That was the first time I had seen a reverso used in anything other than guide mode. Thanks for the comparison between them all. Good food for thought.
i dont mean to be off topic but does anybody know a way to log back into an instagram account? I was dumb lost the login password. I would love any assistance you can give me.
@Lorenzo Shawn i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site on google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now. Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
I love your clean concise videos. One question; At 1:10, why the need to switch the belay device config. If you were belaying from the top and the person couldnt finish the pitch, you would have to lower them in the current configuration. An explanation about the need to switch would be good.
Thank you! At 1:10 I am belaying the follower with the atc in guide mode, which locks up when weighted. To lower in this configuration is time consuming and complex, as I show in the last scenario in this video. To make the lowering easier I switch the atc over to standard mode with a redirect on the brake strand, allowing smooth lowering with minimal effort.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool Thanks for the quick reply. Yes I realized that later on in the video but since i dont use that type of ATC I didnt realize right away and found that distracting.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool I use a sling in the thin eye of the belay device and redirected to the master/shelf point or one of the anchors if needed and it's strong enough. Am I doing wrong? Thanks
Great video, thanks! For me though, "belaying from the top" usually means I'm sitting on top of the cliff, with no cracks or bolts above me, rather using a sturdy tree out of reach behind me for protection, with the rope running back and forth on the ground. In that scenario (the most common one, since most climbs where I live are single-pitch) it is not as straight forward to belay directly from the anchor. Would love some ideas for effective balays on conditions like that, other than just belaying directly of the harness?
Great suggestion for a new video. Here's the idea: Lead the pitch, build the anchor, then clip a locker to the master point and clip a bight of rope into the locker. Then walk towards the edge. Pull up 6 feet of slack or so and tie a large overhand on a bight. There will be two strands to clip into as your extended masterpoint. Put a grigri or plaquette on the master point and give your partner a direct belay. You are secure the minute you tie the big overhand and put a locker on it. This allows you to see your partner as they climb but not have to get pulled into the ground when they fall! With any complex technique like this, text alone can cause confusion. Get a guide to show you how if possible.
All three could work. The auto block feeds out a little smoother. I like an auto block on the brake side of a belay device, when it doesn't need to grab the rope that hard. I like a prussic or kleimheist when it has to hold full body weight because it's less likely to slip unexpectedly compared to an auto block.
After 7:45, overall visual confirmation, that the "guide" mode is a basic kludge, clusterf**k, with the additions of more gear and overrides to just accomplish something everyone is going to have to do when belaying a climber from above. I'm definitely re-considering the Munter hitch as a simple, practical, streamlined and efficient mode.
The Munter hitch is a great option, although the rope can get a bit twisted. Guide mode is nice when you aren't going to lower your partner: ie both climbers rappel, or continue more pitches to the top. There are simpler ways to convert guide mode to lower (ie LSD lower) but they involve your partner unweighting the rope momentarily.
I was surprised to hear you say that the forces on the anchor are greater when belaying from an ATC at the harness. When someone falls in this configuration, aren't forces reduced as the belayer is pulled toward the wall, essentially absorbing some of the shock and force of the fall, where all of the other redirected methods put 100% of the fall force on the anchor? I'm a new lead climbers, so really just asking - not being critical at all - thank you for the informative video and response in advance.
The forces are greater in an indirect belay than in a direct belay. If the belay is indirect, the falling force of the climber must be matched with an equal counterweight force on the belayer's side. A climber generating 400 pounds of falling force will be matched (hopefully!) with 400 pounds of resisting force, resulting in 800 pounds of force on the anchor. Whereas in a direct belay the force on the anchor is simply the force of the fall (400) plus the body weight of the belayer, if they are leaning back, let's say 150lbs = 550 total pounds of force.
You can't remove the climbers sling from the anchor before testing the belay system. This way if you have a mistake and he's off the masterpoint, he's dead once he leans back.
I don't like to be rigid. If you have a lot on your mind: bad weather, injured climber, strong winds, low visibility, etc, then your suggestion is great. When you have daylight and you are cruising with plenty of extra brain cells for the situation, then what the video demonstrates makes a lot of sense. Double check before unclipping. Use the right technique for the situation.
Good point! Usually I can lean over to one side a little and that will prevent the rope from running over the clove hitch and heating it up. Another option is to clove hitch yourself into the shelf in order to create separation.
