How easily can a SWORD cut off a SPEARHEAD? | FUNCTIONAL FANDOM
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- Опубліковано 30 сер 2022
- How easy is it for a sword to cut a spearhead off and is it viable in combat?
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#medievalmisconceptions
Just for everyone's reference, the wood of all shafts cut into in this video are Tasmanian Oak, a class three timber hardwood. Not the heaviest or densest, but it is tough and durable. My wacky stick, the one I test against nun chucks, is made of the same and I've broken many boards with it.
WOW!
Hey Shad how's the next book coming along?
do a video about medieval police
and bandit
Thanks, I was just about to ask :D
I guess the secret weapon is an axe. I'm basing my guess on the weapon triangle of Fire Emblem game series.
One thing to take into account is that if you cut through most of the shaft, but not all, a strong thrust from the spearman could break it off, especially if it hits a shield or strong armor. One or two of these cuts could be enough in that case.
That was my first thought after the very first cut... only one single good hit could be enough... imagine a spearman x sword and shield: spearman attacks, sword guy blocks with the shield and strikes at the shaft at the same time. Probably would break the spear... or maybe a big strike with the sword followed by a block
Agreed, however the spearman isn't going to try to hold the shaft stiff against the force or give you such a great a cutting angle easily - afterall they want to win and that is much easier with a weapon in good condition, so they are going to allow the shaft to move with the cut, possibly even start moving it before you hit to their advantage AND you are going to only be given very tricky angles to really get a good cut on - non of this extra helpful 'oh please do cut my spear tip off Mr Shad, its ever so heavy...' Which means you are I would suggest very unlikely to ever get the opportunity to cut into the shaft powerfully in a real fight, what you are likely to get rather more light shaved out chips outs of the shaft and that won't weaken the shaft near as much.
Obviously it can and will happen in a real battle, and get a bit unfortunate in where the hit land in relation to the wood grain and even one hit may be enough that striking with the head will break the shaft in the process and take most of the sting out of that hit as it does so. But its not going to be as easy as it looks here.
@@foldionepapyrus3441 true... in a 1x1 scenario, would probably be difficult to find that good angle... in battle, it would be easier to try that cut while the spearman is impaling your friend next to you, granted that the spearman's friend would be trying to do the same to you 😅
@@gimilijonnes Yes, but that only works in formation battles as a tactic, where you (sword) have a lot harder time getting close and the spearmen don't go after you to stay in formation.
In dogfights it's down to chance, but there might be a situation here or there where you could give an enemy spear a good whack to weaken it.
@@foldionepapyrus3441 in a battle where everybody is shoulder on shoulder the spear most likely will not be able to "move with the strike" as it will simply be caught on the neighbour which makes it viable on battlefield imho.
in 1 vs 1 what you said is absolutely tru cause then there is space.
"Aha! I just cut off the head of your spear! Surrender now!"
"Fool! My spear was imbued with Hydra blood..."
Suddently, the spear now have three spearheads.
Suddenly a trident! Though there’s an idea there, Might be interesting seeing how tridents do against swords and other weapons as makeshift sword catcher/breakers/skewers.
Yep this is gonna be a magic item for a DND boss now
When he gets bloodied he loses his spear shaft and it becomes a trident of returning that he uses legendary actions to cause lightning in the path it flew? Give it to players as a spear with an extra D6 of lightning that can be swapped to a returning trident with 2 charges of lightning bolt once per day?
@@duckdictator6531 the players would probably be so confused with this boss XD
No you don't have a spear now fool, you have a trident and you've thrown off the mass distribution your used to.
The Hydra replaced the severed head with two new heads. So there is no way to turn a spear into a trident with one cut. You'd need two cuts for that and it would not be symmetrical. There is no way to create a symmetrical trident from a spear in Hydra blood. One cut will result in a bident. I 'll see myself out now, thanks.
I think spears were expected to break in due course, but one thing you mentioned at the beginning that is good to keep in mind, those strikes were with a willing opponent who was resisting the strike. Two strikes is I think a very optimistic perspective for real world situations. I was surprise at how few hit it took though. That first test with six or so hit I figured would be pretty standard.
A few things to consider aswell:
1. there is no reason to hold your spear fixed in front of your opponent to give him a chance to chop off the tip. You stab and pull it back.
2. Shad used easy predictable, widely telegraphed swings to get enough power. Which would give you enough time to reposition yourself, your weapon and even go for a counter attack.
I think the idea to go for your oppenents spear is super situaltional and very seldom a good idea. Better would be to close the distance and I think more common would be to just grab the spear or fixate it with your shield. So yeah "optimistic perspective for real world situations." fits well.
@@nostalji75 would keeping the spear on the outside of your sword and approaching also be a reasonable idea?
@@papercamera2989 Sounds like one.
I am no expert in ancient warfare, but the most logical thing to me (in a sword vs spear fight) would be for the sword fighter trying to close the distance. Meanwhile trying to get some control of your opponents weapon in any way, surely sounds like reasonable idea. It probably sounds a lot easier than in a real life scenario with plenty of 'what ifs' and an opponent trying to counter what you are doing.
Are you planning on filming a fight?
Also the weapon will be in motion and fluid hypothetically to skilled combatants, the spearmen will not let him weaken his weapon like that and instead just counter attack forcing the swordmen to do not that.
@@nostalji75 lindybeige did a video "spears are better then swords" with a two handed gripe a spear is a monster. as u said Shad swings opened him completely to get stabbed all over. he will die before he can land the blow. your points are spot on.
What I find really interesting here, is the implications for Zweihander combat in Pike Formations. Since we do have some accounts of Dopplesolder's cutting through pike shafts. So depending on the sharpness of the sword and the thickness of the wood, perhaps the landsknecht really could cut through pike shafts. That would be my suggestion for a future video, Zweihander vs Pike shaft.
I think the added mass would help, too. Sufficiently weakening a pole weapon is almost as good as a clean cut in some cases
I think it's one of those things that happened, and was real, but rare, especially since Pikes would be even more of a pain to cut due to exaggerated dimensions of the Polearm, and Sword, while having the same sized combatants. I think a Grosse Messer, Falchion or Claymore, or Even a Poleaxe would be a good test as well.
