home made epoxy granite cnc - part 1 machine bed
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- Опубліковано 2 чер 2024
- Mostly time laps recording of the build process of a little epoxy granite router.
All done in my garage with a very basic set of tools. The only machines used so far is a small drill press and a home made circular panel saw, for cutting wood and aluminum.
More information on this build you'll find here: dangeroustools.com/category/cnc/ - Наука та технологія
I must have watched this series of you making your CNC a hundred times over and yet it never gets old. Very clever & well done :)
All my life I’ve been taking epoxy for granite.
😂👍
This looks great. I'm looking forward to seeing the rest of this build.
Great stuff, love the design!
Very exciting! I'm looking forward for more videos!
Fantastic! Looking forward to seeing what comes next.
I am SO impressed! Beautiful work
Amazing, also looking forward to the rest of the videos! Nice stuff!!
Very nice can’t wait to see remainder of videos .. shows how much work is in just one part of a complex system .. nice !!
I'll add to the chatter. I'm super excited to see this build!
I cant wait to see it run!
New subscriber and we love discovery of new UA-cam machine builders machine shops and general creator people. We are two guys in the California Desert USA enjoying this build look at your work it is coming out so well. Nice way to come up with holding your upper build into the epoxy. Very good looking solid rigid base. we enjoyed this part of your build. Lance & Patrick.
That's fantastic!! You sir, have another subscriber... Looking forward to the rest of the series. Been wanting to build my own CNC milling machine for a few years now, and this looks to be the way to do it.
best one ive seen on youtube yet man hands done.
A lot of thought was put into this design I think. And screws .....
Great project!
Awesome. Cant wait to see more.
Great ingenuity. I am really impressed
The most impressive part of your build is your METROLOGY! Good and proper use of dial gauges... [also the music is HYPNOTIC! (in a GOOD way)]
Great job Stef.
The machine you are building is awesome.
And using Epoxy too. the best way to go for any DIY CNC Mill.
John
Australia
Why is it better than concrete? Is it heavier, or more rigid? (I'm pretty sure it's not cheaper)
Just curious
Nice video, AWESOME music!
Отличная работа!!!
going to be a very nice machine, will you be sharing the CAB model you have ?, im looking to build my own DIY VMC
Subbed. Looking forward to your progress vids.
Heck yes keep it up buddy! Really interested to see your progress and final results!
Awesome! I particularly liked the light check for flatness at the end that's a very good and under used technique. When you proof out the design please consider sharing the CAD.
nicely done!
Amazing, congratulations, great work! I intend to do similar. What is the specification of epoxy resin?
Thank you!
Nice design.
Wonderful video!
can you please help with the ratios of aggregrate and epoxy used for this build ?
@Joerg Beigang, Congratulations. This is awesome work! If you don't mind me asking, do you have plans to share you CAD files?
Thanks. That's the first cnc machine I'm building. So before I encourage someone doing the same (mistakes), I'll make sure it works. Just casted the base for the z axis, but the CAD data is still not stable yet. I still got to do some work on the x axis...
Nice project! What kind of steel bar profile you used? Hot/cold rolled, stainless or regular etc? Thanx
Great work with good accuracy. Does the machine bed made with epoxy granite requires any machining operations after casting??
That depends on what accuracy you are aiming for. The aluminum itself doesn't come 100 percent straight. In the casting process it's getting a little deformed as well (the wood isn't straight, deformations because of the load of the mix, shrinking...). Here I ended up with 2/10th of a millimeter. This could be shimmed out of course. But I'll prefer to have the aluminum itself as straight as possible. So I'll take off half a millimeter on a traditional mill. Also thought about lapping it on a thick glass surface (that's the most straight surface I got in that dimensions). Guess scraping would be a good technique as well (I never did it myself).
Nice job, the router has simple geometry. Did you think to include tubes for the coolant and electrical lines?
Thanks! Yes, thinking about putting a steel pipe in the z axis. Could be a good reinforcement and an elegant way to keep cables and tubes organized. But first I'm trying to get the cad data of the x axis stable...
Really cool and creative solution! Are you going to do the Z-Axis Mount in the same material?
Yes, planned to do both, x and z the same way.
