Yeah, but almost half of all units were in B. I’d just be slightly more descriptive this way, plus grant would stop having to say “high B tier.”
I think it does speak to the balancing of the mod. B is supposed to be solid units. Not over or under powered which is where most units should be with good balance
I think the mercenaries deserve a general buff to balance only having half the potential upgrades, but tweaking firebat and raven is way more important. I think there should also be buffs given to the static defenses, something to make them less dangerous to your own crew and giving them more advantageous mineral dumps compared to spamming mines every mission.
Turrets and manned guns gain +100 hp and +1 armor from an armory upgrade, and +2 range from another. That's already pretty significant. I do agree the mercs need to be stronger to be worth the double supply though. Currently their only advantage is not consuming crew and it's actually quite easy to be overstocked on crew. I mean, seriously, standard marines with shields have as much hp as the mercs but an additional range.
I may have only played on hard, but when I played this I rushed for Specters and trained up nine of them as soon as possible. I then steamrolled through the rest of the game without losing a single unit because they are just so strong. I had cleared maps I had previously never cleared simply because the Specters can do whatever I need them to do. They can tank, they dish out huge amounts of damage, and they cloak. They can do everything I need them to do, especially when you get their upgrades. The only issue is trying to build up more supply as I start every mission heavily supply blocked
I think you’re undervaluing the advantage of disposability mercs have. In a mech-based army, using the bio mercenaries means you have a (relatively cheap) meatshield of units that mean *nothing* when they die, while still being decently robust. That IMO takes devil dogs out of D tier (instead into C) and puts both war pigs and hammers into A.
Hammers are a decent meatshield and War Pigs dish out solid amounts of damage, but that's it. They not only cost a _lot_ of supply, but are on the exact same power level. So that is why they're in B - they're just solid, not awesome unlike Hell's Angels. Oh, and Hotdogs? Well, they are bad. They don't have Juggernaut Plating. I think that Merc Mech is cool. Banshees are kinda disposable('cus they die so, so much) so Duck Wings are your savior(although if you're using them only on All In...well, they're pretty bad); Spartan Company is respectable for what they do and Jackson's is, well, questionable.
for someone who want to rush ghost/spec, i highly recommend rush the sieg tank(they will help you defend while you busy upgrading ghost/spec. and for the mission to farm for exp, i recommend the haven's fall and the cutthroat mission cause the enemy constantly making more unit and there aren't a time limit or someone you need to baby sit like the odin. p/s: i play the ghost version and waste about an hour for 6 ghost so idk how fast for 6 spec to get up to lv10
21:12 yeah i'm that "someone", yeah they are bad interm of getting hit but for low defense place with litter to no anti ground unit, they can get still get in drop their bomb and get out wait for self heal.
It's wild how hard he turned on the Firebats and Hellions. At the start of the mod he was like "oh yeah! these have upgrades them make them actually useful!" Then he didn't talk about them for the rest of the playthrough, and now he says they suck. It almost feels unfair.
Hellions are justified, since they are glorified coffins on wheels (very speedy too) for a much needed venicle crew, but Firebats...meh. They still are _not good at all._ Marauders(when massed) are better at dealing with Zergles and Sealots and are better at tanking while retaining their awesome DPS. Firebats are just not worth the investment. Wraiths though? I liked them. How they have their _Burst Lasers_ do high burst damage and stuff, three free Wraiths at the start of each mission, looked damn good. And now they are in D tier...
The moebius factor is a mission that reapers can be useful, so is supernova, if you dodge storms. Still a very heavy micro intensive unit and its not worth the risk for whatever value it brings. Clearly S+ tier
I ran the whole campaign just in 1 day, right before the spooky boys limitations to 2 Gotta say, 15 Spectres feel nice, amazing job with the campaign, the crew mechanic works fine, just it's too many of them at the beginning But nerfing Spectres/Ghosts? Why? It's single player game, I thought it'd be nice if people could choose not to play with those by themselves And yeah, the supply cap seems kinda odd
Staring off missions with a big group of really powerful units kinda trivializes things and defeats the purpose of having a valuable crew if you never put them in any risk. Also having a limited amount of powerful units that level up is a nice Warcraft 3 like mechanic
If people have the opportunity, they will optimize the fun out of a game. As a game designer, it's your job to prevent them from making the game unfun.
@@bobbyferg9173 I mean if you want to have a challenge, you can avoid spooky boys with your own hands, you know, have this limitation made by yourself, but if you want to have some fun with powerful dudes, imo it's ok and personally I had lots of fun
@@momom6197 nah that's just being opinionated about how the game is meant to be played. And the most popular sandboxes being played by everyone show that people like to be free to do whatever they want. If they want to go for crew only, they can. If they want 10 ghosts, they should be able to do it. A shitty artificial limitation isn't the way to go about it.
@@Xenomorphin1 Yeah, they honestly could've had the ghost/spectre limit be for Brutal only (if that's possible, I don't know since I haven't played SC2, only watched it). Since if you're playing Brutal, you're already looking for a challenge. I just don't understand putting an arbitrary limit like this on a single player game. I wouldn't be surprised if many people don't even play the mod simply because they are being restricted in play styles that feel incredibly arbitrary. I suppose you could look at it from a story stand point (why would Raynor have more than 2 Ghosts?), but it still takes the wind out of the sails for a lot of people; because people don't like being told what to do when having fun. And perhaps this is just people blowing things out of proportions, but isn't the point of playing a game to have fun? Honestly, this mod is a great concept and I love it, but this decision seems far too heavy handed when the goal of gaming (at least casually) is to have fun. Edit: And to address any that say Ghost spam isn't fun, that's your opinion. The fact of the matter is the mod maker has decided to remove one avenue of playing from the mod, which will turn many away from the mod itself, thereby hurting the longevity of the mod (if no one has interest in the mod, why update?). Honestly, it's less a case of removing Ghost spam and more a case of removing options from a player's hand when a player can very very easily just decide to, ya know, not make Ghosts/Spectres.
