The Biggest Titanic Disaster Myths Debunked!
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- 'The Biggest Titanic Disaster Myths Debunked!'
Why did Titanic sink? Was Titanic's rudder too small? Why did Titanic's crew not see the iceberg? Did they open fire on passengers, or lock them in third class accommodation? Was Titanic's captain drunk? In this video we answer all these questions and lots more!
At noon on 10 April 1912, crowds gathered at Southampton to watch the maiden voyage of the World's largest ship RMS Titanic. A sleek, modern luxurious liner that was offering a safe and fast crossing of the Atlantic Ocean. Titanic was said to be invincible. She cruised down Southampton waters on her maiden voyage to North America, watched by large crowds.
But she would never reach New York. Barely 5 days after leaving Southampton she was gone, swallowed up by the Atlantic after striking an iceberg. The maritime disaster that struck Titanic has made her the most famous ship in history, with many myths emerging about what happened that fateful night on 14/15 April. Dan Snow visits Titanic expert Tim Maltin to sort the fact from the fiction about the ship’s final hours.
#Titanic #Disaster #HistoryHit
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Before clicking the video I thought "ugh 25 minutes, why so long" and then it ended and NOW I WANT MORE! Can this guy please go over every single minute of the Titanic's history please???
25 minutes is long? Yikes, I watched a 3 hour podcast the other day. Well, listened to it. ☺
you might have ahdd if 25 mins is too much
Check out Historic Travels channel - lots and lots of titanic stories :)
Excellent presentation as always Dan.
Tim was so enthusiastic and gripping, he deserves props for his ability to speak with such vigor on a historical topic
I completely agree you. When a historian speaks with so much enthusiasm about their topic it instantly makes it so much more engaging and interesting.
@@phillday7967 agree with this entirely, and as a person whose name is also Dan, I can say with some authority that the frequency with which Tim says my name makes it that much more engaging lol
He's over the top and very annoying, as is the music
I agree
Yeah but this guy doesn’t actually know what happens either. He’s going off mainstream media information mostly. I wouldn’t trust him or anyone. This guy knows as much as me or you or anyone.
Tim seems like a great presenter. I could see him doing shows and videos of his own! He has a good balance of knowledge, eccentricity and communication.
When Dan first started talking about Tim I thought oh here we go again some nutter thinking their an expert but how wrong I was! This guy knows his stuff and is so nice to listen to!
He didn't mention the rockets the California night watchmen saw that night
Tim was presenter of Titanics Final Mystery....give it a watch
He is animated and knowledgeable. Ticks all the boxes for me 😊. Thanks Tim.
"Knowledgeable" not by all accounts.....
Even knowing a bunch of the basics, this video was full of interest and new information. It was nice to hear some sympathetic words about the two, often pilloried, captains. More on Titanic please!
Same here. There were three or four things at least that I had no idea about before. And I've watched every Titanic movie and documentary that's ever been released. So that's really good. Great video.
With the unfortunate elephant in the room, 90% of the stories we were told about the #Titanic were almost entirely false and/or over exaggerated.
I was lucky enough to visit Millvina Dean at her home near Southampton. She was the youngest survivor and also the last one to die. A fascinating lady, who although she did not have any memory of the incident as she was only 10 weeks old, had a lot of recollections of things that she had been told.
Wow, that’s awesome.
I loved listening to her. How lucky you were to meet her!
So glad to watch this. Teaches us much while warnng us to not be fooled by the stories as some rush to the exciting and unfounded click-bait of past eras.
But can you trust this without doing your own research first , or you just believe most things you see ?
🙄 to the entire comment. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
@@jaywalker3087
He got som
@@jaywalker3087 - Research depends entirely on the ability to determine the fidelity of the source materials one uses.
@@jaywalker3087 Good and deep point, but how far do you go? I have a lawn to mow and a life to live, so I'll trust this bloke.
Another reason why the calmness worked against the Titanic was the sea itself. Normally, the waves will break against the iceberg, allowing you to see it through movement even in total darkness. However, the sea was eerily calm that night, meaning that the sky and the sea were both working against the Lookouts that night
I read about that, appartently still water is a sign of icepacks as the presence of icebergs can create a still sea
That calm sea is the reason the survivors survided... those wooden boats were not made to survive a normal open sea, if it wasnt for that, more than likely some or many boats would have capsized or be sent adrift far away from the sinking area, never to be found on time by the carpathia.
@@Gabriel-qr9dv Hmm depends. So with how calm the water was they vould have overloaded them. Then yes, maybe one or two would have capsized around 3-4 AM when a swell did come up. Though not much, it mainly gave the already capsized Collapsible B some trouble, with about a dozen balancing precariously on top, including a very cold baker and less frozen Lightoller.
But it wasn't much. I think overloading the boats with 75 would have been okay. The full sized boats, not the collapsibles or the cutters.
Now a storm yeah they would have all died but Carpathia was near. Woest case they would have had to look for some of the boats a little longer but they weren't where Carpathia thought anyway. Titanic's last position was off by about 12 miles. But Carpathia fired rockets as she got close, the boats saw them and lit flares (and a few hats). That's why it took forever to find her. No one knew her position except that her last given position was off by 10-20 miles.
@@monarch3495 That does make sense, the ice pack can sorta form a shield of sorts against outside wave action, effectively creating an area of much calmer waters.
@Gabriel-qr9dv
The point is that there likely would not have been anything to survive if the sea had not been so calm; if the sea had not been so calm, the iceberg would have been visible, there would have been no collision, and no reason to launch the lifeboats.
Great to hear the myths deconstructed.
James Cameron for a man who cares about the ship and clearly wanted to make a passion project, only perpetuates many myths.
With the loss of Titan, he is back on air blaming the captain for ignoring ice warnings going full speed trying to break speed records when the captain actually changed course and the entire voyage was clearly not an exercise in full speed.