Even if it didn't cut through, an oberhau strike from the side against the shaft would channel more than enough force to just push down all the pikes that the blade's length can reach across. At that point your own allied pikemen or your own following upwards sweep would finish off the enemy pikemen at least in the first line.
Dopplesolders actually broke pikes using the weight of the sword against the ground, snapping it with the ground as leverage. They couldn’t do it with just a clean cleave.
I think this demonstration gives a good example of "possible" vs "practical" - it is *POSSIBLE* to cut through a spear/quarterstaff with a sword, but it requires multiple full-power strikes to the same position on the shaft, which may not be PRACTICAL in combat.
Something nobody seems to be talking about, though: cutting the head off a spear doesn't disarm a spearman, it turns him into a quarterstaffman.
now your enemy can attack faster, and there’s still a chance that the end you cut off is relatively sharp due to no chance of a perfectly cut, so if you don’t have any face protection you’re still not exactly safe
@@cosmosyn2514 even assuming the shaft ends up perfectly blunt, a quarterstaff is still a deadly weapon, and spear techniques are still effective, you just can't kill with a thrust as easily. A 10 lb 2" ash pole thrust into the nose or throat will still kill from blunt force alone.
It only took a single hit to degrade the shaft making it most likely to fail on a hit
@@davefletch3063 it took a full-strength log-splitting swing onto a shaft which was being held to receive that swing for maximum effect. in a real fight, if you wound up for a swing like that, you'd die of a spear in your throat before you ever got a chance to start swinging.
@@ShuRugal Yeah, the force of the blow required a mighty wind up that completely telegraphs the attack. It's one thing to chop a wooden staff. It's another to do that while the spear is stabbing at your face and throat, with almost no wind up.
I believe that in historical context the "breaking a pike" or "breaking a spear" - often in context with Landsknechts - meant that they broke the formation so that pikes from the other side go through. Hollywood probably took it too seriously. If a spear or pike broke that easily as in the films, then spears would not have been used for that long.
nah pikes frequently broke but rather form being jammed into the ground and someone stepping on it for falling on it etc rather than being attackedby cutting weapon
just looking at the position i would say if yout get there you don t need to cut of the spear anymore. one step more and you can hit the person holding it and the spear doesn t pose a threat. also imagine the spear would be pulled back and trust after the sword passed :-) he would be wide open.
THIS. Especially since a "Lance" was also the name of a squad made up of a Knight or Man-at-Arms and his retinue (usually between 4 and 8 people) in French, Italian and German.
Farts on a spear to break
I don't know, if shad can do that much damage to a spear with that measly sword, imagine the damage that could be dealt by a strong, professional soldier with expert cutting technique (sorry, but Shad's cutting technique seems less than great there), and of course a greatsword with double the weight of what Shad's using.
Also, the spear moving could also end up helping the sword instead. Imagine the spear gets caught by a strike midthrust, or spearman twitching to try and deflect a swordstrike.
And while I don't think cutting a spear was by any means easy, I also think that if it was anything close to impossible, people wouldn't bother carrying swords with them so often as "backup weapons". And the most certainly wouldn't invent, and (during renaissance) quite commonly use, longuettes (not sure how that's spelled) - thin metal bars running from the head of the spear and along the shaft, specifically to prevent them from getting cut.
I actually have been reading Brandon Sanderson work and I have noticed you’ve been put in the rhythms of war for helping with the combat description to have it be a lot more believable even with flying soldiers/flying ships I’m glad your getting recondition as both a author and a entertainer
After I’m done with the stormlight archive I will be reading the shadow of the conqueror
When Adolin started rambling about his array of specific purpose swords, his voice in my mind started becoming Shad's
@@pablofernandezcasas2973 for real though
I like steelheart
I don't want to spoil anything just in case, but at some point bone is cut through with a sword with a follow up paragraph talking about the difficulty and technique and I was like "That's Shad right there" XD
There's also one other secret weapon that the spear user will employ in order to make sure it's very difficult to cut even halfway through the shaft - Moving the incredibly nimble and lightning fast tip of the spear out of the way and redirecting a thrust into your face.
The problem with this is that pikes are less nimble because they're 20 feet long.
And, not only would they be up against larger greatswords, they'd also be up against halberds too, with plenty of reach to damage the pikehead without getting in range of the tip.
a few points:
1: even if you don't cut the point off the shaft is still weaker.
2: even if you cut the point off the enemy still has a long pointy stick
3: I suspect that over a drawn out battle even without intentionally trying to break spear shafts some will stll get broken.
a long pointy stick with no way of reliably getting past even basic armor isn't much of a threat hence spear head
@@michaelkeha pointy stick is still better than bare hands.
@@michaelkeha A spear head does not make a wooden staff dangerous. It makes it more dangerous. Getting jabbed in the face with a sturdy wooden stick, even if you have a full face helmet on, could kill you.
Going further, you can still control space with a quarterstaff, knocking the enemy back with jabs and hooks. Depending on the enemies' armor, you could break ribs or limbs as well. Blunt weapons have a history of being used against armor.
In a duel, even if they chop the spear head off, you still have a quarterstaff, and a quarterstaff is a very good dueling weapon. And in a battle formation, you can still contribute, even if your weapon isn't as threatening as a spear.
“Good heavens, you’ve broken my spear! Thank the Lord on high that I’ve taken the time to practice with a quarter staff in my spare time!”
You may not bleed out like you would have to a spear, but you could still get knocked unconscious from enough whacks by a quarter staff.
Then you’d be easily ended by any old knife, or even the severed spearhead.
@@sparkytepig quarterstaff can also have ALOT of force behind a single strike, if somebody hits you full force on the top of your skull with a staff (even with a helmet on), it'll at best ring your entire brain, ot at worst compress your skull into your spine and kill you
Something to keep in mind is that a trained spearman would follow the motion such a sword strike, effectively turning these heavy attacks into complete whiffs, which would leave the swordsman open to counterattack.