Do you know if there will be a Leviathan crew and Spear of Adun crew mods ? Great works from the moders and thanks Grant for reigniting my love for this game :-D
The swarm would be the opposite. Neverending zerg. Spear of Adun would be however good idea. First the protoss lost the Aiur and whole civilization... Then their attack to retake it left them almost wiped out. Also to make Dragoon or Immortal you need almost dead protoss. Also protoss can teleport so their system would work differently. Ok technicly terrans can teleport too but it was like one scene.
I liked every unit and upgrade, the problem of fast units, is the MAP, the campaign dont give you places to use it, firebat and hellions are good on 2 missions in the start. This mod would be even greater if there were Longer missions and bigger maps.... hmmm How about a Mod that makes Every Map DOUBLE the Size?? is that possible? Think with me for a second, the escort mission would have more space to walk around the APC, the infestation hellion map would be very painfull to complete with slow units, bellshir would force you to make a strong army and walk around with it, Char missions wouldnt have the problem of squeezing your army, etc I Think this would be a Great mod, specially combined with the Crew Mod
I think a possibility is to make a mod where each unit vision, movement speed and range is halved, including enemies. This should include buildings, spell range and aoe damage/ spells but not workers (unless you want to force the player to "macro" heavier, still you can halv their vision)
I played the mod in normal and yeah I can tell rush Tosh mission > unlock Specters > do every defensive missions to build and farm Specters > build 15 specters so always starting with 150 supplies + 50 of default units > crush every missions it's insane, I loved Medivac mission with army of specters and they're so strong against protoss Spoilers With their shild upgrade the Battleship mission is suck a joke with Specters, I really had a lot of fun
I rushed for gohsts and then went to havens fall... I ended up with 10 level 10 gohsts and they were able to solo the vast majority of missions from that point.
Once again, Firebat is the lowest of the low. Maybe it's time to get a few tricks out of C&C book on flamethrower units? Otherwise it seems like damage and range buff to match a certain deployable turret made by Swan are in order. As well as lingering flames, flame status effect on enemies and firing in a cone.
Grant, reapers are fucking awesome, against ground if you go mass reaper it works incredible. The regen is fantastic. I made the hellion mission with the reapers and broke my personal record, its a gas cannon but its a regenerating glass cannon. I couldn't use ghosts, i found them incredibly expensive and hard to justify, i don't really use spell casters, i don't have the speed, and the keybindings were bugged in spanish so it annoyed the fuck out of me, i rather control units in space and timing than skillshots. So the reaper for me was amazing. Not having to have medics for them its awesome.
@@The-jy3yq try to use them in most zerg missions they work comically good, even in the moebius factor. as long as i have some ground to air or air to air support. i wouldnt try it against toss, but yeah the regen kinda breaks them in the mod its actually pretty useful to not waste money on medics. against toss it didnt go as great, the gas mission is a bitch to make it work because you actually need the goliats.
I thinks the firebat should be C, its true that you need to buy his armor during the mission but then you can us the money normally use in the campagne for other things. Its also à good front frontline figther during the early game of the campagne. Just this help him a lot (but i dont feel his damage upgrade is needed and dont really need firebat for the late game)
*That* is why they are so low. They are _useless_ in the ending parts, really, _really_ weak at the mid stages and are mediocre at best early in the campaign. Even worse, they are prone to dying very quickly, and that is a massive nerf to your army in the early stages of the campaign. They are simply not worth it. Same goes for Reapers. And, as a nail inthe coffin, Marauders are simply better at Firebat's job than Firebats.
Out of curiosity, I know that in co-op as Swann you can pick up a deployed siege tank in a Hercules and drop it elsewhere still deployed. In this mod, can that be done to a siege tank with the upgrade that keeps them in siege mode all the time? and if not where can I beg Orca to add it in lol, herc/tank micro is too fun and seems like it would be a blast with this mod
I think wraiths are low c tier cause u get 3 of them at the start of the mission and the dodge and insta energy abilities plus the 3 vollies make it very microable but u have to be good something I am most definitely not but other than that they could really set you up in the early game of each mission in doing stuff like when you get the Odin going behind base 2 and 3 and weakening them. Also YOU FORGOR the laser tank the big boi marauder and the Uber marines.
I found warpigs to be the best mercenary and useful on most early missions. As marines are not as good do to there ability to die easily and enmass, you can instead use warpigs to kill all the air and losses don't hurt so badly. After I got the Goliath, I never used them again.
The marines have more health (110 I believe), deal bonus damage to light, and have a 10% chance to fire an incendiary grenade instead of their regular attack.
He actually did this already - IIRC, he did it before Zealots only, even (on the assumption that Zealots only would be probably impossible). It's on the archive channel, though it doesn't have a main channel video
Diamondback is D tier, because it is completely useless except for the mission it was introduced. Vulture is C tier, there is no point of mines for defence when there are siege tanks and bunkers. Ghost is B tier - because it requires a lot of valuable micro.