Yes, Titanic was an exercise in full speed. It was like going according to the posted speed limit during a snowstorm or icy road conditions. Captain Smith absolutely pretended the ice fields, icebergs and icy conditions did not even exist; the more warnings he got from other ships that conditions were bad and it was time to slow down or stop, the more he stuck to his 'full speed ahead, business as usual' actions.
During the hearings, the myth was promoted that ignoring ice and going at regular speed was common practice. This was or was not true (I don't care) but on that particular night, the wires were being used to communicate among ALL the ships in the area the best practice was to slow down or even stop due to the unusual conditions. Failure to figure that out and heed the warnings, insistence on keeping to schedule despite the ice field was what James Cameron was talking about.
Captain Smith threw all caution to the winds and recklessly endangered his ship. It then hit an iceberg and sank. That is not a myth. He wasn't trying to break all-time speed records, but he was definitely speeding too much for conditions and going as fast as his ship would go.
@@egm8602 do you often make up history
@@egm8602 Do you have proof of this? Because as it stands the evidence says Captain Smith did take precautions by changing his course, and set his speed slower then 18 knots. You are basically slandering Captain Smith without cause!
@@egm8602 No, he didnt go full speed or as as fast as the ship would go. One boiler room wasnt even lit.
And no, it was not communicated among ALL ships in the area, not ALL ships had even wireless.
Back then lifeboats were not viewed as lifesavers, but rather to transport passengers from a distressed ship to a rescue ship
Indeed. There were multiple incidents where lifeboats were launched only to be smashed to pieces against their ships by waves, capsized by waves, or simply lost until the occupants died of exposure or dehydration/ starvation. Plus, most ships sank far faster than the Titanic and even the Titanic's crew barely had enough time to launch the relatively few it did have.
@@foxymetroid Unfortunately the support of such an idea came partially as a result of the wreck of the Republic in 1903
Great video Dan ! Tim Maltin is very interesting.
One thing I would like to mention : the very first two pictures that appear on screen (0:36 and 0:41) are in fact pictures of Titanic's sister-ship, the Olympic, and its first class dining room.
Not an auspicious start for a video that claims to debunk myths.
@@stephend - To be fair, that's pretty much par for the course though. As the first ship of her class, it was Olympic which garnered by far the most attention in terms of press and what we would these days call "public relations". It's important to remember that prior to the disaster, Titanic was considered the second ship of a class of three - no more, no less; the only reason she ended up being more "famous" than her sisters was because she sank. While she did have various alterations and "improvements" over Olympic, if I remember rightly, the first-class dining room would have been more-or-less the same.
@@turricanedtc3764 they was both hands carved had different styles on them. You look at two pictures of the dining rooms side by side from each ship you will see a lot of differences between them.
One thing I have always been prone to thinking about the Titanic disaster is some variation of, "What if," or, "If only," but the more I learn about it, the more I'm inclined to believe it had to happen as it did. So many things went wrong, in so many small, unimaginable ways. I'm now of the opinion it was simply unavoidable.
You want me to throw a huge wrench in that?
Of the 6 gashes made in the hull by the berg only the 6th and final one doomed Titanic. It opened Boiler Rooms 6 and 5 to the ocean, which where compartments 5 and 6 from the bow. There was a tiny gash in Nr.6 but not more than the pumps could handle.
That gash at 21 knots speed took 200-400 milliseconds to appear.
So another half second warning and she would have floated. Badly damage but not in danger of sinking any time soon and most likely would have limped into Halifax, passengers offloaded to Carpathia and Olympic.
Murdoch came so damn close to pulling it off... half a second decided between him getting a slap on the wrist for sending a brand new liner back into drydock and 1500 dying including the FO himself of course.
I think the complete opposite. So many things went wrong, and if one or two didn't go wrong, the ship probably saved. Ship sails in March as planned? It's fine. Gash is a bit shorter? They're fine. There's also evidence that the part of the ship that struck the iceberg had been damaged before it left the dock. Add in the cost of coal and a fire in one of the coal storers meaning they might not have enough to speed up again if they slowed down. It's the biggest clusterfuck in history.
But as the man said, better weather and maybe they see the iceberg- though there was another massive ice sheet not far in front of them.
All ships of the era were considered to be "practically unsinkable". They all had compartment systems to contain flooding, and the conventional wisdom was that ships of the era would either not sink or at worst would stay afloat for long enough to safely evacuate in an orderly fashion. This is exactly what happened to RMS Republic, which sank a couple of years earlier, took a day or more to go down, and everybody who wasn't killed in the initial impact escaped.
Of the Adriatic, captain Smith said, "I cannot imagine any condition which would cause a ship to founder. I cannot conceive of any vital disaster happening to this vessel. Modern shipbuilding has gone beyond that." At the time it was a commonly held view, and typical of the arrogance and unfounded optimism of the Edwardian period.
We have GPS.. Impossible with tech now to ever have something like this happen. Can you imagine social media in seconds!! 😂
@@Andybarney555 It did wonders for the Costa Concordia.
@@Andybarney555 The Costa Concordia was actively using GPS navigation when they collided with the rock that sank her. Rocks and icebergs are equipped with neither GPS nor collision avoidance systems.
@@thomashumphrey48 It sank. The only reason it didn't completely submerge was because the water was too shallow. And it wasn't pumped out, it had buoyancy tanks welded to it because it was no long capable of floating.
Quite. The idea that the Titanic, the second of its class, would be hailed as THE unsinkable ship is obviously nonsense. It was simply the largest modern ship. It was not the most unsinkable and it was not promoted as such. Advertisements for it proclaim its size, its luxury and where and when it was sailing.
