Titanic Expert Breaks Down The 'Titanic' Movie | Deep Dives | History Hit
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- Опубліковано 11 тра 2024
- Tim Maltin deep dives into the historical accuracy of James Cameron's acclaimed 1997 film 'Titanic'.
00:00 Intro
00:38 Titanic leaves Southampton
03:39 Titanic going full speed
07:08 Edward Smith and J. Bruce Ismay
08:10 Rose asks about the lifeboats
09:44 Collision with the iceberg
14:46 Boarding the lifeboats
20:22 Murdoch shoots a passanger
21:43 Thomas Andrews, Guggenheim and the old couple
25:06 Titanic breaks in half
30:56 People in the sea
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I absolutely love that fellow Titanic nerds are in the comments and calling this so-called 'expert' out on his misinformation - it truly is a wonderful, and informed, fan base
Our friend Mike Brady gonna be pulling his hair watching this
OMG I wanted to tag him so bad!!!
Need to get Historic Travels on this too for a reaction haha
Omg I thought the exact same haha
Yup! Between him and Sam from Historic Travels that should be interesting!
As someone who has no idea who that is.. why?
I was one of the world's leading experts on the Titanic when I was nine years old.
Self proclaimed of course. 😂
You weren't much worse than this guy...
"Hey everyone its your friend Mike Brady from Oceanliner Designs. Today we're going to be tearing this man to shreds about his mistakes on reacting to the Titanic movie!"
Yeah, Mike doesn't do that.
Murdoch shooting a man and committing suicide is well documented? In 2004 Cameron apologized and said he was wrong to portray it, "thinking as a storyteller rather than historian" .
And paid compensations to Murdoch family.
Officer Lightoller said that he saw an officer shoot someone then take their own life, he later claimed that it was Murdoch, but we can't be certain
I understood the apology to primarily be about the fact that it portrays Murdoch killing (even if somewhat inadvertently) someone who ultimately was an innocent bystander, when the testimony on that evening indicated that an officer (who at least one person thought was Murdoch) had killed someone who was acting in such a way to be a threat to the other passengers. And frankly, I can understand why the family would be bothered by that distinction, there is a huge difference between shooting a man who just happened to get shoved towards him and shooting a man who was actively charging the lifeboat.
I thought about that too, but i guess he knows more
I doubt it was Murdoch. He was working to the end to free Collapsible A and get as many people on it before the Boat Deck became awash. I believe he was washed off the Boat Deck and succumbed to the shock of cold water or crushed by the 1st funnel.
Let's get our facts straight. Jack Dawson was a completely fictional character that had a few historical circumstances written in as interesting easter eggs.
Which is fairly normal for composite characters.
Yes! James Cameron has said this many times. Makes me wonder about the accuracy of the rest of this guy’s facts
Dawson was not based on Thayer there are no similarities except for the name. Jack Thayer was from a very wealthy Philadelphia family and was a first class passenger
There was a J or Joseph Dawson on the real Titanic who worked in the engine room and went down with the ship. This was discovered after James Cameron made his movie
I gasped when he said such comment.
Correct. Thayer had nothing to do with the inspiration for Jack Dawson, who is entirely fictional. Who told this man he was an expert?
Pretty sure Cameron stated he made up the characters, but I guess people like to speculate that just because his name is Jack, and he drew pictures of the sinking that Thayer was the inspiration for Jack. If Cameron wanted to use a real person, he could have easily done that.
both jacks were on the titanic and did sketches, i guess that's the only connection
He seems more like an enthusiast rather than an historian
Especially with errors right from the beginning like at 3:01 "They had to build a new dock to take these enormous vessels which were twice the size of the previous largest vessels in the world." Ignoring what even the movie itself is saying : "Rose: I don't see what all of the fuss is about. It doesn't look any bigger than the Mauritania. Cal Hockley: You can be blasé about some things, Rose, but not about Titanic. It's over a hundred feet longer than the Mauritania and far more luxurious."
@@guillaumebriand8961To be fair, they did have to build a new drydock, as it was twice (give or take) the size of anything Harland and Wolf had built previously. So it’s not too wrong
He has a pretty good pedigree and seems respected in the community, it’s just that there’s been so much more information that came out (largely due to Honor and Glory’s efforts as well as “On a Sea of Glass”) in the last decade that anyone who hasn’t kept up has been lost with outdated information.
This man expertise is about 20 years out of date. And even then he'd be presenting theory as fact.
We conversed on a different video of his. He contradicts himself here on the size of Titanic. Here, he says the ship is twice the size of previous largest ship.
Yet in the other video, he says Titanic was actually shorter than previous large ship, but Titanic's tonnage was what made her be called largest ship in the World. Surely Titanic was twice the bloody tonnage of that ship? Unless it was made from Carbon Fibre.
I am thinking you were absolutely correct in your assessment if this gentleman.
