WTF?! Destroy Cuba or Don't! | The Cuban Missile Crisis I Day 04
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- President John F. Kennedy faces off with the Joint Chiefs of Staff, including General Curtis LeMay (his arch-enemy), who demand more freedom for military action.
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Hosted by: Indy Neidell
Written by: Spartacus Olsson
Director: Astrid Deinhard
Producers: Astrid Deinhard and Spartacus Olsson
Executive Producers: Astrid Deinhard, Indy Neidell, Spartacus Olsson, Bodo Rittenauer
Creative Producer: Joram Appel
Post-Production Director: Wieke Kapteijns
Research by: Spartacus Olsson
Edited by: Daniel Weiss
Sound design: Marek Kaminski
Colorizations:
- Dememorabilia - / dememorabilia
Sources:
Photos from Bejucal, Cuba: History and Festivities - Havana Times
Andy Garcia - Mireille Ampilhac
Photo from chernobylguide.com - Chernobyl Mutations in Humans and Animals
PX 65-105:179 from LOOK Magazine 8405-1-26
Photo from WDR - 23. Juni 1963 - John F. Kennedy kommt in Deutschland an
Soundtracks from Epidemic Sound:
- Cold Eyes - Elliot Holmes
- Scope - Got Happy
- Juvenile Delinquent - Elliot Holmes
- Moving to Disturbia - Experia
- From the Depths - Walt Adams
- Symphony of the Cold-Blooded - Christian Andersen
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A TimeGhost chronological documentary produced by OnLion Entertainment GmbH.
This is the fifth of fourteen episodes following the Cuban Missile Crisis day-by-day. We'll be back tomorrow, and the day after that until the end of the crisis. All the episodes are already available to the TimeGhost Army on www.patreon.com/timeghosthistory or timeghost.tv. By joining us there you will also support the creation of these independent, realtime historical documentary series. Don't wait any longer! Go!
Cheers, Joram
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Liking the content. Keep up the good work!
Did you film all these in one go? In all these, the red lava lamp is active, but the blue is still warming up. At first I wondered if this was meant to be symbolic -- to show that at this stage, the Reds had the initiative and America was just catching up -- but it seems more likely you just filmed all the desk scenes together, not long after you added the second lamp.
“... continue interrogating the past free of political influence”
Love it
I think there's something wrong with the green lava lamp.
Hey Chris. Sadly there is no symbolism. To answer your first question, we usually film episodes during a few day long filming sessions.
The actual audio from the people involved takes this to another level. Wow
Yes. It's an amazing stroke of luck that we have the audio from those meetings, both for ourselves and for historians to study in the generations to come. It's also lucky that Kennedy handled this correctly, otherwise there wouldn't be anyone to listen to that audio now, and no generations to come.
leads one to believe that Nixon wasnt that cutting edge when we found out about those tapes. wonder if the practice goes back to at least Eisenhower?
There's saber rattling, then there is LeMay who seems to be swinging a saber around the room.
While on horseback, you might add.
People in the modern day criticize LeMay to much I think. The guy was a 100% legit war hero in WW2 who single handily shortened the war with his strategies of absolute war.
It then should also not be a surprise to people when he is then the head of the US Air Force that LeMay will have the opinion that if war is to start that it should be fought at the absolute level. LeMay's opinion on this is not incorrect either. The quicker you end the war the less death in the long term there will be. It may seem inhumane to escalate a war as fast as LeMay would argue but at the same time doing so prevents a war from being as long with greater casualties.
@@PhillyPhanVinny Yes, but this is the same LaMay that told LBJ he would bomb the North Vietnamese into the stone age and that turned out to be only hopeful bosting
@@onefastcyclist So LeMay said he never actually said that we should bomb them back into the stone age but that we had the ability to do so.