Something to keep in mind is that a good portion spearmen on the battlefield would be conscripts and have little experience/training. I could see a peasant holding their spear rigid when an enemy tries to chop off the point of the spear.
@@dustyfilmsgaming1983except conscripts aren't 1v1ing someone, they're usually in massive formations. And even then they get months of training.
@@mcwaff8661 I believe the original manuscript that referenced using swords to cut off spearheads was referencing formation warfare, although I could be wrong.
As for training there are too many variables to accurately predict how much training/experience a conscript/peasant would have. I'd say there are too many variables to confidently use this technique. If it were me I wouldn't rely on being able to cut off a spearhead with a sword. But it is an interesting idea.
“Can’t be done” … does it. “Okay it’s harder than you think” 😅
Weren’t halberds the answer to pike?
Something tells me a Claymore, or a Grosse Messer, or even a Falchion would be an Excellent weapon for this test, but testing it under sparring conditions with an Trained Spearman would be a cool video.
War axe, is it much easier or not? (war axe is thinner than than tool axe), katana, does thick wider blade geometry make it better or worse? (thin blades sound better but axe has very wide blade). Claymore, can it cut in one hit?
@@amirattamimi8765 a large sword has more usable reach so I think that would be better in a combat scenario.
Bro whose a trained spearman ready to fight?
@@fumchi2900 Absolutely, that would be best for testing, because I think it would absolutely display why Spearman, and Pikeman are very different in mindset, role and style. It would also show why Spear and Board was one if not the most prolific weapon set on the Battlefield before Guns.
Correct assumption. There are historical accounts of specialised soldiers using great swords like the zweihänder or the Swiss flamberge(which I believe has its special flame shape to better latch on to the wood) to deal with enemy pikeman while your own hold them in check.
I've also read that they've been pretty heavy armoured because they couldn't carry a shield.
If you chop a head of Spear off you'll get the mighty Stick
Downgrade your way to victory
I would like to remind people, that just because something is possible, does not mean it is practical. No soldier is going to stand there to let someone hack at their spear. And spears are generally used in formation. Even if it is still a good one on one weapon.
On the other hand, there are usually more enemies. If you survive long enough the spear might get dozens of hits. If each one just chops a little at some place the spear might break on impact at some point.
I think this would be much more interesting with a Dane axe because it might do the opposite movement to the sword.
At least in movies axes are often used to defend with both hands and the sword hits in the middle. Was that a valid technique for an axe fighter? How likely would a cut be in that situation?
And they still will have a big pointy sticks...
Jesus Christ is Lord. Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. It is an important step.
@@GothamClive If side A is busy fluffing around trying to chop at side B's spears, while side B is instead just focusing on trying to shove their spearheads into side A's guts, I think I know which side of the spears I'd rather be on.
Not to mention, a giant power swing is easily telegraphed to the enemy. Before you can land that strike, the spear fighter would likely swiftly counterattack with a lethal/disabling strike, or just manoeuvre the spear into position that reduces the power of the sword strike
This is something I had issues with D&D groups. Since I'm the crazy one who loves spears, they would always try to point out all the negative things in both the systems and "it doesn't make sense in real life"
such things as:
You can't use a shield with a spear, not even a small/light round one. And the other, they would always find a way to break the wood shaft of mys pears. "Enemy punch/slams/twist" and spear breaks, or enemy armor is so strong spear bends and breaks, they burn or acid the wood. All stupid reasons. I ended using "steel-wood" or "iron-wood" (depending on system) to make a weapon lighter and stronger with a single change
I then argue: there is a good reason why spears were the predominant weapon in battlefields for the longest of time ALL over the world. Where swords (modern medieval swords) became relevant much much later, and other cultures still used spears and gave them a run for its value.
My two personal favourite spear stiles come from Spartans and also Eastern martial arts with spears (these are more often "blade spears" but I stil really like it)
and then in medieval we have the "polearm/poleaxe" Halbert (piercing, slashing, burgeoning damage all in 1 weapon)
Out of curiosity, what version of DND were you playing? In 5e, there’s no official rules for breaking weapons in combat, and spears can be used with shields normally. Tbh, it might have just been bad groups lol
@@riptide3340 Bad groups is easily the one leading cause of bad experiences with DnD. Especially people with fixed ideas about something, especially the DM.
You should tell them that the Greeks AND the Roman legions disagree with their comments about spears not working with shields.
The phalanx was kind of important historically, I hear, and it was focused around spear users carrying shields... your friends are objectively wrong about that comment.
It just depends on what kind of spear you're talking about.
Here's a few more points of argument to help you:
-Celt mythology has a lot of its important figures wield spear.
-There must be a good reason why mythological gods of our own world, especially the chief gods, tend to be depicted carrying a spear. Shiva carries a trishula, Odin has Gungnir, Lugh has Brionac (among his other spears), Izanagi created Japan with Ame-no-nuhoko, and Zeus' thunderbolt is essentially a javelin (Hades has bident, and Poseidon a trident). Chinese deity Erlang Shen, while not a chief god, is also often depicted carrying a type of spear.
For historical counterpart, as everyone else has mentioned, Rome, Greece, even medieval Europe have multiple records of soldiers/knights wielding both long spear and shield.
But yeah, spear is plastered with this image of poorman's weapon, and genre-savvy people will try to break the shaft (especially if it's made from regular wood) when in reality it's harder to do than you might think (a fair DM will make it a real hard thing to do if the target is an experienced spear wielder--which someone like your character who opted to wield it over other weapons surely is). True, the shaft may break when attacking, but only if you overextend or swing it against hard object--someone with good proficiency should know better, unless they're panicking or angry. Trying to specifically aim this to ruin other people's fun, however, is indeed toxic.
.
Making the shaft crafted from ironwood or other enchanted wood should shut them down. If they make up something that specifically can eat ironwood, or have an ability to dispel the enchantment just to ruin your fun, maybe it's time to move on.
@@spearsage yep! Many of my points and arguments to support Spears. Another one is that many throwing spears are hard so they don't bounce off when landing. "Battle spears" have more flexibility to avoid them shattering on hard impacts of impacts against the shaft.
