Most Bizarre Dual Engine Failure Ever
Вставка
- Опубліковано 24 гру 2022
- You typically never hear about dual engine failures ending well because planes are designed to fly on one engine, this is audio from a dual engine failure where the pilot stays very calm.
Be Part of the 74 Crew:
IG: / 74gear
Twitter: / 74gear
Facebook: / 74gear
Flight Simulator Gear I use:
Yoke: geni.us/SimYoke
Computer: geni.us/GamingComputer
Flight Gear I use:
Aviation Headset: geni.us/AviationHeadset
Backpack: geni.us/PilotBackpack
Traveling headset: geni.us/DHheadset
Video Gear I use:
Camera: geni.us/VideoCamera
Action Camera: geni.us/Actioncamera
Flight Audio Connector: geni.us/FlightAudio
ND Filter: geni.us/NDFilter
I may receive a commission on some of these links but it will not change the price you pay for the items.
Of course he is calm, he is 007. He might be shaken, but not stirred.
That joke was so bad it broke the Geneva conevtion.
Legend man.
@@matsv201😂
good one 🤣🤣
😂
Controller: "You can descend at pilot's discretion..."
Pilot: "Negative. I'm descending at aircraft's discretion. Pay attention."
They pilot can speed up the descent at their discretion...
@@KimonFrousios laugh a little once in awhile ; )
@@dmatthews7423 - Hey, if we're going for gallows humor why hold back?
This happened over the Atlantic and the plane glided 75 miles from 35,000 to a safe landing at an airport on a small island...Air Transit Flight 236!!! Craziest story ever, I think it is more impressive than Sully on the Hudson.
Girl to salesman: "do you have transparent nail paint?"... Salesman: "sure, which color do you want?" ............ seems the same salesman later on decided to become ATC
The pilot is more calm flying the plane than I am just watching the video!
I bet there was a flood of emotions once he was stopped.
That's probably what saved his life.
Get real, you simply fly your plane. You make some plan, you go for it. What else? Nobody likes a pilot in panick, if it happens, everybody reassures him/her, it is a normal reaction: and now drop the nose, so push, and kick the rudder, stop the spinning, and pull up gently, you can do that. Great, you regained control, you did it. We'll debrief later. Well done! That is how pilot world is. Aware of what can happen, prepared for things that could go wrong, so the solution is available already,
As a retired ATC I witnessed a fellow controller get frustrated with a pilot when issuing a trafffic call of "12 o'clock and 4 miles..." and after repeating the traffic call with no resolution my frustrated colleague keyed the mike and said "I guess you have a digital watch, traffic is at your Tuesday position". I wish I had kept a recording of that. Funny stuff. Thanks Kelsey for you content.
Thanks for sharing your story. That one liner has to be remembered! 👍😂😂😂
I don't understand 'Tuesday position '.
@@KayAteChef instead of numbers on the clock face a digital watch might have days highlighted on the clock face
@@KayAteChef it is for peeps who are completely unfamiliar with analogue clocks nowadays… it is kind of a joke. 😃
digital watch --- funny !
"Meowing on guard" is a real 'phenomenon' that has been known to happen including during large military exercises, which I personally find hilarious
On the med' cruises, the radios would light up at night with all kinds of zany crap... From the "monkey guy" to animal sounds and arguments between ships and air craft in convoy, you never knew what you were liable to hear! ;o)
Can anyone pls explain what is going on with this meowing? I don't get what happened there.
@@JankoWalski-hz3lu from what I found around, just guard frequency things. Guard frequency should have proper uses, being silent for all the time except special cases like lost communications and all, or like the Chinese vessel contacting the US aircraft (which by mission, both would obviously be on different frequencies and wouldn't talk to each other), but it turns out guard is like the 4chan of the airspace and such stuff just happens.
@@Kalvinjj "Guard, uh, finds a way..."
Do I look like a cat to you, boy? You stop laughing right meow!
That pilot is calmer than I was when I drove during the first subzero day in Michigan 2 days ago. It takes a few times before people remember ice is slick and four wheel drive doesn't help stop on Ice.
Merry Christmas!
Glider pilot here.
I believe weight does not factor into glide range in the first order. Being heavier means you have more potential energy to play with and you are flying at a higher wing-loading. Best glide speed will be higher.
So all things being equal the heavier aircraft will be able to glide the same distance for a given altitude. And you will get there faster.
This is why we put water ballast into high performance gliders if the weather is strong.
Speaking from my experience and training. There may be other factors.
Based on quite a number of high profile engine-out incidents, it really seems as if having at least some glider experience in their resumé is something that would be handy for all major commercial pilots to have...? That really indepth understanding of aerodynamics & handling characteristics seems to add another super-effective tool to the toolkit if anythinv goes wrong!
I don't know what costs are like, though - is it something that would be prohibitively expensive when student pilots are also working on getting their GA hours up...?
@@anna_in_aotearoa3166
It surely won't hurt and also be a fun part of the curriculum.
I doubt, however, that a few hours in an aircraft built specifically for gliding really would make a difference when the day comes.
