They could have changed Transfusion without butchering it. Change it so the vacuum only hits two players. Change it so if it vacuums the cooldown is increased by 50%. Change it so once someone is teleported by transfusion they can’t be teleported again for 100 seconds. They butchered it and didn’t give us anything back in return to balance the loss.
So... basically make it even more complicated and difficult to balance? You are already more or less deleting it, just taking a windier path to get there so what's the point.
If they'd have to severely restrict it then might as well get it axed properly. Though it is impressive that there's nothing to make up for losing a major quirk of the class. Then again, who knows, it's not like they never walk back on their decisions.
So far every video from the "big" GW2 content creators I've watched has agreed removal of the teleport is a tremendous hit to Heal Scourge across all game modes with nothing being given in return to balance the loss.
Imagine if they change harb's quickness trait where it will also allow elixir type skills to apply quickness. and they give necro a heal rifle that have elixir type buttons from 2-5. then change the "Elixir = Prot" trait into "Blight Stacks = Healing Power (heal allies when you gain blight stacks)" I dunno it sounds stupid but I really just want healbinger to be a real thing.
Dagger would work since Blood Magic is thematically aligned with healing and they already made Dagger more of a sustain weapon. Just make it focused on the team instead of just the Necro.
cal has proven to be a very bad balance lead. They are ruining the classes this game has grown with. Completely changing them isn't balance, it is a mass ongoing rework which will force long time players out.
I'm glad I'm taking a break from game. Maybe when I come back they will fix this s. Spent a lot of time setting up heal scourge and was happy I could finally fill all roles on my necro.
It's still a good heal alac and will be used in a lot of fights with high outgoing damage, transfusion was helping learners out a lot in content and I guess ANet didn't like that for some reason. 🤷♂
@@glebko123 ??? I'm curious to know what makes you think like this. Are you just trying to be contrarian? Or you genuinely believe that? If so, please explain how watching a raid/strike fight on the ground is a better learning experience than actually participating in the mechanics?
@@glebko123 Gatekeeping content behind a “either know it or watch from the sidelines” mentality would kill the game. I play GW2 because it’s NOT sweaty, and very inviting to new players
You guys praised Cal as he decimated Mesmer. You supported Cal's annihilation of boonstrip. You all downplayed the cancer that is boonball. You antagonized us for using the word homogeneous. But now you feel it, don't you? Cal doesn't nerf. He decimates
Guess what y'all Heal Scourge isnt dead! The loss of transfusion won't stop me from playing scourge and healing everybody in fractals! And to anyone else who loves scourge, go play it, don't listen to Teapot, or anyone else that says the spec is gonna die, not even yourself because scourge is still good, and the loss of some low range teleport skill does NOT make it worth your time and passion to ditch your favorite class and go learn some other class that you don't care about and will never love! Go play scourge!
"its not dead i just refuse to play it despite its very reason to be used is gone now. WHAT? nobody will accept me in a group now anymore well I solo then. SEE no need to port downed people when i am alone and failing myself alone HJAHAHAHAHAHAH"
How to save scourge. Let me introduce you to WoW Bloodlust. A game breaking buff of 30% haste for your entire group for 40 seconds. Spells and melee actions, 30% faster.Tthat was thought to trivialize some content. How was it fixed. Timers. While the skill was a 5 minute cool down. The benefits it imparted also put up a 10 minute debuff that prevents people from benefitting from the Bloodlust Haste while the debuff was active. Transfusion puts up a debuff, sand exhaustion, Can't be displaced by Transfusion for 1 or 2 minutes. TLDR Give people a 1 or 2 minute debuff where they can't be pulled in. Fixed in PVE. Other game modes. Only pulls the one person. That person still gets the debuff. Fixed.
One of the biggest issues with changes like these is that they gut something like transfuse and don't compensate it with some sort of equal replacement or alternative leaving you with an overall negative. It's poor manners.
The WvW whiners caused both the Scourge nerf and the removal of Cele. Now watch them cry that they are in a dead game mode, because nobody wants to play there (especially newbies now). All the do is complain.
Thank god I’m so excited for quick catalyst. I really want to play quickness as ele and only Cata can do that but it’s a struggle to maintain. Can’t wait! Thanks Teapot!!
Even if this is only a preview of future changes, the devs have to know that many people will be unhappy about the nerfs to HealScourge. I was unhappy about the big nerf last year, and the same goes for these changes. How many times do we need to ask them not to mess up a class? I'm not going to play GW2 anymore if these changes go through. I've already left a message on the GW2 forums, and I encourage everyone else who has concerns with with the proposed changes to do the same.
I'm not a Scourge player in the slightest, but this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Don't get me wrong, I agree that Heal Scourge is really strong and maybe needs a nerf of SOME kind. But the transfusion change really rips the horn off the unicorn for the build. If sPVP/WvW were their main gripes, it should have just been changed for those modes. This feels like a change that they're making because of some data set that they're looking at (correlation vs causality), or there is a new thing coming for Necro in the far off future that can justify the change (new weapons/elite specialization?). If its the former, support players are getting shafted hard If its the latter, push this nerf back into the abyss until we see the new thing that they're introducing. You can nerf transfusion so you can have developer freedom all you want, but I think changing an ability for something we *MIGHT* be getting in another year or two is ironically short sighted
Why don't they make WvW builds the same as regular PvP? Everybody starts from the same baseline and just creates builds. So exotic vs ascended doesn't matter, crafting a full set of specific stats doesn't matter etc. I mean WvW is basically large scale PvP so I don't see a reason why not use same mechanics as regular PvP.
Not satisfied with ruining Heal Scourge on his first 'balance' attempt, cmc comes in for another kick in the head for the playstyle. cmc and roy have damaged this game.
@@Depporas Yeah, now imagine you have stats in open world and now they're totally different in other modes! Doesn't that sound good for new people who can't stat swap easily everytime they want to go into a new mode?
I think it's worth mentioning that spellbreaker in pve takes tactics now instead of defense (for spear), which means we're gonna be doing all the cleansing for our healers as well as some stab lol
It really hasn't been a necromance the skill sets never really reflected what should have been. Pets have always been very subpar and they are what makes the necromancer a necromancer. Pets should have more life tap, do more damage, for poison and blood damage, leach focused attacks. Should have it's own Fkeys set that are strictly for transfer skills wile your utilities are for undead not silly creatures, more are plague focused skills all disease and poison.
I play Tempest in a small group of people. I use Celestial for that, so i am a bit torned over the changes because this probably means i will have to swap to Minstrel which makes it totally boring and i have to ask my friends to help me kill the sentry because otherwise it take like 5 min for me to do so. I could stay in celestial and loose the concentration which give less uptime on boons, and since i am not running in a zerg it will cripple us but i am not sure how much that will be but it will be a trying period to see where this leads for me as a support player in wvw. As for using celestial for other classes in small scale wvw, well i mean the only thing that will happen is that they will swap back to trailblazer instead and run full condtions specs as they did before the celestial change, so yeah a bit torned but it is not the end of the world for me. What did surprise me is that finally Tempest get two changes that also effect small scale fights, in fact the addition of stabillity to Rebound, that is big. Rebound in small scale fights is a hit or miss thing that is really hard to predict and often you end up missing the leathal blow and when the miss happens the only thing the person/s who needed it is now downed and have fury, yay? In PvE it can be good, because everything is scripted and you just use it when a big hit is comming, in WvW and small scale yeah not so much. I am not even running it since probably years back. Tornado is often better in small scale to flip people over and push them in to defending them self. So this surprised me and if they actually add it i might swap to Rebound and use it again. The extra condicleanses on Wash the pain away also great addition for smallscale fights. Both was holy shit moments for me and i really hope they will be added.