@@anandmorris Tonnage is not a measurement of mass but internal volume. As an example you compare Titanic to Olympic. They are basically identical in length and not far off in weight but Titanic has more tonnage. Experience from operating Olympic lead to Titanic having some of her deck space converted to enclosed space (cabines and a restaurant).
But twice the size is wrong no matter how you look at it.
It seems like the movie really did Captain Smith and Mr. Andrews dirty. As much as it makes for great cinematography for them to stand stoically facing their ends, it undermines the much less cinematic, but also much more heroic, acts that they actually performed that night.
Yes! Although Andrews did end up in the lounge for a little while (and Victor Garber portrays the mental anguish he must have been in by then- I really wish this guy didn't call it "just hanging out") he was very active for most of the sinking. And how the movie portrays Smith during the sinking is just insulting.
For a so-called world leading expert on Titanic he should know that:-
1. It was a tugboat that avoided a collision with the SS New York when Titanic left Southampton, Captain Smith DID NOT 'push' the SS New York away, the tugboat did
2. J Bruce Ismay did not own the White Star Line, JP Morgan did. Ismay was the managing director.
3. People did hear a ghastly roar/rumble and attributed it to the boilers tearing through the ship however the boilers are still in place on the wreck, what people actually heard was the ship breaking up. He should've mentioned that.
4. The 'Japanese' man recovered from the water was actually Chinese (Fang Lang) and he was found clinging to a door, not a piece of staircase.
Yeah well their climate expert didn’t know global warming was a myth and yet presented it as a fact.
He also missed out that when the Titanic left the dock Southampton, looking at the propellers, the central propeller should not have been turning, until she was well into her voyage.
And Californian WAS indeed featured in a deleted scene.
Pedant's corner
He also said that only a few people saw the Titanic break. This is also not true. Most people testified that they saw the Titanic break in half but the inquiry trusted more the testimonies from higher ranking personnel like Lightholler who said that the Titanic didn’t break in half.
As an academic historian I do really believe that amateur historians can bring a lot to the table, in terms of Titanic history you've got people like Mike Brady among others. This bloke is a good example of a particularly poor amateur historian who has somehow convinced himself he can claim the title of 'expert'. An amateur historian is someone operating outside the traditional confines of the academy, but generally following at least some of those academic principles, primarily the principle of not outright talking out of their arse. This PR consultant isn't an academic historian, he's not an amateur, he's a bungling hobbyist with ideas above his station.
How many factual mistakes can an ‘expert’ make? Well, too many it seems……..
Fr the comments about Murdock were my last straw
Murdock?
Sad to see. I watched his documentary over and over as a kid.
It is question about Californian either
@@yupitsjessbbyx3same. Bailed after that.
First historian I've ever heard to validate the idea Murdoch shooting someone and then himself, considering Cameron admitted they added that drama for the movie's character.
I'd like to know this historian's reference on that point
An officer DID do that. We just dont know if it was Murdoch.
@@nahqiv which is the element that needs reference
@@powerfrenzy Most people point it to Murdoch because it seems to be the most logical.
I've heard people accuse it of being Smith, because his death isn't properly known. This historian states he died on a lifeboat from hypothermia, the movie (and hence most people's idea) is that he died in the bridge from drowning. Some also state that he was the officer to shoot himself.
Another good one is that it was the chief officer, Wilde (sorry if I spelt that wrong, it's been a while), was the one to shoot himself because he was more shocked by the coming disaster. I remember reading that Lightoller I believe states that the last time he saw Wilde was at the bridge long before it flooded "smoking a cigarette" and was simply never seen again. Good chance he just went to his cabin and chose to leave on his own terms.
Following this theory with a shaken-up officer, some also point it at a more junior officer (6th I think, don't remember the number) was the officer in question.
It is a pretty unfair thing to fully validate that it was Murdoch, but the other theories are just not as "dramatic" as the movies want. Smith dying in the wheel room was meant to give a feel that he was depressed due to him thinking it was his fault or whatever, Wilde was barely even shown in the movie, and same with the junior officers (other than that 5th officer who I somehow forgot his name), none of them are shown, so it wouldn't give off the same feeling if a random person came out of nowhere and shot themselves.
How was Jack based on Jack Thayer?? Because they both had the name Jack? That’s all they had in common 😂 this expert is rubbish 😂
@@Captan40000 Moody and Smith didn't have guns.
for an expert he also seems to forget that Titanic had MORE LIFEBOATS THAN THE LAW REQUIRED.
he gets a lot of stuff wrong in this. kinda weird.
Seriously! Like forgetting how long it actually took for her to sink 🤦🏻♀️
He said Bruce Ismay owned the White Star Line. Expert yeah right
@@jilliansmaniotto2326 I noticed that too. I suspect, while he is a historian, he is not a Titanic historian.
They just forgot to keep up with the speed that ships (& thus numbers of passengers) were growing...
This is riddled with inaccuracies and speculation presented as fact.
Well you go on the channel and talk about then if you think you know more....
@@cpj93070 I think that's what they just did.