Here in Germany PPLers train power off landings (to a runway) as part of their syllabus. I think that may be more useful as it better reflects the situation.
A very different glide angle, maybe management and trouble-shooting of the dead engine, flaps, just a different beast.
Also: Any self-respecting and -preserving pilot should have a keen interest in aerodynamics. But that may just be me :-).
Man as a civilian my anxiety is high listening to this I can’t imagine being that calm he must have nerves of steel
Training, man. Training. Specifically, training that is as close to the real thing as possible, while also being as difficult and complicated as possible. There are a lot of people who think that kind of training just teaches people how to fail, but it ignores an old maxim--there are a thousand lessons in defeat, but only one in success. Failing in a simulator has far fewer consequences when compared to failing in real life would.
Plus things like Crew Resource Management help, too. That pilot was able to focus on flying and communicating while his co-pilot was running numbers to figure out their descent speed and flight time. It's a practice that I wish showed up in other fields, too, just because of how it goes a long way toward preventing mistakes in judgement.
@@nightrunnerxm393 he did the right communicate aviate and navigate the three things kelsey talks about
@@jamesgardner578 Those are the three important things but the order is essential. First aviate, then navigate, and only then communicate.
Sully steel nerves
@@nightrunnerxm393 Exactly
Merry Christmas, Kelsey, and crew! Thanks for giving us a great year of vlogs! No matter what the week gave to us we've all been able to come here and have our time with Kelsey, sharing our own stories and being a community. I hope you all enjoy your day and have a great week!
Merry Christmas
Merry Christmas!
I edited Kelsey’s last two vlogs, so much appreciated ! Merry Christmas !
@@ErwannKerroch84 And we’ve appreciated all the work that goes into this channel! Cheers
Merry Christmas to you! 🎄❤
Hello Kelsey. I'm actually from the area. This reverberated through multiple channels, including Fire Departments, since Mason Area Fire had to respond to the crash. Here's the breakdown on a lot of it.
Lansing is NOT a busy airport, even though it is in the Capital City of Michigan. They have approximately 10 scheduled commercial passenger flights, as well as some private flights, but their biggest volume of flights comes from a UPS sorting hub that brings in a lot of feeder flights and local trucks to fill 2 or 3 DC-10 sized aircraft.
The flight originated at Pontiac International Airport, the 2nd busiest airport in Michigan in terms of takeoffs/landings.
The plane, registered to Royal Air, is based out of Pontiac. They also have their maintenance hanger there, in the Northeast Corner of the airport. The plane had just underwent some maintenance.
The reason they gave them 3k feet, is in the direction they were traveling, there are several radio/TV towers in the area, including WLNS and WKAR MSU.
When landing, the plane ended up going approximately 20 feet off the runway.
Per sources who wish to remain anonymous (to prevent stepping on the NTSB/FAA's toes), says that the fuel was shut off from the tanks as you had described.
The aircraft is back in service, continuing to fly today.
When the controller gave them the instruction to maintain three thousand the pilot would not know why. They might guess that it was related to terrain or obstacles but they wouldn't know for sure. It would have helped if the controller had instead told them that 3,000 feet was the minimum safe altitude and explained that it was because of towers.
This aircraft was unable to maintain altitude and that information may have helped, including the height of the highest tower which I assume was far less than 3,000 feet.
Based on comments here from controllers it sounds to me like the 3,000 foot clearance was CYA for the controller. If the pilot hit something the controller could say I told him not to descend below 3,000 feet. I understand that, but it seems like for a plane that was not able to maintain altitude they could have provided more helpful information beyond the required CYA instruction.
@@StevePemberton2 emergency aircraft don't usually land at Lansing, or most aircraft as it is. They'd rather go to Grand Rapids or Pontiac.
@@tornadojames
I have no reason to doubt that an aircraft with mechanical problems would prefer to land at the airports that you mentioned. However in this situation with no engine power the top priority was survival, which is primarily based on distance to the airport, runway length and runway direction.
Emergency services would be another consideration, but not above the first criteria which is safely landing on a runway. The runway at Lansing is 8,500 feet which is why they initially attempted it, but being without power they could only reach Mason with its 4,000 foot runway, coming in fast and heavy they were not able to remain on the runway, but fortunately it all worked out okay.
Yup plane is still flying I see it every day. Funny he showed the aircraft 20WK when in reality the aircraft is N123RA.
Paragraph five is utter rubbish, we’re you the ATC Controller on watch that day?
Royal Air Co-Pilot: "Captain, looks like we've lost all power from both engines".
Royal Air Pilot: "Well mate, make sure that there's enough backup battery power to keep the tea hot until we land".
Really great to hear the pilots perspective on things like this, gives us regular people an insight into what goes on when something goes wrong
Can you Hire Me For Asset Manager
Although I had only a few 10s of hours in GA and not holding my PPL or Bronze certification yet, I was surprised quite how calm I was when, during a lesson, we realised we had lost a pitot line; no ASI, altimeter, and ROC indicator made for an interesting termination of our flight; I asked the PS to take over as he was considerably more familiar withe the aircraft than I was! Thankfully the aircraft (a Falke) is nicely behaved close to the stall and we were able to make a totally uneventful landing.
