Things you never knew about Kei Cars - The Carmudgeon Show with Cammisa and Derek from ISSIMI Ep. 65
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2024
- On today’s episode, Jason and Derek uncover the fruitful history of Kei cars, the limitations they possess, and the various misconceptions that most enthusiasts have taken as truth. Jason and Derek discuss the differences in character between Honda Beat, Autozam AZ-1, Suzuki Cappuccino, and the other sub-700cc pocket rockets that have become popular 25 year rule imports into the US in recent years.
Today’s topic also explores how different world governments create (and destroy) the existence of specific vehicle types, as well as the important cars throughout history that have mobilized developed and developing countries. Just like the Model T and the Beetle mobilized the United States and Germany respectively, the Kei car was responsible for getting the masses in Japan on the road while establishing a standard for efficiency and reliability that would eventually define Japanese auto manufacturing around the world.
All this and more, brought to you by the Hagerty Podcast Network.
This episode is sponsored by Reliable Carriers- mention Carmudgeon in your next shipping quote and get 10% off!
reliablecarrie...
Small correction, the chicken tax (the small truck import tax you mentioned) was named after a retaliation on the import ban on us chicken in France and Germany (west Germany at the time) and not Japan as mentioned in the podcast.
I said Europe!
Yeah and if I remember correctly, the truck they wanted off of U.S. was the VW Transporter.
Loved the simple solution to the TV failure 😆
Gran Turismo 4 is full of kei cars. I love them.
It's hilarious to have a 4WD 660 cc car available or even a kei truck.
My son's used to switch off damage, and run up the back of the Daihatsu Midget, with a chaparral fan car at full speed. The speed of that midget was over 200 mph.
I think Gran Turismo 3 only had 1, in the Alto Works
There once was a rather husky customer with a Ford Festiva where I worked. The Festiva would wear the front tires abnormally despite our best efforts to align it, until we realized... with the car on the alignment machine in spec, when the owner got in the car, the camber & toe went totally out. We aligned it with his simulated weight in the driver's seat, and it was fine after that.
Festiva is such an interesting car. Engineered by Mazda, made by the Koreans and sold as a Ford
I am still waiting for the episode about Ferdinand Piech.
As are most of us.
We didn’t forget Jason!
I didn't forget, I promise! (How could I, when all y'all keep reminding me!!??)
@@TheCarmudgeonShow did they forget ?
I have daily driven a 1998 ha22s alto works AWD for 6 years. The most under appreciated thing about Kei cars is how well they work in the driving environment of Japan.
It's not just cities that have small roads, most country town streets and mountain passes would be considered single lane one way only in other countries. Filled with blind intersections and obstacles.
Kei cars, with their small dimensions, great visibility and tight turning circles can easily get past each other, while meeting even a small SUV has you cursing the idiot who thought buying one was a good idea.
I once was behind a jeep that dropped a wheel off the side off a canyon road, causing a 4 hour traffic jam. The car was wider than the road. local police had to be dispatched to get everyone else off the road so a tow truck could recover the car.
What was the tow truck? A Suzuki Jiminy with huge chocks and a tow hook.
@JasonCammisa: A fix for your Beat steering sensitivity: try lowering your front tire pressure by 2-4psi and see if it helps. I ended up dropping from 32psi down to 24psi (on the advice of a ride and handling engineer) when going from FWD to mid-engine and it helped immensely.
I have an AZ-1 and it’s such a fun car to drive! Any speed you go, it feels like you’re doing 100 mph more. I’ve also never seen so many people take photos of a car. Even while driving. Took a crowd of people from 3 ford GT’s playing with track mode and the migration of people with my doors up was crazy at a cars and coffee.
Can confirm parking in Japan must be within 2 km of your registered residential address. I recently did this process for my white plate. You also need to provide a map from the city office showing the exact location and dimensions of the parking space, and documented evidence you are the current owner of said parking.
My kei car on the other hand is registered in a prefecture 300+ km from my house, has no parking permit and no one cares. Officially I'm meant to get a new licence plate for it, but the local registration office informed me I should "quietly forget to do that" as tax and insurance where it's registered currently is lower.
You should make a podcast discussing diesel vs petrol.
Diesel stinks but it’s good for lorries and vans, that’s all there’s to discuss 😂
I think they did one a few years back
@@indiebekonn it is interesting that it caught on in Europe, but in America people don't really like them.
They do it almost every time they talk about old Mercedes Benzes lol
@@Trussme96 other diesels are more intriguing
As a primarily podcast listener (driving to work and all) is there a way we podcast listeners can hear the audio of the inserts? Sometimes you guys just have an insert for the sound of an engine or something and podcast doesn't get that insert for reference. Really love the show!