Весьма достойно уважения!..
Subscribed! Thank you for the quality content. I'm excited to see how this pans out. I've been kicking around the idea of building something exactly like this for the last couple of years, but I've been too busy with other machines to get around to even designing one. Do you plan to make your design public?
Making it public could be an idea. But first I got to make sure everything is going to work like planned. I'm afraid there gonna be some more design loops till it will be final. Especially because it's the first time I'm doing this, but I'm looking forward to learn
Joerg Beigang that sounds like a reasonable plan. I look forward to watching your progress!
nice project, looking forward following this build here. is there slight bow in the rails at 10:02 and if so, is this a problem? I guess you can shim or even scrape it to perfection, if so...
In fact it's not that slight. It's about 2/10 of a millimeter. In three weeks I'll flat it out on a traditional mill at the shop of a friend.
But I never expected it to come out perfectly. I'm more then happy with the result.
why not vibrating the mold to get air bubbles out? all you need is some electric motor with an offcenter weight on the shaft strapped somewhere. You could even use a oscillating sander and press it on the mold while it's running.
Btw. I like your style of building the reinforcement, I was looking for something where I wouldn't need to weld anything.
nice poster!
Reef calendar. My favorite :-)
wonder if you can treat it like cement and use vibration to lay it out flat
P.s. in concrete apparently fumed silica adds very good damping properties so might be a nice addative for epoxy too?
@P F If you are interested here is a paper comparing latex (which may be what is commercially called SBR) and fumed silica. www.researchgate.net/publication/226620051_Improving_the_vibration_damping_capacity_of_cement
What kind of compound did you use to cover the bolt holes?
This is a GREAT design. I might copy it in regular concrete.
regular concrete shrinks
@@sergegostoli9524 Homebrewing my linear bearings so that they can be adjusted manually. They will be a bit higher.
@@lowellhouser7731 the think abut concrete creep is that it occurs over a long period (years) with a concrete design you will have a concrete beam with a face with a much higher tensile strength, hence it will warp with time, you might be able to counter this with some tension rods on the unconstrained side tat would need to be periodically adjusted but it is a complicated system and assumes you are able to measure the mean deviation on the assembled machine.
This is the reason why machine builders use polymer concrete despite it's much higher cost instead of ordinary concrete or even UHPC
@@sergegostoli9524 Are you familiar with the names Lucien Yeomans and Pat Delaney? Yeomans pioneered the use of concrete in large machine tools circa 1914. Pat Delaney discovered this lost technology and began a Yahoo group that began refining the design for small scale and even third world primitive conditions. Everything is designed to be adjustable in perpetuity. Round ways for a lathe, allowing them to be rotated when worn and then replaced. And the machine base is so cheap that if a problem emerges that can't be adjusted for then it gets Jack hammered into pieces and recast. I'm doing something similiar. Eventually I will do an epoxycrete version once the bugs are worked out and I can scale up.
@@lowellhouser7731 my understanding of yeomans lathes is that the metal slide were fitted after casting with low shrinkage "gluing" 'low heat allows pours), and that the machine bad was massive in comparison to the metal parts, anyways you are free to try, but if I can give you one advice do not hesitate to use the maximum amount of concrete fludifiers in your mix so as to get the water to cement ratio as low as possible since water is the prime culprit in shrinkage, also go for fine aggregates (no more than 10mm for the coarse aggregate)
Great work! Are you going to use steppers or some of these hip JMC servo's?
Thanks. I'm planning to use normal steppers.
@@joergbeigang Just take a look at the currently available v6 versions of the jmc's. They have an auto tune feature. I'm using them on my machine (the v5, that requires more manual tuning) and they are very impressive. Don't be misled by their relative low torque ratings, they are excellent performers.
How many parts of sand, stones and epoxy did you use for that mix? One guy on here said he had complications using stones in his mix causing air gaps and he even used a shaker board to try to get all the air out. He ended up just using sand and epoxy.
Why are you not connecting with metal altogether the linear rail base and the ball screw base?
Is this your design? I have imagined doing something similar for a few years now. :-) What is the mix for the epoxy granite, if you don't mind me asking?