This happened over the Atlantic and the plane glided 75 miles from 35,000 to a safe landing at an airport on a small island...Air Transit Flight 236!!! Craziest story ever, I think it is more impressive than Sully on the Hudson.
I think this is your best episode yet Kelsey! I'm sure we'll hear more about the real cause of Air Royal 007's emergency - thanks for a snippet of the actual landing at the end!
Merry Christmas. Thank you for all of the great entertainment this past year.
Lots of room for you to land your 74 Gear at YLW and a good sushi bar not far from the airport - I'll buy!
Maintain 3,000? With NO ENGINES? Um... And I thought I was having a tough day assembling a toddler wooden kitchen toy! Merry Christmas!
TBH.. I reckon its a fair instruction from ATC. I aint an aviator of course.. but to me thats a command to keep flying the plane.. 👍🤝
@@TheScotsalan There was probably terrain, but the poor pilots are going to be losing altitude all the while! Not going to make landing any easier! :)
@@charlotteinnocent8752 Reckon there is always terrain 😳.. the ground. Anyhow, still dont think its a bad instruction from ATC.. it bought some time perhaps. I just feel, not sure why, that sort of instruction will focus the pilot on keeping the plane aloft. I totally expect to get ratioed here of course.. no prob 👍🤝
Merry Christmas, Kelsey. I hope Santa was good to you.
A nice treat to get a new video on the holiday! I wonder what the reaction of the US pilot was at the end after the meow. Laughing? Confusion?
Happy holidays to Kelsey and the team! And to the rest of the 74 Crew here as well. I’m a newer follower (but already completely in love) - thanks for giving me a new aviation nerd community to be a part of.
Merry Christmas and a Happy New year to everyone
Happy Christmas and a happy new year brother
Merry Christmas!🌲
I have flown all over the world in big and small planes as a passenger, and my "worst place to loose engines" I could imagine would be over a mountain range. For example, I have spent a lot of time in small planes in the mountains of the Patagonia. A plane crashed a few years back, 2 km from the end of a paved runway. It took 2 weeks to find the crash site, due to low clouds / rain and how dense the forest there was. It is essentially horseback or nothing access, as there are lots of small rivers. A friend did the salvage on the engines. They had to repel from a helicopter, to cut the engines off the wreck, that was hanging 100 feet in the trees off the deck. I had flown on that very plane, in the same area, about 3 months before with a different pilot.
Suggest u don't fly in these small planes again.
I think the worst place to lose your engines would be on the initial climb after departure
@@Jeremyhawaii808 Anywhere once the wheels leave the ground...
Were the engines tied?
@@Jeremyhawaii808 yea but there’s a chance depending on airport that you still have somewhere flat to land
Over a mountain range you’re boned
For those who are wondering about a few things… Kelsey this applies to you.
First of all I’m a retired center controller from that area, and am also somewhat familiar with the events.
First of all the pilot in the previous freq. requested the specific runway at LAN. As a controller we might suggest other runways or airports, but most won’t unless asked as we don’t wish to confuse the situation.
Now as to the maintain 3k clearance, all I can say is that the controller is limited on what he can say. At the time 007 called in he was well above the min. Safe altitude for that sector. The controller could not give him a clearance below that altitude even under these circumstances. I, myself wouldn’t have said it quit like that though I would have said something more like “ minimum safe altitude (MSA) in your area is 3k. Altitude is your discretion.” In the Sully case this was not an issue as when the initial call came the plane was already descending below the MSA and the controller knew enough not to say anything. Although I’m pretty sure if things hadn’t worked out the way they did he would have been called out by the FAA for not giving him the MSA.
I’m a retired military controller. I agree with you regarding the altitude. I too would have given him the MSA altitude.
Yeah I figure it was probably something like that, but yeah I would have thought phrasing it as the MSA or instrucing them to maintain visual separation from terrain bellow 3,000 would have been more useful. After all that is basically the issue there that the controller doesn't know where the obstacles on the ground are and can't provide guidance to avoid them if the plane goes bellow that.
I'm sure that they are required to specify it. I think Kelsey's point was the wording, giving them an instruction that they already knew they couldn't literally comply with. And it seemed to be worded as a clearance not an advisory. This pilot presumably understood that there was a reason why they were being given minimum altitude, as other statements from the controller had made clear that the controller understood that they had no power. But Kelsey tends to comment on these things not necessarily that that he would not understand it, just pointing out that some pilots may potentially be confused by what seems to be a non sequitur instruction. Your wording sounds more fitting for the situation and would be more clear to any pilot in that situation, including single engine private pilots.
As for the MSA I'm sure that it must have built in margins. Wouldn't it help the pilot to be informed what the obstacle is, building, terrain, antenna and also be told the exact altitude of what they need to avoid? I'm not saying they necessarily needed to offer that information beyond informing of the 3,000 foot MSA, but hopefully they have that information handy if the pilot states they may not be able to stay above 3,000 feet, then the controller can inform them about what it is that they need to avoid and where it is and the actual altitude.