Not to trash your technique, but you crowded your masterpoint with too much equipment in too close of quarters. You could have used extended systems using slings to separate the carabiners and it not so trashy looking. Keep it simple and clean in order to not cross load or make what you are doing so confusing. Otherwise, a good video.
Not all anchors have more than one masterpoint. If I make a video using multiple masterpoints, it implies that these systems don't work well with one masterpoint, when in fact they do. I agree at times it can be useful to extended a sling down to make a lower masterpoint, but it requires more gear, which slows you down and what if you don't have the extra sling? If I use the shelf all the time, it sends the message that if you don't have a shelf in your anchor then these tasks become too difficult or impossible to do which is not true. I believe too many people are reliant on a shelf or having two masterpoints, and would struggle if the terrain and gear limitations forced them into building a single masterpoint anchor. If you learn these systems with only a single masterpoint, then it only gets easier when a second masterpoint is present.
I'm lazy and that's why I don't always bring a grigri. When I do alpine or backcountry routes with a long approach I like to go as light as possible, so if I can leave a grigri at home that helps a bit. Sometimes I like to belay two followers at the same time, and a plaquette device allows me to do that easily. But I do love the grigri, don't get me wrong! A rescue is 10 times faster and easier with a grigri and it sure makes my job of guiding easier! I belay with my grigri more than any other belay device.
Best video on numerous ways to lower. Well done.
Thank you.
This video is so clean and usfel, esp with the close ups. No BS. 5 stars
That was the first time I had seen a reverso used in anything other than guide mode. Thanks for the comparison between them all. Good food for thought.
wow, honestly one of the best videos for how to belay on top. Well done (subscribed).
Thank you! Sorry for not publishing any new videos in so long! Our guide service got so busy I haven't had much time, but I want to get back at it.
Awesome vid, thank you!
Great video! I would suggest testing the brake/lowering setup *before* the climber being lowered untethers.
Good suggestion
i dont mean to be off topic but does anybody know a way to log back into an instagram account?
I was dumb lost the login password. I would love any assistance you can give me.
@Braylon Derrick Instablaster :)
@Lorenzo Shawn i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site on google and im waiting for the hacking stuff now.
Looks like it's gonna take a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Lorenzo Shawn It did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. Im so happy!
Thanks so much, you really help me out!
Great video, thanks for making this!
Thanks!
Well done. I appreciate your thorough instructions and presentation.
Thanks!
I love your clean concise videos. One question; At 1:10, why the need to switch the belay device config. If you were belaying from the top and the person couldnt finish the pitch, you would have to lower them in the current configuration. An explanation about the need to switch would be good.
Thank you! At 1:10 I am belaying the follower with the atc in guide mode, which locks up when weighted. To lower in this configuration is time consuming and complex, as I show in the last scenario in this video. To make the lowering easier I switch the atc over to standard mode with a redirect on the brake strand, allowing smooth lowering with minimal effort.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool Thanks for the quick reply. Yes I realized that later on in the video but since i dont use that type of ATC I didnt realize right away and found that distracting.
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool I use a sling in the thin eye of the belay device and redirected to the master/shelf point or one of the anchors if needed and it's strong enough. Am I doing wrong? Thanks
@@begobarcelona8612 Yes! That is a good way to do it. But the sling must be small or it won't fit in the hole. 5mm accessory cord works also.
Great video, thanks!
For me though, "belaying from the top" usually means I'm sitting on top of the cliff, with no cracks or bolts above me, rather using a sturdy tree out of reach behind me for protection, with the rope running back and forth on the ground. In that scenario (the most common one, since most climbs where I live are single-pitch) it is not as straight forward to belay directly from the anchor. Would love some ideas for effective balays on conditions like that, other than just belaying directly of the harness?
Great suggestion for a new video. Here's the idea: Lead the pitch, build the anchor, then clip a locker to the master point and clip a bight of rope into the locker. Then walk towards the edge. Pull up 6 feet of slack or so and tie a large overhand on a bight. There will be two strands to clip into as your extended masterpoint. Put a grigri or plaquette on the master point and give your partner a direct belay. You are secure the minute you tie the big overhand and put a locker on it. This allows you to see your partner as they climb but not have to get pulled into the ground when they fall! With any complex technique like this, text alone can cause confusion. Get a guide to show you how if possible.
Such a good video I wish I had found it last year.
Thank you!