Yes, that's my design. For the mix I used some gravel, maybe 10 to 20 mm long pieces and enough sand to fill the space between the gravel stones. A bit more sand makes the handling easier - it behaves more "liquid". The same with the resin. With my my sand gravel mix I figured it should be less then 15 percent resin. Too little resin on the other hand makes the mix dry and there is a good chance for air bubbles in the cast. You got to play a bit around and do some test casts. I used those small tupperware boxes for that. With them you don't need wax and they come already with an draft angle, so it's easy to get the pieces out later on. And the most important: the sand and the gravel got to be very dry.
How did you get the plates to stay in level with one another during the epoxy pouring process?
They are screwed to the mold. That kept them within a few tenth of a mill. Of course they needed to be planed afterwards.
What is the resin you used? I read your website but yo only mentioned from amazon for moulding.
It doesn't really have a brand name on it. I bought it on Amazon Germany, so it might not be helpful for you, but here's the link:
www.amazon.de/gp/aw/d/B019286D6A/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Great job can u tell me any kind of epoxy u use. Or any epoxy resin can make epoxy granite
I ordered some affordable online, with a slow hardener. Can't really remember what brand it was. Did some tests with it before to figure out the right mixture and to get a feeling for the mix, and when I was happy with the results I went for it. As there's only about 10 to 12 percent of epoxy in the mixture the shrinking of the epoxy isn't that big of an issue
Was there a particular reason for incorporating rocks or pebbles to your brew VS only sand? I feel larger solids would add more considerations to the build. It looks pretty solid and avoids concerns of mechanical run out of the build
In theory it should be stronger with bigger gravel pieces.
I can't really tell if it's true. I did some tests before and I tried to use just enough sant to fill the gaps between the gravel. Somehow I found the handling better if it's a little more sand.
But that's strictly non scientific.
In the end you got to do some tests and see how it's coming out. And it's not all about perfect properties of the epoxy granite. IMHO it's more important how it handles while casting.
@@joergbeigang I totally agree. I ask because someone did a test with various combinations and volumes of rocks, pebbles. Sand, and iron to epoxy. They found a certain ratio of sand and epoxy to be the strongest. They're were a lot of variables to their tests and was curious as to how or why you chose rocks as a comparison. Awesome job regardless! Keep up the great work and momentum!
@@icantthnkof1 I did a bit of research on the internet before and after all I read I thought it's a good idea to start simple, using just fine sand and some gravel. I did some small test parts and I didn't see any reason to change that.
The only parameter I changed was the amount of resin. I tried ratios between 10 and 17 percent. I didn't measured at what load they snap, but I tried to measure the deflection with the same force applied. I couldn't measure anything really significant. The results were pretty close together. At this point I didn't dig any deeper.
In the end it's a pretty strong material, and if the volume is big enough (and the shape is right) it will do it's job.
Hello Sir! This looks fantastic. what did you use as a mould remover or vaks etc. ? OSBs are easily removed from the cast. Could you please reply?
Hi, I used some liquid, wax based release agent. You can find it everywhere where they're selling materials for composite
@@joergbeigang Thank you
Nice job :D
I work making composite parts and give it 9/10 :)
I've just watched your entire build series! Great videos! Do you plan on making the CAD available ?
Happy you liked it.
Actually yes. I'm working on a fully parametric model, that will output the plans for the mold and all the metal parts.
It's somehow in alpha status at the moment, and I'm procrastinating a bit when it comes to writing an understandable documentation.
@@joergbeigang That's awesome! I'll keep an eye out for that - where should I look? your channel? your website?
@@loulimina I might do a video here. Just got to get comfy with the idea of speaking in front of the camera 😂
@@joergbeigang Looking forward to it! BTW, all the metal surfaces on your mill are steel right? pt. 7 is has aluminum in the title, so I'm wondering.
I used aluminum
Good job! Can we have the 3d or 2d plan of your machine and the list of materials used?
First I should make sure what I'm building here is going to work. Wouldn't be nice to encourage people to do the same mistakes I might do here ;-)
Hi, have you tried to measure some deviation coming from thermal expansion ?
