Metal Planer Restoration 61: Machining a Flat Belt Pulley for the Mechanical Oiler
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- Опубліковано 1 жов 2024
- Metal Planer Restoration 61: Machining a Flat Belt Pulley for the Mechanical Oiler
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Looks like the planer passed its cat scan...
This is a real cliffhanger...Keith Rucker knows how to keep us in suspense
Chips will be flying soon!
Thanks for sharing Keith,
Cheers
Another step closer! Fantastic! Thanks Keith.
Ginger says that the project looks purrfect.
final CAT scan complete..
I still wonder why so many ops to make a pully? That could have been all done in 2?. last part face the back side..
Hope Ginger doesn't get too comfortable around that machine.
That would be a 1st, and a great viral video though... "Table pushes cat off itself"
3:55 Looking at the scale of things, I'd say that the bar is supporting the tailstock centre rather than it being supported by the tailstock itself !
I know you know what you're doing, but I still have to mention that they use crowned pulleys for flat belts for a reason. The shape of the pulley acts to self-center the flat belt. Hopefully this design doesn't cause any issues are premature belt wear.
Yeah, I thought a crowned pulley would be the correct option.
Crowned pulleys only work if the belt width to thickness meets a particular ratio (which I've forgotten). On a narrow belt under about 1.5 inches width, the belt thickness is usually too high to meet the appropriate ratio, and the belt is too stiff to track a crown reliably. They did use flanged pulleys for narrow belts. Very often on light loads like this they would have used a round belt, and the pulleys would have looked like V belt pulleys, except have a rounded bottom profile.
@@lwilton this is the kind of information I like to hear. Why my assumption is wrong and what was done about it. Thank you.
@@lwilton Thanks. I like your information but it is not accurate ! I totally agree with what you say but that ratio is material dependent and I'd guess the ratio you're aware of relates to leather belts. More pliable belts will more readily follow a crown.
I suspect it's some very interesting physics of which I know little other than personal experience of rolling things as a kid like draughts. While many things that roll, when they lean to the left, they turn to the left - but wider things like draughts, when they lean to the left, they turn to the right !
@@millomweb Thanks for the reply! I have to say I simplified a bit. Yes, the ratio I don't remember is for leather belts since that is almost certainly what Keith will be using. But I knew that it was material dependent.
If you want to know just about all there is to be known about leather belts, crowned pulleys, horsepower vs width vs feet per minute, adhesion vs surface texture, etc etc etc, you can do some searches in Google Books for "flat belts" and "line shafts" and the like. I did that a few years ago and discovered entire books (several of them) on the subject published in the late 1800s and early 1900s, as well as the proceedings of conventions of some professional organization that was dedicated to people that designed shop and conveyor power systems with belts.
I will say that I know nothing of draughts; I'll have to look that up. I had always assumed that was another word for darts, obviously I'm wrong. I'm guessing you are English? I don't recall any child's toy or game of that name from when I was growing up in the US.
That was surely fun. I can't wait to see some belts on this beast. Thanks for the video. It's appreciated.
Every shop needs a cat. Wish you well.
Not mine! I'm allergic. ;)
But the converse is not true; every cat does not need a shop. 🤣
Hi Kieth chances are that the belt will try to climb the walls of the pulley, all you need is a crown to keep the belt centered like the rest of the pulleys.
I think only one of the two pulleys need be crowned for centering. Hopefully, the other pulley is crowned, I am hoping to see the operation.
If Keith makes that one flat as well, then the belt will definitely climb those walls, leading to premature wear.
My thoughts as well, a crowned pulley seems like it would be the simplest and most elegant solution, self-centering, less wear, and period correct.
@@WhatAboutTheBee it looks like the drive pulley is flat, I don't think another flat pulley will work
@@richb419 Correct. The pulley Keith turned is this video is definitely not crowned.
Thanks Kieth. A request please. When you show us your sketches please use a darker pencil or marker and on plain paper so we can see it.