Also importantly he was really correct about his plan to bomb North Vietnam. The US did finally start to unleash massive bombing campaigns on the North after LeMay had retired. Those campaigns were what eventually first brought the North to the peace table in Paris and then forced them back to the peace table again after they left. The US air-force had completely obliterated the North Vietnamese divisions and air-defense within their country and the USSR was tired of spending the money to replace everything over and over again. The USSR told the North to go back to Paris at that point and make peace with the Americans or they would stop supplying them with military equipment which would have made the North no threat at all at that point. It also took the North and the USSR 2 years to get the Norths divisions back up to strength after the war the US was in ended. Once the North got their divisions back up to strength is when they broke the peace deal and launched their new invasion of the South which the US didn't get involved in. So many people forget that while the US was spending more total money in Vietnam on the war then the USSR, the USSR was spending a greater percent of their GDP on the war then the US was.
I'm specially impressed by his telepathic abilities to instantly read the minds of all allied and neutral leaders and on the spot collate it to simple "rest of the world really wants us to bomb Soviet nukes".
My grandpa served in the first Soviet infantry unit that landed in Cuba. His platoon already knew that they are going to Cuba to "help defend the revolution" (they were told by their commanding officer, so you see where the secrecy goes here, but they were discouraged to tell their relatives or even other servicemen). Told me that those were "the best two years of his life", he apparently thinks that he left a few children on Cuba. Since he was always vocal about how beautiful those Cuban women were. He even wanted to stay on Cuba forever and didn't want to come back to the USSR.
are u an ethnic russian or..??
@@nddavi58 Ukrainian
Tell us more about your grandpa...
Thanks so much for sharing Constantine. Really really interesting to hear your grandpa's perspective on such a big moment in history. We especially don't get many Soviet perspectives in the comments, so thank you.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
*snail
My thought exactly. Jesus christ.
All of this sounds like perfect material for a series like HBO's Chernobyl.
Your're right. They made a movie about this, but it was far too over simplified. Would love a play by play from both side's perspectives told in Chernobyl 10 part series fashion. I would even buy an HBO subscription for such a series.
hopefully more historically accurate though than Chernobyl
Chernobyl was propaganda
Pryvet@@SovietUnion100. Nyet, tovarisch. Not 100% accurate but not propaganda.
I think that is the first time I have heard of the Suez crisis referred to as 'the Anglo war.' Just shows how little support the UK had in that farce.The missile crisis has been so often told as a tale of Soviet aggression so I'm grateful for the repeated emphasis that the top brass did not see the deployment as a shift in the balance of power, as it has so oft been portrayed. Keep up the good work.
Now I want TimeGhost to make a day by day series about the Suez Crisis.
Maciek300 I think it’s one of their next projects
The top brass did not see it as a shift in the balance of power because of how overwhelming the US nuclear warhead count was compared to the Soviets. However the US was no longer out of range of many of the Soviet missiles and there was a fear that once the Soviets get more warheads they will just ship moreover to Cuba. So instead of having to invest in a expensive ICBM they can just make a medium range missile and ship it to Cuba.
Having them there simply balanced the situation in Turkey and Italy but this wasn't admitted publicly to further portray the Soviets as the sole cause of the crisis.
@@joshuacondell1686 Because conventional weapons won't do much against US. It's an island after all, vectors of attack are from everywhere. If all enemy fears is some soldier losses, then it doesn't matter, as they can try invasion as many time as they want.
I'd never even known the plight of the Russians on Cuba - eye opening to hear the struggles and deaths from this. I didn't even know about the large forces there! So much of this is USA oriented, we're really missing out on the broader impacts.
Yeah... You really wouldnt want to be in the rocked battalion. If there wast the radiation, the fuel of any of the soviet rockets was so toxic, that most people there either died outright or got cancers. The average age of the officers and lower ranks was truly abysmal.
Yeah I had no idea the missiles were so deadly to simply be around back then. It would be awesome to hear more from the Russian side of things. Admittedly I'm no expert on this topic but I imagine more information is available from the US side though which is why there's more of it. Probably easier to get documents from the US government (I think there is very little that is still classified or redacted at this point) and there's also so much from the Kennedy library, like these tapes. Kennedy had things recorded with the specific intention that there be a public historical record of things in the future. It's hard to imagine Soviet leadership thinking the same way.
