When you consider that most standard pressure 147 grain ammo delivers around 1,000-ish fps from a 4 inch barrel...this stuff is pretty slow to be a +p+ round. But then, the term "military grade" don't mean what it used too.
I agree! This was a great video and I'm glad he addressed the Hague Convention issue. When he first showed us the bullet, I immediately wondered about the hollow point issue and was glad he cleared that up.
The m1153 uses the ra9sxtc bullet, Winchester also sells it as USA9JHP3 of which i bought a 50rnd box of. Compared to the federal hi shok 147gr 9ms it has a little more kick but not bad at all. I’ve shot about 600 rounds of the m1152 loading in the Winchester sg9w box and that’s the most kick I’ve felt out of a 9mm bullet yet and it’s what I put in my handgun for hiking.
The speed of sound changes by temperature. The air pressure over density is constant. Frequency, amplitude, wavelength have no influence on the speed of sound. If we talk ideal gas and not 100 km high near vacuum or inside a pressurized car tire.
Yes, that is correct, that is why I note speed of sound at my location. However, even with variability in the speed of sound these rounds will almost certainly remain subsonic anywhere on the planet.
You are most welcome and thank you for watching. As they say, you can take the man out of the military, but you can't take the military out of the man. US Army 1986-1994. Were you in the service?
I wonder if the failure to expand is related to the short barrel velocity. I was under the impression (possibly faulty) that the 9mm +p+ was brought about to use in the uzi and hk mp5 style weapons which have a bit more barrel length to extract more from the load.
@@ESMaddock yes, but back years ago when the +p+ was designed, supressors were available, but not in the common usage they are today. The idea was a round to make the sub-guns more reliable and more effective downrange since it was"only a 9mm"
The failure to expand was because It clogged as it passed through the jacket and leather. I heard this round was designed to be subsonic so silencers could be used more effectively by special forces
One point - the Hague Convention speaks specifically of expanding bullets. This waste of lead and copper fulfilled that requirement. Better to use a controlled fracturing bullet - it doesn't expand, but it surely makes a more devastating wound than either a FMJ or a non-expanding hollow point. BTW, a +P+ round that's slower than a standard pressure round of the same weight? Ridiculous.
I have seen other "bare" gel tests where this same bullet expanded nicely. However, our test with these soft barriers more closely mimics reality. It is disappointing that the bullet failed to expand and as result, over-penetrated. When the Hague Convention made that agreement, there was no such thing as a controlled fracturing, barrier blind bullet. I wonder what such a convention would declare today. Overall, it looks like this bullet was not a good decision by the Army. They could have chosen the 147 gr. HST or as you suggest, a barrier blind CF bullet. Thanks for watching and posting. More good stuff coming up.
I agree. Poor choice. 147 grain loadings are usually the worst personal defense loads from what ive seen. I enjoyed the video as well. Thanks for doing this one.
@@TacticalJackalope it expands well for a subsonic but it doesn't fragment it also overpenetrates and produces low energy. It makes for an inefficient load. I disagree. Imo heavy subsonics should be avoided.
A bit disappointing for not expanding. Good accuracy and velocity/energy but not a good choice for EDC or home defense. If you can get the 147 Gold Dot +p I think that is a good option. I had 115 +p in my wife's 9mm for a # of years back in the day. In 2014 I switched her to 124 +p Gold Dot for a few years then switched her and my daughters who carry 9s to HST 124 standard or +P. Thank you.
I agree. It clogged very easily and failed to expand. I am looking for the 147 gr. Gold Dot and would like to give it a test. Waiting for it to come back in stock. The 124 gr. HST is an excellent choice.