A beautiful example is the movie "Hero" Jet Li Vs Donnie Yen
The few more harden spears are either for Jousting or the Viking/Spartan-like spears, because the need to endure massive strikes.
Then in D&D/roll playing settings there are many rules more in favor for magical weapons to NOT break.
Even so, my fav victory against a troll DM. He summoned a swarm of these insects that rust and destroy metal.
I was the only one with gear left, why?
Full leather armour, iron wood shield, and spear made of iron wood and Bronze blade! Not iron.
Spartan barbarian party member left naked. My amazoness warrior still fighting!
When you hit the shaft diagonally you are cutting a lot more aligned with the grains in the wood. Striking the staff horizontally against the grain makes it a lot tougher.
Definitely with some luck involved at some point in history someone ended up chopping a spear head off, but it’s far better to think about how to get close and build up an action (or better a series of actions) to get closer more or less safely. While trying to use shaft grabs, binding and every controlling mean possible.
Definitely, I guess I was just surprised that it wasn't completely impossible in combat from a practical standpoint.
Also, hey Federico, hope everything is well!
@@shadiversity I was too, especially the first cut left me quite impressed by the effects.
Everything well thanks, hope the same for you!!
@@shadiversity out of curiosity is there a difference of breaking a spear between a normal sword and a greatsword?
I think this test shows you don't even need to cut through the spear to render it useless. One cut is all it takes, if it goes more than halfway through, you can't use any force while stabbing with the spear or you risk breaking off the tip.
I'd love to see the test repeated with a big fuckoff two hander for comparison though, since the Landsknechts wielding those are usually credited with cutting tips in a spear/halberd/polearm formation.
@@dmsnotesadventuresofthethi779 Probably. Given the spear is being knocked aside by the hit, greater force at impact will have an effect. The greatsword will have more mass behind the hit and so will impact more force into the wood while its in contact.
I imagine it'd have an easier time causing the shaft to snap rather than cutting through it though theres a different question regarding difficulty in getting a hit in given the great sword will be harder to swing quickly.
Given that spears were usually hardened and aren't solidly braced against anything (unless maybe stuck in a shield), I feel like it's way tougher than people think.
I was wondering what if (and I'm going of a movie action scene so follow me here) Spear guy thrusts and misses embedding it in the wall. Sword guy with some sort of chop focused sword strikes just below the spear head. Wonder if something like a machete would be capable of at least damaging the shaft enough to render it useless.
I think even with an perfect axe cut, you still wouldn't get anywhere through the thing. Whilst you'd probably damage it pretty bad, you definitely would have some trouble getting through the entire spear
@@Darek_B52 Even cutting halfway, or 3/4 of the way through, the spear would still be somewhat dangerous.
@@Ms_Succubus with an axe made to go through like 1 foot thick pieces of 🪵you honestly think it's not going through? I think your over exaggerating the spears durability in the handle not saying it's weak but to an axe though.
@@danieltilson4053 when I put useless I was meaning via the head of the spear. The metal pokey bit
Nobody's talking about how cool shad looks with a broadsword/longsword in one hand and a machete in the other?
One is for the demons, the other is for el diablo
Despite how different their channels are, it's kinda cool that you can tell him and Jazza are related with the words they use when they talk. And the inflections in their tone.
Jazza deez nuts
"I knew that staff training would come in handy," says the Broken-Spearman.
Jesus Christ is Lord. Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. It is an important step.
@@jamesmayle3787 do you really think that spamming will bring people to your God?
@@jamesmayle3787 Hello, ma'am do you have a minute to talk about our lord and savior Lightning McQueen?! Did you know that Lightning McQueen is the star of several feature films such as Cars, Cars 2, Cars 3, Planes: Fire and Rescue, Finding Dory, Toy Story 3, Coco and Ralph breaks the internet? As well as other short film such as Master and the Ghostlight, Miss Fritter's Racing Skoool, Television program such as Cars Toons, Pixar's Popcorn Cars series voiced by none other than Owen Wilson?
Good video. I'm surprised cutting through a spear wasn't harder than this, though I imagine it would be harder to get such good solid strikes in on a spear while your enemy is trying to stab you with it.
Great video! Thanks, Shad, for answering our most burning questions about medieval life and warfare. :3
I love spears!
Would probably use another wood, also I wonder if adding leather or some material to the outside might help. At least with the splinters.
Also, a iron/steel rod would probably make it significantly harder. I seen some examples of people doing it.
Very enjoyable video.
The main issue with all of those suggestions is one thing: cost. A country didn’t just have to buy one of them, they had to buy hundreds of thousands of them. Even a small leather wrap would add up quickly.
One thing that's interesting to think about is that the determining factor of whether or not you can cut it in 1 hit is how well it's braced, so if you gave the spearman superhuman strength it would make cutting the spear more likely than if you were to give the swordsman superhuman strength.
This means that in all the movies where you see the hero break a spear shaft in one hit, that's a strength feat for their opponent, not necessarily for the hero.
I appreciate the way you think. Couldn’t agree more with your theory.
Consider the fact that this actually makes the spear a far better weapon for an untrained peasant over a soldier then.
@@inquisitorgrynthebandito2736 nah, a trained soldier would know that and would try to absorb or avoid the blow on the spear.
eh idk about that. given the same mass, it probqbly wont be that much more effective, it will still disipate a lot of the energy in the flex
It could also be a skill feat for the hero.
FYI, since I know you were hesitant about branching out, I am liking your comedy shorts, but LOVING your practical tips/techniques shorts!! Keep them coming 😁
Always love how passionate you are as it truly shows through in your work
Awesome demonstration. I appreciate the field work, Shad!
On axes though, I was at a Hema Event this week end, and my friend got his axe solid Ash Handle fractured after two parries against a blunt viking sword. It was still usable, but I was impressed at how fast solid strikes from a one handed sword could damage the weapon (Although the other dude was hitting really hard to the point where it was kind of bad sportsmanship IMO cause he could have made serious wounds)
Well it was dangerous but it certainly proved that in a fight to the death anything goes
It could have been a bad handle too. I've had sledge handles split because of the way the grain was running.