No nukes detonated over Paris in this episode? Pft. I give this 0/10.
The tie itself may be rather bland, but it works wonderfully with this snazzy suit. Love the contrast. 3.5/5
One of Kennedy's favorite books was "The Guns of August" by the late Barbara Tuchman which detailed the blunders and miscalculations of the great powers leading to the opening days of World War I. The book had a powerful influence on his approach to foreign affairs.
Tuchman's conclusions were fatally flawed by her lack of access to documents that came to light after that book was written which make it clear how much the world war was deliberately engineered by the German general staff. The blundering and misunderstanding was on the part of everyone else who swallowed the German lies about wanting to either prevent a war or limit it to a local Balkan conflict and failed to detect the machinations through which Germany very carefully sabotaged every attempt to preserve peace. If you want to find out what really happened in August, 1914, a good place to start is _Europe's Last Summer_ by David Fromkin.
@@brucetucker4847 Max Hastings reached a similar conclusion in his "Catastrophe: Europe Goes to War 1914." He places the blame for the war overwhelmingly on Germany.
If all you have is Joint Chiefs of Staff, everything looks like a military strike target.
Seriously, if he had listened to them none of us would be alive right now.
@@MrJonsonville5a. BS , the Soviets would have never went into a nuclear war over Cub.
@@Ardunafeth Yeah but they would have gone for Berlin and who knows where that would end
@@Ardunafeth nuclear war would have been ever their nukes, not Cuba itself. USA tries to take out Soviet nukes, that violates MAD balance. Soviet might have felt forced to respond clearly before "USA takes out rest of our nukes also". Not that USA had such plan, but would Soviets know that?
I love the way Kennedy pronounces Cuba, as "Cuber". It's absolutely awesome that you included the real recording of the discussions. Mind blowing to imagine all these Larger-Than-Life figures sitting in a room having this discussion like they are playing cards or something.
*The rest of the world to USA and USSR* :
Q U I T F R I G G I N A R O U N D
I kinda expected half of the video to be "...many, many, many, many more Soviets"
"Anybody not wearing two million sunblock is gonna have a real bad day, get it?!"
Danny Ocean: The casino we are robbing has a security system which rivals most nuclear silos
Andy Garcia: Well, I did learn something from the Soviets....
Leave it to the marine in the room to say the truth. In this sort of situation no matter what you do: you're screwed.
Well, the saying "There's always some son of a bitch who doesn't get the word" *is* a Marine saying.
He was full of shit, and a warmonger at that... There was a clear path to avoid war, but sure, eitherway they were screwed...
I LOVE this series. Is it wrong to wish the crisis had lasted more than 13 days? This series makes me.
If there's a day 14, we'd all be dead LOL.
It'd be nice if it extended a bit more but it'd AWESOME that this hasn't happen at all
@@joshuacondell1686 I agree but dont be Double Serious
LeMay is a much more complex figure than the caricature we imagine him as today... He was an intelligent guy who tended to surround himself with intelligent advisors (MacNamara had actually been part of his staff during WW2) His reasons for wanting war where coldly logical: He believed that war with the USSR was inevitable, he knew that the US had a massive advantage in nuclear capability, and lastly he knew that the Soviets where catching up and might eventually surpass the US... If war was inevitable, it only made sense to go now, while we have the advantage. It's also important to point out that the attack on Pearl Harbor had a massive and long lasting effect an that generation of military brass... They tended to obsess over the idea of a surprise attack. not saying that I agree... just saying that he had what he though where good reasons.
Humanity in a nutshell: Billions of people give the power of some of the biggest decisions in the hands of selected few, and more often than not they are equally flawed like us.
Communal decision-making is even worse. If you want evidence of that you should go watch their WW1 specials about the Dunsterforce.