@@cpj93070 To be honest this "Titanic expert" knows what he is talking about to a certain degree... Yes he did talk about some well known and less well known facts about Titanic but he really missed out on some very big talking points (that might be due to the editing of the video though). As a "non Titanic expert", more of an enthusiast, I too have noticed a fair few inaccuracies in this video... I still enjoyed it and learnt some new things though!
@@federicoperi6806 The problem is, these “few new things you learned” (FYI “learnt” is not a word)… could very well be totally false information. That’s the danger of misinformation and non-credible “experts”.
@@TitaniumTurbine For YOUR information: “learnt” is standard in British English and “learned” derives from American English. Both "learned" and "learnt" are correct forms of the past tense and past participle of the verb "learn". Of the two, "learned" is far more commonly used in American English. Learnt is used in British English and some other varieties.
What I *learnt* from this video were some interesting pieces of information that I subsequently fact checked.
I suppose you haven't *learnt* anything interesting from this video but, ironically, you've *learnt* that there are two ways of spelling the past tense/past participle of the verb "learn" thanks to the comment section.
I think it's safe to say that, like our "Titanic Expert", you cannot define yourself an "English Language Expert"... 😂
25:22 there's a bit of contention around why the funnels came down exactly (similarly for Britannic's sinking, while other ships like Lusitania did not have collapsed funnels when they went down) and Mike Brady at Oceanliner Designs a couple years back did a brilliant analysis of the design of Titanic's funnels and how it was likely the increasing water pressure around the base of the funnel that brought them down, as opposed to the stay lines snapping as portrayed on the movie and in this analysis.
It's a minor thing, but for anyone interested in looking at the architecture behinds various aspects of Titanic's sinking, it's definitely worth a watch.
Your Friend Mike Brady
I didnt get the impression here that it was the stay lines breaking that caused the funnel to collapse, but that them brsaking is what happened right before it collapsed.
2:56 the center screw would not have began turning right away. It ran off the leftover pressure of the outer screws. Just some trivia
Really? World leading titanic historian? I’ve been studying the titanic over 30 years and I’ve never even heard of him!
And apparently Bruce Ismay “owns the white star line”. He made a myriad of errors in the last video too
I have!
A yank are you?
@@BanditSlotsI think what tim probably meant by that was the bruce ismay inheirited ownership of the white star line from his father Thomas henry ismay.
Oh come on, you didn’t know that Jack was based on Jack Thayer because they both ate names Jack? 🤣
The last song the band plays always gets me 😢
Most witnesses say that they never played it.
Which makes sense. Last thing you'd ever want to do, at any stage of a sinking ship, is play a song that just screams, "everyone is about to die! So go ahead and panic!"
@@AceMoonshot Witnesses agree music was played, it is what was played that is disagreed upon. Some swore under oath at hearings that that was the music they heard. Also important to note that it had been on the Sunday first class chapel service's list of music so all of the band not only knew it but also had practiced it for that voyage.
The actual band members were much younger than shown in the film too. The oldest (the cello player) was the oldest at 40 but that was a big jump from the second oldest (the famous violinist) who was 33. The rest were between 20 and 32. When people talk about the band playing as the ship sank, one thing missed is that they were young men with their entire lives ahead of them.
@@BadgerOfTheSea And their families were sent letters from the company demanding payment for the lost uniform and badges.
@@BadgerOfTheSea My friend, In order to work on WSL ship a musician had to know 120 hymns and songs by heart. No sheets, song would be called by number and they would instantly start playing. IE. "97" and then the band plays "Nearer My God to Thee"
Is amazing how he speaks with such conviction on something he is terribly wrong about.
I don't really think Murdoch shooting himself is well documented. It's possible, and someone was have supposed to, so I have no issues with how it's portrayed. But it's certainly debated.
yeah it definitely isn’t well documented - at all.
Exactly, I was a bit surprised when this "top expert" said that.
There’s lots of witnesses who saw it
"Now for the information of all hands. We have over one hundred icebergs around us."
This was announced one morning aboard the US Coast Guard cutter I was aboard in 1973 on Ocean Station Bravo. Truly a beautiful and terrifying sight. As when the Titanic went down the sea was like a mill pond.
There were no lights on the bridge to light up the iceberg. The Bridge was always kept dark to increase visibility. Barret did say they did run under the water tight doors, they were closed from the bridge. Hitchens gave evidence, Barret was in the boiler rooms 6 when the iceberg buckled the plates. The band were inside playing until later stages, it was too cold to play outside.
That bridge light comment annoyed me. It wasn’t his first mistake but it made it clear he knows absolutely little
From my understanding the iceberg that hit the titanic start forming 15000 years ago before it broke off. What a ride
Tim's point about the Californian not being featured in this version of Titanic is a worthy note, and if anyone is interested in exploring this further I highly recommend watching A night to remember. It's black & white but really well made for the time
A Night to Remember is a better Titanic film on EVERY LEVEL.