@@StevePemberton2 The controller may not necessarily know what the highest obstacle in the sector actually is nor exactly where in the sector it is. They are not required to know that they only need to know the boundaries of each sector and the MSA within each. Also even if they did it may not help much there may be other obstacles of different types within the sector that are only slightly bellow the highest one so you could accidently give them a false sense of security if you tell them to look out for a mountain when they are heading for an AM radio tower in a different part of the sector or something.
@@seraphina985 we are not fully aware of the exact situation at t(at moment. Not included in this tape is other aircraft, other controllers etc. also experience level comes into this as well. While his life wasn’t on the line in that moment we have no clear indication as to the complexity and stress level he had beyond this video and he may have had 10 other people, controllers, pilots, and supervisors all demanding his attention. This could cause him to revert to basic programming for safety. We also don’t know his experience level, as I said, this may have been his first emergency and no matter how much training the first is always stressful.
Happy Holidays Kelsey - thank you for taking us all with you and here’s to your million subscribers in 2023! ❤
Happy Holidays Kelsey. Thank you for this video and all the others you produced for us this past year. I always enjoy your take on things. Keep your blue side up at all times 😊👍🎄
I've watched a large majority of your videos this one has the best maps and visuals I've seen. Thanks!
Merry Christmas, Kelsey and all!
I always love these videos Kelsey, it’s good to get an insight into the real life of an airline pilot and the relationship between ATC and pilots must be unique as you don’t get that anywhere else. You seem to take life as it comes and have a real sense of humour. That was one cool pilot with no engines! He sounded like this was just another routine day at work.
I was once a passenger in a light aircraft years ago, and the pilot and I were having a yarn about the area we were flying over. Suddenly, the single engine began to sputter and die. The pilot had a look at the gauges and then reached over and changed the tank. That was a bit trippy for a second...
Merry Christmas Kelsey. I totally love your channel and because of you I am less fearful when I have to fly.
Final choice of airports was excellent! There's an A&P school on the field.
The crew did an incredible job.The airplane was essentially undamaged.
Any time you can reuse...
What's A&P?
@@eekee6034 airframe and powerplant
@@googaagoogaa12345678 Oh I see :)
way more than a school for a&p techs i would rsther have an shop of experienced a&p techs 🤷♂️
Props to the bump in editing quality in the video! 👍
Nice breakdown of the timeline. Great flying under pressure.
Merry Christmas Kelsey and thanks for all the great videos, much appreciated.
For the record, Kelsey, the clearance is probably because, looking at my EC-1 Terminal Procedures PDF, the initial approach fix and glideslope intercept altitude on the KLAN 28L RNAV/GPS approach is 3000 feet. It also keeps them at a safe altitude if they know not to get below 3000 until they've got the runway made, because according to my Detroit sectional, the maximum obstruction height in that area is 2100 feet, so 3000 gives a decent buffer above that. Can they maintain 3000? No, but it does give them a good reference height for their pilot's-discretion descent so they don't shed too much altitude too quickly and encounter an antenna or something.
Thank you sir.
Well said and relayed!
Merry christmas Kelsey I'm surprised you uploaded on christmas and we thank you very much for keeping us entertained have a merry christmas and a happy new year
You can schedule videos in advance to automatically "upload" (really, publically publish them). No need to work over Christmas.
Happy Christmas, Kelsey. Thank you for the upload! I can’t wait to see you cross the 1M line! You’re so close! Any special plans for when that happens?? And yes, I agree. Cool callsign!
I'm never ever disappointed watching your videos, Kelsey. Informational and entertaining. "Blue side up" always gets me! Coordinated flight is much better than uncoordinated. =)
So excited to see another video from you!
I spewed out my drink when I heard that “clearance” from ATC. In my younger jet days in the Air Force I was flying a single engine jet that had engine troubles and while I had some power I couldn’t maintain level flight. At ten miles I was switched to tower and told I was number two to an Aurora (P3 Orion with 4 engines) with ONE engine out. I was dumbfounded. An Aurora can fly all day on three engines. Before I could plead my case to the Tower the Aurora flight deck told tower they would take number two to let me land as they had been monitoring the conversation when we were on terminal. The Aurora pilot then asked asked me directly to try and make one of the turn offs so he didn’t have to divert to the alternate. (The airfield I was landing at had only one runway big enough to for the Aurora.) I made the forced landing pattern and as I passed low key I cut the fuel valve off and glided the last 1/2 mile to the runway and made the second high speed cut off.
The P-3 would shut down an engine after burning off some amount of fuel to increase endurance. However, I think they would restart it prior to landing.
@@oscarb9139 - Yes you are correct. And I talked to the crew afterwards and they had shut it down for their patrol but it failed to start when it was time to come back for their approach.
@@XLC-zd8dn I work with a number of former P-3 pilots, as well as most every other military airframe. Lots of cool stories.
@@XLC-zd8dn What aircraft type were you in?
@@oscarb9139 - An old T-33 RCAF. We kept them around as support aircraft and EW trg until the 90’s
Another great video. Thanks Kelsey ! Merry Christmas and best to You and Yours.