Dragonstorm Dipro are you saying that everyone in the world should all take a vote every time something important comes up? I don’t think so.
they are simply humans, exactly like the rest of us, flaws and all
This is why successful democracies have an educated populace, a functioning fourth estate, separation of powers, etc. That's how you get the right people in charge and people around them giving the right advice. It's not just about voting.
Well, we don't necessarily "give it." The system is in place when we're born and it's all we know.
General Shoup,it should be noted, wasn't part of ExComm because as the Marine Corps are a part of the Navy Department, he wasn't necessarily a Chief of Staff but merely the Commandant of the Marine Corps.
Are they still part of the Navy??
@@JorgeRodriguez-de6eo Yes, they are an entity under the Department of the Navy, similar to how the new Space Force is an entity under the Department of the Air Force
"Quit friggin around"
- me, looking at my whole life -
"Ok, Gen Shoupe. I'll quit friggin around"
Always been interested in WW2 and post-WW2 geopolitics and this event might be the one I find most interesting because of how terrifying it is.
To realize that almost everything had to go the way it did to avoid Worldwide nuclear holocaust, sincere nuclear war on a global scale.
To now know that everyone around The President advocated for a move that would have ended human society as we know it - and possibly humanity itself - is so creepy.
I'm not one of those people that overly glorify JFK. He had his faults and wasn't what I'd call a "terrific" President in his time served but he may have had more individual moments of binary options that he got right than any other US President. Options where there is no middle ground or "so-so" outcomes but an absolute win or an absolute loss...and he usually got it right.
This entire thing is made all the more creepy because most Presidents since would just listen to the Generals and military men around them. I can't think of a POTUS, other than maybe Carter, that would have the entire JCS saying one thing and not doing it. From Nixon to LBJ, Clinton to Bush, Bush to Obama, Reagan to Trump (ffs, just imagine) they'd listen and have invaded. 100%.
When you learn about what we didn't know at the time it's almost a literal miracle that nuclear war did not come from The Cuban Missile Crisis.
Even down to Vasili Arkhipov, who refused authorize use of a nuclear torpedo during the blockade! It took SO MANY things going right when going "wrong" meant the end of The World.
It's fascinating in how terrifying it is.
I like to think it did happen, it's just all the nuclear weapons igniting in such close proximity of time, some simultaneous, that it caused a rip in causality to provide us with our current reality (not that it's super great) but its one that all those things that went right, actually happened.
You don't know that half of it! JFK was surely a scumbag, who went back on his word not to invade Cuba or kill Castro once the missiles were removed ☝️ that is why Castro sent KGB agent Lee Harvey Oswald with DGI support to shoot JFK - which is exactly what he did 🚩
These facts were covered up by LBJ and Richard Helms to avoid WW III
I would LOVE to have heard some of the stuff General LeMay had to say after the president left the conference room with the recording equipment still going on. That guys was a character!
He was a chicken hawk.
@@jmitterii2 lol you clearly don't know very much about LeMay at all then if you think that. LeMay was a 100% legit war hero in WW2. He led himself many bombing raids over Germany.
Or maybe you just don't know the definition of a "chicken hawk" which is "a person who speaks out in support of war yet has avoided active military service." . As a leader of the Joint Chiefs of staff LeMay clearly did not avoid military service. And he was also a active participate in WW2 as I said above as well.
To Vinny Siracusa - LeMay was quite a commander, leading his men personally bombing Tokyo. But in a moment of clarity he also admitted having behaved like a war criminal in Japan. Maybe he had no other choice - who knows? Robert McNamara tells that story in « The Fog of War ».
@@brunodesrosiers9603 So LeMay talking about being a war criminal has a specific reason he said that. The bombing of cities like LeMay and many other allied and USSR pilots did and planned out during WW2 was at the time not technically a war crime. But what LeMay was saying was that had the allies lost the war somehow he would have been tried for a war crime by the Axis nations via the way the allies and the USSR were trying Axis military officers and civilian leaders. Since the allies and USSR were trying people for war crimes and crimes against humanity that were not laws prior to the war.