He left out the fact that the Titanic officers fired several emergency rockets and even though the Crew of the Californian saw them they failed to act, they even thought the ship they could see in the distance looked like it was sitting at a funny angle and was partly out of the water yet they still didn't do anything, the fact Captain Lord never even woke up the wireless operator and asked him to contact the ship in the distance is staggering, i mean distress rockets fired in the middle of the night from another ship it was ignored, whether or not the ship could of reached the Titanic in time with all the ice around is debatable but it's undeniable that Captain Lord failed to act, and it's right he was condemned in the aftermath.
The distress rockets weren't fired at the correct time intervals. The crew of the Californian thought they were company signals. It's true that the crew of the Californian should have done more, but they didn't do anything wrong.
Only one nearby ship had a radio (Titanic). Due to atmospheric conditions they thought the ship they saw was too small to be Titanic, and so tried the lamp with morse code, but those same atmospheric conditions meant Titanic couldn't make sense of the light.
There is a certain consistent interval that crew must fire rockets to indicate distress. Titanics rockets were fired spastically and inconsistently, essentially randomly. Californians crew therefore didn’t think they were distress rockets, but rather company signals.
You’re completely and utterly wrong but go off I guess? Crazy, people will just blabber nonsense
The Californian was not insured to sail at night, so Lord would have preferred not to risk it if he didn't need to. Should have woken up the radio operator though.
Since ships grew big so rapidly, the British Board of Trade failed to update their lifeboat laws, which by 1911 were outdated. It measured the number of lifeboats by the gross tonnage and not the number of passengers aboard
But to be fair they barely managed to load the lifeboats they had, they didn't have enough time to load all even if they had them.
@@kazak8926 They had time but Officers wern;t sure if the boats could take the weight lowered full from the Boat deck. They seemed unaware of the test in Belfast
Yes. Were last amended 1894
To be fair to the White Star Line, going by the tonnage of the Titanic, she was carrying more lifeboats than she was legally required to. But at the time, there was also a coal strike, so there were fewer vessels moving across the Atlantic, so there were no ships to ferry the passengers to. That leaves the Californian, which not only had its radio operator already go to bed, she was also sitting there with cold engines. Steam engines are not like your car, you can't just turn the key and go, they have to heat up for an hour - at minimum. Even if she had gotten the distress call at the 47-minute mark, the Californian probably wouldn't have made it in time to significantly contribute to the rescue of people.
@@SRFriso94 yes. She had far too short amount of lifeboats for Al passengers but legally she was not underequipped
Both men spoke with such passion, it was so riveting and engaging! Phenomenal as always you guys
Mind you, I have not seen all of the documentaries on UA-cam, but of the several hundred I HAVE seen, this is the most complete and unbiased account of an historic event. What's more, there isn't one iota of "click bait" anywhere to be seen! Excellent!
Have you watched the National Geographic Special with James Cameron where they revisited the 1997 movie and updated some of their conclusions with newer evidence?
I was told about the titanic when I was 7 and I’ve been obsessed ever since!
You can almost learn something new every time you research it!
I heard once that the iceberg that sunk Titanic may have ‘turned turtle’ - that is, the underwater portion had melted to the point to where it became top-heavy and it rolled over. This would have given the iceberg a darkish blue translucent surface, as opposed to the bright white surface we normally think of when we envision an iceberg. Such an iceberg would be even harder to see on a moonless night on calm seas than a snowy white one.
You are correct this is know as a blue or black berg. However most people know that the first 6 compartments were damaged by the iceberg ( the Forepeak, #1 and 2 holds, the mail room, boiler rooms 6 and 5). But what a lot researchers don’t know is that there was actually 7 compartments damaged by the berg. When an iceberg is floating in the ocean it slowly rotates due to the current and its shape, during the daytime one section of the berg receives more solar radiation than the other side so due to this melting an iceberg’s center of gravity is changed so much that it capsized. On the night of the disaster a section of the iceberg that was weakened by the sunlight was on the side that the Titanic grazed. It’s well documented that the collision not only vibrated the Titanic as some of the passengers reported that the ship seemed to be vibrating (which some believed she has thrown a propellor blade which was very common in those days as the blades were bolted to the hub of the propellor whereas today they are cast in one solid piece) but what this vibration actually did was to loosen a section of the iceberg ( that was weakened by the sunlight earlier) beneath the Titanic's keel. This section of ice broke off and rapidly ascending to the surface struck the Titanic's keel plates in the area of Boiler Room#4 which damaged the plates allowing water to seep into the boiler room. I remember reading in Walter Lord's book A Night To Remember that one of the surviving workers reported that he saw water coming not from the side of the ship but up from the floor plates. This tells me that the iceberg did a lot more damage to the Titanic than what was originally thought. But the exact nature of this damage to the keel plates of Boiler Room #4 will never been known as it sits in the mud just ahead of the separated hull section where she split in two just before sinking.
Maybe. I read a book written by a survivor and he had an interesting observation. Even on deck awaiting transfer to a lifeboat he couldn't see the iceberg, once in a lifeboat could make out not only the iceberg that the ship had struck but also many others - from sea level they were big black masses that blocked out the stars. Visible only because they blocked the light from the stars. One of the recommendations that came from the Titanic survivors group was to place spotters at the water line in areas where icebergs were present.
I've not heard this, very interesting!
I'd heard that, as well. It was a series of events and really rotten luck that sank the Titanic.
It was also a dead calm night, leaving no wake or wash lapping against the side of the berg.
Very interesting. A theory is that the berg Titanic hit was a dark berg. It had just recently rolled, which all bergs do as they slowly melt and their center of gravity changes. But, when they do, the part that was underwater is a very dark blue. They are really beautiful, but nearly invisible at night. The real tragedy is that they had time to begin swinging to port before the collision. Had she hit head on, she would've crumpled her bow, but not sunk. In fact, she probably wouldn't even have gone down by the head much.
A genuinely absorbing and interesting review of the Titanic disaster. Fantastic!