Merry Christmas Kelsey. Happy New Year! Thanks for all your great videos!
Merry Christmas, Kelsey. There are some really great jet-turned-glider stories out there, the Air Transat 236 and the Gimli Glider top of mind, but since you included that interaction with the Chinese military at the end, I would truly enjoy a recap of the Hainan Island incident from 2001.
I like that the pilot of the Air Transat one used to fly drug runs
@@MsJubjubbird Robert piche.
Was working the ramp in LAN for NWA on Thanksgiving Eve, 2004. Freak snowstorm, DC-9 went off the end about 50 yards. All ok, but sure messed up the rest of the night. The aircraft sunk in the soft ground, and we had to get on our knees to open the cargo doors. ✈️
Thanks for the video, keep it up Kelsey!
It's so awesome you breakdown down these videos. Otherwise, most of us would be clueless! Your awesome keep them coming!
Merry Christmas Kelsey, hope the 747s are doing well!
When my dad was training for his IFR rating his CFII told him, "In IMC, don't trust the seat of your pants. The seat of your pants is a lying ass. Trust your instruments."
Makes complete sense. You could be in a turn that feels like a climb.
@@TonyRule Or an acceleration that feels like a pitch up. The US Navy realized this was a problem after some planes pitched forward down into the sea almost at once. They realized the pilots were trying to correct a feeling of pitch up. So now pilots ride the catapult thrust with hands off the controls, Taking control only after the thrust is complete.
Fantastic video!!!! Thank you for explaining things. And wow, the tension that goes on between countries is very intense!!! That cat did end this all pretty nicely! 😃
HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!!❄🎉
My Christmas morning is now complete, thanks for posting, and have a great day!
JESUS: Mom, where do babies come from?
JOSEPH: Yea Mary, where DO babies come from?!?
MARY: CHRISTMAS
Lol
"It seems the US regional pilots, they've made their way all the way out to Asia." Had me cracking up!
Like how the US Coast Guard made its way all out to the Persian Gulf. The USA's coastline is even bigger than I thought.
Thanks for all the videos Kelsey & Merry Christmas!
Love your videos big man, all the way from 🇮🇪 keep the good work up👌
3:30: "And if you are very heavy you may not be able to make it those 15 miles to glide out there". The gliding distance doesn't change with mass. Only the airspeed along the descend path increases with mass.
So, big mass, fast sinking, not be able to get to the airport then?
Bond, James Bond: He can do anything. If he has to, he can maintain 3,000 with no engines.
Merry Christmas! Thanks for your great videos.
Merry Christmas Kelsey! Thanks for everything you do for us! 🎄
🤣😂🤣😂
I'll try to TL;DR this. My step dad was selected (he was always the top grade throughout his career) to medevac a preemie from the Northern most tip of the Japanese islands where we had a listening station monitoring Soviet transmissions. He was flying a C-118 (MATS) and hand picked the crew for his co-pilot and flight engineer. They had a 3700 foot runway on a grade to get into and out of. Hearing him tell the story he spent a very long time in the TOLD cards.
He briefed the engineer that he was dropping it right on the edge of the pavement and was going to call "full reverse" and he needed to hear that or "abort" from his engineer. They got her stopped and then had to back down the runway to stage.
He then told the flight engineer that he was going to throttle up and stand on the brakes and then call for "full power, wet". He then told them, "I'm going to the end of the runway and pull. Hopefully she'll fly." They did it and the baby survived and grew up. Now that's not a 747 trying to stop in the same distance but Kelsey's talking about it reminded me of that account.
Wow, that's a hell of a mission. Respect to your dad and his crew for correctly estimating the situation, planning properly, and getting everyone out safely.
Tldr
@@gayjoebiden "Too Long, Didn't Read" which is supposed to be a summary of the topic. Obviously I failed. 😂
Kelsey - Merry Christmas - I fly light sport / ultralights. My weight shift trike flys at 38 mph. If I lost the engine anywhere near the field, I can just swing over and land to a full stop in 200 feet. I can land and take off 4 times easy on a 4k foot runway. Big difference between heavy, fast planes and little slow light weight planes.
A few years ago I was taking lessons in an LSA, an Ekolot Topaz. Even on a relatively short runway at a little regional airfield, most of my engine-out-during-takeoff plan was just "come back down onto the runway" - by the time we cleared the runway, we'd already be a good few hundred feet up. Absolute joy to fly, that plane.
And mind you, that was a 1000lb plane with a 100hp engine. You're totally right, a good little LSA gives you so many more options.
Ur channel is great. I don’t watch everyday, but I’m a subscriber and sometimes go on a 74gear binge.
I clicked on the video, an ad on and asked me, “So, you want to be a pilot?” -Woah, slow down there chief.
Why did the atc tell him maintain 3000 with no engines? The first thing that hit me, Kelsey called it out fast.
Merry Christmas to Kelsey and my 74 buddies in the comments.