Bonus fun fact: the original Smart fortwo was briefly sold in Japan as Smart K with even smaller track, tires and fenders to fit the regulations. Very brave on a car that originally, without stability control, failed the "moose-test" ("Elchtest" safety test). Second generation didn't even have an engine small enough to go that route.
According to my parents, my third word was a funny version of the car brand Mercedes (imagine, I'm from Switzerland, so it definitely sounded stupid). Only got worse since then. Currently rocking around the Alps in a Skoda Octavia Scout Kombi and a MX5. Had 5 cylinder Fiat, Saab 900 Turbo or lifted XJ Cherokee. Open minded car content like this one is rare, you guys push so many buttons all around and about my life as a car enthusiast.
Don't understand, why there aren't millions of subscribers. But - some guys are having a really good time with your podcast. Thank you!
35 years ago we drove our Honda Acty van from Sydney to Adelaide Australia, in the middle at Hay I pulled into a service station and the guy pumping petrol had a 650cc single cylinder trail bike, our Honda Acty had the old Kei car engine size, it was 550cc, it was the first Kei car that guy had ever seen. We could have put 3 of those bikes in the back. Small, underpowered but perfectly formed. Ps the Honda Acty van was mid engined, with a transverse engine, rear wheel drive with a de Dion rear suspension. It's been an excellent episode, it's the regulations that make Kei car designers work so hard and make exceptional vehicles with brilliant packaging. I would love to see the kart track race.
I randomly decides to see if there was an update…Holy crap you have a whole channel!
You guys have really thought me a lot about car sound and it’s helped me narrow down what I actually enjoy about an engines/cars sound.
Oddly enough this is how I ended up with my truck 😂 6cylinder is better than 8 for reasons
Love the episode. Can you do an episode specifically on diesel's. Stuff like the OM606, 1HDFTE, BMW M57 would definitely be interesting
Cammisa, you and James slowly creeping out of the photo shot with the "youtubers" on the car trek set was absolutely hilarious. Saw this on the DDE Stories page.
The losers on Car Dreck?
Ha! I didn't see that - I'll go look but it's probably too late!
@@TheCarmudgeonShow DDE Stories UA-cam channel. The video opens up with your face clearly spelling out reluctance and about 1 minute in you and James quietly sneak out of the additional photo opportunities ua-cam.com/video/stgyNa_m44I/v-deo.html
Love the Kei cars and the fun they represent for cheap. When I was young most of us had these sized cars and they where amazing. People today miss out on the driving experience these provide.
When I lived in Japan, I drove a panjero 2dr.,and I thought that was smallish. But Kei cars are tiny but efficient in their design. I would love to have a Suzuki Carry Kei truck or a Nissan Figero.
Figero is not a Kei car. Get a carry truck 4wd, buy a lift kit, put fat muddies on it and embarrass the hell out of every one who can't do what your Tin can with drivetrain on Oreos can.
@@kieranmandy9987 I know, but it's really cute and small
You'd probably be better off with the international version of the Carry that has the larger 1L+ i4 engines and slightly bigger overall dimension if you live in the US.
After seeing an Autozam and Cappuccino at Monterey Car Week this year, I kind of want a Beat now.
EDIT: In fact, it was the exact same Cappuccino in the thumbnail! Adorable little car.
@Jason On the Kei car (or any car) front wheel alignment thing; you can buy a device called a Track Ace sold here in the UK. I'm in no way affiliated with it but been using one for years with great results. It's actually pretty fun to use too if you're a diy car nerd.
Awesome podcasts too by the way, best thing going on YT atm!
Again, Jason is a fantastic journalist in what ever medium he is working in. Together, you two are like Ed Macman and Johnny Carson, or Conan and Andy, simply perfect!
I love that you guys did a show on kei cars. i own a Honda N-One here in NZ and i love the thing. 42mpg from a tiny tank, it's slow but its so perfect. it's packaged so well, im 6ft and i fit easily and comfortably
They're so cool! Though I live in NZ and have never seen one. Weird since they were so common in Japan from what I understand?
@@christopherjohnston6343 Yeah they're really 'big' in Japan. Carjam says there're only 10 in the country. Spoke to parts guy from the local Honda dealership; Honda NZ were planning to bring the N-One to NZ but couldn't price them competitively enough. it would've been only 2-3 grand cheaper than the Jazz. Honda NZ did bring in a few units to test. Mine was a brought in a private dealer in auckland.