There was a scene filmed involving the Californian, but it was cut from the final version.
@@rrice1705 I must be a victim of the mandela effect 🤔 but you're right
it is in the deleted scenes. The film was already 3 hours long by that point.
@@purefoldnz3070 More! More! 😄
Really should be laws around requiring experts to establish their bona fides...
Fun Fact: Titanic actually had 6 of hers compartments breeched, "Boiler Room 5" had its coal bunker taking water, and it was discovered only moments before the coal bunker wall rivets started flying out and letting water burst violently, completely trashing the bunker.
that was the point, when any chance of pumping water was gone.
Titanic actually had maybe only 3 segregating gates, and not hundreds like shown in the movie,
the other segregating obstacles were: the waist high gates on the well deck that can be jumped over, or opened by removing the pin.
there were all so doors who could be opened like the entrance to first & second class from Scotland road, or like the one in the Veranda Caffe.
and those 3 classic gates (like in the movie) were in a mailroom area, having no real effect on survival chance.
That's what's really sad. Having 5 compartments breached, being able to survive with 4 flooded, they were trying their best to pump water out of the 5th compartment. Perhaps if the 6th (barely) breached compartment hadnt been caught in the iceberg, Titanic wouldnt have sunk, or at least taken a lot a longer to sink.
As far as I’m concerned Mike Brady from Oceanliner Designs (YT Channel) and Dr. Robert Ballard are the experts on anything Titanic and her sisters
We need our friends Mike Brady and Historic Travels, Sam. To see this. The movie also mentioned RMS Mauretania and RMS Olympic makes a brief cameo on the ticket that Jack and his friend got from the gamble.
I applaud them in their Sisyphean task of debunking the sort of gross errors and misinformation such that presented in this video. I can only imagine that Sam from @HistoricTravels will have as nearly (and rightfully!) large an aneurysm from this video as he did from Bright Side’s.
@@tygrubb Oh Yeah, I remember Sam roasting the heck alot of Bright Side, even screaming sometimes.
Amazing video with some great and correct aspects mentioned. However, I noticed some minor things that I feel should be cleared up.
2:12: Yes, third-class passengers were segregated from the other classes. However, there were no "gates" separating them. The gates seen in the movie were used in parts of the ship to secure cargo and other crew areas. These black steel gates were non-existent in passenger areas. Third-class was actually segregated by mostly plain white closed doors, through which they probably never knew that they would lead them to safety. It's commendable that Tim mentioned that stewards were sent down to help the third-class passengers up the decks.
4:53: A small correction: all of Titanic's propellers were driven by steam. The middle one used the generated steam in another way by utilizing a turbine, while the outside propellers used triple-expansion steam engines.
5:00: The myth of Jack Dawson being in any way inspired by or based on Jack Thayer is completely inaccurate. There is absolutely no similarity between them apart from their name. Jack Thayer survived atop collapsible B, which overturned when the Titanic began its final plunge. I'm not sure where this myth originated from really. However, Tim mentions something that is very correct and significant about Jack Thayer namely that he gave account that the ship broke in half.
14:30: Port holes? That's a new one! It was a very cold night. The role of portholes was not significant in Titanic's sinking, unlike with her sister ship Britannic. So, no, the damage of the iceberg was not "doubled" by the portholes. But it's good that he mentioned the coal fire not in any way contributing, as that's a common myth I am tired of hearing. Thanks for debunking.
15:15: The Titanic sank in around 2 hours and 40 minutes, not 2 hours 20 minutes. It's a minor error, possibly a mix-up as the ship sank at 2:20 AM.
20:32: No, very very big no no. It's not a "fact" that Murdoch shot passengers, and it's also not confirmed that he shot himself. The only thing confirmed is that shots were fired at some point during the sinking. The portrayal of Murdoch committing suicide after shooting two men is fiction from the film.
23:57: The apparent violin recovered from the deck and later sold is likely not genuine. There isn't any hard proof to confirm its authenticity.
26:30: The majority of people died in the freezing waters of the Atlantic, not on Titanic's stern. I am sure he meant it this way though.
27:22: The exact angle at which Titanic broke her back is widely disputed. 15° is too shallow and disagrees with many passenger accounts saying that the stern rose to over 45°, which is why between 25-30° remains the most agreed-upon range.
28:15: Regarding Jack Thayer, refer to the previous comments.
28:35: Charles Joughin's account of not getting his hair wet is often taken too literally. It was likely meant in a hyperbolic way, underlining his claims of how he saw his survival being relatively easy. Titanic's last moments were not "calm" but chaotic and dramatic as it descended rapidly into the ocean. Water was rushing in faster than the air inside the ship could escape. Portholes and hatches were exploding outwords right and left.
That was everything I found.
Overall, an excellent video, especially for those new to the Titanic! From a so called "expert", I would have however expected a little more.
Great commentary. It was my understanding that there was circumstantial evidence that Murdoch shot himself?