No point for mines? STs need gas and venicle crew and are famous for their friendly fire, Bunkers suck most of the time (generally with clumps of enemies), so I don't really see where you're going with that Diamondback is D tier? Boy, you're wrong, it is very good. Although it gets completely inviable when comparing them to STs, they do have a role - combine them with Goliaths and you have the third-to-best mech comp, even just mass Diamondbacks are really really solid, these things do so much damage and are pretty bulky too, while they don't have Thor issues(speed and fat) or ST issues (Tank mode is practucally useless and Siege Mode needs time) Because of that, they're quite mobile and get where you told them to go without any problem
It will be not possible because you need 4 mission befor you get reaper the first three mission and then smash and grab or agria after that you get a chance to get the reaper
Thor on Piercing the Shroud is normal, _completely normal._ Last I've heard, the devs wanted him removed 'cus it was a bit dumb to put him where he was The third prototype-type(duh) units were Uber Marines who initially had very simple firebombs on autocast, they seemed to ge a buff and get real pretty
Why are Wraiths in D? They deserve to be in C with their three free Wraiths being a not bad option for early game, especially after the burst _Burst Lasers_ upgrade Addendum: Imagine if we had Mercenary Wraiths. Just imagine...
The Hyperion Crew Mod is now available for everyone to play for free! You can download it here: discord.gg/UCDyZyr6gg
I'll have so much fun with this beauty! Thank you and the team so much! :D
Honourable mention to the S-tier laser tank
S ++
Yes! :D
Very honorable mention to the B-tier all-screen shooting Marauder
I did a run through the mod going for spectres as soon as possible, and just 10 of them could tear through entire maps by themselves on hard. Course this was before the change that only lets you have 2 of either spectres or ghosts at a time so you can't do that anymore.
wait, are ghosts now limited to 2 altogether?!?!!??!
2?!?!!?? Well, now they A tier
Wait seriously ?
There goes my plan to do a ghost only run ...
You can have 2 spectres and 3 ghost at one time with saves
@@papivales4084 definetly A tier then. Sad times. Also, how can you get both? I thought you chose one or the other.
Grant's undervaluing the most important aspect of mercenaries: they're disposable.
They're expensive in supply and overall cost. They may be disposable but they are a wildly inefficient tool for the job you want them for. And once you have enough crew even normal units are reasonably spendable. The mercs seem to be a tool to use when your bottleneck is crewmates instead of in-mission resources. While you have the crew to spare the stronger standard units are just better to use. Having a small core of "disposable" units will not lower your overall casualties because the armies you are fielding are weaker than they otherwise would be. It is the difference between having disposable units in your army versus having an army that does not need disposable units. Expensive units who's "most important aspect" is that they can die (and in so doing, stop providing you value for your minerals) sounds like a very suspect argument.
Take warpigs as an example: I do not know their crew mod stats but in the base game they cost the same as 5 marines for 4 units. In this mod if we assume they still cost 250 minerals but now require double the supply count you will essentially have to pay half a supply depot's worth of resources on top of that to payoff the double supply (a supply depot is worth about 110 minerals in base value + lost mining time) making warpigs cost 6 marines for 4 warpigs. If Grant is correct in his assumption that a fully upgraded normal marine is better in overall combat effectiveness than a warpig, that makes the prospect of including the warpigs over regular marines somewhat dubious in the medium-long term.
@@crazymanmot The thing that I love about the mod is that it makes mercenaries feel like actual mercenaries instead of elite solders. Mercenaries are supposed to be expensive, not as good as a well trained solder, but have two advantages in they are immediately available and disposable. That is actually how they feel in this mod now.
Historically don't what an army composed solely of mercenaries but if you are in a harry situation and need bodies now, or you have a scary mission that will probably get some guys killed then send the mercenaries. They feel actually thematic and the cost benefit of mercenaries is more in line with how they should be, feels great.
@@jefferyjoslin4549 well, the mercenaries have increased damage and health, which makes then bulkier than normal units, especially the warpigs. Supply wasn't really a problem in this mod, cause you can load extra crew into supplies. And the main reason why mercenaries are viable is because they are versatile. If you need an anti air in early game you better get a warpigs, cause they have more hp than standard marine, and you are not worried about going out with a fragile units. In later stages of campaign you can get Vikings and goliaths for immediate anti air, siegebreakers for more antiground and defense, and marodeurs for movement slow in general mech comps.
@@ДанилЗуев-е9э Good point on the supply, I am still not sure if those stat stick compensation buffs they get is worth while compared to the base unit.
@@crazymanmot well, the base units are also required much more money for upgrades, than original or mercs. The warpigs are 4 marines with bonus hp and damage for 250 minerals. The basic marines are 200 minerals for 4, but upgraded are 320 minerals and 40 gas, which is much more expensive and they still have less hp. I personally think that warpigs are best merc in this mode, siegebreakers are good for pushing when you actually need to unsiege tanks, and goliaths still solid unit even when unupgraded. At least they are really good options if you lost many crew.
Grant, you continue to prove that the custom campaign community deserves love, and requires feedback in order to grow. I hope that you stay healthy, safe and reasonably rich too, because your input in this tiny, but tremendously entertaining area of SC:2 is an international treasure.
Firebats have gotten buffed a fair bit (50 more hp, short attack windup) since you played it, and Ghost/Spectres got nerfed and limited to only 2 max.
They got limited to 2?
ngl, only 2 of them are more than enough. counting all the prototype suits and merc made up the greatest early game
Man, and I was just getting excited to rush for ghosts and tear through maps, and they just did that, what a shame.
Wait seriously ?
There goes my plan to do a ghost only run ...
@@Eunski You think you can't do a ghost only run with 2 ghosts?
Grant the laser tank, proto maurader, proto marines, amd dark templat count too.
All S tier though.
Those marines and marauder make for a beastly bunker for every mission.
I forgot about the Dark Templar.
Do they just hang out in a dark corner of the Hyperion muttering weird prophecies?