To Vinny Siracusa : Yes indeed, this is how the legal system works. But this still isn’t pretty. LeMay distinguished himself in his efforts to maximize efficiency. You may well know that this resulted in bombing millions of civilians (living in wooden houses) with incendiary bombs in Japan. Long story short, had I been in JFK’s shoes during the Cuban missiles crisis, I would have considered Curtis LeMay’s advice through that prism.
That green lava lamp is a bit slow.
I'll be honest, I've been watching it like a hawk every episode, waiting for it to do something. Red lava lamp is running like a champ though.
Kennedy deserves so much credit. These warhawks were down his throat pushing for WWIII. If the U.S. had invaded, it would have been a bloodbath, not knowing there were thousands of Soviet troops on the island. Thank God sanity prevailed in the end.
Fear is an appropriate response!
I was conceived during this crisis.
It sure did a lot to bring some folks together ... 🤪😆
TimeGhost has turned this series up to eleven with the included recorded audio from the actual players in this mad game. Wow.
Lemay was really toeing the line of how much he could say about his leaders inaction.
Nail-biting suspense. Can't wait for the next installment
"Good night and good luck".😆 That was brilliant.
Great work Indy. I always wanted to know more about this topic and you helped me (bit by bit with parts) with that
Do we get to hear about or see the RF-101 VooDoos based at Orlando? They were flying night and day taking pictures. They would fly supersonic at treetop level! I saw some Cuban footage of them, and wow! Also, any pix of Florida? A friend told me the beaches were lined with Hawk missiles and there was a Nike hiding behind every palm tree.
"Lowest risk point of action"
"preemptive surprise invasion"
At the time when the red scare was prominent I guess I can get why they'd be so out of touch with reality. But the recordings really make the joint chiefs of staff sound like detached morons in hindsight.
Matricx700 More like Generals who’s jobs are to be paranoid.
Matricx700 What about them? Literally the jobs of every general on Earth is to be paranoid. That’s how strategy and defense is formed.
@@-et37- I'd say that being rational and analyzing suits so powerful generals far better than being paranoid.
@@-et37- Tell that to uhh... Nazi commanders.
Perhaps if these guys were to be first in line off the boat, they wouldn't be so keen.
Lt. JG John F. Kennedy's PT boat got rammed by a Japanese destroyer, cut in half and then it exploded. He saved most of his crew, including a badly injured sailor that Kennedy towed through the water for hours. Maxwell Taylor was Kennedy's Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. He commanded the 101st airborne during the invasion of Normandy. He jumped out of a plane with the troops and was the first Allied general officer on the ground. Curtis Lemay, Air Force, flew combat missions over Germany and North Africa. Most of the men around the war table for the crisis had been on the pointy end of the stick.
Señor Curtis LeMay! 😂😂😂
These presentations keep getting better - actual taped voices from that time expressing both frustration and hawkish solutions that our young president wisely later discounted.
Those damn warhawks were insane (they *always* are)! The lowest risk option is airstrikes and a full scale invasion? None of us would be alive if Kennedy listened to them, and the world would probably be uninhabitable.
Even worse; they were severely harassing the Soviet subs; and if it wasn't for Arkiphov's cool head, world would be toast.
Hearing these tapes is absolutely amazing, and the quotes you started this episode off with sure was fitting.
This is absolutely gripping!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
That’s a great picture of General “Bombs Away”. Le May chewing on his ever present Cigar. My dad ( a USAF Colonel) said that SAC Commander you didn’t want to mess with, unless you wanted to end your career in Thule AFB in Greenland ! 😂🤣😅🦌
JFK be like “cuburr”
He really hated Q-bert
He sounds just like my grandfather. He would say it the same way too.
No one:
Curtis LeMay: We need to wipe them off the map before they can do anything
No one: *stares in confusion*
Curtis LeMay: Yes we do
I'm waiting for someone to comment on Indy's tie
I thought he was wearing makeup, but it might just be a video filter.. to make it look like it was filmed more contemporary. Maybe both? lol
I am commenting on Indy's tie:
Indy has a tie.