ATC > Physics
Can't crash land if you don't have clearance for it 😁
That controller is probably saying "maintain 3000" dozens of times a day every day, I suppose it just slipped.
probably habit. He might not have delegation below three thousand
There is a minimum high for each area to be clear of any obstacles. If he don't he had to be clear the the pilot are aware of any obstacles and visually see then. You don't see power-lines from the air you only see the supporting structures and sometimes it's misleading where the wires are.
It might be a slip, but ATC isn't supposed to add confusing input to an ongoing emergency
Ever since that Chinese navy video, flying around stateside you will occasionally hear random meows on guard. Still makes me giggle.
Ever since the movie came out. It’s been going on for awhile.
Awesome as always Kelsey! All the best from Vancouver Island 🇨🇦
always great contend with so much interesting insights and then even presented in an absolute professional and sympathetic way - thank you so much! I enjoy every video!
Cool? This is 007!
Merry Christmas Kelsey and fellow commenters. 👍
Love the videos. How about a video about how “real” simulators are.
Merry Christmas Kelsey! 🎅. Keep up the great work.
I’m so glad you still uploaded a video today, I wasn’t sure if you would with it being Christmas. I’m stuck at home alone ill so this was much needed! Merry Christmas!
Scheduling of videos means most of the people I sub to have posted over Xmas because they can upload it days before (or weeks) and set it to launch at any given time. It's a win-win solution for everyone.
@@JustAnotherBuckyLover yea I know, I run a couple of UA-cam accounts myself as a job, I was just acknowledging that it was nice to still have a video go live as a lot of people I follow skip Christmas.
@@ashleighsteaparty268 That sucks. Pretty much all of the creators that I follow have kept up a normal posting schedule, but I guess it just depends.
I just began studying the Cessna 310r (twin) which has an unusual procedure for the switching main tanks (wing tips!) to the aux tanks. So, hearing about the feeder tank possibility makes me want to study even more carefully! Fortunately, I fly in MSFS2020 only. If I crash, I just go make a ham sandwich.
my guess about the "above 3000 feet" is that there was an obstruction involved and that was why the pilots decided to go for the closer airport.
They're losing altitude, so your guess sounds good to me they knew they'f be below it.
I would think the controller would have advised them about an obstacle to watch out for, rather than just vaguely telling a pilot with no power to maintain 3,000 feet. I think Kelsey's explanation is more likely, 3,000 feet is probably the standard pattern there and the controller probably just said it out of habit.
Oh my!!! I would panic for sure! Merry Christmas Kelsey!!
Happy Xmas, and thanks for all your videos
Me asking my flight attendant,
"Excuse me but how far will the plane make it with these engines out?"
*The flight attendant*
"All the way to the scene of the accident"
Didn't know Ron was a flight attendant between shows.
Never ever give up altitude with no engines until you are very close to landing.
Except as part of your energy management, of course. Really not good to come in super hot, when you don't have the option of a go-around.
How is that possible anyway? As soon as you lose thrust, you will begin to lose altitude, unless in a glider on a thermal updraft.
@@hoghogwild more precisely, never give up energy unnecessarily when you don't have working engines to give you more energy. You can trade energy back and forth between speed and altitude, you can deliberately dump energy (within limits), and ultimately you need to touch down with almost no energy left.
The most extreme energy management I've seen was an old-school aerobatic pilot: turned his engine off, did a few aerobatic manoeuvres, and then landed pretty much immediately. Knew exactly what he was doing, and also he knew how to maintain a safety margin.
Happy Christmas Kelsey, have a fabulous and successful new year. Enjoy all videos you post, never miss any, all are very educational and fascinating. 👍✈️👩✈️🛫
As ATC, just as with you pilots, it's important to keep things as standard and normal as possible, especially in emergency situations. That's probably why he kept giving "normal" instructions.
Yeah, standard emergency procedures, not trying to apply standard procedures to emergencies. That's just confusing and frustrating
@@alakani The whole point of emergencies is that they're non-standard. Thus, you can't really have any "standard" emergency procedures. You have to deal with the situation you're dealt with the way you're dealt it. We're animals of habit, and we do the best when in a situation we're used to. Thus, doing things as you're used to doing them, would lead to the best outcomes.
@@Henoik Sir I know you have a multi engine fire but that is no excuse to cut in line. Please go around or get a pen and paper to write down a number:p
@@alakani You need to understand that during an emergency, a controller's instructions more become "advise" than anything. We understand that pilots may be unable to carry out an instruction, even during normal operations. There is just so much we can do as controllers. If you bust the 3000 feet because you cannot maintain that altitude for whatever reason, then that is fair enough, but we cannot give a clearance that doesn't ensure separation from terrain or other traffic - even during emergency situations. The PIC needs to do what he needs to do, and we do whatever we can to make free room for you. Yes, it sounds weird to ask a pilot without engines to maintain an altitude, but "sounding weird" has never hurt anyone. Improvisation, however, has.