Probably, lol
@@Satherian smoke terrazine probably
I know I'm late, but I think the Hammer Securities having less range is a blessing in disguise. Since they have less range than normal Marauders, they'll be soaking more shots for the normal marauders behind them, and it's still at 6 range, which means Medics aren't at risk. Considering that Mercenaries aren't crew, this works out perfectly, and I think they should be on A tie- ...High B tier. The double supply cost still hurts.
I totally disagree putting the reaper in d tier. Its the best in something like the other S and A tier units, and that something is losing crew the fastest way possible
You had me in the 1st half
Even faster with the speed upgrade
1) the reaper has 60 HP, more than a marine with combat
2) the speed upgrade has been replaced
@@Orcawarrior2 oh okay, understood
What about the Tauren Space Marine? I wanted to go for specters after choosing ghosts in my initial play through and cheated my way through the replay of Zero Hour and got the Tauren Space Marine from the top of the map. He’s stuck with me through every mission as “crew” - and at this point, I’m too scared to use him in anything other than a bunker so he doesn’t die.
Thanks @orcawarrior2 for including the persistent Tauren that probably very few people will see. Love the attention to little details that your mods always have :)
I still believe that the main weakness the Firebat has, is its range. It just doesn't hit enemies far enough away to ever be optimal to use.
@@aaronscott7467 I recall some mod where they're attack animation was cut in half and they were actually viable
If firebats could get charge or leap so they get in the front, and maybe a kind of taunt ot target priority, they could be better meatshield in a normal campaing. But here you dont want to take damage.
Hell the best way to make them useful is to cut down the time between entering there ranged and firing, and then you give them 2 extra things, the abylity to fire while moving, and the abylity to attack so long as anything is in there AOE, this would let them fight properly against anything except melee units, but still remain vulnerable because they are slow and have bad range, they become about neutralizing that weakness from good positioning
Wait. What about the Herc? Its a melee unit that has that hook used as gap closer. I dont remember why it didnt make it into the game
@@ernestoiparraguirre2745 because it is useless for Terran and has no synergy with anything. It has no role in Terran roster
Viking had a massively under-utilised ability which was the mech damage. Being that it only applied to one mission and that’s only if you chose to save the colony.
B tier
They still have 69 range even while landed... That in itself is A tier
@@Daniel-yy3ty They also still have splash missiles from the armory, which makes them aerial siege tanks when in the air. Instantly shoots them up in usability since no other air unit has that. Another vote for A tier.
So, on which missions is that upgrade viable?
Safe Haven
The Engine of Destruction
Media Blitz
Supernova?
Welcome to the Jungle.
@@The-jy3yq Maw of the Void, surprisingly. Obviously not to assault the enemy, but Vikings actually do a really good job at sniping Warp Prisms that try to sneak past your defenses (They do this a LOT in that mission).
Oh right, they’re also good for the Dig, although that mission is one of the few cases where Wraiths do a lot better because of their cloak.
@@ThisIsntAUA-camr Oops, forgot about Richard.
Well, now that upgrade seems pretty good.
I don't think that Warp Prisms are _that_ important though. Sure thing, they do this a lot, but I think that having a handful of unupgraded Vikings or Goliaths would be better and cheaper, since Prisms don't have a lot of hp.
Can Thors beat Maw of the Void? I'm just thinking of an addition to the BC fleet.
Waiting for grant to do a playthrough with only reapers now.
The reaper definitely, totally deserves to be S Tier and is the best unit in the whole game... as long as you're Byun
Nerfing Ghosts and Specter's to 2 is understandable but really bad. What i can offer is this: having only 1 ghost to max level then having 2 more ghosts to 2 levels below. And 1 more 2 lvls below (total of 4 right now) then 2 more 2 lvls below (like 1 lvl10, 2 lvl8, 1 lvl6, 2 lvl4 and thats it.)
Also Missile turrets that are in range of Sensor Towers shouldn't require a crew to oparate but having a crew in should allow missile turrets to have smaller missile attack from upgrade.
I strongly agree with the Missile Turret suggestion!
Now that seems very, _very_ conplicated to do.
Because I, with my basic knowledge of SC2 editor, have absolutely no idea on how to do that.
Loved this mod so much kind of wish you could play it with real scale to see how insane the Campaign can get.
Just want to point out here that bunkers no longer have the +1 range themselves. That range upgrade is what the marines are using. So in bunkers, marines are exactly the same as in the base game, while reapers have less range (they used to get +1 themselves and +1 from the bunker) and the marauder has one more than normal (+2 themselves). Marines just carry their range upgrade outside now, and it makes them much stronger early-game as part of a bioball with medic/marauder.
Unupgraded reapers actually have higher hp than upgraded marines. I was flabbergasted when I saw that. They can take absorb 2 hits from a spine crawler without dying, and their extra structure damage means that a crew of just 20 reapers can rush the crawler and take it out in one shot, then heal up using their combat drugs. And their rapid attacks just melt through infested, zerglings, hydralisks and marines, which are the main enemies in the missions where they're normally very good. I think they might actually make a great screen for a diamondback/goliath composition, though I have yet to actually try it. Point is, you never gave the reaper a chance to show you what it can do. You were too scared of them. Don't forget, you can afford to lose a few infantry giving them a chance.
Vikings and Wraiths have the same hp and armor. Exactly the same. What really makes the difference is not survivability but damage. Wraiths are fighting the whole enemy while vikings melt half of it before it gets to them. Wraiths are faster with shorter range and no aoe, but can cloak. So if you put the two units together, wraiths rush ahead and take target priority over the viking. Cloak keeps them safe outside of detection range, and the dodge upgrade makes cloak useful even inside of detection. What really kills the Wraith IMO is that it takes 2 crew while the viking only uses 1. I've used the wraith to provide anti-ground support to an air force of vikings and anti-air support to landed vikings, and they're fine either way. You just need a little more control than a-moving straight from your base into the enemy.