@@chrisjones6002 Yep. If you have weaponry that aren’t the highest quality that could really mean your death.
@@chrisjones6002 That's possible too
It's possible it was a bad handle, but this is quite literally one of the three or four most popular ways to disarm a medieval weapon, polearms just happen to be the easiest to chop up. Any ammount of wood in a weapon is a weak point for a solid steel sword to attack.
Roughly 10:30 was what I was hoping to hear, since in your testing Nathan was just holding the spear and Shad would just cut it. But I think in a real fight you'd have so much trouble to actually land a *proper* hit on the spear, since it'll be moving and you gotta defend yourself at the same time. Also, wouldn't it just be easier to move behind the spearhead and stab your opponent instead of cutting off the spear?
@@dgmt1 Yup this is why they used large two handed swords so you can stay far away from the sprear tip while still attacking the shaft. In a wall of pole arms you just hack and slash at them all until they start to give way. Then your men can start sneaking in the gaps with much less risk.
@@MrBottlecapBill I would think that if someone's spear broke though, they'd just tag out with someone behind them with a working spear, thus leaving no gap.
During a push of pike, the enemy pikes are likely to be tangled up with your allies’s pikes. This would make it much easier to get a solid hit if you’re one of the men-at-arms mixed into the formation.
@@Specter_1125 Would it? Seems like it would be even harder in that scenario due to your ally spear/pikemen being literally in the way (both their body and their weapon).
@@SilentFlatulence Depends if they have backup spearmen right there and them noticing the break occur?
surprising results! thank you for the video Shad, well-done!
Thanks for the video. I've been curious about this for a while.
What I learned: some swords men *might* be able to cut through my spear, and it’s quite possible that the shaft of my spear will get many cut nicks and dings through a battle and might break. So I should learn quarterstaff alongside my spear so that if I do loose my spearhead I can just swap to more bashing and less poking and still be effective in my battle line
A lot of quarter staffing still involves poking. Imagine being jabbed with quarter staff in the face. :D
@@shorewall imagine being stabbed by the broken end of a spear. it won't break cleanly and may cause other issues with splinters and such.
This is pretty common for medieval spearmen. If the spear is your primary weapon quarterstaff and dagger or arming sword are vital weapons to learn alongside it for combat readiness. This because ultimately it is not an uncommon occurrence, it is not a possibility, your spear will be destroyed after two to three engagements with a sword, if your lucky. Especially as trained swordsmen of the time would be taught to target the shaft of the weapon until it's destroyed before trying to step into their own engagement range. The same way swordsmen and dagger users have their hands and arms targeted the shaft of a polearm is one of the easiest things to hit to disable the dangerous pointy bit at the end.
I feel like it was probably somewhat rare at least for well-equipped soldiers to only have a spear for a weapon.
@@Ass_of_Amalek even poor peasant militias wouldn't rely on a spear for all their wartime needs, they would take up knives, daggers, or even farming tools like the sickle.
"Just cut the spearhead off" has a similar energy to "That gun won't be effective because you just get out of the way of the barrel and the bullet won't hit you."
Love this! Testing a hypothesis like this...and especially when I learn something new in the process!
Love the effort been put on this video. Very accurate to the history and lots of useful information. 👏
many medieval spears had a thin metal strip and rivits going from spear head towards the mid, to protect from being "chopped off to easliy".. .especially halberds
Proof?
@@KeyserSoze23 It's not medieval, but Lord Orrey's 17th-century military treatise explicitly describes cheeks or langets for pikes to prevent cavalry swords from hacking off the heads. Renaissance military regulations from Sweden (IIRC) also explicitly state this. & you can see langets on tons of surviving hafted weapons from at least the late-medieval period. It may have become more popular in the Renaissance & on.
Really love the way you use shorts to act like sneak peaks to new videos
Also loved the video shad
What's with your name? 🤨
Jesus Christ is Lord. Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. It is an important step
@@jamesmayle3787 The sins I have done can't be forgiven even by God
Your edge alignment is impeccable!
Always learning! I love this channel
If all you've ever handled is a modern broom handle you might wonder why this is even a question. But go to a hardware store that carries construction grade tools and see what a a good quality shovel handle feels like. It's a lot denser and stronger.
People back then knew what they were doing when it came to wood. They didn't just cut down some random sapling. They'd often have plantations were trees were pruned and grown for specific purposes. For example when there was shortage of yew for long bows they'd even plant elms in shaded areas so the trees grew slower and the rings in the woods grain would be tighter as a result. For spear and other tools shafts they'd take full sized tree trunks then split the dense heartwood into rough squares followed by using a draw knife and then a pole lathe to get them into round.
Looking at the grain of the test shaft Shad was cutting at 7:10 this wood looks to have a good straight grain but the rings seem to be a bit larger than a top quality tool handle. But that's just judging from appearance so it may not be fair to criticize.
I would say though that the test isn't realistic unless the guy with the spear is trying to stick it into the swordsmen. Makes winding up and taking aim a lot harder when you know you may die;).
Another thing that surprised me about wood plantations back in medieval times was that ship builders would order hull beams in a specific shape and the plantation would grow a tree bound back with ropes to shape the tree similar to the hull beam's shape. Fascinating to hear about.
@@xFlow150 My favorite story along these lines (which may even be true;) was that in the early 1900's Oxford University was having to replace the ceiling of an old dining hall that had been built in 1367 because the beams supporting it had ben infested with a type of wood eating beetle. They went searching for the wood on the open market and were told there just wasn't anything long and large enough left in England. They were looking at replacing the beams with iron girders when someone remembered the college had land that had been donated to them over the years, some of which was left covered over in forest. They checked with the person in charge to see if they had anything that could be used and there was apparently a grove of oaks that had been specifically planted in 1367 for when the beams needed to be replaced.
@Silver John cool story, but just randomly discovering 500+ year old oaks does not seem plausible. I think that's right at or over the edge of life expectancy for oaks. they would be giant, hollow, would likely not have usable wood in a specific shape they were trimmed to grow in 500 years ago, and cutting them down would be horrible, because those would be some of the oldest trees in the country.
maybe you're misrememberinga little bit and those trees were actually planted much later than the building was built? 100-200 years would be good for a big oak, I think.