The trait in its current state is really hard on balance, but they gotta give us something here. Option A is to play around with a less absolute change like cooldowns and target caps, but it seems like they're pretty tired of balancing around Transfusion. Option B is to try to enhance other parts of Nec's support identity, since we're not getting any compensation here and losing some identity.
When wow traded class roles for everybody can do everything. The classes went to shit. Gw2 has been doing this for some time and most classes do the same things which leaves nothing unique on playing 1 class. In the end of the day people will multiclass whether game devs take out or put back class unique roles. This is a sad change though, understandable for wvw and maybe pvp but not pve.
Engineer was the first class that I made when I came back to GW2. That character hasn't been moved since I got around to playing classes with actual ranged weapons. When rifle isn't awful in PvE, maybe I'll go back to it, but until then I don't care what buffs the class gets. I hate hammer and the 2-3 kit style of condi engineer is just tedious to me.
Frankly im glad i did not buy the expac. Because celestial was interesting for WvW but it is not META for every class nor that overpowered. You still could get raped like anyone else when getting near a glass cannon build or ranger. Totally uncalled nerf. I will just trailblaze my mesmer or necro and be an asshole for people to melt again lol.
There are a lack of versatile attribute sets, but part of what people liked about wvw over spvp was the greater variety of sets and builds and combinations while spvp is very limited and cookie cutter. The two games are very different and I hope they keep them different. Though honestly was probably a good timing retiring from wvw a few months ago.
The change to heal scourge would be reasonable if they did it for WvW only. But nerfing it in PvE? The only use Transfusion had in PvE was pulling inexperienced players back to safety and reviving them, getting them back into the learning process of raid bosses, strikes, etc. This was something bridging the gap between casual and hardcore players, and now it's destroyed. Back to the old ways of gatekeeping content from players that are going to be dead on the floor for 90% of the fights.
@@ccrazool Yeah, it's sad. We can only hope that Arenanet realizes the error of their ways and actually start using the split game modes to balance each one in a fair, fun, and satisfying way. This was such a silly nerf to do. It ONLY impacts inexperienced players and learners.
@@superleipoman It is still going to be the strongest support at Boneskinner because it covers high incoming damage scenarios well. Transfusion didn't make experienced players do more DPS, it didn't reward experienced players for making use of the downed mechanic in any way, it wasn't used to break any world records. The nerf ONLY punishes people who are still learning the game and making mistakes. People will learn the fights better by participating rather than watching from the ground feeling worthless and/or questioning if they should continue to burden their team.
Now all they need is one new set of Elite Specializations and the professions will be complete. I hope the make: Elementalists "Arcanist", with a Arcane Shroud mechanics. Warriors "Battle Master", that can swap between 3 weapons. Rangers "Shifter", that can Shapeshift into their pets. Guardians "Steward", that virtures possess an mystical companion, like ranger pets. Mesmer "Doppelganger", that fights with one long lasting clone, instead of 3. Revenant "Remnant", that allows them to stay in one legend longer. Necromancer "Wretched", that uses life force as an offhand burst ability. Engineer "Mastermind", having tool skills be more like like thief's stealing where they can survey a target and decide if they want to use an offensive or defensive strategy. I would love to see this in the next expansion. 😊
The HScourge changes feel extra bad because not only are we losing flavor/niche, there's no buff to compensate. They could have nerfed it instead but if they want to outright remove it there needs to be buffs/changes elsewhere. Top of the list would be a proper support weapon, but even buffs to utilities or traits to have better stab would be good, have WH5 give swiftness to allies, there's a number of things they could do to bring it up to parity with the other alac healers. Honestly if it gets removed and nothing else changes there no reason to play it over druid or chrono. The copium is that they say it's a design issue (why was it allowed for almost a decade then???) so they're removing it preemptively to not break the cool and awesome new encounters they're making. Right? *Huff*
I would like to see some more love for mesmer, mirage especially. They want power mirage to be a thing but do t do anything besides it except for slapping some damage on spear ambush. A buff for the top row of virtuoso traits would also be cool for open world gameplay or maybe pvp. But they definetly need to do something with mirage traits. Buffs for mainhand sword would also be nice to make it more competetive for pve
They really made scourge boring over the last few changes. Nerfing it, changing how long shades stay up, now transfusion. There is no point to this spec anymore.
To be fair support/heal scourge will be done for pve where it was used mostly for revives. Now other supports will just be used and scourge will be ghosted. For WvW it will not be a big deal and scourge still will be top or even Op
I'm actually okay with the transfusion nerf, but I'd like something neat/fun to replace it, to make taking healing scourge worthwhile. Yeah it still has the "150% HP teamates" niche but a little gimmick is nice. Druid has glyph of stars, ele has rebound. Ele have the "big aoe rez" with double geyser like necro has with well of blood so give them something fresh!
Man, what? The only thing I heard was transfusion nerf not pulling downed anymore? I main scourge, and this skill is amazing for training raids/strikes/fracs.... Please, don't do this anet. Let's upvote 👍🏻
Maybe unpopular opinion but i disagree. It's amazing for keeping people alive and get carried through instances. Would like to see it more balanced with other ressing options and instead have the barrier be its center of focus. Having it as a dmg mitigation class.
@@everythingsfine1395 Yeah for support build but for other builds no, cele was good even before they added concentration and expertise to the stat. After they added those stats it became stupidly good. I'm glad the cele changes got reverted.
@@odlfmariner470 and it also really depends on the game mode you are playing. i personally play more pve raids/strikes then wvw. and having transfusion pull players was a nice extra that made scourge a strong option for having a less experience group or more chaotic fights. but not the main reason for taking scourge as support over a druid or mech.
talking about warrior spellbreaker needing to be changed because it's in a "weird" place please be specific to pvp because anet might just believe u and bomb it in wvw and we dont need that, war is already bullied enough by literally anything that can port in wvw. Instead of nerfs just buff every other build for warrior rather than nerf when all other builds are being outshined by spell breaker.
Heal scourge will be fine, just not as broken. What they really need to do is embrace necromancer and change it to "murder downed ally and use their corpse to create a flesh golem."
Different classes and e-specs get different mileage from cele. For example, it's not great on any warrior spec but it turns harbinger into an absolute menace.
roaming dead gz anet , back to one shot builds when you get one taped by thiefs and benders , duels are mean't to be long for a fun 1 v 2 , now your duel not gonna last more than 5/10 seconds.
you can make a very viable build with hybrid stats... They just took out the «easy» option that gave too much of everything. Yould still see some power/condi burst engi and guard out there focus on burning and crit
there are only one thing dead - its staff thief, all skils trash and absolutely usless in pvp, this quality life staff changes look like a bulling of those few players who use a stick due to pain and suffering
@@brandonuzumaki yeah but this kills things like celestial scourge and firebrand, or for example celestial spellbreaker, te expertise helped with the root duration
you get more tanky with TRailblazer or shaman stats, but the boon duration and expertise was just too much. You can still make an hybrid, tbh just run full cele with Herald rune and you are good to go for power cele...
How about they move the transfusion to the active on signet of undeath? Then play with the cooldown of the aoe teleport revive and it requires a utility slot..