Spooks got so heavily buffed in this mod that they took huge nerfs after you played. 2 spectres and 3 ghosts is all you're allowed now, and you're probably sacrificing 20 crew to get them. Because we found exactly what you were saying, that you could rush the spooks and then solo whole missions with either one. Orca wanted people to enjoy the rest of the mod too.
I want to do a run that makes more use of the less used units, but I've been too busy to get to it yet. One thing I have noted thus far is that marine/medic/marauder work so well together because they have the same speed, and siege tanks match that speed perfectly. Goliaths are slightly faster, so they're always forcing their way to the front, and diamondbacks even without speed upgrades are slightly faster than that, so diamondbacks will always be in front tanking for the goliath. But the siege tanks only got one upgrade. When all you need from them is base defense, the stationary upgrade takes an S tier unit and dials it up to 11. But the mobile upgrade is actually a downgrade because it completely negates the slow push and costs extra gas to do it.
I just finished watching this run for Grant, and I'm downloading it for my next playthrough. Thank you for pointing out the Reaper and Viking+Wraith facts, it will really give me a different army comp to look forward to compared to normal.
@@Jeikobu No problem. Have fun! And, be careful on Moebius Factor and Supernova. Currently I think Moebius is still very aggressive very early, so you can end up with zerglings chewing on your crew before the marines walk up the ramp, and Supernova has turned into a massive escort mission with all your crew walking around. Seriously, I had trouble figuring out where to put them all as I was moving house, and they kept getting attacked on the road. It's worse than agria because you can't make enough ATVs for everyone, and you don't have time to ferry everyone back and forth.
@@Nurk0m0rath Thank you for the advise, Supernova certainly didn't look like the most fun to juggle the crew on, but I'll figure out what works for me as far as managing them.
Wraiths don't have Tempest range in air mode and Colossus range in ground mode.
Wraiths cost more, both in resources and crew.
Wraiths are a lot speedier, meaning it'll be harder to incorporate them into your army.
Three free Wraiths are nice, but they don't have much more going for them.
@@The-jy3yq Yes, I'm aware. I did say that what wraiths lack but vikings have is damage output. Maybe I didn't put enough emphasis on that point, but the fact is that in a lot of circumstances, wraiths with the dodge upgrade and available cloak energy are actually pretty durable in this mod, while Vikings are still paper but have so much damage output it doesn't even matter. I was specifically referring to Grant saying that wraiths were made of paper while praising the viking's durability. Wraiths only *feel* like they're made of paper because they dive into range of everything that can hurt them, rather than shredding it before it becomes a threat.
Honestly, the problem with the wraith is that they step on the toes of 2 units new to starcraft 2: the banshee, and the viking. Each one is specialized to hit air or ground and does their specific job better than the wraith, so the wraith looks bad by comparison. But wraiths are the only air units fast enough to tank for the glass banshee and the only air-vs-air unit that can cloak. I think they need to lean into those two niches with mutually exclusive upgrades that let them choose between free cloaking or giving up cloak entirely for greater durability, maybe even via shields that would let them work in Maw of the Void.
But my main point here is that I've used the wraiths in this mod and it hasn't been that bad. Yes other units can do the job better, but the wraith can still do pretty well as long as it's properly controlled.
Wraiths seems pretty solid considering you get 3 free suits each mission. That can help you for early defence and getting a expansion, then you can replace the suits for vikings or banshees once you get going. Definetely C tier
Gigachad move to make the firebat worse, love it.
just wanted to say that i believe you lost 3-4 thors on the campaign and got them back with the inmortality protocol. So you did use it :D
I only wish for more robot units like warbots. Just in case you lose a lot of crew, but dependencies like Grant said.
agreed, I think it is a neat mechanic, but could use a few more things.
Warbot wouldn't be a dependency issue since you get control of one in Piercing the Shroud normally making it a WOL unit. But I agree. The Raven, Predator, and Mule are not enough robotic units to justify the need for Towers/Medivacs. I would welcome a new building that produced inferior infantry units that were robotic. But by that point you are almost creating another faction.
@@Xelioo7 Fire-bots
Fire-bots
I like how the C tier became the Computer controlled tier
Hey what a great crewlist the rankings are perfect
the wraith actually gets +50% anti ground dps with the burst upgrade, which isnt a lot of damage increase but hey, its better than none
I think the firebat needs a range upgrade and perhaps another durability upgrade. If you give the firebat the same range as the roach it would probably be worth building in some situations
It's still a Firebat.
No damage, quite low durability for tanking, even with Roach range they're still basically melee, armor is low and they require both 100/25/2 and an infantry crew member which are _very_ important early on. Later on, Firebats are, simply put, *useless.*
Of course, depending on the version you're playing the range bonus of the bunker was swapped for a 20% damage increase (so 1 damage because marines) instead of 1 range, so you've gotta pay for the individual upgrades to get back to where you were at with the base WoL bunkers, except you've got a bit more damage.
Once I finish my mono Specter playthrough I want to try this mod again with minimum crew and see what that's like. (kill off all crew you didn't just gain with each mission) I feel like this mod is at its best when you're hurting for crew.
I wish the crew were a resource in this mod rather than having tons of vulnerable little men. I love the idea of having to preserve your units but the extra challenge of managing all the little dudes would exclude me from playing above normal difficult which just isn't worth it (at my skill level I would just get overwhelmed on the harder missions). You still leave in the ability for dudes to jump suits, just not start with 50 crew in the base and have the units cost crew to build instead of have to load them. I appreciate all the work that went to making it work, it is impressive and I didn't enjoy watching the play though.