My review would be: "steerage was more comfortable than on other ships. Food was decent. Lively parties with good music. Ship sinking detracted from the experience. Iceberg collision felt avoidable. Crew was efficient and professional but it seemed like the lifeboats could've accommodated more people. ⭐️⭐️ out of 5."
@@cleverusername9369 💀!
@@cleverusername9369 Like it. 😅 Be sure to consult Trivago for your next trip through the icefields.
He is very knowledgeable. Though one thing that he does need to be corrected on is that white star line never claimed to be unsinkable
I live in Southampton and have been interested in the Titanic for years. This was fascinating and I would love to meet Tim, I think I could chat about the Titanic and the Edwardian era for hours!
Me, too. Titanic and the Edwardian Era. If I could, I would live in that Era. When I was young, my parents would take me to a friend's house. This house was an Edwardian time capsule. For some reason I found it familiar and comforting. They even had an Edwardian toaster.
However, I have seen no evidence that Capt. Smith was attempting to race the Hawke. It was more likely that the suction from the much-heavier liner pulled the Hawke into the Olympic's side.
Southampton born and bred and remeber going to the museum when u was in school, the fantastic monument across from the war memorial. Told many stories growing up.
I thought his analysis was 70% correct, he needs to learn more
@@willbradshaw6157 arter century
@@willbradshaw6157 your credentials are?
I’ve always heard that if they’d just ran into the iceberg head on, it wouldn’t have sank. I also heard that the fact that they slowed down in order to miss the iceberg made the lose momentum and actually made them hit it as well. I wonder if those are true?
I’m so glad you mentioned the weather, i saw a great documentary about it where they looked at meteorological archives and recreated the mirage. Wild
So many things I didn't know! I was delighted to have learned new information today. Thank you so much!
That's a fascinating interview! Thank you, Dan and Tim Maltin, for sharing your knowledge!
This was such a pleasure to watch. Thanks for this!
The expert he interviewed is really awesome to listen to. I personally knew a lot of the stuff he said, but he added a lot more information that I did not know about. I am not even done with video.
1 fact that i did not hear him say yet is that Olympic was trying to rescue the passengers of Titanic, but Olympic was asked to stay away because the rescuing captain was worried about the mental effect on passengers seeing a ship that is almost identical to Titanic show up.
Olynpic didnt try, it couldnt, Olympic was in NY when Titanic sank, it was 2 days away, but they asked the carpathia a ship from Cunard to Ismay if he wanted the Olympic to meet them half way to then take the survivors to new york, and its when Ismay said that no because it could be disturbing for passengers, they asked that because The carpathia was on its way to europe when they went to rescue Titanic survivors.
This is the best documentary and interview I have seen in years.
I knew myself that it would have been impossible to save everyone on Titanic by lifeboats since they were told the ship was unsinkable.
One key fact I read recently was that it was a fire in the coal storage room that could have weakened the steel.
If that was true, the ship would have been vonerable already before the journey had begun.
Are you American??
@@pod9538 No. I'm norwegian.
After Titanic sank, 3 new safety laws were passed: 1) enough lifeboats for all passengers, 2) wireless on all night and 3) lifeboat drills required
None of which would've helped titanic
@@dylancloud97 actually it would. Yes she will sink but more people saved
@@dylancloud97 correct. The time it took to prepare and launch the boats is what did Titanic no good. Britannic got over 1038 off in an hour,when they improved the davits and winches three years later .
@@dylancloud97 the wireless rule would have meant the California would have responded correctly to the distress call as the operators were asleep at the time since titanic just yelled at them to shut up. given the timeline of the sink, she would have been there within an hour (not long enough if a few tons of coal hadnt been moved). instead, no one was monitoring and the conditions made it impossible to see the distress rockets. instead a much further ship had to come running.
Excellent stuff. One of the first rules of crisis management (and one of the hardest to grasp) is realising the gravity of a situation in a timely way. Yes, this IS happening and we MUST do something.
captain smith also redirected titanic further south than the course it was in before to prevent ice
I've read all the books except Charles Lightoiler's. It was my understanding that the White Star never actually said the ship was unsinkable. That came from a trade magazine called " The Shipbuilder" that stated the watertight compartments render the ship practically unsinkable. Very interesting video and you have another subscriber.
Do you by chance know the title of the first big book he held up?
The "unsinkable" attribute also wasn't exactly new or unique. German shipping companies used the same wording to advertise their luxury vessels around this time, too.
But they were not watertight compartments they were open at the top
@@isabellavalencia8026 I didn't name them; I was quoting from a British trade magazine called " The Shipbuilder". They were open above the waterline. They worked on the RMS Olympic.
While it is true that the White Star Line never specifically stated that the ships were just "unsinkable," it was that very word that would appear throughout the construction of the ship. A brochure of Titanic and Olympic rebased in 1910 stated that "as far as possible to do so, these two wonderful vessels are designed to be unsinkable" -- Articles describing the ship in a similar fashion began to circulate around England and Ireland shortly after. This would continue throughout 1911 and into 1912. Those constructing the ship in Belfast began to pridefully promote it's "unsinkability" -- We know this through interviews with the family members of those workers such as John Parkinson, whose father was a woodworker on Titanic and recalled his father taking him down to the site and telling him how the ship could not sink. And, yes, The Shipbuilder article stating it was "practically unsinkable" was one more added layer to the belief. Additionally, the Olympic was in a collision with another ship in late 1911. It is this event that cemented the belief unsinkability in the minds of workers and the public. I'm aware that a book released in 2012 from a Professor at King's College which suggested that no one said Titanic was unsinkable until after the ship sank. This is a myth; a lie. I'm not sure if he was just trying to garner a little attention for himself by adding a "twist" to the Titanic story or if he just did shoddy work, but please keep in mind that this professor is a sociologist, not a historian. There are numerous accounts from passengers, crew, construction workers etc. that had a belief the ship was unsinkable. In fact, to give you an idea of just how strong thing belief was, if you take a look at the famous New York Times newspaper from April 16, 1912 on the left and side you'll see the headline White Star Line "Manager Insisted Titanic Unsinkable Even After Ship Had Gone Down."