@@Ass_of_Amalek The context of the story is that they had been specifically planted and not just randomly discovered. They would have been pruned and maintained by the foresters in charge of the land. In that context 500 years for oak isn't unreasonable. But, again, this is just a story that even Oxford University can't confirm.
@@silverjohn6037 500 years is in fact an unreasonable timeframe for that. what would be possible is that 100-300 years earlier, somebody planted the trees for such a purpose, took care to grow them into the correct shape for a couple of decades, and then 100-250 years later, they were rediscovered with usable wood in the correct shape. later than that, you would typically see the trunk rot hollow and the tree collapse into more crooked unplanned shapes, particularly if the trunk was originally bent, and as such had more trouble staying upright. there are 500-600 year old oaks, but those are far from ideal trees to cut timber from. and they're generally protected as local landmarks.
Skallagrim also made a video about exactly this a while ago, and showed a way in which the spear or pole arm would be able to not take any damage from the sword at all. Also with this test as the shaft gets shorter Nathan is able to hold against the strikes better because of less leverage. Effectively making it more like hitting the shaft on a solid object.
Great video Shad! Really glad you did the braced test really cool field test
Your short about this video is hilarious. Subbed
Huh. I was honestly expecting it to be pretty much impossible while the spear was held aloft. Apparently it's not that silly a concept - though of course, in an actual fight it would be many times harder still.
On the other hand, during a battle, a spear might get hit many more times. Breakage by a thousand cuts.
Jesus Christ is Lord. Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. It is an important step.
@@jamesmayle3787 Hello, ma'am do you have a minute to talk about our lord and savior Lightning McQueen?! Did you know that Lightning McQueen is the star of several feature films such as Cars, Cars 2, Cars 3, Planes: Fire and Rescue, Finding Dory, Toy Story 3, Coco and Ralph breaks the internet? As well as other short film such as Master and the Ghostlight, Miss Fritter's Racing Skoool, Television program such as Cars Toons, Pixar's Popcorn Cars series voiced by none other than Owen Wilson?
@@ultimatevexation8782 buddy, I’m trying to help you. This is not a joke. The Bible is truth. Also, obviously Im a man.
@@jamesmayle3787 nah dude. I read the whole book. Your god is evil
You should get a Guan Dao (Chinese Crescent Glaive) and do some tests with it. For how awesome of a historical weapon it is, almost no one online has ever even tried one out, let alone done some cool tests with it :)
Plus it just fits in so damn well with fantasy settings and again, super under represented for how powerful of a weapon it is in most media.
Great vid! Keep em up!
This deserves way more views!
Speaking of swords cutting, can you make a video discussing the trope of how the "stronger" warrior in a fight so frequently wins by cutting through their opponent's weapon? It annoys me so much because unless that's what they were going for specifically it's just a matter of equipment is it not? The opponent was actually so strong that they maintained their poise even beyond their weapon's durability, but every time the general summation from both themselves and the victor is that the victor is simply stronger.
It works if you want to show the opponent as pathetic and ill prepared, Kill Bill did this really well with the kid with a cheap katana in the dance club.
@@jasonbrody8724 this. Outside of an ex machina that’s typically the case
It's really just a poor understanding of physics most of the time. Some times they actually justify it, but it's usually because the author forgot that physics works both ways.
How about the far more annoying trope where the villain disarms the hero only for the hero to immediately defeat the villain bare-handed!
Also quality played a big part. Most weapons and metals used were quite all over the place in consistency
An extreme quality well sharpened and massive blade could most likely ruin/pierce a lot of inferior weapons and armor made from much more brittle or softer materials that were more abundant
I'm no weapon expert but I basically chop wood on a daily basis, I know that an axe is different from a sword, but about considering that the staff's diameter is of about 3/4 centimeters, 1/2 good hits on the same surface (and if it was on the ground) would break it easily, but in a spar (especially with an axe) you won't be possibly able to hit the preferred spot 2 times in a row, won't have a surface against which you could press the staff, if its head is stuck into the ground (or a shield possibly) hitting the Spear shaft would not even be that optimal as instead attacking the one who's now unarmed, you already deflected his weapon and can go straight for him, hitting the Spear would not be an advantage, you could try and hit his hands even to be more effective.
there are few wapons design to make a path threw the speerwall. like flamberger. but you most likly push to side the speers with it and only brake a few cose as you say: a pole in the air swings with the hit and absorbs more of the energy with a his movement than breaking.
Also hacking across the grain is far more difficult then with the grain.
Jesus Christ is Lord. Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. It is an important step.
@@jamesmayle3787 where the damn f did you come from? And who asked for your religious opinion?
@@jamesmayle3787 I don't want to be insulting, but without external proof that the Bible is true, there is little point in taking any life lessons from it. And we are perfectly capable of forgiveness without reading it.
Very interesting! I wouldn’t have thought of this as plausible.
i got a notification 😱 that short you mentioned was awesome aswell 🤣 love your content! stay awesome
I think it also depends on the type of wood. A staff made from live oak, or oak in general, will be much harder.. or ironwood. As with all things, I very much think it is dependent on the situation.
For reference, the wood the shafts are made of are Tasmanian oak
This. I once had to remove the head of a HEMA pollaxe from an ash haft. The weapon was braced and I was using a hand saw, and it was pretty hard work. No way that six cuts with a very sharp sword delivered by an expert swordsman against an unbraced ash haft could get through in six cuts. It would have taken at least 10, possibly more.
@@shadiversity That was oak? Wew. I think they added the iron "strips" around so many pole weapons because that. 4-6 strikes to end a spear aren't that many.
@@shadiversity also depends on how the wood is treated and how old it is. Repeatedly coating the wood natural oil will make it harder. Also a good test would be at which point is the spear shaft conpromised to be used without breaking on its own
A spear made out of nuclear bomb would be most effective.