It is great to watch a passionate gamer use a tier list format to structure an in-depth discussion about interesting topics.
my thought for making the Raven better is if it being a true AI let it move out on its own and can give a large signal area for other drones. You would have to make up for it by making them way more expensive or only being able to have one at a time but making it level up and carry through like ghosts.
I think Grant should split B into B and C, then bump the units currently in C down to D and the units in D down to F. Too many units in B.
Isnt that how statistics work? Where the average should land somewhere in the middle and taper off to the ends into a bell curve?
@@CallsignYukiMizuki Yeah, but almost half of all units were in B. I’d just be slightly
more descriptive this way, plus grant would stop having to say “high B tier.”
I think it does speak to the balancing of the mod. B is supposed to be solid units. Not over or under powered which is where most units should be with good balance
@@colonelh1875 I think that’s great. I just also think that having a B and C would be more descriptive. That’s it.
you forgot prototypes like laser tank and plasma marauder
I think the mercenaries deserve a general buff to balance only having half the potential upgrades, but tweaking firebat and raven is way more important.
I think there should also be buffs given to the static defenses, something to make them less dangerous to your own crew and giving them more advantageous mineral dumps compared to spamming mines every mission.
Turrets and manned guns gain +100 hp and +1 armor from an armory upgrade, and +2 range from another. That's already pretty significant. I do agree the mercs need to be stronger to be worth the double supply though. Currently their only advantage is not consuming crew and it's actually quite easy to be overstocked on crew. I mean, seriously, standard marines with shields have as much hp as the mercs but an additional range.
I may have only played on hard, but when I played this I rushed for Specters and trained up nine of them as soon as possible. I then steamrolled through the rest of the game without losing a single unit because they are just so strong. I had cleared maps I had previously never cleared simply because the Specters can do whatever I need them to do. They can tank, they dish out huge amounts of damage, and they cloak. They can do everything I need them to do, especially when you get their upgrades. The only issue is trying to build up more supply as I start every mission heavily supply blocked
I think you’re undervaluing the advantage of disposability mercs have.
In a mech-based army, using the bio mercenaries means you have a (relatively cheap) meatshield of units that mean *nothing* when they die, while still being decently robust. That IMO takes devil dogs out of D tier (instead into C) and puts both war pigs and hammers into A.
Hammers are a decent meatshield and War Pigs dish out solid amounts of damage, but that's it.
They not only cost a _lot_ of supply, but are on the exact same power level.
So that is why they're in B - they're just solid, not awesome unlike Hell's Angels.
Oh, and Hotdogs? Well, they are bad. They don't have Juggernaut Plating.
I think that Merc Mech is cool. Banshees are kinda disposable('cus they die so, so much) so Duck Wings are your savior(although if you're using them only on All In...well, they're pretty bad); Spartan Company is respectable for what they do and Jackson's is, well, questionable.
for someone who want to rush ghost/spec, i highly recommend rush the sieg tank(they will help you defend while you busy upgrading ghost/spec. and for the mission to farm for exp, i recommend the haven's fall and the cutthroat mission cause the enemy constantly making more unit and there aren't a time limit or someone you need to baby sit like the odin.
p/s: i play the ghost version and waste about an hour for 6 ghost so idk how fast for 6 spec to get up to lv10
Awesome! I am so happy you made this tier list :)
21:12 yeah i'm that "someone", yeah they are bad interm of getting hit but for low defense place with litter to no anti ground unit, they can get still get in drop their bomb and get out wait for self heal.
It's wild how hard he turned on the Firebats and Hellions. At the start of the mod he was like "oh yeah! these have upgrades them make them actually useful!" Then he didn't talk about them for the rest of the playthrough, and now he says they suck. It almost feels unfair.
Hellions are justified, since they are glorified coffins on wheels (very speedy too) for a much needed venicle crew, but Firebats...meh. They still are _not good at all._ Marauders(when massed) are better at dealing with Zergles and Sealots and are better at tanking while retaining their awesome DPS.
Firebats are just not worth the investment.
Wraiths though? I liked them. How they have their _Burst Lasers_ do high burst damage and stuff, three free Wraiths at the start of each mission, looked damn good.
And now they are in D tier...
The moebius factor is a mission that reapers can be useful, so is supernova, if you dodge storms. Still a very heavy micro intensive unit and its not worth the risk for whatever value it brings. Clearly S+ tier
The reaper does deserve S tear because all must fear the reaper man
I've beaten multiple missions on brutal using only 5 specters also with 10 specters with lvl 3 psionic lash you can kill kerrigan in 1 second
I ran the whole campaign just in 1 day, right before the spooky boys limitations to 2
Gotta say, 15 Spectres feel nice, amazing job with the campaign, the crew mechanic works fine, just it's too many of them at the beginning
But nerfing Spectres/Ghosts? Why? It's single player game, I thought it'd be nice if people could choose not to play with those by themselves
And yeah, the supply cap seems kinda odd
Staring off missions with a big group of really powerful units kinda trivializes things and defeats the purpose of having a valuable crew if you never put them in any risk. Also having a limited amount of powerful units that level up is a nice Warcraft 3 like mechanic
If people have the opportunity, they will optimize the fun out of a game. As a game designer, it's your job to prevent them from making the game unfun.
@@bobbyferg9173 I mean if you want to have a challenge, you can avoid spooky boys with your own hands, you know, have this limitation made by yourself, but if you want to have some fun with powerful dudes, imo it's ok and personally I had lots of fun
@@momom6197 nah that's just being opinionated about how the game is meant to be played. And the most popular sandboxes being played by everyone show that people like to be free to do whatever they want. If they want to go for crew only, they can. If they want 10 ghosts, they should be able to do it. A shitty artificial limitation isn't the way to go about it.