Not really. But I assembled parts in summer time and others in February. At the final assembly I double checked everything with the straight edge and it looked all right. Better than I expected. Had of course my concerns because of the aluminum. Later I saw this video here ua-cam.com/video/OLiTHuVI0mY/v-deo.html (7:40) and was very surprised that Kern is using aluminum on epoxy granite. They are using it for thermal reasons, I used it because I'm not having the possibility to machine steel.
Guess the key is to keep the aluminum-epoxy granite ratio as small as possible. Didn't know that before ...
What is the "recipe" you are using for you epoxy granite? For one how much epoxy are you using.
I'm using a mix of sand and gravel (10 - 20 mm). I made some tests before and then decided to use about 13 percent of epoxy. With less the mix was getting very dry and I had problems with air bubbles inside. The sand got to be very dry.
@@joergbeigang It is 13% by weight or by volume?
@@joergbeigang I'd also have used some finer stuff (for example "Fugensplit" in german). that stuff would easily fill in the gaps between the rougher stones and sand grains
@@veloclubustrem1039 weight
Methinks ZERO SAND AND GRAVEL.... ROCK DUST,.... MINERAL DUST OF ANY TYPE,.... with epoxy enough to allow levelling.... will be my effort.
you can see it warped :( at the top light gets through... use a slow setting epoxy less heat and more stable
good morning my friend instead of resin i could use pure concrete or would i have a problem?
Concrete (UHPC) is a good option. Would be interesting to compare epoxy granite with UHPC.
Hi can I ask you a question, do you think its possible to make a lathe with epoxi?
of course you can using this method !!!
@@juliomarte9046 thank you for your answer, I'll try to find the ideal type of epoxi here in Brasil.
hello good afternoon what components do you use in this dough?
Hello, what problems are you having with the sled and the rails? Gap stuck etc?
So far it's all good with the linear rails
@@joergbeigang thank you bro
The height scraping tool, what is it called?
Hopefully when you send it out to be squared they machined rail guides otherwise linear rails are prone to shift.
Hallo Jörg eine frage, was bitte ist dieses weiß was du in deiner Gußform in die Ecken pinselst? Epoxyharz mit Holzleim oder Latexfarbe?
Hallo Gerry, war erst Silikon, später Acryl. Zum Einen, um die Form abzudichten, zum Anderen um eine kleine Verrundung auf die Kanten zu bekommen.
@Joerg Beigang Which did you use type and thickness of alluminium for creating bed?
I used some 10mm 5000 aluminum. Think it was almg4
@@joergbeigang Could I need to use 6061 or 7075 instead of steel for accuracy? Wich is material yours coordinate table? I could to buy steel table from old milling cutter 700х400mm. Is better alluminium table? Wich will you recomend alluminium series instead steel? Did you use shaker table?
@@petrovsergey2470 I'd say steel is the best. I don't have the tools to work with steel in that dimensions, so I used aluminum. But just because I can easily work with it. If I had to choose between steel and aluminum I'd went for steel all the way.
Same for the alloy, I used 5000 aluminum, because I had quite a bit of it and I had a source to get more for a good price.
Go man
Can you post the cost for just the base, column and X carriage(no rails or ballscrews)? Thanks! Better than a Tormach hands down!
I didn't really keep track on the costs too much...
I try to get it together.
Resin 90€
Gel coat 30€
Color for the gel coat 10€
Steel and aluminum about 100€
Screws about 40€
Thread inserts 20€
Chip board maybe 30€
Silicon and acryl 10€
Pu paint 25€
Sand and gravel was very cheap
And lots of hours
How good it really is I will see when I start milling. If vibrations and resonances will be a problem is hard to tell now.
Hi, I have a question, where did you get the granite epoxy materials?
I ordered some epoxy online, bought a bag of fine sand at a local hardware store and the white gravel was a leftover I had from the garden. Very important is to dry the sand before
@@joergbeigang very interesting I thought that granite was like marble or something similar, Do you think it really works and does it absorb vibration and vibrating sounds? thanks
From me it's working. I can't compare it to commercially made epoxy granite, but it's far beyond other solutions I could have realized in my shop. Maybe concrete would be another option.