One thing you inadvertently showed when the spear head came off, is that when you see pole axes, halberds, and hammers with straps going down the shaft, they're more likely bracing to prevent the head coming off when the *user* is swinging.
Also, I'm not sure what Tasmanian Oak is like, but straight-grained ash poles are basically springs. I'd expect ash to deflect 1-2 inches at that length with little effort. I wonder how the Tasmanian oak compares.
Honestly I want to see how well a shaft made of Brazilian Ironwood would hold up. That stuff is crazy strong hence the name.
This makes me want to see a live demonstration of a greatsword against a spear or pike.
The short worked, I'm interested now
I didn't expect this but I find it awesome.
Shad as always, answering the timeless questions. ⚔️⚔️
Outstanding job testing this. The brace test is actually perfect to show what would happen if someone tried to block a sword strike with a spear. You'd die vs a properly weighted sword, or at least be somewhat disarmed. Good show Shad.
Spear is much longer, so it easier to capitalize reach advantage and thrust an opponent first, also spear is kept a little back (not at full length) to make a thrust at the appropriate moment.
@@user-ni6rm5zh6q Your point is very much valid; however, I was referring to if the swordsman managed to close that gap and forced you to either dodge or block. Blocking is a bad idea generally as shown in the video.
@@Ryan-wm7wt if we think of a battlefield or even just a life or death fight situation wherein you’ve got your blood up, adrenaline pumping and muscles firing on all cyclinders, I can *definitely* imagine swordsman, knights or samurai getting the jump on spearmen and cutting or slicing through the wood of spears as they try to defend or as shown, while the spear is pointed at you.
I think that’s something a lot of these tests don’t factor in, just the rush and energy of actual life or death combat, combined with the fact if we think of Knights or Samurai that these are also people who’ve trained their whole lives for this, combined with armour it’d make them truly terrifying opponents no matter the weapon.
@@pyrrhusofepirus8491 Agreed... well except for the no matter the weapon thing (a wiffle bat for example vs a properly armed assailant lol) but I'm sure you meant a proper weapon.
@@Ryan-wm7wt yeah but if the swordsman closed that gap there’s no way he would be able to take a swing like that. In the time it took to make that swing the spearman takes two steps back and guts him when he’s recovering from that massive swing.
The stories promo'ing your videos are such a good idea haha
Important to keep in mind that spear shafts were often also fire hardened, would've added some more resilience.
Others have said it, but you've shown how a few decent, purposeful hits can easily incapacitate a spear.
I would like to see it with a spear head that isn't sharp for safety but keeps the mass at the end be tested. The mass at the end will resist wanting to swing away, likely breaking more (easily). That, and a mock combat of spear + shield vs arming sword + shield to see how long the spear lasts
Excellent testing!
Indeed I was thinking the same about leaving a weight at the end of the staff if not a dull spear head.
The weight on the end of the shaft should make it harder to cut through the shaft. The weight of the spear head will cause the shaft to move away from the cutting blade faster, because the mass at the end is already trying to accelerate away from the strike due to gravity.
@@frocat5163 Newtonian physics state that an object will maintain its momentum (>= 0) until a force is acted upon it. This works into the principle of momentum, and if you have more mass it will require more work to move. Now if you're imagining the torque applied will just move it faster, that would only apply if we were pushing with the blade, not attempting to cut the object. The small surface area of a blade's surface cuts through as a wedge, and this typically goes with very little resistance at high speeds, low coefficients of friction, or with lubricant. Imagine a slow-motion video of the hit: you'd see the staff bend before the spearhead moves a relatively equal amount, therefore allowing the sword to cut more easily and possibly snap the staff in 1-2 strikes.
@@matthewbarham6488 right! We pretty much just got to see what happens if you strike a stick! For safety, of course, but I believe there is a difference, even if the spearhead is light, because it is a concentrated mass at the end. Still impressive as to how much damage was done
To be fair if you wield the spear properly it will not be nocked away easily like that.
Also in a proper fight it would be much harder to hit the spear shaft as the person is not holding still and will be actively stabbing you.
Awesome video.
For the algorithm!!!
Wonderful video. I had no idea it could be done that easy with optimal settings.
Now we know that the spear guard is really needed. No doubt no real spearman would hold it steady for the oponent, but one can see in a bigger battle it is needed.
At first i was skeptical too, considering an actively defending spearman's chances of losing the tip pretty good. But now we've seen why languets were a thing; fix like 25cm of metal on each side and you've solved the issue... Until the swordsman brings a bigger cutting implement like a greatsword. Which is what we actually see historically against pikes.
For unarmored single combat in the open, trying to cut the head off a spear is probably a bad idea, as Joseph Swetnam explicitly wrote. On the battlefield, however, it was common for people to hack at pike hafts. Like you say, langets were important to protect pike heads from being cut off.
Awesome video. I can't tell you how many times I've heard this in fantasy books.
Interesting results indeed.
Love the shorter format!
Discovering this channel at 3 fucking am and I'm loving it so much XD
I remember when I was a kid I would always picture catching the spear in the gap between an axe blade and its handle and twisting my wrist to snap the spearhead off. Was such an unrealistic dork, haha!
Well done sir. Sword sharpening is an art at the end of the day & managing to get one that sharp is an accomplishment of note imo. If you keep going then who knows where it'll go. I started learning to sharpen, then I learned to build my own hilts & now i've forged my 1st arming sword.
His sounds when he’s striking sound so much different than his real voice, love the battle cries man
I love the fact that they actually dress for the part, even the assistant!
I have often suspected that you would be able to cut through the wooden shafts of weapons especially spears and long pole arms if you had a weapon that was specifically designed to cut through wood. I never would have thought they do could be done as easily with a sword as shown here. Thank you for enlightening us Shad.
It's something I had my doubts too, not even weapons designed to cut wood, but one handed swords. Now I want a montante/zweihanders vs Pike again, now I don't doubt they were used to cut through pikes that much.
@@yeraycatalangaspar195 I want zweihander against Dane-axe. Considering that the axe might basically do the opposite movement to the sword, it now seems to be much inferior. And in a battle, there would be way more cuts from different opponents, if you survive long enough.