One more thing to correct would be the weird pronunciation of the baker's name. I admit that even among those who know a lot about the Titanic, nobody seems to know how to pronounce "Joughin" correctly. I've heard several different versions of the name, but the one in this video just has to be incorrect. Where does Tim Maltin get the L from?
I agree with all the things you corrected, those were actually the same mistakes I found, too. What I don't agree with is you conclusion. How can you call this an "excellent video" when you've spotted all those mistakes? It really bothers me that Tim Maltin often introduces himself as "one of the leading experts on the Titanic". Yes, this man knows a lot about the ship and its history. But considering that you and I both found some obvious mistakes in this video, apparently we know even more about the Titanic than he does. And I don't know about you, but I don't consider myself a "leading expert".
The gates were very much a thing. Health and safety regulation required quarantine of third and sometimes second class passengers until they could be inspected by immigration officials. However, the gates only between waist to shoulder high and stewards were sent down to unlock them. Although based on one survivor testimony it is ambiguous how a priority that was. The real issue is that only thing marking evacuation routes were signs in English. Most 3rd class passengers weren't literate and those that were where usually didn't usually read English. Little to no crew was appointed to assist them getting to the lifeboats. Additionally, there are several very well documented instances of possible classism from inquiry testimony ranging how lifeboats were loaded to someone potentially literally bribing crew not go back to look for survivors
@@bpax7119 Could you send me a source for the bribing? I would love to read into that as I have never heard of it.
@@PeterSchmieder I absolutely agree with you. The reason I still called this an excellent video is that I didn't want to discredit him or something. Some points he mentioned were still very true. But yes, him calling himself an expert is maybe a little over the top.
Where did you get this expert from?? Wish??
I think he's more a TEMU guy.
I love th snl skit with Bill Paxton and James Camerons alternate ending where everyone starts beating up old lady Rose, including her daughter.
this story has perennial and profound fascination, so it is both fitting and necessary that there be experts to give reasoned commentary on the event given the emergence of error and mythology.
thanks for this.
even though i am not a hard core serous titanic buff i do tome back to the story every few years or so
I’m also a bit surprised that as an “expert” he didn’t mention that as Titanic departed, the turbine center screw would not begin spinning with the wing screws. The center screw cannot engage until the reciprocating engines powering the wing screws are going at a rate of at LEAST 50rpm(half ahead or faster). Not to mention, passengers were not allowed on the forecastle like that.
When I watched the film for the first time, I was surprised at how intense and sad it was. Obviously the real life event was terrible and tragic, but I didn't think Cameron would go there. It is a really tense and terrifying film.
He Didnt even know that it sank in 2 hours and 40 mins
10:24 if captain smith was still awake and acting as captain he probably would have immediately shouted “ Reform the line! Reform the line! Take it head on! Charge!” But that’s just my theory
And then the whole crew cried "Deeeaaaath!"
Hahahaha Bernard Hill is the only actor to star in two of the three films that won 11 oscars.
@@xxMary89xx He looked at the iceberg and said “ Is this all you can conjure icebergmaun?” I could do this all day I bet lmao
I would say Tim Maltin should make sure that when he uses the word "expert" that he should really knows his stuff. There are some things he says in this video that are misleading and at worse speculation stated as fact. For those who would like a better and more reliable take on the Titanic disaster I would recommend the book On a Sea of Glass as a good starting point. Everything therein is backed up by testimonies and evidence, infact Tim should buy a copy.
The British Board of Trade failed to update the lifeboat law as ships grew bigger. They measured the number of lifeboats by the gross tonnage not the number of passengers aboard. Also, lifeboats were seen as transporting people from a distressed ship to a nearby rescue ship not meant as lifesavers
He did at least address the latter half of that. I do wish he had more emphasized just how many ships were on those shipping routes and how close they typically were (and as we found out, how close the California was).
I'm more irritated that in all the discussion of why the California didn't reply to distress calls, he never brought up the fact that the radio operator otherwise would have been on duty at the time, but took off early because the radio operator on Titanic was hogging the airwaves with passenger messages to be relayed to people on shore and he wasn't going to be able to get any communications done anyway.
@@smileyeagle1021Titanic operators weren't hogging the airwaves by transmitting passenger messages...
That was Marconi operators main job. Delivering passenger Marconigrams (Telegrams), which was why most shops only had a single operator. They weren't expected to work around the clock or to monitor for distress calls.
Even Carpathia's wireless operator was about to go to bed when he heard the distress call from Titanic.
I was immediately thrown when he said that Olympic and Titanic were twice the size of the next-largest ships. RMS Mauretania from the Cunard Line, launched in 1906, was 790 feet long with 8 decks and Titanic was 882 feet long with 9 decks. Even in tonnage Mauretania was 31k GRT and Titanic was 46k GRT. Not exactly twice as large.