Of course it's vibration damping and the hight of the resonance frequency depends on the mass of the part and even more important on it's shape. The worst properties I found in the column. Due to it's narrow and long shape. But even there the resonance frequency is that low that it isn't of any concern for me.
As I've already written, you gotta do some tests. The mixture isn't that expensive, so you could also cast some bigger test pieces and investigate their properties.
All good, apart from the bit where you screwed those 3 bits of aluminium Engineering Plate to a bit of old chipboard. So, how flat was that chipboard?...Before you screw those Ball Slide Rails on, lap, or flash grind the plates flat. It will only ever be as good as that bit of Chipboard you screwed it to. If you are routing wood, its probably good enough I guess.
Y de donde compro el plano
Next time use PVA instead of wax, apply generous amount with paint brush. You will have an easy time releasing the mold.
Better yet, do both. Plenty of layers of wax and then PVA. That's the proper way;)
My favorite part was getting it 'out ouf' the mold :P Great video though
Alguém saber o motor que ele está usando???
If you have aluminum and steel surfaces touching, you might want to look into galvanic corrosion
You are thinking about the linear rails touching the aluminum surface? For sure I don't want to build a Landrover Defender here ...
1:44 screws too large? what size rails and screws are they?
20mm are the rails and I used m6 screws.
@@joergbeigang my 20mm rails have a 6mm hole in them which is a clearance hole for M5 screws. Might be why your M6 caps didn't fit...
M5 felt a little flimsy to me, and the clearance for the screw was just enough for adjusting the rails, only the heads were a little too big.
Wonder if a vibrating table might have helped
Pretty sure it would have helped. I guess from a certain size on it won't work well without one.
top
will it get scraped?
That would be a great way. But I won't do it. I don't know how to do it or better I never did it, and I'm not having a big and straight enough reference surface. It would also be a pretty big job I guess. In x direction the threads are perfect, but in z direction I'm 2/10 of a mil off (measured with straight edge and a feeler gauge).
I go the easy way and take off half a mil on a traditional mill.
@@joergbeigang Great job. A creative way to get rigidity and stability. Carry on. However, if you are going to get deeper into a machine building hobby, scraping is an essential skill. For instance, say you mount rails but tightening them down twists them slightly, and the truck binds. You could scrape the rails to fit the bed. Then even if the bed isn't perfect the rails will adapt. Scraping is not difficult, the tools and materials are cheap, yet you can achieve greater precision than any machine you could buy.
@@southbendkid Yes, I definitely should get into scraping. A while ago I watched the video of Dan Gelbard about scraping and lapping - absolutely fascinating. But as I was already writing earlier I'm not having a good and big enough reference surface. The piece of granite I'm using for marking is just a scrap piece of granite I got from a local stonemason. It's good enough for marking, but that's it.
But I guess the best would be to get a scraper and just go for it on a scrap piece of aluminum or steel.
@@joergbeigang Im not saying this is a good idea LOL but you could actually create a perfectly flat reference surface by scraping three plates, removing small errors each time until you have a perfectly flat surface. Should be ready to use in about 6 months haha Cool project!
@@manberdo it is not completely true and it will be difficult for such large surface.
can I ask for dimensions for X,Y,Z linear rails and ballscrews? Length and type. Thanks!
sure, they are x 600, y 450 and z 350mm x 20mm. The length of the ball screws are according to the travel of each axis. The rails are Chinese CHTR and about the ball screws I got actually no idea what brand they might be.
And the travel is 330mm, 235mm and 180mm.
@@joergbeigang Thank you so much! Could you also reveal how it turned out in the long run? Are you still using it? I think youve done something incredible here and people are definetely curious to hows it going !
@@piotrilja9211 Actually I had my whole workshop in a storage for two years. Had to temporary leave the country for some family reason and just last month I moved everything in a new garage. So I used it less then planned in the last years.
But used it enough to figure out a few things. First of all I'm not so happy with the 2KW spindle. It just doesn't have enough torque in the speeds where you'd like it to have torque, The assembly of the Z axis is made of aluminum which isn't the best when it comes to vibrations, and I should have made the z axis longer, at least 100mm. Especially with a vise and a little longer end mill it's getting quite tight. And a few things I overcomplicated design wise.