Transfusion port was never the reason you took scourge over other builds. You took it because of the big condi cleanse and barrier application. The only thing that will die with this change is the abillity to hard carry half a squad of incompetent players. It still stabilizes your average clear or training group. And for the straggler here and there off group, you still have signet of undeath. Yes, some other healers can do more than scourge at this point, but healscourge is still viable, especially with a pairing of quick herold. Nothing changes there. Him calling it dogshit tier makes me question if he really means it or if he is just using hyperbole. He should know why heal scorge is still really strong. The transfusion port was just fun sugar on top.
"The only thing that will die with this change is the abillity to hard carry half a squad of incompetent players." Which is literally the only reason you bring Hscg in the first place. Why would I bring a mediocre healer, when Druid and Heal Chrono exist?
@@snowdropfox5754 because you don't even need the heal power of a druid or another strong healer. The only thing in the game that can be considered a heal check is Cerus CM/LM. At that point it is just about preferred play style. Removing the port will make it less fun though.
Scourge is really sad - it's the same as when Anet proposed changing how Gyros worked on Scrapper, and they went back on that change I hope this will be the same, Nerf scourge - fine - but don't kill it, please!
Also it was a HS really helped in training groups while people were learning the mechanics - that doesn't justify it being broken, but I think a balance could be found.
Title is misleading. Heal Scourge isn't dead, it just won't be able to carry bad teams on it's back anymore. And Celestial is just reverting to what it was when it was introduced to the game. It worked just fine back then so it'll be the same now too. You forget that the game originally released without Expertise or Concentration as stats.
Scourge is dead. Every other healer can do things better than it, boons, heal output, weapon options. If the whole NECROMANCER identity of the class of being able to manipulate death states unlike every other healer, WTF is the point in playing it over the rest? Whole point of the pull was to compensate for the lack of other tools that save people, so at least if they get CCed in stuff and go down because you didn't give stability as a healer, you can save them. Now just bring a chrono, it is factually better in all ways.
I think the reason he is saying it's dead is because there is no longer any reason that anyone would pick heal scourge over any other support now, and as for celestial, yea a lot of things were different back then including power creep, dps out has more then doubled from what it was in base and Heart of Thorns so taking a set back to base is just removing it from use because it can't keep up. back then when people were using the original celestial people were also using soldier stats as the main power dps stats, so many good stat combinations came out that celestial needed to be buffed to be viable. All that being said i dont care about celestial and hated using it, i felt weak at everything instead of being at least decent at anything.
I've played several MMOs over the years and the one thing I've learned is when a dev tries to make a class standout with a unique mechanic they invariably water it down to the point that "defining" mechanic becomes meaningless. Players say they want unique mechanics, but really they want parity. "My class wasn't brought because it lacks 'x' that 'y' class has." How many times do we hear that complaint again and again?
The Hscg destruction is probably one of the best changes overall. All these times when a player complains about other players being useless and too stupid to dodge obvious mechanics, you have to realize that these players are a product of Hscg existing. Boneskinner without a Hscg is "hard", because Hscg existed. You don't learn by circumventing every mechanic, you learn by feeding to it.
You're absolutely trolling with the 'heal scourge is dead' meme. The change doesn't stop it healing, just stops the teleport that makes so much content faceroll ridiculously easy.
Scourge still has the same rezz power, and people can use f4 for the heal now instead of saving it all fight long in case someone downs, that's probably a buff to the average player xD
the only people who complained about celestial are the sweaty try hards that are just mad they cant blast them with their damage-obsessed glass cannon builds and have something that actually counters them and forces them to think or build something different.
@@honnorgaurd celestial builds are so oppressive and brain dead, it kills build diversity because why run any other stats when cele does it the best. “Forces them to think or build something different” bro cele is literally face roll builds and to fight cele you end up running cele. Yeah I love 7 minute cele v cele fights so engaging.
@@QuaggyCharroh yea and poping the same 2 skills and deleting someone with your glass cannon build or condi spam as you cloak spam away or kite around all day isnt brain dead too... cele doesnt do it "the best", it has always been the "jack of all trades, master of none". thats what made it so nice and appealing for those that dont want to spend half their college years grinding away at 5 different sets or armor and just have one versital set that doesnt do the best at any one thing but is good enough to get the job done if played right. i know this is a crazy wild concept but if youre running into a standoff, you can always just LEAVE. crazy i know but youre always going to have someone out there that your build isnt going to be most optimal against. just like cele isnt going to always be the most optimal for certain things. again, youre just mad you cant nuke them but the thing is, they may not be something you cant insta kill but they also arent going to be something that will insta kill you either unless youre rocking full glass cannon zerg. at which point obviously youre going to hate cele and be biased because it directly counters your boring generic "all or nothing" style.
@@honnorgaurd cele is too strong it’s the reason it’s in every Zerg build, plagues every roaming build because it’s extremely forgiving meaning there is low risk high reward. It is especially strong on certain builds (willbender, deadeye, harb, catalyst) that they completely shut out other build diversity or counter play.
@@QuaggyCharr wrong, wrong, and wrong again. when youre in a zerg with 20 plus people, people having cele or not isnt going to change how strong that death ball is going to be. when you have that many people poping off boons, EVERYONE is going to be unchanged by this it wont matter at all. if youre looking for balanced gameplay then go to structured pvp its called that for a reason. wvw is fundemantally never meant to be balanced its always going to be imbalanced. thats part of the fun of it. like it or not. you NEED stuff like cele in the game that make things forgiving because not everyone is a sweaty no life 12 hrs a day tryhard. here's the reality. most gamers suck and are casual. because most of us have lives and full time jobs. the point im making here is that if you have the game be nothing but super punishing builds where new players will just get demoralized and farmed because their only options are either glass cannon builds or no-damage walls, then modes like wvw are going to have ALOT less new blood join the ranks because all the new players are just not going to have any fun at all. builds like cele alow people to have fun experimenting with different builds and work their own playstyle without feeling shoe-horned into a on oppressive "meta" role and playstyle. you wanting to try and gank new players is a choice. you sticking around trying to duel a cele that your build is countered against ist a choice. expecting everyone to pick between either super tanky useless damage or unforgiving glass cannon nonesense where literally every fight just turns into a "he who gets in the first shot wins" routine.... THAT is truly oppressive and is what REALLY is killing any build diversity in the game. its because of cele that im able to have fun experimenting with literally every spec of my guardian and not feel useless while also not having to waste my time collecting 4 different gear sets taking up half my inventory. yea no thank you dude. if you hate fighting cele so much than you can do what all the rest of us do to toxic condi-cloak spamming seal clubbing thieves and just NOT ENGAGE. say whatever you want but cele builds are not what is bullying new players that we desperately need more of in wvw. its sweaty try hards with their super meta builds and gank squads that go thirstily hunting every poor sod that tries to just cap a guard post. those new players NEED stuff like cele build so they can actually stand a reasonable fighting chance to enjoy the game while they get a feel for what works for them. even -for the sake of argument- it was imbalanced, its a necessary evil for the very reason i just gave.
@@theblackspark2644 just can go cele and herald runne aint loosing much, but it does make more fair for full power user to win a fight. Trailblazer is still a very op stats that nobody play now because of cele, but it is a high tank high condi dmg build
How take: Celestial having different stats in different mode, similar to skills is a terrible idea. Imagine being relatively new and getting explain that your stats aren't the same in different mode on top of differences in skills. There must be a different way.