My grandmother as a young girl in the 1920s sailed on the Olympic, blew me away when she told me because she never knew the connection.
oh my gosh, what an honor to sail on the Olympic.
The Olympic was really the Titanic. The two ship names were switched before the maiden sail of the Titanic.
@@dcents5458 lies
@dcents5458 the titanic was an underinsured ship and her serial number 401 is stamped on her propeller. Therefore this theory is impossible
Very well researched piece of history. Thank you, John
I love how enthusiastic Mr Maltin is.
Loved this Episode. Mr. Maltin has an impressive amount of knowledge and his presentation really pulls the listener in.
An interesting follow-up would be a description of how misfortune hounded some of the survivors. There were suicides, illnesses, divorce and accidents such as the car accident that took the life of survivor Douglas Spedden when he was nine years old in 1915.
This is all really fascinating stuff, but I think the most important question Dan asks here is around the 18 mins mark. "How do you sift through the myth and reality...?" In other words, what makes what you are saying reliable? Why should I believe you? If more people asked these questions, there'd be a lot less myth about the Titanic, and everything else come to think about it. This is excellent.
Excellent video! super knowledgeable and very interesting throughout!
"Knowledgeable" not by all accounts.....
lol... This is awesome. Talking about Titanic has been a big part of my job for close to 20 years. I usually rip Titanic videos on youtube, and have gotten into more than a few heated discussions on the subject. This video is my vindication. It's the first one I've seen that talks about the things I do on my tours, and what I've said in a lot the aforementioned heated discussions. I'm lovin' this...lol.
How he described why it was the perfect storm made 100% sense and gave me chills. They had no chance, so sad.
That’s some veryyyyy sweeping statements about Third Class passengers...
I think the most important thing in Titanic discussions is to acknowledge context, who’s account your going off, their biases, their misconceptions, press bias, human recollection problems. There’s so many factors at play in the Titanic disaster, sweeping statements about anything other than the hard facts that have provable evidence are problematic.
I admire this mans enthusiasm but ones own enthusiasm shouldn’t be put forth as a true representation.
Dan asks why Titanic still holds such gravitas with people today and I think it’s purely that there’s so much we will just never know for sure.
Many of the Third class passengers who died were foreign as well and had trouble reading of understanding English.
English sentiments towards foreigners wasn’t that good in the past so I’m sure this didn’t help either when it came to English stewards in a panic trying to direct people who are also in a panic and not understanding the steward, or reading signs on where they were and where to go.
And also reports of many of the gates not being unlocked out of negligence, the gates weren’t simply opened up, they had to be unlocked with a key by a person and many were missed.
It’s so weird hearing him so confidently just brush aside known facts
Thanks so much for this video, loved it!
A very well done piece. Two very engaging fellows. Thank you.
As I recall, Whitestar Lines never claimed that she was unsinkable - that was the media. Headlines were always designed to grab the attention and reporters have always exaggerated in order to generate interest and sell papers.
I’m such a titanic nerd and this was seriously awesome to watch, I didn’t want it to end!
Great video, very informative. Tim obviously knows his stuff and conveys it well.
Brilliant vid History Hit. The passion on show is so engaging
HMS Hawke the ship that collided with Olympic was designed to ram other ships if I recall correctly. The fact that Olympic did not go down is a testament to how powerful it was.
True, she was an old protected cruiser with a Ram bow. That said, she was only moving at 8 knots at the time of the collision. Even so, despite what others would wrongly claim, the damage to Olympic was not severe. Certainly, claims about damage to her keel were entirely false.
Ironically, the Olympic was known by the nickname "Old Reliable" for her service during WW1.
Note on the gates: No. They weren't used how you're imagining, at all. The black bostwick gates were used to block off crew areas, often quite far down on G, F, and E deck, and for the lifts of course and other such things. Blocking people, such as third class, from going up designated third class stairwells is fantasy. Often, they were blocked behind a locked door or simply neglected to death, many of course didn't speak English.
This, no lower class passengers were deliberately blockaded. That's a myth from that awful film
@@Stettafire Indeed.
They weren’t neglected in third class on the Titanic - it was considered quite comfortable and well ahead of other ships. Check out the Tasting History “Titanic week” for information, including photos of accommodations and menus (unlike most ships, which required third-class passengers bring their own food, Titanic provided meals).
@@khills Not what I meant. By neglected, I mean they weren't helped. If you're a steward, and you're told to help get passengers out on deck, who do you help, the Irish family of five or the non-english speaking pair. Translation was impossible.
@@historyarmyproductions A quick look at the survival numbers per class, broken down by nationality, proves this wrong.
Fantastic interview. His enthusiasm had me locked in for the entire thing.
With regard to the Titanic sinking on an even keel instead of capsizing, it's far more credible to give the credit to the engineers on Titanic during the disaster who deliberately allowed the water into certain sections to keep the keel balanced than it being "uniquely" engineered that way, "better than modern ships like the Costa Concordia". Also. the Titanic was an OCEAN liner, not a cruise ship, very different types of vessels, so a bit of a redundant comparison.
For reference, watch the National Geographic special with James Cameron and how they revisited the Titanic(1997) movie and update their conclusions based on newer evidence. Like how the ship broke in half and how the two pieces plummeted to the ocean floor.
I believe it is called counterflooding.