@@Xenomorphin1 Yeah, they honestly could've had the ghost/spectre limit be for Brutal only (if that's possible, I don't know since I haven't played SC2, only watched it). Since if you're playing Brutal, you're already looking for a challenge. I just don't understand putting an arbitrary limit like this on a single player game. I wouldn't be surprised if many people don't even play the mod simply because they are being restricted in play styles that feel incredibly arbitrary.
I suppose you could look at it from a story stand point (why would Raynor have more than 2 Ghosts?), but it still takes the wind out of the sails for a lot of people; because people don't like being told what to do when having fun.
And perhaps this is just people blowing things out of proportions, but isn't the point of playing a game to have fun? Honestly, this mod is a great concept and I love it, but this decision seems far too heavy handed when the goal of gaming (at least casually) is to have fun.
Edit: And to address any that say Ghost spam isn't fun, that's your opinion. The fact of the matter is the mod maker has decided to remove one avenue of playing from the mod, which will turn many away from the mod itself, thereby hurting the longevity of the mod (if no one has interest in the mod, why update?). Honestly, it's less a case of removing Ghost spam and more a case of removing options from a player's hand when a player can very very easily just decide to, ya know, not make Ghosts/Spectres.
Do you know if there will be a Leviathan crew and Spear of Adun crew mods ? Great works from the moders and thanks Grant for reigniting my love for this game :-D
The swarm would be the opposite. Neverending zerg.
Spear of Adun would be however good idea. First the protoss lost the Aiur and whole civilization... Then their attack to retake it left them almost wiped out. Also to make Dragoon or Immortal you need almost dead protoss.
Also protoss can teleport so their system would work differently.
Ok technicly terrans can teleport too but it was like one scene.
@@38procentkrytyk meanwhile, at all those old Confederate istallations:
*TELEPORT TO SECTOR B*
I liked every unit and upgrade, the problem of fast units, is the MAP, the campaign dont give you places to use it, firebat and hellions are good on 2 missions in the start.
This mod would be even greater if there were Longer missions and bigger maps.... hmmm
How about a Mod that makes Every Map DOUBLE the Size?? is that possible?
Think with me for a second, the escort mission would have more space to walk around the APC, the infestation hellion map would be very painfull to complete with slow units, bellshir would force you to make a strong army and walk around with it, Char missions wouldnt have the problem of squeezing your army, etc
I Think this would be a Great mod, specially combined with the Crew Mod
I think a possibility is to make a mod where each unit vision, movement speed and range is halved, including enemies. This should include buildings, spell range and aoe damage/ spells but not workers (unless you want to force the player to "macro" heavier, still you can halv their vision)
I played the mod in normal and yeah I can tell rush Tosh mission > unlock Specters > do every defensive missions to build and farm Specters > build 15 specters so always starting with 150 supplies + 50 of default units > crush every missions
it's insane, I loved Medivac mission with army of specters and they're so strong against protoss
Spoilers
With their shild upgrade the Battleship mission is suck a joke with Specters, I really had a lot of fun
You now can have a maximum of 2 spectres apparently(3 if you go ghosts) which is still very strong
@@Corundrom Oh they nerfed them even more ? Pretty understandable they're so strong
I rushed for gohsts and then went to havens fall... I ended up with 10 level 10 gohsts and they were able to solo the vast majority of missions from that point.
Herc drops units upon death in vanilla, too
Literally just give the firebats bonus damage to biological and stim
Once again, Firebat is the lowest of the low. Maybe it's time to get a few tricks out of C&C book on flamethrower units? Otherwise it seems like damage and range buff to match a certain deployable turret made by Swan are in order. As well as lingering flames, flame status effect on enemies and firing in a cone.
Now do hyperion crew mod D tier only.
Having a composition of anti light units with wraiths as the exclusive anti air unit would be torment
Grant, reapers are fucking awesome, against ground if you go mass reaper it works incredible. The regen is fantastic. I made the hellion mission with the reapers and broke my personal record, its a gas cannon but its a regenerating glass cannon. I couldn't use ghosts, i found them incredibly expensive and hard to justify, i don't really use spell casters, i don't have the speed, and the keybindings were bugged in spanish so it annoyed the fuck out of me, i rather control units in space and timing than skillshots. So the reaper for me was amazing. Not having to have medics for them its awesome.
@@aaronscott7467 i absolutely for the life of me cant keep the bastards alive, i lose sight of them constantly.
Fhah, the one (other) mission where Reapers _normally_ shine suddenly becomes a staplemark of their power in this mod?
Bruv, ya sure?
@@The-jy3yq try to use them in most zerg missions they work comically good, even in the moebius factor. as long as i have some ground to air or air to air support. i wouldnt try it against toss, but yeah the regen kinda breaks them in the mod its actually pretty useful to not waste money on medics. against toss it didnt go as great, the gas mission is a bitch to make it work because you actually need the goliats.
Aww yeah!!! I'm loving these tier lists
I thinks the firebat should be C, its true that you need to buy his armor during the mission but then you can us the money normally use in the campagne for other things. Its also à good front frontline figther during the early game of the campagne. Just this help him a lot (but i dont feel his damage upgrade is needed and dont really need firebat for the late game)
*That* is why they are so low.
They are _useless_ in the ending parts, really, _really_ weak at the mid stages and are mediocre at best early in the campaign. Even worse, they are prone to dying very quickly, and that is a massive nerf to your army in the early stages of the campaign.
They are simply not worth it.
Same goes for Reapers.