And a comment. I notice that many producers of videos put material in the machine with the colour coded end sticking out to be machined off. The next time they go to the stock bin out comes a piece of "durbar" only to be exposed as HRS. Wouldn't it make sense to use the cut end and leave the colour coded end available for identification later?
Regards from Canada's banana belt.🤞🇨🇦👍
One step closer to the finish. All your viewers are looking forward to seeing this run. And seeing a smile on your face as you make the first chip…
Keith, Why no Woodruff key? Won't the pulley slip on the shaft?
maybe you should convexed that flat pulley Keith----flat belts always ride to the highest point
Keith....I buy most of my metal supplies from Alro, but my particular outlet does not carry any cast iron, do you have a supplier for Durabar and like cast iron products...??
18:30 YES, Keith is human after all!
Thanks for also showing the things that go wrong, most would have cut that bit out.
Nah it was a weak bit!
@@samrodian919 At around 17:00 when he moved the tool back to the right you could see it snagging on something and shortly glowing red. looked like he may have chipped the insert there without noticing.
2:00 It would be helpful if you could draw your plans on the backside of the page. The printing on the page is distracting, especially that watermark logo in the middle of the page. Of course, that's assuming that the back of the page is blank.
Good morning Keith
How do they get Durabar to have such a bright, shiny finish? All the cast iron (ductile or grey) I've ever machined finished to a matte grey colour.
Just asking because I don't know. Why is it in each video, that lathe seems like it is cutting more and more on the return after a cut?
It's because of the tool deflection. Any time you take a cut, whether you're turning, facing, boring etc. the tool and / or tool post is deflecting very small amounts under the pressure of the cut. So you're never taking the true depth of cut the handwheel says. This is why most of the time when going for your final dimension you want to take a "spring pass". Which is where you go back to the start of your cut and take a final cut at the same depth as your last one. You'll notice that even though you didn't adjust the tool at all, it will still remove a small amount of material. This will ensure you get the depth of cut you were actually shooting for. A spring pass isn't necessary on roughing passes since more material is just going to have to come off anyway.
@@protospace270 You can actually see the whole assembly deflecting when he breaks the last corner around 21:15. That tool post is getting pretty tired.
Ginger is tough supervisor beautiful work beautiful animals you have
Looking good. Belts can be aggravating but I'm sure you'll get it sorted out.
Be honest Keith.. nothing is a critical measurement for you .. :)
Shop furman at the start and inspectpurr at the end.
Not long before the chips start flying.
Yay, back on the shaper,
Thank you for sharing. Very much enjoyed.
That looks good.
I kinda wonder if a round belt might have been more like what would have been used on something that small and low-load. They made leather belts that were a round profile with the ends stapled with a hog ring to make a continuous belt. The pulleys looked somewhat like V belt pulleys with a rounded profile in the bottom where the belt rode. At a guess something like a half inch diameter belt might have been used.
sounds like what those old singer sewing machine tables with the treadle to power the machine used.
good job
great stuff! Hail to the Bride and Groom!!
That machine is going to be neat to watch work, I have not seen one since I was a little kid and knowing that you may be using one of my Grandfathers and uncles tool holders will be cool.
Keith enjoys working on his planer. It's a shame he can't work on it so much 😉
Nice job Keith. at 4:45, I agree, that isn't Durabar! This is coming together nicely!
That machine of yours is really shaping up nicely, Keith. (Feel free to groan or chuckle, I'm satisfied either way)
Hiya Keith
Nice job. Well done Kieth. 👍👍👍
nice looking golden you have there
Mr Rcker .
did Ginger approve your work?
Hi, Nice machine and a great video.
Wonder if you considered simply a pair of crowned pulleys?
Does the cat scan cost extra?
Our cat looks exactly like yours.
Thank you for another video, sir.
0:55 Elliot approves the job! :-)
Great work on the pulley. I am eager to see that machine making some chips.
Can’t wait to see her running
Nice. Thanks Keith.
I noticed you don't use any kind of oil when drilling holes. Would there be a benefit to doing so? Extend the life of the bit maybe?
Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks Keith.
Looking good. Very good!