Sir, you beat me to it. Only Indy could wear a magnificent tie like that, and not let the tie wear him.
In the 50s one of my uncles dressed in a very similar fashion to Indy in the studio. He had a most distinguished war record...... as a British Army Captain his most hazardous campaign was organising concert parties for the troops many miles behind the front lines in North Africa and other theatres of war, please pardon the pun.
This fine officer braved the onslaught of chorus lines of young girlie dancers determined to "do their bit" for King and Country.
He did not emerged unscathed. Mentally, that is.
[Slight laughter, a bit forced] That part gave me a good chuckle.
"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent" in regards to Indy's quotation of Isaac Asimov's paraphrase.
Time to dust off the 'Foundation' series.
You got to put in perspective that these generals were military officers at the outbreak of WW2 and saw America get caught with their pants down at Pearl Harbor. Their biggest fear is getting caught again like that. Im glad JFK did not take their advice but you got to understand as well where they are coming from.
Yep. And the men on the Soviet side had all been through something worse with Operation Babarossa.
Two global super-powers, both coming out of a war where they had been brought into it by a surprise attack made for a very dangerous situation. (see, Able Archer 1983)
If Curtis LeMay had his way, there would be no world right now. Such a single minded man.
@Sheldon Robertson You're delusional
@Sheldon RobertsonMost evil ideology. Are you talking about the white supremacy that Curtis LeMay championed in 1968 presidential election as vice-president of the George Wallace
ticket?
@Sheldon Robertson Sure and ideology based on equality for all is ten thousand times worse than Mr Segregation now, Segregation tomorrow, Segregation forever.
@Sheldon Robertson Of course, conceived by a racist Carl Marx, no surprise.
Sheldon, can't tell if you giving us parody, or serious.
Since life has become one big Onion News broadcast, you just can't tell anymore. Same with all the replies to this comment.
Can't wait for you to do the Pershing 2 Crisis. Don't forget the appropriate New Wave Music! 😎
who will do the invasion? The marines. who's opposed to the invasion? The marines...
General David M. Shoup was awarded The Medal of Honor at Tarawa. Cuba was much bigger than Tarawa and he could see that an invasion would require a much larger landing force then what they had planned to give him.
I appreciate Shoup saying frig so the channel can stay monetised. What a considerate man lol.
Why is the us military so hopeful and confident about the lack of respond from SU ?
I would expect them to assume the worst when considering taking action like this
As I recall, when LeMay was George Wallace's VP running mate in 1968, he was told by a Wallace staffer: "Keep yo' bowls open and yo' mouth closed." Sage advice, even from somebody associated with George Wallace.
Excellent. Am really enjoying this series.
Thanks fred!
Interesting to hear of JFK’s concern for Berlin’s vulnerability. His handling of the Cuban missile crises was very well done.
I lived thru this as a junior in high school ( private school far from my home ) we were told in assembly that our leaders would work this out
Our football coach and also our senior English teacher was an Army Ranger on D yes a guy who scaled the cliffs tough as nail all these guys no soy boys here, they knew it was hard on us so far from homes. But they inspired confidence They truly were the adults in the room full of teenage boys who were all in for a war because we had never seen a war like they had.... this brings back many memories
Damn this is good.
Thanks!
This is cruel, every episode I watch is a cliffhanger that I can't wait to see the next day!
Its sad. Listenening to the generals talk, I have a very low opinion of them, they dont seem to be too well educated, and are more annoyed and confused by diplomacy, so they would rather go to war than be unconfortable for a few days.
That's their job.
Better to have to restrain them then to motivate them.
If they won't advocate the possibilities for action, who would?
As long as the civil leadership takes it all critically - it's the healthy situation.
The military is meant to be aggressive and decisive in their actions, which is why most of the Generals in the Joint Chiefs believed that a pre-emptive strike would solve the crisis before it got out of hand. This is also another reason why the military is commanded by the President, a representative of the civilian population, who are less inclined to wage war.