I once payed $1730 to ship a crx to hawaii that I bought for $850!
Your work is ALWAYS amazing, truly the best discussion topics that could be interesting for car nuts
Dutch Roll is similar to the G-Body Shuffle.
While the height difference between you is relatively small, differences in other measurements may be the primary reason you can’t both fit comfortably. Consider leg and torso length, as well as forgotten issues like hamstring and lower back tightness affecting your preferred seating positions. Any minute issue alone may seem insignificant, but two or more in conjunction could easily make a car on the margin of comfort an issue.
I am *dying* to see an ICONS episode on Kei cars. That would be FANTASTIC
hello from south east asia where every car has a flat $110k tax! this is perfect for my bicycle commute home thank u
Don't get hit by something my dude
@@martinvrabel5513 made it !
That simultaneous voice filled pause at 20:10 was magical. Only other time I've heard that was with Linus and Luke on the WAN show ages ago.
I would love to see Throttle House on the channel! Y’all should get guests on for special episodes.
Funny you should say that...
@@TheCarmudgeonShow We got TST for interviews, I don't want my Carmudgeon filled with people who ARE not the Carmuidgeons...
The Mercedes Sprinter plant is here in Charleston,(Summerville actually) South Carolina
Love the show. Minor suggestion for us aging listeners.... The talking volume goes up and down (think of that tv show, movie, or channel that drives you nuts), which makes following challenging at times.
Still waiting for the Ferdinand Piech episode.🤣
You and everybody else. Maybe one day Jason will finish reading his autobiography. :P
Thanks for making mondays cool
It's Clapton Hyphen Scott
We wish.
Paolo yellow hat in the tv reflection mint 👌🏾
Three things : 1. Looking forward to that Icons episode and also dreading it as I have been looking at Beats and Capuccinos for a while now. I hope they remain affordable for a bit longer... :/ 2) About the van scene in Japan, have you guys seen Dadjibans (Dodge vans) racing? UA-cam it. Really cool, but also looks terrifying, haha. 3) As far as I know, there is only one foreign (to Japan) manufacturer that sells kei cars on the Japanese market: Caterham. If I am not mistaken, it uses a Suzuki kei truck engine and gearbox for that application.
I just love watching hyphen shifting and fidgeting the coaster and the bottle.
As always great show. Really appreciate the level of automotive knowledge and historical context.. As a modern Mini driver (my spouse and I own an F57 convertible and F54 Clubman- both stick), wondering if there is any chance of producing a Icons or Carmudgeon show about Mini's history. I know that you both alluded to being less than impressed with BMW's handling of modern Mini (Episode 42), but as a moderate gearhead who tries to balance practicality, kids college payments and enjoyment, relatively speaking, I wonder if the 3rd Gen Mini is really that "bad" given where the rest of the world is going (electric, automated appliances). As a person who grew up on Mazda and VW, I find Mini scratches that itch.
Anyway, makes me happy that both of you are creating excellent content. The Braptor Video was fantastic. And worth at least two views given the close caption easter eggs. 🙂. Take care gentlemen.
I love my kei cars and kei trucks. This is gonna be a good episode.
It always confuses me why the kei cars were limited to 65 hp when a contemporary 600cc motorcycle could reliably make 100hp
to keep them slower and safer, pretty simple
@@AidanRitchie the engines probably last a lot longer too - rather than having to rev to like 10k rpm to get anywhere.
Probably also biased towards lower end torque rather than top end power for moving the weight around. An R6 revs to like 14k. (Torque being a relative term). They're also made to be cheap and a 600cc bike has a large chunk of its price tag devoted to its engine.
@@dln.sweeney It would’ve had 25% less torque but 35% more power. There is also the development cost of a whole new engine, the components for a turbocharged system and a strong gearbox to handle the torque. An N/A engine could’ve also helped the az-1’s spinning out problem.
@@ps1hagrid823 how long do these engines last though? I had the impression that sports bike engine life was measured in the tens of thousands of kms rather than the hundreds of thousands of kms that a car is expected to last for
Someone needs to do a Hayabusa engine swap into an Autozam. That would be baller.
Doesn't fit. Would need to reengineer the chassis.
I'm shocked to discover there is a car I have driven (and hard on an autocross course) that Jason has not. The Cappuccino was a lot of fun.
please do make an icons episode on the az-1, cappuccino and beat with throttle house. it'll be a blast!