When Keith puts things in his DRO it is off camera. I keep thinking he is making popcorn or something in the microwave... Thank you for the videos and detail you explain.
25:11 Keith, I thought you were restoring a vintage metal planer and not a vintage Cat-Scan! But seriously, thanks for posting, good job.
In the last few projects I have been wondering what the significance of the grey parallel lines were in your designs. Doh! Would be nice to see an inset with your DRO. Another camera, or a direct video feed from the processor? Easy, right?
That's a nice sharp drill at 11:20, You could tell it was super sharp and (probably) going to cut so well the moment it touched the work and started to cut away that pushed up burr from the previous drill.
I was wondering what the difference is between various band saws. like your bike one and then there's abom79 with coolant and the miter table saw metal devil. each must have it own use and plus and minuses could you cover this in one of your videos and thanks
Excellent video
How many tool bits and holders do you have around your shop that will work in this planar. I would assume they would be different geometries than lathe bits.
Thank you for another awesome video, Keith! But I have to say, you sound tired and frustrated. I hope you manage to find some relaxing time this weekend to unwind.
Shop cat is the real hero!
What an incredible job you are doing on this machine. It is wonderful.
Ginger approved things, but who was the supervisor checking out your work in the first minute or so? Would it be possible to meet the entire management team overseeing the shop?
Cool machine
Amazing video I’m buzzing to see the machine run mr Rucker but every step is a learning session with every video I was sorry to hear about your cat the other day never easy losing a animal it’s like a family member hope to seee the next video up quick lol I’m in suspense lol all the best god bless everyone stay safe
22:05 - Are you sure you're using the correct drill ? ;) #radial !!!!
And at 25:25 there's a bench drill behind you - do you just have the three ? It's nice having a choice !
Just when I was giving up hope ... kitty! Interesting machining, too. :)
How do you decide whether to cut wet or dry?
He discovered it was steel instead of iron, then the first time he used any cutting fluid was on the reamer. I'm a mechanic and I use cutting fluid on all metal cutting. Ron W4BIN
you are going to frame the first chip that come of this masterpiece? RIGHT!
Mr. Ginger approves. So close to "CHIPS"
Metal planer … closer and closer. Thanks for the video!
GREAT JOB, GREAT VIDEO, PAT THE CATS AND DOGS FOR ME, SEE YOU NEXT TIME...
Good looking pullie Keith, it's coming together.
Coming up: Chips from the planer!
Nice!! Cat approved... :-)
I can’t wait to see this planer making chips
Did you consider making that pulley split, so you wouldn't have to wrestle taking the large pulleys off to install it?
He'll have to do the same to fit a belt unless it's a split belt ! He could have avoided that by fitting a cam !
@@millomweb It is assumed that a flat belt is split, you cut them to length and join them with connecters
@@lesbender236 You carry on assuming but I'm in the real world and have seen continuous flat belts of various sizes. There's probably one or two on your car !
@@millomweb Perhaps, but not made of leather as they were in the day of this machine
@@millomweb Not so much. Automotive applications tend to use V-belts, polygroove belts, ribbed belts (not the same thing), and/or toothed belts, depending on their age. Frequently you'll find flat _pulleys,_ but those are driven by the backs of wider belts and most often are guide or tension idlers.
Rivett is happy that you are feeding it.
Quation = Crown ? - Flat belt
Keith? No run-out gauges?
Thanks Keith
That stuff doesn't cut like dura-bar. Is it steel instead?
Yes it is. He mentioned that. He mis-marked it.
Planer is really lookin good!
I will hate to see those sharp flanges on the pulley once the belts have been running a while. They will become razors! Should have made them thicker.
17:21 you can see the tip of the carbide break off
youmean when it starts glowing shortly? looked to me like he chipped the insert as well. seemed to hang up on something.
Could you tell us why you put the part on the mandrel to machine the belt groove? Why not leave it in the second set-up?
It ensures the O/D where the belt runs is perfectly concentric with the bore.
An unnecessary accuracy in this case !