Thank you for getting it right about the number of lifeboats. You might also have mentioned that in 1912 lifeboats were a very dubious method of lifesaving, since the North Atlantic usually had rough weather and the boats, once launched, would more often than not get swamped or blown away and never seen again. Focusing on the watertight division of the internal compartments was the right principle to apply, only the Olympic class did not apply it very well, and the Titanic was sunk by damage similar to that which the Great Eastern survived easily.
Personally, I didn’t mind the inaccuracies. It was a great movie and still is.
Titanic’s engines did not produce 70,000 horsepower. The two reciprocating engines produced around 15,000 horsepower each, with the low pressure turbine engine producing around 16,000 horsepower. A grand total of 46,000 horsepower. I’m not sure where this “expert” got his facts from.
The SS Californian actually was mentioned in the film. Sadly, it was a deleted scene, which very much should have been kept in. But you can find that scene easily online.
One very important fact is that Ismay was always actually AGAINST arriving early because that meant passengers would actually have some trouble with hotel reservations and other plans.
After reading a few comments, thanks guys for keeping me from wasting my time. 😃
7:08; In case you don't know, the young woman behind Bruce Ismay and Captain Smith recalled their conversation about speeding up Titanic so she could get to New York faster. At the time after Titanic's sinking, the real woman told the publishers she just happened to overhear the conversation. That's quite an interesting fact!
True! I found it weird that the historian didn't mention this piece of information
So interesting! Thank you!
Olympic and Titanic were not designed to be the fastest ships, but the most luxurious ships
What this summary misses in it's summation of the iceberg collision is, the suggestion that Murdoch ordering the engines to reverse actually hindered the ship from turning, as the central turbine and screw couldn't be reversed and so had to be stopped. Had he maintained the forward course and kept the screws turning, it's possible the ship would have avoided the iceberg with feet to spare.
@10:35 you said he gave the order to "turn the ship hard to starboard, to the left." 22 years in the US Navy has taught me that when you are facing the bow (front of the vessel), port refers to the left side, and starboard refers to the right side. Hard to starboard would have resulted in damage to the port side of the vessel.
It is not confirmed or certain which officer committed suicide after shooting a passenger. May believe it was not Murdock.
The new four k restoration of this film is absolutely amazing. They Put a lot of work into the detail of this movie and honestly, it looks as though it was filmed yesterday. Absolutely. Gorgeous, and welcome to such a great movie
You did see the mud in leaving port but you could not spot that the center propeller started to turn right at the pier. That was an turbine probeller and was used only in oceans, and when the piston engines were in full steam.
I could listen to Tim Maltin talk about this topic and time period all day. I watched his other History Hit video and found it equally as interesting. Thank you for sharing this knowledge in such an engaging way.
I agree. He knows his stuff and his enthusiasm for his subject is quite infectious.
What was his other video?
@@sba8710 It’s on this channel and titled “Expert Answers Google’s Most Popular Questions About the Titanic” or something similar to that. It’s from a couple of weeks ago.
@sba8710 on here he did a most asked questions about the titanic
He’s far from an expert. For someone who calls themselves a leading expert on the Titanic. He should have known something incredibly beginner that Bruce Ismay did not own the White Star Line.
That was very interesting, thank you
I bet in EVERY THEATER that Titanic played in, in 1997, EVERY PATRON took a breath the moment Jack said "NOW!"
Titanic is YT gold, some guys whole channels are based on it. Edit: Collier, I need to you to row this lifeboat….Yes, Sir!!!!!
Like oceanliner designs guy..
Actually Alexander Carlisle designed the Olympic and Titanic, not Thomas Andrews. Andrews hired after Carlie retired
I’m waiting until the 14th to watch Titanic in memory of all the lives lost 112 years ago but I’ll never not watch these videos. Sometimes I learn something new and I’m a big Titanic fan.
I learned a lot from Tasting History this year. His stuff is half history and he has some great anecdotes I’ve not known about.
I may watch Titanic on Sunday, but every Anniversary that night I’ll watch an up to date reenactment of the sinking with little time stamps telling when all the things happened. It’s so quick in real time.
@@AmaraJordanMusic I’ve seen him. He recreated what they ate onboard the Ship too which was great. Aww, yes! I watch those too. Titanic Honor & Glory being one of them. ☺️
As to his only complaint about the absence of the Californian storyline, this was actually filmed and can be found in the deleted scenes on most DVD/Blu-Ray/4K copies.