I agree with your comment, but ‘redundant’ is the wrong word here. It doesn’t mean what you think it means.
so for titanic there is little evidence of counter flooding, but something did create a counter balance. throughout the journey, a bunker fire was being fought on the starboard side. the way these fires were handled was unload the coal, douse it down, and load it back on the other side. as a result something like 15 tons of coal had moved from starboard to port, giving her a 3 degree list to port. when the iceburg struck the starboard side, she gained a list to starboard, but never to the point of danger and the ship eventually got back on an even keel before the breakup. If you run the calculations without the movement of coal, you find what the chief engineer found that night: they had about an hour before the ship rolled over and sank. but due to this moved coal, she took almost 3 instead.
@@trinalgalaxy5943 Damn you beat me to it, I didn't read your comment...
@@user-lv7ph7hs7l haha thats funny. Its hard to imagine how much worse the disaster could have been if that little bit of random counterweight had not been moved. A fire people like blaming for the sinking (despite none of their evidence actually being situated correctly for the fire) saved lives and bought time... time the California wasted.
Titanic wasn't actually considered to be "unsinkable". The white star line advertised it as being "practically unsinkable" or "as safe as humanly possible". Even the designers at white star knew it was possible for the ship to sink
Excellent video. He is incredibly knowledgeable on this subject. Really cool to see someone talk so enthusiastically about their interests
Excellent content! Thank you!
As much as I enjoyed the video, I am skeptical that captain smith was trying to race a Royal Navy vessel. Based on what I’ve read the Hawke tried to overtake the olympic but got sucked in and rammed it.
Agreed I have been studying the ship, her people and the sinking for over 25 years and have seen no evidence that Smith tried to race the Hawke. Also another thing they got wrong was that the White Star Line called the Titanic unsinkable. That was done by the press.
There was no 'racing.' Hawke's captain stated that she was moving at eight knots at the time. Neither was Smith in command at the time, as Olympic was in the hands of a Southampton Harbour Pilot.
@@harrietharlow9929 The White Star Line did say in a brochure from 1910 advertising the two new ships Olympic and Titanic "as far as it is possible to do, these two wonderful vessels are designed to be unsinkable." They didn't say it as an absolute, but what they were saying was that it was a very strong and safe ship.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 that’s true, I forgot about the harbour pilot
you’re right. tim is absolutely incorrect on that. the reasons for that collision were well-documented. olympic wasn’t even under the control of smith at the time, but was under the control of a harbor pilot.
Think I would've loved this guy as my history teacher lol
I’ve been learning about the titanic ever since I was around 5-6 years old because I’ve always been interested in it. Now at 22, still learning new things, this is a really good video. Gonna have to read some of those books!
I love Dan's videos! I really looked forward to them during the height of lockdown
This is outstanding! I love Mr. Maltin's enthusiasm, and holy moly does he have detailed knowledge about Titanic. Thank you for dispelling some of the most obnoxious and persistent myths, which amount to people in 1912 being complete dummy wummies.
Really excellent video! 🤘🤘
8:23 The third ship was named "Britannic". It always was that way. It was the name always used on the official Harland & Wolff documents for Hull #433, being used as early as June of 1911.
While there was an advertisement for Britannic being named "Gigantic", it wasn't an official Harland & Wolff/White Star Line made advertisement. It was more or less an unofficial guess by some company that wanted to get the attention of readers.
From what I've heard Gigantic was the planned name, but by the time building of the third ship started the name was officially settled on as Britannic.
@@justinlynch3 nope, Britannic was always the planned name, as it was meant to be patriotic, saying that the Britons are as strong, and powerful as the Olympians, and Titans.
@@GB_GeorgeF - Whatever the motivation, the first records at H&W (notably prior to the "Titanic" disaster) regarding the third ship of the class refer to her as "Britannic". It may be that White Star did consider "Gigantic" initially, but reconsidered; not as a reaction to the disaster, but for other reasons - it's worth noting that at least one prior White Star ship had the name "Britannic", and that both White Star and Cunard considered the German lines their primary competitors.
@@turricanedtc3764 THis was the thied ship to bear the Name Britannic
Briliant video. New insights and didn’t feel like 25mins at all :)
Great that you did this vid with such an interesting enthusiastic guest such as this fellow, bravo!👏🏻😁🇺🇸
I'm surprised he didn't mention how because the sea was so calm they wouldn't be able to see the sea lap against the base of the icebergs as well. Good video though.
I'm so glad that there are people in the world like Tim Maltin
Thank you, this has been so interesting!!!
Always a joy listening to someone talk about something they're passionate about, had no idea their was so much i didn't know
Great video. The end point made in the video reminds me of a fantastically haunting verse from Thomas Hardy’s “Convergence of the Twain”:
“And as the smart ship grew
In stature, grace, and hue
In shadowy, silent distance
Grew the iceberg too.”
I enjoyed how enthusiastic this fellow was in his presentation.
That said, as someone who has studied Titanic for most of my life, he said a fair amount that was either skewed, or just flat out wrong.
His take is certainly a unique one, but some of it isn’t accurate/true.
Agreed! I was especially surprised by his absolute dismissal of the disproportionate deaths of 3rd class passengers. Talk about sweeping generalisations!
that was really interesting. good post!
Very informative and interesting
Great video 👍
White Star Line never said Titanic was unsinkable. The press labeled her practically unsinkable
Made little difference in the end
And Harland and Wolff said it was as unsinkable as they could make her.
The stories are very interesting, but more than that: this guy is doing a GREAT job telling it, and boy, is he having fun telling them.
Loved this video!
Amazing.
What an incredible story and incredible historian. So glad I came across this video.
Such a fascinating video told with such enthusiasm.
In the beginning, no one wanted to get in the lifeboats because they felt that the ship would not sink. Only the young and adventurous were willing to get into the lifeboats. This explains why there were young men in the first lifeboats. On one side of the ship, men were allowed to enter the lifeboats. On the other side, the "women and children first" rule was more strictly enforced. The lifeboats that were launched were not filled to capacity, causing unnecessary deaths. The lifeboats were supposed to come back and pick up more passengers, but they did not. It is ironic that after being involved in a collision on the Olympic, Captain Smith was given the command of a ship that was ultimately involved in a collision. Another irony is that many of the passengers on the Titantic originally were scheduled to sail on a different ship but were transferred to the Titantic because there was not enough coal. Even with these unexpected passengers the Titantic still did not sail fully booked.