They should have never added those 2 stats to cele in the first place. It supercharged a set that was already strong in WvW before that. If new players get confused then they could remove the stats from PvE too but does that really matter?
When I was a new player and tried PvP, I was surprised that my throw mine did like zero damage. After learning about the quickness and alac meta, I was surpised how the trait that gives quickness didn't work when I first tried WvW. (also didn't realize that my stealth gyro's stealth duration is cut down to the single digits) So yea, changing modes was NEVER new player friendly and this wont be any different. What they should do is add an icon over traits and equipment that changes properties when you switch to PvP and WvW. Like maybe recolor the red exclamation notification to yellow and put it over traits that undergo mode specific changes, then have a tutorial pop-up to tell new players what the yellow exclamation means.
take away healingpower and toughness and tune down the overall stats. what a dumb change to celestial. remove precision even. dragon, marauder, bersi, trailbrazer,minstrel .....what variety
they themselves introduce new hybrid skills weapons builds, blabla .... cant run full burst sb rene cant run full condi sb rene. choose a lane. let pvp stay a burstfest without toughness etc. wvw is such a niche gamemode in the grand scheme, stop fuckin guys over
38 different stat combinations. and edgy guys like quaggy, SA, Hunt, AR, WUP, KIP, QQ, are all glasscannon gankers and runners. all spout the same hive mind bullshit, same as youtubers...it started somewhere :buäääh celestial bad. Fine, tune it down a bit. if a class has boons/debilitating condis, hybrid weapons, dual-use utils, heal on boon xyz how is it bad to want to get the most out of everything the class has = Celestial. You cant do a full burst, cant condioverload, so they one-tick. you do consistent damage, are a bit tankier. What's a more engaging fight for example: -*sorts invi* *recognizes healthbar* *closes invi* *dead* one shot by glasscannon -sees glasscannon approach, survives burst, counters/dodges in the right moment, goes on offensive - other guy runs a mile, OOCs - both cele lets say Harb vs Ele: Ele first burst lands, full cleanse, counterburst shroud 3 2, corrupts stability, ele cleanses, both have to think now. second weapon set ? maybe axe offhand, so he will corrupt again, fuck it ill give myself stab per aura. Nekro swaps, dagger warhorn, okay so 1 corrupt/root, reflect wont work. Ele goes on offensive..etc etc etc.. Those are the fights i like, you ENGAGE with the enemy's build and use yours to the fullest, see a little icon, "oh he runs flame expulsion", better watch for the animation when he swaps off of fire. You outplay or get outplayed. Why are there 9 traits, 9 minor traits, tons of weapons and utils, if all your fights go: port, cc, dmg, or maybe, port, dmg , stealth, dmg, disengage, stealth, dmg Longer fights stay in your memory, if you one shot a silver scout waiting for a veteran warg, for your next montage, its a clip, its just one more kill. good for you, please go to SPVP, i want longer fights, engange with enemies, get bested or dominate.
you dont get any of that if you remove tankier options, if you dont level the playing field, the devs lack of understanding will be more obvious to you. you CANT run viper vs a spec that can cleanse all conditions for the first 15 seconds of a fight (willbender) Balance has to start with classes, not stats. Everybody can use the same stats, if im stuck on virtuoso and have to have a target for my CLASS to function, i can not engage with a permastealth thief. I cant play the game, because of mechanics, it has nothing to do with stats or skill. Invis, Invulnerability, permadodging, permareflect are things, that should get looked at, not Concentration/expertise, those dont mean shit (they do, but hey, i want to make a point)
They could have changed Transfusion without butchering it.
Change it so the vacuum only hits two players.
Change it so if it vacuums the cooldown is increased by 50%.
Change it so once someone is teleported by transfusion they can’t be teleported again for 100 seconds.
They butchered it and didn’t give us anything back in return to balance the loss.
So... basically make it even more complicated and difficult to balance? You are already more or less deleting it, just taking a windier path to get there so what's the point.
Anet taking a page from the Path of Exile playbook.
If they'd have to severely restrict it then might as well get it axed properly.
Though it is impressive that there's nothing to make up for losing a major quirk of the class.
Then again, who knows, it's not like they never walk back on their decisions.
A debuff on pulled allies that they cant be pulled in the next 100 or 120 seconds should be more than enough to balance it out to be honest
So far every video from the "big" GW2 content creators I've watched has agreed removal of the teleport is a tremendous hit to Heal Scourge across all game modes with nothing being given in return to balance the loss.
"But we buffed necro axe" honestly they're a meme now
Now give us a healing/support focused weapon for necro in exchange.
Imagine if they change harb's quickness trait where it will also allow elixir type skills to apply quickness.
and they give necro a heal rifle that have elixir type buttons from 2-5.
then change the "Elixir = Prot" trait into "Blight Stacks = Healing Power (heal allies when you gain blight stacks)"
I dunno it sounds stupid but I really just want healbinger to be a real thing.
@@screemingnott I don't know if that's how you'd implement it but add a healing weapon + make give harbinger a healing trait would be so cool
Dagger would work since Blood Magic is thematically aligned with healing and they already made Dagger more of a sustain weapon. Just make it focused on the team instead of just the Necro.
Yes would love something like that, the blood splashing off your dagger hits heals surrounding allies.
Hiw about they just fix the scepter to channel and have the same speed ad a retarded pistol.
American Boneskinner got buffed
XD
cal has proven to be a very bad balance lead. They are ruining the classes this game has grown with. Completely changing them isn't balance, it is a mass ongoing rework which will force long time players out.
We also need an explanation for Extirpate. They just threw that in there thinking people were not going to notice it because of Transfusion.
That me hanic was damn good I loved it … but well i guess it was really stupid to expect the fun to stay in it
whoops there goes 90% of my wvw builds
noob
@@Darkz.- Stealth is a crutch.
oh well, back to perma stealth 1 shot builds we go... it's like we traveled back in time
Time 2 get gud
Cele is the worst thing to happen to wvw
Necromancer changes is what happens when you only design the game around balance. You lose all the uniqueness and fun that the class has to offer.
What a dumb point to make. Transfusion actively makes the game worse
@@glebko123 the same could be said about whole Guardian class
I'm glad I'm taking a break from game. Maybe when I come back they will fix this s.
Spent a lot of time setting up heal scourge and was happy I could finally fill all roles on my necro.
It's still a good heal alac and will be used in a lot of fights with high outgoing damage, transfusion was helping learners out a lot in content and I guess ANet didn't like that for some reason. 🤷♂
@@howlpendragon9728it wasn’t helping. It made people actually play worse. Next should be downstate removal in all competitive pve modes
@@glebko123 ???
I'm curious to know what makes you think like this. Are you just trying to be contrarian? Or you genuinely believe that?
If so, please explain how watching a raid/strike fight on the ground is a better learning experience than actually participating in the mechanics?
@@glebko123 Gatekeeping content behind a “either know it or watch from the sidelines” mentality would kill the game. I play GW2 because it’s NOT sweaty, and very inviting to new players
You guys praised Cal as he decimated Mesmer. You supported Cal's annihilation of boonstrip. You all downplayed the cancer that is boonball. You antagonized us for using the word homogeneous. But now you feel it, don't you? Cal doesn't nerf. He decimates
Guess what y'all Heal Scourge isnt dead! The loss of transfusion won't stop me from playing scourge and healing everybody in fractals! And to anyone else who loves scourge, go play it, don't listen to Teapot, or anyone else that says the spec is gonna die, not even yourself because scourge is still good, and the loss of some low range teleport skill does NOT make it worth your time and passion to ditch your favorite class and go learn some other class that you don't care about and will never love! Go play scourge!