While I don't agree with everything this man has said, he got many details right. It is believed that Titanic was around 23 degrees before the breakup. Thomas Andrews was reported as being in the smoking room staring at the painting before 2 AM, but he was also reported on deck helping passengers alongside Smith when they were washed away near the bridge. Maybe Andrews took a moment to think and regroup. It is debated whether Ismay gave orders for speed or that Smith wanted to oust the Olympic's speed because he opted to take the longer Southern Transatlantic Route to avoid ice altogether. There was a passenger tgat talked about Smith and Ismay having thqt conversation in the D-deck first-class reception room. You can see her eavesdropping in the movie. There was no proof that Murdoch deleted himself. However, there were reports of a senior officer doing so. Even Charles Lightoller testified to this. There were no gates blocking the main entrances classes except for one of the boarding areas. There was an unmarked door to the first-class stairwell from the crew passage (Scotland Road). Others climbed over tge railing to second-class entrance and entered through the stairwell. Many third-class passengers waited for orders in the third-class general room near the stern. This man gets many details right. The smoldering fire didn't aid in the progression of the sinking, the stokers had ladders that went up to E-deck, Smith wasn't traveling at full-speed, the Titanic almost had a collision with the SS New York, there wasn't as much fanfare for Titanic, panic didn't set in until the boats were gone and the Titanic's opening was limited to the size of a standard door.
Californian WAS indeed featured in a deleted scene.
Yes, and that Japanese man he mentioned too.
Thank you for this, i have only watched titanic twice in my life, and it hurts my heart for all those who lost their lives. I watched titanic last year with my daughter, her first time, and she said it was very stressful. We also agreed we are not going on any cruises.
I’ve been on 9 cruises, never had any safety concerns. And they usually do a safety drill in the beginning so you know which lifeboat to go to in case an evacuation is needed.
Yes they did bring it up toward the end. You must have missed that part the telegrapher was talking to captain Smith and they mention the Californian being nearby but the telogragher went to sleep.
It was a little sign of Californian in the scene and also there wasn't hand lights in lifeboats or blue night lights on the people cause it was moonless and almost pure dark.
In reality, Murdock didn't commit suicide. His descendants were angered by his portrayal in the film. Cameron apologized for how he portayed Murdock. There were no reports of any passengers being shot. Although there were speculations that an officer did indeed turn a gun on himself, it wasn't Murdock who did so.
❤R.I.P Bernard Hill❤ "Captain Smith" in Titanic
True fact: Did you know it was Rose's ridiculous hat that caught the wind and blew Titanic into the iceberg. No steering from the crew could compensate.
Rose not only killed Jack, she killed 1500 other too.
Just to clear up where how Officer Murdoch became associated with the scene, here are a few examples: “Stories of Officer Murdoch’s suicide tended to be quite consistent. Thomas Whitely, a waiter, reported that Murdoch ‘shot one man -I did not see this, but three others did -and then shot himself.’ Mrs. George D. Widener claimed, ‘I went on deck and was put in a lifeboat. As the boat pulled away from the Titanic I saw one of the officers shoot himself in the head.’ Steerage passenger Carl Jansen told how he had ‘glanced toward the bridge and saw the chief officer place a revolver in his mouth and shoot himself. His body toppled overboard.’
First Class Passenger, Hugh Woolner testified that he saw "two flashes of a pistol in the air" which he thought were fired by First Officer William Murdoch in an attempt to stop a rush on "a collapsible." This incident must have occurred during the loading of Collapsible C. The testimony at the Senate Inquiry reads:
Senator SMITH. Who fired those two shots, do you know?
Mr. WOOLNER. Mr. Murdoch, so far as I can tell.
Senator SMITH. Mr. Murdoch, the chief officer?
Mr. WOOLNER. Yes; he was the first officer, was he not?
Senator SMITH. You are quite certain it was not Mr. Lowe?
Mr. WOOLNER. I am pretty certain. I think I recognized the voice of Mr. Murdoch.
Senator SMITH. Mr. Lowe says he fired three shots as his lifeboat was being lowered.
Mr. WOOLNER. I do not remember them.
*REMEMBER - THE FILM IS PRESENTED AS A "MEMORY" - SINCE THE CHARACTER OF ROSE ISN'T PRESENT IN THE SCENE, THE DETAILS PORTRAYED IN THE FILM WOULD HAVE BEEN SOMETHING SHE READ IN ONE OF THE NEWSPAPERS, AND VOCALIZED AS SHE TOLD HER STORY - IT ALSO APPEARS, TO ME, TO BE JAMES CAMERON'S WAY OF SAYING HE'S UNCERTAIN WHO IT WAS, TOO - MANY ASSUME THAT JUST BECAUSE HE APOLOGIZED TO THE MURDOCH FAMILY THAT IT MEANS THAT THE SCENE IS ENTIRELY MADE UP - IT'S NOT. IF HE HAD PORTRAYED THE EVENT USING ANOTHER CREW MEMBER (AS SOME DESCRIBED) THEN HE MORE THAN LIKELY WOULD HAVE BEEN APOLOGIZING TO THAT FAMILY INSTEAD*
Was the suction a bigger issue when trying to get clear? I've heard somewhere once clear by about 100ft,not so?
Jack Thayer was a first class passenger don’t think jack Dawson was based on him
@@P0sitive_vibes_0nly what
Ok... I JUST NOTICED that Captain Smith was played by the same actor as Theoden, King of Rohan...
I was going to comment about this "expert," but I see you guys have it covered. Lol.