I was hoping he would talk about the idea that the bunker fire weakened the steel hull enough so that it was weaker that it really was. that one annoys me because if the berg had sliced through 4 other compartments before reaching the coal bunker, it wasn't magically gonna stop. Plus bunker fires don't burn hot enough to warp, bend, or severely compromise the rigidity of the betal bunker
I suspect that, in so short a video, discussion of Molony's nonsense might have given the idea of a bunker fire weakening the hull a spurious credibility that it really doesn't deserve. For the same reason, I suppose, that he didn't mention the loons who claim Titanic & Olympic were switched.
Such an insightful watch!
I think the fact that Titanic was missing for so many years added to the appeal.
I grew up in Halifax long before she was discovered and it was always part of our collective memory.
when he talks about the lifeboats and that the ships follow a busy shipping lane, he forgets to mention that in April 1912 there was a National Coal Strike and those shipping lanes was a lot quieter than usual, Titanic had to take coal from other White Star ships for her maiden voyage
Yep, it’s interesting to read stories of how several Titanic passengers had originally booked passage on other ships but were swapped to Titanic because of the coal strike.
It was still quite busy. So busy that multiple ships were close by. SS California was about 10 miles away- 24 hour radio watch would have largely prevented the Disaster.
@@MrChickennugget360 agreed, 24hr Radio or even none at all on some ships as Marconi was in its infancy
He “forgets” a lot of things that go against his “debunkings”.
Interesting and informative but I have issues with his conclusions. There are many unfortunate events that led to the disaster.
Fantastic information, thank you.
I was hoping that the biggest question, potentially biggest myth of all, was not addressed: namely that the Titanic was not the Titanic at all, but the Olympic switched to be in its place.
I presume that anyone with any actual knowledge of Titanic & Olympic would simply ignore the switch claims for the nonsense that they are. Really not worth wasting any time on them.
The 97 movie was a great movie, but it taught a lot of people a lot of nonsense that has done a lot of damage. If you want a forensics book to read about the Titanic based on evidence and testimony from the time, read the book on a sea of glass
My father worked on her wood panelling in the woodworking shop. I as a child member the stories from my fathers friends of the building of the Olympic class. He was involved with all three. I am glad you did this myth busting as I get fed up with the conspiracy theories as I am fed up fighting with others to get the truth out.
Shit, you're father was a young man in 1912? That means you must be in your 90s or 80s.
@@ricopaulson1 , My Dad was born in 1896 and I was late into the world in 47. I had the experience of hearing about the Titanic era as well as both first and second World War from meeting and listening to my father's friends. I was interested in history and kept notes of some of those stories. I also got to know their children who inherited artifacts from the period including mementos of all three sister ships.We still keep in touch. My father passed away after working to the age of 83 and walked 3 miles a day until his final year. I still have his boxes of woodworking tools which he used from his apprenticeship. My Uncle went to sea in the early days of the 20th century under sail and was a Captain by the end of the second World War . He lived until his 90s and I have happy memories of his house and souvenirs of his years of service. I have several bits and pieces which came from those days which I will pass on to my own children Unfortunately none directly of Titanic. I do have a watercolour of Olympic leaving Belfast after her repair, painted by one of my Mother's family and a White Star linen tablecloth which could have come from any of the three but know others who made apprentices pieces that are replicas of actual pieces which were made for the Olympic class ships and plans which were passed to supervisors for work and retained as souvenirs.
That's amazing. I wondered if your father had you late. That's awesome you can personally touch history that has been forgotten by so many as they have left this world decades and decades ago. Thanks for sharing.
Very informative video. Story of Britannic would be also quite interesting
Great video and presenter - lots of very interesting information.
Regarding the amount of life boats carried, I have always been told it was based on the ships tonnage of the ship, so the largest ships at the time would have had enough boats. But the Titanic was so much larger the minimum amount of boats carried had not been adjusted, so it still only had to carry what the largest normal ship had to, like a tax bracket. Also there was something about them cluttering up the decks, but as you stated, the lifeboats were not meant to hold all the passengers, just ferry them from the sinking boat to another ship.
yes and no, no ship of that time had enough boats for all people aboard, like you say and we hear in the video, not only for Titanic but any other ship, the boats porpouse was to ferry people from one ship to the other, in those time they werent even called lifeboats, the design was pretty bassic on all ships, those boats were not safe to be on open sea, much less survive, any other thing that a calm lake like sea would pose a danger for the stability of those boats. Thats another reason why not only 3rd class, but also 1rst and 2nd class didnt want to get on the boats at first, causing that many were lauched half full. People knew that, there had been many cases of ships were many people died on the boats, it happened to SS Penguin and SS Valencia, on both cases, ALL women and children were evacuated from the sinking ship... and in both cases ALL of them died, while most the men that stayed on the sinking ship were able to survive. thats why the number of boats were not important back then.
This was very interesting, thank you, especially about the reference books and the inquest documentation, very important.
I'm a little disappointed you didn't discuss Ismay and the negative legends circulating around his actions, many of which have been disproved. I hope that in the future, you may go a bit into that.
He speaks of crews’ pride of Captain Smith sliding his ship into dock; I once spoke with a man who was engine room stationed on a U.S. Destroyer in the 30’s. His job was to scribble down each of the commands sent down from the Bridge. He said there could be as many as twenty speed/direction changes in a minute.
That was incredibly well done!
4:10 I think the 40 ton piece of titanic the says he has seen must also be a myth, as only a 20 ton fragment was recovered in 1998 and that was cut into two pieces, one the “Big Piece” was of 15 ton.