"its not dead i just refuse to play it despite its very reason to be used is gone now. WHAT? nobody will accept me in a group now anymore well I solo then. SEE no need to port downed people when i am alone and failing myself alone HJAHAHAHAHAHAH"
How to save scourge. Let me introduce you to WoW Bloodlust. A game breaking buff of 30% haste for your entire group for 40 seconds. Spells and melee actions, 30% faster.Tthat was thought to trivialize some content. How was it fixed. Timers. While the skill was a 5 minute cool down. The benefits it imparted also put up a 10 minute debuff that prevents people from benefitting from the Bloodlust Haste while the debuff was active. Transfusion puts up a debuff, sand exhaustion, Can't be displaced by Transfusion for 1 or 2 minutes.
TLDR Give people a 1 or 2 minute debuff where they can't be pulled in. Fixed in PVE. Other game modes. Only pulls the one person. That person still gets the debuff. Fixed.
nothing you said is going to help it at all
@@MikePhantom Yea. You're right. And if enough people say the same thing on the forums nothing would change either. Why even breath dood.
RIP scourge , that's brutal change
my beloved scourge for WvW....
i still rather have a healscourge with wrecked transfusion then druids without a clue
100% agree with you man go play scourge!
It is rare to find a druid that actually knows what they are doing XD.
One of the biggest issues with changes like these is that they gut something like transfuse and don't compensate it with some sort of equal replacement or alternative leaving you with an overall negative. It's poor manners.
Really enjoyed being able to run my cele ele in WvW without needing a new set, sad to see it gone I'll probably play less WvW
The WvW whiners caused both the Scourge nerf and the removal of Cele. Now watch them cry that they are in a dead game mode, because nobody wants to play there (especially newbies now). All the do is complain.
Thank god I’m so excited for quick catalyst. I really want to play quickness as ele and only Cata can do that but it’s a struggle to maintain. Can’t wait! Thanks Teapot!!
Even if this is only a preview of future changes, the devs have to know that many people will be unhappy about the nerfs to HealScourge. I was unhappy about the big nerf last year, and the same goes for these changes. How many times do we need to ask them not to mess up a class?
I'm not going to play GW2 anymore if these changes go through. I've already left a message on the GW2 forums, and I encourage everyone else who has concerns with with the proposed changes to do the same.
I left after the previous changes (where they also ruined druid) - writing was on the wall
People will never be 100% happy with any change game you make to the game. That something you learn to accept
@@DemonicLemur I'm not going to put time and money into a game that isn't fun for me anymore
@@maevebelleaqua918 ok that is your right. No matter what they do people are going to do that
back to trailblaizer we go
I'm not a Scourge player in the slightest, but this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Don't get me wrong, I agree that Heal Scourge is really strong and maybe needs a nerf of SOME kind. But the transfusion change really rips the horn off the unicorn for the build. If sPVP/WvW were their main gripes, it should have just been changed for those modes.
This feels like a change that they're making because of some data set that they're looking at (correlation vs causality), or there is a new thing coming for Necro in the far off future that can justify the change (new weapons/elite specialization?).
If its the former, support players are getting shafted hard
If its the latter, push this nerf back into the abyss until we see the new thing that they're introducing. You can nerf transfusion so you can have developer freedom all you want, but I think changing an ability for something we *MIGHT* be getting in another year or two is ironically short sighted
Energy amplifier is a trait in inventions, not the damage when energy isn't full from tools
Why don't they make WvW builds the same as regular PvP? Everybody starts from the same baseline and just creates builds. So exotic vs ascended doesn't matter, crafting a full set of specific stats doesn't matter etc. I mean WvW is basically large scale PvP so I don't see a reason why not use same mechanics as regular PvP.
Take transfusion away but give us something back atleast
Nerfed Cele! How long has it been? Feels like the end of an era. Stat choices might mean something again.
Mother f, I made so many Ascended Celestial for multiple toons. If they nerf it, I'm done with the game
@@MrQuay03 it cost almost nothing to change the stats
@@MrQuay03 That's what happens when you chase the meta in a game. Eventually you get struck down.
38:43 Teapot: look how they massacred my boy
Rending Claws' 8th buff since launch, that's what it's all about
Not satisfied with ruining Heal Scourge on his first 'balance' attempt, cmc comes in for another kick in the head for the playstyle. cmc and roy have damaged this game.
they saw me enjoying cele scourge a bit too much and aimed that sniper rifle u_u
My thoughts exactly!
HS was the best thing to happen to raid/strike trainers; we will be less able to introduce new players to the game mode. That is a loss.
Just let things be fun and interesting, they have stripped the identity of so many classes over the years, and it demolishes interest in the game
Just as I buy some of my first Ascended Celestial gear for open world and WvW....
Open world remains unchanged
@@Depporas Yeah, now imagine you have stats in open world and now they're totally different in other modes! Doesn't that sound good for new people who can't stat swap easily everytime they want to go into a new mode?
@@BakedApple989you make a good point, we should just delete cele everywhere instead, I'd prefer that xD
@@BakedApple989That's how balancing works dude, celestial is still going to be fine in wvw.
@odlfmariner470 no, it will never be optimal on any build in wvw now
I think it's worth mentioning that spellbreaker in pve takes tactics now instead of defense (for spear), which means we're gonna be doing all the cleansing for our healers as well as some stab lol
Necromancer becoming less and less necromancer by the day. They destroyed transfusion and gave nothing in return.
It really hasn't been a necromance the skill sets never really reflected what should have been. Pets have always been very subpar and they are what makes the necromancer a necromancer. Pets should have more life tap, do more damage, for poison and blood damage, leach focused attacks. Should have it's own Fkeys set that are strictly for transfer skills wile your utilities are for undead not silly creatures, more are plague focused skills all disease and poison.
I play Tempest in a small group of people. I use Celestial for that, so i am a bit torned over the changes because this probably means i will have to swap to Minstrel which makes it totally boring and i have to ask my friends to help me kill the sentry because otherwise it take like 5 min for me to do so. I could stay in celestial and loose the concentration which give less uptime on boons, and since i am not running in a zerg it will cripple us but i am not sure how much that will be but it will be a trying period to see where this leads for me as a support player in wvw.
As for using celestial for other classes in small scale wvw, well i mean the only thing that will happen is that they will swap back to trailblazer instead and run full condtions specs as they did before the celestial change, so yeah a bit torned but it is not the end of the world for me.
What did surprise me is that finally Tempest get two changes that also effect small scale fights, in fact the addition of stabillity to Rebound, that is big. Rebound in small scale fights is a hit or miss thing that is really hard to predict and often you end up missing the leathal blow and when the miss happens the only thing the person/s who needed it is now downed and have fury, yay? In PvE it can be good, because everything is scripted and you just use it when a big hit is comming, in WvW and small scale yeah not so much. I am not even running it since probably years back. Tornado is often better in small scale to flip people over and push them in to defending them self. So this surprised me and if they actually add it i might swap to Rebound and use it again. The extra condicleanses on Wash the pain away also great addition for smallscale fights. Both was holy shit moments for me and i really hope they will be added.
The trait in its current state is really hard on balance, but they gotta give us something here. Option A is to play around with a less absolute change like cooldowns and target caps, but it seems like they're pretty tired of balancing around Transfusion. Option B is to try to enhance other parts of Nec's support identity, since we're not getting any compensation here and losing some identity.