For sure the wheels where it's on are way too flimsy. One wheel broke when moving it off the trailer and now I got to find a way to replace it.
Right now I'm too busy to find some time to take care of it, but I'm planning some project for the winter month. Till then I'm trying to get it all in good running condition again.
Mystified by your determination and methodology. The hardest part I imagine is coming in terms with the lack of means and resources needed to meet high criteria in accuracy and performance. Your work is living proof of the value of exercising rationalism in any task. Kudos to you Joerg! Remain creative
Tille Idee! Ich sage mal voraus, dass deine Abos demnächst steigen...
Methinks testing against K-Board is a waste of time.
MDF is probably more stable. I understand Automotive AntiFreeze will stabilize wood, but skeptical.
Major content is water, but Glycol itself might achieve results desired.
Personally, EPOXYGRANITE will be my next endeavour.
ATM, ButcherBlock and Potassium/SodiumSilicate as waterproofing stabilizer .... TBC'd
what is the 2nd song?
Moby - After (iamamiwhoami Remix)
Круто! По индикатору выставлять рельсы, которые закреплены на ДСП! Нахрена! ДСП даёт разбег по крепежу плюс минус 2 мм! Лёгкий удар и все сместится! Может дальше будет что-то стоящее? Не знаю. Дальше не смотрю. Времени жалко.
what materrial
Like
Couldn't tolerate the music, so I muted it and played the Portal 2 sound track in the background instead. Would recommend, 10/10.
The subject matter drew me in, the music kept me there. I love Moby and this mix is great **subjectively** speaking. That said, great project, great execution.
Надо было брать и использовать бетон 😆
💪💪💪🇵🇭
great build but the guy in the background music going uuuhhh all the time was kinda annoying
Please don't slide the lineal on the surface!
Why is that? The straight edge is gonna wear out? Always happy to get good advice. I'm obviously not a machinist ...
@@joergbeigang
Just from this perspective: Your ruler is about 0.001mm straigt. Just approximate how often you have to slide it before trippling the tolerance to 0.003. All of your workshop has partikels and every one of it is more or less abrasive. Take this in mind and this tool can last for many years.
You may not a machninist but you're much more inovative than most.
(German CNC mechanic/ engineer)
@@OleZZ222 makes totally sense. Thx, I'll avoid that in the future!
？？？？？ why？
Too much resin...8% is ideal....;)
Often heard about very low percentages of resin. I made some tests before from 10 percent upwards, but the low percentages didn't handle very well and I didn't like the result. What's the downside of a higher percentage apart of economical reasons?
Personally I prefer a little less good material properties and a cast with less air bubbles inside then the other way around.
@@joergbeigang getting closer to the ideal matters for much larger structures. To get closer you would want a more complex aggregate mix, with 3 or 4 different sizes and an agitator. It doesn't seem worth the extra time and effort.
@@joergbeigang theoretically the same principles as for cement-based concrete apply...up to a certain point, more aggregate (less binder) actually makes it stronger! The toughest concretes available have a consistency quite similar to "wet" mix you had, they do not flow at all and have to be compacted.
why not simply fix the rails on a granite surfaceplate?
easier and cheaper
Yes, if I'd blown up the aluminum support for the rails to a thickness of 30 mm it would work (because of the clearance for the ball screw and the stepper). For sure not a bad way to do it. Not sure if it would be cheaper. This piece is about 30 Euro for epoxy, maybe another 10 for gel coat and wax. Sand and gravel comes almost for free and the wood ain't expensive as well.
But most important for me was that I'll give this technique a try. It's got a lot of potential, especially for shapes more complex then a cube (a 4th axis for example)
You don't need to have any rail supports really, it's really easy to knock out a slot with a tile saw to sink the ballscrew underneath the surface of the plate. Just get the rail directly on the granite. It is a right PITA to do all the threaded inserts though. A hybrid approach can also work well, which is what I ended up doing myself, laminating solid blocks of granite and steel plates with epoxy. Not as flexible as a full epoxy granite, but still let you get odd shapes without a ton of work.
@@markmedrano8073 do you have pictures, I'd love to see it
I have a couple of videos showing it on @siieefpv