@@sdkweber All the apparent mislabeling tends to confuse me brother. For instance this m1153 labeled as +p+ but only getting 900 something fps makes me wonder is some other loads that aren't labeled as +p or +p+ might actually be +p or better. The m1152 I mentioned isn't labeled as +p or +p+ on the box yet in the stats it claims a muzzle velocity of 1320 fps at the muzzle with a psi of 39,500. That indicates it is a tad above +p but not quite +p+. It's in a little gray area between the 2. It also says it is loaded to military specs 10% higher than industry standards. It has a 115 gr fmj flat tip bullet. I fired several mags through my taurus g3 and it functioned well but you can feel the increase in felt recoil and muzzle flip. I still have 200 rounds of it. My g3 is a fairly sturdy and robust gun but certainly is not on the same toughness level of a sig or a glock so after I finish off what I have left of the m1152 I will stick with standard pressure ammo just to play safe, and I'd be very weary of shooting any of it through my smaller g2c.
Ahhh, I believe Winchester is fibbing on the +p+ pressure,, I got a chronograph and do a little ammo testing ever now and then my self, and I’ve got more speeds out of standered pressure 147gr, from a couple of my 4 inch barrel guns, and the regular +p ammo I’ve tested I get around 1100fps, and with a couple of my 5inch barrel guns they get around the 1150fps range, give or take a few feet per second
That is interesting. This was tested using a full-sized pistol (in fact very similar to the one adopted by the military) and I agree, this does not seem like +P+. In addition, this box of ammo is considered reference ammo for the M1153 and not sub-par surplus. Thanks for watching!
When you consider that most standard pressure 147 grain ammo delivers around 1,000-ish fps from a 4 inch barrel...this stuff is pretty slow to be a +p+ round.
But then, the term "military grade" don't mean what it used too.
I was thinking the same thing. I am not sure why it is listed as +P+
Exactly… The underwood 147 +p+ was 1175
Super informative! Learned several new things today. Thank you.
You are welcome and thank you for watching.
I agree! This was a great video and I'm glad he addressed the Hague Convention issue. When he first showed us the bullet, I immediately wondered about the hollow point issue and was glad he cleared that up.
@@aaronneumeyer5572 Hello Aaron. Good to see you again. Thanks for watching!
The m1153 uses the ra9sxtc bullet, Winchester also sells it as USA9JHP3 of which i bought a 50rnd box of. Compared to the federal hi shok 147gr 9ms it has a little more kick but not bad at all. I’ve shot about 600 rounds of the m1152 loading in the Winchester sg9w box and that’s the most kick I’ve felt out of a 9mm bullet yet and it’s what I put in my handgun for hiking.
The speed of sound changes by temperature. The air pressure over density is constant. Frequency, amplitude, wavelength have no influence on the speed of sound. If we talk ideal gas and not 100 km high near vacuum or inside a pressurized car tire.
Yes, that is correct, that is why I note speed of sound at my location. However, even with variability in the speed of sound these rounds will almost certainly remain subsonic anywhere on the planet.
Thank you for your service my brother. Good review.
You are most welcome and thank you for watching. As they say, you can take the man out of the military, but you can't take the military out of the man. US Army 1986-1994. Were you in the service?
Very informative video, thanks for the time! 🙏🏼 SUBD
Great info. I just found your channel and I subscribed.
Thank you very much and welcome to our channel.
I use the 147 gr ball works great while using can
Tks man
You are welcome. And thank you for watching.
I wonder if the failure to expand is related to the short barrel velocity. I was under the impression (possibly faulty) that the 9mm +p+ was brought about to use in the uzi and hk mp5 style weapons which have a bit more barrel length to extract more from the load.
Any faster and it would be supersonic, which would defeat the purpose of using it in suppressed SMGs.
@@ESMaddock yes, but back years ago when the +p+ was designed, supressors were available, but not in the common usage they are today. The idea was a round to make the sub-guns more reliable and more effective downrange since it was"only a 9mm"
The failure to expand was because It clogged as it passed through the jacket and leather. I heard this round was designed to be subsonic so silencers could be used more effectively by special forces
One point - the Hague Convention speaks specifically of expanding bullets. This waste of lead and copper fulfilled that requirement. Better to use a controlled fracturing bullet - it doesn't expand, but it surely makes a more devastating wound than either a FMJ or a non-expanding hollow point.