Sphere Specialist trait is now also a dps increase since you probably no longer need a concentration sigil.
When wow traded class roles for everybody can do everything. The classes went to shit. Gw2 has been doing this for some time and most classes do the same things which leaves nothing unique on playing 1 class. In the end of the day people will multiclass whether game devs take out or put back class unique roles. This is a sad change though, understandable for wvw and maybe pvp but not pve.
Engineer was the first class that I made when I came back to GW2. That character hasn't been moved since I got around to playing classes with actual ranged weapons. When rifle isn't awful in PvE, maybe I'll go back to it, but until then I don't care what buffs the class gets. I hate hammer and the 2-3 kit style of condi engineer is just tedious to me.
the fuck you on about? rifle on engi is the pumper since mech.
Frankly im glad i did not buy the expac. Because celestial was interesting for WvW but it is not META for every class nor that overpowered. You still could get raped like anyone else when getting near a glass cannon build or ranger. Totally uncalled nerf. I will just trailblaze my mesmer or necro and be an asshole for people to melt again lol.
There are a lack of versatile attribute sets, but part of what people liked about wvw over spvp was the greater variety of sets and builds and combinations while spvp is very limited and cookie cutter. The two games are very different and I hope they keep them different. Though honestly was probably a good timing retiring from wvw a few months ago.
The change to heal scourge would be reasonable if they did it for WvW only.
But nerfing it in PvE? The only use Transfusion had in PvE was pulling inexperienced players back to safety and reviving them, getting them back into the learning process of raid bosses, strikes, etc.
This was something bridging the gap between casual and hardcore players, and now it's destroyed. Back to the old ways of gatekeeping content from players that are going to be dead on the floor for 90% of the fights.
I usually played healscourge in open world metas, and it was really satisfying to help people get back up and into the fight. Sad.
@@ccrazool Yeah, it's sad. We can only hope that Arenanet realizes the error of their ways and actually start using the split game modes to balance each one in a fair, fun, and satisfying way. This was such a silly nerf to do. It ONLY impacts inexperienced players and learners.
Let's not pretend that hard carrying people through boneskinner is bridging any gaps.
@@superleipoman It is still going to be the strongest support at Boneskinner because it covers high incoming damage scenarios well.
Transfusion didn't make experienced players do more DPS, it didn't reward experienced players for making use of the downed mechanic in any way, it wasn't used to break any world records.
The nerf ONLY punishes people who are still learning the game and making mistakes. People will learn the fights better by participating rather than watching from the ground feeling worthless and/or questioning if they should continue to burden their team.
I will love see guardian mace 1 skill with bleeding! This make Mace ultra nice! Hehehe
Now all they need is one new set of Elite Specializations and the professions will be complete. I hope the make:
Elementalists "Arcanist", with a Arcane Shroud mechanics.
Warriors "Battle Master", that can swap between 3 weapons.
Rangers "Shifter", that can Shapeshift into their pets.
Guardians "Steward", that virtures possess an mystical companion, like ranger pets.
Mesmer "Doppelganger", that fights with one long lasting clone, instead of 3.
Revenant "Remnant", that allows them to stay in one legend longer.
Necromancer "Wretched", that uses life force as an offhand burst ability.
Engineer "Mastermind", having tool skills be more like like thief's stealing where they can survey a target and decide if they want to use an offensive or defensive strategy.
I would love to see this in the next expansion. 😊
I like the ideas but its unlikely they add more elite specs :/
Those sound more like slight changes then elite specs
you wouldn't believe how many cerus cm runs i've saved by pulling people out of pools. rip now
The HScourge changes feel extra bad because not only are we losing flavor/niche, there's no buff to compensate. They could have nerfed it instead but if they want to outright remove it there needs to be buffs/changes elsewhere. Top of the list would be a proper support weapon, but even buffs to utilities or traits to have better stab would be good, have WH5 give swiftness to allies, there's a number of things they could do to bring it up to parity with the other alac healers. Honestly if it gets removed and nothing else changes there no reason to play it over druid or chrono.
The copium is that they say it's a design issue (why was it allowed for almost a decade then???) so they're removing it preemptively to not break the cool and awesome new encounters they're making. Right? *Huff*
A moment of Silence for Vallun and Jen LMAO!!
I would like to see some more love for mesmer, mirage especially.
They want power mirage to be a thing but do t do anything besides it except for slapping some damage on spear ambush.
A buff for the top row of virtuoso traits would also be cool for open world gameplay or maybe pvp.
But they definetly need to do something with mirage traits.
Buffs for mainhand sword would also be nice to make it more competetive for pve
They really made scourge boring over the last few changes. Nerfing it, changing how long shades stay up, now transfusion. There is no point to this spec anymore.
To be fair support/heal scourge will be done for pve where it was used mostly for revives. Now other supports will just be used and scourge will be ghosted.
For WvW it will not be a big deal and scourge still will be top or even Op
I'm actually okay with the transfusion nerf, but I'd like something neat/fun to replace it, to make taking healing scourge worthwhile. Yeah it still has the "150% HP teamates" niche but a little gimmick is nice. Druid has glyph of stars, ele has rebound. Ele have the "big aoe rez" with double geyser like necro has with well of blood so give them something fresh!
Man, what? The only thing I heard was transfusion nerf not pulling downed anymore? I main scourge, and this skill is amazing for training raids/strikes/fracs.... Please, don't do this anet. Let's upvote 👍🏻
Maybe unpopular opinion but i disagree. It's amazing for keeping people alive and get carried through instances. Would like to see it more balanced with other ressing options and instead have the barrier be its center of focus. Having it as a dmg mitigation class.
I heard they are adding a left and right hand on each side of the screen so heal scourge is no longer a hard requirement for boneskinner
Energizing Slam buff seems like more of a gift for BrawlMech Duelists than a Support thing, really.
I Just finished my scourge...
its not dead dont worry
you can pull back the dead, but still cleanse and barrier is there
@@RenevKerkhof
Its really dead
@@everythingsfine1395 Yeah for support build but for other builds no, cele was good even before they added concentration and expertise to the stat. After they added those stats it became stupidly good. I'm glad the cele changes got reverted.
@@odlfmariner470 and it also really depends on the game mode you are playing. i personally play more pve raids/strikes then wvw. and having transfusion pull players was a nice extra that made scourge a strong option for having a less experience group or more chaotic fights. but not the main reason for taking scourge as support over a druid or mech.
talking about warrior spellbreaker needing to be changed because it's in a "weird" place please be specific to pvp because anet might just believe u and bomb it in wvw and we dont need that, war is already bullied enough by literally anything that can port in wvw. Instead of nerfs just buff every other build for warrior rather than nerf when all other builds are being outshined by spell breaker.
Heal scourge will be fine, just not as broken. What they really need to do is embrace necromancer and change it to "murder downed ally and use their corpse to create a flesh golem."
Side note: everyone was having access to celestial builds, so it's not really balancing anything from that angle.