@@Henoik Luckily this was a very experienced pilot. I can only imagine how that kind of advice might have gone over with the student with an incapacitated instructor. Thankfully it's usually much more of a team effort in emergencies than this, and the student landed safely thanks almost entirely to a wonderful controller
Cleared to 3000 is because that’s the lowest altitude he has control over. It may be bottom of his block with a different agency below, or it may be minimum vector altitude for the sector due to terrain. In either case the controller cannot provide a lower clearance. Doesn’t mean the plane can’t go lower, just means it’s out of this controllers airspace if it does
I mean, this was a mayday situation, so all clearances were pretty much off the table?
Cleared to 3000'is one thing, maintain 3000' is completely different
dude! keep up the good work, really enjoy what you are doing.
I don't know about Kelsey but my voice under stress will go up a few octives. Merry Christmas and happy new year!
Yes, I would much rather lose both engines elsewhere.
On the ground seems like a good spot.
I can't help but grin at the callsign "007".
Baller call sign! Perfect for the pilot's James Bond demeanor. Happy Holidays, 74 Gear team!
I was laughing too when they told him to maintain 3K. 😅 I’m surprised they didn’t tell him to meet a crossing restriction 😅 Assuming an emergency has been declared, they can pretty much bust that 3K without sanctions.
I agree, they can bust that all day long if they declared an emergency.
Probably doesn’t matter in Michigan but they may have had terrain or obstacles they wanted to tell the pilots about with that clearance.
@@stevenbeach748 There's a number of transmitter towers reaching up to 2100 in that particular area. 3000 is also the initial approach/glideslope intercept altitude for the GPS approach to that particular runway, so habit may have been involved, too.
Kelsey, potential small correction to your video (at least as a paraglider pilot): the weight of the aircraft shouldn't affect the glide ratio. By being heavier you lose altitude faster, but you have a higher airspeed that counters that (e.g. you sink more per second, but you also go further per second). In still air, you'd end up at the same spot regardless of weight.
If anything, since being heavy increases the airspeed of the glider, you'll have better groundspeed if you're in a strong headwind, and thus can reach a target more easily. Being too light would have the opposite effect - not being able to maintain a sufficient ground speed and thus not making it all the way to your target.
Is there anything about powered aircraft that would make things different?
Thank you and Happy Holidays!
Always enjoy this content thanks.
Awesome video! Happy holidays!
There was a Learjet out of Gainesville that lost both engines due to DEF contamination.
There have been at least 3 cases of DEF contamination, in all 3 the DEF froze up at altitude, blocking the fuel lines, and flaming out one or more engines. Fortunately in all 3 cases the aircraft landed safely.
Wow! How does DEF get into jet fuel?
No oversight on the private side and overworked rampers with no support is a recipe for disaster. Forget about customer service, who is doing QC?
Double check your fuel loads and sump your tanks.
@@trigonzobob They were putting a dewatering fluid (like Prist) in the tanks and used an empty DEF jug. Jet A can tolerate ZERO DEF.
@@richardshippful Why would there even be DEF in the same stores as the aircraft materials? Aircraft parts/materials are meant to be stored seperately from commercial items.
Did this occur at a smaller airport where ramp workers service ground equipement or is DEF used in some smaller aircraft?
Maintain 3000 is probably just an automatic reaction by the controller, and it may be all the air space he controls. Below 3000 he may not be able to clear him, meaning he'd have to maintain visual separation from other aircraft.
Under a mayday, clearance should be "anybody with at least one functioning engine stay the hell out of the way of the emergency aircraft."
I think tthat the maintain 3000 was because of thats the height of the largest obstacle in the area.
@Joe Bramblett yeah, but maybe they'd have to call another ATC to make that call for them.
@@spartaleonidas7132 then that would be the absolute worst place to send a plane that can't even maintain altitude, much less climb.
@@kd5nrhThe minimum clearance is often a single piece of object like a cell tower. This may have been the towers best location that they can give him. I wouldn't look too deep into the phrasing of the towers responses - they know a plane without any engines really can't climb. Under a mayday call, the pilot can do whatever he needs to keep his plain in the air without towers authority. He may have to answer questions, but he was going to do that anyways.
Another Great video!! Merry Christmas 🎄
Merry Christmas Kelsey!! Hope you have an amazing one
I'm trying get up the courage to fly to Hawaii, but I think my flying days are behind me. Nevertheless, your videos have given me confidence in the pilots and aircraft.
I don't fly, but I watch Kelsey and Mentour Pilot, but between them, if I had to fly, I would feel much better.
I flew to Hawaii multiple times, long flight but I'm still alive... Just do it and enjoy
I hope you can overcome your fear and do it. I really want to go to Hawaii too! Maybe next year!
I believe the HI airlines have never had a crash. Look into it and book a flight! Piece of cake! Hawaii has good karma. You're good to go.
@@eyesea123 remember the one where the top of plane came off?
wouldn't the feeders being cut off cause a Christmas-tree of alarms in the cockpit (or your ECAM display)?
if not, why??? seems really at odds with the safety culture we usually see
I'm also surprised there were no interlocks to prevent all feeders from being closed at once.
Happy Christmas!! Love Ya Man!!!
Incredible video and incredible crew. As a C5 guy I can definitely tell ya I have had the opportunity to hear the “US military aircraft conductions ops in national airspace” a few times, to very angry controllers, lol.