Excellent explanation. Thank you! (subscribed)
why the auto block vs prusik vs kleheist? still trying to figure out when each of these are best for various scenarios
All three could work. The auto block feeds out a little smoother. I like an auto block on the brake side of a belay device, when it doesn't need to grab the rope that hard. I like a prussic or kleimheist when it has to hold full body weight because it's less likely to slip unexpectedly compared to an auto block.
After 7:45, overall visual confirmation, that the "guide" mode is a basic kludge, clusterf**k, with the additions of more gear and overrides to just accomplish something everyone is going to have to do when belaying a climber from above. I'm definitely re-considering the Munter hitch as a simple, practical, streamlined and efficient mode.
The Munter hitch is a great option, although the rope can get a bit twisted. Guide mode is nice when you aren't going to lower your partner: ie both climbers rappel, or continue more pitches to the top. There are simpler ways to convert guide mode to lower (ie LSD lower) but they involve your partner unweighting the rope momentarily.
I can see this being useful if multiple climbers want to top rope a long pitch. Is there any other reason you would lower from the top?
Or if your partner struggles and can't finish the pitch, gets hit by rockfall, etc.
I was surprised to hear you say that the forces on the anchor are greater when belaying from an ATC at the harness. When someone falls in this configuration, aren't forces reduced as the belayer is pulled toward the wall, essentially absorbing some of the shock and force of the fall, where all of the other redirected methods put 100% of the fall force on the anchor? I'm a new lead climbers, so really just asking - not being critical at all - thank you for the informative video and response in advance.
The forces are greater in an indirect belay than in a direct belay. If the belay is indirect, the falling force of the climber must be matched with an equal counterweight force on the belayer's side. A climber generating 400 pounds of falling force will be matched (hopefully!) with 400 pounds of resisting force, resulting in 800 pounds of force on the anchor. Whereas in a direct belay the force on the anchor is simply the force of the fall (400) plus the body weight of the belayer, if they are leaning back, let's say 150lbs = 550 total pounds of force.
True. See an ENSA test to prove it, on UA-cam. It's in French, with subtitles.
You can't remove the climbers sling from the anchor before testing the belay system. This way if you have a mistake and he's off the masterpoint, he's dead once he leans back.
I don't like to be rigid. If you have a lot on your mind: bad weather, injured climber, strong winds, low visibility, etc, then your suggestion is great. When you have daylight and you are cruising with plenty of extra brain cells for the situation, then what the video demonstrates makes a lot of sense. Double check before unclipping. Use the right technique for the situation.
Be careful not to burn the clove hitch!
Good point! Usually I can lean over to one side a little and that will prevent the rope from running over the clove hitch and heating it up. Another option is to clove hitch yourself into the shelf in order to create separation.
😉
ATC crab not screwed up in the lower off.......
Oh? Where?
@@CaliforniaClimbingSchool The close-up shot of the lower-off using the ATC.
@@traderbarry9139 You mean the non-lockers used for the release? I don't see a locking carabiner that is unlocked.
4.48, 7.12 'hi' to ur handsome climbing partner.
The French prusik knot ...
Not to trash your technique, but you crowded your masterpoint with too much equipment in too close of quarters. You could have used extended systems using slings to separate the carabiners and it not so trashy looking. Keep it simple and clean in order to not cross load or make what you are doing so confusing. Otherwise, a good video.
Not all anchors have more than one masterpoint. If I make a video using multiple masterpoints, it implies that these systems don't work well with one masterpoint, when in fact they do. I agree at times it can be useful to extended a sling down to make a lower masterpoint, but it requires more gear, which slows you down and what if you don't have the extra sling? If I use the shelf all the time, it sends the message that if you don't have a shelf in your anchor then these tasks become too difficult or impossible to do which is not true. I believe too many people are reliant on a shelf or having two masterpoints, and would struggle if the terrain and gear limitations forced them into building a single masterpoint anchor. If you learn these systems with only a single masterpoint, then it only gets easier when a second masterpoint is present.
Let me guess 10 different tools and ways to belay from the top? Man all you need is a gri gri and some common sense !
I'm lazy and that's why I don't always bring a grigri. When I do alpine or backcountry routes with a long approach I like to go as light as possible, so if I can leave a grigri at home that helps a bit. Sometimes I like to belay two followers at the same time, and a plaquette device allows me to do that easily. But I do love the grigri, don't get me wrong! A rescue is 10 times faster and easier with a grigri and it sure makes my job of guiding easier! I belay with my grigri more than any other belay device.