To me the coolest part of the movie is the start. When hube pistons are moving, the furnaces...
Make a whole movie out of those engines. They are works of art.
Still gets to me so sad 😢
I agree. So many things went wrong that could have been avoided.
Brilliant analysis.
Could anyone please recommend some books about Titanic for someone who knows a little but wants to learn more? It's fascinated me since i was young
One of the best books available is still Walter Lord's 'A Night To Remember', which is largely based on the recollections of survivors. And yes, the film was based on Walter Lord's book.
Also, check out the UA-cam channel Oceanliner Designs. It has a lot of videos on the Titanic, including debunking many of the myths which are still around.
@@johncunningham6928 brilliant. Thank you!
On A Sea of Glass
@@thethirdrichard7787 thanks 👍
Titanic Lives is brilliant.. also watch the Rest is history video on the Titanic
I had family on the ship!
a distant fourth cousin worked in the boiler room, Arthur Head, and the captain's wife Sarah was my great great grandmother Emily Doodson's cousin.
Actually in the movie they did include the California and using the lamps, however it was a deleted scene. They also included a mention about the binoculars, and Captain Smith trying to have lifeboats return to the ship to be filled at full capacity but they were all deleted scenes.
I’ve gone to the Titanic museums in MO and TN-very interesting
Just the obscure niche I needed in my life. This is why I have a HH sub
Tasting History has a lot of videos on food for different classes on Titanic, and it’s at least half a history show, and despite me loving Titanic he had a few anecdotes I’d not previously known about. Highly recommend!
@@AmaraJordanMusic oh I'm here for all that 👌🏼
I worry for the historical accuracy that HH is teaching you if you listen to this “expert”. Have a read of the other comments and see what he got wrong. He even said Bruce Ismay “owed the white star line” when he didn’t and thats beginner level knowledge
RIP Bernard Hill.. .just died today
The picture of the Carpathia at 35:54 shows the ship in Malta's Grand Harbour in the Mediterranean.
Remember when James Cameron tested if they could release all the lifeboats Titanic had in time.... They couldn't. So having more lifeboats would never have helped.
After what happened to titanic I know the rules changed in lifeboats and emergency drills. But do boats need someone on radio shift 24 hours a day now? So that in an emergency there is always contact for help?
These days all communication equipment is on the bridge, which has an officer and crewmembers standing watch at all times. : )
It's "A Night To Remember" with Jack and Rose thrown in.
I remember playing a computer game called "Titanic: Adventure in Time" in which one of the tasks was to get the Rubiyat off of the ship.
i have been thinking, the collision with the big ice berg could have been avoided had smith choose to reduce ship's speed to 5 knots. or less. for such heavy weights going fast just increased chances for hitting it.
5:03 Jack Dawson was not based on Jack Thayer. Dawson was a fictional character, not actually based on anyone.
@36:33 They did shoot a scene with Californian but it got cut from the film.
1997 film Titanic kept the memory and legacy of the ship, crew, and passengers alive.
The drunken baker and how he survived is featured in the earlier film “ A Night to Remember.” It is a bit of dark humor amongst the rest of the chias and destruction. The movie is very good.
There's absolutely NO EVIDENCE that Murdoch shot someone NOR himself. This was disappointing.
Lightoller was the man who denied this but during the enquiry it was shown he could not have seen Murdoch from where he was, plus he was said to have told captain James Mcgiffin that he did indeed unalive himself and another passenger. Theres a chance it was someone else, but when passenger testimony is looked into there's a lot that suggests it was him. Lightoller just wanted to protect Murdochs widow.
A little detail missed: When the ship departed South Hampton you can see all three propellers spinning. The center propeller was driven by a turbine which was powered by the left over steam coming out of the reciprocating engines. For that steam to be dry enough to be used by the turbine the reciprocating engines would had to be running for quite a while. So, the center propeller wouldn't be operating when the ship left the dock.
Southampton being mistakenly called South Hampton is genuinely very sweet. A little detail missed there too 😜
It’s just two days away from the anniversary of her sinking. April 14.❤ my only argument is some things that he is stating as facts have been said they are not facts. by other people. For example, Murdoch family steadfastly deny that he ever committed suicide. People have argued He did not commit suicide.
I have only 1 complaint about this video... its only 37m long.. I want more! 😭
Love this guy but wasn’t it 2 hours and 40 minutes to sink? He says 2 hours and 20 minutes.
Yes, it was 2 hours and 40 min. And in another video I watched a few weeks ago, this same historian says 2 hours and 20 min multiple times!!
As usual both the movie and the commentator completely omit the fact that after the collision, the Titanic started steaming ahead again (in a northwards direction) at low speed for a few minutes. This is attested in the accounts of both Jack Thayer and Lawrence Beasley.
I've read and heard discussion that if they hadn't tried to turn out of the way of the iceberg that the ship wouldn't have sunk. It would have crushed the nose and probably one or two of the floodable areas... At the speed they were going, reckon that's likely?