@@millomweb But if the belt groove was machined on the same set-up as when the bore was . . . bored, that would ensure concentricty as well, no? The part was turned around after the ring for the set screw was turned, so that wouldn't be strictly concentric with the other features (and didn't need to be); but everything else could have been machined on the same, second set-up.
@@washoecreative595 It certainly would have been near enough ! Rather than reamering, he could have bored it with a lathe boring bar - then it would have been spot on - but for a belt pulley, that kind of accuracy totally unnecessary.
You'd have to ask Keith why he chose that method - possibly no one else would have done ;)
I like the project but I honesty don't understand the goal. "I want this to look as original as possible", but 2 years after the project started, and after 1315.4 videos on scraping the ways, you start taking shortcuts to save time.
Go away. Quit trying to start shit.
@@paulcopeland9035 No
Why are you angry? Did the project use up all of your computer space?
@@paulcopeland9035 Why do you think I'm angry? I don't care it he takes 10 years and 300 videos to finish the project. Just trying to understand why he says one thing and does something else and Keith is really the only one that can truly answer that. Does someone asking questions and having a different view point from you make you angry? Instead of offering any information or participating in any discussing as to why something happens you just tell people to go away. I feel sorry for you.
@@restodrood2059 UA-cam comments are not that important.
Inch and 24/64ths? Metric is so much easier.
Not when your metrology equipment, machines, materials, and experience are primarily or exclusively inch-metric (British Imperial, US Customary, SAE).
Why the guides on the pully and not a domed pully like a bandsaw wheel?
How long will that oil last? The reservoir looks to be small and out of easy reach.
First!
Biker Max, Here’s your trophy!🏆
Are you going to have to machine a flat on the rod to engage the setscrew? I know that the oiler isn't going to require a lot of torque.
No.
1" feels a bit narrow?
18:32 Should have put a keyway in the mandrel and the work :)
Why don’t you trust your DRO more? They are very accurate but for some reason you don’t seem to trust it.
Accuracy depends on the resolution of the system.
A DRO can't account for tool or workpiece deflection. It could theoretically be 100% accurate if everything were 100% rigid, but the fact that he cuts grooves when returning the carriage proves that his machine is _not_ 100% rigid - which is effectively impossible, anyway. Metal _flexes._
@@Azlehria Do 'return grooves' bug you as much as they do me when returning for measurement ? I'd go for reversing the traverse and come out at the speed he went in - perhaps with extra spindle rpm !
@@millomweb Somewhat, yes. I don't have so much objection on heavy, roughing cuts, but when they're sneaking up on the finish . . ..
The worst example of the cause was in another video I watched recently, where Keith took a spring pass because he was 1 thou over - and ended up 1.5 _under._ That's an absurd amount of spring for 5-10 thou cuts in cast iron!
Goes a long way toward explaining why his finishes look so much rougher than many other machinists, though. I know at least some of it is tool post (lack of) rigidity, but I also have doubts about the spindle bearings because that video didn't _look_ like 2.5 thou of deflection in the tool post. 1 thou, maybe.
@@Azlehria UK 'Doubleboost' - last year, I suggested his spindle bearings were out of adjustment as his chuck spun very freely. Others made suggestions too - so he had a go at the bearings - result much less chatter when parting off. Maybe Keith should consider a tweak to his ?
As for mine - they pass my 'chuck key' test I recently invented re the issue with doubleboost last year. With the spindle out of gear (inc. power feed drive) I can stick my chuck key straight out horizontally ( 9 O'clock looking from tailstock) and the weight of the key is not enough to start the spindle turning. But if I prod the key downwards with my finger, it'll accelerate.
Not knowing anything about what's correct but being an engineer, I'd say that's about right :))))
What’s up with the set screw? Are rationing woodruff keys?
For a lightly-loaded drive, set screws are entirely sufficient and much simpler.
I know your main focus is on vintage machinery, but I hope to see you working with CNC milling some day. It's almost painful to watch the feeds being turned by hand when there are so many ways that computers can control them.
This is old school. Way. Much better