Different classes and e-specs get different mileage from cele. For example, it's not great on any warrior spec but it turns harbinger into an absolute menace.
give me alachealing aura tempest Anet I'm tired of waiting.
roaming dead gz anet , back to one shot builds when you get one taped by thiefs and benders , duels are mean't to be long for a fun 1 v 2 , now your duel not gonna last more than 5/10 seconds.
you can make a very viable build with hybrid stats... They just took out the «easy» option that gave too much of everything. Yould still see some power/condi burst engi and guard out there focus on burning and crit
It’s good that I use Marauder stats.😁👍
there are only one thing dead - its staff thief, all skils trash and absolutely usless in pvp, this quality life staff changes look like a bulling of those few players who use a stick due to pain and suffering
As a french player, i wasn't aware that we were "special" for using support vindicator. Eh
you are french. you are special regardless
i think the tankiness is the problem with celestial, if they remove either thoughness or vitality, it could work
The tankiness in Celestial comes from the bigger uptime on all boons, so this nerf will remedy that as well.
@@brandonuzumaki yeah but this kills things like celestial scourge and firebrand, or for example celestial spellbreaker, te expertise helped with the root duration
you get more tanky with TRailblazer or shaman stats, but the boon duration and expertise was just too much. You can still make an hybrid, tbh just run full cele with Herald rune and you are good to go for power cele...
How about they move the transfusion to the active on signet of undeath? Then play with the cooldown of the aoe teleport revive and it requires a utility slot..
at this point im pretty sure anet devs are just bad at the game and want to cater to noobs.
My build got nerfed with the change to plague signet, then sent to the shadow realm with this Oct 8 change.
Im glad for Scrapper buff, but god damn give me more Fury uptime on No Scope. 4s with 8s ICD feels awful.
kinda sucks to have to re-invest in new gear tho...maybe they will allow us to pay for stat change?
Support Specter 2024
Id love for someone to cook me up a rifle warrior build for PVE. I did it to level up and it was a blast. then I heard it was bad and ran away quick
Me, a celestial scourge enjoyer :O
PLEASE, kill Transfusion in competitive modes but don’t kill it in PvE.
Transfusion port was never the reason you took scourge over other builds.
You took it because of the big condi cleanse and barrier application. The only thing that will die with this change is the abillity to hard carry half a squad of incompetent players.
It still stabilizes your average clear or training group. And for the straggler here and there off group, you still have signet of undeath.
Yes, some other healers can do more than scourge at this point, but healscourge is still viable, especially with a pairing of quick herold. Nothing changes there.
Him calling it dogshit tier makes me question if he really means it or if he is just using hyperbole. He should know why heal scorge is still really strong.
The transfusion port was just fun sugar on top.
No , the hard carry is why i loved scourge to begin with and im only main necro i dont play any other class so its shit update
"The only thing that will die with this change is the abillity to hard carry half a squad of incompetent players."
Which is literally the only reason you bring Hscg in the first place. Why would I bring a mediocre healer, when Druid and Heal Chrono exist?
@@snowdropfox5754 because you don't even need the heal power of a druid or another strong healer. The only thing in the game that can be considered a heal check is Cerus CM/LM. At that point it is just about preferred play style. Removing the port will make it less fun though.
@@jozzetv That is nowhere near the reality for most players.
@@snowdropfox5754 Hard carry is also a great way to train people up to then do it on their own - it is super useful in training groups
Ripperoni heal scourge
RIP WVW
Scourge is really sad - it's the same as when Anet proposed changing how Gyros worked on Scrapper, and they went back on that change I hope this will be the same, Nerf scourge - fine - but don't kill it, please!
Also it was a HS really helped in training groups while people were learning the mechanics - that doesn't justify it being broken, but I think a balance could be found.
lol sap was better targetted…that aoe better be large cuz good luck dropping that aoe on allies who move around a lot
Will you not just run Ritualist for SA brand now? sure you lose toughness but your concentration and expertise are the same
Incoming IBS4
Title is misleading. Heal Scourge isn't dead, it just won't be able to carry bad teams on it's back anymore. And Celestial is just reverting to what it was when it was introduced to the game. It worked just fine back then so it'll be the same now too. You forget that the game originally released without Expertise or Concentration as stats.
Scourge is dead. Every other healer can do things better than it, boons, heal output, weapon options. If the whole NECROMANCER identity of the class of being able to manipulate death states unlike every other healer, WTF is the point in playing it over the rest?
Whole point of the pull was to compensate for the lack of other tools that save people, so at least if they get CCed in stuff and go down because you didn't give stability as a healer, you can save them. Now just bring a chrono, it is factually better in all ways.
I think the reason he is saying it's dead is because there is no longer any reason that anyone would pick heal scourge over any other support now, and as for celestial, yea a lot of things were different back then including power creep, dps out has more then doubled from what it was in base and Heart of Thorns so taking a set back to base is just removing it from use because it can't keep up. back then when people were using the original celestial people were also using soldier stats as the main power dps stats, so many good stat combinations came out that celestial needed to be buffed to be viable. All that being said i dont care about celestial and hated using it, i felt weak at everything instead of being at least decent at anything.
Only started playing cele roam harb in wvw now it's going - _-
I've played several MMOs over the years and the one thing I've learned is when a dev tries to make a class standout with a unique mechanic they invariably water it down to the point that "defining" mechanic becomes meaningless. Players say they want unique mechanics, but really they want parity. "My class wasn't brought because it lacks 'x' that 'y' class has." How many times do we hear that complaint again and again?
Is celestial still best for wvw zerg shout reaper?
The Hscg destruction is probably one of the best changes overall. All these times when a player complains about other players being useless and too stupid to dodge obvious mechanics, you have to realize that these players are a product of Hscg existing. Boneskinner without a Hscg is "hard", because Hscg existed. You don't learn by circumventing every mechanic, you learn by feeding to it.
thats so far from reality it hurts. please delete the comment so you wont be classified as mental disabled
Vallun on suicide watch.
laughs in dirty steam f2p core build
You're absolutely trolling with the 'heal scourge is dead' meme. The change doesn't stop it healing, just stops the teleport that makes so much content faceroll ridiculously easy.
its stop scourge from being picked since there is no point to use something that performs LESS than other supports
@@MikePhantom performance is over rated. Fun playstyle is the true meta.
@@MikePhantom will it be worse than heal Tempest? I kinda doubt it.
Scourge still has the same rezz power, and people can use f4 for the heal now instead of saving it all fight long in case someone downs, that's probably a buff to the average player xD
There’s no need to play healing scourge anymore
Nah heal scourge is dead, this is was the ONLY reason to bring a heal scourge.
They did not add a hole to the role, they obliterated it out of existence
Hi twitch chat
YES. I’m good with this.
I just switched to a condi Scourge dps build? should I be crying in the corner right now or...
This change is irrelevant to condi scourge
Condi DPS Scourge is unchanged... unfortunately
the only people who complained about celestial are the sweaty try hards that are just mad they cant blast them with their damage-obsessed glass cannon builds and have something that actually counters them and forces them to think or build something different.
@@honnorgaurd celestial builds are so oppressive and brain dead, it kills build diversity because why run any other stats when cele does it the best. “Forces them to think or build something different” bro cele is literally face roll builds and to fight cele you end up running cele. Yeah I love 7 minute cele v cele fights so engaging.