You have to remember that the fog of war exists for them while we have 2020 hindsight.
What is known to Military
-Multiple Missiles have been identified in Cuba
-Soviet Ships are transporting missiles
-More missiles and supplies are arriving as time goes by
What is believed to be true by Military
- Cuba is controlling the missiles (Soviets succeeded in their deceptive tactics)
- If America fails to take decisive action it could embolden the Soviets in other regions and cause more fragile alliances to break down as America is viewed as weak.
- The missiles are not armed yet nor have nuclear warheads arrived. It's expected they will be armed within 2 months (probably sooner).
- The US could easily take out Cuba's military and take out the missile sites. This confrontation would not involve direct attacks against the Soviet Union or Soviet troops so it wouldn't lead to war with Soviets.
What is not known by the Military
- CIA has not identified all missile sites.
- The Soviet Union has tens of thousands of troops on the ground in Cuba.
- The Soviet Union has tactical nukes (smaller nukes intended for targeting military targets) and the Soviet policy is that Tactical Nukes are fair game.
If we examine the situation and ignore what is not known, the military's arguments are very sound. The longer they wait, the greater the risk to the United States, politically, and militarily. The US can easily crush Castro and the Cuban forces so a decisive strike would put a quick end to the conflict and send a message to the world that the US won't stand for aggressive Soviet actions. In hindsight, this would have been disastrous for all the reasons that we know now. Kennedy made the right call, but the Military was not made up of morons, they were just forming their plans on what they believed to be accurate intelligence.
@@jonathanbelfire Not knowing doesn,'t mean it isn't happening. These generals sounds so optimistic and hopeful about the situation and not considering what they don't know.
you would assume that they would consider the bad possible result instead of ,Yes we can bomb and invade cuba without them being able to do anything'
@Stephen Jenkins Tactical nukes tend to be much smaller than standard nuclear payloads and can be quickly prepped and launched at the enemy. They tend to be in small bombs or part of small missiles that can be launched almost immediately. The intended targets are troops/ships/vehicles/defenses of enemy forces. Soviet policy at the time was that tactical nukes were ok to use and wouldn't start a nuclear war. US policy was that any nukes fired demanded full retaliatory strike (including tactical nukes). It's interesting because it's easy to imagine a conventional war breaking out only for the Soviet Union to use tactical nukes (thinking it was fair game) only for America to respond with full nuclear response (which the Soviets would not have expected).
I wonder if Indy's outfit is going to get more dishevelled as the crisis continues
Frigging around!
And this my friends is why we don't let the military declare war or decide when to use force.
japan is even a better exemple than this.
@@noobster4779 Technically the president still needs congressional approval to go to war as per the War Powers Act. But we have clearly fallen far astray from the rule of law in this country
@@noobster4779 The president is a democratically elected civilian, and only (nominally) becomes part of the military after being elected. They don't (in practice) need approval for military action , but they wouldn't be president without public approval during the electoral process.
That's not to say that there are no issues with said Democratic process, and certainly not to say that the president is always qualified to make military decisions. But the current president notwithstanding, having a civilian in charge is better than the "dogs of war" making the military decisions.
What is it called when all option to put out on a table and every other option is argued for and against.
It's called brainstorming mr. Nidel and that's what the president's advisors do.. military, political.. healthwise. economic wise they brainstorm
Gen. Shoup would later go on to become the most prominent and vocal former miliutary leader opposed to the Vietnam war. As with any retired military leader who speaks out against current policy, he was ostracized and had his loyalty and patriotism questioned. He also openly spoke out against the increasing American militarism and corporate integration with the military establishment.
Question: Exactly how strategic was West Berlin, or perhaps how was it strategic? ExComm and JFK seemed to place a *lot* of weight on what the Soviets' plans for it were, bearing in mind it housed a few million surrounded German Civvies (admittedly with a large attendant NATO presence).