Ton means the same as in 2,000 but here im sure he means kilos where youre thinking of lbs
Excellent video. The guy you were talking to was extremely knowledgeable on the subject and had numerous bits of information that I had never heard before. I am curious what his thoughts would be on the theory that White Star Lines had switched the Olympic and Titanic after Olympic's collision with the intention of sinking it to receive the insurance money. Just to clarify, I'm not convinced that such a switch happened or the White Star intentionally sank the ship sailing under the name Titanic, but I have researched the theory a bit and I must admit there are some interesting coincidences that make it seem possible. It is because of these coincidences that I would love to hear someone so knowledgeable weigh in on the theory.
I suspect his response to the 'switch' theory would be similar to that of anyone who has done much more than simply view a switcher video and accept it unquestioningly. Amusement and laughter.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 As I said, I don't really believe the switch theory, but I do find a couple of the coincidences to be interesting. I am not among those who accept it without question (or even at all), I just find it intriguing.
Excellent video!
Excellent discussion gentlemen. Thank you.
Technically she didn’t sink on an even keel. She did have a slight list to port when she sink. Also, White Star never advertised her as being unsinkable. That was a claim that was made by the Shipbuilder Magazine.
She did go down on an even keel once the water hit the bridge. She began to level out.
@@crazyguy_1233 during the sinking. The port side entry door was opened and never closed. It is estimated that more water entered through this door than from the iceberg damage.
@@michaelbatte4777 I know. But she did level out in the end.
They promoted the Olympic class as practically unsinkable
@@crazyguy_1233 I know I am a little bit late to the conversation but personally I believe that she could have had a stronger list to port than her vertical list.
Very interesting video. I think Tim was correct in some aspects that Titanic was mostly as safe as any ocean liner today. However, he did leave out a key architectural shortfall that largely contributed to Titanic’s fate…and that was the idea of “transverse bulkheads.” There were bulkheads, but they only extended a few decks up from the keel, and not the entire width and height of the ship. Because of this design flaw, the water was allowed to flow freely throughout parts of the ship and accelerated the sinking. Let me know what you think, Dan.
A counterpoint: the transverse bulkheads helped Titanic stay afloat longer. Compare her 2.5 or so hours of sinking with Lusitania’s 18 minutes; Lusitania had longitudinal bulkheads which kept the flooding confined to one side of the ship, contributing to her keeling over almost immediately. The same happened with numerous other ships, such as three cruisers which were sunk in a few minutes each in 1914 as their longitudinal bulkheads quickly created a severe list, hastening the sinking. That said, all those ships were torpedoed, which obviously is a very different scenario from Titanic and her iceberg.
You’re definitely right about Titanic’s bulkheads not going far enough up, though.
that was not a shortfall, the bulkheads reached at least a couple of decks above the water line, thats why the ship could only survive with the first 4 compartment flooded, because whater wouldnt reach above the top of the lowest bulkhead.
Absolutely fascinating. And would love to see more of Tim
Great stuff 👍🇬🇧
Some of the pictures are mislabeled. The image of the mighty propellers at 6:31, captioned as Titanic's, are actually Olympic's. Titanic had a three-bladed central propeller. Also, the image at 10:28 is most definitely NOT Captain Smith.
Britannic, from what I've read, was never officially named Gigantic. She was always meant to be named Britannic.
For the most part, I agree with the statement about why more third class died compared to first. I'll add a few other factors, such as safety in the ship until it was too late, unfamiliarity with the upper decks, and lack of time to ascend to the boat deck. A lot of the earliest boats were launched half-full because people were incredibly resistant to boarding the lifeboats when the ship seemed safe. Confidence in the ship was fairly universal until the listing was so great no one could ignore it anymore, and by that point, it was too late for most.
Were there really that many gates? I know third class wasn't locked below like in the movies, but in most sources I've seen and read, the gates were mostly in crew areas and separation between passenger classes was done with short gates, ropes, and locked doors as those were more sightly. The grand staircase was connected to Scotland Road with one such emergency door.
As a titanic expert myself who has researched titanic for a very long time I agree with everything apart from the Gigantic part.
How there is no concrete evidence it’s very likely Britannic would of been called Gigantic. Mostly because white star did consider using the name for other vessels but decided not too
However you need remember the Olympic class was a class of Chios never done before therefore white star wanted names they never used as we seen them in Olympic and Titanic so more than likely the 3rd ship would of Been called Gigantic
The Name Britannic came from on of their older ships what was considered some what one of white star most popular ship in the time it served more than likely they named Gigantic this to ease public opinion.
I think the name Gigantic was considered as a a name for the third ship as each ship was slightly bigger then the other 'sister'. But for the most part I think the ships were named as numbers until the full name was picked out. But Gigantic and others were dropped after the Titanic sinking. And a better sounding name like Britannic was chosen. Gigantic was picked up on by historians as a point to bring up how the company felt about these ships before and after the Titanic sank.
Good comments, thanks. It is possible that Gigantic may have been considered very early on as the Olympians, Titans and Giants all come from mythology and were larger than life. But Britannic was officially named well before the Titanic sank and never had another name.
You are correct about the gates. The type of gate he describes was only used in the victualing areas to keep people out of the food stores. There was no path to safety through those areas.
Britannic was always meant to be the name of the third Olympic class ship, as well as being named for a previous, successful liner, it was meant to be patriotic, signifying that the Britons are as strong, and powerful as the Olympians, and Titans.
@@GB_GeorgeF - I'm not sure if "signifying that the Britons are as strong, and powerful as the Olympians, and Titans" was the intent - however I wouldn't be surprised if the choice of name was intended to represent the genteel equivalent of a middle finger to the German lines considered by White Star to be their primary competition. It's worth noting that Hamburg-Amerika Line's SS Imperator was soon set to claim the "largest ocean liner" crown from Titanic had the latter survived.