The discussion about Kei car engine sizes made me realize that the entire Kei engine is smaller than a SINGLE cylinder of a reasonably modern Dyna 😂
The printout on the broken TV is hilarious
I feel dumb because i originally pronounced "kei" properly but then started pronouncing it "key" when i heard EVERYONE around ke say otherwise and it made me so mad but i accepted it instead of researching which is my fault. Every day i learn more and more how in control of my own reality that i am and how i do not take advantage of that
I want a kei car :(
I love the show, but sometimes both of you guys do this whisper talk into the mic that makes me think my TV is broken. Not as broken as your TV, but…Jason, you’re eyetalian. Speak up!
So when are we getting the episode about Saab, since it is getting mentioned almost every episode?
Dammit I have to wait till next week for another episode : (
Could that Auto-zam which was actually a rebadged Lancia, have possibly been the _White Hen_ ? (Y10)
Autozam imported Lancias to Japan in the early 1990s, they sold in their dealerships the Thema, Delta, Dedra, Prisma and Y10. They were a subsidiary of Mazda that's all, the cars were branded as Lancias just sold in Autozam showrooms next to the Autozam branded kei cars
Pretty sure the AZ-1 never came with the K6A (Aluminum Block/Timing Chain) in it's later years. It exclusively had the F6A (Iron Block/Timing Belt). The Cappuccino however came with the K6A in the later years (EA21R).
Most late-model Japanese cars are exported to countries around the world. Not scrapped in junkyards.
Do you think it is more prudent for the US to incentivise Kei-sized cars instead of electric vehicles?
That would be interesting... it would make sense too. Especially for big cities where they're trying to keep bigger cars out and push for transit, bicycle, on walking.
@@genkideguire , I agree. I would love to see Kei sized trucks doing deliveries instead of full sized box trucks clogging the streets, usually they are nearly empty only 1/4 full at best. Lots of wasted gas.
That wouldn't happen Americans love their big cars way too much no matter what the automotive trend is we find a way to fit a big car in there
No way lol people in North America buy trucks and SUVs for fun. If you tried to tax people for having larger vehicles they'd riot.
Every traffic jam in the country would halve in length.
Case of the mondays is now over
The busso V6 basically sounds like any other V6, which is to say a bit unpleasant (other than NSX V6 or Chevy V6)
You need to hear a Busso from the driver's seat, they sound amazing
I love Honda "Baby NSX" S660 Kei car😍
Transverse Alfa Busso cars have factory stainless manifolds/headers leading to un-even length downpipes. This inefficient overlap of exhaust pulses sounds like it creates this extra bit of chattery character before smoothing out.
There is good video on youtube of GTV Cup 42 & 150 with the same exhaust but different length downpipes.
ua-cam.com/video/tu47Zr_MhC0/v-deo.html
Longitudinal cars are all 12v (although some south african variants i think got a 24v ?) The 12V also has cast iron exhaust headers with equal length manifolds. The the fuel injection / valve train is so noisey on the late 12v due to the part mechanical bosch system.
Additionally The early 24V transverse cars (164/916GTV) got the larger 83mm Dellorto throttle body (more akin to the 12 vlave TB). the later cars have Bosch fly-by-wire potentio-meter throttles .. and then they start getting primary manifold catalysts in the run out models/ 3200cc
The South African GTV6 3.0 had 6 carbs like the Alfa 6, as you say no 24V longitudinally from the factory or from South Africa. Equal length downpipe transverse Bussos sound amazing but the ground clearance for the manifolds is very little. I've owned every variant of Busso from an Alfa 6 to a late 916 GTV 3.2 and everything inbetween - the best sounding for me? A 1992 164 3.0 24V QV, what a noise, a close second would be a 1987 75 3.0 and then I would say a 156 2.5 24V.
Oh that's the Revelations studio, is there going to be an episode about these (or a seperate episode for all 3)?
Shhhh!! Quiet, don't tell anyone!
Theres a guy i follow on IG who drives his '32 Ford Hot Rod through downtown Tokyo, and i can only imagine the attention that gets
i would only watch the nap episode if you bring Anthony in to tell us how many cylinders your snores have.
Ford does the chicken tax dance with the Transit Connect still :D
My grandma owns one of those long wheelbase isn't it just the EuroVan
Not for long. It's getting cut from the US market soon
I know it might not be the most enuthist oriented thing, but you guys should talk about the history of Front Wheel Drive cars and notable FWD cars! Like that Lancia ;)
I mean Jason's baby the Scirocco is FWD. They do own and like FWD cars.
Some keicars got tasty specs once they're not bound to Japanese regulations, the Daihatsu Copen got a big-block 1.3 N/A in 2006 and is a punchy little car.