BTW, a +P+ round that's slower than a standard pressure round of the same weight? Ridiculous.
I have seen other "bare" gel tests where this same bullet expanded nicely. However, our test with these soft barriers more closely mimics reality. It is disappointing that the bullet failed to expand and as result, over-penetrated. When the Hague Convention made that agreement, there was no such thing as a controlled fracturing, barrier blind bullet. I wonder what such a convention would declare today.
Overall, it looks like this bullet was not a good decision by the Army. They could have chosen the 147 gr. HST or as you suggest, a barrier blind CF bullet. Thanks for watching and posting. More good stuff coming up.
Underwood has a real 147 +p+ you should check out!
Thanks for the info.
I agree. Poor choice. 147 grain loadings are usually the worst personal defense loads from what ive seen. I enjoyed the video as well. Thanks for doing this one.
You are welcome. Thank you for watching and posting.
@@sdkweber my pleasure
The 147gr HST is a top performer.
@@TacticalJackalope it expands well for a subsonic but it doesn't fragment it also overpenetrates and produces low energy. It makes for an inefficient load. I disagree. Imo heavy subsonics should be avoided.
@@TacticalJackalope I agree, far better than this. I think the HST is quite good.
A bit disappointing for not expanding. Good accuracy and velocity/energy but not a good choice for EDC or home defense.
If you can get the 147 Gold Dot +p I think that is a good option.
I had 115 +p in my wife's 9mm for a # of years back in the day. In 2014 I switched her to 124 +p Gold Dot for a few years then switched her and my daughters who carry 9s to HST 124 standard or +P. Thank you.
I agree. It clogged very easily and failed to expand. I am looking for the 147 gr. Gold Dot and would like to give it a test. Waiting for it to come back in stock.
The 124 gr. HST is an excellent choice.
guardianminifarm,
Sounds like you are a great husband and father. ☆
@@fjb4932 Bless your heart. That is very kind. I sure desire and endeavor to be. But I have plenty of room to be better. Ps.127
🇦🇺😎👍
you want some really hot stuff try the m1152. This stuff you have here isnt no +p+
I believe it is loaded like it is to keep it subsonic. I am not sure why they labeled it +p+ though.
@@sdkweber All the apparent mislabeling tends to confuse me brother. For instance this m1153 labeled as +p+ but only getting 900 something fps makes me wonder is some other loads that aren't labeled as +p or +p+ might actually be +p or better. The m1152 I mentioned isn't labeled as +p or +p+ on the box yet in the stats it claims a muzzle velocity of 1320 fps at the muzzle with a psi of 39,500. That indicates it is a tad above +p but not quite +p+. It's in a little gray area between the 2. It also says it is loaded to military specs 10% higher than industry standards. It has a 115 gr fmj flat tip bullet. I fired several mags through my taurus g3 and it functioned well but you can feel the increase in felt recoil and muzzle flip. I still have 200 rounds of it. My g3 is a fairly sturdy and robust gun but certainly is not on the same toughness level of a sig or a glock so after I finish off what I have left of the m1152 I will stick with standard pressure ammo just to play safe, and I'd be very weary of shooting any of it through my smaller g2c.
@@kennethrisner-c8q I hear ya. Most of the 9mm rounds I shoot are "standard", in other words not +p and certainly not +p+.
Ahhh, I believe Winchester is fibbing on the +p+ pressure,, I got a chronograph and do a little ammo testing ever now and then my self, and I’ve got more speeds out of standered pressure 147gr, from a couple of my 4 inch barrel guns, and the regular +p ammo I’ve tested I get around 1100fps, and with a couple of my 5inch barrel guns they get around the 1150fps range, give or take a few feet per second
That is interesting. This was tested using a full-sized pistol (in fact very similar to the one adopted by the military) and I agree, this does not seem like +P+.
In addition, this box of ammo is considered reference ammo for the M1153 and not sub-par surplus.
Thanks for watching!