And, as a nail inthe coffin, Marauders are simply better at Firebat's job than Firebats.
Out of curiosity, I know that in co-op as Swann you can pick up a deployed siege tank in a Hercules and drop it elsewhere still deployed. In this mod, can that be done to a siege tank with the upgrade that keeps them in siege mode all the time? and if not where can I beg Orca to add it in lol, herc/tank micro is too fun and seems like it would be a blast with this mod
I think wraiths are low c tier cause u get 3 of them at the start of the mission and the dodge and insta energy abilities plus the 3 vollies make it very microable but u have to be good something I am most definitely not but other than that they could really set you up in the early game of each mission in doing stuff like when you get the Odin going behind base 2 and 3 and weakening them. Also YOU FORGOR the laser tank the big boi marauder and the Uber marines.
I found warpigs to be the best mercenary and useful on most early missions. As marines are not as good do to there ability to die easily and enmass, you can instead use warpigs to kill all the air and losses don't hurt so badly. After I got the Goliath, I never used them again.
grants like "firebats suck" bro of course they do, its a firebat
Reapers are S tier for sure... because "reap the whirlwind"!
no APC ? and more importantly, no laser tank?
Sorry Grant... But i remember you that you lose 2 Thor in "Welcome to the jungle"... Panicking obviously for the 8 crew inside XD
Also the experimental laser tank is S+.
The experimental marauder at least S I would say, and I still don't know what the special marines do.
The marines have more health (110 I believe), deal bonus damage to light, and have a 10% chance to fire an incendiary grenade instead of their regular attack.
Firebat should go into its own tier: F (for Firebat).
I feel like a nova crew mod would be super fun
Reapers are good on two missions break out and then the reaper mission
4:33 Waiting for Ghost only run with Nightmare difficulty.
Could you give a tier list for the UED mod after the 1.4 update?
Hey Grant, zealots only didn't workout, but what about stalkers only? You get alongside zealots, so the start is possible.
He actually did this already - IIRC, he did it before Zealots only, even (on the assumption that Zealots only would be probably impossible). It's on the archive channel, though it doesn't have a main channel video
@@Grey_Box_101 oh
4:35 And don't get me started on the spectre. 45+ damage/attack? Thank god Orca fixed these 2. I bet I can solo Kerrigan on all in with one.
Two actually, and you can do it even now
@@АндрейЯковлев-п1з I ment auto attack only, with psi lash you can do anything.
@@lucifersatan8240 nah, impossible, she always get only six with auto attack and 25% of spell damage
@@АндрейЯковлев-п1з Forgot the hardened shield.
Diamondback is D tier, because it is completely useless except for the mission it was introduced.
Vulture is C tier, there is no point of mines for defence when there are siege tanks and bunkers.
Ghost is B tier - because it requires a lot of valuable micro.
No point for mines?
STs need gas and venicle crew and are famous for their friendly fire, Bunkers suck most of the time (generally with clumps of enemies), so I don't really see where you're going with that
Diamondback is D tier? Boy, you're wrong, it is very good. Although it gets completely inviable when comparing them to STs, they do have a role - combine them with Goliaths and you have the third-to-best mech comp, even just mass Diamondbacks are really really solid, these things do so much damage and are pretty bulky too, while they don't have Thor issues(speed and fat) or ST issues (Tank mode is practucally useless and Siege Mode needs time)
Because of that, they're quite mobile and get where you told them to go without any problem
The reaper will be S tier once i mod the mod to double their range and let them shoot air
Think you could do a real scale version of this?
sorry for the necropositng, but I'm wondering if tankivacs are working here? because if yes, then the advanced siege mode tanks wold be cheating
Is there a link to read up what upgrades there is for the Hyperion crew mod? Both armory and unit upgrade
I want to know tier of the truck ;)
No laser tank?
I would have put medic in A since marauders and ghosts are so good, you can easily win Everything with marauder ghost medic
day 68 of asking grant to do reapers only
good luck buddy, we’re rooting for you
How long until your copium reserve runs dry?
It will be not possible because you need 4 mission befor you get reaper the first three mission and then smash and grab or agria after that you get a chance to get the reaper
Did you take psychic damage from the reapers ranking in this video?
@@WonderlandGhost yes
What about the prototype units? The marauder, tank, and thor?
Thor on Piercing the Shroud is normal, _completely normal._
Last I've heard, the devs wanted him removed 'cus it was a bit dumb to put him where he was
The third prototype-type(duh) units were Uber Marines who initially had very simple firebombs on autocast, they seemed to ge a buff and get real pretty
The list of B tier
WoL reaper only, when?
Where does tha lazer tank fit? S tier?
Did anyone else get the Tauren space marine?
Why are Wraiths in D?
They deserve to be in C with their three free Wraiths being a not bad option for early game, especially after the burst _Burst Lasers_ upgrade
Addendum: Imagine if we had Mercenary Wraiths. Just imagine...
UED: First Light tier list.
I'll tell the story the short way: Infantry D or C tier, Mech B or A and air either C or S
As easy as that
Random comment for channel interaction.
You forgot the prototype laser tank... Is he Double S tier?
You really should have split B tier into B+ and B-
Grant you forgot the best s-tier unit, the scv, smh...
You forgot the truck
How good is the truck
Golioth is B tier in the normal game
:(
Should be A now
Rate mr laser tank
Lol
Challenge for you. Hyperion mod mercs, and support units only.
Didn't rate the truck 0/10, terrible video.
1:11
TASKKILL /F /IM python.exe
why did something decide to kill python? no idea
I just had a thought.. you can't move the sieged siege tank with a medivac right?
Nope, no Tankivacs
Although would be real nice if the drop upgrade would've allowed this