Hello random people, Merry Christmas :D
Hey Kelsy, have you ever done a movies vs reality that covers that plane flight of Indiana Jones and his father as they escaped the Nazis in Indiana Jones The Last Crusade? Would be a fun one! Lots of scenes to roast I'm sure
bro your editing is top notch 👌 the graphic while you be elaboratin n stuff, top notch!!
Kelsey, the plane is the Royal 007, the dude is ice cold even when having lost both his engines and the controller knows he can maintain 3000 feet even without engines.
It's James Bond.
If a 747 were forced to land on a runway like Mason would you have enough distance to take off?
There’s are several models of the Dassault Falcon, but they do appear to be able to take off from a 4,000’ runway. But your point is well taken, and I don’t know. I’m guessing an aircraft like this would have to have its wings removed, then trailered to a bigger airport.
@@pulpmysteryfan I presume he's talking about Kelsey's 74.
@@wessexdruid7598 correct
Probably not. If the plane is intact they might try to strip all of it’s interiors like the passenger seats, the overhead baggage container… etc to loose a lot of weight. Then using a specially trained pilot, they can try do short jump take-off with as little fuel as possible but enough to reach that bigger airport for refuel before heading towards the main maintenance hub.
What's the takeoff distance of your 747? If you had to emergency land on a 4000' runway would you be able to take off again or how would you get the plane out of there?
It would become a museum where it stopped
@@1972challenger maybe not, it depends. They could climb onto ground effect assuming there aren’t obstacle’s ahead, or they could tear the inside apart and take out a lot of weight like the USAF did with the C-17s. Those jets are worth tens to hundreds of millions depending of the variant, the operator will not abandon it without a fight to retrieve it first.
@Jesus Antonio come to think of it maybe it would be cheaper to buy the houses in the way, bulldoze them and grade out a runway to get that bird back in the air
@@1972challenger that’s the scorched earth policy 😂. It’d be a few homes at 500k each for a 100m dollar jet. It’d be hard to convince people to sell, and if you push too hard it’d be bad PR. That’d be tricky.
You would get a test pilot with large aeroplane performance qualification to negotiate with the FAA and agree the maximum weights and the minimum thrust required for the take off. Wind, atmospheric pressure, temperature and runway condition and extensions can be waited for.
Great video as usual. Merry Christmas.
The first time I heard two people fresh to the US speaking Chinese was at college. I thought they were about to brawl until I got close enough to see the pleasant expressions on their faces. I thought that was where that last clip was going.
Around 2004 I was taking a Jetblue flight from NYC to SFO. Right as we were crossing the Rocky's the pilot told us that the fuel had been miscalculated and we had to divert to SLC to fuel. It was snowing hard with wind. Got into SFO late so missed my connecting to BUR and had to sleep in airport. The year before on Jetblue after we took off from JFK for LAX we had to land at some airport in New Jersey because the aircraft was loaded incorrectly and was unbalanced. We had to dump fuel and land. Well, the pilot had to scrounge for credit cards to get enough fuel as Jetblue had no arrangement for fueling at that airport. I've never had luck with that airline.
How far did they go? Do you mean asking passengers for their cards?
@@larrythompson8630 yes asking passengers for their cards.
@@protonneutron9046 I would want a decent return for that. Reimbursement, plus 4 round trips at least.
@@larrythompson8630 for sure!
Any idea how thick the concrete would have to be to support a 747 compared to the thickness of the smaller local airports? I’d think there’s no way it could land without buckling.
Merry Christmas Kelsey!
We had 747s land at our base. The runway was four feet think in the landing zones. Thinner in the middle of the runway, where the aircraft don’t land on.
@@robertheinkel6225 . In relation to major airports like Chicago to county airports at the other end where does yours fall? I’ve been thinking if given the runway can’t support the weight of a heavy class plane maybe it’s why the schematic isn’t included in his list of airports?
@@kevinstonerock3158 Note that heavy is a designation that refers to wake turbulence, and applies to any aircraft with maximum takeoff weight greater than 300,000 lbs, which includes some airplanes that we might not think of as heavy such as the 767 and 787. In fact the 757 is under the weight limit but is considered a heavy because of its tendency to produce strong wake turbulence.
As for weight on the runway, the number of wheels helps to spread things out somewhat. Here is a general idea of what the weight per wheel is for some airplanes. Weight per square inch of tire would be more precise but I don't have that.
Type Weight (lbs) Wheels lbs/wheel
Airbus A380 1,267,700 22 57,600
Boeing 787-9 560,000 10 56,000
Airbus A330-900 553,400 10 55,300
Boeing 747-8 978,000 18 54,300
Airbus A350-1000 679,000 14 48,500
Boeing 777-300 660,000 14 47,100
Boeing 767-400ER 449,700 10 45,000
Boeing 737-900 187,400 6 31,200
Airbus A321 183,000 6 30,500
@@StevePemberton2 . Well I knew about the designation by weight but wasn’t aware of the designation by wake turbulence. Thanks for the info. The chart will come in handy in order to compare between them. Thanks again. Merry Christmas!