It's still not fast but makes a good pace on mountain roads. And I can confirm it will do 190km/h on the Nürburgring but only in one downhill section ( Foxhole )
Downside is only that it weighs 850kg which is a lot in kei car terms.
8:23
OK guys, "someone in the comments will tell ya?" OK, here it is: You have a new TV sceeen and you have a crew member who can Google and cast to the screen while you chat. Use the screen.
ha ha Porscheaa, neesan but we get jagWAAR instead of Jaag U ar. slightly annoyed Scotsman,
sorry not Jason, but Derek tut tut
For about 15 mins the Lancia Thema was basically a John Varvatos Chrysler 300
Awesome mon gift
How did you pass emissions in california for the kei?
You guys just explained the real reason why people are loosing interest in cars because deap down we know we are being conned into bad ridding SUV ,s with huge wheels for the manufacturers benefits and not our own,the manufacturers talk about us as consumers but when you can’t choose and get what you want ,that’s not the right term ,sucker more like it and that creats resentment!
I would very much like to ship my 1982 Chevrolet Celebrity with the optional 85hp 4.3L diesel V6 and 3-speed Turbo Hydramatic automatic because it's so valuable!
85hp out of a 4.3... wha
Wait didn't you just said that you bought a mini van last episode?
I had an 8.32, they sound amazing but not very quick. Lovely interiors, Jason is wrong even the regular Themas have a very well built interior, superior to E28/E34 5 Series in my opinion. I would argue the 164 was the most developed Type 4 over the original Croma rather than the Saab 9000. The 164 was the only one with unique doors and the suspension was different, the Saab had additional safety crap granted.
Was the Daihatsu Copen another Kei car?
Yes, Copen is also a kei car. A sporty kei coupe/convertible, but FWD. Modern though, so if you want a kei sports car but don't want a boxy Alto Works or Mugen-touched N-One, the Copen is a good choice. Too bad the S660 exist.
lol...2:10 i paid 2g in shipping for my 90 honda acty ha3 from san fran to indy. i bought the truck for 1k...unrego, sitting for 10 years in someone lot unused in japan, 4 speed 2wd base model. with dealer installed ac...WIN! HAHAHA!🤣 I got a mid engine honda truck that is better than a ridgeline! low bar i know.
Too bad in EU we don't have such Kei cars thing. It would fit well regarding the economy situation and you could still have fun with it. Also gap a market for young generations that they can get a sporty car without selling their own kidneys.
Careful with imposing limits based on need...that's why before Tesla no one wanted electric cars...because a golf cart is not a car, and early electric cars felt too much like big golf carts because they were trying to barely do what people needed, not wanted
I can't stand when VW people pronounce "Mk2" as "emm-kay two"
also holy fuck the suzuki every is my dream car what a stupid dorky looking piece of shit i love it
There's a video on Takashi Oi's channel (one of the old Best Motoring editors/hosts) driving a very modified Beat on a mini-circuit.
ua-cam.com/video/o0iGCkAC9u8/v-deo.html
Ship a Chevette!!! LOL!!!
46:20 Wow! Brilliant! I OWN BOTH
I WOULD rather drive my 09 2.5 jetta 5cly sportwagen over my wife's 2.0 Tiguan with its odd wheel spin then Traction control then wheel spin then Traction control then wheelspin...gas saving B.S.
The Busso video:
ua-cam.com/video/0fWyn-znDVY/v-deo.html
A 2.0L 9-cylinder: I'm picturing a W configuration with 3 rows of 3 that sounds like a V6 with a stutter.
If your job as an enthusiast is to pronounce things correctly, you should definitely start working on that « poo-joe ».
3rd tax is displacment
Take a sequoia on 35 in tires thru japan. Watch this ...
German cars. Japanese cars. German cars. Japanese cars. German cars. Japanese cars. German cars. Japanese cars.
Works well at 1.25x speed.
Jason... really... its mk2..mk1.. mk3.. as in mark 1.. mark 2 etc... only absolute news call vw em kay... shame on you
I'm pretty sure they were talking about how it should be written on an article... Not how to say it
No interest...Worst Episode Ever.
So help me god, if I hear one more ahole say "Chevy" and then say "don't say Porsch," Im gonna lose my shat. If you can nickname one brand you can nickname any brand. GET OVER THE PORSCH! Or only say chevrolet!
As someone who’s first car was a 01 VR6 Jetta, and really got into communities from that, it IS mkIV
But weirdly that’s the only VW/Honda/tangentially interested brand/generation following that scheme I’ve come acerías