I hope at one point you do this type of day by day videos of the Able Archer crises in 83
👍🏼 great video
Don't frig around; I'm tired of everybody frigging around all the time!
LeMay: You’re in a pretty bad fix Mr. President.
JFK: You’re in the fix with me ( and your Jedi mind trick won’t work with me you psychopath)
@Sheldon Robertson thanks for sharing. You're appreciated for who you are.
9:08 the captions use the transcript interpretation which tends to increase the drama - turning JFKs quick “Whasay..” into “What did you say?” and calling the reaction “slight laughter; a bit forced”. In the full recording it sounds more like actual laughter at LeMay - others at the table spontaneously break up and when Max Taylor continues talking you can still hear amusement in his voice. JFK knew LeMays views and did not take him seriously.
I never knew how insane this event was!
I could see the Edward R. Murrow influence this time more than any other. I don't know if it was purposeful, but the short commentary leading up to quote after quote was very much like some of his shows.
My father worked at Dahlgren Navel Weapons Lab. He was called on an open line and asked to compute effects of nuclear bombs targeted on Cuba, for residents of Guantanamo Bay, Florida/Miami, and Central American. That depends on a lot of things. One of his assumptions in his computation, was "wind heading directly towards" the affected area. Under that scenario, Guantanamo Bay was TOAST.
The question is, what would Conrad von Hotzendorf do?
I'm astonished at how political the military had become , they were defining policy
rather than giving the president options they were forcing their solution on him
Didn't they cover the Cuban Missile Crisis day by day before? Or am I going insane lmao?
God I love this series
Actually the original quote was "Politics is the last refuge of the incompetent" -- Cicero.
Gen LeMay was the MAN !
"Neidell. Indy Neidell."
You prefer your martini shaken or stirred?
"Shaken. Not stirred."(Scottish Accent)
Love the background music
I love this soundtrack.
Oh let's go I like this series *WOOOO*
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@TimeGhost
Dude you need to do a series about the Falklands war that's is probably a good idea
General Shoupe doesn't swear as much as a marine typically does.
Le May said it : You do not have the guts to do it . This is still true
Today from the LOWELL (Mass.) SUN....the big news is related to Czechoslovakia--a diplomat in their New York mission murdered his wife, then in an embassy limousine led police on a high speed chase across New Jersey into Pennsylvania, where he crashed. When confronted by the police, he shot himself in the head and subsequently died in the hospital.
I wouldn't be surprised if Curtis LeMay carpet bombed his lawn instead of mowing it.
I’ve never heard someone say “frig” that much since Randy from Trailer Park Boys. FRIG OFF, DONNA!
Really interesting content, keep it up.
Thanks a lot! Appreciate the support.
Wishfull thinking in the upper parts of the armed forces... Where have we seen this before? And what would be the consequences this time?
And le may wants to kill everything in sight, big surprise.
That man is really especially unpleasant.
Thank you for including the original audio, it's excelent
Wow, fucker all but threatened jfk too, no shits given.
I love the fact that Kennedy admits that the Soviets were able to take Hungary because the West was busy with the Suez crisis. Oh boy what happens if they get busy again?
Nice tie tho
Your blue/green lava lamp doesn't work very well....
11:03 David M. Shoup, pronounced "shoop": rhymes with, umm, "sloop".
If you're able, could you do a special episode from cuban perspective and a bit of Russian, as this is mostly the American perspective
The commies would have to first declassify their documents, something they will do maybe a hundred years from now.
@@Darwinek "if youre able"
Excellent Episode Indeed. The question I would like to ask , is what was the " The Dangerous Radioactive Sauce " with in the Cuban Bunker Complex to kill so many Russian Service personnel by Radioactivity? Taking into account this is before the Nuclear War Heads for the tactical medium range Missiles even arrived in Cuba ??? Could it have been yet another dodgy portable nuclear reactor leak as most of them did in the Soviet era ???
Thirteen Days film got it some things quite well.
CJCOS kind of reminds me of the cult General from Metalocolypse who always recommends military action.