@@QuaggyCharrpermastealth and porting, rocket booting etc is way more fun if you cant 1shot somebody
@@QuaggyCharroh yea and poping the same 2 skills and deleting someone with your glass cannon build or condi spam as you cloak spam away or kite around all day isnt brain dead too... cele doesnt do it "the best", it has always been the "jack of all trades, master of none". thats what made it so nice and appealing for those that dont want to spend half their college years grinding away at 5 different sets or armor and just have one versital set that doesnt do the best at any one thing but is good enough to get the job done if played right. i know this is a crazy wild concept but if youre running into a standoff, you can always just LEAVE. crazy i know but youre always going to have someone out there that your build isnt going to be most optimal against. just like cele isnt going to always be the most optimal for certain things. again, youre just mad you cant nuke them but the thing is, they may not be something you cant insta kill but they also arent going to be something that will insta kill you either unless youre rocking full glass cannon zerg. at which point obviously youre going to hate cele and be biased because it directly counters your boring generic "all or nothing" style.
@@honnorgaurd cele is too strong it’s the reason it’s in every Zerg build, plagues every roaming build because it’s extremely forgiving meaning there is low risk high reward. It is especially strong on certain builds (willbender, deadeye, harb, catalyst) that they completely shut out other build diversity or counter play.
@@QuaggyCharr wrong, wrong, and wrong again. when youre in a zerg with 20 plus people, people having cele or not isnt going to change how strong that death ball is going to be. when you have that many people poping off boons, EVERYONE is going to be unchanged by this it wont matter at all. if youre looking for balanced gameplay then go to structured pvp its called that for a reason. wvw is fundemantally never meant to be balanced its always going to be imbalanced. thats part of the fun of it.
like it or not. you NEED stuff like cele in the game that make things forgiving because not everyone is a sweaty no life 12 hrs a day tryhard. here's the reality. most gamers suck and are casual. because most of us have lives and full time jobs. the point im making here is that if you have the game be nothing but super punishing builds where new players will just get demoralized and farmed because their only options are either glass cannon builds or no-damage walls, then modes like wvw are going to have ALOT less new blood join the ranks because all the new players are just not going to have any fun at all. builds like cele alow people to have fun experimenting with different builds and work their own playstyle without feeling shoe-horned into a on oppressive "meta" role and playstyle.
you wanting to try and gank new players is a choice. you sticking around trying to duel a cele that your build is countered against ist a choice. expecting everyone to pick between either super tanky useless damage or unforgiving glass cannon nonesense where literally every fight just turns into a "he who gets in the first shot wins" routine.... THAT is truly oppressive and is what REALLY is killing any build diversity in the game.
its because of cele that im able to have fun experimenting with literally every spec of my guardian and not feel useless while also not having to waste my time collecting 4 different gear sets taking up half my inventory. yea no thank you dude. if you hate fighting cele so much than you can do what all the rest of us do to toxic condi-cloak spamming seal clubbing thieves and just NOT ENGAGE.
say whatever you want but cele builds are not what is bullying new players that we desperately need more of in wvw. its sweaty try hards with their super meta builds and gank squads that go thirstily hunting every poor sod that tries to just cap a guard post. those new players NEED stuff like cele build so they can actually stand a reasonable fighting chance to enjoy the game while they get a feel for what works for them. even -for the sake of argument- it was imbalanced, its a necessary evil for the very reason i just gave.
Best patch preview from ANet so far
Its true that celestial builds are generaly too strong
Don't listen to the propaganda. Now it's going to be willbender and thief spam 24/7.
@@theblackspark2644they already were the strongest cele stat abusers
@@theblackspark2644 cele was bad but guess what wb as a class has and probably always will be op
@@theblackspark2644 Sounds like propaganda to me
@@theblackspark2644 just can go cele and herald runne aint loosing much, but it does make more fair for full power user to win a fight. Trailblazer is still a very op stats that nobody play now because of cele, but it is a high tank high condi dmg build
😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
Would be better if you actually gave blind reactions to the lists.
You can watch the stream vod for that!
Stop it with the parasocial bs
Celestial NEEDS to give Exp and Conc in order to work. They should have nerfed the total stats by ~10% instead.
Cele should be removed from wvw
How take: Celestial having different stats in different mode, similar to skills is a terrible idea. Imagine being relatively new and getting explain that your stats aren't the same in different mode on top of differences in skills. There must be a different way.
They should have never added those 2 stats to cele in the first place. It supercharged a set that was already strong in WvW before that. If new players get confused then they could remove the stats from PvE too but does that really matter?
When I was a new player and tried PvP, I was surprised that my throw mine did like zero damage.
After learning about the quickness and alac meta, I was surpised how the trait that gives quickness didn't work when I first tried WvW. (also didn't realize that my stealth gyro's stealth duration is cut down to the single digits)
So yea, changing modes was NEVER new player friendly and this wont be any different.
What they should do is add an icon over traits and equipment that changes properties when you switch to PvP and WvW. Like maybe recolor the red exclamation notification to yellow and put it over traits that undergo mode specific changes, then have a tutorial pop-up to tell new players what the yellow exclamation means.
take away healingpower and toughness and tune down the overall stats. what a dumb change to celestial. remove precision even.
dragon, marauder, bersi, trailbrazer,minstrel .....what variety
they themselves introduce new hybrid skills weapons builds, blabla ....
cant run full burst sb rene cant run full condi sb rene. choose a lane. let pvp stay a burstfest without toughness etc. wvw is such a niche gamemode in the grand scheme, stop fuckin guys over
38 different stat combinations.
and edgy guys like quaggy, SA, Hunt, AR, WUP, KIP, QQ, are all glasscannon gankers and runners.
all spout the same hive mind bullshit, same as youtubers...it started somewhere :buäääh celestial bad. Fine, tune it down a bit.
if a class has boons/debilitating condis, hybrid weapons, dual-use utils, heal on boon xyz how is it bad to want to get the most out of everything the class has = Celestial. You cant do a full burst, cant condioverload, so they one-tick. you do consistent damage, are a bit tankier.
What's a more engaging fight for example:
-*sorts invi* *recognizes healthbar* *closes invi* *dead* one shot by glasscannon
-sees glasscannon approach, survives burst, counters/dodges in the right moment, goes on offensive - other guy runs a mile, OOCs
- both cele lets say Harb vs Ele: Ele first burst lands, full cleanse, counterburst shroud 3 2, corrupts stability, ele cleanses, both have to think now. second weapon set ? maybe axe offhand, so he will corrupt again, fuck it ill give myself stab per aura. Nekro swaps, dagger warhorn, okay so 1 corrupt/root, reflect wont work. Ele goes on offensive..etc etc etc..
Those are the fights i like, you ENGAGE with the enemy's build and use yours to the fullest, see a little icon, "oh he runs flame expulsion", better watch for the animation when he swaps off of fire. You outplay or get outplayed.
Why are there 9 traits, 9 minor traits, tons of weapons and utils, if all your fights go: port, cc, dmg, or maybe, port, dmg , stealth, dmg, disengage, stealth, dmg
Longer fights stay in your memory, if you one shot a silver scout waiting for a veteran warg, for your next montage, its a clip, its just one more kill.
good for you, please go to SPVP, i want longer fights, engange with enemies, get bested or dominate.
you dont get any of that if you remove tankier options, if you dont level the playing field, the devs lack of understanding will be more obvious to you.
you CANT run viper vs a spec that can cleanse all conditions for the first 15 seconds of a fight (willbender)
Balance has to start with classes, not stats. Everybody can use the same stats, if im stuck on virtuoso and have to have a target for my CLASS to function, i can not engage with a permastealth thief. I cant play the game, because of mechanics, it has nothing to do with stats or skill.
Invis, Invulnerability, permadodging, permareflect are things, that should get looked at, not Concentration/expertise, those dont mean shit (they do, but hey, i want to make a point)
Cope lul