@@GothamClive well it could be done but those two weapons are separated by 400 years. A montante X pike/polearm would be a much better comparison
When attempting to cut through a shaft braced on the tables, one major factor you did not mention was the issue of the wood binding on the sides of the blades as they cut through. After getting some distance through the wood, the wood would start pressing in on the sides the blade proportional to the amount of downward force the blade was exerting on the shaft. That is why both did not cut as far in on the braced shaft VS when the shaft was being held.
Jesus Christ is Lord. Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. It is an important step.
This makes skalls video on great swords vs pikes alot more interesting, skal being so skeptical of great swords chopping pike heads and all
It's been well over a decade since I've done this. You've inspired me to do it again with my HEMA students.
You should do a test where you see how effective a spear is when it had been damaged with 1 solid hit. Will armor give way with a thrust or sweeping attack, or will the shaft break first?
Good point! Wish it was in the video too.
Something i just thought about: I did notice more give when the spearhead was on. I know you kept it off for safety's sake but i feel like less damage would be done to the haft because the center of mass is further from the weilder's hands, so it would give more rendering less damage overall.
Fun video! What comes to mind is that when you are doing these long vertical power swings, you are exposing your torso for a big poke on two occasions. Cool demonstration though. You do acknowledge that you have a compliant opponent though.
That short was gold
Yeah but if you had MY katana that was folded 10,000,000 times and is harder than diamond but not brittle (because the soft spine of course) you could cut through it NO PROBLEM AT ALL (or other swords). You just need to be careful not to accidently cut through some atoms and create an atomic bomb-strike.
Yeah right, i don't understand why the katana hasnt replaced every other weapon in warfare yet smh
You are talking about the legendary fissionto it is illegal to produce because it's a literal WMD
@@b.k.5667 they take too long to produce. You need to have a grand master spend 4 decades (7 days a week, 18 hours a day, no breaks or vacations) to create each one.
@@orenmontgomery8250 you mean 11 years per decade, 53 weeks a year, 8 days a week, 25 hours a day
@@b.k.5667 because there is only so many people who can make the superior nippon steel used in the glorious nippon steel 10m fold katanas.
That's the theory about Greatswords and pikes, although I guess longer shaft and more hefty sword might actually cut it but you can always have langets (if funds allow)
Landsknecht are one of my favorite groups and my greatest headache at the same time. 3 pounds vs 7 far more heft and pikes vs spears so a sterner hand on the pikes which were dirt cheap. That's about all the argument boils down to and it doesn't totally ease me into it so I'd be a damn hypocrite to fight people who refuse the whole idea and feel Doppelsoldners are made up and thus most of the greatswords usage on battlefields.
Zweihander/Claymore
Funds? Bruw how expensive can 2 pieces of basic metal (does not even have to be iron) be.
@@MrFallenone Iron was used because it was cheaper as any other comparable metal though ;) Bronze is better, but way more expensive to make, not least because tin is not so easily evailable (at least in ancient times, hence tin islands for England)
Jesus Christ is Lord. Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. It is an important step
This tickles an information center in my brain. I can imagine an absolutely yoked viking getting through a low quality spear on pure adrenaline; but I also now imagine that he'd be proud enough of it that all of his friends would know soon.
Thanks for the video, Shad! Definitely easier than you thought, though still probably unlikely in combat.. but plausible for sure! It's probably happened at some point. :)
Would you do a video about spears? Short spears, long spears, different types, and spear combat etc.
Jesus Christ is Lord. Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. It is an important step
Out of curiosity, have you ever tested the other common spear disarming trope of breaking off the head by stepping on the shaft when it's trapped on the ground?
Just so you know... got interested in this video after seeing your shorts one
This quickly turns into a video of Shad geeking out over his sword which is entirely understandable
Something to keep in mind is being in formations such as the Greeks and the Romans where you don’t have room to just move the spear or pike out of the way. I can see the Romans pushing their shields into the spear tips and having guys go between and whacking at the spear shafts
That is exactly what the romans did when they learned how to deal with phalanxes
Who else took pride in knowing that the second they saw that sword they knew it was Boromir's sword?
It's nice to see neat tactics given validity.
a lots of your results seemed quite logical and common knowledge
I was playing some Bayonetta 3, and I was almost on the last level, and I saw this video and I had to stop everything and watch it completely.
That's how good your content is. Never stop doing this. I love to see this kind of stuff. It helps a lot to learn in case we ever go back in time. Hahahaha.
Great content Shad. Hail the Fellowship! :D
The winged spear is by far my favorite weapon. But all polearms are great imo
Same. Winged spears are so cool.
Jesus Christ is Lord. Please read at least three books of the Bible. The first book of each testament and one you chose yourself. As you do practice forgiveness. It is an important step
Very nice thank you
I worked in a Hardwood Lumber store selling lumber to Cabinet Makers and such, the lumber we had was dried to between 7-10% moisture content. However when using lumber in construction purposes, you would normally be using Pine with a higher moisture content as it is both cheaper, and with the higher moisture content it is sturdier, just not as great looking and doesn't hold a stain as well. The "hardwood" and "softwood" are actually broad terms used in place of Deciduous vs Coniferous, where a Balsa is a Hardwood, but much softer than a Pine which is a Softwood.
Honestly surprises me how effective the sword was able to cut through. I would love to see a similar test with a full pike against a zweihander done, as I always took breaking a pike with one as more just using the leverage to easily knock aside or even pin the pike on the ground, creating an opening. However, seeing this makes me wonder if there's some truth to it in a literal sense, or if a longer pole would have enough give to lessen the damage done, even by a larger sword.
Perhaps you could make a series of this? Different woods, different thickness, fire-hardened or some other method, oiled or not, and some in motion vs braced in hand like this vs some thrusting and pulling?
Actually, extra thickness might be adding more mass and so more resistance to brace it? Thinner spear shafts might be easier to push aside instead of biting into?
And axe against sword. The axe would do a similar movement to the sword which would increase the impact.
came in from the short, it's working shad!
9:00-10:00 love when the results surprise
it’s always fun to learn :3